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All Things Fitness and Wellness
If you're a gym owner, operator, boutique fitness studio owner, or a fitness enthusiast, searching for valuable insights to stay ahead in the dynamic world of fitness and wellness, you've come to the right place!
At All Things Fitness and Wellness, we pride ourselves on delivering engaging content that keeps you ahead of the game. Our weekly podcast brings together thought leaders, influencers, and industry experts, sharing their personal stories, latest trends, and cutting-edge techniques in the field. They openly discuss their success stories and how they overcame failures, all with a shared mission of promoting the idea that exercise is medicine.
Explore our gym and wellness haven tours, giving you an exclusive insider's view of the most innovative and successful fitness and wellness businesses out there. These tours feature inspiring founder stories, trend reports, and more, giving you invaluable knowledge and inspiration.
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All Things Fitness and Wellness
Strength-Driven Fitness That Scales: MADabolic’s Franchise Playbook with Brandon Cullen
On this episode of The ATFW Podcast, Brandon Cullen, Co-Founder and Chief Concept Officer of MADabolic, joins host Krissy Vann to break down the business philosophy behind his strength-driven interval training franchise.
Brandon shares how his professional hockey background shaped MADabolic’s structured, performance-first approach—and why the brand was built to serve people beyond their sport, with a disciplined system that can carry them into their 40s, 50s, and beyond.
This conversation explores:
- The gap MADabolic fills between performance and mainstream fitness
- Why the brand intentionally avoids trends and “fitness as sport”
- How franchisees are scaling with consistency and discipline
- The challenges and opportunities in targeting the other 80% of the addressable market
Whether you're an operator, investor, or franchisor, this episode offers insight into building a brand that prioritizes strength, structure, and long-term strategy.
What we are seeing is our big box competitors. Turns out they're getting cool, they're getting good, you know, they're getting better at what they do. And some of the, some of the things I love is what is happening in that adjacent community of big box gyms, doing the right things for the first time, and in a long time, this
Krissy Vann:is all things fitness and wellness, uniting industry thought leaders and fit influencers on the mission to inspire innovation and encourage people to live a life fit and well. On this episode of the atfw podcast, I'm joined by Brandon Cullen, co founder at metabolic. We dig into how Metabolic has scaled with intention, staying true to its brand while expanding across markets. Brandon shares what it takes to build a boutique fitness concept that doesn't Chase trends. Why disciplined programming matters and how to grow without losing your core identity. If you're thinking about franchise systems, evaluating boutique concepts or just looking to sharpen your brand strategy. This one's packed with practical insight. Oh, and fair warning, it ends a little abruptly once we realize we're from the same hometown and I used to dog sit for his parents. Small world before we get to the podcast, be sure to hit like and subscribe. We have new episodes weekly featuring industry thought leaders and influencers. I'm your host, Krissy Vann, and this is atfw. Well, I am stoked today to have Brandon Cullen on the podcast. First and foremost, this is your first time on ATF, W, thank you so much for taking the time. Yeah, it's great. Thanks for having me, and we had a little chat here getting started. I have to commend you, because you mentioned you do some podcasting yourself. So thank you for being so beautifully prepared. Your audio is crisp and fabulous. Well. Thank you very much. Let's just dive in here to the early days of metabolic I'm just curious what gap in the fitness market were you trying to fill, and how has that vision held up over time?
Unknown:Yeah, so we stepped into strength and conditioning as a business in the mid to late 2000s my co founder and I both had a background training ourselves, and we I started training people in my early 20s, but we both came for professional hockey background strength training was a huge Part of our game, because I think we were just like naturally gifted players, and that was that controllable. And if you think of late 2000s that was kind of the birth of CrossFit, and I would call that sport specific training. And boutique hadn't really hit it stride yet. We had seen some of the early concepts, like orange theory was kind of first to market, but it wasn't, it wasn't what it is today. So at that point, we saw this massive gap in the industry with you had sports specific training on one end, and then you kind of had your, you know, your YMCA level boot camps, or your Les Mills kind of boot camps, or anything gold's like all the big box gym boot camps, and being two guys that were past their sport, that still wanted to not compete, but wanted to strength train and wanted to continually Chase strength and conditioning into our 50s. You know, we thought, what was the program for people past their sport that wasn't as technical as, say, the sport of fitness, and that actually was real training in comparison to just your entry level boot camp hit kind of things. So weirdly, we've been kind of refining that model for close to 15 years now. And the funny thing is, Krissy is the same. Hole still exists. You know, the old boot camp style companies are now brick and mortar brands, but the level of what is provided is kind of similar, and then you have high level sports specific training. So the gap we hope to fill, we're still trying to fill it. Why
Krissy Vann:do you feel that hole still exists so strongly? Because obviously there's a need and a want there. Yeah.
