How Pawn & RTO Under the Same roof Works

Pete interviews Ben McCauley, a 25-year veteran of Castle Rental & Pawn in Northwest Arkansas — one of only two companies in the country operating pawn and rent-to-own under the same roof. Ben started as an account manager with no experience, winging it for the first couple weeks after his predecessor left with one day's notice, and eventually worked his way up to running the Centerton location while also serving as marketing director across all six stores.

Castle's origin is unusual. Founder Ron Connolly started as a TV repairman, moved into a Curtis Mathis franchise, rode the VHS rental wave, then pivoted to rent-to-own when Curtis Mathis went bankrupt. He also opened pawn shops separately under the name 71 Pawn Center. About 15 years ago, the team realized both businesses were serving the same demographic and decided to combine them. Castle Rental & Pawn was born, with some locations exceeding 20,000 square feet — all company-owned, all debt-free for 43 years.

The combination pays off in tangible ways. When rent-to-own slows in January, pawn volume spikes. When tax season drives RTO payoffs in March, retail sales on the pawn side surge with the same money. During COVID, Arkansas classified pawnbrokers as an essential service, so Castle never shut down while traditional RTO stores faced uncertainty.

Ben also walks through three specific ways the pawn side supports collections and sales. First, pawn items can be converted into rental agreements — a customer eyeing a $200 guitar on the retail floor can take it home for $20 down on a rental instead. Second, past-due customers can pawn household items to bring their accounts current. Third, customers without a down payment can use a pawn to fund first-week payment on something they need right away, like a washer and dryer before their next paycheck.

The trade-in program was Pete's biggest takeaway from the conversation. Customers can trade in old furniture or appliances as a down payment — no cash required, no waiting for payday. Castle doesn't rent or sell the traded items; they give them to families in need in the community. It secures a new customer, cleans out the old item, and puts something useful back into the neighborhood.

On marketing, Ben keeps it simple: separate Facebook pages for rental and pawn, a combined website with links between them, and no TV or radio advertising. His philosophy is that heavy advertising is often just compensation for poor customer service. Castle competes directly against Rent-A-Center, Aaron's, and Buddy's in their markets and holds its own — not because of the biggest budget, but because of the people.

Transcript

Pete Shau 0:07

Welcome to the RTO show. I'm your host, Pete. Today we're talking Rent to Own with Ben McCauley from Castle Rentals in Arkansas. And one of the reasons why we're talking to Ben today is because he has or is part of a very unique setup where they actually have pawn and rent to own under the same roof. Ben, first off, thank you for being on the show. How are you doing today?

Ben McCauley 0:31

Thanks for having me, Pete. I'm I'm doing fantastic. I appreciate the honor of being invited.

Pete Shau 0:37

Absolutely. Now here's one of the questions that I have. Before we get into everything, what's your background in rent to own? Where did you come from? Where are you going?

Ben McCauley 0:46

Well, my the the entirety of my rent-town experience has been with this same company. I started with Castle 25 years ago. Uh a very cool company to work for. Uh, but in that that period of time, of course, I've run the gamut of positions and I've run multiple locations. Uh currently I am uh I'm running our Centerton store in Centerton, Arkansas, and I'm also filling the role of our marketing director. So wearing a couple of different hats.

Pete Shau 1:15

Now I noticed that you have six different locations, correct?

Ben McCauley 1:18

Yes, uh, we're all over Northwest Arkansas right now. We've pretty much stayed within uh this area. It's a it's a really great area. I mean, as far as uh, you know, the economy is extremely strong, very fast growing area, so so we're really in the right spot.

Pete Shau 1:34

Now you say you started 25 years ago. At what point in time did you decide this is it, rent to own is what I'm gonna do, or it was it did it take a little while? I mean, because of course you didn't start out in the regional position, right? You started out uh as everybody else did and then kind of worked your way up, correct?

Ben McCauley 1:51

Sure. I started out as an account manager. I I had no idea what I was doing. I just uh responded to an ad. I had never ex you know, no experience at all as an account manager. And uh and so unfortunately they they they uh well the at the time I came on, the account manager that I was replacing was only going to be around one more day, and he didn't have a lot of uh information for me. So I just had to wing it there for the the first couple of weeks and and get my feet. Uh, but fortunately I was able to find some good resources and and become successful at that and and just work my way up from there.

