Keep’em Healthy with Jami Podcast

#15 Acupuncture: What is Acupuncture and how can it help me?

• Jami • Season 1 • Episode 15

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Listen to this episode as Heather McGinniss, a licensed acupuncturist, explains it all about acupuncture! Check out Heather McGinniss' Bio on her website: https://www.thewaveacupuncture.net/about
Or find Heather on her instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/thewaveacupuncture/

First 25 minutes of the Episode focus on: 
What is Acupuncture? 
How can acupuncture aid in your healing? 
What is East Asian medicine? 
What are the common misconceptions?

Second 25 minutes focus on: Listeners! Your questions are finally answered about Acupuncture and fertility, chronic pain, mental health, sleep, allergies, and kids!

1:20 Meet Heather McGinnis (Licensed Acupuncturist)

7:20 Acupuncture defined and how it works?

9:20 How far do the needles go into your skin?

10:42 Chinese medicine, Integrative medicine, Holistic medicine- are they one in the same?

13:31 What are the differences between East Asian medicine and conventional Western medicine?

16:52 Are ailments exacerbated because our lifestyles have pulled us indoors and on screens?

19:17 Common misconceptions about Acupuncture debunked!!

23:38 "We are the primary healers in our life" mindset

25:27 Listener questions answered!

25:27 Is Acupuncture covered by insurance?

27:48 Anxiety and depression: How Acupuncture treats mental illness

28:57 Empirical Points

30:32 Acupuncture and Fertility


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You do you, stay well, and... Keep'em Healthy!

[00:11] Speaker A: Hi, everyone. This is your host, Jami on the Keep'em Healthy podcast, where I like to cover relevant and interesting health topics to help you stay informed and keep yourself, your partner, and your kids healthy. Today's topic is acupuncture. I have Heather McGinnis, a licensed acupuncturist on my show, help break it down and define acupuncture, its health benefits, and how it is an option for aiding fertility, anxiety, depression, sleep, chronic pain, allergies, and even we discuss options for kids. This interview left my brain all up and happy. Heather does a great job answering the questions that have been circling in my brain for some time. So let's get to it. Time to meet Heather McGinnis.

[01:09] Speaker B: Hi, Heather. Welcome to the Keep Them Healthy podcast. We're going to speak about acupuncture, and I'm really excited because this has been on my radar for years, and I'm really hoping that today we can clarify just some information and learn a lot about what you do, Heather. So welcome.

[01:26] Speaker C: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[01:28] Speaker B: So I guess we'll begin by just kind of telling your story. Heather, how did you go to being Heather, the acupuncturist?

[01:36] Speaker C: So I guess my story starts in 2003. I was working a desk job in property management, and I was having just some mysterious stress related medical issues that my Western medical doctor was sending me for test after test after test. And when I say that, I mean it was a year long odyssey of visits to kidney specialists and scans. And I finally got fed up and I googled acupuncture, and I found an acupuncturist that was walking distance from my job. And I just went in kind of off the cuff, hoping that I had tried everything else and let's see if this worked. I remember him putting the first needle in, and so the sensation of a needle being inserted. What we're looking for is acupuncturists is called the sensation of de chi, which means the arrival of chi. And I felt that so strongly in my body that it was like, oh, I felt like a bell had been wrong.

[02:53] Speaker B: Yeah, like game changer. Here we go. Yeah.

[02:55] Speaker C: And so I remember after the treatment, I went back to work and I immediately googled acupuncture schools in the area, and at the time, there were none in Pennsylvania. The closest one was a three hour commute from Philly, where I was living. And it was a full time program, so I would have had to quit my job and either commute or move to attend. So that got shelved for a while, and then I went for a series of treatments, and he got me back to feeling like myself and feeling really good, and I didn't have to have any more tests done. And there was actually nothing wrong with my kidneys, as my Western doctor had thought. And then years go by and I got a viral episode of Vertigo, and we were living in the suburbs of Philadelphia at the time. And when you have vertigo driving, it's difficult, obviously, because you're just dizzy even walking to the bathroom. So I googled acupuncturists near me, and it turns out there was a school right around the corner that had a clinic. So I went to the Wan Institute of Graduate Studies student clinic and got treated for my vertigo and once again had that same experience of like, what in the world am I doing with my life? Why am I not doing this? Looked at their program, realized again it was full time and I would have to quit my job and still wasn't time to do that yet.

[04:40] Speaker B: That's a hard transition to go all in a new career like that. So I give you credit for continuing your path and the fact that things change, right? There was nothing for 3 hours, and then a couple of years later, there's something in your neighborhood.

