Partnerships Unraveled
The weekly podcast where we unravel the mysteries of partnerships and channel to help you become more successful.
Partnerships Unraveled
Donata Zabielskiene - Building a Channel from Scratch: Lessons from Nord Security
What happens when a leader from Coca-Cola and L’Oréal enters the world of B2B tech partnerships? Transformation.
In this episode of Partnerships Unraveled, we sit down with Donata Zabielskiene, the global channel leader at Nord Security, to explore her unconventional journey into the channel and how she scaled Nord’s partner program from zero to 10X growth.
Donata shares:
- Transferable skills from FMCG to IT - why business fundamentals matter more than industry experience
- How to build a channel from scratch - the first three priorities when launching a partner program
- The secret to great leadership in a growing channel team - shifting from hands-on execution to strategic direction
- Why vendors should rethink hiring - the case for bringing in talent from outside the IT world
- Partner marketing done right - beyond content, how vendors can truly support partners in generating demand
If you’re in the channel, this episode is a growth, leadership, and adaptation masterclass.
Connect with Donata: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donata-zabielskiene-a695b99/
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Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries about partnerships, and channel on a weekly basis. My name is Alex Whitford, I'm the VP of Revenue here at ChanX and this week I'm very excited to welcome our special guest Nata. How are you doing?
Speaker 1:Good, thank you, it's really a pleasure to be here. Nata, how are you doing? Good, thank you, it's really a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. We get loads of channel executives on the podcast, but typically you get a lot of people from the same background. I lovingly joke that about 70% of senior channel executives seem to start their career in distribution. However, you have had a bit of an interesting or different start than lots of channel executives. Maybe, if they're uninitiated, you could had a bit of an interesting or different start than lots of channel executives. Maybe, if they're uninitiated, you could take us through your current role and a little bit about where you've been before.
Speaker 1:Yes, sure, it's definitely different, probably so. Currently I'm leading the global team here in the Nord security almost for the two years and, as you know, nord security is best known for the North VPN but they actually were looking for the person to build up the channel. So that's how I came. But before that, before I joined, all my career was actually in the fast-moving consumer goods and fast-moving consumer sector. So there I worked in several different positions through the marketing sales in such companies as Coca-Cola or L'Oreal, so it really might look different, with a different experience and different knowledge, to where I landed at the moment.
Speaker 2:That's awesome to hear. I think lots of people would immediately assume that sort of B2B tech channels and Coca-Cola and L'Oreal are about as far apart as businesses can be. But I know you think a lot of it is extremely transferable. Talk me through what principles you've managed to carry over from your previous experience to the channel.
Speaker 1:Well, I will be really honest here, and in the very, very beginning I thought the same. At that time I didn't have any even IT expertise, not talking about cybersecurity knowledge, right so naturally I was raising the questions like what can I give to this company? Will I be able to lead the team and build up the business there? But at that time the manager who was hiring me and we are still working together saw my doubts, me and we are still working together saw my doubts and actually he said like I still remember those words that you just need to know how to build a business in general.
Speaker 1:And as my whole background was actually in the commercial side so I was really strong in the sales, marketing, the finance I thought, okay, maybe that's right and maybe I should give a chance to that one, If not now, then like never, probably. So, answering to the question, yes, I honestly believe that some of the competencies can be transferable and, despite the industries, you still everywhere need to build the relationships, you need to have the data-driven decisions, you need to be customer centric. So it's like really nothing about the specific, just knowing how to deal with the partners or with the end organizations or with the customers, so there is a lot of similarities there yeah, I, uh, it's great hearing you talk about this because people you know I love working in the channel.
Speaker 2:I quite literally have a podcast where we talk about channel. Um, it's pretty mandatory that I do. But I people often ask me why I enjoy the channel and part of it is the relationships that we build, but part of it is that I'm a business nerd at heart and part of building channels is talking about business to business, and so it really is the core fundaments of like, how do we build better unit economics? What's our go-to-market strategy? How do we drive alignment between sales and marketing more effectively? Um, it's really interesting to hear someone who has had an outside perspective sort of double down to say that, hey, that is the core of what we do as channel people.
