RTO Legend: Bill French of O'Rourke

A chance glance at a rent-to-own storefront changed everything. We sit down with industry legend Bill French to unpack five decades of progress: from selling RCA TVs to shaping vendor programs, joining APRO’s earliest meetings, and helping O’Rourke scale into a top RTO supplier. Bill walks us through the early hurdles—manufacturers confused about ownership, banks wary of the model, and warranty battles that forced creative solutions like starting coverage at first rental. Those frictions ultimately forged a clearer playbook and a more resilient industry.

We dig into why APRO became essential: not as a lobby for favors, but as a consistent educator of lawmakers and staff who often don’t know how rent-to-own works. Bill explains why state statutes beat sweeping federal rules, and how buying groups like TRIB gave small dealers big leverage with pricing, rebates, and programs. He shares how vendor advisory committees improved conventions and how listening to dealers led O’Rourke to tailor channel-specific assortments, support, and forecasting that actually fit store realities.

Then the product story takes center stage. RTO has leapt from 19-inch black-and-white TVs to 100-inch screens, Family Hub fridges, and a surge in gaming towers and consoles that deliver standout keep rates. Bill breaks down how global supply chains changed planning, why wants can outperform needs, and how trust-based relationships—clear commitments, honest help, and mutual wins—turn vendors into partners and customers into loyal renters. If you care about the future of rent-to-own, this is a masterclass in advocacy, assortment, and the human side of growth.

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Transcript

Book Launch And Giveaway

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi, I'm Pete Chow. You may know me from the R2 Show podcast, but today, I'm doing something a little bit different. April and Wild Brands have launched a special project to bring the story of our industry to life like never before. They've asked me to sit down with some of the true legends of Red Zone, capture their stories, their impact, and their vision for the future. And now, I get to share those conversations with you right from the legends themselves. A new book. The Red Zone Revolution, a definitive history of advocacy and store access, written by April CEO Charles Fitzman, and Wildbrand CEO, Ryan Kraft. The book explores the grassroots of RTO, the advocacy that has defined it, and the future that we're building together. Here's where you come in. We're giving away free copies once the book is released. Just head over to RTORevolution.com and sign up for a chance to receive a copy in early 2026. Don't miss the chance to be among the first to hold this piece of RTO history. That's rtoorevolution.com. Check it out and become a part of RTO History. Hello and welcome to the RTO show. I'm your host, Pete Chow, and today I have the legend, the man, the walking legend, Bill French. He has been doing this twice as long as I've been here. I'm going to tell you right now, no, I have been dying to talk to Bill for a long time. We've kind of been going back and forth, had some mishaps in the beginning, and I've really been wanting to talk to him because I mean, honestly, Bill, you have been doing this for so long. You've seen so many facets of this business. I mean, literally from its starting, uh from the infantile beginnings all the way to what it is today. And I mean, you've seen all of it. Now, right now, just so that everybody's aware, Bill is the vice president of vice president of the rent to own sales at Oork. Now, I know that everybody in the RTO space probably have heard of ORORK. And if you haven't, guys, you've been under a rock. They do everything nowadays. Bill, it's so great to have you on the show. How are you doing today? I'm doing great, bud. How about you, Pete? I'm excellent. Listen, you know, every time that I see you out on the shows, every time that I see you doing something, you have more energy than I do. I don't know how you do it. I gotta tell you, I love it. I love watching it. But it seems like that comes from a passion from being in this business.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Most definitely. I think attitude is everything. You gotta have a positive attitude. Wake up every morning with a little fire in your butt, and the day will turn out to be a good day.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

And get it done, right? Well, we are on the Legends series. Now, as you guys know, we have plenty of legends that are on here. Some of them don't go half as far, some of them nowhere near as far as O'Bill has. 1972 is when he started in the industry, but he has moved his way up in so many different ways. But I wanted to go back, though. I want to go back to where you all started, how where it came from. First off, how did you find the rent-to-owned business? I mean, when you started doing it, it wasn't anywhere near as known as it is now. How did you find a rent-to-owned business and how did you get started?