[05:00] Speaker C: It was wild. And then of course, Colin and I, we moved for a little bit to Hawaii. So that gave me the opportunity to finally quit that job. We say I had golden handcuffs because it paid very well. I loved all of my coworkers. It was a really easy job. It was boring and soul sucking. So we lived in Maui for a year and a half. And while we were there, I did a yoga teacher training. And that really kind of reinforced this idea that I belong in energy medicine. And when we decided to move back to the East Coast, I just told Colin, my husband, I'm going to do it, I'm applying to acupuncture school. So in order to get into acupuncture school, you have to have this is in Pennsylvania and this is my school in particular. Not all have the same requirements, but my school required a bachelor's degree, science prerequisites that I had from my undergraduate, but they were over ten years old because I'm a very old person.

[06:04] Speaker B: Stop. And they're not. But that's interesting. It's interesting and also really cool that you do need a background, an education background, to become an acupuncture. It's like, that's something that maybe I wouldn't have known. I kind of would assume that it's just a school that you could show up almost like hair and makeup. Like you don't need certain education background.

[06:27] Speaker A: So that's interesting.

[06:28] Speaker B: That's something I know.

[06:29] Speaker C: It's a three year Master's program. It's one of the longest Masters degrees in the United States as far as I know. So we have over 2000 hours of education. More if you study Chinese herbal medicine, and I think I have over 800 hours of clinical training. So that was when we went into student clinic, when we started learning how to needle each other. So for three years, full time, my brain was basically focused only on learning acupuncture, only on learning East Asian medicine. Nothing else could be in there.

[07:06] Speaker B: But you have to completely immerse and live it, eat it, breathe it, all the things. So define acupuncture for me. Like, what are you doing with those needles? You mentioned chi, but if you can give us kind of a general definition of what acupuncture is, go for it.

[07:26] Speaker C: That's easy. Acupuncture is the insertion of single use phyla form needles into specific points on the body to stimulate the body's innate healing response. If you look at the character for acupuncture in Chinese, it's actually a character that means acupuncture and moxobustin. And moxobustian is an ancillary therapy. It's the burning of an herb called mugwort, or the scientific name would be Artemisia vulgaris. So that's a dried herb that is sometimes used to reinforce the effect of an acupuncture needle. So we can burn mugwar on a point? On a needle in the area of a point, it comes in stick form. It comes in this, like, fluffy it kind of looks like cotton candy. And we kind of smush it together and make what are called moxa threads. And we put a little burn cream on your skin, and we light that up. So acupuncture is not just needles. It's fire. Yes, fire. Not all the time.

[08:37] Speaker B: Not all the time.

[08:39] Speaker C: And a lot of times, what you may find is that here in the west, moxobustion is not always practiced by every acupuncturist because our leases specifically forbid it, because it does have an odor. It it smells like really nice incense in some cases. And in other cases, it smells like really terrible marijuana. So it depends on the quality of the product that you're using.

[09:00] Speaker B: Yeah, that that matters. So so when you're saying you're inserting a needle, how far is it going into? Is it hitting the bloodstream? Is it just hitting the top dermis layers? Like, how deep do these needles go?

[09:12] Speaker C: It really depends.

[09:13] Speaker B: Okay.

[09:14] Speaker C: There's a saying in acupuncture that bone treats bone, nerve treats nerve, tendon treats tendon. Each point that we learn has a specified depth of insertion based on the anatomy of the point. So, for instance, points on the chest that are located on or near the rib cage, we don't insert them very deeply because what's underneath your ribs, your lungs. So if you go too deep, you puncture a lung, you do what's called a pneumocaurax, and that's a big no no in acupuncture fold.

[09:48] Speaker B: Right. So there's different insertion points and as.

[09:51] Speaker C: Far as where you go when we learn all the points so our first year in acupuncture school, we have a class called point location, and we learn over 400 points. We have to memorize where they are on the body, and we also have to memorize the angle and depth of insertion for all of those points, because when we graduate, we take a board examination that's going to ask us, for this point, what's the angle in depth of insertion?

[10:20] Speaker B: Okay, that's a lot. No wonder you spent every moment of your life during that time. I mean, that's 400. Wow. So really fast, if you can just clarify this with Activuncture school, you can also do the Chinese medicine route to Chinese medicine. Are these all the same names? Eastern medicine, holistic medicine, integrative medicine. These have been a lot of terms thrown around recently. Are they all Chinese medicine or no.