Unknown:I mean, you really got to look at math, right? I mean, I know we hit a milestone this year with one in four people in North America. I think now belong to a gym. And if you even break down that subset into say, like 100 people, you know, I'll start with saying, I think the best workout or program is the one that gets you moving five days a week, whether it's ideal or whether it's best, I think in motion is the most important thing right now. So if I look at, say, like 100 clients, I think there is a lot of options for. Or 80% of those people that just need something to get them moving. But I do think there's still that big gap for the 20% that are looking to do a little bit more with their their fitness journey.
Krissy Vann:Well, I do feel like there's a huge shift happening in regards to people using fitness as a sport. I mean, you talked about the fact that your comeuppance was really. Early Days of CrossFit, all the rest of it now we're seeing endless fitness racing. I kind of call it because it's completely my age group, the midlife crisis. Like we really need to have a goal in our lives, together, moment, which is a beautiful thing, because it's contagious. When other people see individuals doing these types of things, it motivates others to get started with it, and it also feels like there's less of a mental barrier for them to get moving. And it's interesting, because we know the last couple of years, every single year there's trendless, trendless, trendless, and strength training has just topped the list over and over again, but your philosophy has really been resisting chasing new fitness trends and things like that. So how has staying true to your brand philosophy really helped challenge, helped or challenged your growth?
Unknown:Well, you and I both know that even five years from now, there's going to be something new that is going to catch people's eye. For sure, I would say today that the CrossFit consumer of the late 2000s is the High Rocks consumer of today. Not much has changed. It's this. It's the same archetype. And I agree with you, like there's seasons in life that I think you should chase some stuff, whether that's your first marathon, maybe, maybe your first triathlon, maybe it is a version of fitness races. And I think that's fine. I think my argument is, is that game day can't be every day, and I think a lot of the fitness driven, competition driven aspects, the training program also looks a lot like the competition, and that's okay for that season, but it's not a sustainable thing that's going to allow you to safely progress into your 40s and 50s. So my big belief is the same things you did as a young athlete or someone new to fitness, kind of those building blocks that you started maybe in your late teens to early 20s. I think those are the things you also have to get back to if you want to maintain a certain level of fitness in your 40s and 50s, especially if you're not worried about a sport, and even if you are worried about a sport, you should really compartmentalize training for that season and then get back to the base of the pyramid. You know what? I mean, like no one if you, if you dumb it down to say endurance athletes or runners, it wouldn't be healthy for a runner to run a marathon once a week. You know? I mean, you might have a 12 to 16 week training camp that allows you to get to that event that will probably beat you down pretty good, not only the training, but the the race itself, but then for the other nine months of the year, you really should be creating a sustainable structure that you can build on. That's, and they've, by the way, my opinion, you know, but that that's how, that's what we believe here,
Krissy Vann:well, and it kind of segues perfectly into the business side of things, because I think a lot of those same philosophies work very well when it comes to growing a business. It comes down to the foundations versus the fat of the moment. And if you are going full tilt over a certain milestone, that's great, but that's also not sustainable, and one of the things that you've seen is significant franchise expansion in recent years. So what have you learned about selecting the right partners, and what should operators consider if they're thinking of going that route?