Discovering Rent-To-Own In The 70s

SPEAKER_00 3:14

I was working a retail territory in South Arkansas for a company called Frank Lyon Company, and I'm driving down a street in Texas, Texas, and I see a storefront that says rent-to-own. And in the window of the store, they had vacuum cleaners and electrophonic stereos. So I went, I need to look at this. So I pull in, go in, go into the store, and I'm looking around. This guy comes out of the back and said, What can I do for you? I said, It's not what you can do for me, it's what I can do for you, buddy. That's right, that's right. He said, Well, what do you do? And I said, Well, I sell RCA TVs, and I thought he was going to have a heart attack. He said, Oh man, I need to talk to you. And I said, Well, tell me what tell me about rental. What is this? How does it work? And that's and the guy's name was Bob White. He was a brother of a guy named Bill White who started Action TV in Dallas. And um he started there in Dexter Candle in one store, and about five or six years later, he sold his company, which was called Crown Rental, for several million dollars, and the rest is history there. But that's how I got started. And it took me because when I went back to my my boss and the CFO of my company and said, Hey, I found this company that does rent to own. They'd look at me and go, What the hell is rent to own? And I said, Well, here's what he does. First thing they ask me, and in retail, you have a UCC uh agreement with the retail dealers that allows you to repossess product if they default on paying you. First thing they said, well, is if this guy rents it to somebody who owns the product. And it's I don't know. So I make notes on all these questions they have, and I go back two weeks later when I'm in that same area and talk to Bob again and say, Hey, I got a bunch of questions, buddy. You got to help me here. You got to help me help you. It took me several weeks to even get him a credit line because they didn't understand it. And the banks didn't understand it then either. They had no understanding of what rent owned was really about. But um he wound up being my largest customer out of my entire territory, which everybody else in my territory was retail. But that was the start of rent owned to me, and it's been uh an amazing ride. I mean, so Bob and Bill, I take it they were brothers? They were brothers, total opposites. Bill White, who's dead now, God rest him, was a very religious, very, very, very principled, very nice man. Conversely, Bob was very principled, but he was a wild man. He liked to drink, could party, have a big time, and they they weren't really close at all, but but he'd he'd watched what his brother was doing in Dallas and decided to try to start his own deal, and he did, and he did it very well.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

So when you're talking about so you walked in, so you were already a part of selling you know the RCA TVs. What was the main issue or or just some of the issues? I shouldn't say the main issue, but what were some of the issues that you had to overcome to get them to do this line? You said it took a couple weeks, so as they're looking at a couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

It took quite a while to get him a credit line after going through and get doing all the things you have to do to get anybody set up. But the uh major issues was okay, how does the warranty work? Well, of course, rental dealers want their warranty to work from the date of their first rental, but making a manufacturer understand that when they have no knowledge of how the industry works was was really hard at the outset to try to get them to understand how they take care of warranty.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

How long did it take to get that done? Because I know it's not you just walk in, explain it, and now somebody knows. I mean, how how difficult was that to get them to really say, okay, I understand this enough to be able to kind of work within these boundaries?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Well, initially, for the manufacturers, RCA being the manufacturer at that time, they didn't understand it at all. And and I got I talked my bosses and the owner of my company into making sure we took care of Bob White for a year from the date of the first rental. And eventually when they started seeing that volume, they began to go, you took a little while for us to really get their in the manufacturer's interest in doing rent to home. They thought it was silly, crazy. Today they don't think it's so silly.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Well, I I I don't think so. I mean, when you're talking about volume, if they became the largest volume uh purchaser that you had, I couldn't imagine them saying no, right? Well go ahead. Well, so how did you how did you end up with Old Rourke then?

Educating Manufacturers And Banks

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Well, long, long history. I wound up when I when I worked for Frank Line, I wound up managing a branch, getting hired away from them and coming to Dallas and running a company in Dallas selling RCA, but there was there was some rent home going on here, and in Houston there was a company called Rimco that was already established. Um a lot of people that have been around will remember Rimco. They were based in Houston, but um that I made a I made a trip to Houston personally and talked to them and and and got that thing going. But and at the same time, Ernie Calley was over in Wichita doing his thing. Um and there were people people beginning to build a business with with rent owned in different parts of the country. So it started gaining Ernie Ernie started in 1965 in Wich in Wichita. Um by 1972, there was the some other people were beginning to to understand the business. Then about nine when I came down here, I came down here in 1981, or eight nineteen eighty, and went at the very first April meeting. Actually, Bill White was the the guy. He called me and he said, Bill, we've got a meeting with a bunch of guys. We want to put together an association to represent our industry, and we're gonna call it APRO. Would you come to that meeting? And I said, sure. And so I went to that meeting and uh I was the only supplier of to the rent-town industry that went to that first April meeting, which was pretty interesting. Turned out all these years later I'm on the board at April and very involved and and am thankful for the industry because the rent-town industry helped me feed my kids, get them educated, gave me a life that I would have never imagined. After I went to work in here, then I ran a company for that did zenith in Houston about a year later, and then I was hired by, four years later, I was hired by Zenith to be a VP over a region. And when that really began to, and because I I was the only guy in the country that was really doing much rent-to-home, we want you to kind of help us figure this rent-to-home thing out. And we hired a guy by the name of Norm Smith, and there's an award that I have behind my desk, um, and it's the April Norm Smith Vendor of the Year Award. He was so influential in the industry that they actually named an award after him, and I I won it after I moved over here. But no, it's um it's been an interesting ride, and um one that I've been very blessed to be involved in because people don't realize how valuable this industry is to the consumer. There thousands of people in this country wouldn't have nice stuff in their homes if it weren't for rent-owned.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

What was happening in the early 1980s? You said that you start you you went to the first April meeting in 81. What was happening uh in that time frame in the early 80s, 81, that you could say that you know there was a need for an advocacy group at that time?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Well, there were several guys that they they brought into this. Jim Brown, who was a dealer in Wichita, that had worked for Ernie Talley and then now was in his own business, they invited him down. So there were folks from Texas as well as other parts of the country, but primarily Texas dealers that sat down and carved out what they wanted to do and how they wanted to do it. And Ed from APRO was the first employee of April, and he just retired recently. He was the legal counsel for APRO for years and years and years, but he basically sat down with all these dealers and they figured out how to form April as an association, and he got it started, and not too long after that they hired Bill Keys to be executive director. But it's been an interesting ride, and the the people that the people that I get a little aggravated with are the people that are in this industry that don't understand the value of APRO and don't get involved in it because if it weren't for APRO, we might not have a business, period.

