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The Catholic Sobriety Podcast
Welcome to The Catholic Sobriety Podcast with your host Christie Walker!
This podcast is dedicated to empowering Catholics to live lives of freedom by providing tips and tools to help them be successful as they reduce or eliminate alcohol consumption. Christie Walker, a compassionate Catholic life and sobriety coach, is here to support you on your journey toward a healthier, more fulfilling life.
Are you questioning whether alcohol has taken control of your life? Do you worry about the impact it may have on your well-being? Many people find themselves in this situation, fearing the loss of pleasure and stress relief associated with alcohol. They assume that giving it up will only bring deprivation and misery. But Christie offers a different and much more positive perspective.
With Christie's expertise, you'll discover the joy and peace that come from embracing a healthier lifestyle rooted in the Catholic faith and tradition.
Ready to get curious? Start listening!
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The Catholic Sobriety Podcast
Ep 116: Unlocking the Power of Charisms for a Purpose-Driven Life w/ Guest Jill Simons
Imagine discovering a hidden potential within yourself that not only transforms your life but also impacts those around you. That's exactly what Jill Simons, a celebrated Catholic author and speaker, experienced when she uncovered her charisms. In this enlightening episode of the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, Jill shares her journey of embracing these unique spiritual gifts, leading her to close her business, Pink Salt Riot, and dedicate herself fully to Many Parts Ministries. Through personal stories, Jill and I discuss how recognizing and nurturing our charisms can open doors to new opportunities and align us with our true purpose.
The episode delves into the profound impact the Holy Spirit's gifts can have on our lives, particularly focusing on charisms that serve others and strengthen the church. We explore the distinction between spiritual gifts and charisms, and how this understanding can be particularly empowering for women facing challenges such as addiction. By aligning with our God-given gifts, we can overcome obstacles and foster deeper connections within our communities.
Throughout our discussion, we emphasize the importance of regularly revisiting and discerning your charisms, particularly during significant life changes. From stay-at-home moms finding purpose through music to nurses uncovering their true calling, the episode is filled with anecdotes that illustrate the transformative power of charisms in personal and professional environments. As a Catholic sobriety coach, I also share insights on how these spiritual gifts can provide clarity and direction on the path to alcohol freedom.
Join us in exploring how embracing your unique charisms can lead to a life filled with purpose, fulfillment, and joy.
You can find Jill at...
Many Parts Ministry: https://www.manypartsministries.com/
Pink Salt Riot (closing soon): https://pinksaltriot.com/
Charisms for Catholics Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/charisms-for-catholics/id1688464564
Join me in the FIRE50 Challenge, a FREE 50-day spiritual journey focused on deepening your connection with the Holy Spirit. You'll explore daily practices, discover our unique charisms, and grow in community with others seeking God's presence in their lives.
This is your chance to awaken new possibilities, and experience the transforming power of the Holy Spirit.
I'm here for you. I'm praying for you. You are NOT alone!
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Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the go-to resource for women seeking to have a deeper understanding of the role alcohol plays in their lives, Women who are looking to drink less or not at all for any reason. I am your host, Christi Walker. I'm a wife, mom and a joy-filled Catholic, and I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach, and I am so glad you're here Today. We are going to talk about our supernatural superpowers, our charisms. If you don't know what charisms are, you are in the right place, because today, my Jill Simons is here to explain all of it, and she's also going to help you learn how you can find out what your charisms are, and her ministry can help guide you if you want to continue to find out more about your charisms and how they can impact your life and your faith and your community.
Speaker 1:Jill Simons is a Catholic author and speaker. Her books include the Essential Handbook on Living your Charisms, Passion and Purpose, Charisms for Teens and Open your Gifts. She is executive director of Many Parts Ministries a lay apostolate that empowers Catholics to understand and embrace their unique roles in the church through charism, discernment and commitment. She is also host of the Charisms for Catholics podcast. She is a wife mama for enjoying family life in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Jill is also the owner of Pink Salt Riot, so if you've bought things from there or seen her beautiful things, then her name is going to sound very familiar to you. But it's closing soon, so I'm going to have Jill tell you all about that and how you can get some really amazing deals. So welcome Jill, it's so good to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Christy. It's a joy to be here.
Speaker 1:Why don't we go ahead and you can just first tell us about what's going on with Pink Salt Riot and then we'll dive into our charisms talks?
Speaker 2:charisms talks? Yeah, definitely, it's definitely connected because it's been through the journey of honing in on what is very specifically most important in my life right now, that the Holy Spirit's leading me to that has led to the decision to close Pink Salt Riot. So for many years almost a decade now my primary charisms which as a functional definition really means just unique spiritual graces given to an individual to be able to build the church those things for me had been writing and leadership and craftsmanship, and so Pink Salt Rite was a great vehicle to do those things. We create products that help Christian women of all denominations embrace their God-given identity, that are really beautiful and really functional on that front and that used my charisms really well for a long time. But as many parts ministries, which is the lay apostolate that you mentioned, is growing, it's been really clear how there's been a shift in what charisms are primary in my life right now, and so I'm really trying to practice what I preach, walk the walk, not just talk the talk and actually making that space, saying the no that we talk about, saying a lot to the good to make way for the best. Yes, and so Many Parts Ministries is really clearly my best.
