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The Catholic Sobriety Podcast
Welcome to The Catholic Sobriety Podcast with your host Christie Walker!
This podcast is dedicated to empowering Catholics to live lives of freedom by providing tips and tools to help them be successful as they reduce or eliminate alcohol consumption. Christie Walker, a compassionate Catholic life and sobriety coach, is here to support you on your journey toward a healthier, more fulfilling life.
Are you questioning whether alcohol has taken control of your life? Do you worry about the impact it may have on your well-being? Many people find themselves in this situation, fearing the loss of pleasure and stress relief associated with alcohol. They assume that giving it up will only bring deprivation and misery. But Christie offers a different and much more positive perspective.
With Christie's expertise, you'll discover the joy and peace that come from embracing a healthier lifestyle rooted in the Catholic faith and tradition.
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The Catholic Sobriety Podcast
Ep 119: Overcoming Maternal Narcissism with Guest Cristy Murray
In this enlightening episode, we explore the profound yet often overlooked emotional impact of growing up with a narcissistic mother. Our guest, Cristy Murray, skillfully navigates her own journey of self-discovery, sharing valuable insights and tools that can empower women facing similar challenges. Discover the complexities of narcissism and learn practical strategies to set boundaries—essential techniques for those planning to attend family gatherings with potentially toxic dynamics.
Cristy's story illustrates the struggle of feeling inadequate and the silent battle many women endure when trying to cope with their mother's expectations. By acknowledging these patterns, we empower ourselves to reclaim our identities and prioritize our mental health.
Throughout our conversation, we highlight the importance of faith and community support for healing. Cristy emphasizes the impact of journaling and surrounding oneself with nurturing relationships that promote emotional wellness. This episode is an invitation to those grappling with their familial ties to recognize the need for their own emotional independence and resilience.
Are you ready to take the first step toward healing? Join us as we share empowering tools and valuable resources that can support your journey. Don’t forget— past experiences do not have to dictate your future. Be sure to subscribe for more empowering discussions and share this episode with anyone who can benefit!
Learn more about Cristy and the work she does at blueveilwellness.com, and check out her podcast Maternal Narcissism: Unmasked
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Welcome to the Catholic Sobriety Podcast, the go-to resource for women seeking to have a deeper understanding of the role alcohol plays in their lives, Women who are looking to drink less or not at all for any reason. I am your host, Christi Walker. I'm a wife, mom and a joy-filled Catholic, and I am the Catholic Sobriety Coach, and I am so glad you're here. Do family gatherings leave you feeling drained, anxious or reaching for a drink just to get through them? For many of my clients, these moments are especially tough because of the emotional strain of navigating a narcissistic mother. If you've decided to cut back or eliminate alcohol, it can be really hard to imagine coping in situations when you're going to be around your mom without it. But there is hope and my next guest is here to guide you.
Speaker 1:I am thrilled to welcome Christy Murray, a certified Catholic neurocoach and a compassionate expert in helping daughters heal from the pain of being raised by narcissistic mothers. Christy understands this struggle firsthand, having grown up in a similar environment herself. Her personal experiences, combined with her deep expertise, make her uniquely qualified to empower women to heal, reclaim their identity and thrive. Through her innovative neurocoaching approach, Christy equips her clients with the tools to break free from limiting beliefs and unhealthy patterns, while building emotional resistance and greater self-awareness. She is the founder of Blue Veil Wellness and also hosts the podcast Maternal Narcissist Unmasked, where she shares strategies, inspiring stories and actionable advice for overcoming the challenges of narcissistic family dynamics.
Speaker 1:welcome christy, it is so good to have you here hi, christy, thanks for having me before we get started, could you please explain to my listeners what narcissism is and what it is not? I think we've all been hearing a lot about it. The word comes up in conversation much more than it used to, and it would be so helpful to have some clarification from you.
