The Future of Digital Fitness and Human Connection with Wexer CEO Paul Bowman

In this episode of All Things Fitness and Wellness, host Krissy Vann sits down with Paul Bowman, CEO of Wexer, to explore the future of digital fitness and what it means for health clubs, operators, and the wellness industry.

From his background as an elite athlete to leadership roles at Virgin Active and Gymbox, Paul brings a unique perspective on how technology can enhance — rather than replace — the human connection at the heart of fitness.

What we cover in this episode:

-The evolution of digital fitness platforms and their impact on operators
-How clubs can leverage technology without losing personal connection
-Why member expectations are driving innovation in wellness and fitness technology
-Opportunities and challenges for operators in adopting new solutions
-Paul’s insights on where the fitness industry is headed next

Connect with Paul Bowman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pbowman/?originalSubdomain=nz

#fitnessbusines #fitnessindustry #fitnesstechnology 

Chapters: 
00:00 – Golden Age of Fitness Industry
03:00 – Humor and Industry Perceptions
06:00 – How Gym Models Evolved
09:00 – Role of Local Clubs
12:00 – Rising Member Expectations
15:00 – Differentiation Challenges in Clubs
18:00 – Building Strong Partnerships
21:00 – Digital Fitness Innovation
24:00 – Fitness at a Crossroads
27:00 – People Follow People
30:00 – Fueling Industry Growth
33:00 – Optimism for the Future

Transcript

0:00

I really really think that we're in a bit of a golden age um if we get it right um and if we can get everyone aligned to the right missions the right companies delivering the right products and I think you know consolidation is gonna help that to further grow our entire industry cause you know you think about our industry compared to you know cars etcetera etcetera we're such an immature industry and we've only gone through a few cycles so I think this is our cycle to really put a put us out on the map in terms of how much impact we add to society this is all things fitness and wellness hosted by Chrissy Van together we're uniting industry thought leaders and fitfluencers on the mission to inspire innovation and encourage people to live a life fit and well sometimes the best moments happen on a podcast right as the mic starts rolling and that's exactly how this episode with Paul Bowman begins Paul is the CEO of Wexer where he spearheads the mission of integrating digital solutions into the fitness industry his perspective is rooted in a career that began as an elite athlete and later included leadership roles at Virgin Active and gymbox giving him a clear understanding of health club operations and member needs in this episode Paul reflects on how digital offerings have evolved the challenges and opportunities operators face when adopting new solutions and why keeping human connection at the core of the experience remains vital his insight bridges the world of sport health club operations and digital innovation offering a thoughtful look at where fitness and wellness are headed next before we get to it be sure to hit like and subscribe we have new podcast episodes weekly featuring industry thought leaders and influencers I'm your host Chrissy Van and this is ATF W don't introduce me as the Dinosaur of digital fitness that's all I you know you know I don't I don't want this to carry on well you know what we're gonna carry it on because that's hilarious that you shared it you just come to Canada which by the way this sounds like an East Coast problem I'm on the West Coast so I'm not taking any blame in this but you go to Can Fit Pro and they call you the Dinosaur of fitness can you please explain what happened what was the context here yeah no so you know so a good friend of mine um uh well you know the whole the whole group we've worked with Goodlife for over 10 years and you know camp for pros not just Goodlife but there's very much made up of of you know let's call it Petrol Holdings um yeah and the the introduction was um and would like to introduce Paul Bowman the CEO good friend and a bit of now now a bit of a a Dinosaur of digital fitness so you seen it all and I'm like oh that's a bit harsh um so kind of kind of stunned me in in the intro and I'm like okay so that that's that's who I am now but we can't carry that on it's not a good thing that's fair I mean in what context were they saying that because I to me it sounds like veteran of the industry probably would have been a better way it was it was yeah but veteran just means old and has been um so keep fine tuning yeah fine tune no no more about the the the hype cycle so um when they had um uh it wasn't it wasn't Eric from Mackenzie can't I can't remember the gentleman's name from Mackenzie talking about the different cycles of digital um the different yeah um influences you know fitness is having going from you know you know kind of your mid market to to low cost you know high value low cost to more services and and the argument was which I agree with is that we've actually as a fitness industry started probably racing too aggressively to the bottom um and then that there's a there's actually an extra level where people would be paying an extra 10 10 dollars a week$15 a week if our service levels actually could improve so um and the conversation was very much on how to do that and you know from you know from my side you know we're doing 25 25 million fitness experiences we got some uh some something to say in that in regards to how content plays such a big part in how we support and inspire our members so um that was that was the context so there was it was it was it was a little bit of a compliment but also a little bit of a jab at the same time by our my lovely friend Mister Patrick Evans well I just want to point out that whoever that was speaking from Mackenzie is probably like this Dinosaur doesn't even remember my name not good not good but in regards to that conversation can you elaborate a little bit more about the race to the bottom and how did how do we end up there