[10:48] Speaker C: What I would say is that I like to say East Asian medicine because acupuncture itself is practiced in almost every East Asian country. So I call it East Asian Medicine. I'm specifically trained in traditional Chinese medicine and in five element constitutional acupuncture. We can get to those in a little bit. Acupuncture, east Asian medicine is a form of integrative medicine, the form of holistic medicine in that we look at our patients as a full human being, body, mind and spirit. Right. You're not your arm that hurts, your arm that hurts, but why does your arm hurt? And we're going to talk about we're going to get to the root of the problem. That's always our goal is to get to the root of what's causing the pain in your body or the problem in your body or the dysfunction or the imbalance in your body. So in that way, we're holistic, we're integrative in that we learn a ton of Western biomedicine in Pennsylvania. You don't have to, but I did take a biomedicine board examination in order to get what's called diplomat status with our licensing organization. And that just means that all of the stuff I studied in school in terms of Western anatomy and physiology, I was tested on and found to be proficient in so that I can communicate effectively with Western healthcare providers.

[12:19] Speaker B: See, that's great. I think a lot of people, especially who live in the United States, we have only been exposed to Western medicine. And now for me, that mindset of the holistic, that's a whole new mindset for me and a whole new perspective that I found to really help me and help certain things that I've had to deal with in my past and in my present. But to be able for you to say, like, listen, I am able to explain to you in the Western ways and have contacts with your doctors that you've already went to and given your story, they have your history, that you can communicate with them and then also give them an alternative route. It just gives them access to more routes to help themselves. And which is why I love that. I think that's really key in getting people to come see you. Heather too, because there is an unsureness about needles sticking in your body. And that's like the most simplistic, obviously, version of acupuncture with that definition. And then also now that since we're talking about Eastern and Western or East Asian and Western, can you kind of give us we'll start with what's different, I guess, about your practice being Eastern medicine versus conventional.

[13:37] Speaker C: Well, I would say the very first thing to remember is that the medicine we practice comes out of the culture that we live in. And I'm a cisgendered white woman here in America, so I grew up in American educational institutions. I have American ways of thinking and being. And East Asian medicine comes from Asia and they have a completely different cultural mindset. So that's the first difference, right? So it's almost like you have to learn Asian history a little bit, or more than a little bit, honestly. Really? You should learn a lot of Asian history when you're an East Asian medical practitioner. But you do have to learn about the history and the culture that the medicine comes from so that you can understand how it works. So in terms of East Asian medicine, if you think about China, it's about 3000 years old, the medicine. And it evolves out of a culture that first believes that illness comes from evil spirits invading the body, right? So it's like a shamanistic medicine and it eventually evolves into this medicine that's more linked to nature, right? We're humans, we live on the Earth. We should live in harmony with nature. Our bodies should be where the Earth is. So for right now, for instance, we are in winter. It is a time of rest. The Earth is resting, so we should be resting. So when I see patients in the wintertime and they're telling me how tired they are and they want to sleep late and they want to go to bed early, I'm like, yes, you absolutely should. That's what you're supposed to be doing if you live in a place that has seasonality in the way that we have it. So that's one difference, right? The other difference is that because it now exists in America and the American medical model has subspecialization. Like you go to your cardiologist, you go to your urologist, you go to a gynecologist. So acupuncture is developing those types of subspecialties. But originally it really wasn't. It's like you go to your acupuncturist for everything, right? Like you walk in the door and you're like, I got this going on. And the acupuncture is like, alright, sit down, let's talk about it, we'll figure it out. So in terms of how I practice right now, I'm more of a general practitioner. I will see you for basically anything that I feel I'm capable of treating.

[16:15] Speaker B: Okay, that's interesting because you mentioned something about how we are humans and we are on this Earth and that we should be working with nature. And I do feel like we're in this time period where every new technology or every new creation has been to push us away from nature.

[16:36] Speaker C: Right?

[16:37] Speaker B: It's like you don't have to do that anymore because now you can do that in your own home and it's to keep you inside. And looking at a screen, I wonder, and I'm sure you maybe have seen this and agree. But a lot of the ailments and things are exacerbated with this age of technology and the pulling away from nature and keeping people indoors and isolated in that type of mindset.

[17:02] Speaker A: Would you agree?

[17:03] Speaker B: How do you feel about that?

