Partnerships Unraveled
The weekly podcast where we unravel the mysteries of partnerships and channel to help you become more successful.
Partnerships Unraveled
Kirsten MacGregor - From Product to Partnership: Delinea's MSP bet
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In this episode of Partnerships Unraveled, we sit down with Kirsten MacGregor, Global Head of Managed Service Providers at Delinea. Coming to Delinea after nearly eight years building the managed service provider motion at Riverbed and a career spanning networking, digital experience, and identity security, Kirsten brings a sharp perspective on building a program that fits how these partners actually operate.
Kirsten opens with a framework she has carried across her career: people, process, and platform. Platform architecture is not a technical detail, she explains, but the foundation of the whole service model. Cloud-native design matters because the operational efficiency managed service providers need has to be built in from the start. Process has to reflect that these providers carry real service accountability, so vendor support, enablement, and escalation paths have to be designed with that in mind. And the human aspect anchors everything. The people a vendor puts in front of partners are what turn a program into a genuine partnership.
That framework is what Delinea now has the chance to build on from scratch. Because the company hasn't run a true managed service provider program before, Kirsten is designing the commercial structure, support tiers, enablement, and pricing around how these partners actually operate. She also reframes the shift from reseller to managed service provider as a move from margin-pressured product sales to outcome-based partnerships. Identity has become the primary attack surface for enterprises, and continuous delivery through MSPs is a natural fit for the deeper relationships that model creates.
Kirsten closes on where the strongest managed service providers will land in the next three to five years: leading with outcomes, governing the full identity estate across human, machine, and AI, and treating zero standing privilege as the baseline. It's a moment worth building for.
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Welcome And Guest Introduction
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to Partnerships Unravel, the podcast where we dive deep into the mysteries and the secrets of partnerships and the channel. My name is Michel. I'm head of marketing at Chanax and I'll be your host for today. I'm really happy to chat with Kirsten McGregor, global head of MSP at Delinea. Super excited to hear your thoughts today, Kirsten. How are you doing?
SPEAKER_00I am doing very well, and thank you for having me on today. How's everything with you?
SPEAKER_01I am doing great. Barring some interesting technical issues, I'm really looking forward to this conversation. You know, it happens. It's our life every single day.
Kirsten’s Path Into MSP Leadership
SPEAKER_01Um, but uh uh moving away from that topic, could you tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and your role at Delinea?
SPEAKER_00Of course. So for those listening, hello, I'm Kirsten McGregor. I lead the managed service provider program at Delinea, which means that I'm responsible for building the framework and relationships that really allow our MSPs to deliver identity security as a managed service to their customers. Prior to Delinea, I spent about seven and a half, eight years at Riverbed Technology, where I similarly built out their managed service motion. And then prior to that, I was at Juniper Networks. So I've had quite a nice spread across networking, digital experience, and debt, now cybersecurity over the years.
SPEAKER_01I love it. Thanks for that intro. It immediately sparks a question in my mind. You spent quite a while at Riverbed developing these MSP motions, then you joined Delinea. I would assume, and correct me if I'm wrong, but that that this means that you've come into Delinea with some specific perspectives and lessons learned when it comes to building these MSP programs. So I'm curious, what lessons have most directly influenced how you're approaching your role with MSPs at Delinea right now?
