#253 How To TURN Shame Into Resilience Using Neuroscience And Compassion

We explore how shame shows up in bodies, culture, and daily language, and we map practical ways to move from spirals to resilience using a trauma‑informed, shame‑sensitive approach. We lean on neuroscience to explain loops and share tools that are simple, humane, and doable.

• differences between shame and guilt and why it matters
• how social scripts and culture intensify shame and withdrawal
• the role of the default mode network and cortisol in rumination
• trauma‑informed care and the case for shame‑sensitive practice
• tools to break loops: affect labelling, self‑compassion, resilience choice, emotional distancing
• neuroplasticity and building exception memories through small risks
• why support seeking builds courage even after bad experiences
• practical ways to offer kinder interactions in service settings

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Tune in weekly to Wellbeing Wednesday with Sogand on The Universal Radio Network, 97.9 FM in Edmonton, or globally at www.theuniversalradio.com

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Transcript

Negative Self-Talk And Social Scripts

Shame, Culture, And Withdrawal

Shame Versus Guilt: Key Differences

What Trauma-Informed Really Means

From Trauma-Informed To Shame-Sensitive

Social Pressure And The “Perfect Victim”

Neuroscience Of Shame: DMN And Cortisol

Neuroplasticity And Breaking The Loop

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome to the Universal Radio Networks Podcast. This is Sogand. In today's episode, we are diving into trauma-informed care approaches to shame. So tonight we are speaking about shame, how it shows up, how we can overcome it. And you might be thinking to yourself, this is a pretty, you know, heavy topic, but the thing is, it comes up a lot around this time of year. There's a lot of people thinking about New Year's resolutions, right? January is typically the month where people are like, New Year, New Me, right? And then for whatever reason, the New Year's resolutions don't stick or they don't go as good and people experience shame. Or sometimes, you know, people are trying to get bonuses this time of year and they don't get it. Or maybe in the holiday season, they weren't able to afford gifts because things are so expensive. Or they were able to afford gifts, but they didn't receive what they wanted. So they feel like they didn't get their cup met, you know? So the topic of shame, I know it's heavy, but I think it's really important, especially for BIPOC listeners, listeners that are coming from collectivist backgrounds, listeners that are service providers, listeners that work in communication with other human beings, shame comes up a lot. So the invitation here, like I said earlier, is that hopefully you can take something from this when shame does show up, because inevitably it will at some point. If you've never experienced shame, I love that for you. But I don't think, I think you probably have. I think most of us have, and it's it's I think in emotion or some neuropsychologists and um social workers say that you know shame is an accumulation of emotions, but regardless of how it's framed, I think it's actually quite a universal experience, but it does show up differently. So yeah, we're gonna talk about how it shows up and how we can overcome it. And you know me, we're gonna be using neuroscience and psychology to cover it as well. First of all, I want to discuss the negative self-talk that typically accompanies shame. When I say negative self-talk, here I'm talking about statements that you might make like I'm unworthy or I'm unlovable when things don't go your way, like those scenarios that I was saying, you know, new year, new me falls flat, or you know, you look back on your year and you weren't able to accomplish whatever you had set out. And if you've never said these statements to yourself, I'm pretty sure that you've been around people who have. It's actually quite unfortunately common for people to self-sabotage. I see it all the time on social media, it's glorified, it's romanticized. When we use terms like bed rotting, which by the way, no shame, because I've used it too, but like think about it bed rotting, you're rotting in bed. You know, the brain takes these terms seriously because the brain is always looking for threats and it's always looking for ways to keep us safe. So when we feed ourselves negative things like bed rotting or self-sabotage commentary, like I'm unworthy or I'm unlovable, the brain goes into that, oh, there's a threat and that amygdala, which we've talked about in length before, which is that alarm system in the brain, it fires off, right? And so we have to be cognizant of how we speak to ourselves. So I know that these terms are on social media, there's memes about it. I myself have shared things, I think it's funny. I love me a Kiki as well, but it is important to recognize and also just be cognizant, right? Are you doing it all day, every day, or are you just like sharing a meme here and there, or just having a little laugh with your friends? Just things, you know, there's always room for improvement. So yeah, I'm pretty sure if you're on social media, you've come across these things. If not, if you're off the grid, maybe you've heard self-sabotage commentary from caregivers, friends, school staff, and especially for those of us who come from collectivist households or collectivist communities. You probably heard it from extended community. Speaking of community, shame actually takes hold through withdrawal. And this is because it's oriented towards moral faults and public failures. This is per the work of Lawlore