#295 Therapy Matchmaking, How to Choose The Right Therapist For You

We talk with registered psychologist Komal Kumar about how to choose a therapist when counselling is new and confusing. We break down credentials, confidentiality, and fit so you can walk into a first appointment with more clarity and less fear. 

• Differences between therapist, counsellor, registered psychologist, and psychiatrist 
• Why regulation matters for ethics, accountability, and complaints 
• What provisional psychologists are and why supervised practice can help 
• When to start therapy, including preventative mental health care 
• Common fears about stigma, weakness, and cultural privacy 
• How confidentiality works and the narrow exceptions 
• What to expect in a first session, including consent and goal setting 
• How to know therapy is working, and when it is not a good fit 
• Why the therapeutic alliance matters more than a perfect script 

Learn more about Komal Kumar by following her on Instagram @komalpsych

Tune in weekly with Gurjeet on Wellbeing Wednesdays at 6 PM on 97.9 FM or live-stream at www.theuniversalradio.com

IG: @theuniversalradio

Transcript

Welcome And Meet The Guest

SPEAKER_03 0:07

Hello everyone, my name is Grigit, and you're listening to the Universal Radio Network Podcast. Thanks for turning it up with us. Today we are learning about what to really look for in a therapist when it's your first time accessing counseling or therapy. What can you expect, who to turn to, and signs that things are going well, and maybe signs that things aren't going well, and it's time to seek out professional supports. Today, joining me, I have Gomo Kumar. We are talking about all things psychology in terms of being a psychologist. So join me for this wild ride. And if you haven't heard of her, she's a multi-talented woman, like truly brilliant. I we first met each other at a McHugh and Seiba event during a gender-based violence panel, which was an amazing event. You should check out more of Mikhu and Seva's work. They're doing phenomenal, phenomenal work in the community. And Gomo, I'll let you introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Hello, so hi everyone. I am Gomo Kumar. I am a registered psychologist here in Edmonton, Alberta. I was born and raised here in Alberta as well, and I have a few degrees. I have a Bachelor of Science degree, a Bachelor of Education, and a Masters of Counseling, and I'm currently in my doctorate program for a doctorate of psychology. In my spare time, I like to dance, I like to do pageants, I love arts and crafts and DIYing things. So yeah, that's me in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

When I'm at multi-talented, I really truly meant it. So I have a question. As someone growing up in Edmonton, were you a northsider or a southsider?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

I was a northsider.

unknown 2:05

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Okay, because I was a northsider.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Okay. I'm the only one. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

We're in the north side, can I ask?

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Oh, north east. Okay. Yeah. Like Manning area.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Like acreage out there. We were like canola, canola fields, like all around.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Oh my gosh, are you like on a farm? Like Quarry Ridge? Okay, because like my I was in Clareview and my family we moved to Quarry Ridge, but there was in the middle, there was the farmers. So is that you? Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Okay, tonight. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

We love to see you. Um, so you work as a registered psychologist. And the reason why you know we're talking today is because therapy can give you something a little bit intimidating to get into if you don't know anything about it. So it's also very overwhelming to look at therapy from an outsider perspective and be like,

Therapist vs Psychologist vs Psychiatrist

SPEAKER_03 2:55

who do I talk to? Like, what is the difference between all these people? So, can you kind of explain like the different like designation?

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, it is a little bit tricky, and I get this question all the time from everybody. Um, so there's usually a few different things that people ask about. So, therapists, counselors, psychologists, and psychiatrists, like what's the difference between all of those? So, the biggest thing is with therapists and counselors, we'll start with therapists. So, that term isn't really a regulated term. So, what that basically means is like people can provide support and resources, but anyone can kind of be a therapist. So, if you wanted to open your own clinic and be like, I'm a therapist, you can because it's not a regulated term. Counselors, um, we do have in Canada, we have a Canadian certified counselor's, but it's also not regulated. Right now, there is a process of trying to get that regulated. And so, usually someone who's a counselor might have more education, and then psychologists, they are um, so the term registered psychologist is a regulated term. So, what that means is there is a body behind them that enforces rules and regulations. If there's any issues going on, there is someone to go complain because it is important to have like certain ethics and someone to keep hold that responsibility for it. And psychologists usually have more training, like maybe masters, doctors, or then they can provide assessments and diagnoses. And psychiatrists, they are more medical doctors who um they can provide therapy, but they more so diagnose and provide medication for mental health issues. So, does that kind of help explain that a little bit better?

