Partnerships Unraveled
The weekly podcast where we unravel the mysteries of partnerships and channel to help you become more successful.
Partnerships Unraveled
Hayley McSpirit - Pax8 on Powering SMB Transformation
Live from Pax8 Beyond with Hayley McSpirit on the Future of Channel, AI, and the SMB Opportunity
In this high-energy live episode from Pax8 Beyond, we sit down with Hayley McSpirit, Global Head of Vendor Strategy and Operations at Pax8, to unpack the dual engine that’s powering the next era of channel growth: radical automation and deep community.
Hayley shares how Pax8 is balancing world-class automation with human connection to help vendors and partners scale, adapt, and thrive in a fast-evolving AI landscape. We dig into the agentic revolution, the shift from enterprise-led to SMB-first innovation, and what it really takes for vendors to create frictionless, impactful go-to-market strategies for MSPs.
In this episode, we explore:
- Why SMBs are best positioned to lead the AI revolution and how vendors should respond
- The new rules of vendor enablement in an era of AI, agents, and agile MSPs
- How Pax8 is helping partners minimize friction, scale efficiently, and still build real human trust
From co-building agents to reimagining product-market fit, this conversation is a must-listen for anyone shaping the future of channel partnerships.
Connect with Hayley: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hayley-mcspirit/
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Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries about partnerships, and channel on a weekly basis. My name's Alex Whitford, I'm the VP of Revenue here at Channext and this week I'm very excited to welcome our special guest Hayley. How are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing good. How are you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm excited to have us on. We've been speaking for quite a while and it's taken a little bit of time to get you on the podcast and I'm sorry. I flew all the way to denver to make it happen. Um, yeah, no. Maybe for the uninitiated, you could give us a little bit of an introduction about who you are and what you do absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:So thanks again for having me. I really appreciate. I'm so glad you came to beyond as well. It's awesome to have you, um, at our flagship event, which, uh, is just the most fun. You're gonna love the the main events.
Speaker 2:Um, but my my name is Hayley McSpirit. I run our global vendor strategy and operations at Pax8. What does that really mean? Um, that means I am at the front of creating. Where are we going next with our vendors in terms of what are those go-to-market strategies? What working with marketing on the product pricing, placement of the offers that we want to put out there that our vendors can create to support our MSPs. I do a lot of work with our hyperscalers as well in terms of what the strategic initiatives are that they're doing outside of the day-to-day business and how do we help make them successful in the MSP world. And then everything else in operations, kind of like everything the light touches, if you like, for vendors. That's everything from onboarding through ensuring that pricing and products show up great and also kind of just day-to-day keep the lights on work and then partnering finance on operational billing items. So a lot, a lot of different things.
Speaker 1:Well, unsurprisingly, given that I run a channel podcast, I'm a channel nerd, so your job sounds excellent. That sounds like a really good.
Speaker 2:No, two days are the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that I can imagine. We just got out of your keynote, which was, I've got to say, I'm immensely impressed by the level of energy. I think having 2,500 MSPs sat in one room losing their mind shows, I think, what great work you guys are doing in terms of building that engagement and strategy. What were some of the key talking points that you think our audience would like to hear?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So first off, I just I mean, the energy is awesome and Nick really does engage everyone and gets everybody excited and that's just. He's just our absolute cheerleader when it comes to the MSP ecosystem. And Scott is our visionary and when he stood up last year and talked about the robotic future in AI, we all sort of went, oh, that seems a little bit out there. And now we're like, wow, no, he was spot on the money and then brought it home to us this time. So you know, for me, um, there's still more to come.
Speaker 2:So, tuning into to the product, uh, information tomorrow and more around the partner piece, but with with scott and and nick's keynotes, I think you know we really focus on community. So, thinking about the things around the partner, first voyager, um alliance and how partners can be successful and kind of what, what are the, what's happening in that space, more information there. But also, how do we enable vendors to create the right solutions? There's the thinking around with ai is we don't want this change to happen to us. We want to be part of the change. And what can we, as pax8, do to enable msps, with our vendors, to do that? So there are be part of the change and what can we, as Pax8, do to enable MSPs, with our vendors, to do that? So there are a couple of things that came out of those.
Speaker 2:The keynote I really loved is how Scott framed up the ability of, you know, partners need to transform their business. We all need to transform but partners, you know, ultimately to touch that SMB customer. It's about how do you create the mechanisms to build agents and what does that look like in the new world Partner to partner, agent to agent models. The hyperscalers have recently launched so much new information around MCP protocols, around what's happening with Fabric, around Foundry and the Microsoft world, and then in the AWS world. You know it's extensive also. And then how do we think about helping those partners sell and also how they manage and support their own customers?