I think naturally it's been the most compelling um you know and in terms of being able to I I I felt like the service levels on a on a consistent basis was slowly dropping as we're coming so therefore the price point made sense and then you know if we still look at how people choose their gym memberships it's still based off location um you know and and and so everything is based off location and then and then price point within that location and I think because in reality and I know this sounds a bit harsh so I don't want to hit too much clickbait but you know even the mid market gyms or the high end gyms were essentially delivering exactly the same for the low cost gyms they had the gear but the service levels wasn't there so I think what it did is fundamentally made the consumers choose I kind of always believe that the the market will tell us what's right and so we from a Wicks point of view we've always said look you know if if breath content is gonna be our biggest uh views this this this month then that's great cause that's what the market is telling us and I think when it came to the fitness industry let's say wow even 10 years ago 15 years ago going low cost is I think it was a challenge to our industry to say hey if you're not gonna deliver me that service and I'm pretty much gonna get the same gear this is where I'll go and I think that's the challenge statement that's probably been and I think now there's a far greater need coming from consumers to actually achieve results which I think this is what we all are here for as an industry in terms of how do we make true long lasting change you know I I we we do everything based off the habit cycle in terms of it takes 66 days to create a habit but seven days to break a habit and I think that's why fitness routines are so hard right cause it's you know it's a lot it's it's it's it's a lot harder to create the habit than than to break it but as an industry we have to take more responsibility to actually get that happening um and I think we've again low cost has enabled us to drive great great membership growth great penetration across many many different countries you know I think most countries are sitting well over 15% now in terms of penetration of society which is great awesome we're doing a great job in that regard but how do we actually make everlasting change um you know and how do we actually support our members is where I would like to see this go you know I really like the wellness movement but how much is the wellness movement not really being defined like if you know if I go from I'm I'm lucky to serve some of the top clubs in the world and you know their definition of wellness is different compared to all of them um you know and so I don't know if wellness necessarily gets us to start creating habit forming create um bonds to to for everlasting you know longevity health etcetera etcetera I think it plays a great part as a part of a um as an individual trying to lose weight gain weight get fitter etcetera but we have to take more responsibility to um actually get them to start creating these habits and and I think you know the joys of it now is we've got amazing facilities we've got amazing different price points and we've got amazing different suppliers sorry plug like Wexar that can actually get you to there's no excuses anymore you know we created we created the big reason why the the hot wax it was created was the fact that we were I was sitting in gyms going group exercise is such an important part of fitness and actually we we're locked behind the the the doors like you know there's there's we we did a survey and there was a third of our members that were coming for three trainers those three trainers only had only had one session per week and it was like on a Thursday or Friday and we could only fit put fit put 50 people in so like every single week we were annoying nearly 1,000 members because they couldn't meet that you couldn't get to their class with their favourite instructor hence why essentially Wexler was created to go let's take that out you know let's get these people that are amazing in the studio on camera and being able to deliver and actually weirdly even though it's taken a long long time you know most clubs that are successfully executing digital have a local star strategy because local stars are it right now for us it's if we want if you want huge usage if you want if you got an adoption problems or you got engagement problems you put local stars on content on your content um platform that thing goes gangbusters sorry no you're so right though that's what podcasts are for this is the whole beauty we're allowed to let it breathe I don't need to cut you into any sound bites except there you go but I I like how you kind of explain that there because exactly that they're your local influencers and if they're already teaching in your facility it's because they're a fan and they want to have full classes and ultimately it it's a two fold exchange because they want to bolster their profiles and have that kind of celebrity feel of themselves so aside from that I mean obviously so many gyms decided to bridge that digital gap a couple of years ago with the whole event that we do not even need to say out loud I mean I hear a lot that the industry itself has been such late adopters when it comes to technology and doesn't necessarily nail the execution so for those operators that are still seeing really low usage rates what are some of the other pieces of advice that you've Learned through the Wexler experience that actually drives people to have that hybrid approach and ultimately make their member retention more sticky yeah yeah look like I I think I think yes the the event that we're not allowed to talk about that that you know you can put anything up there and people will engage with it and and I think in a way that drove a lot of digital consumption I think that was happening anyway like if you look at the Kaguya over the time it's it's actually still increased year on year um based it take away that event um because that's the only way you could