Speaker 2:Yes, right now, and though it's hard and scary on a lot of different fronts, kind of bad on a lot of different fronts, to let go of Pink Salt Riot, it's really clear that if I did not, I would be diluting what it is that the Holy Spirit is inviting me into right now.
Speaker 2:So kind of the way that you all listening can benefit from that is that we're having our going out of business sale right now. We've got really crazy bargain discounts on everything through the end of February and then in the month of March, just the 1st to the 15th we're going to have mystery boxes available and we'd love to have you be able to take some of those things that are still really beautiful and really functional but just not where the Lord is really calling me to invest myself right now. We'd love your support because anyone that shops our closing sale, that money is just going directly into really kind of the seed fund startup money to continue to grow this charism discernment ministry that we're going to be talking primarily about today. So if you desire to invest in this in some way, that's a really great way for you to do that.
Speaker 1:Thank you for letting us know all about that. And then a few things. A couple of things came up as you were talking. I will tell you that I learned about charisms I don't know, maybe five or six years. No, it's probably been about six or seven years ago. We had a couple of women from the St Catherine of Siena Institute come and speak to us Sherry Weddle was one of the women who started that and I had never heard of charisms.
Speaker 1:I didn't really know what it was, because I come from more of a traditional, not a charismatic, background, I should say. So I didn't really understand what that was, but I was really excited about it. The Holy Spirit was just like nudging me. I invited my mom to it and I took their very detailed. It's kind of a hard assessment actually to take, but I took that very detailed assessment and came away with some things. And I have to tell you that and my family always says I'm dramatic, but I will tell you it transformed my life, like really literally transformed my life, not in that exact moment, but in the years as it unfolded and learning like, ok, well, this is a charism that's presenting what do I do with it or how do. I use it.
Speaker 1:So in that journey, which is actually what got me doing what I do today I used to do digital marketing and I just felt God calling me to more. I had to let go of steady income and all of that to pursue sobriety, coaching, podcasting, all these things. And I tell people all the time we have to say no to something so that we can say yes to something better, and that is so in line with the work that I do with alcohol. We say no to alcohol so that we can say yes to something better, for being present, for not just numbing out of life, and so I love that you brought that up and that you shared your journey with Pink Salt Riot and how this very successful business that you've had for years and years and years you are letting go of. And yes, it's scary, yes, you know it feels probably very unsafe, but at the same time, you know that God's got you and he's equipped you. So thank you so much for sharing that part.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think that that's where the rubber meets the road. For a lot of people right and that's 100% what you see in sobriety coaching, I'm sure is the people where, obviously, first step is realizing that this isn't the fit that you're desiring. But there is a large fall off between the number of people who recognize that it's not a fit and the people that are like so I'm going to go find something else to do. I think I'm actually going to let go of this so that I could discover what else it could be.
Speaker 2:And that is so much like where, in this process, though, our charisms are for other people, our purpose is for other people, we need to provide something.
Speaker 2:That is how we become spiritually formed through the process is those places that we really have to grow in virtue, because doing the thing in your charism specifically so this might apply less to the sobriety side of things, but in your charisms, doing the thing you're supposed to do is quite easy in a lot of cases, enjoyable, effortless in a lot of ways, not universally, but largely so.
Speaker 2:Doing the charism work that I do is not challenging in terms of, like I've really got to slog through it, or something like that. The challenge is in what I believe is how things have to be, what I've experienced before, what it is that I you know the thoughts that I have about what God can and cannot do for me, and it just invites us into such a place that goes hand in hand with coaching. So well, we actually form coaches in parts to be able to help people discern their charisms, because a lot of thoughts that are kind of around all of this, and a lot of times it's really necessary for people to look at and examine those thoughts the same way that you would in these other pivotal life changes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and I love the work that you're doing. I actually, when I started out, thought I want to be a spiritual gifts coach, and that's like what I started as. Actually, before we really dig into it, why don't you go ahead and explain the difference? Because when we talk about charisms and gifts of the Holy Spirit and everything and fruits and all that, it can get very confusing. So can you just briefly explain what the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the fruits of the Holy Spirit and charisms, how they're different and how they help us and others? Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So gifts of the Holy Spirit, which you were probably drilled on when you were going through confirmation prep whenever that was are things that are given to everybody. So these are the functional tools that everybody needs for their personal life of faith. So, said another way, gifts of the Holy Spirit are for you. You need it to do what you need to do.
Speaker 2:When you look at charisms, those are things that you are given to be able to hand out to other people, to give to other people. So it's not a gift that you receive for you, it's a gift that you receive for other people, and because of that we get different ones. So we all receive the same gifts of the Spirit when we receive the sacraments, especially when we're confirmed, but people receive different charisms to be able to give those things to other people. And then the fruits of the Holy Spirit are just like the fruits on a tree or something like that. Those are the things that we use to discern if the Holy Spirit is present. So we are living in the gifts of the Holy Spirit in our person. If we are using our charisms of the Holy Spirit to give to other people, we would expect fruits of the Holy Spirit to come out the other side, because that shows us that the Holy Spirit is really the active principle in what is going on there.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you so much, because it can get kind of confusing and kind of muddled, but I love that. It's like the gifts strengthen us, equip us and help us and the charisms are for other people and building up the church, building up the kingdom, are for other people and building up the church, building up the kingdom. And when you look at the different charisms and there's a lot like how many do you have on your assessment, we assess for 24.