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Absolutely, because it can be really overwhelming because I've seen like therapy websites where they have different price ranges too. Right. Because I believe now for like a pre registered psychologist, it's 230 fuck. Yeah. And I remember when I started seeking therapy in like 2019, 2018, it was like 200 or flat. Yeah, it's been steadily increasing, which makes a difference sign to access services.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

100%.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

Um, I'm also kind of curious about like provisional psychologists or student psychologists, because I've seen that some schools that offer counseling programs either on the masterate level, masterate, masterate, master, or doctorate level. Um, they provide like therapy services at a reduced rate. So what is that like?

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Yeah, so as a provisional,

Provisional Psychologists And Lower Fees

SPEAKER_00 5:10

so that's usually when a person is becoming pursuing to have full licensure. So what that means is they have supervised practice, but they're still kind of in their learning phase. So they have to have a certain amount of hours. I believe it's 1600 hours of supervised practice, and they have to do an exam we all have to do in North America called the EEEP. It's a beast of an exam. Um, and so they're in the learning phase. So you sometimes the price can be reduced because they are still learning. Um, like when I was provisional, I definitely did not feel as confident as I do 10 years into this now. So it's you know kind of made me feel better too to have a reduced price to be like if I'm not giving a thousand percent amazing, I know everything, then I don't feel as bad if it's a lesser price. But I still have knowledge, right? I still had a lot of experience and knowledge, but just not 10 years worth at that time.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

Supervision as well, like you're being kind of like monitored by people who can kind of guide your practice and then also guide like the person as a client's journey as well to make sure like things are progressing and you know you're achieving your goal that you went into there before.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

100%. And it's and sometimes it can be nice ha being a provisional because you usually have a very senior supervisor. So I have a client coming in, it's almost getting like two people um at once. And sometimes, sometimes what I find too, and I'm I'm about to start supervising provisionals, but I'm really excited about that because I'm like sometimes with provisionals, they're not they don't have a a like a set way, so they're open to everything. They might have more creative ideas than I do, right? Like maybe I've kind of gotten set in ways that I do think, so I'm excited about the newer, broader ideas. So it's in in psychology world, you don't have a lot of opportunity to collaborate a lot of times, so that's also maybe the benefit of sometimes going with provisionals because you have two people looking at a case, making sure everything is really good.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Yeah, I you know, I never really thought about it that way. Like you're kind of getting like two brains to the price of one, which is really nice because you know affordability is a big issue with like mental health services. And one thing I kind of struggled with in my own personal journey, and something I've heard from other people, is not knowing when to go into. And a common regret I hear from people is that they wish they had started earlier, or they started, you know, when they saw things taken like a

When To Start Therapy Sooner

SPEAKER_03 7:20

downturn rather than waiting until things were really bad. Right. What would you say is like the best time to acknowledge or go and receive professional mental health support?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yeah, I think sometimes it your stigmatized mental health to come when there's like crisis, right? So, um, you know, I always like to apply it or think about it like a physical um like cancer. So, you know, people if they found out they have stage one or stage two cancer, no one's gonna be like, uh, I'll wait till stage four to go get support, right? People be like, oh no, I got stage one cancer, I gotta go get treatment now, the sooner the better, right? So mental health is pretty much exactly the same. So it's and for a person, it's like knowing when when something just feels off or like you can't figure out a solution to a problem on your own. So, like, say a person's like, I'm really down and like for this past month and I don't really know why, or I see lots of students, and you know, if they're like, I cannot get my work done, or I can't like get my assignments in on time, like these are all signs like you're struggling. Like, you know, if you're struggling, you don't have to continue struggling because a lot of times when we're involved in our own issue, we have a hard time seeing any other way out of it. So I think if a person kind of keeps ending up in the same issues or just like feeling off, like that, just go. And one thing I've noticed over the past few years, there's been almost like a culture shift where I've noticed more people coming in as preventative. Um, they're like, hey, I don't really have anything going on right now, so I just want to kind of meet you and make a connection. So if I do have things come up, then I have a counselor available. So I think that's really great too. Like some people are coming pre-issues, um, just to kind of establish that dynamic. But um, so you can come pre-issues, like you know, just finding a therapist that fits for you. I would recommend that to everybody. But if you're if you're just starting to notice like something's changed, something's off, you're not feeling like yourself, you're feeling too stressed, you can't manage manage those things, um, or you're having issues with your relationships around you, things are getting affected too much, too much drugs, alcohol use. Like, there's so many, but like when it just starts escalating things. So that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 9:21