Speaker 2:And then, when I think about it from a vendor point of view, it's how do we in our team support those vendors to touch each of those points, that transformation, that buy, that build, that scale, sell and then that manage and what are the offers that they can have? So that was crucial for me. And then also just like leaning into Scott's message around, you know, taking away from the enterprise a little bit and like SMB first and this revolutionary attitude around the SMB being at the forefront of this agentic change. I think that's exciting and I think it could be true and it should be true and I think we are all placed here to be able to support that. So those are the key things for me. I mean I could go on. Do you want me to keep going?
Speaker 1:Well, I'd like to double click on one of the things because I'm sort of fascinated If you look at how technology has been adopted and all the sort of the Internet, the mobile phone all of it enterprise was always first because they had the money to make that investment. What our phone all of it enterprise was always first because they had the money to make that investment. What's really interesting is I think there's a fairly solid argument and some of the data actually indicates this that ai is moving from consumer up to enterprise rather than enterprise down. Um, which is sort of fascinating because we're all using everyone I know is just basically replaced googling things with chat, gpt and things. So so there there is the foot in the door. How do you think about that problem and how do you sort of incentivize this change in behavior within the MSP? It's a radical different go to market that is going to happen, yeah, and so it's sort of about, yeah, guiding partners through that.
Speaker 2:That that's a complicated problem to get your teeth into you know it is and I think, um, you know if I put I put my sort of non-vendor hat on for a moment and I just think about the problem at hand, in that this huge transformational change is is is happening now and it's just picking up speed. Um, I think where we are in society is actually in a good spot as well. You've got a lot of technology already installed in consumerism, right, we already use a lot of tools, and so I think that that's where SMBs are advantageous, because they can lean into that change faster, because they have a lower overhead of cost or a sunk set of costs that they've already invested in from their platforms. And also, you know, just think about changing a huge enterprise and moving that shift. It's going to take time and it's going to take pockets of people to really energize it, whereas in an SMB, those pockets are the business and you can just move at a faster pace.
Speaker 2:I think where we need to lean in even further and we are and part of the announcement was around how do we create that clear enablement journey for partners? How do we bring in and infuse those vendor solutions that are already grasping hold of this agentic model and series of offers and building solutions and get it into the hands of partners so that they can be ready first, like customer zero or customer one as Microsoft called it, which is absolutely true, right, and I think with that consumer SMB push, it's easier to be customer one and be able to move at a faster pace and realize that value, to be able to then land, deploy, learn. I think it's a little bit of a, dare I say, a fail fast opportunity for all of us. In other words, it's a trial, it's test, going to have to make some, um, some gut decisions because the speed is not going to slow down. So you know I'm going to have to go that way yeah, I, I.
Speaker 1:I think it's really interesting because, um, the rate of change in technology is fast, the rate of change in ai is unbelievable, and so there is failing forward right, it's not even failing fast which is, yeah, we're going to implement a change and then we understand in three months the technology is, and so there is failing forward right, it's not even failing fast which is that's a great way to think about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we're going to implement a change, and then we understand, in three months, the technology is going to be in a different place, which means we're going to implement a slightly different change. That's where I think SMBs and we are going to see it they are so much more agile that they can afford one to take a punt, because there's less of a sunk cost, but two, inevitably, when the technology shifts on again, they can move again faster than a large enterprise organization. Given that context, what would your message be to vendors in terms of how they should be prioritizing different segments? We often hear that vendors work enterprise down. I think AI would be an argument that you should actually reverse that strategy and focus on SMB.
Speaker 2:I mean, I love that, of course. I think that in an ideal world, for sure I would say for those vendors that are really looking at, well, I could actually answer this a couple of ways. If those vendors are really looking at, how do I now take this opportunity to go into SMB? Maybe I didn't, and so now I'm at that inflection point of I see the opportunity for my solutions and I can pivot. We at Pax8 can help you with that. That's the sweet spot there.
Speaker 2:If I was going to do a mini pitch of like, how do I help those vendors on that journey to tackle SMB and so they should I think that those vendors that are they're coming enterprise down still, they've got legacy to move down that stack.
Speaker 2:That's how we would want to help them. I think, though, if you've got vendors that are coming at this brand new or it's just like we're building something for the SMB, I think what I would be really mindful of is having the agility and the solution to move with the times as well, because we're talking about here around the change for the MSP. That's really on the deployment enablement. Maybe it's some build, but if I'm a vendor and I make this very rigid, I'm not going to be able to move as quickly. So having that agility in my solutions as well and being able to flex as this continues to build momentum, is important, especially when you're using, like, a Pax8 or another to help reach the masses right. We've got to kind of all move together, otherwise we're going to have some breakdowns in that value chain for the end customer.