move right you needed to follow someone I I guess going to nowadays where you still seeing you know over 50% of workouts are actually at home or on on on devices we gotta meet the members where they are and and I think you know so what what I'm worried about as an industry is that we're we got a situation where people are using us as a club group but then they're actually getting their service and support from from different apps I I don't believe that like I believe it needs to actually come from the operator itself like cause you if you're gonna commit to that brand you should be able to commit to their ethos in terms of how they're generating results their content or the rest of it and there is you know how I see behaviour change is when that's all connected really well so you know you're you're you're joining a gym that which has a digital offering you know it's there to support you but it's also hacked into your member journey so in that in those first 66 days you've you've got like whatever it is and again this is the great thing about content being so um so vast in terms of what it what it can do you know if someone's getting hooked into sleep stories if someone's getting going into the wellness side more cause they're working out and then wanting to do more recovery that's great but we we know that naturally the more that they'll use it the more they'll continue to use it because there's different components right you've got you know I I always put the category when I'm looking at content and you know we're working with insurance companies and sports companies and all the rest it's all the same it's are you supporting that person or are you inspiring that person and I think sometimes as a fitness industry we we we lean on the inspire too much like the hardcore Harry's you know hitting big big wads and you know looking great and all the rest of it where we actually don't present the personality like if if we if we look at some you know we do a lot of um uh unique client kind of launches where we do talent management and if we look at what when a when a influencer is saying what they eat in the day or what their day looks like that's actually more viewed than their actual outcome in their actual workout which is exactly what happens in YouTube um you know and who's winning who's winning media right now it's YouTube right so it's kind of like well we just need to follow the same thing you know you've got so many great personalities in these clubs that again we're either locked behind closed doors or we're we're not enabling them to actually come in and join us and and you know them doing their own thing which is it's just creates too much friction so you know this is where I always kind of put my hats off to likes of a like a smart fit where they they they took the best trainers that they actually had made them essentially superstars um by giving them their own channel and and and so and but channel not only just from outcome based you know their biggest I think their biggest um views of postnatal and then like um uh booty builders uh type workouts but the thing was the personalities behind that to drive that because of course we are in the entertainment attention space so the more that we get personalities on the on the camera just outside of just actually doing workouts the better it is so you know cause I think we underplay you know we we always look ourselves as we are the outcome like we that that this is the workout but actually how do we get there like like if it's a story about you as an instructor that you know in your life that inspires them to go hit that workout that day that's actually more important um and I think that's the shift that I think it's already happening like if I if I think about you know the some of the big club groups it's definitely that that that way inclined in terms of their thinking in terms of taking great talent I think the challenges that they kind of become um talent managers but you have been anyway cause you've been managing huge group exercise schedules um so it's just like why don't you just intertwine that far greater and and you know what what we do from a Wix point of view in that strategy is we treat them like a content producer so you know um a certain percentage of everything that we make goes back to our content partners and so them as a content partner we can actually deal with that relationship ourselves which makes it probably a little bit easier for the club but I think the reality is that clubs have to lean into this way greater than what we are right now cause we we can't just be facilities um we need to be we I think we need to be engines that support and inspire society to move and create healthy habits well and we know now more than ever especially the generations coming in behind us experiential is necessary it's not a oh we're going to create this that's a demand from them and if you're not offering that they're gonna walk out the door it's funny though hearing you talk about all these creators true story and a bit of a Tangent but yeah back in the day I'm I come from traditional media I was a TV host for many years but I was also competing in bodybuilding at the time so you know I was a little shreddy spaghetti and on LinkedIn I had a recruiter reach out and keep reaching out because they were like oh we've got this app thing and we're looking to like we'll train you to do spin and that this is going back many years ago and I'm like oh man like at the time I was so traditional mindset I probably could be retired with several houses if I was first to soul cycle or something like that huge mistake ha ha ha but it's right though like the the it's weird you know like if I look at you know and I can't I won't give you the the data but the the actual club group but the the club groups that we do a really really unique kind of influencer strategy on they convert on average between 20 to 24% of that influencer's database pretty much within the first three months because of course it's all aligned right like if they're getting paid from the system and getting and getting