Pete Shau 2:29

True rent-to-own history, right there. I mean, I'll tell you what, anybody who's been in this business a long time has really worked their way up to be where they are. You know, when you say 25 years, man, that that's a tribute to what Castle Rental has been doing. So who technically owns Castle Rent?

Ben McCauley 2:44

Well, there are three owners. One is the original company founder, his name is Ron Connolly, uh really good guy. He started the company about 43 years ago. And then uh in recent years, uh Kent Beckloff, who used to be uh our company director, bought in, and then also Carson Hicks. So Carson uh Carson's been with the company 32 years, Kent Beckloff's been with the company 35 years. So uh we we really have an advantage there because at the helm of our company, we have over a century of uh cumulative experience in both pawn and rent to own.

Pete Shau 3:20

That's a lot of history to be able to pull from. Thank goodness. Now, when you talk about the rental side and we talk about the pawn side, because that's really what we want to get into. That's what I want to know. How when did that happen? Like, did it start from two different starting points as far as the pawn and the rental? And then like when did it was it a decided factor like they should be as one?

Ben McCauley 3:41

Well, it's kind of interesting because uh, and and hopefully Ron would forgive me if he were to listen to this podcast if I get some of the details wrong. But like I said, he started the company off many, many years ago. Uh, but he he started as a television repairman uh working at a uh a television retailer, and then he was recruited by Curtis Mathis to do the same job for them. He put in a few years at Curtis Mathis and they gave him his own store. And so he he bought in a Curtis Mathis franchise, and uh they they did mostly uh retail TVs and uh the big boxy console TVs and some stereos and then uh and movie rentals. And so uh anyway, he started off with that and then it it it became very successful. Movie rentals went crazy back in the VHS days, and that was before all the major players moved into the area, like you know, Blockbuster.

Pete Shau 4:40

Oh my goodness, VHS. I remember as a kid going into Blockbusters and and kind of hunting videos for Friday or Saturday night. That was the thing to do.

Ben McCauley 4:48

It was uh a business that was uh for a short time being carried by movie rentals, and uh and then gradually that that rent-to-owned business on TVs began to build, and then they started to introduce other products like stereos, VHS players, and and then eventually furniture and appliances. Uh but uh anyway, so he expanded, he he opened some more Curtis Mathis's, and uh during this time he also opened his first pawn shop, which was called uh 71 Pawn Center, not far away from the the original Curtis Mathis. But although his particular Curtis Mathis locations were doing really well, uh the Curtis Mathis Corporation went bankrupt. And so he at that point he could either close up shop or he could do something different, and he just decided, you know, I really like the business I'm in. I'm just gonna create my own brand. So he created Castle Rental. It was called Castle Rental Center at that point, and so he had a chain of castle rental centers and a chain of 71 pond centers that he built, and uh and so ran them independent of one another for many years, and then about 15 years ago, uh somebody had the revelation that both businesses were catering to a very similar demographic.

Pete Shau 6:07

Absolutely.

Ben McCauley 6:08

And so when when they thought thought of it in those terms, they thought, well, heck, we could combine these businesses. So so he he decided to take these two conventional businesses and combine them into a very unique business that would do both. And so we've been castle wrench pawn ever since.

Pete Shau 6:24

Now that's pretty amazing. Usually pawn and RTO are on opposite ends of the table, almost like credit and sales, and they're bickering because although you definitely have the same demographic of customer, we approach it from a very different standpoint. Now, being being a pawn shop and being an RTO center, when everything was happening these last couple of years, there was a decline in walk-in traffic, right? So we started going to different means, you know, online and a lot of social media marketing, and the walk-in traffic kind of declined. But that's in a traditional sense. Did the pawn side of your rent-to-owned business help you guys through the pandemic in a different way than normal RTO stores? Did it really help the walk-in traffic or did it not change that much at all?

Ben McCauley 7:09

Oh, yes, absolutely. Uh it helped a great deal. Uh, one was because uh in the state of Arkansas, the governor deemed uh pawnbrokers to be an essential service. So during COVID-19, none of them were shut down. And so uh they really thrived uh during uh COVID. And uh and of course, even if you set COVID-19 aside, the two businesses complement each other. You know, in the months when rent to own is declining, uh like in January, pawn is booming with uh really high pond volume. And in months like March, when rent to own maybe losing some revenue streams due to people paying off with their tax returns, retail sales are exploding on the pond side with the same tax money. So when one is down, the other one tends to be up. So they they really do complement each other well.