Speaker 1:Clearly. Look, for example, if in the same Coca-Cola or the L'Oreal you want to be the customer centric, right, because you still are working through the distributors, you need to have the relationship with the retailers just to be in the better shelf position. So I would say in the channel and in the cyber security, those relationships are even more strategic and even more critical to have. And still you care from like both sides, for the partners and for the end organizations, right?
Speaker 2:so, yeah, totally now, um, I've got a comment. I'm slightly jealous because you've got a job that one day I hope to have, which is sort of being the founding channel leader of a company, right. I think that's a really interesting space to be. When I joined zoom, zoom was a sort of being the founding channel leader of a company, right. I think that's a really interesting space to be. When I joined Zoom, zoom was a sort of fraction of the total direct go-to-market and you're building this channel next to an already very established brand and I always found that it was very fascinating to sort of build that channel arm. That's something you've done for Nord Nord Security, going from zero now, a couple of years later, through 10x growth, which I think is fundamentally awesome and impressive. When you walked in day one, what were the first three things you knew you had to build and prioritize?
Speaker 1:uh well, uh, like, first, when I joined I need to mention that there were a few people already working and starting to build a channel, so it was mostly through the inbound. So my first action actually was to understand what we have so far, what kind of partners we have, what is the journey? Yeah, like having for the partners, what is the offering and so on, because I truly believe that if you want to reach some destination, first of all you need to understand where you're standing right now. Right, so so I started to understand, like understanding where we are right now, and then, during the first year, I would say the purpose was to find the way it works, like really meaning by what is our partner profile and value proposition. So we needed to figure out which partners are the best fit for the products that we're offering, how we can bring the value for them, what are the challenges, how we can help them building their business and reaching the end organizations. So that would be the, I would say, fundamental number one.
Speaker 1:And, of course, as the business was just starting, the channel mode in general. So we needed to recruit the new partners. So the focus and priority was on acquisitions. So we we needed to have the onboarding and we needed to be able to support the partners with the resources, with all the materials and so on. So that was the second big pillar that we worked through and the third one I would say.
Speaker 1:Last but not least, we really had to get the internal buy-in, because in general, the Nord security is built for the consumer brand, for the Nord VPN, so all the mindset in the company internally is for the end consumer. Also, with the B2B offering, we started with a direct business, so channel was totally different. So we needed to get this buy-in so that the company inside would be able to support and ensure that our partners can work efficiently, support them through the marketing activities, product development and support functions as such. So, yeah, I would say, focusing on those first steps, figuring out what makes your product valuable, then finding the right partners and setting up the strong support inside the company that was the main goals and the main steps that we started with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love your analysis and it certainly is, as far as I'm concerned, the correct answer. I think so often people sort of skip phase one and they go straight to partner recruitment. But until you deeply understand, here's what value we provide to the customer. Here's what value we provide to the customer. Here's what value we provide to the partner. Here's the support structure, here's the wraparound. You can cause so much damage in the market by bringing on partners before you are ready, and once you burn those bridges, those partners aren't coming back right. Once they have that bad experience, or the product doesn't work as they first thought, or they didn't understand the pricing structure, all of those programmatic things need to be in place so that you can start to scale effectively.
Speaker 1:Sure you don't have the second chance in the channel.
Speaker 2:I would say yeah, for sure, and I have made a few mistakes and learned extremely quickly, and sometimes extremely loudly, that, hey, you can't afford to make those mistakes. So sometimes it's better to go slow before you go fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you've gone from working with a couple of people and sort of figuring things out to leading a global channel team which is global both in terms of customer but also in terms of your team with dedicated resources. How has your leadership style evolved as the team has scaled off?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really good question. And, like, I was thinking, like, like how it really evolved, and I would say that in the probably in the first days when I started and, yeah, the team was small and we needed to figure out all the things, how it works I would say my leadership style was very hands-on, so I was deeply going myself into the processes. I wanted to know from scratch how it's built up, what we are doing, why we are doing. I was troubleshooting issues myself and also directly managing almost every single detail, so, but I think that at that time it was necessary and also it helped me to be, like, stronger in understanding how everything works. I still remember that one. If I need today, let's say so.
