Why RTO Still Wins Today

Cash flow lies, growth is expensive, and culture slips the moment leaders get too far from the counter. We sit down with Jerry Marshall, a longtime rent-to-own operator turned owner of seven locations under Kappa Investments, to talk about what it really takes to scale in the RTO industry without losing the standards that built the business in the first place.

Jerry walks us through his winding path from Rentway to Aaron’s to entrepreneurship, including what buyouts and getting “traded” taught him about resilience, timing, and choosing the right platform. From there, we get practical: cash flow versus P&L, the inventory roller coaster, when it makes sense to use the bank’s money, and why “Rome wasn’t built overnight” is not just a saying, it is survival advice for multi-unit growth.

We also dig into leadership and hiring, especially in a post-COVID labor market. Jerry explains what “investing in people” looks like in real life: showing up, working beside the team, coaching with patience, and refusing to tolerate the small lazy behaviors that quietly wreck operations. As an APRO board member, he shares how industry history, advocacy, and regulation shape the way smart operators think long-term. Then we look ahead at virtual rent-to-own and why a hybrid digital model may be the next evolution.

If you got value from this conversation, subscribe, share it with another RTO leader, and leave a review so more operators can find the show.

Transcript

Pete Shau 0:06

Hello and welcome to the RTO show. I'm your host, Pete Chao. Today, got an amazing guest for you. But as always, want to cover some homework with you first. Make sure that you subscribe to the newsletter. This is probably the best source of information outside of what April is giving right now. And this is stuff that we don't cover on the podcast. It's going to be new to you, but it's really important to the RTO industry. So make sure you check that out by going to www, the RTO Showpodcast.com. Go onto the website. You can listen to us. You can buy some swag, and you can subscribe to the newsletter. And getting to the man of the hour, Mr. Jerry Marshall, somebody I've wanted to have on the show for a while. I am very appreciative that I finally was able to lock you down, especially what I've just heard. You got a lot going on, so we'll talk about that a little bit. But Jerry, very busy. Listen, this guy is super busy in the RTO world. Not only is he running uh Kappa Investments, which is, and I'll let you get into it, but you know, as a situation with buddies, he's also on the board of Apro. He's also got a very large family that he takes care of. He plays ball all the time. We're going to talk about book reviews because so you get just a little bit of backstory. So we're in DC at the Ledge Con in 2026, and we're riding around with a bunch of guys. It was Chad Fosdick, it was Jerry, it was me, uh, and it was Vince Fickrota,

Welcome And Newsletter Homework

Pete Shau 1:21

right? And we're all riding around trying to get to this uh to a great restaurant, which I thought was a good restaurant, anyways. Philippines, Philippinas in DC. If you guys haven't been here, you should go. We're riding around and we get into this conversation about RTO, about learning. And you know, you got to understand when you're with a bunch of guys who love what they do, it is a situation. And Jerry's just getting passionate. Jerry's getting passionate. We're talking about hiring, we're talking about firing, we're talking about getting things going. And you can just see the the passion coming out of uh Jerry and said, Jerry, we got we got it, we got to talk about that. We've got to talk about that. So, in the mixed, the mix of like 15 books that we were talking about, and everything that we were doing and where we were going, we're like halfway down DC. I don't even know where we were at that point. But, you know, Jerry, I appreciate you being on the show. Listen, you got a lot going on today, but so far, how's everything going?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

That's good, man. Thank you. I'm I'm like honored to have you to be on the show with you. Um, I've seen all the other guys and girls that have been on the show, so I feel like I don't belong with some of those guys that that you've had on the show, but I'm honored that you, you know, feel intrigued enough to have me join you.

Pete Shau 2:24

Well, I tell you what, Jerry, you have a very unique story. Let me let me just dispel that right now. You definitely belong here because you have a lot to teach a lot of people and a lot of the way you're thinking. But just want to go back just a little bit. 24 years in the RTO industry, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Actually, you know, a little longer, um, a little longer in the tooth. We just I just joined 27-year club. 1999. Yeah, May of '99. Yes, sir.

Pete Shau 2:51

He he he he's growing. You see that? We we put him on here. He's already got three more extra years of experience. That's what happens when you join the show. But uh, so you come on the show, and I gotta know. Before all this, because your passion comes out in a lot of things. It was not the first conversation we've had, and it's definitely hopefully not the last, but you know, I can always tell that you're very passionate about what you do and how you react to certain things, whether it be new hires, maintaining business, growing new uh accounts, or growing new stores. What got you in the RTO industry to begin with?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

So um, I guess I I had started, I was in between jobs, you know, back in 1999, started a little painting business to bide my time and you know, had my resume online, I forget the the platform it was on at that point in time, but um, you know, had a RTO guy with Rentway of all names uh give me a call and said, hey, you know, we got this MIT position and wanted to know if um I'd be interested. So I came by, met with a guy, he kind of sold me on the dream. You know, I was looking for an opportunity. I always felt like I was a hard worker, quick learner, just really never got um the opportunity what I was looking for, um, with an opportunity to grow and and just an opportunity to get a start. And, you know, and that's I answered the ad and finished up my last couple painting jobs and was working part-time in the business before I finished up those painting jobs and came on full-time and um kind of went from there. Um that was 1999, and here we are 2026, and still plugging away at it.

Pete Shau 4:19

Jerry, if I pull up an old MySpace, you're not gonna have a resume on your old MySpace, am I? I just want to know. I just want to make sure that it's probably there. It's probably the Yeah. I had one. I don't even know what happened to it. I don't I couldn't even find a way to get into it. Yeah. So you go from painting, you get into the RTO business. Um, now here's the thing. You're running seven locations. You have, I guess, under under you know, cap investments, you have seven locations. That's a big jump from coming in to where you are now. Now, kudos to that because I can tell you right now, being an entrepreneur and investing in yourself is huge, but it's also not easy. So, as you come into this, what led you to decide to, because you're you're starting with Rentway, what led you down that road with Buddies Home Furnishings versus Rentway? And was it because they had that franchise opportunity? I mean, what got you there?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

So my story's kind of long and twisted. Um, you know, I worked for Rentway. We got bought by Rent A Center. I was a regional manager at that point. I grew up with Rentway. Again, like I said, I kind of pursued the dream, and the dream followed me along, and I became a regional manager with Rentway. Then all of a sudden get my bubble burst, Rent Center buys us, and um that didn't feel like it was a good opportunity for me. So um Michael Bennett, everybody knows Michael. Michael had been on me for a while. He was with Aaron's and um he was working with the Aaron's franchise at the point in time, and he was like, hey man, I got an opportunity right here in your market. You don't have to move. I know about you, you know, so it was perfect timing. He caught me at my weakest moment, I guess, um, because I really loved Rentway. Um, enjoyed my time there, learned a lot, grew a lot, made a lot of money, um, which is what I enjoyed the most at that point in time. And um the uh so when Michael invited me over to come work with him at Aaron's and did that for a couple years, and here we go, full circle again, and worked for a franchisee there, and the franchisee sells out. So I worked for corporate for two months. Corporate sells me to another franchisee.

