Partnerships Unraveled
The weekly podcast where we unravel the mysteries of partnerships and channel to help you become more successful.
Partnerships Unraveled
Stephanie Kee - The Rise of Women in Alliances
In this powerful and perspective-shifting episode of Partnerships Unraveled, we sit down with Stephanie Kee, co-founder of Women in Alliances, to explore the very real challenges, and untapped potential facing women in the partnerships and tech ecosystems.
Stephanie unpacks the catalyst behind Women in Alliances, now a global community of over 1,300 members, and the mission to forge meaningful networks and career advancement for women based on merit. With honesty and wit, she addresses uncomfortable truths around gender bias, explains why meritocracy and DEI must coexist, and shares how organizations can rethink hiring and leadership to drive true inclusion.
We also delve into Stephanie’s expertise in turning around struggling partnership programs. She explains why communication is often the root cause of failure, how to harness the VST (Vision, Skills, Trust) framework to revive value in alliances, and why partnerships remain one of the most human, irreplaceable parts of business, even in the age of AI.
What you will hear:
- Why only 3% of women choose tech as a first career and what it means for our industry
- How to build alliances rooted in merit while navigating the realities of DEI
- Proven tactics for diagnosing and revitalizing underperforming partnerships
- Why human connection, nuance, and follow-through will always outpace AI in this space
Whether you're building a partner strategy, advocating for equity in the workplace, or just looking to lead with more impact, this episode offers both challenge and inspiration.
Connect with Stephanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-kee/
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Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries about partnerships, and channel on a weekly basis. My name is Alex Whitford, I'm the VP of Revenue here at Chanext and this week I'm very excited to welcome our special guest, stephanie. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm fine. Thank you, Alex. Thank you so much for having me on your show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, excited to get into this one. Maybe, for the uninitiated, you could give us a little bit of an introduction about who you are and what you do.
Speaker 2:Well, absolutely. I wouldn't expect everyone to know who I am, so I'm Stephanie Key. I'm the co-founder of Women in Alliances. I was the chair last year of the organization, which had a huge growth spurt, which was fantastic, and it's under great control now, if you will, or even further growth under Kerry White, out of Canada.
Speaker 1:Awesome you actually founded Women in Alliances in 2020. What was the catalyst behind starting the organization?
Speaker 2:is in 2020. What was the catalyst behind starting the organization? That's an interesting one. It was a fun story actually.
Speaker 2:So, um, mike nevin, who we're gonna, you know, um, I'm sure I'll talk about again. Uh, who started alliance best practice, he had these great networking events in person in london and a lot of women would get together there and really notice that you know, they were not, they had knockout characteristics. They were really outgoing, very clever, really entrepreneurial, and we thought, you know what women of equal ability and personality traits aren't getting those senior roles that men are, and we wanted to make something. We wanted to change that for, you know, selfish reasons, quite frankly, and you know, in partnerships it's always important to network. It's just absolutely critical. So we wanted to at least create that advantage for us, and Women in Alliances has over 1300,300 members around properly around the world.
Speaker 2:You know, I know a lot of people are tired of hearing women moaning a bit about the workplace, but you know what? It's actually a real problem. I'm just going to go through some statistics here. Cio Magazine said the ratio of women to men in tech roles has declined in the last 35 years, but I think we all know that. Gabriella Schuster is an example from Microsoft. She has some fantastic statistics in around. So not fantastic, they're really heartbreaking statistics around this.
Speaker 2:Women in tech they don't see the global gender equality in the workplace until mid-century, next century. So we're quite far. I personally don't think it's ever going to happen. I am a class half full person, alex, I promise you, but I just don't. I think gender bias exists and you'll never change that. And you know what Forbes agrees with me. So they're saying that it's gender bias and also the lack of opportunities for women being the reason behind. Only 11% of executive roles are held by women, as I said from Forbes magazine and Tech she Can, and PwC found that 3% of women select tech as their first choice for a career. So that alone is a bit of a problem. Now we are talking about partnerships, but most of the partnership roles are in tech. Of course there are loads in other areas, there's no doubt, but in our certain area, that's pretty much the main industry that we work in.
Speaker 1:Just to dive in on two of those specific data points you touch on. 3% of women are choosing technology as a sort of career path. Did I catch that data point correctly?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So a survey done for young women. You know out the bat. What is it that you want to be? Only 3% are selecting tech, according to this survey, but PwC has its name stamped on it, so it's got to be pretty good.