That absolutely does make sense. It kind of sounds like the frog and like the boiling pot analogy of you know, you're in the water and it's getting progressively warmer, but it's really hard to tell when things are okay to win the point, like things are hurting you, they're right preventing you from being able to show up with your friends, your family, your work. You know, it's it's slow, it's gradual. Right. But I really like this idea of preventative because I've heard I've heard couples do this, right? They go prior to getting married, especially in South Asian upnate communities. There's a lot of big changes that come as marriage. It goes from like living on your own and having certain expectations to now being like starting a family, uh, living with another family altogether, understanding and navigating a lot of challenges, living on your own, maybe for the first time in your entire life. And I've seen couples go to couples counseling prior to these changes to kind of set themselves up for these really big light changes. And I think that's such a cool idea.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Yeah, absolutely. And when you think about even our how our kind of society works. So we know we go to a dentist for dental maintenance, we go to an optometrist for eye maintenance, we go to a doctor for physical maintenance, but for some reason, mental health is kind of thought about to be like, okay, only go if it's really in crisis. But if we could look at mental health as, you know, encompassing for all wellness, um, then it's like going as you would a just a regular dental checkup, a regular optometrist checkup, um, just to make sure are are we good? Am I balanced? And and you know, mental health, I would argue maybe could be one of the most important things that needs to be managed and balanced to have everything going well for you.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

So yeah, it can be a lot harder to recognize when you're maybe like

Stigma And Cultural Privacy Fears

SPEAKER_03 11:00

sloping towards poor mental health and noticing like an ache in your left knee that you might want to get checked out. Right, right. Yeah. What are some of the common like fears and like suspicions and stereotypes that might prevent someone from going to a therapist? I know I first went to a therapist when I was a teenager and I didn't have a really great experience. My therapist told me that because I was under 18, that my mom had to be included in on a conversation. Okay, which I found out later isn't the case. No, yeah. Like, oh yeah. Yeah, I was it was it was misinformation. Um, and this counselor really like persuaded me from not continuing to seek therapy because I felt like it was no longer a safe space for me where I could talk about my problems of my family. And so that became like a false belief I carried for a long time. Are there any common like fears that people come into your office for the first time with?

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Yeah, I'm first of all sorry that that happened to you. And yeah, that definitely is a like what they kind of describe to you. Like my understanding is more like okay, so sometimes if I do teenagers or council teenagers, um, like so the their legal requirement is if a parent wants to access the records, they can. Um, but whenever I see teenagers, I always ask the parents, like, hey, like, even though you're legally obligated, you you can do this um to make sure that your child is gonna get the best support and is able to feel safe. They know mom and dad is not prying into these things. This is the only way we're gonna get them to open up. So, can we kind of agree? Like, I'll let you know if there's anything life or death happening. Um, but other than that, can we just do our work, you know, just to so then this the teenager can feel like okay, cool, this is a a space, and my parents are not gonna be. So, yeah, that's kind of like how I operate when I work with teenagers. But I think big, big maybe common fears is um people thinking that coming to therapy makes you weak. I think um a lot of people, because they think you know, only crazy people go to therapy, right? You have to be at this extreme um level. But like, I kind of think people who come to therapy are the strongest people because I think it's really easy to suffer in silence um and just try to deal and take on all the weight of the world by yourself. But it takes a really strong and courageous person to sit down with someone else and be like, I don't know what to do. Um, so I need help, right? And usually those people end up thriving because they're willing to kind of be humble and recognize, like, I can't do this on my own, and I and I refuse to just continue suffering by myself. So I think that's the big stigma is thinking people who go um is weak, so it'll make you weak if you go.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