Speaker 2:We teach on 26 because speaking in tongues so not praying in tongues, but speaking in tongues and interpreting those spoken tongues are also clear charisms of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. But we always joke that you probably don't need a test to know if you can do that pretty authoritatively one way or the other. Now, just as I mentioned that, the praying in the Holy Spirit is a lot more like the gifts of the Holy Spirit, where the prayer is kind of you praying and you being able to have that relationship with God praying and you being able to have that relationship with God, where what we're looking for as a charism is where you feel called to speak to other people using the gifted tongues and it's much more irregular to see, even amongst the people involved in that charismatic renewal.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you so much for clarifying that. So how do you think that a woman who is listening to this you know most of the people that are listening are realizing that maybe alcohol is becoming a problem for them, it's causing a little bit of chaos in their lives could be a disordered attachment that they're really having to untangle themselves from? So how can our spiritual gifts and I'm talking generally, you know, like our charisms, yes, but also our gifts of the Holy Spirit how can those help her find freedom in Christ?
Speaker 2:the thing that really is enough reason to change for a lot of people I don't know how many people whether it's with sobriety around alcohol, whether it's around gambling. I have experience with pornography, addictions and things like that kind of the whole gamut of habitual things that really interrupt our ability to be the men and women that we desire to be. So often the impetus for change becomes the effect that we start seeing we are having on other people. A lot of times it's really challenging for us to choose to change for ourselves and only for ourselves. So often it is what we see happening in other people and that can also lead to a lot of lies that the devil really likes to dig in, with that vulnerable state of dependency, saying that we're only and always and forever going to be a negative impact or negative influence on that person, and that's just patently untrue. Like that goes against everything that the Lord says about us, which is unchanged, based on what habitual things we might struggle with. It's really important that we recognize that lie, but it can be challenging to see it as a lie if we're not perceiving that we are able to be effective and to be helpful and to be contributory to other people in our lives and our charisms, no matter whether we are honestly and it is one of the most challenging parts of the theology is that whether we are in a state of grace or not, we have our charisms and we have access to them. That's one of the kind of weird things about charisms specifically is that it is not something that is dependent on how close we are to God or how good we are or how well we've performed. This is something that we've been given simply by the virtue of our baptism and our openness to receive grace. So even if maybe we're not in a state of grace, maybe we are struggling with something that's a constant issue, that does not impede our ability to use and practice these charisms and move towards places where we can see the Holy Spirit moving through us, we can see us having a positive effect and we can gather that evidence that really there is a larger purpose for us, not just, you know, for ourselves, but for other people, and I think that that's key evidence for a lot of people that they are. You know, sounds kind of negative to couch it this way, but they are worth saving, like and, of course, everyone else. But whether or not we, as the people with those struggles, can internalize. That or not is kind of what varies.
Speaker 2:And so this becomes a place where I've had a lot of people I've worked with have profound experiences of once they recognize like this is something that's coming from the Holy Spirit, and then they use that thing and then they see the effect it has and they're just like, oh my gosh, the fact that I was like a functional piece of that puzzle right becomes that evidence that it actually does matter that I'm here.
Speaker 2:It actually does matter that I'm, you know, mentally and emotionally available through my life and not in a state where I'm not able to be as responsive or something like that. And I think that those things are part of the whole puzzle that can help people find the freedom that they're seeking in seeking sobriety. And it's an important piece of the puzzle because just kind of putting people in a silo and being like, well, you need to do it for you or just it needs to be a willpower thing or something like that, is not where people are finding success. People are finding success when they are able to address the thoughts, able to address the lies and actually have physical evidence that they are, that if they do remove this from their life, they are moving in a positive direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's all so important and I think a lot of, so a lot of the women that I work with, like they are faithful Catholics, like they go to mass every Sunday, they go to daily mass, they go to adoration, they are constantly in reconciliation, and so I really appreciate what you're saying, because sometimes we can think, well, god couldn't work through me, or he's not here because we don't see him, because you know we have that veil up, or we don't, we have that unworthiness to even approach him. And so I really appreciate all of that that you said, because it's such an encouragement and it's a beautiful reminder that we just have to tap into that. It's like I heard at my twins when they did their confirmation, and I've heard it since then the bishop was saying, like your gifts are like this gift, they're wrapped, but it's up to you to unwrap them. So it's up to you to ask for the gift of wisdom and knowledge and counsel, and you know all of those. And then, knowing your charisms which that's what you help people with that helps them know, like, what to say no to and what they can say yes to. Like, for example, if you're a person like me that has trouble saying no to people, that sweet ladies that come up to you at church and they ask you to be part of their hospitality committee.