Pete Shau 7:59

And who would have thought that putting those two under one roof would have really paid off in the way it does? Now, when you talk about RTO and you talk about pawn, I I can envision, you know, when I first when we first sat down, and just so everybody knows, Ben and I actually met at a Versarent meeting where they're having a training convention in Georgia, in Atlanta, Georgia, and we kind of sat down and just started talking. I found this the most amazing thing. Who would have thought that Versorent would be the one to bring us together? But it just goes to show you that the RTO world is it, although it spans miles and states and different geological regions, we are a close-knit group. So thank you to Versorant for that. But I know what my vision was when I first opened it up uh in my head, and then I saw some pictures that you sent me with beautiful stores. But how much would you say for our listeners is under the square footage of RTO versus pawn shop under one roof?

Ben McCauley 8:53

Well, I I would say uh as far as the number of square feet dedicated, it depends on the location, as far as you know, if it's even Stephen, or if there's a smaller portion of our square footage devoted to one side or the other. That's just going to be location to location. But I can say that's with certainty that our locations are much larger in square footage than most other rental dealers or pond brokers. The location I'm at is only 9,000 square feet, but that's larger than some other rental dealers. But some of our locations are larger than 20,000 square feet, uh, like the one that we have in Rogers or Berryville, Arkansas. Quite large. You can imagine in that many square feet, there's quite a selection on both halves of the business.

Pete Shau 9:40

When you're talking about 20,000 square feet, that is like a shopping plaza as compared to some of our RTO stores. Now, I've heard a lot of guys say, I've heard from Rack and Buddies and a couple of other ones that like six to seven thousand square feet is probably a sweet spot. You know, you do have your bigger ones and your smaller ones, depending on what you're able to get and how much you're paying per square footage. But uh six to seven is where I heard probably you're gonna try to go for. Of course, nine, like you said, would probably be a little bit on the bigger end. Twenty is like the grandfather, right? Twenty is like, oh my god, that's a huge, huge square footage um footprint that you guys have. So I can only imagine now. I think we also talked about this when you were down here. I couldn't imagine the price at your parent per square footage on the lease on that. But then you said Arkansas has some really favorable rental rates as far as leasing and is concerned.

Ben McCauley 10:30

Yeah, that's a fact. Certainly by comparison to other areas of the state and the and even other areas of the nation, it's very, very comp uh, well, it's just very cheap. It's just cheap rent. Now, I but I can say that we don't have to pay rent because uh we own all of our buildings. And so that's that's just another thing that makes us unique. Uh, we we are a debt-free company, and so we've been debt-free for 43 years. All of the uh the buildings have been paid for in full, and so essentially the owner decides you know what what kind of rent is going to be charged for a location, and so it's it's a very advantageous arrangement for the stores.

Pete Shau 11:09

That's definitely smart thinking on the part of the owners. If you own it, there's nothing better than that. And I always uh heard and I I want to say I never saw the entire Roy Kroc movie. A friend of mine keeps on telling me I need to watch it. But essentially, you know, McDonald's was in the real estate business, not in the McDonald's uh burger business, and basically they own their locations, and that is part of why they're so successful. I would imagine that's the same thing for Castle Rentals that if you own those locations and you are debt-free, you can kind of run your business in a different way without worrying that you have to make so much or so little in in whatever time frame that you have. That's a that's a great business idea. Now, are all the employees rent-to-owned employees and pawn employees, or do you have pawn employees and rent-owned employees? Do they kind of talk? Is it like uh set up that way, or are they cross-trained and they do everything?

Ben McCauley 11:59

Yes, we train all of our employees to handle transactions on both sides of the business. And I mean it it's a lot to learn because we're talking about two totally different businesses, and each of them have a lot of facets, and they each have their own software, but we hire high aptitude people, and because we hire high aptitude people, they assimilate all that information well and and things tend to run smoothly, you know. So uh so yeah, they learn a lot. We don't have huge staff, that's another reason why everyone needs to be cross-trained, but yeah, uh, everybody knows both parts of the business.

Pete Shau 12:33

I'm gonna ask you a little bit of a 4-1-1, Ben. You guys hire with high aptitude, and that's great. Do you use any specific software or testing or modeling to review your applicants and your interviewees? Do you do any uh pretests, or do you just go off of feeling like this guy is is hungry and he wants to get it done or gal? Or is there is there a certain way that you pick out the people that you think are good for Castle Reynolds?

