Mental Health in the Fitness Industry: Derek Gallup on Mental Health Month and SPARKLE Foundation

In this raw and inspiring episode of All Things Fitness and Wellness, we dive into mental health with Derek Gallup, an industry veteran with over 20 years of experience in the fitness world. Derek opens up about how fitness became his anchor through some of the toughest personal challenges, including the struggles of supporting a partner through mental health crises.

Derek’s career includes leadership roles at UFC Gym, 24 Hour Fitness, and New Evolution Ventures, but in this episode, he shares his personal journey—moving beyond the boardroom to address the real mental health battles we face in our personal and professional lives. As we recognize Mental Health Month, Derek highlights how we, as an industry, often focus on physical strength but too often overlook mental health.

Key Topics:

Derek’s career evolution and leadership roles at top fitness companies
Navigating personal grief and mental health struggles
The power of fitness in healing and supporting loved ones
Creating a meaningful, purpose-driven life through fitness
How Derek’s experiences led him to support SPARKLE Foundation, dedicated to mental health advocacy
The influence of Spartan’s DEKA on building community and resilience
The importance of mental health conversations in fitness culture
We also explore Derek’s thoughts on the intersection of fitness and mental health, why the industry must do more to create space for these important discussions, and how he’s using his platform to support others going through similar struggles.

In addition to hearing Derek’s powerful insights, Krissy also shares parts of her own journey and how fitness played a key role in her emotional healing.

Tune in for an episode that’s much more than just fitness talk—it's about the emotional strength that helps us face life’s toughest battles.

00:00- Intro
03:15- The SPARKLE and Spartan Connection
08:13- Krissy Vann shares her story of supporting a partner with end of life ideation
20:50- Derek Gallup shares his story of supporting partner with depression
33:50- Supporting someone dealing with mental illness
37:10- The future of SPARKLE Carla Gallup Foundation

Connect with SPARKLE: https://www.sparklecgf.org
#fitnessbusiness #mentalhealth #mentalhealthmatters 

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 3:15 The SPARKLE and Spartan Connection
• 8:13 Krissy Vann shares her story of supporting a partner with end of life ideation
• 20:50 Derek Gallup shares his story of supporting partner with depression
• 33:50 Supporting someone dealing with mental illness
• 37:10 The future of SPARKLE Carla Gallup Foundation

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

And I know that I was showing symptoms of depression. I was, you know, there was anger in me that I didn't even know existed inside of me, that I was and begin because I expected decisions to be made by the person that I used to know is Carla, who is no longer there. And I just, I didn't I was confused, and I didn't understand. And like, how could we be having these conversations that make no sense with the person that I've known for 34 years who's not this person who's here in front of me now, this is all things fitness and wellness, uniting industry thought leaders and fit influencers on the mission to inspire innovation and encourage people to live a life fit and well, in our industry, we talk a lot about physical strength, but the hardest battles aren't always visible. For both myself and today's guest, fitness has been more than a career. It's been a lifeline. It's Mental Health Month, and while the atfw podcast often focuses on the business side of our industry, today's episode is a little different. We're opening up a conversation that too often stays behind closed doors. Now before we begin, a content warning, this episode includes discussion around depression and suicide, please listen with care and take space if you need it. Derek Gallup has held senior leadership roles at some of the biggest names in fitness, UFC gym, 24 hour fitness crunch and more. He's also served as chairman of the board for the health and fitness Association, formerly Ursa, but today he's speaking not just as an industry veteran, but as someone who's faced deeply personal challenges, including supporting a long term partner through serious mental health struggles. We're going to explore how Derek is turning pain into purpose through his advocacy work with the sparkle foundation and Spartan DECA using movement and community as vehicles for healing and resilience. And throughout this episode, I'll also share parts of my own journey, because these stories matter. This is one of the most honest and important conversations that we've shared. Now before we get to it, be sure to hit like and subscribe. We have new podcast episodes weekly featuring industry thought leaders and influencers. I'm your host, Krissy Vann, and this is ATF W Derek Gallup joining the podcast once again as we roll into mental health month, before we even get into it, I just want to say huge thank you, because you've contributed many times to ATF W, and I know you lead a busy schedule, so thank you for offering the space. I you know, it's, it's my honor and my privilege to get a chance to spend time with you. Krissy, I think you know, it was really great to see you in Las Vegas and actually get to be in person with you. I wish that we were, you know, in person together today, but this is fantastic to get a chance to do this and and again, I just I feel very