Early APRO Formation And Purpose

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Well, we had the uh the uh Gonzalez situation, we had the the tax situation. I mean, there's a lot that that APRO has been able to help with. And from your perspective, what challenges were were those the type of challenges or were they other challenges that they were facing that they needed to make this advocacy? And just so you know, like it is great to hear that you came on as a vendor, correct? At that time you were you were selling to the RTO industry, but they found they found it important enough to bring you on for counsel and to be a part of it at that point in time. What were they facing that was like, hey, this is this is something that we have going on? Not only do we need to have our dealers involved, we need to get our vendors involved as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Well, even back then, in like in 1980, 81, there were some bad actors in our industry, and we need to put put together or or establish best practices um and figure out a way to protect our industry when somebody comes along and does something that's unethical and and or especially early on, a lot of people didn't really trust this industry because they didn't understand it. And over the years we've been able to build an amazing industry and that now is is uh recognized nationwide and a lot of other countries, but it it's it's been a really wonderful thing to be a part of and to watch it become what it is today from where it was in 1980. Uh but more than anything else, people the guys that were in that room wanted to figure out a way to make sure that the interests of the industry were served and that we were protected from bad actors. And and there's still I'm sure some of them out there today, but with with 47 state statutes that regulate our industry, and we really don't need a federal legislation, we don't want it, I don't think, either. Because anytime you get the federal government involved, you're gonna have problems.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

You know, we've gone back and forth on that issue. Edwin thinks exactly like you do. I think that uh getting the 47 states regulated was a win. You know, talking about the federal legislation and and how that could affect us, both good and bad, he feels the same way. He's actually said the same thing to me on this very show about, you know what, it would cost a lot of money. And at the end of the day, do you really want the government in your business? At this point in time, we're regulated very well. We do a very good job at it on the state level, and uh, we do advocate this on a federal level so that the people can understand what's going on, but we do get by very well. I mean, it's almost a$10 billion industry year after year after year, based on the way we have it regulated now. Everything that's going on in New York, notwithstanding, I hope that we come out of that unscathed. But, you know, people don't really understand the industry, and I think that's the another huge part of the advocacy side of APRO is reminding people, not only doing the legal aspect of it, but actually reminding them of what we've been through and obviously where we're going in the future and what we can what we can do together as an advocacy group. You know, how was how hard was it? Because you said that you came in with the RCA and then you started doing it with Zenith. How hard was it to get the other large vendors involved, like let's say uh Whirlpool and LG? Was that was that a struggle to get them to understand exactly what you understand today?

Why State Statutes Beat Federal Rules

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Back at in the early 80s, for a while, or late 70s, early 80s, RCA and Whirlpool had a marketing agreement, and most dealers on the retail side, if they handled RCA and were in the appliance business, they also had handled Whirlpool. And bringing Whirlpool into the fold, they've been a great supporter of the industry. Even I, even though I don't sell the product, they were and are a great supporter of the industry back in the early 80s and recognized the opportunity. So Whirlpool for a long time, Whirlpool pretty much dominated the rental side of the appliance business. And the folks like Crosley started recognizing the opportunity and became pretty good size suppliers to the industry. But the cool thing that I'm seeing today, Pete, that rental customers want the very same thing that you and I want. And we're renting to that. I'll give you a good example. I just sold one of my dealers uh hundred 100-inch televisions that were shipping this month for rent to own. Now, if you told me five years ago that I would be selling a hundred-inch television to a rental dealer, I would have told you you were nuts. But it is a reality. And and things like high-end Samsung refrigerators that that have it's called called Family Hub that has a screen on it, a computer in it. We're selling a lot of those. And I would never have imagined that we'd be able to sell that kind of product to a rent-to-home customer. But rent-to-home has become more and more and more high-end than than I ever imagined that it would. There's still a place for entry-level lead price product, because that's in some cases that's all somebody can afford. But if we can find a way to put a rental rate on it, that rental customer wants the very same thing that you and I want. They will, and the other thing that that happens, and you you know it as well as I do, the higher end the product that you put in a rental rental customer's home, the better the keep rate. Because they got some money invested in it, they're not going to let it come back. I mean, it's pretty cool, very cool, actually.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Well, you know, I'm glad that you said that because Mr. Bill French also also, because you because you have been doing, you have been a part of, not only have you been a vendor for so long, you've been a part of April as uh a couple of different things, but right now you're on the vendor advisory committee, is that correct? That is correct. I'm the vice chair. And you've been doing and and you've also been a liaison at some certain points in time. You've been a part of this almost from the get-go. How important has the vendor advisory committee been to April since its its inception? And when was it incepted?