Ben McCauley 12:59

Well, uh, this isn't necessarily a plug for indeed.com, but uh we do use them uh to hire, and uh indeed does give you the option to send aptitude tests uh to your applicants. So we we elect to do that, and so those are scored, and that you know they'll rate uh ND will rate those and and uh let you know how well they did. And so if they're rating well, then they may merit an interview. And uh when when we interview, we're pretty systematic about the the questions we ask and uh and and really drill down to uh what the employee really wants and uh what their expectations are, and we tend to get some good people that way.

Pete Shau 13:41

So no plug for indeed.com, guys. But if you guys are hiring, Ben says it's a good idea to send out the test first. So is castle rents looking to our rentals looking to expand? And if they do expand in the future, are you going to stick with the pawn RTO model or would it be one or the other, or is it forever it's always just gonna be the pawn and RTO model together?

Ben McCauley 14:03

Well, we don't really have any reason to change, you know, it it's it's the old adage, if it's not broken, don't fix it. You know, it's it's uh it's really working for us uh aside from just the regular introduction of new technologies to improve efficiencies. Uh, I really don't think that any change is anticipated. Um, you know, there but we are constantly adding new technologies that improve our business. Uh just case in point, uh over the next week we're adding an app that's going to give our rental customers access uh you know to their accounts and the ability to shop us and and things like that, complete their order forms. So that's that's a huge advantage. And we're the only uh pawn uh broker in the area that has its own app. So that's just very convenient for our customers to be able to start a pawn from home or pay on their layaway or check their due date and things like that.

Pete Shau 14:55

Now I tell you what, Ben, seven stores keep me absolutely busy from morning till night all the time. And now you say that you have six stores, but you're also acting marketing director. Is that something that's gonna change? Because I know that that's a lot to deal with, or are do you have do you have it all down? Can you do both without without a hiccup? And if so, what is your secret?

Ben McCauley 15:16

Well, uh, you know, uh my secret, honestly, is that uh I devote quite a bit of my time training my people, and so that frees me up to do other things. Uh I have a schedule so that every associate has time with me to train in the morning. So they have one day a week that they have an hour of training with me, and so we go through a list of things they need to know, and then uh they rate themselves on their level of understanding for each item, and so it's a pretty long list of things that I want everyone to know, and so I never stop training, and so that's been a huge advantage to me. It frees me up to do marketing and other things.

Pete Shau 15:56

That's actually a really good idea. I was talking to a few people, and every so often they try to get the training in there, but dedicating an hour quite frequently is a good I think that's a good way to do it. You might have just given me uh given me something to chew on, man. I'm gonna be taking that back and really taking a look at it. Now, is is Castle Rundles part of the trip group, or are you guys part of nationwide, or or nothing at all?

Ben McCauley 16:17

Well, we're part of nationwide and ACRO, so we get a lot of support from both of those groups.

Pete Shau 16:24

Do you find that one trip versus nationwide, do you do you prefer one or the other in the sense that one does something that the other doesn't, or is that an owner decision?

Ben McCauley 16:34

Well, honestly, really that was an owner decision, but uh my experience with nationwide has all been very positive. Anytime that we've needed support for any one you know uh category or you know, category of goods, or maybe maybe we're interested in adding a new facet uh to our business. There's always someone there at nationwide that has some experience or connections that can help us uh towards that. And so, yeah, I'm uh give them give nationwide my vote any day.

Pete Shau 17:04

You know what? I'm not gonna argue with that. I know there's some great people, I know some great people at nationwide. We actually did just do an interview with Mike Tissett, who is the president of TRIB. So I would feel terrible if I didn't say that TRIB do their job too. They do it very well, but I know that nationwide is also a great group. Now, when you're looking at rent to own as a whole in Arkansas, I know sometimes down here we've been having some and all over the place, we have some issues just making sure that rent to own stays viable, uh, whether it be with the legal system or whether it be down in Washington. How is the legality work in Arkansas? Is it favorable to rent-to-own? Is it a good state to be in, or is it, you know, do you find that you you're you're fighting your way sometimes?

Ben McCauley 17:43

Well, I may be a little biased, and really my experience in rent to own has been limited to Arkansas. So I may not have a great basis for comparison to answer that question, but but from what I'm told, uh there are some huge tax advantages uh for rent to own in the state of Arkansas. And also there there aren't you know caps assessed on terms and and on the pawn side, there are no caps assessed on interest and things like that that can really uh hamper profitability for those two businesses.