privileged to get the opportunity to speak with you on your on your awesome podcast. I would say the same back to you, except you and I had a little prep call yesterday, and we were crafting some things, which we'll dive into when we get to the sparkle conversation. But somehow along the way, I committed to a DECA Spartan. How the fuck did that happen? Well, you know, so one of the things we'll talk a little bit about, you know, with the foundation that I started sparkle, which is, you know, for mental health improvement, suicide prevention and for supporting survivors of suicide loss, and just to reiterate again, that sparkle stands for suicide prevention through activity, relaxation, kindness, laughter and education. And you and I were talking about some of the partnerships and some of the things we've done. One, one of the large ones we have is with Spartan Races, and also with fitness world in Canada, and thanks to Chris Smith and nassia, they're getting a Spartan event called a DECA. A DECA strong is actually what this one is called. That's going to be hosted in Vancouver, in the south Surrey club. There is where it will be, and that is going to be may 24 starting at 8am and you can sign up for any time it's you, it's kind of a rolling start. You go, and there's usually two lanes, and you're kind of going with one other person, and it goes to go from 8am till 2pm and you can sign up@spar.com you look for deca, and you'll find the race. What's really cool is, if you do that one, you're sort of challenging yourself to do an event, and Krissy will talk a little bit about what you committed to. And I am working my schedule to see if I can fly back from Elkhart, Indiana to be there myself in persons. I really, really want to do that. And so you sign up spartan.com and when you do that, you also make a donation to sparkle through Spartan spar. Spartan does it for you. On your behalf. They take part of the entry fee and make a donation to sparkle. And you know, we're actually looking to fund a lot of research going on in the mental health and suicide prevention space. I've been finding some great work being done in universities, and so I'm. Excited that this year we're going to make some contributions there from all of the great work that that people have been doing and generous donations that people have made to sparkle. So should we talk a little bit about this, this DECA event, real quick? Oh, my goodness. I mean, I asked the most important question of the gate. Number one, you got to give me credit because you hadn't even finished asking me, and I said yes, because I knew what was going to come out of your mouth. And I was like, Okay, here we go. And then I asked the lead up question that was, do they have buckets? So I throw up? So So yes. And you even talked about, I don't know if you have a special one for your hard workouts, right, but So yes, there are, there will be buckets in case you do work out to the extreme that you actually kind of maybe lose your lunch a little bit. But I will tell you this the Spartan DECA. It's called, it's the found, it's the decathlon of functional fitness. And you really can put out the effort that you want to. I know Krissy, you're like all out. You're going to go on but, but really the the event is kind of you versus you. The last thing we finished with is some weighted burpees. And everybody loves weighted burpees, especially when the whole crowd is standing around you, cheering you're on. It's, it's, you know, the first one I did was in Dallas, and I thought I was going to take a little rest during the 20 but they had the videographer, like, right in my face. I'm normally that jerk. That's like, Alright, there's no break. There. There's no break for me on camera. I'm going all the way through this straight, but I just want to encourage everybody think about it as something just, you know, you and I were talking about, it's nice to have some different goals for different goals and everything, but one in a fitness goal. Hey, you know what I can kind of work out towards this and do the best time that I can do, whatever that is. I just, you know, I don't want people to be scared that it's really, really intense. It can be really intense. And in fact, when I did in Dallas, the world record holder was there and did it. Kevin Gregory, his record is 10 minutes and 32 seconds for the 10 stations, to give you an idea, and I was all out, and I was under, I was 19 minutes, so it kind of, and that's everything that I had, and I consider myself a decent athlete, so so, you know, it's for all and there there's people taking over a half hour, and that's okay, like everybody's cheering everybody on. It's just, it's a great community element. And it's just, it's one of those things that that you and I've talked about in the past. I'm a believer that when we, when we choose to do things in life that are hard, the rest of the life is the rest of life is easier. If we choose to do things that are easier, then everything else in life seems harder. So I just, I'm just a big believers, let's challenge ourselves to do some things hard. It doesn't have to be physical, but physical is one of those things where you really can step up and do something you know, fun and challenging for yourself. It's so true. I mean, cognitively, the way we operate and make decisions is generally based on past experiences and what evidence we have. And you get to provide yourself this real time evidence of I've committed to something that no one's forcing you to do. I love that you say it's you against you however it goes. But