SPEAKER_00 18:39

I think it's it's a partnership, obviously, with the dealers that are on the on the involved in April and on the board, but uh it it very definitely has been important to have folks like myself and the other guys that have that have been involved over the years with me from the vendor side. When it comes down to what is needed to make a convention successful, for instance, what are vendors April understands this, and so does the TRIB group also understands it, that there would not be these big conventions if it were not for vendor support and vendors embracing April and TRIB. And by being involved with them, little things come up like carpeting and having carpeting in in the venue versus having to rent it into. There's a lot of little things that have come into play that have helped make these conventions better by having vendors, uh, a vendor advisory committee that has ideas about we all want the same thing. We all want to sell product, we all want, we want to sell it to the dealer, we want our dealer to be successful with the product. And how we present that product is incredibly important at these shows. So having the vendor input into what goes into a show has been very important.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

So you know, you mentioned trip and and there It wasn't originally a trip. Now I know that I see you at the trib shows just as much as I see at the APRO shows because Orwork is very, very involved. And if you guys don't know, Bill French is involved in just about anything. If you have it going on, you're going to see Bill there. So what was what started that created the ability for Trib to be so important to the RTO industry? Did you play a part in that? Did the vendors play a part in that?

Bringing Whirlpool And Vendors Onboard

SPEAKER_00 20:26

I can't say that I played a part in that. Norm Smith, the guy I mentioned earlier, that worked uh well, I worked with at Zenith. Um I was in charge of a region of 17 states, but we put him in place at Zenith after I got there to manage the and develop the rental channel for Zenith. And he was very instrumental in working with, well, before Dennis Shields, um, gosh, uh drawn a blank. I can see the guy's face right now. John Blair? John Blair. He was instrumental in working with John and uh helping John understand the value of putting together vendor programs. Whirlpool also worked really well with John Blair and put together vendor programs that offered rebates and incentives for buying the product. An industry buying group, well, the biggest thing it's done is just helped the smaller dealers get deals that they would never get if it weren't for somebody like Tribb and or like April, but primarily Trib in that case. Because if you're a member, you get the same price as a little guy as the big guy gets, and puts you on a level playing field. So being a member of Trib or of good buying group, I think, is for somebody especially that's got more than a tough store or two, is essential to helping you be competitive.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Now, how advantageous has it been for O'Rourke to be a part of TRIB or nationwide?

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Most definitely advantageous by by working with them. In fact, we're getting ready to go to our fall meetings with TRIB and present our programs for next year, but it's been by them supporting us and endorsing us as a vendor, it's brought dealers to us that we might not have gotten. And we've also got we've also helped them. I've told more than one dealer, hey, if you only if you want to be a success here, you need to get involved in TRIB and you need to get involved in APRO because TRIB helps you with your buying, and APRO helps keep you in business.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

There you go. I don't think I could have said it any better than that. That is absolutely the truth. So, you know, you mentioned warranty being one of the unique things that happened uh that came out of the rent-to-owned sector. You know, hey, we we really don't want the warranty to start when it lands because most likely it hasn't gone anywhere, it hasn't done anything. When we rented is where it would be more beneficial for the warranty to start because it also helps the customer and it helps us. We don't want to give it to them three months after it already started, has a one-year warranty and they're already, they only get nine months worth of it. Is there anything else that you know that came from rent to own that made some of the vendors rework how they've done everything?

High-End Products Enter RTO

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Well, obviously the the product mix and things of that nature have changed, but as a if you're really super involved in rent to own, you need to look at that business and buy to support and be a great supplier. Here we we do everything at our work. We do retail, we do premium, we do military, we do rent to own. Our mix for rent to own is quite a bit different than it is for retail because in rent town, even though we do some high-end product, we don't do the super high-end product that we do at retail. So if you're going to be a really good supplier to rent to own, you need to understand the dealers' needs and what their customers' needs are and buy to be able to supply that on a timely basis. And we we do forecasting it. Our folks in the field as well as my we do forecasting based on the uh the channel that we work in. So there's forecasting that we do that is specifically tied to what needs to be done to support the rent-to-owned industry. And it's a little bit different than retail, a premium, or even military. So the big business required, you need you need to understand your dealers' needs and buy to supply those needs.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Absolutely. Can you tell me what a custom RTO vendor program looks like as opposed to maybe a retail program? What are some of the differences on that?

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Primary differences are on the retail side, there's a lot of a lot of programming done that um where you for instance, you may, for a retailer, you do a kitchen program that if you buy one to show and one to go in all these various SKUs that make up a kitchen, you get some extra discounts. We have to tailor that a little bit differently for rental than we do for rent-to-own because um of the needs for somebody in a for instance, rent-to-owned. I can't tell you the last time I sold a dishwasher or an over-the-range microwave, things of that nature. Those things have to be looked at harder for retail. We don't even look at it for rent-to-owned. So when we structure something, any kind of a program for rental, we look at what if it's a kitchen program, it may be a refrigerator and a range. Television, it may be a television and a sound bar or a home theater system. But you just have to kind of look at the needs of what. And we get a lot of input, but the great thing is from our customers, and they go, Bill, if you do something like this for us, it would help us and it would help your business. So there's another key period to any business, and in particular this one. You have two ears for a reason. The best people on the planet at doing business are the best listeners. If you listen, your customer will tell you what they want. And then if you can deliver it, you become a valued supplier. And uh I talk a lot, but I try to listen more than I talk.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Well, Bill, at this point in time, I mean, you have so much knowledge and so much experience. We've got to listen because you've got a lot to say. I mean, everything that you're saying on here is definitely something that I've been really interested in hearing about. What another thing that I'm interested in hearing about is 24 years ago, you decided to make a change to O'Rourke, ORORC Sales. That's about 2021. Am I right? Is that when you came on top?