Speaker 1:Do I, having not read the survey, do we have an understanding of why that decision is occurring?
Speaker 2:You know. Even if you did, I don't think one could fully understand that. It can just sometimes be media perception, et cetera. What influences people is these other societal external influences that we have that make these decisions, external influences that we have that make these decisions? You know, when you're young, does anyone ever say to you and the guidance counselor ever say you know, okay, you're going to have a mortgage to pay and cars are pretty expensive, and you know they don't actually go through the reality of, look, this is just the Joe job that you're going to have. So any dream that you have, let's just burst that, put that in the corner.
Speaker 1:That never happens with guidance counselors. No, no, I mean, I think about 70% of the sales leaders I know accidentally landed in it, which I think is also true of me, right, um, uh, yeah, interesting. And so 3%, uh, so I, by that proxy, I would make sense that 97%, if I'm getting my maths right of new entrants into tech. As I was saying, I've got a four-month-old at home, so my maths might be wrong. Keep me honest. So we're saying sort of 97% of entrants into the technology workforce would, by proxy, be men, but we're also seeing that there is a sort of… no, no, no men.
Speaker 2:But we're also seeing that there is a sort of oh no, no, no, it's just saying women would prefer to other careers. Have a career elsewhere than you know. It might be hospitality fine it might be entrepreneurial and starting their own business. It might be it's.
Speaker 1:It's not actual data in terms of anything, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah got it makes sense I know when we did the prep call, you emphasized that Women in Alliances is based on a meritocracy, rather than say being a DEI initiative. Dei is an interesting word at the moment. I think it's championed and challenged. What do you think is misunderstood about having a meritocracy and driving towards that outcome?
Speaker 2:Yes, I think we have to be really careful on this topic. It is an interesting one. I have sat in on a number of global conversations that became very heated just because the the phrase, if you will, of acronym, dei came up versus meritocracy, as you're saying. But it was interesting watching the different responses. And I think the different responses happens because it depends on what you're picking up, what kind of media you're picking up, in what country you're picking that up and what it entails.
Speaker 2:So my argument is Women in Alliances was started to help women network yes, we've talked about that but develop their skills and partnerships. We want to be the best of the best and we are saying we're not getting those opportunities. We are doing well. We want to be respected for our merit and brought in.
Speaker 2:However, if a role gets given to a woman because of a DEI initiative, awesome, no one's going to say no, we're going to take it Just like men do, all around the world, all the time they know a buddy, et cetera, et cetera, and that gendered bias exists and they just get a role, even though they're not that skilled, fine, there's no judgment there. However, again, got to be careful in this space. Forbes recently published an article where it mentioned that groups like Women in Alliances they mentioned Women in Alliances and other groups are very important for DEI. They're very important to help women have kind of work therapy or get through their career. And you've got to ask yourself why do they exist? These kinds of groups shouldn't really even exist but they do and there is a reason for it but foundationally what you're saying, because I think uh, I think it is.
Speaker 1:It's obviously always a complicated conversation, right, but I think foundation what we're saying is it's fundamentally wrong that businesses hire anyone based on anything outside of a pure meritocracy, or that you're saying that that that's foundational. Now, in the real world, that's never the case, right yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 2:There's always going to be a blend, because people naturally bring certain understandings to what they're doing and limitations. We're only human, we're not AI. Yet.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly being the operative word. How do you think businesses can go around setting a better structure to ensure they are hiring based on merit?
Speaker 2:I have no idea You're going to have to get an HR guest on next. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't know the answers.
Speaker 2:I've just got suggestions and criticisms.
Speaker 1:What would be a suggestion, then, in terms of how we can ensure that women are given the space and the ability to box on a fairground?
Speaker 2:that's. That really is just so difficult. It's, um, I think maybe there has to be an external review of a hiring of the candidates. You know the final candidates, when, and, and the thing is, everyone's so stretched for time, aren't they? I'm thinking of certain roles when I was up against other men that I knew were getting it because they were buddies, and you can see that bro culture still so strongly. It's up to the leaders of the companies to break that habit. That's the problem. While it's fine to have a couple of grown-ness moments on a team absolutely that exists. It's part of our culture, it's part of our work, but it shouldn't dominate it. Does that help? Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%, I think. From my side maybe I'm overly outcome orientated I sort of hope that my competitors hire based on growiness or based on not hiring people based on their merits, Like I really wish that that's the outcome, because from a competitive advantage perspective, I want to put the best people in the best positions, because that drives the best outcomes right. It seems scandalous sometimes to say that, but that's what wins.