Speaker 1:That happened to me and I do not really like hospitality committee, but I did it because I felt like, oh, these women have supported me, encouraged me and all this. And then I was like you know what? It's just not what is my care is? It's just not because of my charisms, it's just not because it was a slog and you alluded to this earlier Like when you are using your charisms it's effortless, it even energizes. You. Like, if I am writing something where I'm teaching or encouraging or you know all of those types of things, it just I can just like power it out and then I look at it and I'm like, how did I do that? Did I just write all that? And you know it was the Holy Spirit just working through me through those different charisms, whether you know, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:The other thing is, you know, like some of the women that I work with are moms that are homeschooling, they have young children. And like some of the women that I work with are moms that are homeschooling, they have young children. And then some of the women that I work with are retired. They're kind of like what is my purpose now, like their kids are gone, they're not working anymore and it's kind of like what is my purpose? And the moms with the young kids and you and I have both been there are kind of like I in the trenches, like what I can't go out and like use these charisms for other people, but they are using them. So can you talk a little bit about the different seasons of life and our charisms, Because they, they we will have different ones present at different times. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:So we talk we typically talk about this in terms of primacy. So like this is a situation of like I need last year's birthday present back before I can give you this year's. You know the Lord doesn't like take these things back, but it really follows the model in the parable of the talents, where you know the people that steward well what's been given to them are given more and given new things. If we haven't been paying attention or haven't really been stewarding things, it's a lot more common for people to stay kind of in the same ones for a longer period of time because the Lord's like anytime you want to use these and grow in these, I'd love to continue to grow with you, but he also meets you where you're at, and so the personality of that primacy is really important to be aware of. So we encourage people to use our resources, our tools to just re-look at after you've done kind of a primary discernment of your charisms the first time that you've ever done it. To just revisit every two to three years is a good kind of benchmark, and if you don't want to do it that often, that's fine. We're in a completely new state now or all my children have gone to college, or I'm becoming a mom for the first time and I'm going to be a new stay-at-home mom, or these different functional changes in season is a great time to just take some time to really look at, like, what is it that the Holy Spirit is doing right now? And when we do that we are able to better connect with the individual instances of what the Holy Spirit is doing. Because I think that and it's it seems like if there was really something supernatural going on, that it would be like super readily apparent and we would know it right away and we would be like, oh for sure, I'm going to move in this direction People are extremely quick to denigrate the supernatural nature of the gifts that they personally have been given.
Speaker 2:So's really good to use kind of that third party of an assessment tool to be a little bit more objective about what it is that's happening in your life and then to recognize that you're serving the church when you're using anything at any level of the church and the domestic, the family, is the domestic. Church called that for a reason and that there is an episode, there is a way of using every charism at every level of the church and that is, you know, family of two, like newly married husband and wife, all the way up to like at the Vatican. There is not sort of thresholds you have to cross of how many people or something like that, before you're really using your charism or something like that, when we're not using them. The only time we're not using them, I should say, is if we're keeping them to ourselves. If we're being that person in the pair of the towns who like literally buries it. It's like I'm going divly say no, avoid this, whatever, try and keep it from popping up because of whatever fear or whatever reason is going on there. So I've met so many people.
Speaker 2:This is such a classic example, I think, for stay-at-home moms and obviously there's different things going on at different points in life but for stay-at-home moms it's so common I've had this probably maybe 30 times where there's a stay-at-home mom with a charism of music and they're like well, I used to canter, I used to be in the choir or whatever, but two-year-old Susie is going to be just like mommy, mommy, mommy. If I try that now you know. And so what am I supposed to do? And it's important to recognize that it's serving the church just as much for you to choose to sing in the car instead of playing the radio, when that is the church that you've been given in this season to minister to and I've had so many women. I was just like, do you think you could just sing more when it's music, or do do you think you could pick up that instrument that is where your music charism kind of lives and use that instrument in your home and they're like I mean, I guess like I probably could, and come to kind of come back to me or I come to find out. They're like the home is completely different now because there's a road of grace into it that I could have opened up at any time. I just didn't even recognize. That was a road of grace available to me, one of my favorite stories that I've told on lots of other podcasts. So if you've heard this story before, I apologize.
Speaker 2:But briefly, there were women that were both RNs and they both wanted to stop being RNs. So they came to me like let's discern our charisms, let's figure out what else we're supposed to do, because this ain't it. And both discerned their charisms, had totally different charisms. One of them, her primary charism, was healing, and she realized she was so sick and tired of being an RN because it took a Herculean amount of effort to hold back the Holy Spirit every single day when he was prompting her to pray for healing with people and to step out in the more miraculous forms of healing. And she was actually at a Catholic hospital. So she was able to go to her spirit and say, could I offer to pray with people? Obviously not against anybody's will, but last time I had talked to her, no one had ever said no, like, regardless of faith, regardless of anything else. No one had ever said no. And they started calling her the express lane because people were seeing these incredible healings happen and she's like this is the best job in the entire world, same job that she was about ready to leave. And then the other RN didn't even have healing, not on the table at all, like red. You know, on our assessment there's like red, it was red, but her primary was hospitality and she was an ICU nurse and she realized that she was there to make people feel at home and welcome in the most terrifying room of their lives. And as soon as she realized that, like, everything else she did as an RN was secondary to that like, of course she was still operating with medical excellence and things like that, but it was like that wasn't why she was in the room anymore. She, she, loved being an RN too, and both of them stayed in their exact same job and absolutely loved it, and nothing changed except for their recognition of what it was that they were bringing into the rooms that they were in.