the attention and the eyeballs underneath Brand X and then they're going they trust that individual'cause they're following them for a reason and then they're naturally gonna go to the gyms that they're recommending if it's in a natural way you know like I think everyone's consumers are coming a little bit smarter that everyone's just trying to plug everything um but if you actually see that influencer one actually delivering sessions inside those facilities to always in there working out sharing stories all that type of stuff it just becomes such a natural magnet to that's where I need to be um because that's you know transfer of belief right like I I believe this way of of working out I I believe in that individual and therefore I'll believe in that facility so um it's so powerful and it's probably undercooked but it is starting which I love yeah it's powerful it's undercooked and to your point it's in your doors already so if you're not utilizing it that is a huge missed opportunity I know that you kind of mentioned there when it came to content creation and what the current appetite is what's trending upward I mean you mentioned that some of the influencers that you work with prenatals starting to have more hits and things like that but what do you see trending upwards as we look ahead cause we know content at the end of the day you have to look forward not backwards yeah no definitely and it changes so quickly you know like so strength like overall in our category strength is just gone gangbusters um especially female female strength so females delivering strength sessions it was actually quite interesting when we looked at our library and you know we're talking about with we can we can have access to over 10,000 different titles if we want we actually looked at how many was strength oriented delivered with a female um and it was tiny it was like Jillian Michaels it was a few others and then so that has just gone and we don't know if that's because there's more creation of content in that space or or you know we know that strength has become a lot part of a huge part of someone's uh overall working out so that that's great um but then just the wellness library wellness library is what now 22% and and when I say wellness that's sleep stories that's recovery that's stretching so not not traditional yoga Pilates that's actually just what I'm doing to try and improve my recovery essentially that that has just gone nuts um so that's where we're seeing you know like right now I think the last so no not that we haven't got this month's results so um uh July's I think 12% of our overall views were sleep stories um so you know and so so many people are using Wixter to go to sleep ha ha ha OK yeah I actually want you to elaborate a little bit more on this because as you said it I was like I think I know what that is but also if I have a question Mark it means another listener might I'm especially curious to follow up only because I keep I go on news wires all the time to just generate content and I'm seeing a lot of investment in the sleep space are sleep stories are you is this a glorified bedtime story what's happening here pretty pretty much they're actually they do work like actually when I'm when I'm cause I have travel a lot um I actually use cause they just they just unwind you like they're so they're scientifically proven by the the sound of the voice it is a bit of it it honestly actually it feels like it yeah I mean there's nothing wrong with that I'm just summarizing it and and it slowly pro pro cause you start you know you think about you you go to bed and you got so much stuff running through your head you've got someone in your ears that's actually saying the right things to kind of put you to sleep so like I don't think I've ever I've never finished one put it that way um so that's that's that's the whole point of a sleep story you know um so I I think I think probably the max I've ever got to was like 20 minutes um I think the worst thing you can do is do a short one and then you get right for a sleep story then you have to go do another one um but yeah no it's yeah scientifically proven um essentially rhythms and noises with people speaking um so you can have people speaking you can have people not speaking uh to be able to put you to sleep and to get you into a I'm I'm really not doing it justice cause we should get these people on on here but like you know cognitive um you essentially shutting off the frontal cortex and trying to get into the deep uh different brainwave states like I'm they imagine like quite meditative right what is it theta state like then all of a sudden you're kind of half between asleep and awake it works it works it works I should know the science I apologize to anyone that I'm butchering right now I can tell you even though we recorded the I'm gonna record the intro later but I will tell you that I will not introduce you as a scientist thank you thank you it's not the expectation not much I'll just get you on ATF W and just light you up completely be like God this guy really is a Dinosaur I think they were on to something at Canfit Pro oh stop it stop it stop it don't worry we're gonna squash it there I hate that that happened on Canadian soil my goodness I apologize on behalf of the country ha ha way to feel like you know to take a take a what nearly a 24 hour flight and then also I got delayed 3 3 days because of the Air Canada strikes but let's not get into that let's keep it all positive thank you fair enough well let's keep it positive and shift a little bit more to the business side because you know that's a wealth of insight from the content which is obviously your bread and butter when it comes to Wexler there was big news this year with core health and fitness in the picture so tell me a little bit about that addition and how that's kind of evolved the strategy and the offerings yeah naturally so you know look we so game line and core um we've always had a a reasonably good relationship right and um and a good friend of of mine and probably probably been on the pod as well Brian