So another common concern I've heard is around like privacy and like safety, especially when as a like South Asian person, you want to go to a South Asian counselor because they'll understand the cultural context. They're not gonna question you on why your family operates a certain because they understand, yeah. However, that can also create kind of concern of like, is this gonna get back to my community? Right. Is that the automation gonna get leaked? Like, if I talk about something bad that's happened, is my family's reputation gonna be ruined because of it?

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Right, right. Yeah, and actually, just two points on that. So when I was for 18, I I had a Caucasian counselor for my first time. Um, she was lovely, but then when it came to the family stuff, she was like, just tell your parents you're not gonna do what they want you to do. And I was like, uh, that's like not how that really works in South Asian communities, right? But me and her, it like completely disconnected me from her, right? So, um, so in a way, in that way, it was like she's Caucasian, so she's not gonna be part of the community, but she also is not helping me in my needs. But the big thing is um with therapy, and especially too, that's why it's really I really encourage people to make sure that to check out the titles of people because especially as psychologists, it's very strict, the ethics, and we have a licensing body. Uh, the point of them is they want the trust but the public to always trust in being able to come and allow for yourself to be vulnerable and share mental health. So there's like legal requirements. So we can't share anything with anybody, the community will never know, there'll never be whispers. If there is, that person can lose their license, you know. And so most people, you know, schooling and to become a psychologist, it takes a lot of time and work. So most people are probably gonna risk that to gossip and uh you know set rumors. So there's legal and ethical protections in that way. Confidentiality, everything is confidential except a few things, is only if there's like imminent harm to yourself, to someone else, or like a child. But even in that sense, the only people who are contacted are people who can intervene. So, for example, if someone was wanting to kill themselves and felt suicidal that day, only police would be called to intervene. But it wouldn't be like, oh, let's put a broadcast out in a Facebook group of this community to let everybody you know what I mean? It wouldn't be anything like that. It's just whoever's involved.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Even in those like times where, you know, like your child's at risk of harm, someone is at risk of harming themselves or someone else, or like if a subpoena is served. Yes, even then it's not like you're allowed to go gossip to any ear tell like your aunt, like, oh my god, you know that so-and-so person, like they were thinking of suicide and I called for you.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Yes, no, never.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

Then it's only the people that need to know. Right. For the like purpose of like saving someone.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

Absolutely, yeah. And even too, and you mentioned like if anything was ever subpoenaed to like it's our jobs as psychologists always to protect our clients still. So even in that situation, we would probably only provide the needed information and be like, here's everything. It's like, what do you need? What's the purpose? And then we'll provide that. And then the client will also know, but it would that be the lawyers and judges, but it would never be like, oh now this is free information to go share with everything. So everything is pretty very um lock and key in that dynamic.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

So that is a really good feeling because sometimes are you know, like you go to a therapist to talk to someone, like a professional, about the things going on in your life, but also like it's nice to know that there is that like room you can go to and just unload everything, like the most vulnerable part, the parts that sometimes you're scared to even admit to or face yourself, and know that you can like put it there and leave it there. You don't have to carry it home, you can carry it to work the next day or school. It's a very like protective feeling.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, and just knowing that laws are there to also make it extra tight, it only will stay in that room or unless you give permission for that therapist to share. But again, normally if that ever happens, it's because somebody needs to know that information to support that person, but it's only with the permission of the client.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

It kind of feels a lot like how you know if a p like it put the power back in the person's court where like if a police officer were to do something, there's a complaint process. If a doctor were to do something not okay, there's complaint process. If a psychologist were to do something not okay, there's a process to protect you as the person receiving services.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