How Jerry Enters Rent To Own

SPEAKER_00 6:15

I was like, man, I feel like a, you know, a show pony or something, just getting traded and sold all over the place. And so I kind of got out of the business for, you know, about nine months, Pete, um, after, you know, bought and sold, bought and sold a couple times. And um, during that time, I just got antsy, missed the business because I enjoyed it, I loved it, I finally found something that I loved as much as I love sports. Um so I was doing that for a while. I mean, just sitting at home wondering what I'm gonna do. And I answered an ad actually with Easy Home, who was franchising out of Canada, wanted to grow their business in the United States, and they had this little competition. I don't like calling competition because I like to feel like I earned it, I didn't just win it. Um, but um anyway, I got the opportunity where they came in, gave me an opportunity to go in business for myself, become an entrepreneur. They provided some financing. Uh, we came in and we blew it out the water, uh, me and my team at the point in time. Um, two of those guys are still with me today. Um, since 2010 is when I went in business for myself. So we're 16 years now. Um, and um, we blew it out the water, you know. Easy home had a requirement. You had to pay that loan off. They gave you all that money, and that two years comes fast. So we had to get them paid off. So that was my motivation um initially on the first store. So we got them paid off in two years, and then it was like, hey man, you did so great. We're gonna we're willing to go in in bed with you for a second store. So they financed me for a second store. Um, so I got store number two off the ground in 2013. And then 2016, here comes, you know, my old Aaron's buddies, um, Michael Bennett included and said, Hey, you know, we'd love to have you over here at Buddies. And if we, you know, could come up with a way to get you out of that easy home system and get you a part of the buddy system, would you be interested? I was like, yeah, you know, why not? You know, it was an opportunity. They had four stores. I had two stores, and you know, two of the markets we shared. And so it was an opportunity, again, for me to grow some more and grow a little easier, um, to go from two stores to four stores. So I took advantage of the opportunity and we negotiated our way out of the easy home system and I became a part of the buddy system in 2016. And um, so I'm getting ready to come up in August. It'll be 10 um yeah, 10 years um in inside the buddy system where we've gone from I came over with two, if it instantly went to four, and then we added two more and then added another. So that's how we got up to seven in the last 10 years. Wow.

Pete Shau 8:48

That's a that's a now, that's a story. See, he's saying he's I got nothing to say. You can't, dude. That is a story. Now, after being, you know, traded like a deck of sports cars, and we're talking about sports, and you make it from one spot to the other, here you are as an owner. You know, that to me speaks volumes. Not only that, um, easy home wasn't a small situation. Easy home actually has about 140 uh locations, and and I know in Canada right now. Um, we actually opened up a uh uh an RR Tire Express across the street from an easy home, and we paid them a visit because I mean, like, hey, these guys are the guys to beat up here, so let's talk to them and see what's going on, you know, probably do a little bit of cross-marketing. And it was one of those things like this is this, you know, for what we have in the States, they're a major player in Canada and they have it really locked down. They're they're pretty big and they have different sections. I know they have like easy finance and all this stuff, and it was like, wow, like I really just didn't know. So I loved being in Canada, I'm gonna say it's it's a little warmer down here in the south, but I enjoyed being in Canada. It was really nice. Um, so after you start doing this, you go from four to nine stores, you've got a little bit of a kind of like breathing room. But now here comes all the problem. Now I wouldn't say problems, but all this the breathing room that you have also comes with now, you're hiring for seven stores. Now you're overseeing seven stores, now you're worried about the PL bottom line for seven stores, now you're you're ordering for seven stores. You got, you know, how many ever trucks? I would say 14, but maybe a little bit more. Like as you're doing that, how was the transition from going from being a multi-unit for somebody else to being a multi-unit for yourself? And what were some of the things that you like you've learned as an entrepreneur over a multi-unit versus a multi-unit for somebody else? Yeah.

Getting Bought And Finding Fit

SPEAKER_00 10:34

So I would say that the biggest thing is the cash flow piece, right? Um, understanding that, you know, a lot of people in the business are like, oh yeah, we make this much money, you know, when you come from the corporate world, you understand a PL, but when you when you're truly looking at, you know, how much cash is really left at the end of each month. Um, and sometimes at the end of each week, um, but you know, at the end of each month. And you that I would say that was my biggest learning, just understanding that, realizing that, hey, the, you know, the more you grow, the more cash, you know, every every store is not gonna be super ultra successful. So you're gonna have some drains on the cash at times, um, particularly when you go to open up a new one. I mean, you know what it costs to open up a new store and you know, the cash drag there, particularly when you're trying to do it from your own bank account and you're not actually playing with the bank's money um on that deal. So we we went through that phase and I learned real real quick that hey, sometimes it's better to play with the bank's money and uh keep yours, because cash is king. Um, but I'm just a guy that that's just not a big fan of debt. So um that that just learning that phase um of it, Pete, I would say was probably my biggest learning along the way, is just just managing that cash piece. Um

Going From Employee To Owner

SPEAKER_00 11:48

and and you know, inventory, you know, there's a growth phase, so you go through those ebbs and flows kind of like a roller coaster, you know, it's like yeah, you can grow like gangbusters, the more you're growing, the more inventory you're having to buy, and then you gotta wait for that cash to catch up um to get the return on that investment. So um it's it's a real learning curve and learning cycle. Um, a lot of sleepless nights trying to figure that piece out.

Pete Shau 12:12

God, I can only imagine. You know, one of the things that I always had is you always have these employees who are like, we have so many customers, we're bringing this in, we're making money, and like, whoa, slow down, slow down. The difference between what the cash looks like and what the cash is, there is a big gap. Yeah, you might be collecting it, but how much should it take to grow this place? How much should it take to build out? How much should it take to get these two trucks that you know? I mean, it used to be you'd get a truck for 40 grand, now it's like 60, 70 grand, and it's just yeah, I mean, everything is just shot up. It's just crazy numbers. And then absolutely going from one point to the next, and you you know now, hey, uh, an investment here won't might not pay off for six months, might not pay for eight months. And then if it gets slower, might not pay off for 12 months, and you really got to go through that. And you it's an education piece for a lot of employees that they think, oh, you know, I'm looking in this product that's only made, you know, is made this much. We we could just get rid of it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on. You don't even know how much it costs to get that, let alone put it out there, how many times has it been back, how much is time has it been, you know, it there's so much of a learning curve. And I would imagine that going through that, going from being outside the business to inside the business to becoming an owner in the business and doing your multi-unit, because I know you've we've talked about it before, you've gone back and forth on having somebody be a regional free or or district, however you guys call it, and then not going back and forth because of based on how they perform or how they don't perform or how it affects the business. You know, is that where the passion came from? Just getting your hands into it and getting deep, like they neck deep into it and going, you know what, I'm gonna make this work. Is that where the Jerry Marshall passion comes from?