AL 2025. So this is pretty recent research. And so what we're talking about here is maybe you have been shamed in a religious institution, or you were shamed in a Sunday school, or you were shamed in a congregation, you were shamed in a city hall. You might not want to go back, you might want to withdraw. Withdrawal isolation do typically come with shame. So when we talk about shame, it's important to recognize how it shows up because it's gonna show up differently for different people. When one feels shame, this is the emphasis of others' negative evaluations, and it's gonna be observed as an internal evaluation. So basically, it's you observe how others see you, how others approach you, and then you internalize it and it becomes your own identity, which is why statements like I'm worthy or sorry, I'm unworthy and I am unlovable come about. I feel like a lot of people are nodding along because I just feel like the energy here is that this is unfortunately really common. And in mental health work, we see this a lot, um, especially in things like, you know, family dinners, gatherings, public setting bullying is actually really commonplace. And I've seen a lot of memes about this too. You know, I love that we can share memes and creates a culture of understanding, but the impact that it has on our bodies is not as funny. Such encounters can have impacts on us through facial changes, and sometimes you can observe somebody's face if you're like perhaps in a Zoom meeting and somebody's getting shamed. You could see that people's faces will change, particularly the one that is being bullied. And this is by Bouchan A. 2020 research. But also these experiences can enhance your willingness to completely isolate. And as per research findings, shame is actually practiced through different cultures differently. For example, Italian populations are more expressive when it comes to shame than American populations. This is research by Georgetta and others, 2023. And my personal experience, collectivist societies typically, I see this the most when working with them. But different societies have different implications of shame. And I want you to think about if your cultural upbringing, if there's any shame that comes about within your family, within your people that you've been around, because the first step to any kind of change, whether it's change in others or changing yourself, is recognition of patterns. So we are talking about shame continuing this conversation. Did you know that the word shame descends from the Proto-Indo-European root for to cover? This is demonstrated by changes in the brows, changes in the eyes, changes in the posture, and you know, a sense of mental confusion. This is backed up by an article that I recently read on psychology today, for any of the nerds like me. It's called The Psychology of Embarrassment, Shame and Guilt. Because maybe you don't know this, because I didn't know this till I did this deep dive. But shame and guilt are two different emotions. They are not the same. I know in our culture they're like interchangeable, but they're actually not the same. So yeah, that article is by Neil Burton, and it was written in 2024, if you'd like to read it. But yeah, basically, it's important to recognize which one are you experiencing? Embrace embarrassment, shame, and guilt. We will have different segments on all tonight. We are focusing on shame, but guilt is basically just for anybody who's listening who wants just a quick comparison. Guilt is, I did something wrong today. Shame is I am wrong. Everything I do is wrong. It's more internalized. So that's really important. Also, I want to now introduce something that might be new to you. If you're in the mental health space or in the wellness space, it's probably not new, but it's called trauma-informed approach. So whenever I look at anything when it comes to mental health, I always use a trauma-informed approach. And I think it's important for folks to recognize what that is. This is also another term that really floats around social media, but particularly when it comes to shame, there is a movement through the trauma-informed approach theology. And I think it's important for us to talk about it real quick. So when we talk about trauma-informed approach, we are basically talking about the fact that everybody, everybody has gone through something. Whether they mask it, whether they don't show it, they have gone through something. And you've probably heard this, you know, on social media 2020 onwards. I feel like a lot of businesses say they're trauma-informed, and I love that. But what does it actually mean? What does it mean to be trauma-informed, right? Well, per the work of a journal article published in 2019 called Systems Measures of a Trauma Informed Approach, Systemic Review. This is an excellent, excellent article. If you are interested in trauma-informed approaches, whether it's something you want to introduce to your current workplace or just the way you navigate life, I think everybody can benefit from this. It's by a person named Robbie B. Champire and the AMJ community. So basically, there's no one single definition of what it means to be trauma-informed, which a lot of critics of this theology are like, well, if there's no one, how can we actually take it seriously? But because everybody has experienced a level of trauma, that's that's enough for us to take this seriously. It's an approach that is, quote, characterized by integrating and understanding trauma through patterns, programs, organizations, or systems that are provided to individuals and groups. As we've already spoken about, there's different ways that shame can be expressed by folks. It's then reasonable