Speaker 2:It breaks my heart every single time I look at it. It's business, we're hiring for business, we have metrics. It's about outcomes. It's not about getting on with a team. It's not about being aligned with everybody. It's not about having that environment. You, as an organization, have to have a professional environment and to provide that, you've got to make sure that you're hiring the best people, suitable, and the skill base can vary, can't it? It can be experience, it can be qualifications, it can be et cetera, et cetera. You've really got to look for the person who's most suited. I totally agree with that.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Maybe pivoting into partnerships, you've got a bit of a reputation in terms of turning around struggling partnership organizations Talk me through how you do that.
Speaker 2:You know it's not by design, it's by folly. So I seem to get hired into roles whether it's contractual or permanent, to try to help partnerships or programs that aren't really running well. I'd say the number one problem is communication, but you can break that down into different areas. So if I turn to, the biggest trend I find is that when something is sick or broken, I do get a lot of air quotes, don't I Sorry? When something is sick, that it is normally being handled, the partnerships normally be handled in a reactive way as opposed to proactive. So it's not being people are just doing. They're going through their checklist of what they should be doing every day or every week just to hit those metrics and what your boss says, etc. As opposed to looking at the partnership and saying what is the true value and potential in this company, what's its unique joint go-to market in the partnership? That's critical, but what's its true value that it can bring and how am I going to eke that out? And equally, on my side with my company, how am I going to get that out of my team to understand that as well? So there's a lot involved with communication. Also, how does my partner company want information? Who do I contact? Who are the right people to communicate with? Who's going to get something done? Do I change my communication depending on my audience? Of course you do.
Speaker 2:Effort is spilt and poured into this when I see sick partnerships that I've fortunately been able to turn around and improve. Some incredibly well, some a little bit, some I've sunsetted some, but it's rare. It's normally we've come to a mutual decision and it's, you know, that's just best for both parties. So in communication, as well as listening, it's listening to what people need and want and knowing what good looks like. I'm going to go to one perfect example. So I love working with GSIs. I just have a lot of experience working alongside them. I understand what they're looking for and you've got to get to the point. You've got to get to the point quickly. These are people under a lot of pressure hardly any time, and you've got to really strike and strike right at the right time, quickly to get that hook and to keep that attention. And that's the other piece is follow through. Keep on delivering. Keep on delivering. Do what you said, follow up, follow up continually and don't let too much time pass as long. I'm sorry, but I love I here you go.
Speaker 1:Obviously I love partnerships it's great to hear your passion. I know one of the things that you have sort of used from a framework perspective is mike nevin's vst methodology. Can you just talk us through the sort of key principles and why they're important?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, you know it's absolutely a very critical methodology, and so the BST acronym stands for Vision Skills Trust. I'd highly recommend anyone looks that up. Mike Nevin at Alliance Best Practice. He's also published two books. So why is it good?
Speaker 2:You know, winning over the sales team's not that difficult and the sales leader Normally partnerships people are. Sales team is not that difficult and the sales leader Normally partnerships people are seen as the tea and biscuits people and clearly you want to change that and show that you have some clout and gravitas. So that will come over time. That's working with the team and making sure you deliver professionally and you bring value to the team. So in applying the VST methodology, it's critical to have an external voice. That's industry recognized and has shown success again and again with some very big people who've had huge success.
Speaker 2:So it's really that it's not that it just works, it's that it's adaptable. So, and it gives you that gravitas, it gives you that it just works, it's that it's adaptable and it gives you that gravitas. It gives you that framework. Like I said, sorry, it is adaptable. It also works depending on the type of partnership you have, whether it's a tech partnership or a distribution or it doesn't matter what the partnership is. It doesn't matter what the partnership is because what you're doing is benchmarking your partnership and seeing where the holes are, why it's sick, what you can do together, identifying together what you can do to fix it.