[17:04] Speaker C: I absolutely agree. The very first thing is if you're not out in the sunshine, your body is not going to make vitamin D, right? And we need vitamin D for our immune system to function properly. So by becoming this completely indoor species, it's like, okay, all of a sudden now people are becoming vitamin D deficient and you have to supplement with Vitamin D and that affects your mental health and yada, yada, yada. So that's one way in which moving away from being outside to inside, we're not farmers anymore, we're sitting at a computer, has affected health. But then there is just like physical posture, how people sit at their desks. The majority of what I treat is chronic pain related to how people work and use their bodies. So I see a lot of neck pain, a lot of shoulder pain, a lot of low back pain, and in most cases it's because they sit at a desk for eight to 10 hours a day and they're in what my yoga teacher would call hunch asana. Right? Yeah. It is hunched over, neck forward. And that's pulling and putting stress on bones that didn't evolve to support your body in that way. So we evolved to be upright people outside working in nature. Our eyes are in the front of our head so that we can see forward, we can see predators coming at us. We have ears on the side so we can hear things from all around us and we don't need that anymore in the life that we live. But evolution hasn't quite caught up to that yet.

[18:37] Speaker B: Right? Think about and just the lights and the overstimulation of all the technology and our bodies have not caught up. And so talk about the mental health out of it and that and then you're talking about the posture with everyone needs to survive and make money, so we have to sit at our computers and integrate that in our lives. And so now you're seeing the posture issues. So this all is so clearly making sense, right? So my next question for you is what are some common misconceptions about acupuncture that you've learned to debunk on a regular basis? Like the person calling you asking you questions? What's a common thing where you're like, oh, most people say this, that's not true, or this is true. Is there any certain themes? Yeah, go ahead.

[19:26] Speaker C: The very first one is that you only need one treatment and you're going to be fixed. Acupuncture is considered a cumulative therapy, so that means you have to come for more than one time because your response will build up over time as your body adjusts to the needles. So that's the first thing I had a call from actually, I see a pain specialist, and he is a doctor who is licensed to be an acupuncturist, but he does not perform it because he said that most of his patients expect immediate results. So he refers out. So he referred a patient to me, and in our conversation, the patient wanted me to tell them that they only needed one treatment to be better. And I had to tell them that it would take at least six to eight treatments before we could definitively know whether acupuncture was the right modality for them. So that's the first misconception that I'm always dealing with, with people who have never had acupuncture. This idea that, yes, you have to come back. You can't just disappear, and you may need to come on a weekly basis. You may need to come twice a week, you may need to come every other week. It really depends on what you're seeing me for, how you're feeling, how your body responds. What do you call it? It's teamwork, basically. I'm not going to fix you. You're going to fix yourself. I'm kind of just an energetic conduit to teach your body how to heal itself, if that makes sense. We'll sometimes explain to new people that the needles are sort of like those little flags on a golf course to identify the location where the healing needs to happen, right? Like, we're going to aim here. We're going to tell the body, like, hey, this is the spot that needs attention.

[21:20] Speaker B: That makes sense.

[21:21] Speaker C: The second thing would be about paying. People are terrified of needles in our culture. So about 30 acupuncture needles fit into the tip of a hypodermic needle, I think is the statistic that the American Society of Acupuncturists use. Their hair thin. Right? And what you feel on needle insertion, like, you may feel a small pinch, and then the needle will go in, and you should then feel a sensation that I mentioned earlier. We call it ditchi, which is the arrival of chi. And it can feel heavy or it can feel hot, or maybe like, not a nervy tingling, but just kind of an energetic tingling is the best way to describe it. And then if there's any indication that you're in any kind of discomfort if I hit a nerve, because that's always a possibility. People's anatomy, like anatomy textbooks will show you where nerves are located, but everybody's body is different. So sometimes your nerve may be more superficial than another person's nerve if you have a very thin build or you have a bigger build. So like I said, there's constant feedback. I'm always asking patients, when I put a needle in, did you feel that? Does that feel okay? What are you experiencing right now? I need you to tell me during the treatment if you're comfortable. Those are the two main things that I deal with on a regular basis. Just the idea that you need to come back and I'm not here to hurt you. Right.

[22:56] Speaker B: And I think that's also something a little different about the East Asian medicine is that when you get to the root cause and a lot of times it's changing a food, diet, lifestyle, and none of those things are going to fix you the first time you eat a green salad or the first time. But like in the Western medicine, a lot of times you take the pill and you get instant relief. So it's a hard transition and mindset to go from, well, I'm looking for that instant change, and you're telling me you're not going to get that. But there's something to be said about teaching your body how to heal and that long term effect versus having to rely on a pill.