O'rourke uh was a bit of a catalyst of look you know why don't we join together um in in terms of coming together from a view of better distribution because you know one thing for us is even though you know we've we've been a global company um we've we've done a lot with a a lot less resources and and I think the view at that time was hey with there's such a huge opportunity in the market in terms of consolidation of for digital players especially coming out of Covid and you know we've always run the business let's call it a little bit old school so you know we didn't we didn't do big cap raises um we've we always got our customer conversion cycle right um delivered great products and and grew grew slowly I guess you know we didn't have that rapid things it's just been solid growth year on year Gainline likes those type of businesses um hence why they bought core and and and and purchased us and yeah coming together with core is essentially a way to to better support the industry like you know if we're saying as a as you know I'm saying to uh operators that we need to be able to be able to distribute content to support and inspire to change habits we also need that to flow through within the tech the the actual equipment space and you know the the one thing that I wish I wasn't saying but I am saying is that you know you you you build a club you put treadmill in you're not you're not you're never not gonna put treadmills in um and so you know with Wexar it's it's still there's there's there's still a does digital work for me is it something that I need you know we're not a treadmill um yet um but we will become a treadmill so in my ambition to for essential digital to be a treadmill um that's why we thought why don't we join one of the best companies that builds treadmills uh so that that was that was the whole thinking and you know look it's been it's it's it's been a very good marriage um so we still you know operate operating both very very independently um you know from a from a digital because there's there's so much customer overlap but there's two different lines of thinking you know one's very we we look at everything from a digital lens and digital engagement they're of course looking at it from a product manufacturing point of view so there's still a lot of work to be done in terms of synergies um but yeah the future is really exciting yeah well and talk to me a little bit about that integration not necessarily with the product line but exactly that like where the space is for digital right now without cannibalizing a gym floor because I feel like you know there's a lot of operators that get it and then there's some where it's like is this gonna take away or add to the experience you know yeah like yeah good good perfect like it's actually you know we've we've got stats year on year and it's actually pretty much exactly the same stat every years for the last 11 years that essentially every time you add digital you actually grow your overall um what would call it in session sessions by about 12% cause you just you think think about it logically right you go yeah go so someone someone the the the kind of journey that we we lay out is there's so many gym members that are intimidated or just feel like they can't just jump into something so if you know if you've got a group exercise session which we would think of course why wouldn't you go into group exercise session cause we live in Brea and we've always done it for years right um but to some you know 80% of our gym members most of them are actually really really intimidating by that so if they can do the content like this is the kind of layout that we always do if they can do the content on their on their phone in their own homes get used to the movement patterns then hey then they they do that virtually inside the club so they understand the environment they're still doing the same workout and then the the instructor does the very very similar workout to to what those movement patterns are it reduces the intimidation factor immensely um so therefore they're already feeling comfortable and and guess what when that instructor is not there and they've also created content then they'll engage with it so it it's for me it's one of the best it one of the best or the best member journey tools that you can do to reduce intimidation and that's I think so underplayed in our industry and I again I think it's one of these issues that's come with these low costs because we don't have time thinking about that anymore because we're like well it's a price point they got the gear they go with it right but that ain't gonna change anyone's bodies um so you know that's where I really think content cause content course that whole strategy I just explained is completely scalable if you already got group exercise okay that's group exercise individual that's not scalable but that's the unique experience that's the best experience that we have in the industry right so it's how do we build around that and naturally it actually happens very very naturally you know if you look at fandom you know I got quite a lot to do with sports teams um it's exactly the same people watch sorry I'm a Rugby for all those people that weird sport lay it down yeah no OK OK Rugby this is a safe space for Rugby all black OK you need to live in Christchurch ha ha ha yeah OK OK well well well I can't support the Crusaders but you know full cheese fan but anyway that's that's a different conversation um so so we you know they they actually watch the content they might get a short of someone playing Rugby a gladiatorial hit or something like that then they'll go watch a little bit more and if you actually see the building up as soon as they go to a live experience they will watch 50% more Rugby it's exactly what Disney did this as well so if you if you look at the the original Disney plus strategy it was how do we actually get more people into parks um and they said OK we're gonna take with attention economy we're gonna get as put as much content as possible so when they go to the parks they're gonna watch even more content