People Process Platform For MSP Scale
SPEAKER_00Yeah, definitely. And I think that the main lessons can can really be distilled down into people, process, and platform. And by that I mean, you know, platform architecture is not a technical detail, it's the foundation of which the whole service model kind of sits. I've spent enormous energy in the past trying to make the managed delivery experience work around a product architecture that wasn't originally designed with MSPs in mind. And you know, you can compensate for that with process and tooling to a point, but the overhead it creates for not only the vendor, but the MSP as well, can be considerable and affect how efficiently they can scale. So the moral there that I really learned is you know, not every product can be delivered as a service. And uh, what makes Delinea different that I really looked out for is that it was built, you know, cloud native on the ground up, not lifted and shifted from on-prem. It means the scale and operational efficiency that MSPs need is baked into the architecture, not just you know, bolted on afterwards. Um, then regards to process, so you know, MSPs they carry risk in a way that resellers just don't. Um, and program design has to reflect that. So, you know, MSPs deliver a managed service, they are not just routing a sale, they're taking on that service accountability. So if something goes wrong in a customer environment, they're the ones that are getting that call at midnight. So uh the vendor needs to be a genuine backstop partner, not just a product provider. Um and that means investing in MSP-specific support tiers, clear escalation paths, and enablement that goes well beyond a basic certification course. And then I'd say the third is pretty simple, but often overlooked these days, and then that's the human aspect. The quality of the people that you're putting in front of MSPs really does matter. This industry is still fundamentally built on human relationships, and MSPs, just like resellers, you know, they have a lot of choice. So, you know, they're gonna stay with vendors that where they trust the people that they work with day to day and when they feel generally supported. So, um, you know, I've seen many vendors pull resources away from channel and operations and throw money at sales when numbers are down, which again was was a really kind of interesting um and exciting part of joining Delinea because they they really increased their channel headcount by 33% last year, and and they're really heavily investing in partner relationships, which is uh which is something that's really exciting. You know, MSP relationships are true partnerships, they're not transactional. So you need people that are going to go to battle for your partners, not uh uh just as they would for their own company. Um, not physically, of course.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well sometimes physically.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, you can tell by my name, I am Scottish, you know, old ski and do is never uh far from me.
SPEAKER_01I love it. No, I think you I think you raised some really good points, and uh you mentioned those three Ps. I I sometimes have to laugh because I think I've heard three P's, five P's, four Ps, five T's, all these models, but they all basically boil down to the same thing, and it's so valuable basically mapping out the interaction between the human, the process, and the product itself. But I I'd like to add one P to that which aligns with what you just mentioned, and that's purpose in the sense of being fit for purpose. Because I think, and and please, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Currently, tech is changing so incredibly quickly that people are bolting on all kinds of stuff onto their platforms. They're adding things to their ecosystem and the ecosystem where the platform wasn't necessarily built for that from the ground up, which means you'll run into issues later down the road. So being fit for purpose, having that true kind of MSP-focused approach built into your architecture makes such a huge difference.
Fit For Purpose Architecture Matters
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And and you know, you see it as well in terms of um a lot of companies saying, you know, they're building for MSPs, they they want MSPs to kind of work with them, but they're really, in reality, retrofitting their current partner model and just kind of bolting on some good buzzwords, shall we say, uh to entice MSPs to work with them, um, which again makes the opportunity that I have at Delinea so interesting because it's a blank slate. You know, we've worked with MSPs in the past, but we've never had a true MSP model. And that blank sheet is genuinely rare, um, and I'm very conscious of not wasting it. What it does allow us to do is really design the program around how MSPs operate, not how a traditional channel program expects them to operate. Um, the way I simplify is, you know, Delinea gets the scale it wants, MSPs get the flexibility they want, and customers get the choice that they want as well. You know, this this can't be a one-sided construct. It needs to be a value exchange all the way through. And building from scratch means that we can actually engineer that rather than inherit a model that was never designed for it in mind.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that
From Margin Pressure To Outcome Value
SPEAKER_01makes a lot of sense. And and I'd want to uh kind of focus in on the human aspect here specifically before we dive a little bit more into the kind of ecosystem, tech alliances, how do you build out these platforms to uh to apply effectively to MSP through sales? I'd like to understand a little bit more about as you're building these MSP programs at Delinea, you mentioned in an earlier conversation that you that you like the fact that we're moving away from the kind of race to the bottom margin game that used to be kind of prevalent in the channel space. And you mentioned that, you know, working with MSPs really means creating value together. But how do you make sure that in your programs, that human touch, those partner relationships are built into your programs?