to accept that folks who've experienced shame might be accessing services, be it therapy, be it medical, be it um pharmaceutical, literally everyday interactions at a drive-thru, retail stores, you know. I feel like if service providers at any of these avenues are trained in a trauma-informed approach, then I think that we can really understand how shame can show up, but how shame can also be navigated, right? The exchange would then be more positive. For example, right before our segment today, I went to a drive-thru and the girl was very obviously new and she kept apologizing, which is shame coming up. And I said to her, Don't worry about it, I have time. And she laughed and I laughed. And when she gave me what I wanted at the drive-thru, I said to her, Good luck, you got this. And it was such a positive experience for me and for her. And I feel like maybe for the rest of her new day at this new job, she won't have that shame. This is what I mean. Now, the average person may not look at things this way, but the invitation here is that you can. You don't have to be a mental health professional like me. You don't have to be somebody who, you know, lives, breeds this. It can be just somebody that recognizes that we've all experienced a level of shame and everybody's going through something. Be it the girl, shout out to her if she ever listens to this, who's starting this new job, or somebody that you know, or if it's even yourself. And you might say to yourself at this conjuncture in this conversation, but Sogan, nobody actually knows what anyone goes through. So how can we, you know, compassionate towards that? And that would be a valid concern if you ever said that to me, but I would just reply that, you know, it's just significant enough for you to know that everybody that you come across is going through something. Everybody, every single person is, and it's actually irrelevant, unless you know, you're a nerd like me and you research stuff like this for fun. Um, it's irrelevant what people are actually going through. But if you are engaged in better mental health practices for yourself and others, then you can benefit from this. Have you ever heard that quote? And I'm about to butcher it because I don't exactly remember the words, but I feel like it's a very common quote. People don't remember what you look like, but they remember how you made them feel. Have you ever heard that? Maybe this is your first time. Sorry for butchering it, but if you Google it, the right one will come up. That quote is exactly what I feel when I'm talking about this today, right? You I don't know, maybe you can look back in in your childhood and your adolescence where there are times, or even in your adulthood, where people just stood up for you or you were having a really bad day and somebody just smiled at you or did something just like an act of kindness that was out of nowhere, and you don't really remember what they look like. You definitely probably don't remember their name, maybe don't even know their name. They were a complete stranger, but the way they made you feel is something that stays with you. That is what I want you to take from this conversation today as we move, you know, through the neuroscience and then going to the tools of how you can start overcoming the neuropathways that shame has created, right? A recognizing that everybody's gone through some kind of trauma, therefore everybody's experienced some level of shame. And B, if then this is a universal experience, can we be a little bit kinder to ourselves and to others, recognizing how shame is being expressed within? Maybe it's different to others, and maybe others will express it differently, but regardless, it's a universal experience. And I feel like if you're kinder to yourself and you show more compassionate to yourself, there's a domino effect, and we'll get to that later. But yeah, people hold on to these things. It's important to be trauma-informed when addressing shame because you know it's that recognition that we are all experiencing this, and maybe just assuming that everybody is going through something, regardless of whether you can pick up on it, and that we don't want to, you know, continue the spiral. So let's just be a little bit kinder to them and to ourselves. I think that's really important. So yeah, I hope that so far this is relatable to you, and I hope that so far this is something that you, you know, you can like chew on. But yeah, there is exciting research now in this, like I said earlier, in this uh trauma-informed approach that is now being extended to shame sensitivity. This is brand new research, this is new to me, so it's definitely new to you. And you know, I totally agree with this because thus far we have talked about the importance of a trauma-informed approach. However, there is now a movement within people who are proponents of trauma-informed approach, such as myself, that we need to talk more about shame. And I totally agree. For those interested in this movement, I suggest this new article by Dolzell Gibson called Beyond the Trauma-Informed Approach, Same Sensitive Approach. And I just feel like this is really necessary, especially at this time where it's really important for us to recognize, especially in the world of social media, in the world of news, and the new in the world of headlights, and you know, all of these things, it's really important to recognize that shame is really all around us, whether we know it or not. Have you ever noticed, if you are online, like me, some of us chronically online, have you ever noticed that there is this, you know, push for the perfect victim or a linear way that folks should experience post-traumatic growth. You've