Unknown:Yeah, and I mean, we are in these different seasons, also within our business, what got us to 10 locations as two young, scrappy kids, we knew it wouldn't get us to 25 so then we took on the right kind of partners, the right kind of experience to to look at that next level of scale. Once we got there, we knew 25 to 50 was going to be different. It was going to require, I would call it strategic risk, because in our season of business, we have to see where it could go, and sometimes that stretches the original core values, because you have to see, like, what, what? Where can this reach middle America? Can this reach slower suburban markets when you were built in more Metro, urban kind of markets. And I think this phase we're in right now the 25 to 50, because we're at about, we're about 44 locations now, and should be at 50 by the end of the year. I think this was the biggest kind of learning phase, because we took some chances. Is, what about this sleepier suburban community with just a rock star owner? Can that work? What about a an owner that checks some of the boxes, but you put them in the best market ever? And kind of what we found, which we'll have to fine tune, is a great operator. Can make a lot of markets work, and a bad operator can can kill even a great market. So I know a lot of franchisors, they hate when I speak to this kind of thing, but at a young, immature kind of franchise, at that huge level of growth, you have to chance some things to get the flywheel going to see what could be, and then you sometimes have to course correct to get back to who you are. And we are right in that kind of feeling out process right now that is, it's extremely demanding and at times tiresome, but I don't think you can get to 100 without going through this figuring out phase. It's
Krissy Vann:like a metaphor for life. Anything that we do that messy middle bit is often not what people want to hear. They're like, can I just skip past that? Please? We know that doesn't work for any facet of life. I mean, that's kind of what I love about fitness in general, and the fact that it's a core of so many business owners and operators in this space. Because I'm like, we get it because you get it from that, and then you have to live it out over and over again in these different life phases. But I'm curious, because I mean, who you're working with, as franchisors, is so important when you say those bad operators, like, in your mind, what are some things that have come up for you that would quantify a bad operator. Oh,
Unknown:that's a hard one, right? Because you almost attach the word bad to like a bad person, and it's it's not that, because a lot of things that people don't understand in a a franchise agreement or a marriage, things can change, like the the life of the franchisee. You know, if kids are introduced, if there's a financial hurdle within maybe the other side of their finances, it's not always just a it's not always a system doesn't work, and it's not always just the person. It can sometimes be their season of life. The other thing that's kind of funny too, that I, you know, we, we've used the word like relationship a few times on the on this recording here, but you know, when you, at some point in your life, were attracted and maybe dated someone that was just completely different than you. You know, they were intriguing. They were different. They met, they made you feel alive, type thing. Well, oftentimes, like, especially a brand like ours, like, we are going to look so different, so intriguing, and it excites you, and all of a sudden you get into the marriage, and you're like, whoo. I you know, that's not me, actually, and that happens, right? And the weird thing, there's not a there's not really a personality test or a balance sheet we can fill out that helps the franchisee understand who they are. So a lot of times, you'll qualify these people based on, you know, meeting them in person they are financially able to do the investment. They check the boxes, say the right things. But then once you open some adversity hits and you realize you are now running maybe a business for the first time, I haven't found that that pressure test to introduce to understand that until you are open, and the best thing you can do then is just help them either become that person or help them move, potentially The investment to someone that better fits that scenario, and that is, like, that's the reality of business. Like small business is hard. I mean, the statistics of, you know, businesses succeeding or failing over one, three and five years. I mean, franchise systems, we're still exposed to that, and you don't know, right? You just don't know the franchise. A great franchise system provides operational playbooks, best practices, marketing, brand recognition, a lot of things that, if you have to go out on your own, could be tough to figure out. But at the end of the day, it's a business owner running a business within a bigger business, and there is a lot more tricky things to navigate than people may believe when you're told, Hey, this is a turnkey system that just works for everyone, because there's there's a human out. There's a human element. To a hospitality business that kind of just says what it is, and you can't teach that human element.