Pete Shau 18:15

Now I know that you've said in the past from some of our conversations that sometimes having access to the pawn side of the business kind of helps you with your collection side as far as the RTO. How does that work? What advantages do you have having a pawn shop inside the RTO store?

Ben McCauley 18:32

Well, uh, you know, it helps us in many different ways. Uh, one is that pawn is kind of a vendor of sorts in the sense that it can provide unique rent-to-own opportunities. And what I mean by that is there are certain pawn retail items that can make great rent-to-own opportunities. So let's so let's say, for instance, let's say a customer walks into the store today, they're looking at your retail department, they find a retail guitar, it's $200, and they want to make an offer on your guitar. Maybe they offer $140. Take it or leave it, you know. And so, and so uh so that that could be a rent-to-own opportunity because we could say, well, listen, you know, we got the price, the the price on this guitar is a really great price for this model. What if we told you that you could go home with this guitar for $20?

Pete Shau 19:22

Oh, wow.

Ben McCauley 19:23

Instead of the $140 that you came prepared to offer. Well, that's going to get their attention. You know it will. And so there's there's an opportunity for us where we could convert that guitar to a rent-owned agreement, and they could make that purchase on weekly, bi-weekly, semi-monthly, monthly payments, whatever jives with their pay schedule. They get to keep more money in their pocket that they were prepared to burn today. But we secure a new rental customer and a new rev revenue stream and possibly potentially more rental business in the future.

Pete Shau 19:55

I love the flexibility.

Ben McCauley 19:56

So that that may make a lot of sense in that situation. But also, there's other ways that coin is advantageous because you know, you may have a customer that maybe they've fallen behind a little bit on their rental payments. And uh, and we say, Well, you know, have you got anything lying around the garage, you know, that's a value that you you may not have a need for, or may not have a need for for several weeks or something like that. Maybe it's a chainsaw or or a drill, or you know, who knows? But but if they bring it in upon it, we can just do the pawn. We can take that money, apply it to get their account current. So that's also an advantage. We also can use the pawn for down payments. So maybe a customer needs to get a washer and dryer set. Maybe they just moved into a new place, don't have those appliances, and maybe payday is not until next Friday, and it's Thursday of this week, and they can't go uh eight or nine days without laundry being done, you know. And so uh we say, well, have you got anything at home you'd like to to to sell or or maybe just get a loan on so that we could make a down payment on this washer and dryer, get it in your house today?

Pete Shau 21:03

I'm telling you, Ben, right now, this is absolutely blowing my mind. Being able to use a pawn to open up a rental is just amazing. I think this is the I think this is uh almost the way to go.

Ben McCauley 21:14

So, yeah, there's some there's some advantages there. And also having that that pawn and rent zone together, we're getting some cross-traffic that we may not have otherwise gotten back when we had pawn and rent zone separate. Maybe that rent zone customer would have never entered your pond business, or vice versa. But now, you know, you come in to shop for that washer and dryer, and while you're there, you may see some other retail outs. You may may decide you'll shop for a handgun or uh or your next crossbow or or drill or a piece of jewelry.

Pete Shau 21:48

I I'm gonna tell you right now, those are excellent. I mean, I never thought to use pawn in that particular way when it came to rent to own and you know, whether it be a down payment or a payment idea or a payment assistance. That's actually Amazing. Now, we did talk in our previous talks. You did say that there was another company. So there's only two companies in America that actually do pawn and RTO in the same. I'm not going to make you say their name, but do you are you aware of who they are? Are they still open? Do they are they competitors in your market?

Ben McCauley 22:19

I think they're still in business, but they're in Maine. So they couldn't be much further away from our market than they are. They're no threat to Castle right now, unless they expand nationwide.

Pete Shau 22:30

The the bigger question is chicken and the egg, who came first?

Ben McCauley 22:34

Well, as far as we know, we came first. Uh I I think that they're a little bit newer to who knows, maybe they there was someone that just happened to visit Northwest Arkansas and saw our business and took it on as a business idea. You just never know.

Pete Shau 22:50

I can only imagine, right? Now, as you're the marketing director, right? We're going to put the regional aside. We're going to do a marketing director. When you're thinking about marketing for your particular stores for the rent-to-own and the pawn, do you do it as a united front or do you approach it as this is a pawn situation, this is a rent-to-owned situation? And then, you know, you kind of just send a glance over it, but they are united, or is it always when you're marketing it, it's always we do pawn, we do rent-to-own, and this is what we have available?