And so hopefully with that knowledge, you guys can feel a little bit more comfortable going into an office knowing, like, you know, I'm not just like a helpless person. Absolutely, yeah. I there's like rules and like boards in place and licensing rules and requirements.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Yeah, and also in um in the psychology world, um, so because we have ethics committees, and so if say someone violated something and it was deemed an investigation would occur, and if it was deemed that there was an unethical act, um, so on the website of the college, they will put all their results there. So then everybody and anybody looking at that psychologist will know and know the consequences and what they had to do and what exactly happened. So it doesn't become like the secret closed door things because it's really important, uh, my understanding of our profession to have everything super transparent because and

Confidentiality Rules And Complaint Options

SPEAKER_00 18:40

that everything are taken very seriously if there is any type of violations of anything.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

So and that transparency creates stress, like going into a psychologist's office and knowing this is what I can expect, this is what's put in place to protect me, like understanding all of the like, like you said, the education that my psychologist has done. Um, psychologists also put like profiles of themselves, like things like working with specializations, um, maybe extra training that they've done in different things on their like website bios or like their psychology today bio. So it's nice to go into that appointment for the first time, having some background knowledge of your therapist. For sure. What can people kind of expect from like a first appointment?

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Yeah, and you know, I think everyone kind of runs maybe their appointments a little bit different, but I think the majority and kind of like what I like to do. Um, so usually, okay, so how I kind of structure my my thing, I start with like consent and confidentiality because I know people are really nervous the first time they come in, and then I kind of ask some question prompts of their past because it helps me understand maybe some things they've gone through. Uh, because a lot of things times things in the past, even if there's like, hey, I have stress about school, something in the past could actually be driving some behaviors now. So I just do that and also to get people talking. If I ask a lot of questions, people are already nervous, right? So just kind of loosen that up a little bit for me. And then I try to set, and I think most most therapists do, try to set a goal to make sure that it's um like tangible, like you're working towards something that is not just uh you know, free flow. Like for me, it's really important that my clients know that we are working towards something and we will be monitoring that goal to make sure that it doesn't feel like they're wasting their time there, and um, and yeah, having any questions really. So, yeah, first session, getting kind of to know the client, the situation that's brought them in, and making some sort of plan about um how to how that's gonna get resolved.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Yeah, can you give like an example of what that could look like?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah, so um, so yeah, so if I have like a first client coming in, let's say they're coming in for anxiety and say they're like, hey, I'm really stressed all the time, um, or um, you know, I can't get my assignments in, or I worry like what's my future gonna look like? Am I gonna be successful? Um, then I'll ask them, okay, um, do you, you know, do you have anything that you're doing to cope? You know, sometimes people say, you know, I do meditation or things like that. And then I'm like, Do you have any though strategies for your like mind? Like, how do you manage those thoughts? I'm gonna be like, I don't have anything, then I'll be like, I'll try to collaborate a goal. I'll ask them, like, in their words, what do you think a goal would be? And they're just like, I just want to deal with this stress, and then I'll maybe modify it. Okay, do we agree? Is it okay if I write uh what it from what I'm hearing is the learning strategies to manage your stress and anxiety? And they're like, Yeah, that one works. And then I'll kind of like rate where they self-rate their anxiety at this point because then later on I can we

What A First Session Looks Like

SPEAKER_00 21:30

can compare and set some goals for that, and then yeah, then we have a plan in place and it's ready to go.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