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sure. And you know, based on our last conversation, you know, this is something that I am very passionate about. Um, I spent about 10 years working at vendors, managing the reseller side of the channel. And what I saw was a model that's under enormous structural pressure. You're essentially competing on price for a product that every other reseller can also access. And the differentiation conversation therefore becomes very thin, very quickly. Um, the customers know it, you know. So margin erodes, the relationships become transactional, close a deal, move on. There's not much loyalty built into that model because there's not much value that's created that, broadly speaking, you know, the customer couldn't necessarily find elsewhere. So what shifted my thinking was seeing a different category of partner entirely, which of course is our lovely MSPs, um, who had built genuine service practices around specific disciplines. These firms were is where the customer was not just buying a product, they were buying an outcome. And I know that sounds like a tagline or a buzzword, but I'm talking about kind of ongoing coverage, expertise, and accountability. And because that outcome requires continuous delivery, the relationship is then in turn continuous as well. Um, yes, it means customers can't walk away easily, but that's not because they're locked in contractually. It's because the MSP becomes genuinely embedded in how that they operate. And I think, you know, identity security specifically is one of the best examples of that discipline that fits this model perfectly. You know, PAM is not a product that you deploy or forget. Managed probability access is a continuous operational discipline. When you consider, you know, like it's discovery, policy enforcement, access reviews, I'm on the spot now, incident response, compliance evidence, you know, the list goes on. Um and all of that requires ongoing human expertise and platform attention. So if you're delivering that as a managed service properly, the customer is getting enormous value and the relationship has therefore real depth. And this is the antithesis of the race to the bottom. You know, you're competing on capability and trust, not just on price. And that that's really kind of where I wanted to move away from and into that more value-based discussions.
SPEAKER_01Um, you said something interesting just now. You said the whole thing of moving from like a product to an outcome that that sounds buzzwordy or like slogan y. And I used to agree with that. But there's there's a shift I'm seeing in the market, which I find incredibly valuable, is that those things that used to be marketing slogans, the things that used to be nonsense, are now actually lived and breathed in the industry. And I think speaking to MSPs, which I also do outside of this outside of this podcast, I feel they are living that as well. And and I was recently discussing with an MSP about the difference moving from volume to value, which I think is basically the the same concept. You know, you're not a bakery, you know, you're building something, and lock-in doesn't matter if everyone's happy. I think that's kind of the point. Um, I think if you look at how complex the identity space just is in general, I think a lot of organizations want to be able to have a trusted partner in this game that can provide them with solutions that actually address an ever-changing
Identity Becomes The Main Attack Surface
SPEAKER_01market. When we look at the identity threat landscape, what shifts are you seeing that like have changed the game from like even two, three years ago, like at Riverbed, moving from Riverbed to Delinea, what changes are you seeing?
SPEAKER_00I think the reality and the honest answer is identity has now become the primary attack surface, and that changes things. Um there's more to consider than just endpoints and network perimeters now. You know, attacks attackers aren't just hacking in, they're logging in, they're targeting credentials, privileges, and access paths. Because if you can steal or compromise the right identity, you can bypass most of the other security investments that an organization make. And it's all over the news, you know, we're we're seeing it and breathing it every day. And the progress, the problem, sorry, has become dramatically harder to contain because the identity estate is exploded. We need to consider service accounts, APIs, AI agents, and cloud workloads. So most organizations genuinely don't have visibility over all of it, let alone consistent control. And unlike the old model where you do a periodic access review, call it dumb, risk is changing in real time now. So access needs to be continuously monitored. And then when you layer on top of that the complexity of hybrid and multi-cloud, you start to understand why smaller teams just can't keep up. So the increased headcount and skills that's required can be quite significant. And identity threats don't operate on a schedule. You need that 24-7 visibility and response capability, which you know is exactly what MSPs are built to deliver because this becomes a managed service conversation, not just a software sale.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I fully agree. And I think a part of the challenge in like this this rapidly changing landscape is also that even people who feel um in the know when it comes to these trends, I feel they're getting lost. And I'll just use myself as an example, just because I'd rather make myself look dumb than anybody else. But I used to be quite proud that I understood a lot of the tech fundamentals in the companies I worked for. So I understood the processes behind the product or the platform. Even when I was in AI before AI was cool, the first thing I did was run me through how machine learning actually works in our models, right? I thought that was interesting. But it's gotten to a point where it's really, really difficult to have even a baseline level of understanding of how these products are evolving because a part of it is basically unmanaged evolution, right? It's evolving itself. And I think that's such an important angle to take when you're an organization. You you kind of need to understand, like it's almost impossible to keep up with the threat anymore. So having MSPs that are smart and having companies like Delinea that also partner with other organizations and other software products that basically fill the gaps that you can't is so critical moving forward.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I I 100% agree. Totally.