in order to move past that goal, you now have this nugget of wisdom that you've instilled in yourself, that I can do those hard things, and it becomes a parallel for different life challenges. I felt that way about fitness for so long, but one of the things that I kind of teed up this episode with and Derek and I had a long talk yesterday is that it was in 2023 that we had the first opportunity to meet in person. And I always say and what I love about the podcast medium is that it gives us so much room to breathe with our storytelling and people's stories. It's really can't be understated how powerful they are. People hear parts of themselves in stories, or they understand that something's okay, that they're feeling because we become we're more connected that we've ever been as humans when it comes to the technology that we have available in our lives, and simultaneously, we can be so disconnected depending on what age you are, you may have grown up in a generation that was very much Buck up, shove it down, don't have feelings I journaled not that many years ago that I personally had. I could think of four times on my hand that I cried as an adult, and I actually wore that like a badge of honor. What I lacked was empathy and compassion. I would be able to show up and be a deep listener, but I actually wasn't deeply feeling other people's experiences, because I never offered that to myself so fast forward, when Derek comes into my world, I actually had already started a lot of deep inner work on my vulnerability journey, which I recommend to any soul that's out there that feels like they're above feelings you're missing out on so much of Life and Derek, when we sat down, it was to your point, yeah, when the camera was on, you doing a Spartan it pulled 10 million things out of you. When you and I were sitting with my camera rolling, it truly felt like I was just sitting with you and you were sharing, and you were sharing the story of Carla, your wife, that sadly, suicide is how. Her story ended, and through yourself and sparkle, it's not how it's ending, because you're using that pain into purpose. I encourage anyone, and I'm going to link the episode below to hear that full story. But what I couldn't have known, and this foreshadowing of life, is how my life would be impacted by suicide and suicidal thoughts and suicidal ideation. You know, when it's mental health month, and this bothers me more now, because I recognize it, and even as an industry, we're guilty of it and it's important at the same time. But the conversation around mental health, I'm so grateful the stigma has lifted. We are talking about it. I remember distinctly saying a quote to you Derek in that podcast, saying, in the past, anytime somebody talked about going to a therapist, it was referred to as a shrink and something was wrong with them. And we have gone so far past that people are proud and sharing their therapists all over social media. And at the same time, I think the conversation around mental health is a little sanitized. Everyone's saying taking a mentee day like they don't really if you've not experienced it or been around a loved one that's been exposed to it, you may not quite have an understanding over the magnitudes of depression and anxiety that plague our society, or Furthermore, when somebody has a real mental health, psychological issue that they're looking to overcome, and a psychiatric issue, and what those experiences look like. We talk about that a lot less, and it's almost like there's a darkness meter and our appetite, if it goes too far to the right on who don't want to look at that, we just shut the volume completely down. There's less space for the conversation. And I'm not saying the space doesn't exist because someone like yourself, Derek, you're working so hard to advocate and create that, but it is a reality of where we're at. It's not palatable to a lot of people. So Derek, you and I sat down yesterday where I was able to kind of give a high level highlight of what my year had looked like, and right off the heels of Ursa, last year, I came home on my birthday and my husband and someone I had been with for 20 years, I met him when I was a teenager, the high School Sweet Heart story my marriage came to a blind siding end, truly, I didn't see it coming at all. We had just gone on a lovely holiday to Mexico a week prior. I go to LA to do the show. I come back and I do have to give him credit. It's not his fault. It happened on my birthday. It's just happenstance how things come out in our lives. So it was what it was, but you can imagine the juxtaposition of having your marriage end shockingly to yourself and getting messages at the same time that are hope you're having the best day ever. And mentally in my brain, I just was psychologically writing back being like just curls in my bathtub, bath mat, bawling my eyes out thank you. Wasn't about to write anybody that. So I felt like the rug got pulled out of me. But what ended up ensuing through that week was by far one of the most disconcerting experiences I have gone through in my adult life, this person that I knew deeply, that had been my best friend for 20 years. I did not recognize. I did not recognize. It was like a mental switch had flipped. They were vacant, they were cold, they were emotionless. It was eerie at best, deeply confusing. If you were me, there were beach. Patterns were irregular, like nothing made sense. All of a sudden, I felt like my world that week was a kaleidoscope, and you're trying to walk, and it's where do you even put the next foot in front of yourself? And what happened the following weekend is, and I should just share with listeners here that I have permission from this other party to share these parts of the story, because I have tried to keep things as respectful as possible, despite the hurtful journey it was, but he ended up disclosing something that had he'd not shared with anyone, and truthfully, the way our brains work sometimes when very traumatic events happen in our lives, it's quite wild, but your body goes into a protection mechanism so the deep memories actually get suppressed. Think of it like a Pandora's box. And I had not realized that through the course of my relationship, my husband's relationship with alcohol was a lot more prevalent than I gave it credit for. Call it denial, call it cognitive dissonance, call it hindsight. 