Speaker 1:When we talk about program design or channel design, I sort of categorize it in. You have your consumer base if you're going after consumer, but then you have SMB. That to me is its unique channel go-to-market and then mid-market and enterprise. Mid-market is a diluted version but of the same go-to-market structure. One of the things that I really see vendors struggle with is they try and do a re-diluted version for SMB. The channel unit economics don't make sense. You have a virtual channel account manager who's managing 700 partners. What are some of some of the areas that you would advise a vendor who's really trying to crack the SMB working with a PAC, say, what are some of the things they can do to lean in and sort of galvanize that success?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love that and you're spot on. I mean just taking that enterprise and just keep breaking it down and essentially, if you like, removing the functionality or removing the pieces to fit the market does leave you in a position of not necessarily having the the most unique or the most solid value proposition. Because, hey, some smbs have enterprise scale problems. Right, there's not that just because they're small doesn't mean they don't have critical and there are lots of industries that indicate that. Um, you know, if I take non-profit for an example, you've got some tiny non-profits that have huge uh impacts, which are smbs. Um, so, you know, education could be another example there as well. Um, I think, for those, uh, those vendors I think one we're really looking at that kind of consulting, engagement for vendors to support them and how to think about it. So, rather than come at it and say yeah, we've ticked the box and we know this is the right size for SMB because we've just priced it differently and maybe we took out some features and functions, I mean let's say that's kind of how it can go is actually looking at it with a whole new lens of, okay, what's the right product, price, packaging, fit for the SMB and, in particular, if we're talking about the core of our market MSPs and making sure that we can truly align that proposition and really think 360 about how is it going to land, how complex is it to deploy, manage, maintain, you know, educate around.
Speaker 2:And price does matter, like let's not take that out out of the equation. But it's not the only thing. When I think about what makes smb unique, it's not just the price, it's, it's also about thinking about those needs. Um and again, having that ability for an msp to really bring it into their uh, if they're using a psa or an rmm, you know those those are really important tooling if they are managing multiple clients. It's all about scalability. So, making it easy, making it something that also can join an organization like Paxly with automation, manual components because I just took out the cool and sexy bits for enterprise, that's another piece that we work a lot on, so we would happily welcome any conversation about how do I make that fit. Come to this unique audience, let's not say downstream, this unique audience.
Speaker 1:Can I pause one sec?
Speaker 2:Can.
Speaker 1:I just my microphone. If you slightly, if you can put.
Speaker 2:Can you not hear me?
Speaker 1:No, you were just starting to. It's very directional, so if you're outside a field it'll just dim you. But don't worry, we and that was it was perfect. Um, okay, where I'd like to go if we can pause. And then I've got the question. Um, friction is a word I'm semi-obsessed with when it comes to the smb. Reason is I've worked a lot with big enterprise partners and when there is friction, there are people to get remove the friction there's a there's a marketing account manager who will build the plan.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter if you've forgotten your portal login, We'll just do it for you. When we talk about scale and we talk about accessing the SMB, that's through hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of partners Any amount of friction causes huge drop-offs in performance. How do you think about how friction, especially when we're trying to change how the go-to-market works when it comes to AI? What should vendors be looking to do to minimize the friction when it comes to servicing this market?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think when you're coming through, when you're coming through like a marketplace, like Pax8, we do a lot of that check to make sure that the friction is minimized. So that's where we going back to the point previously of looking at if we're going to bring on board your solutions, we're going to be able to manage them we look very much at how much can we automate to support, to minimize those friction points, because when those friction points do happen, you're right, it can create a whole downstream and ripple, you know, across ripple effect. I mean, one of the things that we're doing to minimize friction is also, you know, ai embedding in support agents, embedding in sales agents, embedding in both that's in the portal, but also within our sales teams as well, so that we can have that ongoing learning model to increase the ability to reduce oh, that question was asked of this and I have to go and scout between 25 people to find the answer or oh, yes, we saw that problem and train that LLM to continually improve how you can, specifically on the operational side, is where we want to see reduction in that friction. When it comes to support, we have done a lot of work in our support teams and they're also phenomenal individuals. But we also looked at using our global scale model to enhance our support.