Speaker 1:And that's why it's so impactful are safe from AI, which I think is a big statement, given maybe some of the fear or some of the vitriol that comes around what AI is going to do. Talk to me why you think humans are irreplaceable when it comes to partnerships.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what? Don't just listen to me. Go and do the research yourself, because there is so much information out there that backs this up. So recently, I have been invited to join an elite group called the I don't even know what it's called now. What is it called? Leaders women global women leaders in AI, and I'm very flattered to do so. Where I currently work, the AI program is amazing, but I also sit on a leadership council of a bleeding edge tech company in AI. It's not Gen AI, it's Causal AI. They have Nobel Prize winners supporting them. They've got Turing Prize winners recommending them as well and speaking at their conferences, etc. They speak the circuit. They go to the World Economic Forum. They speak at Davos. They speak at 10 Downing Street all the time they're there. So I'm fortunate to be able to see this and what's being advanced in this space and how it's moving forward.
Speaker 2:What you have to do is make sure you use AI to help you in what you're doing. Ai is fantastic for all of those repetitive things that you do in a day. World Economic Forum, future of Jobs Report 2023, maybe a bit updated says many clerical and secretarial roles are likely to decline because of AI. Sure, so go develop your skills somewhere else. What AI is never going to be good at is doing what humans do, even though causal AI is to teach robots to think like humans, it's just it's going to take a long time.
Speaker 2:So, get the finessing right. Get the human bit, the artistic bit, if you will, the personal bit. Here's a perfect example. I'm organizing event planning, a partner event right now for a man. I put a blurb together. I said to my colleague well, what about this for an advertising bit on it? Or, you know, registration page. He says, oh, I'm going to throw that into chat GPT. He does Comes back. I'm like, oh, it's better than mine.
Speaker 2:It was fuming, I was just fuming. So immediately I went right. I got to correct this. You know what I did and it made it so much better, so much richer. I took its vocabulary and twisted it to make it so much more active and more personal to the audience. Understand these things. It's these nuances that will keep us alive and keep us having jobs. Also, consultancy UK said look, loads of people are looking to learn programming. Of course that's going to be needed, but look out, there's an AI agent coming who can do the AI programming itself. So that's where you've got to be careful, but also, yeah, problem solving and communication skills is where you really want to nail it. Not being a good example of that myself right now, but put my teeth in, that's really where you've got to focus. And partnerships does that till the cows come home.
Speaker 1:One of the key and most challenging things of one, being human and two, being a partnerships leader is persuasiveness, and I think getting your C-suite aligned when you're trying to build a partner strategy can sometimes be the, I think, the most value but also the most complicated piece of partnerships. Why is it so important and why is it so difficult?
Speaker 2:yeah, it is a. It's a difficult one. I talked about winning over the sales leader, but that's easy because you can be, you're in contact with the sales leader and the c-suite kind of keeps the distance from partners. And again, I've seen that repetitively. If anyone looks at my CV, it's not necessarily where I am, it's where I've been. So why is it difficult?
Speaker 2:Mba programs really highlight the critical importance of working in an ecosystem. Uh, in the day, like you know, 20, 30 years ago. Now they are and in fact they use mike nevin's books, which is great. Um, it's it's. It's trying to bridge that gap and understand the importance of the ecosystem because there are hidden advantages. This is half of the problem.
Speaker 2:We've got loads of metrics and most of them are on closed deals right, so we can be recompensed financially. But partnerships brings that brand alignment in the market. You're speaking with the right people and the right companies in the market and you've got that fantastic brand alignment. You've got marketing that's actually focused, professional marketing that's focused in the right place. I'm not putting marketing down. That's important, you need that. But then partnership marketing's very, very powerful and it's so difficult to put a metric on it. It's really a judgment call on understanding the value that partners do bring, which is actually again going back to VST. That helps you understand that a little bit more and the analysis that you do of the partnerships, the partnerships. So that piece helps draw the value out a little bit better and helps you express it a little bit better. But it's that reason, it's because it's a judgment-based call.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, Stephanie. We call ourselves Partnerships Unraveled because we believe partnerships is really the future of how business goes to market, but also because we like to be nice and cheeky and ask our current guest to recommend our next guest. Do you have in mind?
Speaker 2:I have an absolute dynamo who was introduced to me at a London event. Her name is Daniel Simon. She is the director at DQ Labs partner sales director, and she is also the creator of the New York chapter of Women in Alliances co-creator, did a fantastic job and it's a really big powerhouse chapter there. So, yeah, you'll love speaking with her. She's got some great insight from the data world.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I'm excited to speak to Danielle and Stephanie. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences today.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me here.