probably heard post-traumatic stress. Post-traumatic growth is how you overcome the stuff that you've gone through. I see in social media, maybe this is just my algorithm, but I see that there's this push of like, you gotta move on, you gotta let it go, you gotta cut them out. Like it's this like really cutthroat approach of how everybody should express this. This is also arguably in real life as well. People aren't allowed to really express themselves in the way they need to, heal in the way they need to, and what does that do? It continues the shame spiral. And in my opinion, this further stigmatizes that too. And I think, you know, the majority of us who've experienced this kind of traumatic situation in one way or another have also then experienced some kind of shame. And then not being able to express it because there's a push for only one acceptable way of expressing doesn't help. It just keeps you in this spiral. And then it's worsened by pressures, you know, of you know, trauma survivors being pressured to have one specific path to overcome their grief. And, you know, it's really important then if you're experiencing something and you feel like that shame is externally being expressed. So for example, some people are really open on social media about what they go through and there's a lot of shame there, right? People are like, oh, you should get over it. You're just being too sensitive, those kind of things. But whether you're that kind of a person or you're the kind of person that doesn't express internally, you know, what you're going through. At least start validating your experience, even if others aren't validating it. That's really important. The concept of validation is actually also backed up by neuroscience. We'll get into that in a bit. But yeah, let's stop, you know, forcing people to fit into a specific box of expression when it comes to trauma and growth, right? Because again, what does it do? It furthers that shame spiral. And what we're trying to do here is understand where the shame comes from and kind of put a pause to it. So the article I referenced a few moments ago actually goes as far as to suggest that shame is a key emotion after the effect of trauma, making this a common experience, right? One that we have to keep talking about. So thank you for staying with us and thank you for being here as we have this important conversation. I appreciate you. All right. So far, we have spoken to the social implications of shame. Now I want to take this one step further and cover the neuroscience pertaining to the experience of shame. What actually happens internally when we go through shame spirals? We have mentioned the external cues, how shame shows up in our daily conversations, can be a barrier to accessing or accepting support. But what's it actually doing to our brains? Well, per the work of Dr. Tracy Marks and If you're not familiar with Dr. Tracy Marks, I think you should be. She has little 10-15 minute videos on YouTube and she breaks down things like shame, self-sabotage, guilt, all of these things from a psychiatric perspective, but she does it in a way that the average person who's not a psychiatrist, like you and me probably, can relate. So Dr. Tracy Mark says that shame activates the default mode network. This is the area of the brain that's responsible for ruminating thoughts, narratives, and experiences. It keeps us stuck in this loop because it continues to play out the scenario, play out the negative self-talk, and it leads to what we discussed earlier in the segment, which is all of those negative self-talk, and you know, it changes the way you see yourself and you see others. And if you have worked on your negative self-talk, good job. But for most people, it's actually so, so, so familiar that they don't even recognize that they're doing it. But again, if this is your first time recognizing any of these things, you're you're not behind. This is really important. The average person doesn't take the time to actually look at themselves through this introspective lens and just see how shame is showing up. So the fact that you're here listening means a lot to me. So thank you. But yeah, shame activates that default mode network and it results in spikes in stress hormones like cortisol and it shuts down the prefrontal cortex. That is responsible for judgment and decision making. And that is why the individual is able to see the situation clearly. When you are experiencing that shame spiral, you're not, it's like foggy. You know, if you're like ever trying to drive and it's foggy and you don't see anything, that's kind of what's happening when this is happening. So let me give you an example, right? Well, actually, it's an example that Dr. Marks gives, but I'm just gonna give it to you. So let's say you experienced a failure today, and you know, here's you have two options, right? You can either help the brain reach uh growth and insight and you know learn from it perspective, or you can help your brain shut down. That's in your control. That is going to be based on the level of shame that you're experiencing in the situation. So remember when I said a few seconds ago, being aware of this is the step one to change. I mean that because if you recognize what's happening and you recognize, oh, I'm I'm starting up this engine and we're gonna spiral, then you are in a prime place to pause it. Okay, so now we're gonna talk about the neuroscience of shame and what you can do about it. I've given you so much information on how shame comes out, how you can see it in yourself and see it in others, but what do we do about this information now? And I hope it's all making sense now why shame must be navigated through a