That is really nice because it can be it can feel really daunting to go into that room for the first time. I I still remember how I felt going into therapy after you know all my misconceptions were cleared up. Going in, I had a friend there to support me to book the appointment. I just felt super like scared and uncertain because it was it was scary. I had never done this before. As an adult, I had no idea what it would turn out like. I just knew that things weren't going well. And I was at the point where I was like, I can't do it on my own anymore. I need support. I can't. And that can be a hard thing to admit, but like you shared, it can be a strength. It is a strength. Now I'm so much more capable of like capacity to handle stress is much greater. And it's over time, right? Which is another thing that people might feel some frustration term with therapy is that time concept of and this is a misconception. And it's definitely something I've fallen victim to of how do I know when I'm fixed? How do I know when I can stop this? Like with physiotherapy, I know I can stop because I don't feel the pain anymore. But with mental health, like you're always like fluctuating after stressors happen. And it feels like a very like the the goal, right? Like, I wanna go be fixed. I want to go not need this anymore. What would you say to people who come in with that kind of idea?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah, so I always tell people in my sessions, I say the goal of therapy is not to be in it forever. Like the goal is that you learn the skills and tools to handle life on your own. Like the goal is not to become dependent, be like, okay, I gotta go by therapist for everything. So I always tell people that is never the goal. Um, the goal is to give you the skills. So, because in life, we're gonna feel down some days, we're gonna feel angry some days, and that's okay. That's that's normal, that's a part of who we are. We can't get rid of emotions, like we're born with different emotions, but it's um assessing whether that's manageable, like as it's not getting too out of line. And so for me, if I have you know, I I love having clients and teaching them things, and then I know one day it's gonna end, and you know, uh like I get sad when they leave, but I'm happy when they leave because I'm like they've gotten what they needed here. But that's how I know they're successful, that they're managing their life on their own, and they they know they had the tools. I've like taught them what they need, or like sometimes if it's trauma work, like their nervous system needs to correcting. It's like if we correct that, then life is not gonna feel as heavy. So I guess you're kind of like people kind of come in normally for something is going on, right? So it's kind of handling that. But I have a lot of clients who kind of do like a one-year check-in, you know, just to be like, what after everything is done to be like, hey, like I just want to come check in. It's like the maintenance aspect again, again, like dental cleanings, right? You you kind of keep that up, but it's not that they're coming to be fixed, they're just like, I I feel good, I feel capable, and I just do a check-in because sometimes you know we have things in our head, and sometimes we just gotta get it out to someone else. It sounds different when you say it to um someone else. So, yeah, so I think it's just yeah, when you that uh it's just when you know you can kind of handle things and nothing is going too crazy up or down.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

I also know that there's a lot of like therapist options, there's a lot of different counseling clinics in Edmonton, and you can do it like privately, you can do it through your work insurance, you can do it through like the school if you want to go with the student. And earlier we talked about all the different designations and everything. How you kind of figure out whether you're a good fit with a therapist, and how would you identify when it's not a good fit?

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Yeah, so the big thing, and okay, when we were in when I go into training to become a psychologist, one of the biggest things they talked about is this term called a therapeutic alliance. So basically, what that means is your connection to the client, and that's why, like when people when I started as a provisional or like an intern, I was like, ah, like I don't know what I'm doing. And then it was just focusing on it. It was like just focus on the connection. Yeah, you don't maybe have all the skills yet, but if you can connect with person and if someone feels like you care and you're warm and inviting and you're and you're wanting to help them, that's like the most important thing. So I I think that's the yeah, the biggest factor is the connection part. So in my private practice, I usually do like a 15-minute uh phone consultation. I always tell people, I'm like, go with whoever you feel the most connected, even if it's not me, I'm not offended, but just that's how you're gonna have the most success with whoever you feel like gets you. And I guess some you know, characteristics maybe to look for someone who's warm, who's like listening to you, who is um, you know, kind of paraphrasing what you're wanting back versus like kind of having their own agenda of things. Um, and yeah, maybe to how to know when it's maybe not a good fit if you like if you don't trust them, that's not gonna, it's not gonna really go um great if you don't feel like listened or heard to from them, if you feel dismissed, if you feel like they're going on a way different track, like say you're like, I've come for anxiety, and they're like, actually, you know what, I want to try this non-anxiety therapy. It might be like, Oh, they're not listening. Um, and you know, I encourage clients, I know it's hard, I know it's hard in the dynamic. You know, sometimes it might be good to let them know like we're off track, but if it feels too scary, that would might be like, okay, it's time for for a switch.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