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely, and I think that is the first step, just knowing what it is. So the word narcissism, like you said, nowadays it's coming up more and more. It's because we are becoming more aware of it. So narcissist generally pertains to someone who is more grandiose, someone who likes to put themselves on a pedestal, always talks about me, me, me, all about me. And you know, when you talk to people like these the conversation generally turns back around to them Like you are because of what they did, and you wouldn't be where you are if not for them.
Speaker 2:Now the tricky part is there's two types of it, maybe even more, but let's narrow it down to two. So the grandiose one is the one I just talked about, and then the other kind is the comfort. The grandiose one is the one I just talked about and then the other kind is the covert. That is the more dangerous one because it's tricky to recognize. And it's more tricky if your mother is a covert narcissist, because this type of mother she would do everything, seemingly for you, but really she's doing it to put attention to herself. Like they could be termed as the helicopter parent. You know, I'm just really concerned about my daughter, but really they're concerned for their daughter, because their daughter is an extension of them. Their daughter or their son is an extension of them. It reflects back to them and it really doesn't matter how the children feel because once again, as a narcissist, it all comes back around. It's because of how it makes the mother look, it's because of how it makes the mother feel and like what the mother wants.
Speaker 1:So the children end up becoming just pawns in this sick game. But at the same time, if I'm understanding you correctly, it's that type of parent who seemingly on the outside, does all those things, but really is doing it for selfish reasons.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly. If I can give an example right now, me and my colleague were talking about sports yesterday. You know about parents in sports and how you cheer for your children. So there's a lot of parents that are on this side and will really get excited in cheering for our kids and, you know, motivating them, encouraging them to keep going. And then there's one of my colleagues actually said that her mom got really excited and like she couldn't hear her cheering and it embarrassed her. So after the game she had talked to her mom and it embarrassed her. So after the game she had talked to her mom and said you know, you embarrassed me, you were really loud, I can hear you there. And the mom felt for her daughter and she said I'm so sorry that you were hurt by how I was acting. I was just really excited.
Speaker 2:Well, that is an example of a good non-narcissistic relationship, because the mother was actually open to listening to her daughter. Now, a narcissistic mother, you would get a different response. The narcissistic mom would respond with well, you know, you should have done better and I was being loud because I was cheering for you and I really don't care what other people think of me. So that's like the big difference there. So gaslighted the daughter, gaslighted the behavior and it's like OK, never mind the daughter's feelings.
Speaker 1:I think I get that and I am one of those moms that cheers for my kids, but I have been told by my kids to not do that, so it makes me feel better that I didn't like keep doing it, or make it seem like I had to keep doing it. It's just I am like I don't want to be that, but I do understand what you're saying about it being more. I guess it would be more prideful about them and what their child's actions, how that reflects on them, maybe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the motivation behind why you're doing what you're doing for your children. If you truly want to do what's good for them and then include them and really treat them as people, as your children, individuals, children of God who have their own feelings, then that's different rather than well. I really don't care what you think, because I just want you to do this and I just want you to do well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes total sense. Thank you so much for clarifying that. So you've had your own experience with a narcissistic mother. This is going to be a really difficult conversation saying that, but can you please share your experience and then how not only you became aware of it, but then you were able to overcome that?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I was not aware of it until I was like over 40 it was really just recent and I realized it because I. So the effect on me is that because I became a high achiever, I wanted to do, do and do and then I went into people pleasing mode and then I just wanted to. I wanted to do it all because I was raised to to help people, to give everything. You know what I have, and to me that was normal and it took. It's good to always be helpful to people.
Speaker 2:But then, because I was raised by a narcissist, I had no boundaries and I would feel bad if, you know, like, like people's problems became my responsibility and I would feel bad if I couldn't fix it for them, because I was raised to to be the fix to fix the narcissist's needs and their feelings, and I thought that was just the norm until it started taking a toll on me.