[23:35] Speaker C: The other part of it is that the idea that you actually have to be a participant in your own health in a way that Western medicine doesn't expect. Like, you go to the doctor, they give you your prescription for your pill and you take your pill and that's pretty much it. Where acupuncture or East Asian medicine, when I learned it in school, we learned this like eight spoke wheel, and the first five spokes were all things you do on your own, I can run through them. So it's meditation, exercise, diet, astrology, like East Asian medicine and Chinese medicine in particular, you do your natal birth chart and you make decisions based on the animals. We're going into the year that we're entering later this month. So that's astrology and then feng shui, how you set up the energy and the space that you live in. So those are all things you do yourself. And then when you get to the point where your health is compromised in some way, that's when you go to your healer, and your healer is going to do things like massage, herbal medicine, and acupuncture. So your acupuncturist in Asia is like the last person you see. You've tried all of this other stuff on your own. You've taken responsibility for your own health with what you eat and how you live. And when that's not working, you go to your acupuncturist.

[24:56] Speaker B: I love that perspective and that mindset in regards to self healing because a lot of people don't feel confident in their expertise of themselves and they don't take time to think about, well, what's off in my life and what feels wrong that I know I should change, but I just haven't. And they don't take stock in that because they just believe that the experts in air quotes are going to save them versus like, we really are the experts, and it starts with us. So I love that. Thank you, Heather. And speaking of other experts, I'm going to start diving into some questions from my listeners that I reached out to them and they came back and are so excited about you, Heather, and learning more. So the first thing is kind of a little bit more business oriented, but they wanted to know about insurance. Is your practice covered by insurance? Why or why not?

[25:47] Speaker C: So, personally, I do not accept insurance. You can accept insurance for acupuncture. And there are acupuncturists who do accept insurance limits what they'll reimburse for with acupuncture. And in most cases, it's for chronic pain syndromes. So because I want to have a wide array of things to treat in my practice and not just pain, I choose not to accept insurance. However, I can provide supervillains to my patients to submit to their insurance at the end of the year if they so desire. I happen to keep my rates low enough that I don't think any of my patients have ever asked me to do that. That's just part of my personal philosophy. In terms of health care, I see it as an act of social justice because we don't live in a culture that kind of values our health. So for me, it's important that I make my medicine accessible to as many people as possible, even if it means I make less money. I'm not in this for the money. I'm in this to kind of, like, spread the joy right, and heal.

[26:56] Speaker B: And you're in it to help heal. Thank you.

[27:00] Speaker C: Thank you. The other thing is there are acupunctures who accept insurance covers just, like, a small number of disorders, mostly pain, like low back pain, knee pain, neck pain. But I don't think it will reimburse for psycho emotional stuff, which Chinese medicine has a really great effect on people who have anxiety and depression and addiction issues. So that's the kind of stuff that I also treat in my practice that insurance would not pay for. Right.

[27:36] Speaker B: You're talking about accessibility, right? I mean, that's a struggle. But you mentioned something about how with depression and mental health and anxiety, that act puncture can help. So where would you put those needles?

[27:51] Speaker C: It depends. Okay, so unlike Western medicine, this is another difference. In Western medicine, you go to the doctor and you're like, I have depression. Well, they pull out, they open up their computer, and they're like, okay, here's the list of medications that are approved to treat depression. I'm going to give you one of them. For me, on our first visit, I'm spending at least 60 minutes talking to you to get what we call a differential diagnosis, to find your specific pattern. And based on your pattern is how I determine which points I'm going to use to treat your depression, anxiety, back pain, knee pain, whatever. So every treatment for every person is different. Every treatment every day is different. So you could come on Monday and Wednesday and get two different treatments, even though your chief complaint is the same thing, because I'm going to ask questions to find out what's happening in your body today. What did you notice since the last treatment when you feel this tension in your neck, what's happening around you, because you may not realize that your neck tenses up every time you're at a red light, something like that. I can't tell you like, oh, yeah, we always put points here for this. Although there are what we call empiric points and they have specific functions. For instance, everybody thinks that this point on their hand at the first metacarpal, that your pointer finger kind of between your thumb and your pointer finger is great for all headaches. It's great for a specific kind of headache, and I would use it for that. But another one would be the point on your wrist for nausea that everybody kind of knows about. They sell the seabands at CVS. You wear those about two inches up on your wrist and it helps with nausea, sea sickness, pregnancy, morning sickness, that kind of thing. Those are what we call empiric points that yeah, I can say, like, if you have morning sickness, I'm going to stick a needle in a point called Pericardium six naguan inner past because it has been shown scientifically to actually help reduce nausea.