2020, I see it very plainly now, but it was. During a time that previous fall, so leading up to March that this happened, that he had done a sober October, and during that time of sobriety, Pandora's Box burst open, and they were plagued with very intrusive thoughts and PTSD from these very real life events, and they were going through insane, internal, tumultuous mental health struggle, and I had no fucking idea, and this was the person I lived and loved with for 20 years. I had no idea how much pain they were trying to sift through in their mind. So now you fast forward to this weekend, and not only do I become the first person that they lift the lid a little bit on this Pandora's Box, which was a visceral thing to receive when a body i body keep score, is a fabulous book we store trauma in our bodies, if you've not taken the time to work through to bring any of that to the surface, and it was, I was holding an individual that basically collapsed on me. I went very quickly from Krissy, the romantic partner, being hurt and concerned, to the friend that was, Oh, my God, I've got you. I don't know what's happening, but I have got you. And within that conversation, he shared that he had full plans that week and that weekend and that day to end his life. He had made arrangements for a gun, and that's how it was going to come to an end, and that he didn't want to be here anymore. And what happened beyond that was about a six month period of me confusing a little bit of compassion and CO dependency, trying to carry all of the emotional weight of another, which is a human feat not designed for one person. You cannot love somebody Well, no matter how much your heart wants to love somebody well, and so in tandem, you had these two journeys where his mental state was quite severe and I could not get them to the resources that I was desperately trying to infuse into their life, because I was drowning like there was a period over those six months. And the best way I can describe it, because, to our point of how we started this conversation, our fitness pillars, essential, the science backs this up. This isn't just body. It is body, mind, social, it is essential. And I was trying everything I could to Okay, and getting my workout and my nutrition wavered. For sure, I've lost an insane amount of weight for my body frame through this experience stress. We know why it's a killer. You could see it on my body shrunk down. Wasn't eating that well. I wasn't sleeping that well either. But you're trying and holding on to these pillars, and it was like I had a chain and a big ball taking me underwater, and every foundation I was trying to build for myself was a little like a tiny gasp of breath before you're pulled under again. How can you possibly help another? If you're drowning, it doesn't work, and that's a really tough lesson to learn. And so I reached out to Derek this last HFA, because I know the work that you're doing at Sparkle, and we've just been having conversations because for myself, I'm like, I don't want I think our stories are way too powerful because the loneliness you feel, I felt like nobody could possibly understand what was going on, because I also was sworn to secrecy. So much so I was told, if I told anybody the details of what was shared with me, he would kill himself. The weight, I cannot emphasize how terrifying it is to have an individual that is erratic in thought pattern mind. You don't recognize them. They're also pushing you away at the same time, but emotionally holding on to you like a deep claw at the same time, and you're trying to reconcile. I love you. If this was a physical illness, I wouldn't walk away from this. So how would I let you go? Now it's a terrifying experience, and I know I'm not the only one that has walked this road, and you know my ex is working as best they can. Unfortunately, anyone that's dealt with substance abuse issues in the mix as well. Those are a powerful grip on somebody's heart, mind, soul, and until they're ready to rid themselves from that, a lot of the deep work that's required isn't going to be able to fully be realized because they are numbing agents. But Derek, I was so. Moved when you shared your story of Carla. And you know I had compassion in that moment when we sat there, but I've actually re listened to it since then, and you're just like the compassion I have for you as a caregiver that had to walk alongside that journey, because it's so not linear, and it is definitely not the sanitized mental health experience that often is the one that makes the headlines this time of year. Well, so Krissy, thank you so much for sharing. I'm sorry that you've had to go through that experience. And, you know, there's, there's, there's so many things that you said that are