Ben McCauley 23:22

Well, the the lines are slightly blurred, but we do, for the most part, market independently because uh, you know, they they're two totally different types of business, and uh and branding is a challenge, you know, it really is, because you want the customer to know what type of business you're in, and people who are new to the area, they that you know, they they may not really understand what Castle Rental and Pond does. Maybe they think, you know, that uh our business is renting pawn stuff, but that really isn't. That's a that's just a minuscule uh percentage of our transactions. I mean, the majority of our our items that are rented on home furnishings, electronics, and appliances, those are all new from the manufacturer, just like you'd see at any other rental dealer. Uh so anyway, uh when it comes to marketing, yeah, we do marketing on on Facebook, and we have separate uh Castle Rental and Castle Pawn pages on Facebook. And uh and on our website, we have our our Castle RP website. There's a link on our rental page that will link you to our pawn page. So we do keep those uh separate so as not to be too terribly confusing to our customers, and that that allows them to just go to the pawn site and maybe start a transaction there or shop our our retail inventory or remain on the rental site and shop our rental inventory.

Pete Shau 24:42

So I got a question. You're called castle rentals. Do you guys have a particular theme that you go with when you're marketing, you know, like royalty or throwing castles in there as far as, you know, this is the best, you know, from castle rents or whatever the case is, you know, using it as a theme, or is it is it just straight, you know, castle rentals as a name?

Ben McCauley 25:02

You know, I believe that the company got its name from the old saying that your home is your castle. And so our spin-off slogan has always been treating you like royalty. And I think the underlying message is that we can turn your home into a castle and you'll always get the royal treatment, you know, that sort of thing.

Pete Shau 25:20

Now I'm gonna expect to see that on a t-shirt, and I'm gonna expect to see you in a video sometime soon saying that, right, Ben? Right on, right on. So talking about marketing, are you guys big into the social media? You said you're on Facebook. Is that something that you guys are constantly in? I know there's a lot of companies now that are kind of really getting into that. They're on there every single day, or at least every other day. They have a lot of live spots as far as uh Facebook and stuff like that. Are you guys doing that same thing, or your marketing approach is a little bit different?

Ben McCauley 25:48

We're I would definitely say we have a uh a different type of marketing approach, but social media is really where the thrust of our advertising takes place. I mean, the the truth is we don't do much advertising, uh uh conventional advertising when it comes to like television ads or radio ads. So you'll seldom ever hear us on on the or the radio or see us on the TV. But the interesting thing is that you know, if you ask anyone in advertising, well, if you don't advertise, you'll die. You know, that's that's what they tell you. But the truth is that's not true. Uh and you know, sometimes a whole lot of advertising is just a a poor compensation for bad customer service.

Pete Shau 26:31

I mean, that's that is the cold hard truth. And Ben, I don't think you could have said it any better than that. That was a bit of the truth is put right in your face. I like it. I like it a lot, actually.

Ben McCauley 26:41

That's just the truth, you know. Sometimes you gotta hire the Hollywood star to be your spokesperson because you can't get your customers to tell someone else how great you are, and uh and so instead of uh throwing a whole lot of money into advertising, we just treat our customers really great. You know, we we've been in business for 43 years, and on the rental side of our business, we're competing against major national brands. You know, you can throw a stone for most of our locations and hit an errands or a rental center or a buddies, and heck, you know, you got rental center with uh what, 3,000 locations, and and Aaron's with a couple of thousand, and buddies with 300, and here we are with just a handful. And despite that, you know, we're holding our own against national brands in our areas and have for a very long time. And it's it's not because we're the biggest or we spend the most money on advertising, but because we offer excellent customer service. You know, we and of course we got a great program and we do things that other rental customer uh companies don't, but you know, that there's a four Ps of the business. It's product presentation, price, and people. And you can go to another rental dealer and you can find some a decent presentation or a price that's not all that much higher than ours, or or maybe some some nice product, but they don't have our people. Our people are the the benefit that Castle offers that no one else can.