Krissy Vann:I really appreciate how you started that, in the fact that you could easily be able to associate hearing bad in front of a word and associate as the person. But there is a differential between the person and operator, as in running a business. So if there is somebody that is enticed by a business model and thinking that, hey, I might want to jump into this and open a franchise, what would you say would be some good questions to ask themselves before diving into something like that. What are you hoping people, if they're approaching you, have asked themselves,
Unknown:yeah, I think you're if you're extremely entrepreneurial and wired, you definitely have to ask yourself, Am I okay being an operator? And I know that's hard to separate, because a lot of a lot of marketing in the franchise world will say, like, be your own boss or be an entrepreneur. What they don't say in the fine print is, this might be your first entrepreneurial activity. It might be your first business you've ever owned. Now, if you are a seasoned entrepreneur that has built and enjoys building and likes being a visionary, I think what you have to ask yourself is, am I willing to buy into the system and be more of an operator? And you can be an amazing operator, right? But if you are that visionary person, it might not be the move for you. Like, if I I'm very visionary and I like building, if I wanted to do a franchise for just some extra income, I would have to buy into something where I didn't want an opinion. I knew the system worked, I believed in it, and I just let allow it to print money for me by operating within their standards and not be a challenger. So I feel like that's a good question to ask yourself is, like, you know, am I, could I be a great operator, or am I more wired to be a builder and creator and a visionary? Because that can be a real fun head to head,
Krissy Vann:no doubt, well, and I mean, I imagine it's a curse and a blessing, because exactly that, you obviously no formula works. You're growing, but you do have people that are entering the arena all of a sudden that have different perspectives, maybe they see different blind spots. So how do you balance by staying true to who you are as a brand and also working with some of these different opinions or experiences and where they may be helpful in regards to growth trajectory going up, versus it being a hindrance, where you're all of a sudden having head butting crashes all the time, yeah,
Unknown:you definitely there's no avoiding it from every person I've talked to that's in my position, like conflict, friction, that's all Part of being in the franchise or seat or the systems seat, I think your best to choose your battles on the things to enforce. It's also better to do with data and the one thing that you mentioned, it's a blessing and a curse. So when you look at a healthy franchise system, you'll typically have about 20% that really over cheat, over achieve. Weirdly enough, a lot of times those are entrepreneurial driven, like go getters, and then you have kind of 20% that can struggle and underachieve, and that might just be one of those things that it wasn't the right fit, and we, neither of us, caught it, and then you have 60 in the middle that should do very well. In our opinion, you should build your systems for the 60 and not don't overthink the outliers, because the the top performers, they would probably be top performers, wherever you stuck them right. They're just those kind of people. And then the people in the bottom, whether it's a season in life that's not working, or it was the wrong culture fit, or honestly, they're just not good operators. You can't really build system for those outliers, so we try to really focus on that 60% in the middle and try to make decisions that strengthen that nucleus more so than the outliers. No,
Krissy Vann:and I know that you said, obviously things have shifted from when you're scaling from one to 10 and then the next chunk. Now you're in this new phase of growth, but there's a lot of people that are listening, I'm sure that have similar goals. They're wanting to get that growth trajectory. So along that journey, let's break it down into three phases. Let's say what were the biggest learnings in each of those chunks, like the challenges maybe that you didn't see coming, that you. Who would give advice to your former self? Now,
Unknown:yeah, I mean me personally, and I've said this on too many podcasts for anyone that enjoys listening to my voice, but I realized early that I really was more of that visionary creator and leader, but I was a pretty shitty, like, manager of people. Like, I just, it's just not a skill set that I have the temperament for, and you're always working at it. But like, you know, I want to chase excellence, and that's kind of what I expect. And I realize that it's a pretty ignorant statement to think everybody just thinks an app operates like me. In fact, if you did, we wouldn't have a very successful system. So like, you know, making sure that, not to be cliche, but to have the right people in the right seats in your organization is important. The other thing I would say, too, is to to really evaluate what you want to do with the business. There's a framework I like from an off author named Greg McKeown. I think it's called the essential intent formula, but it's essentially, who do you serve? Who do you want to serve, and when do you want to do it by kind of thing. And one of the things that I often admit to, you know, we