trauma-informed approach with shame sensitivity. Otherwise, that negative self-talk is just gonna linger and it's going to lead to things like avoidance, procrastination, perfectionism, and quitting. Did you know that? Did you know that perhaps the reason why you couldn't quit on yourself, or the reason why you are a perfectionist, or the reason why you procrastinate on things that you really, really want to do is there might be some shame there. Shame that maybe high school bullies gave you, shame that an ex gave you, shame that extended family or community gave you, religious institutions gave you. This is a big deal. This is a really big deal. A lot of people think that maybe they're just lazy and they procrastinate on their goals, or maybe they're just they're just not equipped with the right tools, and that's not true. It could just be that you have so much shame within that it's like overriding any plan that you have for yourself, which then leads to what we talked about earlier, which is New Year's resolutions, and maybe that is a barrier to you not being able to experience your new year's resolution goals, which then leads to that shame. And then do you see how it's a spiral? I feel like people are nodding along. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so all of that was gloomy. Let's talk about the positive stuff. There's a gift that we have in our brain called neuroplasticity, and this is how we're gonna actually change things around because you know me, we're never gonna let you leave a segment with well-beings with so gand, and you know, just not on a positive note. We must always end on a positive note. So, we've talked about neuroplasticity before. Let's bring it back. Neuroplasticity is the concept that you're it's not that your brain forgets original patterns of wiring, but you can rewire it, and that is so cool to me. You know, a lot of neuroscientists say that in the past we used to think that 25-30 years of age, after that, your brain doesn't change. That's not true, that's not true. Your brain can change, and your brain definitely will change, and you know, it's really important to recognize that you're not doomed for life, right? It's important to recognize how these things are showing up for you, but knowing that there's you know, light at the end of the tunnel, which is neuroplastic, is really important. So you can build resilience, reach for help, and not suffer in silence. What often happens when people are experiencing shame is that they, like I said earlier, withdraw, isolate, and really just like go into this cocoon, which is like an echo chamber, all of these thoughts and negative self-talk and all of those narratives, and it just festers. And we don't want that, that's not gonna help your neuroplasticity. What we want is for you to acknowledge what's happening and move forward, right? So the more you're intentional about breaking this loop, the more that that's gonna help you. So I want you to give yourself a pat on the back if you're still with us listening to this podcast, because this is one intentional way of breaking this shame loop, because this is actually gonna help you, and it's giving you resources and tools to strengthen those neuropathways, which are gonna lead you towards post-traumatic growth and resilience. So your brain is actually given a chance to move out of the spiral. And this is how Dr. Tracy Marks going back to that wonderful psychiatrist suggests that we do this. Number one, affect labeling. So when a situation happens, it sucks, doesn't feel good. You didn't get the promotion you were looking for, the breakup happened, you had a really difficult conversation, you got into an accident, it wasn't your fault. Horrible things are happening, okay? Unfortunately, it sucks. We need to acknowledge that it sucks. No toxic positivity. We need to acknowledge that there's a lot of emotions here, there's a lot of overwhelm, there's a lot of frustration, there's a lot of negativity. Affect labeling means we name the emotions. A lot of people, when they go through things, they just pretend like nothing's happening or they try to overrun it by something positive. In the moment, that might make them feel better, but the brain is smart. If you've picked up on that so far, the brain and the body is smart. You know that book, The Body Keeps Score. It does, it keeps score. And so naming the emotions that are arising is really helpful because it's going to dial down the amygdala, the alarm system of your brain that we spoke about in the past in length, and it's going to tell your amygdala there's no threat. Remember, your brain is consistently scanning for threats, it wants to keep you safe, it doesn't want to be your enemy. The reason why you ruminate and think about negative things a lot is because your brain is telling you we've been here before, these people are not safe for you. You need to be safe. But sometimes your brain is just stuck in that loop because it's pattern recognition. And what we're trying to do here is create new patterns and override those patterns. So the first thing that you do is recognize what's happening, recognize that it sucks, name those emotions, and try to bring that prefrontal cortex back on. Remember, we talked about when you're in this loop, your default mode network is on. We want the prefrontal cortex to come on, so your judgment is gonna come back and your decision-making skills are gonna come back. For next, we're gonna talk about self-compassion. I hope it's abundantly clear now at this part of the segment that being awful to yourself does not help the experience of shame. Similarly, when we practice self-compassion, we allow for our brains to experience conditions