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

So in 2021, what were you doing that made you decide, you know what, Oork is where I want to be. And you know, and then you climb your way all the way up to being vice president of Rent Home Sales. Can you tell us a little bit about how all that worked?

Vendor Advisory Committees’ Impact

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Well, it's interesting how the good Lord works, I'm telling you, because Zenith had been bought out, and I'd worked for them for about five years. LG had previously bought Zenith out of bankruptcy. And I was working for LG as a VP. And in their infinite wisdom, they decided they were going to take the company down from a billion-dollar company to a$100 million company and rebuild it. And in November of 2020, uh they called me in to corporate headquarters in Glenview, Illinois, and said, Bill, we are going to shut down all the branches, and we want you to stay on in your region, shut it down, service, parts, sales, close out your offices, and um budget in order. So of course that was a big shock to me, and I was not happy about that. And they said, No, don't do that. We'll give you a severance package, pay you for an extra year. They put together a whole package, but I had to stay until June 3, 2021. And as luck would have it, in February, the O'Rourks called me and said, Hey, we would like to hire you. They don't know all this stuff is going on with the Ed LG at the time because I can't tell them. So I interviewed with them, made a deal, and said, Problem is I can't go to work for you until July the 1st. And this was in February. But I said, I'm excited to come on board with you, but I can't do it until July the 1st. And they said, well, why not? And I said, well, I have a federal employment agreement with with LG that says I have to stay with them till June 30th for a major bonus as well as insurance and and pay for another year. Oh my goodness. Anyway, they agreed to that. And so I stayed, got my my thing done with LG, came on board with them July the 1st, and I was really hired by them to manage the group business. Nationwide, NATO. Back then there was Key Southwest. There were several buying groups that I dealt with all of them, and they were trying to figure out, oh, Rourke's were trying to figure out how to get into those groups. So we get that started, but about six months in, Jeff O'Rourke says, you know, you've been involved in rent own, and what do you think? And I said, Well, there's a huge opportunity there, and we're not capitalizing on it. He said, What do you think about shifting over and and you take it over and you just run the rent home business for us? And I said, Well, I would love that. Because it's I know there's an opportunity there, I know how to do it, and I know a lot of the dealers already, so it's a it's a natural fit for me. So that's what happened. And that first when I took the job managing the rent own channel, they'd done a million and a half dollars in six months. Wow. By the end of the year, we had done about six and a half million. And we have grow we've grown from I can't, I'll never tell anybody what our number is, but we have grown from that point to being the largest vendor other than Ashley Furniture in this industry, period.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Oh, I know it. I know it. Every time I go, the the L the uh the O Rourke booth seems to get bigger and bigger and bigger. You have a lot of amazing people that work for you over there.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

We're very blessed. We've assembled a really good team. Uh I'm I'm probably gonna sound a little bit uh I'm not sure how it sounds, but I believe I have the best team around me uh in the rental industry, and I also have the best management supporting what we need to do in the rental industry every day. Um I mean, they're willing to make if if we believe, if I can present a plan to them that makes sense, they've never said no in 24 years.

Buying Groups And Level Pricing

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Well, I mean, you know what you're doing, especially with the history that you have. I know Kevin, I know Felix, you guys do a great job over there. You know, you were saying something earlier, you know, the the advocacy and you know, kind of how important it is, you know, how do vendors support the Apro events? How how does it how do vendors support the legislative advocacy or industry education? How do you how do the vendors be a part of that? How does it work and Bill French be a part of that?

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Well, number one, we I've done it for years, and I've and I and I will do it again. I'm gonna tentatively probably retire at the end of next year. I'm 81 years old now, I'm gonna have to leave it sometime.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

You know what? I can't imagine a day that Bill French is not in rent to own.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Well, Bill French can't imagine it either. Because I love coming to work every day. I love dealing with my whole goal every day is to try to help anybody that I deal with or we deal with, whether it's uh one of our sales associates or a customer, be more successful. And if I can do that, then I'm the guy who wins the most. It's pretty easy and and and it's fulfilling. But now as far as APRO, a legislative conference, I think every vendor, every dealer, ought to be involved in that legislative conference and experience it to understand the importance of APRO. Because those folks on the hill, especially every couple of years they roll over, most of them can't spell rent on, let alone understand what we do. So to go in and sit down and say, hey, we're not here looking for a bill, we're not here looking for anything. We just want to explain to you, make sure you understand what we're doing, so that if anything comes up, you can yell at us and help us uh work our way through anything that might come along. It's just uh uh it maybe it gets to where when you go in these, especially uh if you've done it in a while, you go from office, you'll see the same face, but they may be working for a different representative or a different senator, but they remember you because of something you said to them last year, the year before. But it's very, very, very crucial that the people that enjoy the fruits of this industry, whether it be a supplier or or a rent-to-owned dealer, they need to be involved in APRO because without APRO, you might not have a business.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

When you start when when did you start going to the to the legislative conference for April?