SPEAKER_00 13:45

I would say, you know, the the passion for me, Pete, it it probably started early in this business. I mean, I can go back to probably 1999 to 2000 when I first got in it. I was a very shy guy. I mean, still shy in in ways, right? Um, more passionate in smaller groups. Um, but I I would say, you know, it's one of the things I tell people all the time, especially my personal friends. I'm like, you know, I've been the business has been really good to me, but you know, on the selfish side, I've been really good for the business too. So the passion comes from because when you love doing what you do, like I genuinely like all people and probably more considerate of less fortunate people than I am of of people that are, you know, more fortunate. I guess just to to to contradict that. But um that that's where my passion is, just seeing people happy, smile, you know, the relationships you build in this business, not you know, inside the four walls, not just with your teams, but with your customers. Um, you know, I even like to stress that hey, I I don't even like calling them customers, I like calling them clients, right? Because client means we have a relationship. Let me ask you something.

Pete Shau 14:53

Are you getting everything out of your rent-to-owned business? If you're not an APRO member, then the answer is probably no. Look, advocacy is April's bread and butter. This is why they were created and what they do best. But here's the thing April membership is about way more than advocacy. April connects you to the movers and the shakers of the industry, people who've been there, done that, and they could help you do it even better. APRO's monthly webinars give you expert insights and actionable takeaways. It's like having a masterclass for your business every single month. Got questions about complex regulations or sticky situations? No problem. April's Legal Hotline gives you direct access to experts who have got the answers. That's a peace of mind that you can't put a price on. And let's not forget the resources, news, updates, and tools that keep you ahead of the curve. Scholarships for your team? Check. Disaster relief when you need it most? Double check. APRO is your ultimate support system in the rent-to-own world. So stop settling for less. With APRO members, get more. More support, more connections, and more success. Head over to rtohq.org and join the APRO family today. Because in this business, more isn't just better. It's essential. See you at the top with APRO.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Um, a custom means that that we're in and out. Um so I I would say I've had that passion ever since this business has been so I've just it it's changed my life, changed my family's life, changed the outcome of Jerry Marshall. Um, so um I just like to, you know, reciprocate that back and just make sure that I I share as much as I can and hopefully I can light somebody's fire like my regional manager that hired me in 1999. You know, he sold me a dream, and everything he said came true with, you know, off of hard work and willing to learn and be coachable.

Pete Shau 16:39

I mean, absolutely. So when you talk about this passion, how important is it to bring people aboard, cap investments, you know, buddies home furnishings that work for you? How important is that piece as you exude it, as it's something that you do? Is it you like you said, uh it's been good

Why APRO Membership Matters

Pete Shau 16:55

for me, but I've been good for it. I put in some some hard times. How important is it to bring somebody aboard and go, you know what, regardless of the situation, you've got to be passionate. Is that something that comes out during the hiring process and the maintenance process between the hire date and hopefully the never release date? But if there's a release date, like, you know, where does it play in that?

SPEAKER_00 17:13

So I usually try to start it out. You know, my interviews are very informal. I've, you know, I'm very introductory with how my interviews go. Nine times out of ten, I'm gonna be very informal. I just want to, you know, get to know the person. So as a part of that process, is I do, I know that you learn early in the stages you got to do more listening than you do talking. But I do like to share, you know, some of the stories that not not not only the blog with myself, but some other team members that I've can't come across over the years. And um, hopefully I can, you know, share that passion with someone else so they can understand number one, what I'm looking for, what we're looking for, but also if if there's an opportunity, if you've got it in you, you know, let us help bring it out of you. And who knows, you can make this into a career for yourself as well. I totally agree.

Pete Shau 18:01

You know, talking about certain things, talking about, you know, the passion, you mentioned uh just a second ago about family and and them being involved. Is the family ever gonna be involved in what you're doing? Because I know you've you've got is it five children that you have?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Uh four, four, four kids, three gang, three grandkids now. So um, you know, right now, Pete, it's um my son's kind of in and out. I think he's on the fence, whether it's something he wants to be involved with. So I don't know where that's gonna land. I don't know where it's gonna go as far as that goes. Um, you know, one side of me says, hey, I would love for that, you know, legacy to carry on, but then there's another side of me knowing the grind, knowing the challenges, um, that

Clients Not Customers Mindset

SPEAKER_00 18:43

um, you know, I think it's a blessing for them to go off and find their own careers. And, you know, if they wind up coming back, they come back. You know, my oldest daughter is a nurse. Um, that's her field. She's passionate about people, and nursing's perfect for her. And, you know, wow. My other daughter, she's she wants to be uh a TV star, so I don't think rent to own's gonna work for her on that.

Pete Shau 19:05

So let me ask you a question. Uh you know, I would imagine you take what you do very seriously, and that is not just a passion project, but passion is a part of it.

Hiring For Passion And Coaching

Pete Shau 19:16

How big is the passion for what you do put out in the family household? How important is it for, you know, as you're you're telling the kids to like, hey, listen, if you follow my footsteps, great. If not, it's okay. Do you also say, you know, whatever you do, be passionate and strengthful about it to make sure that you give everything that you have to making it work?

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Absolutely. I mean, that's that's a foundation of who I am. You know, if you're not gonna find something that you care about, you know, be passionate about it and uh put in the whatever work's required. And more importantly, be coachable, right? Um, with everything that you do. No one knows it all. Um, so part of you know being coachable is is is a learning experience and being able to learn uh along the way. So that that's important to me. Just be passionate about whatever you do. Even when we play sports, you know, they know everybody says that I'm too passionate about everything because I'm

Family Legacy And Work Ethic

SPEAKER_00 20:04

so competitive, but um that's just who I am, and it's kind of what I try to inspire in others.

Pete Shau 20:10

But you gotta you understand, part of our conversation as we're in DC, him and Chad are talking about going back and forth and and having the stats and writing the stats in the game. Listen, I can barely follow the game. They're following the game and writing the errors and the runs and the I can't even I can't even keep up with my accounting on the PL form. So, you know, everything he does is got a path. I'm telling you, that's why he's here. It's a passionate day-to-day. So, you know, kind of going over that, I would, you know, I see that you do a lot of things and when you when you put yourself to it, you really care about it. There, there is there is something that innately just says, hey, if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna put my attention to this, it's gonna be my full attention. And I I think that resonates in what you do, and I think that's why you draw a crowd and you you say that you're kind of you know to yourself, listen, being humble is also an attraction point. Some people love it when you know somebody's out there going, oh, I I have this much money and I can do all this. Oh, God, just save it. You know, but sometimes you're just looking for that person in the room that's the real person. You know, I love the fact that you got your chain. I see that you have your cross on. I'm sure that, you know, you you you believe in that as much as you can. I I know that family is big for you. Um, and I I know that not that not that long ago, it was probably uh maybe a couple years ago that you graced us on the cover of A Pro Magazine, the RTO HQ magazine. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Yeah, that's right. That's right. It's one of my biggest honors uh being in this business. I'm I'm very proud of that.