which is exactly the truth is that every time someone goes to a park they watch 50% more content right and it's exactly the same in the fitness industry so if that instructor is is the the event so we build them up to that event they will engage with that instructor or that gym 50% more likely when it comes to digital so it's a really nice close win win win loop um so that's that's the thing that excites me of where we are in in an industry is that man we have we can really dominate that space if we can take the attention and entertainment eyeballs um for fitness right at the moment I don't like well I can't say I don't like you know the like how many people have got different appearance missed all that type of stuff I I love that but sometimes that needs to be controlled and I think a club group can control that and I think we need to be offering cause what influences and let's call it that you know their own in their own platforms they don't have the physical experience um and that we know that physical experience is the key to be able to create habit creation so it's physical and digital together it's the true hybrid is what's gonna change our industry in my opinion yeah and you make such a point of it being that barrier broken down for somebody because it's true you don't really hear gym intimidation thrown around that often currently we will when it's January 2026 in the lead up to it because almost every single time when those consumer surveys go out and everyone's doing their listicles Buzzfeed etcetera it's kind of like what are your goals and everyone wants the same thing and one of the No. 1 reasons why they haven't done it is because they're intimidated and then we talk about it for five minutes and then it goes away and the new cycle continues so a really good point to highlight there obviously we can't talk content without AI I mean I'm a podcaster you do podcasting you know that right now you and I don't even need to be here there are things that exist that could have prompted the whole conversation taken our Avatar and be good to go so obviously being in the tech space you have such a future forward lens how is Wexar kind of integrating and ebb and flowing with these changes coming down the pipe with AI yeah I just I just I think I I don't know if it's AI well AI's agents are part of AI but it's agents that have really made me go ho OK this is special so you know so so we're we've already launching unique agents for particular health clubs to be able to work out their persona ratios um you know because there's there's like agents are so powerful in terms of understanding and predicting behaviour but you have to get quite localised um like you can even create you know agents within one particular health club in that particular location to then understand what the persona is but it's actually more than that they can actually understand retention rates and acquisition rates and all the rest of it based off it so you know that's where it's becoming really really powerful that we can essentially serve up the right content based off people's mood you know like at at the moment the scary thing that you know we're working on is is sentiment like in terms of you know if if we got facial recognition we can actually see based off how someone's delivering in that title what makes them happier or sad so therefore we can actually understand what they want to see cause cause no normal sounds like a casino well it's it's yeah but it we we're actually not that far away like we're testing that stuff now like and it's not on like amazing huge cameras that are unique it's like basic Logitech cameras that we essentially now can because of the the large language models we can work out the sentiment based off the facial reaction so it cause what what the issue that we have with content is we know that people follow people but sometimes when you follow that person they might feel certain parts cringe certain parts great but the overall is great versus things but we can start understanding those periods that they don't like um you know of what they say and what they do so we can actually give that feedback one to the content partner but we also can give that feedback to you that member to be able to go you actually like this you know you you don't like it when it gets I don't know when someone talks about burpees you know that's a classic one everyone's face goes hmm um I say so you like OK no true words have been spoken on this podcast yeah yeah exactly so so like let's like let's just take away burpees let's get burpees out of there cause it actually already brings the sentiment down so I'm talking quite large but I think I think the the the thing that's gonna be real real powerful is cause personalization and I I feel like everyone talks about hyper personalization but there's not actually a lot of outcomes hyper personalization is through agents through content and through using your club data is so powerful in terms of personalization like that that's a now thing that that can literally happen now um so and you just need to train the model to get more and more sophisticated and I think we'll have a world where every club have it has its own agents in terms of personalization and we're trying to really really lead the charge of that um you know it's hard to do it at scale is probably our challenge as a um as a global company with so many different operators um but I think you know as tech gets smarter and smarter we'll be able to do it better and better so you know yeah I I guess so excited for what that means for members again going back to the core of you know why we created Wexler in terms of you know supporting and inspiring individuals um through the use of technology like that that that literally is it I feel like agents is the moment that Wexler will be able to deliver that that premise far greater than we've ever been able to so um and that's no disrespect to the past it's just amazing what the technology's opened up yeah 100% it definitely doesn't take away from the past cause at the end I think everyone's just really aware how