Speaker 2:And I think that this is something though I don't have like personal stories of this I think that this is something that maps so well to the sobriety journey, especially when it begins as a desire to kind of numb the state of affairs that you find yourself in. And there's a myriad reasons that that can be the case. But when we start to recognize maybe the state of affairs is a little different than I recognize, or could very quickly and easily be different than I recognize some of that need can dissipate a little bit. Some of that impetus to go to those things that kind of help us escape can dissipate. So that's another way where that clarity of purpose can really speak into these journeys that we're going on to find greater freedom.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing those examples. Those are such good examples because it is as you are talking. The word that came is purpose. Like all of a sudden they knew their purpose in that role. What they thought was their purpose, wasn't it? And I mean, yes, like you said, that was secondary, but their main purpose, their God-given purpose, was those other things, and that is such a beautiful example. So sometimes I have women that again, they're church. You know, church going, adoration, going all these things and we talk a lot about, like our identity. I talk about this in my sacred sobriety lab and my clients and I work together on it a lot, but I noticed just lack that knowing of their true identity in Christ. Instead, a lot of times we place our identity in labels or in things we do or in jobs we have or in roles that we fill, but that is not what our true identity is. So can you explain how knowing our gifts and everything can really help them embrace their true identity? Because I think that's where freedom lies right?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. So this is actually like a foundational, functional part of how we do charism discernment. So we, as you've alluded to, there's a variety of like other tools available and things like that. I want people to just discern their charisms. I'd love to help you, but if you find other things that work, like great, I just I want the church to know their charism. But what is unique in our approach that I think is so helpful for people is a few things, but one of the primary things is that we include identity as an aspect of really what we assess in people. So, on our charism assessment, which kind of narrows down what your most likely charisms are, we also ask you questions that really get at where are you at in receiving your identity from God, because how you look at charisms and what you need to do with your charisms is going to vary based on that stage. So it really falls into three stages and this is something we see like pick your favorite saint, whoever. We can map these three stages of identity in everyone, because we go through the same kind of growth that you go through in human childhood development, where you have the early years where you don't do a whole lot. You don't contribute a whole lot, but a lot of people love you and if they don't, then that's problematic for you and you need that foundation of knowing that you're loved before you've done anything. I've got a two-year-old and a four-year-old right now and I mean you could ask any member of the family. They're everybody's favorite members of the family. They don't cook anything or make anything of the family. They don't cook anything or make anything. They're just loved for who they are and that's like just that's exactly how it should be. And then I have a seven-year-old and I have a 10-year-old and these older children they move into a place where they do know that they are loved and part of them actually responding to that love is doing their chores in the family, contributing to the family, serving the family. Not because they'll doing their chores in the family, contributing to the family, serving the family, not because they'll get kicked out of the family if they don't, but because it's also just for them to look for age-appropriate ways to kind of re-pour into the family to express the love that they have for the family. And that is exactly what our charisms are. They are the chores that we have been assigned in the family of God. These are the things that we get to do. That famous parent line like you don't have to, you get to. We get to do to show everybody else in the church that we love them, that they're good and we want to contribute to them and we want to receive their contribution back.
Speaker 2:And then, in the final stage of identity, we kind of move into. It breaks the analogy just a little bit, because in the world right, grow into maturity, where you become independent, where you don't need the structures, but in the faith life you become more dependent. You've been given many more of the gifts, but the dependency on God becomes more and more granular and the things he asks you to do get crazier and crazier, so that you really are needing to grow in courage to be able to say the yes. This was the running to the grounds, my extremely successful company, to be able to do something that currently doesn't pay me, so that I can say yes to the bigger doesn't pay me, so that I can say yes to the bigger, courageous asks. And so these three stages are all included on our assessment.
Speaker 2:Where do you fall and what are our recommendations for you, based on where you fall and if people do fall in that first stage of identity, the most important thing is that there's zero judgment about that. I've had people in their 90s fall in the first stage of identity. I've had, you know, 17 year olds fall in the first stage of identity. I've had you know 17 year olds fall in the third stage of identity. So this is not an age thing. This is not a like whether you've achieved something or not. This is just where you are, and where you are is the only place that you can be at this moment. Jesus surprised about you are, and he's also not disappointed about where you are, but he is constantly standing right there, ready, like whenever you would like to move forward. I am here for that, I am ready for that.
Speaker 2:And so the most important thing, in the first phase of identity, when we really haven't encountered Christ, when we really don't know who we are in him, it's so important that we never partake in our charisms as new ways to prove and perform that we have value.
Speaker 2:And I think that that's really the big and really the only danger quote unquote around using our charisms in that stage. Now, on the flip side of that, just like you can have someone in a bad situation. There's kind of the two roads out. Right, I'm going to perpetuate that cycle, or I'm never going to be a part of a cycle like that, because I've seen how negative it is and that is a choice that the individual gets to make. The same thing happens in that first stage of identity, where we can choose to look at our charisms with that same negative lens of like I don't have any value, so I'm going to use these things that I'm functionally good at to try and earn my value, or I'm going to let these things be the things that actually highlight for me, put a magnifying glass on where those lies are and what the thoughts that I'm struggling with actually are, so that when they are highlighted, I can uproot them, and that actually can how I'm able to grow and progress in that journey of identity.