Pete Shau 21:31

So listen, they they saw it good enough to say Jerry was in the front cover. Listen, I've got on there, but I never made front cover. I'm just saying. So I love that. I love that about it. As you're going on, what advice would you give, you know, coming from your perspective, where you've been, how you treat your business now, what you know now? What would you what advice would you give to the RTO community now in today's era? Because you're talking about coming in at night. That's a very different RTO than was 2005, that was 2015, was right before, you know, COVID in 2020. What would you say? You've been through all that. Advice to the RTO community.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

So, you know, and what I'm gonna say, it probably does go back to the 99. It's just that you got to get there differently. But um, it's just the people, right? Just love on your people and appreciate always, you know, tell my gosh, you know, if someone's able to be coached, um, you know, they're willing to work, then we can get them everywhere else we need them to get. So I would say, you know, love the one you with before you go chasing the one that you don't have sometimes, right? Just to make sure. Um, so I I kind of use that motto that to make sure that we've invested everything we can in the people that you have before you go searching for someone else. So that's my number one thing is is still love on your people. I know you know you have conversations all the time with people. It's like, oh, you know, nobody wants to work and you know, all of this coming out of COVID. Yes, the work ethic has changed, but in another aspect, it's still there. You just gotta find different ways to pull it out of people. So it's just not so easy that they just have it and they just show up and they do what's necessary to be successful. You've got to use tact and just find different ways to pull out um the powers of people, so to speak. So I guess that was my that's one of my biggest things that, you know, I've had to learn over the last couple of years, Pete, as we've, you know, came out of COVID, struggled with staffing, and now that, you know, there's talented people that you're finding more and more that are available. Um, and um just investing in the people. I think it's that's still the number one thing out there is just investing in the people so that they can invest back. And then it's just kind of like you buy that wash and dryer set, we can make the investment up front, you reap the benefits, you know, day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year as you flow down the road. So I I that that would be my biggest thing is just learning that, understanding that, realizing that's still a thing. Um, just because staffing has gotten tougher and it's gotten different, um, you know, don't lose hope in um providing the passion and investing in people.

Pete Shau 24:21

You know, they say uh I was looking at a couple of reports not that long ago, and they said that Gen Z is it's dual-sided. They actually work sometimes a little bit harder, but they only work harder on the things that they believe in. So remedial jobs like let's say McDonald's or fast food, I won't I don't want to call anybody out, but you know, fast food and and and large big box Walmarts, whatever, that remedial task, they just don't believe in it. They don't show any passion on it. But if you give them something that they believe in, they're actually shown to work harder than the previous generation because they have an emotional attachment to what they're doing and believe that it's creating a difference. And that difference makes a huge difference in how they perform. So don't know how that works in rent at home. We'd love to get you passionate as we are. Uh, you know, I got a question for you though. I'd love to go off script a little bit. Like when you say investing, tell me about it. Like, I like I want to know what an investment from Jerry Marshall seem like? Somebody who's very passionate, who has shown that they can do the business, has shown that they can not only grow it, but be a part of ownership in the business. What does investing in somebody look like in your mind?

SPEAKER_00 25:24

So mostly with me, you know, again, like I just stated, I had to relearn that myself because it kind of went through, you know, you talk to people, you try to coach them up, try to inspire them, and then you kind of leave them alone, right? Because I don't want to be a micromanager and overmanage. Um, so the thing that I've had to relearn is just take a step back and, you know, spend time holding their hand, right? When I say invest, I mean like, let me be here with you. Let me clean, let's clean, you clean that bathroom, I'm gonna clean this bathroom. Um, you know, you you file the paperwork, I'm gonna take the trash out. Um, so for me, investing in them is actually getting back into, you know, one of the old sayings is back where the rubber meets the road. If I'm gonna be in operations, um, then I need to be in operations. Um, and um, and not, and it's not that I ever got it, but it's one of the jokes to sit me and some of my friends have is like so many guys fail because they get onoritis, right? They forget what got them there. And um, I wouldn't say that I forgot, but I kind of took it for granted for a while, and I'm not afraid to say that. Um, and um just took it for granted that people would just automatically respond to what you tell them that you did, right? Versus actually seeing it in in action. And that's just how I manage. That's kind of how it's not for everybody, but that's just my management style, and that's what's made me successful for most of my career. And uh, you know, every time I look back and look at failures, it's it's when I just skip that step of um, you know, really investing in people by by being there with them where the rubber meets the road.

Pete Shau 27:04

You know what's funny? I have a there's a friend of the show, his name is Jason Winters. Uh you might know him. He does a great job.

What Investing In People Looks Like

Pete Shau 27:10

He works for uh Rack and Impact RTO Holdings, and and uh we talk operations when he's on the show, which he's actually cleared to be on the show pretty soon, because I don't ever want to get too far from it, right? And he has this statement, he has this saying, it's it's a Jason Winters special. He's like, the farther that you get from the counter, the more be more full of BS you are, because you almost forget going back because it does, it it changes, you know, and and we've talked about several different points of change, you know, whether it was the dot-com bubble, whether it was having the problems in 2000, 2008, uh 2007, 2008, when things were going crazy, you know, and then things ramped up really good, 15 and 16. You go into 19, you have no idea, boom, covet hits, and the next two years we think are gonna be terrible. Then we are we open, all of a sudden money's flowing everywhere, and now we're paying for all that money. It just it goes ups and down, it's cyclical, it's crazy. You know, but I did notice that the farther somebody the longer somebody stays away from the front counter, the it it's like that fish story, right? You caught it, it was this big. But 10 years later, it's this big. It was a fight. I had to fight, I had to get in there. And but you know, when you get away from a counter like that, you almost forget that the the ideas change, the generations change. You know, what you're selling changes. The type of cell phones that you're changing, the type of, you know, it used to be when I I remember when I first started like a washing machine, you could almost throw a grenade in there and nothing would ever happen to it, right? It was just that's just the way they were made. Now they have all kinds of bells and whistles, and if something happens, you get an error code, you gotta have somebody special to come come look at it. If it, you know, if there's a weird knock in it, forget it. You it's just so much more different than it used to be. And you know what I've noticed too that plays a big difference, and besides the passion and the fact that everything cyclical goes up, goes down, is the way we invest on our leadership team. Do you have any uh ideas, any, any, you know, good quotes, any good ideas that you can tell us this is how you invest in your leadership team, and this is this is what you've gotten out of it over the years?