rapidly this technology is infiltrated not just on the b to B side of life but the average Joe that's walking the streets is part of everything that we do so it makes a lot of sense that it would be evolving with an exponent on it yes doesn't negate any of the hard work that came before this yes as we haha look ahead though I'm curious obviously when it comes to the fitness technology space and I don't want to put you two on the spot but we were having a little chat before we hopped on here and obviously we've seen a lot of MNA activity not just in the sass side but also on the gym side so what are things looking like right now from your perspective especially you've got global notches all over there yeah yeah yeah you are you want me to go play the Dinosaur card again hey um no look look we um there was too much capital that ran into many different companies uh from vcs from you know PE companies and and that's I think from a founder point of view being able to secure that amount of funding and not actually have a real runway to making a profitable business kind of put fuel on the fire so I think we had a lot of digital companies that were just trying to survive you know you saw how many people went B to C and then they went B to B and then all this type of stuff and I think uh you know I think the curtains finally closed on on that so so you know we're being the being the older the older technology company um you know we were in a really really good position to be able to start doing a hell of a lot of consolidation and I think you know reality is now where a lot of the VCP companies were saying no no no we still believe in the scalability of a lot of these a lot of these um digital fitness companies I think that sentiment's gone so I I think we'll we'll see a lot more consolidation I think that's a good thing you know because if we look at not to be negative but if if if we look at a lot of the migrations that we've done um a lot of the technology layers were a bit smoke and mirrors um in terms of still delivering it on the face of it and and my challenge to the industry would be you know when you're choosing a digital partner 1 make sure that they've got solid balance sheets um and and 2 make sure that you actually do the tech diligence right rather than just thinking it's working on the on on the front end so those are my two kind of challenges to the industry but I think what what that means for us and and I I I think companies like us is there's gonna be a lot of consolidation in the next 18 months for sure um because it's just the the opportunities are there and you know I think the sad thing is when it comes to technology migration you know buy buying a buying a physical health club it's you know okay there there's migration of the people and there's you gotta change the logo when there's migrations of a technology product that's actually quite difficult to do it seamlessly um so there'll be there'll be and I think that's what a lot of companies like works are weighing up in terms of the migration cost versus the purchase um and but I think everything's becoming more realistic in terms of uh people's buy price so yeah there's gonna be a lot of consolidation in the next 18 months especially from Wexler yeah no doubt well you did mention saying I don't want this to be negative with one of your comments so I'm gonna leave you the opportunity to send us on a high note but when you look at the future of fitness no one has a crystal ball but looking ahead what's exciting you most about fitness business as you look toward 2026 I I just think the tools that we have to deliver the premise of what the industry should do which is creating habit forming um long lasting um habits that people can change their lives if that's weight loss if it's weight gain if it's if it's getting fitter you know we've got the I think the supply network is a whole lot smarter I think the power of AI is just amplifying that in terms of what I've talked about with agents um and then I think we've got such a great exposure of different health club options now as well you know we've seen the the the high end and the low I think mid mid's gonna come back you know in terms of a better price point with with service levels so I just think I'm I'm actually so I'm probably more excited and I'm always the most optimist but I'm more excited now for the next 10 years than than I've ever been because you know if we if we think if we look at I I think this is our chance to change if we look at all the technological breakthroughs it has also grown obesity right um I think that's the reality and I think if we say we are the solution to that not GOP ones um if we're the solution to that then and actually commit to that as an industry man we we we we have the tools to be able to do it we just got to go do it and and and be aligned to do it and I think then we're looking every business is every business will fly um because we won't be looking at 15% penetrations we'll be looking at 30 to 40s and you know even just a small percent increase in in terms of societal penetration in terms of fitness means everyone everyone gains so I really really think that we're in a bit of a golden age um if we get it right um and if we can get everyone aligned to the right missions the right companies delivering the right products and I think you know consolidation is gonna help that to further grow our entire industry cause you know you think about our industry compared to you know cars etcetera etcetera we're such an immature industry and we've only gone through a few cycles so I think this is our cycle to really put a put us out on the map in terms of how much impact we add to society and uh so I'm really excited brilliant Paul Bowman thank you so much for taking time to join me on ETF W thank you so much for having me you've just listened to the all things fitness and wellness podcast hosted by Chrissy Van be sure to hit like and subscribe we have new podcast episodes weekly featuring industry insiders and influencers together we're on a mission for everyone to live a life fit and well