of safety and growth. So, what does this look like? Well, today I was listening to a podcast by Dr. Tara Swart, who is a neuroscientist that I am clearly obsessed with, because I mentioned her, I feel like, at every single podcast that we talk about. She's just brilliant and she talks about how you know there's a lot of grief in the world, whether it's grief about yourself when you're thinking about shame or grief about social media, whatever you come across, grief in the news, grief in families, financial grief. There's so much different kinds of grief. You know, I took this course on grief and loss, and the professor said that a lot of people think about grief and loss as it pertains to like death and dying, and that is, of course, uh a very valid experience. But there's also grief and loss in losing a job, grief and loss and losing an opportunity, losing a friend, losing a pet. There's so much different kinds of grief. So Dr. Tara Swart was talking about how through her own experience of grief, she recognized that creativity is really helpful in overcoming that. And that's something that I have also been working on is just really making sure that I do some kind of creative outlet every day. And for those of you who've been with us for a while, you know that I have a lot of plants. And when my, you know, when I when they lose leaves, I color them and I paint them. That has been a creative outlet for me. And I didn't recognize this until I heard this from Tara. Dr. Tara, sorry, I'm talking about her like she's my friend. Dr. Toro swore, I would love to have her one day. Let's manifest that for turn for me to interview her. Hey, it might happen one day. But, you know, I feel like that has helped me through grief, you know, when it comes to the news. I I am an empath and I am a really collective-minded mental health professional. And so I never really connected that my grief is being helped through creativity. And the idea that I'm allowing myself to have a creative outlet every day is a compassionate way of living. And so if you're listening to this and you're thinking about, well, how can I be more compassionate to myself? Could you input an area of your life where you allow yourself to be creative? You don't have to be an artist to be creative, right? This could be just like, you know, there's there's a lot of art therapists that will say, just take a piece of paper and just like freely scribble, just scribble, and then paint the scribbles. Something so simple. The idea is not that you're gonna sell this piece of art, although if you do, God bless, you know, but that's not the point. The point is to get yourself in that flow state. So creativity can really help with self-compassion. Talking to yourself kindly can help with self-compassion, letting yourself know that, like, listen, things were out of our control today. Today sucked, bad things happened today. That, but then also moving towards self-compassion is also an act of self-compassion. Moving your body, allowing yourself to have a night routine that works for you, whether it's you limit your screen time and you pick up a book that you've been wanting to read, or you do a gratitude practice before you sleep. In the morning, instead of hopping on social media or you know, going and immediately checking your emails and your work stuff, giving yourself a few moments to just breathe and engage in deep breathing before you start the day. These are all acts of self-compassion. If you want more tools, we have spoken about this in length. It's on our Spotify. We've talked about morning routines and the importance of routines and the importance of all of these different ways, but the intention here is self-compassion. So that is part two of what Tracy Mark says that we do when we want to break this loop of shame. Part three is just the recognition that we are choosing a resilience pathway instead of choosing that shame spiral. Again, the fact that we are intentionally doing these things. This is not coincidental, right? These are not just tools that are just falling into your lap. You're actively listening to this right now. You're still with us because you're choosing to listen to something that can help you. And you should be proud of yourself for that. And you're choosing to find ways to move towards resilience, move out of this shame spiral. And so this is not a coincidence. This is not something that happened by chance. This is intentional. And we call this narrative identity shift. It reminds you that you're in control. Yes, perhaps the experience that you had was not in your control. Perhaps things did not go in your favor. Perhaps the cards that you've been dealt lately have not been favorable. But this is in your control. What you do with this is in your control. Are you gonna stay in that shame spiral? Are you gonna keep letting it loop around, or are you gonna move towards resilience? That is the question you're gonna ask yourself. I have one more tool for you on how to continue to navigate shame when it shows up. Tool that I want to give to you is emotional distancing. This is where we look at our current situation without judgment, observe the emotion, but we don't become it. This is really, really important, right? Not becoming the emotion, but observing it is really important. So I am overwhelmed, not I am one with being overwhelmed all the time. Do you see the difference? And what this does is it increases your emotional regulation and it decreases reactivity. And shame tells us to stop trying, but the strategies that we have covered are gonna tell us to keep going. And this is really important when it comes to the push, and I've pushed you definitely as listeners to not hold these