are a franchise system, but we are kind of like the complete opposite of a cookie cutter fitting into the industry kind of thing, and that can have a little bit more of a ceiling, but I think being honest with that ceiling early and rather than catering to more of the masses, just kind of laser focusing in on who your core consumer is, I think is important. And a lot of times when people hear that, they almost attach something negative to it. But that can be done in a very exclusive environment or a very inclusive environment. You know, someone's someone's daycare is another person's nightmare, is the way I would put it, and someone's pop music, you know, I'd rather, I'd rather stab my ears with a fork, you know. And neither is right or wrong, but knowing who you want to chase and really catering your entire offering and your support towards that easier said than done. But if you can identify what you want to do early and hold true to that, it'll there'll be less headaches. I'm
Krissy Vann:curious, were you ever tempted to waver because you, I mean, it sounds like it was a quite laser focused goal, but knowing that there's a ceiling, was that ever a temptation? Or you were just kind of like, Nope, this is who we are, and this is how we're going to do
Unknown:it. I mean, I think we have wavered, and if anything, I think what you'll see over the next couple of years is us getting back down to exactly who we are. We are the best strength and conditioning gym in the boutique fitness industry. There's no one, there's no one who makes me nervous even close about what we put on the floor. The issue is you still deal with everyday people. You still have to be good in the lobby. You still have to make sure they feel seen and supported and heard, so like that. It gets a little tricky, right? I think in this 25 to 50, we had to soften a little bit to see where it could work. Because here's a good example. I feel like I'm dancing around the topic. But if you've ever seen a and we have seen it, if you've seen a company that was built in Manhattan or LA and they go to scale. You know, it's, it's very different. When you stick a Soul Cycle in middle America beside a lens crafters, it's going to look very different than Manhattan. And I would say soul cycles should never look to do a unit there. And they, and they have scaled back. Berries was a similar way. When you think of when rumble boxing was bought by exponential fitness, I mean, they came out of just powerhouse cities, and are now going to scale and it's it's not going so well, because what it was built to do was not built to serve the masses. So it's not right or wrong to target the masses or to target the the elite, or to target just a subset that lives within all of these but knowing who you want to serve you know, is pretty important. Yeah,
Krissy Vann:that's an absolute essential. In regards to infrastructure for franchisees. I mean technology, obviously, everyone's talking about AI and this that the other are there any tools that you have implemented to help streamline operations that have been exceptionally helpful, that truthfully, you didn't have at your disposal when you started this business, because it is evolving and changing so rapidly. Yeah. Yeah,
Unknown:us as a company, we've made a commitment not to get too wrapped up in a lot of the technological stuff. But when you just talk about tech stacks, I mean, during COVID, we took a lot years of pamphlets and PDFs and built them into more of a robust LMS learning management software that it's hard to imagine how we did it before now.
Krissy Vann:Well, don't worry, we did. We're the same generation that used Map Quest and take phrase to our dashboard, so we are adaptable creatures.
Unknown:Yeah, we we white labeled a project management software for our openings. So there's like, 170 steps from signing your franchise agreement to opening your doors the first day. And like it is categorized based on specific team members that own specific roles. Again, something that when I look back 10 years ago, try to think like, how did we do that? And recently, a lot of the communication assets that we have now, we try to utilize them. So say, like the lead journey process, getting to know the client a little bit before they get into your lobby, to enhance the human experience. So I'm always torn on this, right, like a very successful metabolic location will have 300 members, you know, like they that's a real good business. And I think you can make an argument that I don't I don't think you need that much automation to say hello to 300 people. I know some of my franchisees would think I'm crazy, maybe even some of my team members. But I also remember running gyms with three and 400 members without having anything, and it forced you to be more personable in the lobby. It forced you to understand your clients. So I don't know half the time if it's helping us or if it's making us a little bit more lazy, but I think if you use it correctly, it can be a very powerful tool, only if it's used to enhance the user experience and the human side of the business, because from my vantage point, I'm not a fan of where we're headed. I like in person, everything, and even if we do go that way, the hole to fill would be the in person, human hospitality aspect that enough people Stu still do crave. So I could care less which way it goes, because there's always going to be people that want to come to the place of business, to see a smiling face, to receive an amazing experience.