Speaker 1:But as the team grew, actually, and the scope expanded now globally, I really like realized that I need to shift my focus right and to think more strategically. So I needed to step out, I needed to step back maybe a bit and then to trust others to lead it. So we made a priority to hire strong and experienced managers for the key regions, like US and the MIA, so those people like really know the areas, they have expertise and they can bring the knowledge to the table now. So and I need that and I am trusting them. So now my role is less about fixing the processes myself, but rather setting the vision, probably enabling the team and I focus how to remove all the roadblocks for them and thinking on the long term, like like vision, how to grow all the partner ecosystem, where we can go, what's next and so on. So probably, yeah, from hands on to like really strategic thinking and strategic actions.
Speaker 2:So I know I've personally struggled with this and it's stories that I hear from sort of senior executives all the time. The time you know, the people that sort of make it to that level are so execution orientated. Right, that's how you get there. It's by getting lots done every single day, making an impact, driving things through, and then suddenly you have to delegate and slow down and spend more time thinking, and that transition I know I've really struggled with. Am I actually doing anything? It feels like I'm not doing anything and stuff's working. But is it me? How was that sort of? Did you find that an easy process to transition through? Was it comfortable?
Speaker 1:not really. Uh, I totally, totally agree with you. It's uh, it was the case that I was thinking, okay, maybe I can do better myself, but uh, you know, the first thing is to acknowledge it. So I was the case that I was thinking, ok, maybe I can do better myself, but you know, the first thing is to acknowledge it. So I was acknowledging it, that I know that I will do the best, but I need to step back and I need to trust the team because I will burn out. Like, really the agenda was huge and the ambitions were huge, so I really needed somebody I can rely. And then when you get those people in place that you can really trust, then it's easy.
Speaker 2:Now, one of the things that I'm sort of most obsessed about is hiring, and hiring really, really well. One of the things that I found particularly interesting about your story especially coming from a area outside of the channel from a background perspective is you put a couple of people in who had real like credibility and loads of experience from a channel perspective, but you also hired a whole bunch of people that had no channel experience. Given that the it industry pays so well and we're always looking for the best talent, should more companies look beyond the channel to hire and bring in that talent, especially given that you found so many of the experiences so transferable to your current go-to market?
Speaker 1:you know, my my answer would be it really depends, right, there are some positions that you definitely need to hire with the expertise within the channel or within some specific area, but if you're talking about the sales or marketing or even the leadership role, I would say definitely, yes, the companies, the vendors, even the partners or distributors, they can think like going outside the industry Because, as we discussed already, whether it's relationship building or it's strategic thinking or the team leadership or even the go-to-market expertise, those are the capabilities that you can really transfer industry to industry. It's not something exclusive right, that only channel has. So, yeah, definitely. We have some stories, even in the team, about how to bring the talent from outside, whether it's fmcg, finance or other sectors, and I would say it only brings additional energy, even creativity and sometimes even the new ways of thinking right. But of course, it's like the industry.
Speaker 1:Knowledge is important, and I'm not saying that it's otherwise, but you know, I think that people are capable to learn everything. So what matters is that the companies who are hiring would have the proper onboarding process. Hiring would have the proper onboarding process, you know, like teaching and giving a time to learn, while the person itself also supposed to be with the right mindset, and in the cybersecurity industry, you need to constantly learn new things.
Speaker 2:Yeah so.
Speaker 1:I would yeah, the diversity really really matters here, and I would say, that could be even the competitive advantage.
Speaker 2:That was exactly the point I wanted to make, right, I think, all of us in this ever competing world right. The sort of talk track I have with lots of our customers and people I advise for is hey guys, your product's great, but your competitor's product is also pretty good and the other competitor's product is also pretty good. And so what happens is your program and your personnel are the differentiator, it's not the product at some level, and if you keep hiring from the same pool, you're never going to get outsized returns because you're all looking in the same area for the same sort of talent and sometimes you have to take a bet and sometimes you have to take a risk. I think, as Nord did with you right, they picked someone completely out of the industry and said hey, go for it.
Speaker 2:That was allure I would say Exactly right, and you've produced wonderful and outsized returns, which I think is what we are all after. We're not really after. Hey, we grew 6%, aren't we great? We want to grow really, really fast. One of the areas that I think is challenging in the IT sector is, fundamentally, it's a very male-orientated sector Again same ideas, same background.
Speaker 2:What are some of the advice that you can give women who are considering entering the it space, and what can companies do to better sort of attract those different ideas and that different talent?