negative thoughts in, talk to somebody, right? There is so much mental health support out there. Another way of emotional distancing or psychological distancing is that you talk to somebody about it. And I know a lot of people are like, but that person's not gonna fix my issues. That's not the point. Nobody can fix it, right? Unfortunately, there's some things like loss and grief and shame. We can't go back in time and you know rearrange those memories. We can't go back in time and pretend like it didn't happen. We can't bring back what's not here with us anymore. And this sucks. And it I hate that for us, but it's the reality. And so, yes, talking to a mental health professional, talking to somebody in the mental health space is not gonna bring back, of course. Let's get into it. What it will do is similar to what I'm doing right now, is it's gonna give you tools to navigate, a different perspective on how to navigate, right? Everybody, I really believe everybody has different gifts and everybody has different talents. And you know, I have lately gotten into this neuroscience. I was always a fan of psychology and cognitive science, but now I'm bringing in neuroaesthetics, like when I'm telling you that creativity helps with these things, or I'm bringing in neuroscience when I'm telling you what's going on in the brain, and that is a gift that I'm giving to you. There are some people that might bring in a social work background, pharmaceutical background, right? A medical background, a psychiatric background. The point here is that everybody has a gift and you're not alone. But shame will tell you you're alone, trauma will tell you you're alone, it'll tell you that you're the only one on this entire planet of what is it now, 8 billion people who's experiencing this. You're by yourself, you're doomed, it's never gonna get better. And that is just not helpful. It's not helpful, it's not cool because what it's doing is it's going to keep you stuck in that loop. However, if you develop this courage, and it is very courageous to reach out for help, to be like, you know what, I'm tired of going through this alone. I'm gonna ask for help. That will do so much for you, even if it's not a great experience. Like, I'll be the first to admit it. I've gone to therapists I didn't love. I have. I've gone to doctors that have been super invalidating, but the reality is every time that happens, you build resilience. So the shame is like, oh, right. I remember Sogan, you didn't have a great experience without one doctor, but it's okay, we can go to the next doctor. Shame, remember, it wants to keep you in this loop, but resilience is like, no, we can keep going. There are other doctors in the city, there are other therapists in the city, there are other tools in the city, and so that's what I want you to get into the habit of. Please don't get discouraged if you reach out for help and it's not what you want. I know it hurts, I know it's invalidating. I'll be the first to admit that. And I hate that, and there's a lot of work that we need to do in this space, for sure. But at the same time, in the same breath, there's a lot of supports out there outside of that experience. There's a lot of drop-in counseling, there's a lot of groups, there's grants that you can get for mental health supports. If you are an employee uh employed somewhere, you might have benefits. Don't let those benefits go to waste. Use them, right? Use those benefits. Look at your booklet, look at what it covers, right? There's hotlines. And now with AI and stuff, there's a lot of mental health professionals that have actually trained a lot of these AI, you know, systems. And I know there's environmental concerns, of course, and they're very important. But there's a lot of mental health professionals that have trained a lot of these AI systems for people who are uncomfortable with talking to others, for people who don't want to talk to others, but they still want support. Point is there's support out there. Please, please, please do not ignore your symptoms, do not ignore your emotions, because what we want, this the point of this entire conversation was to recognize the shame that you're experiencing and push you through that resilience and post-traumatic growth through that trauma-informed shame sensitivity approach. Okay, so I really invite you to experience that emotional distancing and psychological distancing and don't hold it in. Okay. If this resonates with you, please check out Dr. Tracy Marks on YouTube, where she has so many more videos on stuff like this the neuroscience of shame, and also more psychiatric tools. And this particular research that I just covered was from Dr. Mark's work from shame to strategy how to train your brain. To fail smarter. Notice what she did there. She didn't say that you shouldn't fail. Because in times in life there will be failure. But how do you feel smarter? Okay, so this segment was pretty intellectually intensive. Welcome to what goes on in my brain. But I hope that it was, you know, helpful for you to recognize why the concept of shame is really important when we talk about trauma-informed care. It's important to recognize that shame is a universal experience and that everybody, their mom, their dad, their cat, their dog, their goldfish, everybody has experienced a level of shame. And, you know, pretending like that's not there isn't helpful. Pretending like it's it's not a thing is not helpful. But yeah, you know, it's it's definitely something that we need to consider and stop shying away from. I said earlier in the segment that folks in BIPOC communities, folks that come from, you know, collectivist societies, they in particular might really