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Uh I actually because prior to coming to work for O'Rourke, we have people in a rental channel at LG that would do that. But as soon as I came to work for O'Rourke, that first year, probably 20 2021, maybe 2022, I started going to the legislative conference.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

And and I said is wait, is that 20 you said 2021 or 2022 or 2001 and 2002? Oh 2001, 2001, 2002.

What Makes RTO Programs Different

SPEAKER_00 34:02

I'm sorry. My bad, Pete. Thank you for correcting me. No, it's probably 2001, 2002, and then oh about three or four years in, uh there was a guy named Ellison Crider that was a uh a dealer in South Texas that was the head of the vendor advisory committee. And he wanted to, he was getting into his own business. So he and Bill Keese called me and said, Hey, we'd like for you to get on the vendor advisory committee and uh and become the vice chair. And I said, Well, how do I do that? They said, Well, you have to be voted in, but if you say you'll do it, I guarantee you you'll get voted in. So I did, and the rest is history.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Now, in Texas, there was the Henry B. Gonzalez thing where, you know, it was a legislator who was trying to end what you know, what we know as rent to own. When that was happening, where were you as a part of a part of this? Were you able to take part in some of what happened? Did you know about what was going on at that particular time when they were trying to basically end rent to own as we know it?

SPEAKER_00 35:08

I wasn't actively involved in that effort, but I was very much aware of it. So no, I can't take any credit for that. But I the Henry B. Gonzalez, it's kind of ironic that over the years we've had rent-to-own conventions in the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

We sure have.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

And he's the very guy who tried to put us out of business.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

You know, talk about ironic, right? And then and then and then we go in there and have more successes year after year after year after year after that. So like how would you describe the mutual dependency that rent-to-owned dealers have with their vendors?

SPEAKER_00 35:42

I'm not sure how to explain that, other than to say this business is very, very, very much relationship-driven. If you're going to be successful in this business as a vendor, you you need to get acquainted with the people you're doing business with, learn about who they are, what they're about. In a lot of cases, most of a lot of these people, I know their kids, I know their grandkids, um, and am genuinely interested in their lives and what they do. And I think that people when you're dealing with people, they can sense whether you're sincere or not, whether you care about them or not, or whether you're just trying to get an order. I'm never just trying to get an order. I'm trying to develop a r a relationship that is mutually beneficial, that says anything you need, Mr. Dealer, if I can help you, I will. And that that may even mean that I may not sell you anything. It may mean when I send you in another direction because I don't have what you need, but I'll try to help you any way I can. Hopefully I have something I can help you with, but if I don't, I'll still try to help you. You got to care about people, you got to care about long-term relationships. If you love it's it's amazing, Pete. If you love people, you get that love back. And it's just the way I live my life.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

I can tell, I could tell that, Bill. That's the way that's the way you do it. That's the way you've always been. When you go back to the point where we're talking about you're selling RCA TVs to the rent-owned industry, and Whirlpool was involved a little bit in front. What was the progression? You said you know, you did TVs first, you did the RCA TVs first, and we're talking about early 70s. What was the progression of inventory after that that you dealt with? Obviously, it was TVs first. Was it appliance second or was it anything else second? What came through?