[29:59] Speaker B: It's interesting because you can show up to your practice and really not know where the needles are going to go. But I love that you're taking the time to understand your patient and their day to day and what's going on so that you're not just throwing whatever's in the system at them. You're like, tell me about you, what's going on and what happened when X, Y and Z happened. And it's really interesting with that approach. And then also you mentioned about nausea. Let's just talk a little bit about pregnancy in general because there's people that have asked me about acupuncture and number one, for fertility, I guess let's start with that. What is the process behind that and fertility? With acupuncture?

[30:39] Speaker C: So for acupuncture and fertility, what we're really working on is menstrual cycle regulation, right? So I actually listened to your previous podcast on birth control. That was really well done.

[30:51] Speaker A: Thank you.

[30:52] Speaker C: Information with the world. But when I'm treating a person with a uterus who wants to have a baby in whatever way they want to have a baby, whether it's naturally or through assisted reproductive technology, the first thing we're going to work on is regulating their menstrual cycle. Typically with fertility patients, we recommend that you start coming to acupuncture at least three months before you plan to conceive because that gives us time to really get your system running at optimal speed, I guess.

[31:27] Speaker B: And is that to help your hormones communicate better or I guess is it case by case of what they need to help them become regular? I'm sorry, I'm trying to understand.

[31:39] Speaker C: What happens. We know from functional MRI machines now that acupuncture actually, when you put a needle into an acupuncture point, you are actually changing the brain, or you're stimulating the brain to release. Certain hormones and certain points will stimulate the brain to release specific hormones. So in terms of fertility treatment, what we're working on is the hypothalamus. So Acupuncture stimulates ganatotropin releasing hormone to talk to the anterior pituitary and tell the anterior pituitary when to release follicular stimulating hormone and luteinizing hormone. Okay, so follicular stimulating hormone comes at the beginning of the cycle or right after administration happens. And then the luteinizing hormone is basically that happens with ovulation because the corpus luteum is the little wrapper around the egg. Once the egg is released into the fallopian tube, the corpus LDM is what's producing progesterone to, what do you call it, create a nurturing environment in the uterus. It's progestation. That's what progesterone is there for. It's to make the walls of the uterus, the endometrium, like, nice and thick and ready for implantation of a fertilized egg. So that's the science behind fertility. Acupuncture. We know that it also regulates your endocrine system. It regulates your glucose metabolism, it regulates lipid metabolism. That's all really important in getting pregnant. It has positive effects on ovulation. My fertility patients, usually within two months, we get to a point where they're ovulating on a regular. They can predict it like clockwork before they pee on the stick or check their apps, like they know when it's coming. And then in terms of assisted reproductive technology, the hypothesis there is that because acupuncture stimulates your parasympathetic nervous system, which is your rest, digest and reproduce nervous system, that your smooth muscle is not in a state of stress and tension. And that increases blood flow to the uterus and creates a place where an egg can actually implant because stress creates muscle tension, right? And your arteries are actually made of smooth muscle. So any stress in your body is going to make your arteries tighter. That's high blood pressure, right? Like your blood is just pushing at the walls of your arteries. So when we tell your body to chill out with acupuncture, we're telling it it's safe and it's okay to have a baby. Because that's the other thing. We evolved in a dangerous world, right? There were predators out there trying to get us. You could fall off a cliff hunting, that kind of thing. So your body has all of these mechanisms to keep you from getting hurt. And acupuncture is a way of telling your body, like, hey, it's okay, you're safe, we're here. These needles are going to tell the right chemicals to come out at the right time to calm everything down.

[34:46] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, my whole brain is lit up. I'm like eating every word that you're eating. So good. No, it makes so much sense and I mean, gosh, I've had so many conversations with friends of mine and family members and their struggle with fertility, and a lot of it comes down to the moment they let go of control or let go of stress in some shape or form. Was the month that they got pregnant. I mean, it's so amazing. And you just gave me the science behind that. I am, like, high. Oh, my gosh. So good. Thank you for that information, Heather. I am so excited for my listeners to hear this. Okay, so then the next thing, speaking of family and fertility and all, let's talk about kids and acupuncture.

[35:32] Speaker C: Sure.

[35:33] Speaker B: So you had mentioned in our talk when we did our discovery call that there's a time to use it and then there's differences about healing with acupuncture with children. So if you don't mind shining a light on that, I would love to hear what we have to say.