Pete Shau 28:10

Completely agree with you, and I like the way you said that people run the business, right? We have you can have everything amazing, but without the right customer service and the right people. And those four points there are just spot on. It's nice to hear you say that because sometimes I think we do try to do our best to put forward that vision of what we are and what we have and what we look like. But if somebody walks into the front door and they don't see that same thing, that same advertisement when they walk in, it's almost a little bit of a letdown. And we don't want that. And I think I think you're spot on. I agree with that 100%. And uh I can see why Castle Runnels' been around for a long time. Who was your predecessor? Who did you take the spot from?

Ben McCauley 28:50

Uh well, uh, that depends on which spot you're you're talking about. I've I've held several different positions over the years. I I don't recall the name of the account manager that I succeeded when I first came on with the company. Uh, but uh but anyway, I'll I'll tell you, Kent Beckloff, the the previous company director and now owner, has been a huge mentor to me. Um, you know, I've learned a great deal from him, but I've also learned a lot from the the the other owners. They're just a wealth of knowledge. Uh I just appreciate their character. You know, I promise they're not listening to this podcast right now. They may never hear it. So but I I I just can't say enough good things about them. And of course, that's why I've stuck around so many uh years, just because they they deposited so much in me. And so I I've I've just had an opportunity to return some of those deposits back to the company and to the people that work with me.

Pete Shau 29:42

Awesome. Now, you know, before we get off, I have to ask, what's your craziest RTO pawn story? What's what's something that stands out that you can give me, uh you can give me a nice juicy tale on?

Ben McCauley 29:54

Well, you know, sure, there there are lots of crazy stories. I I don't know if some of those can be shared on the air, but uh you can imagine that on on our pawn side, we see a lot of very unique items. You know, people are constantly bringing in things we've never seen before. You know, we we get uh unique one-of-a-kind jewelry, we get unique, you know, weapons and and uh you know, I I I one that really stands out, there was a there was a guy that came in one time uh with a small box, and he said, He has I have something here I'd like to sell. And so what he brought out of that small box is a small wooden box, was a a small Gatlin gun that he had handcrafted to scale uh out of steel. And and so he was a retired engineer, and evidently he had handcrafted hundreds of nine caliber bullets for this thing, and uh, and so it was a fully functional miniature handheld Gatlin gun that would shoot through a coffee can.

Pete Shau 30:57

Oh my god, that's unbelievable.

Ben McCauley 30:59

So I'm you know, we just we see really unique items like that all the time. So every day you just never know what's gonna walk through the door. So anyway, I don't I don't I wouldn't say a lot, a lot of crazy stories, anyway, ones that I can talk about, but but certainly it's been a good run uh for our company and and you know, I I would say some of the things that that we're doing uh that that just make us better is uh and this is something I didn't even even tell you about with we take trade-ins. So if someone were to come let's say they wanted to lease a sectional today and uh they had a sectional at home and and maybe it wasn't in fantastic shape, but uh they we weren't prepared to make a down payment because payday was two weeks away. We could say, hey, what why don't you just trade in your old sectional as your down payment? Wait, what? So what we would do with that sectional, it's not it's not gonna get rented, it's gonna go to a needy family in our community. So if if someone trades in an old washer and dryer set that still works, we'll give that away. So all of those just go right back into the community. Um, but that's just a unique element, and it it'll enables someone to get the items they need today with a trade-in. And uh it's just good for them, it's good for the community. We secure a new customer, so it's it's a win. And and also our company is is giving back to our community all the time. You know, we do food drives and we work with other charities in the in the area uh because you know, we're we we appreciate the people around us. We're we're an Arkansas-born, uh Arkansas-run business. And so everywhere we are, we've we've been there before anybody else, and uh we know the people in our community and uh and we we try and serve them.

Pete Shau 32:45

Ben, I'm gonna tell you right now, that is an amazing idea. I'm gonna tell you right now, every so often we're talking on the show, somebody says something and it just puts everything on its ear. I really like that idea. I like the idea of trading in because you're gonna secure the customer. You're not giving them an opportunity to go back to it because you're helping them essentially in some type of way get rid of it, dispose of it, but you're putting it back onto the community for people who actually are in need. Not keeping that, but still you're kind of servicing two with one stone. That's a great, great idea for anybody listening. I'm telling you guys right now, there's always those gems out there that you get from talking to different rent-to-wn companies. And let me tell you, I've got two here: pawn and rent-to-own in one building, and then trade-ins for product. I think that's a great idea, on top of the fact of being able to use pawn items for rental items and trade-ins to, you know, help the community. I love that. I love that a lot. So, you know what, Ben, I've got to ask, because this is the Leroy Steen question of the day. Are you a sales guy or are you a credit guy?