SPEAKER_00 29:11

You know, I kind of repeat, you know, I I live by the same quote. I've had it since Rentway. Um, and um I'll just you know I'll I'll read excellence, right? It's a result of caring more than others think is wise. So, you know, a lot of people's like, are you crazy for this, you're crazy for that, you know, I don't answer to anybody but God, so and my life. But um, you know, but you know, I show up to work every day. Um, so and you know, I I think showing that and living that and for others to see that, that's kind of like my life thing, is just you know, caring excellence, trying to be excellent with everything that I do. Um, that's my competitive spirit. And as a part of that, the the end result is that most people think that I I care more than what's reasonable and what's possible. Um so um, but I that's just you know, if if you don't show it, then there's there's not gonna be enough there for anybody to follow, right? Um, so that's just kind of my life thing. Um is just that um kind of back to that just caring and um pursuing excellence, it's never gonna be uh uh obtained, um, but the pursuit of it is very, very rewarding. And um that goes back to my favorite movie, The Pursuit of Happiness.

Pete Shau 30:36

Oh, okay. Well, now we know we know at least it's one of those. So your wife has been with you this whole time. You talking about picked a partner that was something that came up early and it came up again with somebody that you know you you can go home and kind of hang your hat up and talk to and say, hey, I this is what happened today, this is what's going on. And they stay with you through the thick and thins. Talking about the thick and thins of it, now that you're here, you take on a little bit more, right? I mean, first off, let's talk about the elephant in the room. You said that you were here because something happened in one of your stores and you had to step in and handle that. So before we get into the rest, you this is also part of owning your own business, right? Do you think that you answer to nobody? No. Let me rephrase it. You answer to everybody. So you had to step in, you had to get some stuff done. What is it like being behind the counter again uh after everything that you've done? What is it like stepping in and just getting your hands dirty again?

SPEAKER_00 31:26

It's um it's probably why I'm happy today, even though it's been frustrating, challenging the last two weeks, right? Whenever you're trying to clean up a few things, um, it's always challenging, frustrating. You know, whether service calls didn't happen, um, dirty store, um, just different things, little things like that. But it's also very rewarding. Like right before I came to meet with you, I just finished cleaning two bathrooms um at the store. So, you know, I wanted the staff to see that first um from me and then uh understand that, hey, if I'm willing to do it, then everybody needs to be willing to do it. Um, but it's fun, Pete. Uh, you know, I always say, man, I and I challenge my manager all the time. It's like, you know, we we meet every Monday at two o'clock, and uh probably at least twice a month I challenge them, like, hey, I kick your butt. You know, I wish I had the patience. Not the patience, but I wish I had the time to run a store again because I think it would be a very fun ride. But I also challenge them that not they're not better than me. Um, and that's just the fun side. I mean, I don't really well, it's true. They're not as good as I am.

Pete Shau 32:28

Well, well, he says this, but he does love sports. He's gonna challenge you too. And if you guys don't know, Jerry has a great outlook, but Jerry's actually older than I am. Uh, he doesn't look good. Uh you look amazing for your age. Do you want to tell everybody how old you are? I'm 52. Yeah, 52 and a half. 52, right? Looking in, Philomag. Even the producer, my producer Anthony's like, nah, that ain't happening. It's true. So, on top of all this, which is something that I wanted to get into as well, you don't just run seven stores. You had other companies. You're part of some stuff. I mean, you you basically

Back Behind The Counter Again

Pete Shau 33:03

had uh something going on with with deliveries as far as Amazon goes, that was your own company. You have something else going on with with properties. So those are a couple of other things that you have going on. On top of what you told me is you play basketball all the time. You you you go to the kids' games, right? You're you're writing down the stuff, you're paying attention to what's going on with the children as well. You're a full-time dad. What is it like to have that going on as you're trying to maintain seven stores and being in the store yourself?

SPEAKER_00 33:34

It's fun, Pete. You know, I use those other things because I am, you know, everybody, you know, talks about it. Actually, I get tired of it now because I'm always considered a workaholic. I just had to debate with my sister-in-law Monday about that. I was like, I don't work as hard as I used to be, or as much as I used to. Um, I say that as I've been working a lot lately. But um the um I, you know, those things I'll call them work distractions. So it kind of helps free my mind, ease my mind. You know, the basketball thing, it's fun. I get my competition still on the court and playing with 22, 23, 30-year-olds, um, and and running up and down the court with those guys. So um, and and then it's just relationships, right? I'm still I love relationships, I love building relationships. So you just so all of those things just provide different distractions, different levels of satisfaction, slash distraction throughout my day, throughout my life that kind of helps me enjoy the life that I have and that I live. Um, you know, and the other things, you know, I, you know, I'm on the board with the boys and girls club, so I enjoy that, you know, spending time trying to, you know, help underprivileged kids there in that aspect. Um, so it's just things, just different things. My wife thinks I'm crazy because, you know, I'm always talking about doing something else, and she's like, you don't have enough time now. It's like, well, I just need something else

Side Businesses And Staying Sharp

SPEAKER_00 34:55

to help me find more time. Um, but uh it's it's just enjoyable, man. It's just an enjoyable ride. I think it helps keep me going, helps keep me young, and I just feel good about, you know, being involved with other people and helping other people in different aspects, you know. Like I coached my daughter's fast-pitched travel softball team, which, you know, Chad and I didn't realize he was a softball, softball guy. And uh that that he and I really hit it off there in in DC over that conversation slash subject. And um, you know, I love just helping other people's and and that's just my I guess is my life passion. Um, and that's why I've really enjoyed this business, because it's I see the value in what we do, and I see the our customers reaping the benefits of what we do um more so than anything else.

Pete Shau 35:43

Well, you know, there was a it it's it's a perspective. I always say it's a perspective. You might say that I'm a workaholic, I say that I'm filling my day with productive things. It's a different thing. Uh, you know, Stephen Covey says that it's the paradigm, you know, it's it's how you look at it, it's how it's viewed through what lens. Uh again, if you wanted to relax and enjoy your life in a different you know capacity than I do, then yeah, you might see it as work. And I I I don't think I have as much going on as you do, but I definitely understand filling my day with things that, you know, from one hour to the next. Um, you know, I have somebody that I care about. He he's helped me out through a lot of things, Steven Stow, and he's we were talking one time and he was just like, listen, Pete, you're gonna run yourself ragged on both ends. And if you really want to do this, there's something that you're gonna have to do. And I'm like, Steve, you got the magic bullet. If you have that thing, you need to let me know what recipe your book or you're cooking out of, because I need to know it. And he was like, the only thing I can tell you is you need to be relentless with your calendar. You just you have to know when you can, when you can do it, when you can't. And when that time is up, you're gonna have to switch gears. I mean, if you if you set this time, you have to know I'm gonna complete it in this time, I'm gonna do it in this time. And then when it's time to move on, you're gonna have to move on. And you're gonna have to be relentless with that on what goes on and also what comes off, right? Because if you put it on there, it must mean something to you. So you need to always value that and make sure that you take care of that. So I definitely understand. My wife says all the time, what are you doing? And I'm like, listen, listen, my if my day isn't like on fire five times a day, I it's just not a normal day. It's just not good enough, right? Right? It's just like, what are you what are you doing? You don't have enough emergencies going on, God, get out of here, you know. And uh I I gotta say that I appreciate that. I appreciate that view and I understand that passion. So as you're going through, you have all these other businesses. Now, very recently, you got away from the Amazon driving business. Now, I will say, if you guys don't understand this, rent-to-owned owners are very entrepreneurial. They expand a lot of different ways. We literally had Mark Conley on here, and he had more businesses than I've got fingers and toes. Um, what what drives you as you're doing all this? What what drives you to, you know, and your your passion about your business, your passion about your family. What what drives you to opening a another business and and really trying that out and saying, hey, this is gonna work or that's gonna work or whatever the case is? What what drives you to to try and expand?