[35:47] Speaker C: So the form of acupuncture, pediatric acupuncture that I learned in my program is a Japanese style of acupuncture. And we really only got kind of just like a little taste of it. And then I did a short continuing education class online after I graduated. It's called shonishin acupuncture. Japanese acupuncture in general is probably more gentle than Chinese style acupuncture. The needles are not always inserted into the body, even in adults. Sometimes you're just touching the point with the needle. Sometimes you're just doing acupressure. Sometimes you're just doing massage down acupuncture channels. So that's the first thing to know is that the style matters. So when I'm treating a child, I'm using a Japanese style of acupuncture. Kids in general are in Asian medicine. They have a lot of Yang. Right? So we didn't even talk about Yin and Yang. I can't believe we got this far and didn't discuss Yin and Yang. But Yang is this very active, fiery energy. It warms, it kind of moves. It's like the hyperactive. Like your kid just ate, like, four sugar donuts and is like, bouncing off the walls. That's young, right? So kids are just creatures of young, and because of that, they get sick very quickly, but they also heal more quickly. I don't know if you've noticed that with your own kids, that they can come home from school feeling fine an hour later, have a fever, or be barfed all over the couch, but then like 6 hours later, they're like, Mom, I want some Cheerios. Right, right. So with treating children, the dose doesn't have to be as strong. You don't have to use needles. In many cases, you can just use acupressure. I have actual tools. They're called China shin tools that I use with kids. The youngest child that I've treated is two years old, and I treated them for night terrors. Basically, I saw the child two visits, and then I taught their parent how to do the treatment, and they would do the treatment every night and that I haven't had to see the kid again because that got regulated. As kids get older and are able to communicate consent, that's when I feel comfortable introducing needling into the treatment protocol for them. And we call them taps so they don't get freaked out because you go to the pediatrician and they're getting their shots, and sometimes there's like a whole.

[38:18] Speaker B: Thing, right, that's trauma, trauma, trauma.

[38:21] Speaker C: We're trying not to traumatize anybody. So when little people are in the treatment space, and when adults are in the treatment space, too, that's another thing to know, is that it's all about consent and bodily autonomy. Like, you have the right to say, no. I'm going to explain to you everything that I do. And when I'm working with kids, I'm going to talk to the kid and say, okay, here's what I want to do. Here's where the points are located. Is it okay if I do a tap here? Or would you like us to use a tool? And we negotiate each and every point that we're going to do. And because they're kids and we've done the intake typically over the phone with mom or dad, the treatment doesn't take as long. It's more fun. We can be more creative, we can be more playful. But when I tell you that kids know more about their bodies than adults do, it's profound. I had a five year old patient when I was in student clinic who we would go through this process. They, again were coming in for sleep disturbance issues, and sometimes they would let me do a tap, and sometimes they requested a tool. And when we did a tool, I would let them select the tool from the assortment that I have. They all have special Japanese names, and they look very scary, but they're really just to do acupressure on points. So, yeah, it was a lot of fun to do that. And like I said, once I do my job, it's very easy to educate a parent on how to continue treatment at home with a kid.

[39:53] Speaker B: That's the gift for the parent, right? Because we just want to help our kids, and when we feel helpless, it's the worst feeling as a parent. So not only are you trying to map out their kid with them, but then once you get it figured out, you give them a tool to continue at home. And, I mean, that's huge. So for kids in particular, is there some, like, a general theme of the same issue that people come to you for? Is it all sleep? What are the main things people take you out for?

[40:24] Speaker C: I would say that for me, the vast majority has been sleep issues. But from a Chinese medicine perspective, kids are seen to have a really immature digestive system. And in Chinese medicine or Asian medicine, digestion is the root of what's called postnatal chi. So when your digestion is not working the way it's supposed to be, everything goes haywire. So in lots of cases, it can be digestion. You can regulate digestion and by doing so, regulate almost anything else in kids, because, like I said, they're immature. It's just like your brain is not mature until you're like, 26. Your prefrontal cortex hasn't matured yet. In kids in acupuncture, it's your stomach and your spleen. Those are the organs of digestion in my system. And those are capital S's, not little SS to differentiate them from the Western medicine stomach and spleen, which we can talk about if you want.

[41:18] Speaker B: I would, but I'm watching the clock because I don't want to make this a two part, because I want people to lock and load and listen to everything. But the final thing I'm going to ask you, and I'll have you back 110%, because there's so much I want to learn from you. Your brain right now, I'm like, tell me more. But the last question I want to ask you is about acupuncture for allergies. Does it help? Have you helped people with that or what's the vibe on that?