resonating with me. I'm going to talk about, kind of the first one of the caregiver side of things, and how hard that is. And, you know, I, I come back to the airlines, the airlines have a saying that they say when you get on the plane that really sticks to something in life, and it is in that rare circumstance that the cabin becomes depressurized, the mass will fall. You take care you put yours on you before you can help others. And I do think there's an element that you have to be cognizant of, being able to take care of yourself before you can take care of anybody else. So that's one. But it doesn't mean that this or you're going to be able to you. You described, you know, kind of feeling, that sinking feeling underwater. And for me, I'd my my my visual of the things that I was going through. I had like this, this whirlpool sucking me down, and I had an anchor tied to my ankle while I'm trying to distill swim and keep my head up, and keep Carla up, and my family and her family, and like there was so much that was happening at that time. So, you know, I kind of come back to you the thing that I've shared when I, you know, obviously, I've met, I've talked with, hundreds of people who have either had a loved one that died from suicide, a loved one that attempted suicide, a loved one that that has suicidal ideation or even depression. And the common thread through all of those discussions is the person that I had known for so many years was no longer that person. Your card and I were married for 30 years and had dated for four years before that, but the car that I that was there with me in the last three years of her life was not the Carla that had been there all those years before. Carla was this amazing, amazing mother, fantastic partner, spouse. We did tons of activities together. Just enjoyed time together. And, you know, I and again, as I reflect, I think there was depression that I wasn't seeing, and even alcohol abuse that I wasn't seeing. I saw it towards the end, but I think it was happening before. And the reason I said is, you know, I got her phone afterwards, and you're trying to, you're trying to put together pieces of what happened. And so I'm looking through what were the things she she was searching and going all the way back to 2018 2019, she had an a suicide attempt in 2020 but she was, she had been looking up alcohol, anonymous places to go and stay right. She was looking, and I never talked to me about it, and I hadn't, I hadn't found it yet. It wasn't showing itself. She was kind of, I guess, a functional and so, you know what, I'm going to kind of open up a little bit of things, because you did, and I'll open up for things for me too. But, you know, so she it was 2020, right, when the pandemic happened. And I, you know, and you're looking for why. And I think where I've gotten to have my most comfortable is I've stopped looking for why any of this happened because, because with mental health, you're not going to find necessarily why. It's not a common sense, it's not a logical why things happen that you have no idea why they're happening. And once you can accept that, it becomes somewhat easier to work through things. Or I'm not going to say it's ever easy, but it's at least it's easier. So in right at the shutdown of businesses and things, I saw a change. I felt like I thought was sadness from her. Then I saw some real changes. And then through April on 2020 there was about three weeks where she only slept, like about a half hour a night. And just, you know that her mental health, I think, went from being, you know, maybe a low to it kind of just fell off a cliff from her mental health, and we agreed to have her go to an inpatient facility. And again, I knew nothing about any of this stuff, right? So the first day she's there, she's calling me and crying and saying, it's not the right place for us. She doesn't need to be there. And it's, you know, it's for people who are an addict, and she's not an addict, and she needs to come out. And I don't like, this is my wife. This is my soul mate. I like, I feel horrible, so I made the decision to go ahead and pull her out, and that was not the right decision. Two days later, I'm working downstairs, and I hear this thud upstairs, and I ran upstairs to see. Was going on, and there's Carla on the floor. And I said, Carla, what happened? And she said, I think I need to throw up. So I again, I just thought that she was sick, so I went to get a trash can for her to be able to throw up. And she said, Well, no, I need to throw up because I took the pills. I'm like, What are you talking about? She goes, I took all of my anti depression pills. So she took 60 pills at one time. So that's the first time I've ever called 911 called 911 fire, police, ambulance, all shut up, and I'm freaking out like, you know, trying to make sure that Carla is okay. They take her. And I say, Okay, well, what hospital we're going to remember this is, this is April of 2020. They said, No, sir, you can't come. This is COVID. So my daughter was out walking the dog when this all happened, she came home just to see the ambulance everything there. So my daughter and I sat for an hour holding each other crying, waiting to know whether our wife, slash mother, was still alive or not. And that was so hard, but that that there were harder times that still came, when she came, you know, and then she was, she was in a facility for two weeks, and that's as long as they would keep her, and she wasn't ready to be back. So then the job, it was, it was my job, and my daughter was very helpful with me with this