Krissy Vann:I mean, elaborate on that, because that is a huge topic of conversation now, or even you see, because of labor shortages, there are tons of gyms in Europe, and we're starting to see the concepts here where there's staff less. And to your point, a lot of people need social interaction that they're not getting in their daily lives. These are the third spaces, fourth spaces that they're getting it. So how do you feel when you see concepts like that pop up?
Unknown:Yeah, you know what it's I feel like so much changes and so much doesn't. Because what I am seeing is the peloton user of today was the P 90x user of 20 years ago, I
Krissy Vann:threw up the first time I did that. Yes, I mean, it's just and then I laid in my bathroom for several hours. It was just like I had very big audacious goals that went very sideways very quickly.
Unknown:It just seems like it's a more it's a sexier product. So now you have a mirror on your wall instead of, instead of watching a DVD series, I think the big box consumer is going to get a more elevated version, where you show up to the machine and they already know what reps to use. So I just, but I don't think that the at home user is going to become a big box user. The big box user is going to be come at home, and the boutique person is still going to be the boutique person. The I use this analogy once there is there are people that make their Folgers Coffee at home that's not going anywhere. And there are some people that stump stumble into dunkin donuts on their way into work, and, you know, they get their good enough coffee. There's a hybrid in between that is Starbucks, which was at once this elevated experience, just above dunkin's. And now there's blue bottle coffee that is a more expresso, driven, very experience driven, type model. Guess what? They all work, and they're not. They're not going anywhere. It's just, I don't find it as complicated as people like. To make it noisy on on the right message board, I don't think it's that complicated,
Krissy Vann:fair enough. Well, and you're. In a phase of growth. So obviously the non complicated mindset is working well in your favor. So on that note, you have provided such great, actionable feedback for those that are looking to play in the franchise space, learn a little bit about what lessons you've had along the way, as we look ahead over the next five years, let's start when you're looking at franchising. What do you think the biggest potential risks are? And obviously this is high level, because there's going to be business specific, but what would you say are some of the potential risks or
Unknown:pitfalls? So we've seen a lot of the big money shift towards recovery in boutique lately. I think that's an extremely risky investment to jump into, say, like a contrast therapy standalone concept. And the reason I say that is I do believe the big box gyms, this will just become a standard. So whether you go to a crunch or even like, here in Charlotte, our YMCAs are as as as nice as any gym in the in North America, like they're on the level of like, kind of lifetime and equinoxes, they're that nice. And even, like, think of when Planet Fitness put tanning beds in their change rooms, they are capitalized enough to drop a cold tub and a sauna as part of their offering that I do believe it could be very risky to have a standalone, expensive offering where you just go somewhere for contrast therapy. I think that could be true of assisted stretch. I think boutiques, risk is that there's going to be a consolidation. I think the hobby gyms that were strong enough years ago. I think you're going to see the strong get stronger, and hopefully, you know, we will be on the side of that. The thing I know about strength and conditioning. I mean, not that much has changed. We still squat, hinge, push, pull, jump, land, throw, like that's how the body moves. We package it differently. But I do think if you are a one dimensional thing, you got to be a little bit careful, because the one great thing about strength and conditioning is it translates into everything. I mean, a good strength program can make you stronger at running yoga. Anything running in yoga make you stronger at running in yoga. And if you happen to have a franchise model that essentially is a brick and mortar business, and you decide to do one thing, you have to be the best at that one thing, because what we are seeing is our big box competitors. Turns out they're getting cool, they're getting good, you know, they're getting better at what they do. And some of the, some of the things I love is what is happening in that adjacent community of big box gyms, doing the right things for the first time, and in a long time. Yeah,