Speaker 2:So I actually just enrolled in a productivity course because I was launching an online health business and it's amazing how God works to heal you um. So how that, how that um course went, was you know, I couldn't do this because of this. And then, digging deeper, it all came down to well, the barrier was because I was raised a certain way and it all like came to my mother. So to me that was an aha moment that I was like, oh my gosh, everything I do and like all I shouldn't say all the problems, because there are some good things so she became the root cause of the challenges and the difficulties. Then I did some more work and it became to like I was giving everything because that's how I was conditioned to, but then my own feelings and needs were non-existent and I was made to feel guilty if I would bring my own feelings and needs to the table.
Speaker 1:That's. That provides even more clarity, because it's almost like, yeah, you're a high achiever, that's great, but at the same time, it wasn't like you wanting to necessarily be that way. It was you being that way so like to make your mom happy, to ensure that she wasn't going to be mad at you or feel let down by you, or something like that. So your performance, the way you acted, essentially was like you said you were the one that had to fix things. So if your mom was unhappy, you had to fix it with your achieving, with your you know, doing and serving and all of that. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's correct. And then you know, being under the constant scrutiny and criticism, like if things don't go her way, then the tantrum happens. So I was just constantly like in the background, trying to fight for her, fix things for her and do things for her too. And then, now that I have children, I think the eye-opener for me was my children. Were she would start to treat my children a certain way, to where I started seeing that wait a minute, that's how she treated me when I was a kid. And then I saw how my children were acting and then I remembered how it was when I was a child. So then that's when I decided, okay, this cycle needs to stop and this is not reaching my children.
Speaker 2:So I started my journey to healing on my own, you know, and it didn't happen overnight, because even like, the first step is being aware of things and then the second step is accepting things. So then, even if you know what it is, you've accepted them. They're still that part of you because your neural pathways are conditioned a certain way. That's your norm, you're going against your norm. So really, you need God's grace, you need God to tell you that no, that is not okay and this is how I'll help you heal.
Speaker 1:So how is your relationship with your mother now? Did you have to set boundaries to where you wouldn't see her as often? I mean, I love that you were able to. It's hard when you're the one going through it, but then when you can see it on the outside, like you saw it happening from the outside, as she was doing the same thing to your children, and then you're like wait a second, and it kind of like gave you those emotions, probably like when you were a kid, and you're like wait, no, this is not happening. Wait, no, this is not happening. So how did your understanding of what was going on, seeing that happening with your kids? And then you know, I'm sure, that you still have a desire to have a relationship with your mom. How did that setting boundaries and everything affect your relationship? And is it something that's fixed today or is it ongoing?
Speaker 2:And is it something that's fixed today or is that ongoing? It's about 90%, I mean. It's not fixed. It's better because people do not change their personalities and people don't change overnight and we only can take care of ourselves. So it was really helpful that you know she moved out, because she used to live with me when I was seeing all these things. She used to live with me. So that was a big help. And even then I didn't even realize. I was still asking myself like why was she saying those things? Why would she like do that? And it was actually.
Speaker 2:I was in adoration one day and I was really troubled and my phone dinged and something popped up. I don't have my notifications on and at this time in iteration it just popped up and someone posted that for you, daughters raised by narcissistic moms this is the book that helped me. I could have written the whole book. It like shed a light to everything and actually I was talking to a forgiveness coach in my podcast a few weeks back and she helps daughters raised by narcissistic moms all over the world and she said it doesn't matter what part of the world you're from and what culture you're from. We all have the same stories.
Speaker 2:So that really opened my eyes to, wow, this is real. I'm not just making this up because I was feeling guilty that, wow, I shouldn't feel this way. And why do I feel this way? You know I'm a bad daughter and what's wrong with me. But just hearing validation from other daughters who went through the same thing, okay, so it's a thing.