Speaker 1:That's so good.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you mentioned that because those lies we believe and you know it says.
Speaker 1:I was reading, it was in my Bible and the author was saying like the devil tempts us to sin, you know, tempting somebody to drink or do whatever you know that they don't want to do or know that they shouldn't do, into that vice, and like saying like you deserve it and all these things, and then as soon as they do it, then he just rips on them right, like you are an awful person and just like shames, condemns and all of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:And so I love that you're pointing out that like knowing these gifts working within them, staying connected, is going to help root out those lies and when those lies come you can recognize it right. And so that's working within your charisms knowing that but also reading scripture, reading those truths. We talk a lot in my Sacred Sobriety Lab about declarations, so like speaking God's truth over yourself to root out the lies of the enemy, because it's like it's real, Some of it's our thoughts but some of it is from the enemy, and so it's really good to be able to recognize that and be able to say no. I also love the visual of Jesus just being there, like whenever you're ready.
Speaker 2:Yep, one of the coolest prophetic. So prophecy is one of my current primary charisms. One of the coolest prophetic words I ever received for someone was for a young man who was in a really solid place in his faith. So we would probably call it like identity stage two. What happens a lot in the second stage of identity is people are not having any functional pain, there's not any major discomfort, like they know that God loves them and things like that.
Speaker 2:The biggest temptation is really that complacency of just like I'm good with this, this is pretty functionally comfortable and it was so interesting because this young man was sort of in that place and I got this image. That's actually like he worked on like hazmat towing, so the chemicals that he would transport were done through these machines that I had never seen before. So that was actually really beautiful. The way that the Lord kind of validated the word for him is that I was able to explain these machines that I'd never seen before that are used in hazmat trucking and there's essentially like a kind of gauge or a way that they meter the flow of these things, and in the image the Lord was just standing there with a hand on that wheel that ran the gauge, which is like, if you ever want me to open it up, like just let me know. And for that young man it was so empowering to be like okay, like there's really that doing with God instead of like doing for God aspect of these things, and I think that really concretized that for him, so that he was aware of his agency, to be able to be like let's have a little bit more, like coming now I'm ready for a little bit more, or I don't think I'm where that's where I'm at now, but Christ was so serene in that like there was no impatience in Christ in there, and I think that that's something that we ascribe to him incorrectly so often is that God is like, oh my gosh, this is taking her a really long time, like I'm very frustrated and that's never the case.
Speaker 2:I'm actually I'm working on a book right now about saintsisms in the lives of the saints, pulling out a bunch of saints, and I'm working right now on saint mark, whose last name I don't want to butcher, but the chinese saint who was an opium addict and never bought, and obviously that's the the never getting clean heart isn't what we aspire to.
Speaker 2:It's the fact that he like, never stopped hoping, never stopped pursuing sobriety, and he didn't reach that in his life, but he never, ever lost the heroic hope that is a mark of his sainthood and it's just a really beautiful story of, and the charism I've been writing about him for is faith that, the faith that, even though I am not healed in this moment, that I could still be and ultimately will be, no matter what, because it's really just a question of the timeline of healing if we're seeking Christ, that it could be miraculously in this moment, in the fullness of time here on earth, but it's 100% going to be before I walk through those gates into heaven, and so it's not a question of if, it's a question of when.
Speaker 1:I love that and I have read about that saint before and he's not like a very well-known one, and so I'm glad that you're including him in your book. But you're right, I mean, and that can be with all kinds of healing, right, it's not just addiction, it could be like physical healing. Sometimes people just don't get healed, but it's not for nothing. Like there are things that we learn and others learn through us, and you know, people can bless us or be a blessing to us as well, and so I think that that's a really good reminder. And, yeah, definitely faith and hope that he had is just amazing and incredible. The last thing I just want to talk about that was so interesting to me. So you and I are both involved in Encounter School of Ministries and I had a really hard time with it in the beginning because it's very. There's some very charismatic aspects to it and those can be, you know, the the Holy Spirit can manifest in us in ways that most of a lot of us Catholics aren't used to, and so when I would see people like being slain in the spirit or speaking in tongues or those types of things, I got very uncomfortable. And I talked to a deacon friend of mine who's also involved in Encounter and I'm like I just don't want to do that, like I just don't want to look like that or do that, and he's like it be because of the counterfeit version of intoxication that you struggled with. And I'm like 100% because when you read, obviously in Acts, chapter two, right, are these men drunk? Like what's wrong with them? And Peter's like no, no, no, it's only nine o'clock, like we're good, but they thought that they were. But it's true and and you know I've and I still don't, am not 100% comfortable with it.