Krissy Vann:it's so true, even like myself, obviously, I've been exposed to the B to B side, but I started out as a competitor and a fitness consumer. I just, I love it. Lifting weights and putting things up and down became my sport. That's terrible at sports as a kid, so it was nice to actually find my groove. But to that point, I used to be the person that would have a class pass membership, because I did like the social element of a boutique experience. And then I liked my place to have headphones on. Though I'm such a smiley person, it's the only place I some reason look very mean and unapproachable, and I just want to lift my weights. But the concept Delta ended up opening in the city of Vancouver, and I felt for the boutiques in that area, because exactly that, they basically swallowed up a bunch of the top instructors in the city mirrored all the concepts that were in their vicinity, and they've done a really good job of it to the point they've been wait listed essentially since they're open. And so it is a bit of a dangerous game when there are people that do have the capital to kind of be able to mirror and emulate that. That being said, there's boutiques in my area that I will still pay a drop in fee to go to. Oh yeah, because you cannot emulate that in that space. They're just not successful at it. So it kind of just illustrates her point to such a big way, even for those that are in in the business, but can differentiate and use that consumer brain, it's so effective. I'm curious, because I know we talk about risks, but at the same time, I always love to leave on a positive note, sure. So for those in the franchise space, what are the biggest opportunities that you see for the next five years, and what are your goals? I mean, you're scaling. So is this like a plan you want to exit one day? Or you see yourself going to the moon and taking this global
Unknown:Yeah. Know. I mean, personally, I think, you know, the dream is to build something great enough that you can exit and take care of your loved ones the way you hope to do it, and also, like, from an ego side of things. And this is me talking to say I did it. So, you know, not a popular take, but sorry, a lot of hard work goes into being an entrepreneur and hopefully seeing through what you set out to do. I'm
Krissy Vann:going to pause you there and just say, stopping oneself and wanting that moment of VA, I did. It shouldn't be perceived as a negative at all. Most humans never actually pause and give them credits for things. It's normally people working on inner narrators that are negative and trying to get rid of those. So I'm just saying a healthy level of ego is a good, positive quality, not a negative.
Unknown:Yeah. Well, I'll take that. I agree. I 100% agree. Ego moves the needle. So it's okay, as far as, like, what we are trying to do, it's, it's still a very similar goal to when we took on private equity and new partnerships in 2019 like, the goal was really to open 100 great units. To get to 100 great units is probably signing 200 franchise deals. You know, hopefully 50 to 75% of those actually open. And then hopefully you maintain that 60% are doing good, 20% are doing great. And then you have to work on that bottom 20% whether they are sometimes in the worst case, to maybe close the unit better opportunity to move it to a better operator or person that's positioned best for that season of their life. So the goal is the same, 100 great units. I would be completely happy with myself, proud of my co founder, that we were able to do that. I mean, we were Canadian kids that came through major junior hockey, played minor league Pro, had no education. So life is good. I have no complaints. If we got to that 100, it would be amazing. As far as opportunities, I do think Boutique is it's in a challenging point right now. I don't think it's going anywhere, but I do think there's going to be this feeling out process in the next one to two years when you think of some of the biggest players that the industry's ever seen, orange theory struggling, from what I've heard, you know, you're seeing some negative press with a couple years ago, with the exponential kind of hit piece, F 45 being forced to delist. So consumers are obviously nervous and they're aware. I think that gives us an opportunity to get a little better. And then what you and I know you, we've talked about being probably around the same age, this, this, this work, this industry, is so cyclical, like I remember being a an 18 year old kid training for hockey spinning, and then it disappeared for a decade, and all of a sudden, Soul Cycle popped back up. And to your point, strength training is a rage right now. Well, strength training is not new, so, but I do think there's going to be a redefining of the boutique space. I think some of the things you could see with cost of real estate money being expensive right now, I think you could expect a more premium price point starting to surface. I think it has to. And I think you got to be really good at that one thing. Because if you can go down the street to crunch or on the high end of something lifetime, and get something, you know, pretty good and close to my metabolic workout, but I also get all these other things that can become difficult as you cycle through different seasons. So you have to be so damn good that someone's like, you know, I'll keep my crunch membership, but I'm going to, I guess for me, metabolic for my strength training.
Krissy Vann:Right on, before I leave you, I'm curious where in Canada
Unknown:I grew up in St Catherine's like, okay, st, Catherine,
Krissy Vann:so, oh, my god, so are you related to the Cullens that live in I am. I used to take care of their puppies. I used to take care of my Cobb over the name of the pugs. That's
Unknown:my parents. Stop. That is fucking why? God, that is crazy. That's my parents. My mother, dad. You've just
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