So kind of like really listening to yourself if you feel like you're holding back, or if you're not connecting or kind of getting what you want out of the session, maybe that's a sign to like look somewhere else.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Yeah, or if you're feeling like, what am I doing? Like I'm not like if I'm not getting anything, or and that's like like I like to be really goal-oriented because then like clients we know we all both know exactly what we're doing there. Or I've heard other like people before, they're like, I don't know, I just felt like I was just there and we were just talking in circles and we weren't going anywhere. And so then it's like you're not getting

When You Are Ready To Stop

SPEAKER_00 27:10

anything from that, so that's maybe not a good um fit because it should be purpose-driven, right? It should be you should be getting something from um each session. And like sometimes when I have like a first client, and in the first 10 minutes, if they tell me their whole life story and they're weeping, I'm like, Yes, I've done my job. They feel you know safe enough to um allow that vulnerability to happen. So if people can feel vulnerable and let everything out, the more a counselor knows, the more they can help you. But if they if you don't feel comfortable doing that, then maybe there's a disconnect. And sometimes it can just be personality, like maybe the therapist is great, it's just the personalities just don't click. Uh, just like in life, you know, sometimes you click with people, sometimes you don't. So looking for that connection.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Yeah, it is kind of nice that more and more people are going into this field because the need has steadily increased over time. And the more people that go into this field, the more likely you are to find someone you can connect with. It's not generally like one type of person. Like when you think about this stereotype of a therapist, you know, you're laying on a couch and there's like this old white guy with this behind your head. And it's like, that's not something I feel like I would connect with. I I would feel very uncomfortable. But if I can go into an office and it's like someone who like looks relaxed and feels comfortable and creates this comfortable space for me, regardless of what their gender, their background is, what their education was, it just feels good to connect with the person and be able to share, and then then have that professional education to guide you towards healthier coping mechanisms or guide you to you know open up about things that you might not feel comfortable facing alone. And I don't know, I think that's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Yeah, absolutely. And I think you know, one thing to note is in people come into therapy, you know, they're obviously a per a client is very vulnerable, right? Because you're kind of letting someone in to your deepest, darkest things. But you know, some of my clients they tell me stuff and they're like, Okay, brace for it, and like I'm like, I've heard everything, like there's nothing that really uh phases me, right? And again, our goal is to help, it's not there to judge or anything, it's just to be like, okay, tell me the information and let's figure this out together.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

So um it would be like being self-conscious in front of your OBGYN. Yeah, they see it every day. Yeah, it's okay, and also it's a job. It is a job, and you know, psychologists, therapists, counselors like they have professional practices put in place to protect themselves from what's going on in our room. So, as much as it can be this relationship based on connection, it is still a professional relationship, it is still like a therapeutic alliance versus like a peer-to-peer alliance. Absolutely, yes.

Finding Fit And The Therapeutic Alliance

SPEAKER_03 29:50

So it, I don't know. I guess some people do come into therapy thinking, like, oh, I don't want to make you sad, like I don't want to bum you out with my stories. Yeah. But it's like, no, dude, share.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Absolutely, right. I'm like, yeah, and that's like I kind of try to make that clear to people too. It's like we're not friends, like we are like my job is to support you. I can hold the space. Like, you know, in in life, it can be hard for your friends and family to hold this space because they don't know what to do with it. And then their usual default is like, well, if I was in that situation, this is what I think I do, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:18

Where let me help you fix it.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Yeah, exactly. Where therapists are gonna be like, okay, let's see where you're at and what you're capable and what's your capacity of what you need, right? Not based on anybody else, but the space is we we create the space, like that is literally our job. So it like, you know, and for me too, and this is something people, you know, you learn the skill as you kind of go along. Like, I don't go home and like cry about my sessions. It's like, okay, my work is done, and I go home and I'll go have dinner. Like, you know what I mean? I just live normally after, but like you know, I think about people and stuff for sure, but can't I like have my own boundaries to make sure that doesn't impact me, otherwise, I'd just be not well from all the stories. But I've learned just that's my job is hold the space and like the the last thing you want is your client worrying about um you. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

What would you say to someone who's on the fence about approaching therapy for the first time?