too. She was 21 at the time of getting her to voluntarily go to another living facility, and it's just it's so hard because at the intake, I literally had to stop her from running away 12 times during the intake, I had to block the door physically, to stop her then that first night she's there, and I'm already on edge About the fact that my wife is at a facility, and I got a call from the facility, Mister Gallup, not to worry. But your wife has run away. That's a great statement. Not to worry. Thanks. Yeah, they said we are driving right next to her. She can't get in as fenced in, she can't get anywhere. But they kind of let her go and do and this like, and I'm thinking to myself, Okay, this is, like, my wife of 30 years. This is not Carla. Who is this person that's doing this? And you know, when she came home, we went through all of the treatment I know of, every treatment. We went through many, many treatments. We went through transcranial magnetic stimulation. We did ketamine treatments, we did ECT treatments, uh, electro therapy, we did medication, and none of them really seem to take away the the the suicidal ideation, at least. And again, I didn't know for sure, but I know now, after getting her phone and how what her her every six weeks or so is searching for a way to be successful in suicide, but I didn't know that she wasn't sharing things with me. I didn't know that that was happening. I'll tell you, in the hardest part was, and as I reflect back, I think in that two and a half years that I was with Carla after the attempt, I really think that, and it's it hurts, but I almost think that she was mad at me for finding her the first time and helping her survive. Because I think she just she had gotten to a point when I don't, I don't understand the pain. I know she was in pain. I hope I never understand that kind of pain. But she was in such pain that was the only way she saw to get through the pain. And it's a horrible place to be and but it's it's it is so different. It is so 180 from the person that I had known all of that time. And I guess you know so that that's one thing, just as you go through this one is to just know that the you do the best that you can without being sucked into the vortex, because at some point you can't have both parents, both both spouses, going down this hole like it's that's not the solution, either. But then I just want to share a story, because, you know, the sparkle again, it's it's improving mental health, suicide prevention. And for survivors of suicide loss, I'm that, Krissy, you're a survivor of suicide loss, even though you haven't you and I talked about this, even if you don't actually lose that person, the fact that you had to go through the elements of someone, your loved one, your husband, going through suicidal ideation, you are a survivor, and one of the things that you talked about is feeling very alone in that. And it is a very lonely place to be. There are some great organizations, NAMI, National Alliance for Mental Illness. That was one that I actually was going through and calling my I joined a group with NAMI which which made you feel not alone. It made you feel that there's other people that understand things that you're going through. And it's, it was very helpful. But the thing that I'll tell you, I was going to share a story, because I'm, you know, I'm three years now past losing Carla, and one of the things that. Happened? There weren't. There weren't. I can't. My phone was not ringing that much after the loss a few people, typically people that had experienced some type of loss themselves, but somebody reached out. Tracy palmberg reached out to me. She actually talked to my best friend from college first and said, Hey, do you think Derek's okay if I reached out to him? He said, Yes, I'm glad he did. She reached out and said, hey, you know what? I know we haven't talked. We knew each other in college. We didn't really talk much. I know we haven't talked that much, but if you need somebody to talk to, I'm here for you. And I said, Gosh, you know what, I really do need someone to talk to. As we started talking, it's not that she knew things to say. She did it. She was She listened. She was a great listener and empathetic and not judging, and just letting me share my story the way you're letting me share today. And we started, you know, it started turning into, hey, you know what? We like we'd be talking. And next thing, you know, we look at our phone like, you know what, we've been talking for two and a half hours. You know, just these conversations were great. Said, You know what? And three months into doing this, we said we should, why don't we meet in person? Sometimes she was in San Diego, outside beach, and we went to dinner. It was fantastic. And we just found that there was a very much of a commonality, the way that we looked at parenting, the way that we kind of looked at life, where we were and in our lives, with our kids and so forth. And I remember that I'm just like, Okay, we went to dinner, but I really want to see her again. So we actually it was President's Day, and we had, we had the day, or was maybe it was Martin Luther King deck. It was a day that we had off. And I said, Hey, you know what, all my meetings are canceled. Can I come down and go hiking with you? And it was what, you know. And then it progressed into another lunch, or into a breakfast that her son had a rugby match that was near Huntington Beach. And then we just started kind of make it to where we can see each other, and here we are now that, you know, we're together and we