SPEAKER_00 38:08

So I mean, I guess part of it's just dreaming, you know, you just dream for more. I've I've always like I'm never like satisfied, right? Um just I want more for and and not so much for me, you know. You mentioned it earlier, you know, just just to cover that again. You know, my family is my passion, my kids, my grandkids, that's what I worry about every day. And so I just want to do as much as I can to provide as much as possible for them and mainly opportunities, right? It's just everybody, you know, it's it's not so much of money, right? Sometimes it's just opportunities. Sometimes you need money to make to, you know, have those opportunities, but that's what it's more like for me. And then it's another thing, it's just trying to help other people. You know, you know, that Amazon business, you know, I loved it. I did it for five years, I survived it for five years. Um, the first three years were a heck of a fun ride. Um, it kind of reminded me a lot of RTO. It's just something different. You know, you're dealing with a lot of people, had a hundred and up to 140 drivers at one time on the street seven days a week. And um that that was fun. It was exciting, but um, I did lose the passion behind that. Um, and um because I felt like I was never gonna get over that uphill battle trying to help that many people. You're trying to help the drivers achieve and strive and get better. And that's that was what I was doing. And along the way, hey, just go deliver these packages, but learn some life lessons, and that became a tough challenge for me. And I feel like I um was losing the battle and I'd lost my passion for it. So I'm not gonna do something that I'm not passionate about. If I don't love it, it's eventually it's gonna show itself right. Um, and then the other thing I kind of I missed RTO. So um at that point in time, you know, when I was doing the the Amazon thing, I was spending a lot of time on that side and a little bit less time on this side, and I miss my people. You know, this is these guys are really my family here. So I I missed them. Um But um that's that's kind of like what drives me and like what it motivates me is for when I'm looking at other things, I'm looking for opportunities for other people, not you know, for my family and also other people.

Pete Shau 40:21

I'm curious, uh, you know, with as much passion as I say, I never really thought about the other side of it. And when it when it you know kind of lays out, it gets distilled. In your book, you're very passionate about what you do and you like and you drive, you get driven into what you have in front of you. What are passion killers and what can people in RTO go? That I probably should stay away from that because that's one on a Jerry's list of passion killers. What what what stops that kind of, you know, or or interferes with that feeling, and then you know you decide, you know what, now I am at a point where it's time for me to back away.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

I'm big on um lazy behaviors, I guess. Um is my thing. So little things bother me more than big things. Of course, I don't want anybody to go wreck my truck, but if somebody I always say if somebody wrecks a truck, I would like to think they didn't do it intentionally. It's an accident, right? As we always say, stuff happens. We say it the other way, but stuff happens. Um, but you know, when you leave trash in the truck, you leave trash in the floor, you didn't vacuum, you didn't empty trash cans. Um, you know, little things like that bother me. You didn't close a lease agreement properly because, you know, we we decided that, you know, my cell phone, my TikTok account, my my Facebook account was more important than spending an extra three, four minutes with the customer. Um, you know, we didn't file that paperwork uh away last night because, you know, we wanted to start closing the store at 555 instead of waiting until 605. Um so just little things like that, Pete, are probably the motivation killers for me because it just provides frustration. Um, that because that that's a can do, will do, won't do mindset and mentality. And um I don't I don't have a lot of patience for that because I'm the guy that you know that you know picks up every piece of trash. I park as far away as I can from the front door of every store that I go to, and I make the walk and I pick up every piece of trash that I can find along the way. Um so I'm just I I just don't have a lot of patience for um I guess just

Passion Killers And Lazy Behaviors

SPEAKER_00 42:24

lazy behaviors. That's probably the last deal for me.

Pete Shau 42:28

I tell you what, it is a killer, right? When you're when you're working your hardest and you see somebody over there in the corner, you're like, hey, you need to come help me out. What are you doing over there? You know what I mean? It's like, come on. Um, you know, talking about that and and stuff, now you're also on the board. You're on the a-pro board. So Jared was like, I've got six whole minutes, I'm gonna be on the APERL board. So with everything that's going on, with everything that's going on, how did you end up on the APRO board? They see the passion too, and they're like, you know what, we gotta have a passionate guy on the board. We got at least one of them, right? And we just put them on the board. So how did that work out? And what do you what is being on the board like? What has it afforded you to see or learn or to be a part of?

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Yeah, I I never thought about being on the April board and never thought I was worthy. Um, sometimes I still feel that way. But um, two words got me on there, got me to go for it, and that was Michael Bennett. Yeah, so that's a recurring thing. You hear that? It's a reoccurring thing.

Pete Shau 43:22

I'd have to call Mike and be like, I appreciate what you've done for Jerry.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Yeah, he can sell ice to an Eskimo for sure. Um, but um, so he convinced me, he's like, hey, there was a need, and felt like that I would be a good fit with my personality. So that kind of you know, it's kind of looked at it, it's like, all right, let me think about it. Thought about it for about a week or two, and I was like, okay, I'll make a run for it, you know, ran for it, got voted in. Um, I would say the biggest thing that I personally I feel selfish saying this, but I've gotten out of is being exposed to um, you know, the people that are on the board, you know, the different personalities, the different backgrounds, um You know, there's lawyers, guys from a legal perspective, there's business owners, there's business operators, um, there's just different people with different levels. And that exposure, I I feel like, you know, they may not feel like it, but they've made a major impact on me over the last couple of years, um, just to look at things differently. Um, because I'm a very slow thinker, very passionate. You know, that's what Dan Fisher always says. Hey, you know, I like about you because he's like, you're very, you know, you're very diligent with your responses and with your you're very thoughtful with before you speak. Um and that's but that that that's but it being exposed to those and listening to those conversations, being in those rooms, being at those dinners, being at, you know, at the

Joining The APRO Board

SPEAKER_00 44:46

table, talking about different things, breaking up into smaller groups. Um, it's it's just really been a very, very impactful um, I guess, journey being on that board over the last few years.

Pete Shau 44:58

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SPEAKER_00 45:47

Just for my career, I feel like it's kind of turned my career a little bit from a mindset of how I think. I think I think a little bigger now than I did before, by being exposed to um people that are operating bigger than my mindset.