Speaker 2:So we have 24 by 7 around the sun, whereas um and so for vendors, it's also making sure that you have an equivalent touch point or some way of being able to support that. So there's a little bit of if you're going to lean into smb, you can't just think of it, of I'm passing my problem off entirely, um, unless there's, like you know what, I just really want you to manage it all for me, pax 8, when I don't want to touch any of it. We do have an answer for that, but in the most part, there is a kind of a relationship to continually look at that value chain and continually dialing into where could those friction points happen and what can we do to either embed AI or create a process that would then reduce that. So that's always how we look at things, always how we kind of constantly look at the problem is can we automate it? Can we minimize human touch? Um, can we use ai and and also, can how can we leverage our global infrastructure as well?
Speaker 1:and so you're eating your own dog food because you're implementing ai. Can you talk to me? I think a lot of our audience struggles to understand some of the productivity differences when I think they think, oh yeah, I asked ChatGPT to make a marketing plan and it was pretty good, so I'm happy. When we talk about agentics, we're talking about another factor of productivity. What can you talk to us about the performance differences that you expect some of these implementations to be able to deliver?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so some of the pieces that we have a whole AI center of excellence or AI team that's being stood up inside of Pax8, and there's a couple of mechanisms that are happening now where we're feeding into that team around ideas to one, improve our own productivity and efficiency and leverage AI, but also how we think about the business processes that we could use agent to agent models and having autonomous agents run complete tasks. And so when we look at our marketplace and we look at the flows there, where I see an opportunity and something that we're sort of talking about holistically is how do we infuse those agent to agent models and completely autonomous tasks in that whole flow? How can I create it so that I don't have to have necessarily a human touch point in that experience. Much of what we do today is very automated, like our provisioning is very quick, like that's the idea You've got to serve the SMB quickly, you've got to make sure that things are running efficiently, there's not that downtime, but the agent piece is really, you know, is taking that one step further.
Speaker 2:But also, when I think about that opportunity for partners is, how do I create something that I could then deploy to the marketplace? I could then sell back to that whole model before to someone else. That then allows me to be an ISV as well. I can also create a product and sell it, and so we're very much seeing that opportunity to create a product and sell it, and so we're very much seeing that opportunity to create. How do we help those partners create their own agents and their own agentic models to put into the pac-state markets that they could then become an isv and deliver that service to to someone else in the ecosystem and have that kind of ever going, which is a cycle?
Speaker 1:so we are building an ai and ever increasing automated and digital approach to servicing the SMB.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And yet there's 2,500 partners who've flown in to see people face-to-face.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Why is that human connection seemingly more important now than it has been?
Speaker 2:You know what. That's such an interesting point and you're right, I think. Look, I love where this is going, from a business efficiency, from a cost reduction, from just a technological advancement, but we all experience COVID and we all experience what it was like to not have the human interaction, especially when business. You know relationships are important. I may stand corrected, but I don't think a robot or an agent can take away a human relationship and interaction. That then builds community, and community is what Pac State also thrives in and partners thrive in that community and I don't think that that, in terms of sharing, in terms of learning, I don't think I don't believe that the agents will take that away from the human connection and I think that that's still critically important.
Speaker 1:As to what makes MSP communities and Pax8 super special, yeah, I think it's sort of fascinating because I think if I were to describe Pax8 I'd be the most automation forward aggregator that I've seen, but also the most community orientated, and they sort of feel like they feel like they should contradict, yeah, yeah yeah, they feel like they do, but there is obviously huge power in symbiotic relationship between the two of them? Yeah, yeah, I think you're.
Speaker 2:I think you're right. It's an interesting. It's an interesting kind of um, you know, reflection of how, how to look at the pax8 world, but is it's a special uniqueness of relationship and community and sharing and enablement. And then, yeah, underpinned by this hunger to improve efficiency and to really scale, and I think it's about bringing enterprise-grade technology to everyone and not just having it be. You know, oh, I'm Fortune 500 and therefore I obviously invest in all these things. It's like no everybody can access.
Speaker 1:And maybe one last one for you then, when we manage to bring that enterprise value down to the SMB, what do you see happening in terms of that SMB performance? My hope is that we're going to see really the backbone of the economy continue to thrive and be able to compete with, maybe, people that are much bigger and better.
Speaker 2:I think so, I think so. I mean and Scott alluded to this as well in his keynote around, you know, there might be a one man, you know, enterprise business in terms of the impact and the scale that it could have. I would love to see the tables turn on that. I really would. I think that that's you know. Also, macroeconomically, you're looking at how not just the US but other countries and this sort of shift pattern in what's going on. I think this is also another point where technology is enabling the SMB to thrive, because the macroeconomics of the enterprise are struggling and there's kind of this tussle that it's the SMBs for the taking, really, but it's being able to feel confident and moving into that space and investing in that space and knowing that time and money is strapped as well. So but I think it's, yeah, I think it's definitely, you know, maybe we can come the next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say the future is bright for SMB.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Hayley, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.