O’Rourke Pivot And Rapid Growth

SPEAKER_00 37:39

In the 70s, it started out with the big cellar in the rental own rent-to-owned industry was 19-inch black and white televisions to begin with. And that evolved into colored television in the early late 60s, early 70s. And obviously lead laundry with washers and dryers. Um from my perspective, I'd never I've never done a lot in furniture, but I've done everything you can in TV andor appliances. But the evolution is it started out even when the rent-to-owned dealer's mentality was I gotta have the cheapest TV I can get so I can rent it. Probably got to have the cheapest washer and dryer that I can acquire so I can rent it. But over time, obviously that has evolved a little bit. It it keeps changing, and even today it keeps changing because today there's more high-end product done. Um we'll give you where we were then. Back then we the other thing we did a lot of, and it was back in the early days was was big stereos that had lights, big old speakers that there was nothing behind the speaker grill, but it it looked impressive. And in some cases sounded okay, but not not great. But we did a lot of that kind of stuff. Those things have all evolved, just like in on the retail side over the over the years. And a good example today that we didn't even have back then, our fastest growing category of product is gaming towers and gaming systems, like PS5s, Xboxes, uh, that kind of product, as well as gaming towers and monitors. That category is surpassing television in volume because you rent a gaming tower and a monitor, that's that's in the same volume as renting like 375-inch TVs today. I mean, it's the dynamic has changed in in terms of what our dealers are are really renting and what they want. Television is still a big part of our business, but it's not the biggest part anymore. It's part of it. Twenty one years, twenty five years ago when I started here twenty four, television drove the drove the bus for us for many years. As being the highest volume product. That's now, it's still there and it's still viable, but because prices have come down so much and new products have come to the forefront, they're not nearly as impactful for us in terms of volume and what we do. But we don't want to turn any of that down because that business is still there. It's just changed.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Now the tariff situation is something that a lot of people talk about. You know, they say, oh, you know, tariffs are going to change the world uh in the United States. You know, it's going to change everything if it's not going to be the same. You know, tariffs are going to make a lot of things uh more expensive to get, harder to buy. As you've gone through the generations of what you've sold, you know, going from one product to the next product to the next product, has there anything, has there been anything like a tariff uh in the back, you know, in the back end and years ago that kind of put a strain on some of your dealers to be able to purchase or some of you know what you had to be able to say this is a good product, but the price went up for whatever reason, whether it be manufacturing costs, shipping costs, anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Well, but going back early on, all of our products pretty much we sold or rent to home back in the 70s were manufactured in the United States. Appliances, television, RCA was to manufacture plants all over the all over the country, Bloomington, Indiana, Indianapolis. They had cabinet plants over in the Carolinas, but Zenith at that time the same, Magnavox, and the names have changed. A lot of the names that were were big in our industry 50 years ago don't even exist today. A good example is Zenith. When I got in this business, over 50% of the television business was done by RCA and Zenith. They pretty much split it down the middle. And then you had Magnavox and Motorola and Sylvania, different brands that Admiral did a little business, but over half the business was with two brands. And also back then, Whirlpool and GE were over fifty percent of the business in appliances. Now that's changed dramatically over the years. Um with with the changes in the way of but the the changes that that had some effect while living through that was manufacturing moving out of the U.S. to either Mexico or the Orient, China, Taiwan, Vietnam, those things changed the way we do business. Lead times changed because all of a sudden, well, it wouldn't say all of a sudden, but you went from having product manufactured here that was manufactured in a plant, put on a truck and delivered to your warehouse, and now it's manufactured in a plant, put on a boat that takes six, eight weeks to get here. So the way you plan your business had to change with the way the manufacturing was done. So that changed the way we did we did. We had to look at our forecasting, look at our needs, and we had to get better at planning our business because the plants were no longer in the U.S. It was it was a different business. And it was different.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

It seems like you could definitely change the aspect of it, you know, when you're talking about a week lead time to six-week lead time. So, you know, as a in in so our work is a distributor, correct? Yes. So basically, the the the role of a distributor is to get all these products in and then ship from the warehouses here after they've already already come. Is that correct? That's correct. Now, now that you have that ability because we're storing it here, it's been placed, that's what the cycles you're talking about. We have to know what probably is going to sell within the next six to eight weeks. We've got to put that order, it comes in, and then we we sell it early on. So when it comes to new product that are coming in, something that you know, uh a new idea, a new stereo, a new computer, how far out do you have to order it before you actually have that product in your distribution cycle?

Vendor Support For Advocacy

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Depends upon what it is, and if it's a new product, I'll give you a good example. I mentioned gaming towers is as one of our bigger, fastest growing categories for us. We developed Skytech as our go-to brand in gaming towers, and we were looking at a way to do that, and we looked at traditional manufacturers, and their stuff wasn't all that cool looking. Plus, they they were not too sure about rent to own, just like folks at a TV business weren't 50 years ago. Well, how do you know this is going to work? Well, we know it's gonna work. But anyway, we found a supplier in Skytech, and Jane R. Doan, who's our vice president in charge of that area of procuring product, met with him. He sat down with their engineers and literally designed what we wanted in a gaming tower with lights, the fan, the features that we wanted in a gaming tower, and designed what he believed, and he's been dead or dead right on it, would work for rent to own. Our first order, a pallet of towers, is 18 pieces. Our first order was 18 pieces five years ago, and they were sold before we ever got them. Last year, I can't give you a number, but we sold many, many, many thousands of those gaming towers. But when you got a new product and you know what's gonna do and how it's gonna develop, obviously you've got to have a little caution and try to figure it out, but um been very successful with it. Um but the lead times there again, that product is is assembled and put together here in the States, but a lot of the chips and a lot of the components come from the China or Vietnam, Taiwan, someplace across the water. So forecasting there again, you've got to look at lead times, and you know, you're looking six, eight, some cases three months out from the when you decide you're gonna do something until you actually get that finished product in your barn shipped to a dealer. So the planning side of this business has gotten more difficult, but also with uh programming and computers and and the way we can uh manage data, it's not as difficult maybe as it sounds. Because we got a lot of information at our fingertips to help us manage that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Not as difficult as it used to be, right? Now that AI is involved and have all these uh computer cycles. So looking back on your career from like the 1970s to today, what is one thing about this industry that still surprises you?

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Probably more than anything else, I would say, Pete, is is the great thing. Is how much it changes from one year to the next in terms of what we're selling, what our what our customers want, what they need. I mean, you got you got dealers renting tires, you got dealers renting. Somebody told me ten years ago I'd be selling purses that people would rent, I would have told them you were crazy. But we do a lot of just the things that, especially in the rent-to-own industry, the products that people are willing to rent because they have a desire for it. And that's the other thing I think too, is a lot of these products that we sell to our dealers and they rent are kind of status symbols for their customer, whether it be a big television or a Michael Coors purse or the refrigerator, the family hub refrigerator that has a computer in it and a screen. I think a lot of cases those are not only they they fill a need, but they also are somewhat of a status symbol for the family that's doing it.