Ben McCauley 33:50

Well, huh, that's a great question. Um, you know, I I would say by nature, I'm probably a sales guy. I really enjoy uh people, you know, I enjoy interacting with people. Uh, but you know, I cut my teeth in the rental own rent owned business uh as a account manager. And so for the first uh oh, I guess, year and a half of my career with Castle, I was running their accounts, and and I'll tell you what, as an if you want to be successful in accounts, you've really got to learn some people skills, you know.

Pete Shau 34:21

You got definitely people skills and selling the reinstatement.

Ben McCauley 34:25

You've got to to be able to endear yourself to the customer, you've got to to to learn how to be a good listener and be be compassionate, and uh and so I probably learned a lot of my people skills that contribute to uh successful sales as an account manager. So I I wouldn't say that they're independent of one another, uh, but I I I let the account managers take care of uh the accounts today, and I just focus on growth.

Pete Shau 34:51

I will tell you that I think the best salespeople started off in accounts or at least have an amazing understanding of how it works, because one does not survive without the other. And I want to say that I if anybody that's gone into sales first, I'm not taking that away from you, so don't even don't think that. But I will say that once you understand how the rental renewals work, how the accounts are being saved or not saved, or what criteria you're using to control your collections, you can do a better job servicing not only the customer, but the store itself, the company itself, when you're in sales, knowing how it runs, knowing what what really makes the world go around a rent-to-owned. And I want to say you can't have a rent-to-owned business without collections, but you can have a whole lot of sales. And it I think one goes into the other. Making sales without collections isn't a good idea. So you have to have both, but I think the transition of understanding how you're how you're selling what you're doing so that you don't overload, making sure that you set them up on the right due date, making sure that there's something uh for everybody. In other words, you know, this might not be for you, but that does that's not your only ability to get, right? So maybe it's not a 55-inch TV, maybe it's a you know a 43-inch TV, maybe it's not a 65, maybe it's a you know 55. But having the salesmanship and also knowing what the customer it you're trying to benefit the customer, I still think I'm still thinking, I really love the trade-in thing. I thought I think that's a great idea, probably an amazing idea. Never really thought about that. I'm gonna have to go to the owners and say, listen, guys, there's something going on out there that we're missing. Um Ben told me the real the real deal in Arkansas, they're taking trade-ins, man. No matter if it's pawn chop or whether it's regular, they're taking trade-ins, and I think it's a great idea. Ben, I just want to tell you, you've opened up our eyes over here at the RTO show. And hopefully everybody else out there who's listening, you guys got something from this uh from this podcast today. Uh Castle Reynolds, probably one of the most unique things that I've heard of, but I really, really I got some good takeaways from this, Ben. I'm telling you guys are probably doing it a lot better than some other ones that I know of. So I really appreciate your time, and I really want you to know we appreciate what you guys are doing out there. Representing RTO with great customer service and a niche of pawn, it doesn't get better than that. It's always something that we want to do. We always want to get that stigma of RTO changed. And this is exactly why we have this show. We open up the doors to everybody and let everybody know we're here to service the community. Such a great, great day to talk to you, Ben. I'm so glad that you know we had this opportunity. Listen, if anybody wants to ask Ben a question or anything, you guys are more than welcome to email the show at Pete at the RTO Show Podcast.com. Send me your your questions if there's anything that you have for Ben or Castle Reynolds. I will pass that along and get an answer for you. If you guys have any other questions on what's going on in a rental-owned world, please look us up on www.theartoshowpodcast.com and come see us. Ben, just so you know, we're gonna get your free shirt for being on the show today. Because I appreciate that. So we're gonna send that out your way. I'll get your information. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna get you something for that. And uh just for sharing your wisdom with us and taking out your time. Ben, I really do appreciate it. There's nothing more that I love on the show to have new and fresh ideas to share with everybody. Thanks for being a part of the show today.

Ben McCauley 38:03

Hey, thank you, Pete. I appreciate you inviting me.

Pete Shau 38:06

Thank you everybody for checking this out with us. If you can, go to social media, like us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram, get all the insights on what's going on. Visit us on www.theartshow podcast.com. Don't forget we have some shirts on there. And for everybody who doesn't know, we appreciate everything that you guys do for the show. This is Pete, your host, for The Art Kyoto Show. Let's talk right now.