resonate with this because, you know, reputation matters, upholding the honor of the family matters, upholding an image matters, right? And so if you go against that or somebody develops a narrative against you, that could really impact you and put you in that shame spiral. And the reality here is, you know, there's not a whole lot of control over others and how they might perceive us. There's not a whole lot of control over how others, you know, you you could do things in the best way, you know, perfectly, exactly as expected, and someone might still not like it. You know, that quote that you could be the peachest peach, and someone just might not like peaches. That's really what it is. Um, but you know, hopefully you can honor that there's a difference here, right? There is that, but then there's also how is that shame internalized and what can we do about it? So again, just recapping, it's important to affect label, right? So labeling that shame, recognizing that you know it is happening, it's taking place, really important. Recognizing which pathway you want to go through. Do you want to continue the spiral of shame or do you want to build resilience? Do you want to shift the narrative and recognize that you're actually in control? Or do you want the situation to control you? And are you going to let this define you? Are you going to let this continue to take you away from your goals and ambitions? Such as if you recognize that you didn't meet your New Year's resolutions, maybe it makes you not want to ever make one again, or make a vision board again, or manifest, or work towards another goal because this one time it didn't work out for you. Are you going to let it lead into procrastination so that you get into this space of, well, things never work out for me? I'm just going to procrastinate. I'm going to distract myself because it's not going to work out, anyways. Are you going to quit? Are you going to give up on yourself? Or are you going to build resilience? Are you going to build courage? You know, from a neuroscience perspective, every single time that you do what you really don't want to do, whether it's going out and you know, to a networking event, even though you really don't want to, because you're like, what could happen? A lot could happen. You could meet people in your field. You could come across people that could give you opportunities. You could learn something new. A lot could happen. Or if you're a content creator like me, posting that content, a lot could happen. If you're an entrepreneur taking a risk, a lot could happen. Every time you go against that shame spiral, that builds resilience, that builds courage. And what it tells your brain that is primed to keep you safe is that risks can be healthy. We can take risks and good things can come out of risks. And then you get into a habit of something we work with in narrative therapy. It's called exceptions. So then your brain gets into this habit of, oh wait, yeah, like we've done this scenario five times and it didn't work in our favor. But there was that one time that we did this and it actually worked in our favor. That exception starts building on that neuroplasticity. It starts rewiring those negative interactions, those negative impacts, those negative thoughts that you've had. And so you can choose, right? Every day you can choose, right? The cool thing about life is when it comes to yourself, there is some choice. I say some choice because some things, unfortunately, are out of our control. But there's some choice, right? Choosing to stay in shame, you're better than that. You deserve more than that. What I said earlier with those negative statements of I'm unlovable, I'm unworthy, doesn't it even feel weird to hear someone say that? Yeah, that's your body rejecting it. And so you can take it from me. You are lovable, you are worthy, you are capable. You just have to start believing that. And even if it's something that goes so far against everything you've been told about yourself, it's not too late. We can change it around. Okay. So I hope that this really resonates with you. I hope you see the value in trauma-informed care, particularly when it comes to this new movement of shame sensitivity. And I hope that this encourages you to move past those shame spirals, that isolation, that withdrawal, that you know, being in the depths of despair at all times because of things that have happened to you that you did not deserve, towards more resilience and post-traumatic growth. Thank you so much for staying with us. We hope that you enjoyed tonight's segment and are able to move through your days with more grace and less shame. We hope that you have been given the tools to identify shame spirals, recognize that you're better than whatever narrative has been fed to you or you've developed through trauma, and recognize that neuroplasticity can be on your side. Neuroplasticity can be something that continues that you know spiral and like constantly ruminating, or it could be used towards resilience. And also, we hope that you know that the more you demonstrate this kindness and this compassion towards yourself, the more you can actually also extend it to others. There's a lot of people suffering, there's a lot of people going through a lot of pain silently, and you'd be surprised how much you could do by just being kinder to yourself because it becomes easier to be kinder to others. It also becomes easier to recognize that you're going through a lot of things, but as they are. Thank you for everyone who tuned in. Stay up to date with our podcasts on our socials at the Universal Radio, and stream us wherever you get your podcasts. This is Sogan, and keep turning it up with us.