Building An MSP-First Program Model
SPEAKER_01There's another angle to this, um, and you you touched on it a little bit, but I'd like to dive into this a little bit more deeply, which is there's a lot of businesses in the cybersecurity space, in the hardware space, basically all over the place, that say that they're now MSP first or they're they're building their playbooks with their MSPs in mind, but they're often just trying to copy-paste an old partner model onto this new paradigm. It sounds like at Delinea, you're now in the process of basically further developing this MSP approach. You mentioned a blank sheet approach. But what specifics can you then use to build on that, to take like a modern approach and leave your assumptions at the door, so to speak?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. And I think there's there's a few different areas, but you know, one kind of good example is say the commercial structure. So traditional partner programs, uh, price per end customer engagement, and that cost can fluctuate based on the customer size, deal registrations, teaming, you know, all of these traditional um program benefits and things can actually influence the price point. Um, partners traditionally buy customer licenses, add their margin, sell it on. But MSPs don't build their business that way. They aggregate customers and they're self-sufficient, so they need predictable pricing to be agile. So that's something that I've taken into consideration when kind of building a program from scratch. And we're able to build a program pricing that actually works on that aggregated volume-based model so that it can benefit MSPs directly. And that's just, you know, one dimension. There are nuances that run through support, billing, legal contracts, and the technology functionality as well that we've touched on. That means MSPs need their own fit-for-purpose program that will genuinely differ from a standard program model.
SPEAKER_01Right. And are there any specifics in ways that you differentiate Delinea as a vendor to these MSPs as well, then?
SPEAKER_00So, yeah, and I think again, because we're in the build process of this program, what I'm doing at the moment is looking at where in the market um do we have kind of like the program. What are other vendors still kind of getting wrong? I guess. Um, and when are they kind of treating MSPs as just another channel tier rather than that true partnership that we've touched on as well. Um, and I'd say the most fundamental mistake is you know, failing to understand the MSPs' economics are different from a reseller's. And, you know, I touched on it earlier, but very generally speaking, resellers buy, sell with an uplift, move on. Their exposure to the product kind of ends at that point of sale. Whereas MSPs take on the service delivery accountability, meaning that their margin is not just affected by the purchase price of a platform, it's affected by every hour that their team spends managing it, every support ticket that they have to raise, and every workaround that they may have to build. So, you know, the functionality, pricing, and support are key pillars that need to be specifically designed with MSPs in mind. And that's something that we're taking very seriously at Delinea. And then something else that can often be a second thought, I guess, is enablement. I've seen vendors that have, you know, partner portals that direct every partner, whether that's reseller, MSP integrator, distributor, to the same certification path with the same content library. But for an MSP, you know, that's just not enough. They need run books and playbooks for common operational scenarios, and they need training that addresses how to manage the platform at scale across multiple customer tenants and not just how to deploy it for a single customer. So YC is like the vendors who invest in MSP-specific enablement, and of course, coupled with MSPs who are sort of reciprocating that investment, and these are the ones that are genuinely productive and build those loyal partnerships which we're striving for.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I really appreciate that perspective. And I think it's also important to note, and I know I'm preaching to the choir when we look at our audience here, but that, you know, MSPs also need to trust the vendors, right? Because they're they're not just taking, they're they're not just getting an opportunity to build out services and build relationships within customers. They also, of course, need to shoulder the burden of certain challenges arising, right? And understanding your vendor landscape and knowing what works and having that mutual trust really does help, especially moving away from the reseller model into a locked-in, I'm using error quotes here, a locked-in model where the there's there's more complex ecosystem plays that are that are being pushed into the market, right? It's not as easy to just turn a switch. So I feel that trust has to be both ways.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and that's really fundamental to to uh building a program. And it goes back to the first kind of question you asked and and bringing that human aspect into it because you know, we are still very much in a human-oriented uh industry. Yes, AI is getting huge, but uh I don't think it'll take over just yet.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I completely agree. And and I have this discussion with anybody who wants to listen, which is fewer and fewer people, by the way, that I feel like AI has an incredible value and it can really bring enormous change and enormous uh acceleration to various types of processes, but not to everything. And we need to remember that. Like we we shouldn't offload our critical thinking to models, and that's why the human-in-the-loop process is is so incredibly important, especially in cybersecurity, but also in these types of relationships, because otherwise, I think, and this is my personal opinion, we're going to run into problems like a year or two down the line, and we will have no idea how they arose. Because we we've just let models do their own thing and figure things out, but we haven't actually looked at the uh the the why and how behind it. So I think maintaining that control, right, and building those relationships and understanding how to pivot is is absolutely critical in this market.