live together, and we've kind of merged our families. And I share this story, one, because I'm happy, and I'm happy that that happened that way. But two, it really is a lesson in how, how, if you have a friend or a loved one that experiences a loss of some kind, again, whether it's from suicide, an actual loss, or a suicidal ideation that somebody has shared, or wherever it is, just reach out. You don't have to know what to say. The best thing to say is, how are you doing? Ken, did you want to talk, right? Don't feel like you have to have answers and all these positive just if you're there and say, Hey, I'm thinking of you. You know, what did you did you? How are you doing today? What is any of that stuff? That's all it takes. And so if you're that with, the biggest lesson that I can come away with, that I've learned and I could share, is that we can all be true helpers for survivors of suicide loss by just opening up and listening and and just letting people talk, and even just, you know, I just, I unders, I'm sorry that you went through that. I understand that it's must be really, really painful, even if you've never really experienced anything like that. If that's just all you can do, that's great. And if you can share some nuggets of things that you've gone through that that's all the all the better you it really becomes this connection you have with somebody who's experienced again a loss, whether it's a physical loss, or whether it's the loss of a relationship or a loss of someone that you knew that that was that person now they're not. Those are all losses, and so we all can do our parts to help with people who are surviving through that. And it's really not just the least you can do, it's everything. There is so much to be gained by having your pain witnessed by another human being, the healing that can happen in allowing your pain to be witnessed by another. So to your point, exactly, I think sometimes in situations like that, people do withdraw because they think, how could I possibly solve or fix or what do I say? And that overwhelm overrides their ability to do that, reach out where, in reality, all you need to do is offer that year and lend the space, because you can't just carry everything yourself. And there's so much in life that we try now to just stack on and tack on, and before you know it like we aren't designed to work that way. That's why we kind of malfunction to a large degree, and why burnout is prevalent and all the rest of it. And I think, in a time in the world now where communities never been more important, like you talk about the fact you went through this in COVID, where people were so isolated, we know that the Surgeon General has said loneliness is a killer and that it's an epidemic in our society, we know the value of being able to connect with fellow human beings and share our stories, and I think what you're doing with Sparkle is having a tremendous impact, but I know you're looking to grow the ripple. So we've talked about your vision before, but we're into 20. Five now you shared that you're planning on doing a lot of groundwork in universities colleges, which we know that, unfortunately, that demographic has really been struggling with their mental health. We look at the state of everything they're questioning in the world, and their economic pressures and all the rest. So what's the vision going forward, and how can people help drive that for you? Yeah, so, you know, I, and it's a great question, the vision is, you know, through the, you know, the sparkle, the activity, relaxation, laughter, kindness, education, those are the things that helped me personally get through some again, you know, to help me get out of the Whirlpool that I was going through. Because, you know, and here's an interesting stat, if you live with a depressed person, whether especially spouse, but a person in your household for more than six months, it's a 95% chance that the person that that was the person was depressed, the other spouse is going to be depressed also. And I know that I was showing symptoms of depression. I was, you know, there was anger in me that I didn't even know existed inside of me, that I was just And again, because I expected decisions to be made by the person that I used to know is Carla, who is no longer there, and I just, I didn't I was confused, and I didn't understand and like, how could we be having these conversations that make no sense with the person that I've known for 34 years who's not this person who's here in front of me now. And so there were things that were important for me. So the vision is, how do we help people every day, be improving mental health? How do we do things to prevent suicide? One of the biggest thing preventing suicide, to be able to talk about it, to talk about what's happening before it actually gets to that point. And then, you know, I'm a realist that, you know, to currently, and it's a really, really sad stat, Krissy, but 1800 people a day worldwide die from suicide. So I'm a realist in that that's going to continue to be a situation that we need to deal with. And so I think it's also important the survivor of suicide loss piece. That's why it's really kind of 333, things that we're approaching from from sparkle. Now, what can people do? Well, there's things you can do that are sort of like working with the partners that we've got, that can kind of indirectly help. And I'll talk about some direct things that you can do. Things that you can do. So if you do any kind of Spartan Race, if that's something, a race outdoors, or you want to do something, what