Speaker 1:But now that I understand like that counterfeit version of being intoxicated, not having control of my words or my body or those types of things, that was essentially a perverted version of what we have in the Holy Spirit, because one of I was at the national conference and one of my teachers and friends at Encounter got the the spirit of joy, like the charism of joy, just like poured out over her and she just giggled for like hours and it was just like, but you think of that, you know, with with alcohol as well. And then, um, patrick reese did a uh talk on that and it was interesting because he was talking about how, when we are intoxicated with the holy spirit, or when we're seeking intoxication with the holy spirit, we're seeking it through substances, whether it's alcohol or other substances but what we're really seeking is the Holy Spirit. Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think that that's you know. It points to the fact that the devil can't ever be creative, right? He can't like come up with his own thing because he can't make anything. And so that's what we see across the board, right? Whether it's sexual ethics or things like how we use substances and things like that. He's always looking at how God has created things to be so good, such good experiences for us. And how can he use our desire for those things, the desire that we have to be like fully received by another person, and just put that in a kind of a profane context so that it's something that draws us away from God instead of drawing us towards God? And I think that it's really important to recognize that God doesn't like just like. He stands there patiently waiting for us. He also meets us where we're at.
Speaker 2:So I always tell people when they're taking the assessment and they'll get all nervous about different charisms that they're just like, please, not that way, similar to your experience where it's just like, please, not that like, don't have that happen Then that's not what you're at right now, like that is. And that's not to say we don't want to limit what the Holy Spirit can do in us for the future. That's not a forever state of affairs, but also, like that is very true, expression of where we are currently at is something that the Lord knows more intimately than you do. And so I have people that are just like, oh my gosh, like don't, please, don't make it be mercy. I don't want to have to like talk to people that I like I'm terrified of. And you know, I'm a tiny little. I have this sweet little, like 19 year old Asian girl. She's like I'm terrified of like having to go up to people and I was like sweetie it's probably not what the call is right now, and that is okay.
Speaker 2:It is very fair to be honest with God about things. The same way that you desire your own child to be honest with you about this situation makes me uncomfortable. That's something where, if it's necessary, we're going to really meter their introduction to that or we're going to be very present with them in that, but if it's not necessary, if it's something that's optional, then that's not what we're going to push them to do. And I think so often about you know, if you that are evil are able to give good gifts to your children, how much more is your father in heaven able to give good gifts to you, and this applies to things like this. And so I think that anytime there's fear in those things, that's where we have that opportunity to really further experience our identity, maybe even before we felt it, to just choose, use our will and our brains to be like, okay, I'm going to trust that you're not going to put me in this position that I'm not ready for in experiencing your grace, and if you do put me there, that you're going to be right with me. And afterwards I'm going to be like, okay, now, now that makes sense, or now I'm with you on what that was about.
Speaker 2:I couldn't have understood it before. Really, it's just anywhere that there's fear, there's something like the devil doing something right, because we should not be experiencing any fear, and so that's never meant to be a shameful thing. That's a red flag. Like Jesus, I'm afraid. Why? What am I afraid of? What's going on Like? What is it that I think is going to happen? That's a place for curiosity, right, the way we always talk about in coaching. That's a place for curiosity that then takes all the teeth out of it, so that we can really interact with Jesus about what's really going on there.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you for that explanation. I think that's going to be so hopeful for a lot of people. So your book Open your Gifts is that a resource that can help somebody? So let's say that they've taken an assessment somewhere else or they take your assessment Is that a book that will help them be able? Because once you take the assessment and it's like here are your charisms like. It doesn't 100% mean those are your charisms right. It means that now it's your turn to go test them out, ask other people what they've seen. You think about how people have complimented you. Does this book help with that, or what is it about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. One of the unique things about our assessment is we've included the identity, like I talked about earlier. But you also receive a full PDF report at the end. So most other assessments, you take them and you have to do some math on the last page and it kind of gives you some numbers and without a lot of context. That can be kind of like cool. So when all that processing for you and we actually create it's usually like 21 pages or so PDF for you that very minutely walks you through like here's where you're at in identity, here's what that means. Here is detailed information about your top six, here's what you do next to kind of discern them, and it very much gives you the introductory information that you need. And so if you are a personality type like me where I'm just like, yes, let's just be curious and figure things, that assessment report is going to be more than enough to kind of set you on your merry way to be able to discern your charisms. But some of my dearest friends are extremely like no, tell me exactly what to do Incredible women. And so I wrote this book for them. Is really that like no, tell me step by step and like day by day and what exactly do I need to do, and so that's what Open your Gifts is going to do. If you really really like having your hand held walk through things, that's going to be super helpful.
Speaker 2:If you're more of a free spirit like me and like to do your own thing, the book I would really recommend is the Essential Handbook on Living your Charisms, because that is really just a comprehensive reference book that's going to be helpful while you're discerning, but it really was designed for after you have discerned and you're looking at how do I sustainably use and live in these charisms? Because it's very easy to talk about charism, discernment so much. That's the primary thing people talk about and like half a percent of people talk about like, when you have it, what do you do? But that's where you spend the majority of your life is in having it and not questioning it. So that's what that book is for, and one of the pieces in the Essential Handbook on Living your Charisms is actually it's broken down by charism and it lists some of the lies that are sort of unique to that.