Speaker 1:well, that's, uh, that's really amazing question and I would say that the first thing is that women should give a chance for themselves, like apply, don't wait until you feel 100% ready, I would say. Or, you know, you don't need to tick every single box in the job description, just give a try, just apply. So I would say that and, as we discussed, many skills you can transfer and, uh, and I would say, the technical side can be learned over the time, but having the right mindset and skills, that makes a huge difference. And the oh for the companies, I would yeah, my suggestion maybe would be like, really about creating the environment where the diverse talents feel welcome in the first place. So it really starts with the hiring and even how you're building up the job description right, how the interview itself goes.
Speaker 1:Do you really are pushing all the expertise only from the specific industry or not? So, but on the other hand, it also doesn't stop here. Whenever the women are already in the company, they also need to be and need to have the path of growth, meaning that offering the mentorship and maybe leadership development from the company side. So, yeah, as we discussed, the diversity really matters and it's not only about the different industries, but as well inviting the women into this industry, and that could be a really competitive advantage, I would say, because it brings different perspectives right at the table.
Speaker 2:Correct. I think one of the things I sort of spend my life talking about in the channel world as a sort of VP of revenue, is that we treat SMB marketing the same way we treat enterprise marketing rather than the way we treat consumer marketing, which to me doesn't make sense, because consumer and SMB is really close and enterprise really far away and yet we all do it enterprise way and I fundamentally believe that's because we hire lots of channel people who've come from that enterprise space, so they all have the same idea and it doesn't make sense. And actually if we can sort of zoom out a little bit, hire people from different areas, we will understand much better the right sort of optimal pathway in terms of how companies, I think, can do more to attract that talent and make that talent feel safe and applying, share personal stories. I think the thing exactly, I think the thing that really bugs me about lots of corporate brands is they're so corporate they have nothing about the wonderful people that work within their company and the more personality that you can show and the different stories about the different backgrounds. That is what will make people want to be a part of your organization.
Speaker 2:Two, feel safe to apply. And three and this is the critical bit see themselves there. If they can see something about where they've come from in the company, it gives them the confidence that they can be there. So people like yourself sharing hey, I've come from a different background, I learned this. Here was the upside and here was the downside. There is some cost associated to having to learn all of that, but the company has won. Then suddenly we get more donators applying, going hey, I've seen this. This would be great.
Speaker 1:I think I can also do this so probably that's why I'm here as well, sharing my story excellent.
Speaker 2:So one of the things that I think is um again, we just talked about sort of smb marketing and consumer marketing. Obviously nord has an unbelievably strong uh brand in the direct world, but you also have dedicated channel marketing resources, which is not always the case at Vendors. In your view, what is the most effective way Vendors can support partners with marketing beyond just providing content?
Speaker 1:Right. Yes, we do have the channel marketing and I'm really really happy that we do. And actually it came also with this internal bet right Because, as I mentioned, whenever you want to understand your proposition or the ideal partner profile, you really need to dig in deeper to understanding what those partners are dealing with. So here we really needed our dedicated marketing to help us so that later on we could have the discussion with the partners. So I would say what the vendors can do is really have the discussions and the dialogues with their partners, not just one way directed, you know, material talk or just providing the content. And, let's be honest, it's still a lot about the materials and the content, because you need to train the partners, you need to give them, in the first place, the onboarding and the need, but when you understand and have the relationship and when you are talking and discussing, it can be tailored to their needs. So that's what the vendors can do.
Speaker 1:Or the most important thing is to share their knowledge. For example, nord has a huge marketing knowledge in terms of the direct sales for the B2B. So we have the cases when the partners are coming and saying, okay, we want this MDF to be used in that or that one way. So what we are doing, we are really consulting them. What kind of the event is more interesting for the end organizations? How they can recruit more end organizations like what are the trends right now?