Pete Shau 46:02

Let me ask you a question. You're on the board, you're starting to see all these different people. Give me one thing that you have learned from the board that you didn't learn from anywhere else that was impactful in how you do business and who you are as Jerry Marshall. That's a tough question, Pete. Hey, I know. That's I was thinking that's gonna be awesome. We're gonna get him. No, seriously, because I mean, you say a lot of great things about a lot of great people, but you're one of them. And you always play that down. And I and it's okay. I totally understand, but what have they done? Because you I know what you add to the board. I know if I asked somebody, they'd be like, Jerry, like you said, Jerry's a methodical guy. He's not gonna he's not gonna shoot to an answer, he's gonna think about what's going on, he's gonna see how it affects him, how it affects everybody else, and he's gonna give you an answer that really has meaning. So if they get that from from you, what do you get from them?

SPEAKER_00 46:48

So, I mean I guess understanding the industry as a whole, like didn't really know a lot about the history of the the industry. So when you're you know, not many of us,

WoW Brands Sponsor Message

SPEAKER_00 47:02

I'm sure, not many people, I I would venture to guess, haven't read through the whole history of the industry, which is the great thing about Charles's book, you know, kind of capsizes all of that and brings it together. But um just understanding like some of the fights and some of the battles, um, just for us to be able to operate today. Um, and then, you know, being a part of like with Trent and Mark, um, probably mainly those two guys and Ed Wynn before he left, and just understanding um some of those trials and tribulations that this industry has had to go through. And most of us today haven't had to fight through some of the, you know, New York or Solid haven't had to fight through um those battles just to be able to operate. Because I know what we do and I value what we do for the customer. Um, and I know I'm kind of going off on a tangent if you question me, but I mean, I would say that's probably the biggest thing I've gotten out of it. Just looking at the bigger picture of our industry and not just from a rent and collect per collections um person.

Industry History Changes Your Decisions

SPEAKER_00 48:05

So that that's probably the the the most important, most impactful thing that I've gotten from being on this board from those other guys is just really getting into the weeds and the details and understanding what our industry has been through um to to survive. I mean, you know.

Pete Shau 48:22

I tell you what, Jerry, I I've heard you loud and clear. There is gonna be an audio version of this book coming out. We actually just sealed that deal with Charles so that you won't have to read it, Jerry. You'll be able to listen to it. And you know, it is a hard read, but I'm gonna try my best to get through it so that come out pretty soon in a couple of months. You'll be able to drive on your way to work and listen to the history of the R2 Revolution and find out what that's like. That was part of uh it was a great part of the podcast to be able to part of that book and do some research for Charles and Ryan. They do an amazing job, uh, you know, Wild Brands in April being a huge part of the show. I am so glad that I get to be a part of that and what they're doing. So the audio book coming in a couple months, I will say that it will change how difficult it is to read that book to just being able to listen to it as you're giving those leadership values to your guys. Um, but you know, the reason I love this business, and it and and I I try to kind of articulate a little bit on the DC level when we were there. It's there's not many times that you have people who have had 40, 50 years of experience that can literally be alongside and do the same things as somebody who's been here for a year, somebody's been here for two years, and has no idea. Listen, guys, there this is RTO is like an onion, and you can you can pull it back from learning how to deliver the right way and then going into account management and going into sales. Those are very different spheres of life when it comes to our they're just so different, you know. Except, you know, sales and collections are usually like brothers and sisters. But, you know, the management part as you get into the managing and you're managing one store and then learning how to manage several stores. And, you know, there have been times back uh probably a couple years ago when I was working with buddies. I went back to a store that I had ran as a GM many, many moons ago. And uh one of the customers came in and they were like, Pete? And I'm like, oh my God, somebody remembers. Now I felt terrible because I didn't remember their name in return. It was so long. I was like, oh yeah, but the face, you never forget a face, right? So, you know, we we sat there and talked for 15 minutes. Those are the relationships that you build. Now, if I traded transactional and they walked in, I gave them something and they walked out, they probably wouldn't remember who I was. But we were talking about kids, we were talking about grandkids, we were talking about, hey man, how's that fridge doing? He's like, man, that thing died like two years ago. I got another one from over here, you know, he sold it to me, Mac sold it to me. And it was like, that's awesome. But you know, those relationships, whether it be from a multi-unit to a single unit to the customer, to having 45 years of experience all the way down to six months, this is a very relational business. This is something that, you know, we pass things down, whether it be knowledge, understanding, business, history, whatever. And the board plays a huge part in that. And that's why I'm glad that you're on the board, Jerry, because you add your little slice of heaven to that. You add your paradigm, your perspective to it. And I love that part. I gotta, you know, I gotta say that being available to meet you guys and ride around in DC was probably one of my most favorite times in DC because, you know, when do you get time to just be passionate and talk about business without having a timer on, right? So we get to Philomenas, we're all sitting there. Listen, if you ever been to Philomenas, it's about three sizes smaller than a shoebox. And we go in there and it is packed. They've been there for years and years and years, and it is probably some of the best food I've ever eaten. And we're all sitting around this very small table trying out a whole bunch of food and just talking about the business and and and talking about each other. And guys, if you haven't done that, you gotta do it because having passion in the business is also about getting to know the person next to you and getting to find out where you've been and where you're going. How do you affect the business? So, you know, I love that part about what you do and how you do it. So give me a little perspective. Where are we headed now in rent to own? What is, you know, what does it look like five years from now? Where is RTO headed in your mindset and your perspective and paradigm? Where is RTO headed in the next five years?

SPEAKER_00 52:24

I, you know, Pete, that that's probably the the the big question. Uh I'm very optimistic. I'm always like people were pessimistic during COVID. I I'm always gonna be optimistic about it. Um, I think there's a place for us, um, just because of what a lot of what we talked about, relationship, um, what we do, how we take care of people, how we care about people. I think there's still gonna be a place for us, but I think there's got, you know, gonna have to be some consistent evolution, right? With your mindset and how you think. You gotta think outside the box. It's kind of like we I was talking earlier, like we got to have people that are coachable, you know, from a business owner perspective, from a business model perspective, um, you have to be coachable, right? And be open-minded to change, right? So that's one of the things I preach that, you know, if if we're not open-minded, if we're not willing to evolve because of, hey, this costs money, or hey, this is gonna take too long, you know, if you keep waiting for it to be too long, then too long it's you're not gonna exist. But I think there's a place for us because there's as again, it's all about the people. As long as you're willing to teach, train, and mold the right people, inspire people so that we can keep this thing going, that's gonna be the biggest thing because it's it's about what we do. We don't, it doesn't matter what the name of your business is. I mean, look at the some of the names of some of these independents that are really successful. I mean, does that name even resonate anywhere else other than in in their markets? And more times not, it resonates because of who uh whoever's running that store, right? Um, so that's what matters. I think as long as we're willing to adjust and adapt to customer behaviors and still cater, find ways to cater

Where Rent To Own Goes Next

SPEAKER_00 54:09

to what their needs are, then um I I still see us thriving. Um now it it's some of us are probably gonna, you know, fade away or phase out. I do feel like that. We're already seeing some some condensing of some of the markets, but I think that's just because of the inability um to adapt and change um to what's necessary to uh serve our customers.