Speaker 2:Really, looking specifically at you know, when you have the charism of discernment, understanding the spiritual source of things, one of the lies can be just that you are insane like that. You're a crazy person because you are seeing things that's not there and hearing things that are not there, and that's where you have to be disciplined. It's like, nope, I am not crazy. Like I know, I'm not crazy. The Lord, you know, in the name of Jesus, the Lord shows me the spiritual reality of things for the good of the church and he's going to teach me what I need to know to be able to steward that. And that's where we have to be willing to kind of put in effort Based on your personality type. We also have a lot of people that will do both, because they want the step-by-step for discernment and then they use the reference in the long run.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's so good, that's so helpful. I love that it has the lies associated with it. I actually do have the discernment, the gift of discernment of spirits. My husband has told me like you're crazy, not that I saw something like physically, but that those feelings or those you know what some people would say an intuition but it's really the Holy Spirit like speaking into me and I have thought, like am I just crazy? And so I'm so glad that you put that out, because then once I realized, like oh, this is actually something from God that God gave me to help others, I'm like, oh, my goodness, like this is so freeing and it makes you feel so much better. It's just like finding out that I was not, I didn't have hospitality as my charism.
Speaker 2:I'm like yippee, like good, I don't need to do that absolutely I'm kind of in my parish for them being like well, you know, will you volunteer with bbs? And just being like no, thank you. And people like usually like say they're gonna check their calendar or something you know of, like frame it somehow. But I don't have to be busy to say no to things that aren't for me, because it is important that I remain free to say those, say yes really freely to those things that the Lord does have for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's so helpful to just as you were speaking about that, because so many of the women that I work with, they're just overwhelmed, they are super busy. They are doing all these things and so when you kind of know your charisms, your purpose, your identity, you can look at those things and say what are some things I don't need to be doing. That's some of the stuff I do with my clients too. It's like you say you have this, this, this, like all these things, and it's stressing you out and at the end of the night all you want to do is sit on the couch and have a glass of wine or two, or a bottle, and that's not going to be sustainable. So let's think about all of these things that you're doing.
Speaker 1:If they take your assessment, then they're going to know like, well, this is within my charism, this is why I like doing it, this is why I'm so energized when I'm doing it. And then they know like they can say, no, I'm not going to be manning the bake sale table, or no, I'm not going to do X, y, z. One of mine is definitely not administration, but one of my friends hers is administration and she was a little sad. I'm like, no, you're needed and you help. We all help each other, so I think that's so good. Oh my gosh, so this has been such a good conversation. I want to be respectful of your time. But, jill, can you just tell people where they can find that assessment, where they can find you and all the different ways you can help them, just anything, and I'll put links to everything in my show notes as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, as I mentioned at the beginning, I'll just plug it one more time. If you would like to support this ministry growing Many Parts Ministries that helps people know their charisms the best way you can do that right now is to shop our closing sale at Pink Salt Riot in addition to buying our books and assessments and things like that. But the sale at the Pink Salt Riot is definitely the most fun way right now. So it would be unfair for me to kind of slight that. But if you're interested in knowing your own charisms, you can go to manypartsministriescom. Our assessment and all of our other resources are linked there. You can buy physical copies of our books. We can also just buy e-book copies of any of the books that we have, and we would love the Spirit to provide everything else.
Speaker 2:What we're doing when we say yes to something that isn't for us is we're like, oh gosh, holy Spirit might not provide here. I'll just do it, I'll just jump in and like, stop, gap the Holy Spirit, because I'm not really sure he's going to come through this time. And we have a vision for a church where we do not do that anymore, where we say we are clear on this is where we fit. This is what we have to offer If we don't have something to offer that we need. That is when all of us know immediately to just go to the Holy Spirit and ask this is going to be a situation where he's going to provide what the church needs, and so you are a part of that. You listening to this podcast, you knowing your gifts, helps that ball roll down the hill as the body of Christ comes to understand this better. So our assessment is very inexpensive it's just $9, and we would love you to have that tool to be able to begin this journey for yourself.
Speaker 2:We also have a free resource called Charisms for Couples. If there is a situation in your marriage where it feels like there's not space for one or both of you to really do what it is that you're being called to do, then we just facilitate that conversation for you. We have a date night guide for you to be able to have a conversation and really look at what is it the Holy Spirit has given us. Do we appreciate that about each other, do we see that in each other and do we create a life together that actually allows us to say yes to those things? And, like I said, that's just free on our website and all of that is available at manypartsministriescom. That's just free on our website and all of that is available at manypartsministriescom Perfect.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for being here, jill. Thank you for your yes to doing this and your ministry. It's going to help so many people and I know that a few years ago, I was like I wish that there was something like this. And now there is and, thanks be to God, you're doing it and, yeah, and you're making those sacrifices, but you're being so obedient and I know it's just going to grow and flourish and help so many more people. So, thank you. Thank you so much, christy.
Speaker 1:Well, that does it for this episode of the Catholic Sobriety Podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode and I would invite you to share it with a friend who might also get value from it as well, and make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a thing. I am the Catholic sobriety coach, and if you would like to learn how to work with me or learn more about the coaching that I offer, visit my website, thecatholicsobrietycoachcom. Follow me on Instagram at the Catholic Sobriety Coach. I look forward to speaking to you next time and remember I am here for you, I am praying for you. You are not alone.