[41:45] Speaker C: So what do you mean by help? I can help you with your symptoms. Absolutely. Can I cure your allergies? I can't. I'm not trained in naet therapy, which is a form of acupuncture that claims to cure people of allergies. I have undergone naet acupuncture and been cleared of certain substances, but I didn't find it to be 100% effective. So for me it didn't work. And I don't know if it's because my allergies are so severe or if my body just wasn't ready. So there is that type of acupuncture that's specifically geared towards allergies that people can investigate. But in general, acupuncture can help mitigate your symptoms. So if you have a runny nose or you have asthma or you have constant ear infections, those are symptoms that we can treat. And once again, it's an individual process. I'm going to ask you, when do you notice the symptoms happening? If you have nasal discharge, what color is the discharge? Is it clear? Is it yellow? Is it copious? Is it scant? Is there a lot of it or is there a little bit of it? Is your cough dry? Is your cough productive? If you have asthma, is it asthma on inhale or asthma on exhale? Because those are two different systems in Asian medicine, that kind of thing.

[43:08] Speaker B: Okay. So there's way more to it than just I have an allergy to solve that problem.

[43:14] Speaker C: My favorite is when I ask a patient, do you feel that your allergies are seasonal? And they'll say yes, and I'll say, okay, so when do you experience your symptoms? And they'll say all your log. That's not a seasonal allergy. That's an environmental allergy. That's something in your home or in your workplace that's triggering you to have this thing happen, right.

[43:36] Speaker B: That response. So whatever it is, the runny nose or the itchy eyes, okay, that's interesting, but there is options out there with the acupuncture. So that's good information to know.

[43:50] Speaker C: If you go to the American Society of Acupuncture's website, I can send you all of these links so you can put them up as resources for your listeners. We can treat almost any medical condition that western providers can treat. The thing is, we are not MRI machines. We cannot order tests. So in many cases if there's something that we think is a little off, we're going to refer you back to your doctor. That's where the medicine is integrated in that we learn all the red flags. We learn when you should be seeing your doctor and not your acupuncturist. If you come into my office and your lips are blue and you've got chest pain and pain going down your arm, I'm calling 911 and you're going to the emergency room because you're probably having a heart attack. If you just got off a plane and you have pain in your calf and it's red and hot, you're going to the emergency your room because you might have a DVT. So we work hand in hand with the western medicine system. That's great.

[44:43] Speaker B: And I think it's important to see the value of both sides to be integrated and to also I didn't know that about acupuncturists as well. So it's nice to know that when you go to you, you're not going to dismiss the value that the western medicine can provide if so needed in that moment.

[45:02] Speaker C: No. And I have patients who are leery of going to a doctor to a western doctor. I have patients who have not been vaccinated and there are very few of those because I am pro vaccination and I think everybody should have them, but I have patients that can't get it. It's a mixed bag. But we're always working to help people gain trust that people in medicine want to help you no matter what kind of medicine they're practicing.

[45:31] Speaker B: Right. That's a great quote. Thank you, Heather. This has been amazing. I'm going to have you back because there's going to be more and I guarantee my listeners are going to be like pinging me with more questions and more things which I love and I encourage after listening to Heather today, guys, please reach out. Also, I'm going to give links to how to contact Heather if you have more questions that you want immediate answers for and don't want to wait for another episode. But Heather, you have been such a wonderful resource and I'm excited to share this knowledge that you just dropped and just lit up my brain about and also just providing all the resources like you mentioned earlier, just for people to explore and take a look at a different form of health and healing. So thank you so much, Heather.

[46:19] Speaker C: You're so welcome. Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun.

[46:27] Speaker B: Wow, right?

[46:29] Speaker A: Such good information connecting of dots. My brain is so happy right now. Thank you, Heather, for coming on this episode of Keep Him Healthy with Jamie podcast. Hey, guys, you can find Heather on Instagram at the wave acupuncture. The wave being T-H-E-W-A-V-E acupuncture. And then also, she has a website, www. Dot thewaveacupuncture. Net. You can find Heather and reach out, ask questions, or send DMs directly to my Instagram account. Keep Them Healthy with Jamie, and for the future episodes, I will be answering those questions that you have, and I'm excited for Heather to just expand on everything that we talked about today. Also, please take some time to find the Keep Them Healthy with Jamie podcast on. Wherever you listen to your podcast and follow my show, feel free to give me a five star rating and to leave a review. I'm so grateful for all of you guys, my listeners out there, and as I always say, you do you stay well and keep them healthy.

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