Speaker 1:Maybe we can offer not only the content, other trends right now. Maybe we can offer not only the content but the stack of people who will do the trainings for them. Or we, for example, have the cases when they're coming and saying, oh, we want to use the MDF for the paid ads and we will use such keywords as the VPN or cybersecurity. They're heavily expensive. So we are like suggesting that maybe there is a smarter or more cost-effective way to attract new customers. So I would say the biggest thing, what every single and even bigger vendor can do, is really providing their knowledge and sharing it with the partners, because in the most cases, they don't have the marketing dedicated to the people or sometimes even not the resource.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this can sort of be summed up with meet the partner where they are, not where you want them to be, right, and I see so many vendors go yeah, we've created all these assets and I'm like why? Why was that the strategy? And we're like, well, that was quite easy for us to do because we just took the assets, we made them. Now they're available. But if I speak to and I know you guys play play a lot in the msp space most msps have no dedicated marketing resource so they have no ability to, like at scale, use lots of content. What they need is real like knowledge in how to use content, and that nuance there is fundamentally different. I think I'm assuming a large part of how you've grown so successfully Because, again, it's not about product, it's about program and personnel. And program differentiation is we can help you grow faster, not we provide assets right, and there's a fundamental difference in how you do that exactly and actually through our partner program.
Speaker 1:Still, we are like putting a lot of effort and resources for this, for this personal touch and every single partner still have the account manager awesome now.
Speaker 2:Cyber security is a great space to be one of the fastest growing spaces in technology, but also wildly competitive and wildly crowded. As Nord Security continues to scale its program, what do you see as the next sort of big challenge or opportunity in making Nord a top partner choice?
Speaker 1:Well, yes, that's a really wide question, and I can't agree more that the cybersecurity space is crowded. And when you think, then the MSPs are really feeling the pressure. They need to manage way too many vendors and chips and really the stack is huge. They often don't have the people or even the time right. And on top of that, from the other hand, it comes that you know the cyber threats are like evolving and advancing every single year. So MSPs not a year, even every single day. So MSPs have to stay up to date with the latest security solutions. So that's one of the biggest challenges. And then compliance. All the rules are changing Well, so it's not easy.
Speaker 1:It's a huge thing for them. So I would say that for the vendors and for us, the opportunity is here that to work as closely as possible with the partners and, you know, to work in the way that we could be the advisors, that we could help them, that we could guide them and support them. So like how right that we could help them, that we could guide them and support them. So like how right. So, from our side, what we already have done and what we are doing, making sure that our solutions are simple, so meaning simple to deploy, easy to manage, deploy, easy to manage. You know MSPs don't need any huge setup, extra complexity, to have those products.
Speaker 1:So that's one thing and also the other thing that Nord Security is not only about the one niche product, so we have several of them. So that's how we can make it easier for the partners when in one house we have the suite of the products like the threat intelligence, password manager, network security and access management tools. So it's in one house. And also, I would say, at the same time we are clear enough that we are not covering all the security measures. So we are doing the collapse with other vendors like SentinelOne or Proofpoint, and then offering the joint value to our partners. In this case, you know, covering the 12-sys controls, the special offering through Paxi. So that's how we're trying to bring the value. So easy then, several products in one place. If you don't cover everything, then partner with somebody and make it easier and help the partners to bring the value to the customers. I would say that would be the recipe, at least the opportunity in the upcoming year.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent agree there. I think again you've got a very forward looking view. I make this advice all the time, which is, first, meet the partner where the partner actually is. But the second is meet the customer where they are and the customer you know, sorry to tell you this doesn't care about nord or care about sentinel one or care about proof point. What they care about is all of it together, because that gives them the security that they need. And I think the quicker that brands can understand multi-vendor marketing and meeting the partner where they are, that story and that unified technology story, that's going to really deliver the value. And I'm really excited to see what brands like yourself central one and proof point are doing, because I think that really is forward looking and going to solve some of those key issues, which is exciting yeah, exactly, it's all about making it like the life eater for nsp and, as you said as well, uh, for the for the end organization perfect well here at partnerships unraveled.
Speaker 2:We also like an easy life, which is why we asked our current guest to recommend our next guest. And also, who did you have in mind?
Speaker 1:uh, so I would get in mind and sorry, I didn't notice this guy uh up front, so sorry for that, justin. Uh, apparently we met while he was still in the proof point and now he's in the CrowdStrike, so I would definitely recommend to meet him. He has great expertise in the channel and he's the expert on how to do and brew the beer as well. But that should be interesting.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, Justin, we're coming for you. Donata, thank you so much for sharing your story today.
Speaker 1:Thank you, it was a pleasure.