Relationship-Driven Sales Philosophy

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Well, I mean, you you've you've I think you've nailed it on the head. When you walk into somebody's house and you're going, oh, you're, you know, you're a rent-to-one customer, but oh my God, look at the 100-inch TV. Oh my God, look at you know, that custom-built rig that you have over there that can play the AAA games uh that are coming out in today's world, and you know, 4K, 8K, and everything thereof. Or, you know, they go to they go to get a drink out of the fridge and it's just something out of this world. I agree with you 100%. It's not what it used to be. Uh, and nowadays people are willing to pay whatever they need to in order to get what they want. And it's not always a need because you obviously have the needs. I mean, that's literally what this business was built on the people who have needs who don't have the ability. But then it's also transitioned to, well, this is a want, and I want this. I think it's a great idea, but I want to have the larger TV. I want to have the faster gaming computer. I want to have, you know, the shiny stereo, whether it makes light, you know, whether it has lights or not, you know, it's it's also turned into a choice. This is what I can have, but this is also what I want. And how do we marry those together?

SPEAKER_00 49:04

One of the best keep rate products that we sell to the rent-town industry is a gaming tower or a PS5, something to do with gaming. None of those are needs. Those are nothing more than wants. But the keep rate there is better than it is on, they might give up their kids' buckbits before they give up their gaming system.

unknown 49:26

I hope.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

But you might exactly be right. Well, I gotta ask you, you know, as we wind down, what do you want people to remember about the vendors who helped build rent to own?

SPEAKER_00 49:37

As much as anything that anybody, if you're a dealer or if you're a vendor, the goal is looking at it from either side, is you want a partner. You develop a partnership that is mutually beneficial, and if you care about one another, things are gonna work every day. But but you gotta care, you gotta you gotta be sensitive to the needs in any business relationship. It has to be win win. The vendor has to win, the dealer has to win. And and if as a vendor you feel like, or when you're renting a customer, if you feel like, oh man, I won that one, I took advantage of that person, in the long run, you're going to lose. You need for whomever you're dealing with to feel like you may be winning, but they also have to feel like they are winning, and you need to feel like they are winning. You both have to win. If you do that, and pretty simple, don't ever make a commitment that you can't keep. You're not sure of your that you're able to keep. Always, always, if you always look after the customer's needs first, you're always going to win.

Product Evolution And Gaming Surge

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Well, this is a relationship business, right? I mean, 100% and we we have built and we live by the relationships that we've built, whether you're coming up from the from the 70s, like like Mr. Bill French has, the the one and only who has bred it up through the decades, whether you're coming into it now, it's about based on the relationship and the builds, the ability to, you know, nurture that relationship. And you know, I do what I say I'm gonna do, you do what you say you're gonna do, and everybody be up front because not everybody's perfect and things happen, but let's be up front and always work on our obligations and make it happen. Uh Bill, I can't tell you how important it is to have you on the Legends series, to do some of the things that you've done throughout all the years, to be able to re recount some of the things that you've been able to be a part of and work on and do. It has absolutely been just amazing to talk with you. I'm so glad that you've been on here 24 years of our work, 54 years in the rent-to-owned industry. It doesn't get much better than that. I mean, I think Bill French knows just about everything there is to know on your side of the fence. Guys, I want to tell you I appreciate you joining us for the Legends series. It has been so fun being able to speak to some of these legends and kind of learn a lot about the rent-to-one industry and what they've poured into it, the importance they've had. If you have any questions, please reach out to the uh to the podcast. It's Pete at the RTO Showpodcast.com. If you have any questions for Bill, reach out, send me an email, and I will make sure that he gets an answer for you because I'm sure there are a lot more things that you want to know that I didn't even get to yet. Want to tell you if you want to look us up, we are on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube where you're gonna see this. Please send me a DM if you have any questions. Make sure you subscribe and like. You can also go to the website at www.thertoshowpodcast.com, buy some squag. You can also support the show on there. Bill, I appreciate you being here. I loved everything. I love it so much. I hate to see that there might be an end to this, but I'm gonna tell you guys as long as Bill is around, I will be around. Uh, and we're gonna be looking forward to that. And if you have a party, Bill, you've got to invite me because we're gonna have one heck of a retirement party. But I will tell you guys as always, thank you for being here and make sure that you get your collections low to get your sales high. Have a great one. Thank you, Pete. Hey everyone, it's Pete Chao here from the RTO Show Podcast, and I want to tell you about a company that's making a real difference in the rent-to-owned space. WoW brands. I've seen firsthand how they approach marketing. Let me tell you, it's not just about addicts. WoW brands build complete digital ecosystems designed specifically for the rent-to-owned industry. Their e-commerce and lead generation strategies are built to bring qualified leaders. Did I mention that they are actively working with the rent-owned industry while also being members of April and Trip? These folks are passionate about it. They don't just slap something together. They design, build, and scale the kind of digital retail tools your business needs. Your customers actually want. So if you're serious about growing, reach out to WoWBrands at Wildbrands.com. I trust it, and I think you will too.