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Yeah, I would say if there's something going on, I would say, you know, give it a go because it's it's your choice and you don't have to continue, right? But like you don't know, you don't know like in life, you don't know what things are until you try. So if it's something you're debating, go go for it. Just you check it out. And if you don't like it, you don't have to um continue with it. But again, I but kind of going back to like that holistic aspect of things, it's like if a person is really caring about their health, mental health is really important. So if you just want to have a check-in person, if you care about your physical, your um, you know, your dental, your optometrist, your physio, your if you care about all those things and you keep up with that, mental health is just as important um to have that maintenance and just trying it out. And a lot of people have come to me because I work in uh post-secondary, and they just you know, they come to the service and they're like, I just wanted to check you out. They're like, I don't have anything. And then 10 sessions later, like, whoa, I had a lot of things, but I just never had that space or time to actually sit and process that. So that could be just something to try to be like, hey, what happens when I am in that space where I can't be distracted from my thoughts? Someone's directly asking me about my thoughts. What actually comes up for me? And if it feels scary on your own, you have someone to help manage that for you.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

Yeah, and I think that's only gonna get more and more important when we have so many things in the outside world that are constantly demanding our attention that it just distract like it detracts from what we give ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

100%. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Is there anything you'd like to promote?

SPEAKER_00 32:40

You know, I think the one thing you were um touching on is that you know, there's more therapists coming up. So, like when I kind of came into the field, there wasn't a lot of South Asian therapists, and you know, even maybe at that time I might have had even misconception because I was like, I don't think a lot of South Asian people are gonna come to therapy because it's too stigmatized in the culture. But you know, when I started my private practice, I was just working on anxiety, stress, and then slowly a bunch of South Asian people started coming to me because they're like, Oh, finally, somebody that looks like me, somebody who's gonna understand the story, someone I don't have to um share why my family does this or why um you know, why I have to listen to them or why we do things the way we we do, and uh that was so nice because that wasn't what my focus was in the beginning because I I didn't think it was going to kind of explode like that, but it did. So, kind of what you're saying, there is probably more people in mental health that you could probably find. We might have to a little bit digging, but you can find the person for you that will understand um the stories and kind of be there to for you not to have to share and teach them those things.

SPEAKER_03 33:42

So yeah, and if someone watched this interview and felt really connected to who you are as a practitioner, how could they reach out to you to receive services?

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Yeah, so I have my own private practice, it's called Tri-Unity Wellness, and the part of Triunity Wellness is because I think of that holistic aspect of things because it's not just mental health, it's everything. So, um, yeah, so reaching me at Triunity Wellness would be the best way to contact. If you ever wanted a consultation, I like I said, mentioned here, I like to do

Try Therapy Then Share The Podcast

SPEAKER_00 34:10

the phone consultations to make sure we're both a good fit for each other. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Como. This was amazing. I feel like I learned the things about the therapeutic alliance and going to a therapist for the first time that I haven't really thought about in a while. And I hope that this was an awesome experience for you guys as well. And if there's anybody in your life who's thinking about therapy and might feel discouraged, or if you yourself are in that position where you're wondering, I don't know how to go about this. I hope this helped. And if it didn't, I hope it's something that sticks with you for the future when you may need it. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

What I loved about today's conversation is just getting the practitioner aspect of it. My I myself am not a mental health professional, so I only have the perspective of a client, someone who has struggled with mental health and mental illness and who has sought out services for it. So that's the perspective I share. And it's really nice to get the perspective from the other side, and it's really reaffirming. So I hope that you learned lots today. And if this is something that you've been thinking about going to counseling, I hope this helps you feel more comfortable making that next step. Or if you have somebody in your life who is scared of going to counseling for the first time on their own, send them this podcast and let them know that they're not alone, that their concerns and fears are very real, and their concerns and fears that they can share with their counselor. So I hope that we all learned a lot today. Thank you for tuning it up with us. If you want to catch us live, you can on 97.9 FM and keep listening to our podcasts. They come out so often, and we have so many cool guests and so many cool topics. And you can listen to my other broadcaster friends as well. So thank you for turning it up with us.