Future MSP Winners And Zero Standing Privilege
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01One last question for me. If you look ahead, put on your future goggles, what do you think the uh the most successful MSPs in the identity security space will have in common three to five years from now?
SPEAKER_00So not surprising, I would say, based on my other answers, but I I think the common shift will be from managing tools to delivering outcomes. This uh changes the conversation from we manage your PAM platform to you know, we reduce your identity risk, we keep you audit ready, and we make sure your people and your systems can access what they need when they need securely without refriction. And that reframe kind of changes how you price sell and how you even measure success. I think the other thing is scope. So MSPs who lead the market in three to five years, you know, they all be governing the full identity estate, considering human, machine, and AI, which we just mentioned. Um and they'll be doing it continuously at machine speed, governing access at the point of execution, rather than setting policies and hoping that they hold. Um, which kind of brings me to the last point, which is you know, zero standing privilege, which right now is more of a leading edge aspiration for most organizations, I would say. But I think in three to five years, um, when I look into my crystal ball, I believe that it will be the expected baseline. You know, auditors will expect compliance frameworks will require it and customers will start to demand it. Um, and the MSPs who have built their practice around just-in-time access will be in the right position, while those who haven't will be retrofitting. Um, and of course, I've got to finish with a shameless plug because Delinea has just acquired strong DM specifically to address that point, um, which does mean, you know, it it's the perfect timing for building out this program as well, because it just means that our MSP partners will have exactly the platform that they need to lead that shift rather than chasing it and being on that back foot.
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, I I appreciate that. And you know what? We'll just plan uh a second podcast recording in three years. Yes. And we'll just have a checklist to see what held through.
SPEAKER_00We'll look at it, hold me to it.
Next Guest Nomination And Closing Thoughts
SPEAKER_01I love it. Hey, we we always ask our guests to nominate the next guest to appear on this podcast. Who do you think we should have next?
SPEAKER_00Ooh, um, I'd probably say, you know, I've I've worked with um a distributor called Infinigate, and prior to that they were they were Nubius um in the UK. I've worked with them in some kind of capacity for over 10 years, and I think, you know, what they're doing in the distribution space is really quite creative, and they're, you know, they're they're kind of breaking the mold a little bit. So I would say really anyone at Infinigate would be a uh would be a good shout um for that. Uh if I have to call on someone, I would potentially say my fellow Scotsman, Gordon Lyon, he heads up their UK sales team, and I think he would be a great shout for this.
SPEAKER_01Amazing. I can't wait to reach out to him. Um hey, to wrap this up, do you have any final insights, tips, or tricks that you'd like to share with the audience?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's just a really interesting time for tech. It's uh things are moving at a million miles per hour. Um for for you know, partners, they're trying to standardize on technology. Customers are you know at a bit of a loss and wondering what to what to do, where to look. So I think really just to bring it back to that human act aspect of you know, finding people and technology that you can trust is uh is a great place to start.
SPEAKER_01So we have a Dutch expression which is you can put that on a tile and hang it on your wall. I love it. Hey Kirsten, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and taking the time to speak with me. And uh you, dear listeners, thanks for tuning in and see you in the next episode. Thanks, Kirsten. Thank you.