Pete Shau 54:35

Well, I can tell you right now, I do see that. I see a can a condensation, I see a condensing of stores. I think what we're gonna see in the next five years is you're gonna see uh uh you know a third less stores covering a third more area. So if you have two stores that are close together, I see them joining. Even up to up to five miles, I see them joining. And so you have one more consolidated area, but the the trucks are gonna cover more area than they have before. I see that happening only because there's a lot more things going on online, there's a lot more availability, and as we approach those scenarios where you can be more online, you can be more perspective as far as AI being involved, you might need less as far as a footprint, more of a part of an area that you cover. And I think I think I see a condensing down because I think we've expanded quite a bit. And uh I see us coming down a little bit, maybe having more employees in one store than two, you know, instead of having five and five, maybe you get one store with eight, but you're covering a little bit more area. So that's what I see and and what and what I think. Um I do want your perspective going in going to the last leg of this. You know, what how do you feel about the virtual rent-to-owned companies? They're starting to, you know, they're they're growing. The percentages are staggering, the dollar amounts are growing year after year after year. It used to kind of be the way we were when we first started. The year after year, we saw some growth. Well, that's happening in the virtual rent-to-owned space. Um, you're seeing a lot of different players. Assema through Rena Center is doing well. RentaCenter's had its bumps and bruises, but a SEMA's doing well, right? You got the progressive company that's doing the same thing. You've got a couple other ones, you know, you got like Qualify and all those guys, um, Snap and stuff. But where do you see that being in five years as in in comparison to where we are now?

SPEAKER_00 56:19

I mean, I I think ultimately, you know, as I say us evolving, I think we're gonna need some blend of some virtuality in our stores um in order to continue. And, you know, where you have, as you said, you stated, you know, we're willing to go. I remember back in the days, like, hey, I'm not going over 20 miles from my store, you know, and then it got to 30, and now it's like to 45. You know, I'll go anywhere. Um, you know, give me a credit card zone file, and um, I'll go anywhere. But um, so I I think the positive of those guys, though, I they're bringing, I think they're bringing customers into the education of rent to own, right? And understand the transaction. Whereas, you know, some people don't don't even realize that, hey, it's we do the same thing in the brick and mortar, you know, because there's still a stigma there of what we do, right? You really have to over like my friends don't make me so angry, or if I come across somebody and they say something bad about what we do or our prices or something like that, they're gonna get a full tutorial from me right away. If you want to light a firemen, then say something bad about what I do. Oh I love that. But the uh but I I feel like you know, part of what they are doing is educating more customers of the transaction. Um that's one positive we can look at it. But I think eventually when you say the five-year

Virtual Rent To Own And Hybrid Future

SPEAKER_00 57:42

mark, I think we're gonna have to evolve and have some blend of um virtual some hybrid versions.

Pete Shau 57:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:50

Yes, yes, sir.

Pete Shau 57:51

Yeah. So I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you three quick questions. Not that I'm trying to put you on the spot, just want to see what's going on before we close it down today. First one is one word to describe the RTO industry. Outstanding. You see you see how you did it again. He thought about it. He went, hold on, let me think about it. I love that idea.

SPEAKER_00 58:14

I was gonna say, I was gonna say passion, but I didn't want to keep overusing that word.

Pete Shau 58:19

No, it's okay. It's all good. It's all good. Second question book, podcast, or person that's influenced how you lead. I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

There's a guy, some people like I'm gonna say the name before Michael Bennett, but there was a guy named John Chikowski. He was my read my um divisional vice president when I was a regional at Rentway, and he promoted me, number one, and number two, he stuck with me. He taught me, he invested in me. Um, and I know you only asked for a one-word answer, but I need to feel like I need to explain that one. He um he invested in me, and that's why, you know, at after the first year being a regional man, you know, it's tough when you go from where you can control everything in one box and then you try to spread it amongst eight boxes, and you know, it's it's not there. You gotta, it takes time. And he was, he understood that and he explained to me. It's like you gotta stop puddle jumping. Don't feel like you gotta touch every store every week and you know, different little little things like that to get me to understand, make your visits, you know, count. But um, I'd say John Chikowski is probably the most impactful in my life as far as you know, because this I spent 20 more years in this business than I have uh doing anything else. Yeah.

Pete Shau 59:33

I'll tell you, Michael, we still love you, but John beat you out on that one. We love it. Listen, I and I totally understand. I I really do because it's it's not easy. One of the hardest changes that I ever made was going from single store to multi-unit. That that was unbelievably difficult, and and for all the reasons that you mentioned. Last question. Best piece of advice that you've ever received. You're gonna stub them. We're trying to stub them today.

Rapid Fire Answers And Closing

SPEAKER_00 59:59

Sure. Well, one was play with the bank's money and not yours.

Pete Shau 1:00:04

Um that's that is very true, sir.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:07

Um the other one is um, you know, Rome wasn't built overnight, so slow down. Right? Slow down mentally and um, you know, build build it the right way.

Pete Shau 1:00:19

I can definitely see that. You know, and there's a reason why the aqueduct is still standing. Uh they built it the right way because I've seen some of the things that we built today, not so good. Jerry Marshall, I'm so glad to have you on the show today. It's been amazing. Guys, I want to tell you if you want to stick keep content like this, you have got to be, you've got to be a sponsor. If you want to be a sponsor of this show, because we appreciate all of our sponsors, go to the website www.thertoshowpodcast.com. If you have any questions, hit me up. You can hit me up on all the social medias on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube where you're gonna see this. You can go online and hit me up at Pete at the RTO Showpodcast.com. That's my email, and you guys will be able to deal with everything that we have going on, including making comments and seeing. If you have anything to ask Jerry, we'll definitely direct it towards him. Jerry, been a great day. Listen, I know you got to go back to work. Unfortunately, you got so much going on, but thank you so much for being on the show. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

Yes, sir. No, thank you for having me. I I feel, you know, privileged to be on the the RTO show. I've always said, man, the RTO show, when I first saw it, I was like, I was jealous. Like, man, we always talked about that. Now somebody's beat us to the punch. And uh so I'm very I'm proud to call you a friend, man. You've you've really made an impact with this show um on our business and it's kind of like helped us share our love with each other and and inspire each other. So good job. Keep up the good work, Pete.

Pete Shau 1:01:38

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate having you on the show because you have been the guest. I do appreciate it so much. And I'm gonna tell you guys as always, get your collections low to get your sales high. Have a great one.