we're talking about that DECA in gym, if you use a spark sparkle discount code, you get 30% off. But also a donation is being made to sparkle when you do that. So that's that's like, an easy way to do it. And you know what? I'm doing, something cool for me, I'm getting a great price, and I'm making a donation, and that's been a fantastic partnership for us. I've got several partners where there's discounts for using a sparkle discount code with if you want to buy TRX equipment, let's say for your home you want to do that, there's TRX a my zone with heart rate monitors that I've got a sparkle discount code for that. We've got if you want to get educated yourself about mental health, we've partnered with the National Academy of Sports Medicine on their wellness coach certification. There's a discount for that. We've partnered with the mental well being Association, who's created a brand new mental well being coach certification. And it's amazing. I felt like I was sitting in a lecture hall learning these great things about mental health. And then the last one I partnered with is my study mind by Dr Seth Hickerson, who I actually worked with at crunch. And he has one that I what I liked about his is very, very actionable, and it was one of the most engaging educational pieces I've ever done online. It's fantastic there from a nutrition standpoint, because we know, I mean, one of the most important things, you know, I think depression is exasperated by bad nutrition. Yes, if we're doing right, these processed and ultra processed foods and high sugar, those are all things that are contributing to a negative mental health. So we've partnered with dot fit, and so you can actually utilize dot fit to to help you with kind of supplementing your your daily nutrition and the last and then on the on the RE I call, I call it relaxation. It's really kind of in the fitness space, we'd call it recovery, but recovery mental health can mean a lot of different things. So I use the word relaxation, completely fair. That makes sense, right? So we've partnered with hyper ice. So hyper ice does the hyper volt, so percussion guns for recovery. On that they do vibration therapy, and then their big one is Norma tech, which is the compression and I just, I've just found that, you know, one of the worst things that can happen for your mental health is getting injured when you're injured and you can't go do the things and be active the way that you had historically. Been it really does do a number on your mental health. And so I just think, the more I'm more like, I'm spending probably more time recovering, relaxing from workouts than actually the workouts themselves anymore. And I just think that, because I want to continue to be able to do the things that I want to do, because it's great for my mental health, the last one is, our website is, it's sparkle CGF. So CGF is the carta Gallup foundation, so sparkle cgf.org, and on that, there's a lot of great information tied into the sparkle letters that we've talked about. A lot of deeper dives into some of this, and more links to some great places and educational and also some helpful places you can go. Like I said, Nami is great. The AFSP, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, is another fantastic organization that we're linked to there as well. But there you can make a direct donation also, if you're, if that's an and again, charitable, we're a 501 C, so if it's also, it's a tax deductible donation that you make going directly to sparkle. Well, Derek, I look forward to seeing the momentum continue to build, and I just want to say a huge thank you. You know, as we connected, I was like, obviously this is a conversation that is chatted about every year, and that is a great thing, because people are feeling less alone. There is less stigma year over year over the mental health discussion, but I think the more raw and real that we can get about it, the more helpful that we can be. And I know that sometimes these things are uncomfortable to hear. Sometimes, if it's your own experience, it's uncomfortable to share. But within that discomfort, there is such a level of connection to be gained and such a level of understanding amongst each other. And if you're going out into the world this month and beyond, I think one of the biggest things that we can be cognizant of as humans these days is you do not know what is going on in someone's inner world. So to the point of that K and sparkle, if anything, just be kind. I love that Krissy, you know, and you made me think, what? There's a, there's a shirt that I, that I, that I bought, and actually says Be kind on the front, on the back, it says every person that you know is fighting a battle you know nothing about and that only, and we start to find out by by asking questions and being there for people. And I just think the biggest thing I can say that the kindness part of this is being there and reaching out. And to your point, it sometimes is like, I want to step away from the pain because that person's pain, and I don't want to be there. But you know what being open and being able to listen and just, you know, be there for people is probably the best thing we can do for improving mental health and for suicide prevention. Thank you so much, Derek, and as I say, we'll make sure that we have all those links in the show notes. And if people want to reach out directly to yourself, I know that's something you're very open to as well. So I really appreciate you taking the time and space today. 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