Speaker 2:So then I started doing more research about it and, like the first step with me was when she would call and she would be in panic and be in her emergency and expecting me to jump up and do the fixing for her, the first step for me is to calm down and just say, no, we are both adults and I should not be your fixer. You're capable yourself. It was really wonderful for me. I just looked at the facts and I didn't get emotional about things and I just said, okay, well, let me think about this. So I hung up and then I thought about things and then, before the day ended, I just said, okay, this is what we're going to do and I made her accountable for it and that's great that had to be really hard and really scary to do.
Speaker 2:It was because then you feel the guilt that if things get messed up, I mean you always feel like it's your fault and you're the one to be blamed for it, even though it's really not your fault and it's you're not the only person responsible for it.
Speaker 1:From your experience with helping women, other women with this, with realizing and then figuring out how to set boundaries and do all of that? Have you or I guess I have noticed as a sobriety coach, women coming to me where they know that they have a family gathering to go to their mom is as you described, in whatever way? You know, everybody's different, but to some level and really the only way that they feel like they can even get through a family situation with their mom is to cope with alcohol. You know, some people it's food, some people it's you know other things, you know whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So how would you tell a woman like if she's going into a situation she's decided that she's not, she's not going, not going to over drink, she's not going to overeat, she's not going to let her mom, you know, be that catalyst in damaging her body like she wants to take care of it, but yet she's still like but then all the feelings. So how can? She go into those situations and face that without those coping mechanisms, yeah.
Speaker 2:So realize you are your own individual person and your mother is herself and she's always going to be the way she is and you can't tell her what to do. You cannot tell her what not to say. She's going to say whatever she wants and with you deciding in advance, deciding that, okay, when she says this, I'm just not going to say anything and you don't have to engage. So, like for me personally, when she started saying certain things that would trigger me, I would just say, well, I have to go Because you know I called you because of this. Obviously you have a different response to it. So bye.
Speaker 2:So just little things like that, and like throughout months for me just saying standing up for myself because I would call her every day and then I would.
Speaker 2:After I hung up, I would just feel so defeated and I'm like, why do I even call? But then there's always that need to reconnect with her. So after a few times of me saying you know I have to go, I can't do that and you really don't have to, you don't have to give a reason, you can just say, all right, that's how you feel. Then that's what it is and there's no reason to keep the conversation going. You don't have to explain yourself, and it's you, I mean, you hold that power If you choose to take that power to stop the conversation, instead of feeling like, well, you know they still want to talk to me, yeah, they would, but do you want to still talk to them? And you have every right and every power to say I'm not going to keep going with this conversation and actually I want to get some dessert in the kitchen and you can talk to other people or eat whatever you want right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really good, because that's what I was going to ask you next. Like when I talk to women, a lot of times, like with my clients and things, we talk a lot about planning in advance for these situations, even planning for these conversations, because she's your mom and you know, you know pretty much like what she's going to say, you know like what conversation she's going to try to loop you in on or where she's going to try to guilt trip, you or you know, all of those things.
Speaker 1:I think one of the things that is coming clear to me is like when there is an issue, if you bring it up to her, she's going to be like I don't know what you're talking about and then put it on you. That type of stuff.
Speaker 1:So I think, like planning in advance which I always tell my clients as they're trying to reduce or eliminate alcohol anyway but plan for those conversations like know what you want to say, Know, have an exit strategy. And that doesn't necessarily mean like leaving the house, although it can if it gets that bad. But having an exit strategy kind of like what you said, like I'm going own mental health and yourself in those situations so that you can kind of calm down, of calm yourself or care for yourself in those situations, just to kind of get through it without some big you know blow up or you know whatever.
Speaker 2:So then like when you said you know they gaslight you and and the mothers would say, well, that's not how I remember it. So then at that point you can say well, that's how you remember, I just remember it differently. And if they try to get things out of you, because they will try to push your buttons, because they will try to get a rise out of you, and then when you lose it, then they'll turn the spotlight in the camera on you, saying like look at how she's acting. So have these phrases of words, just say that, well, that's not how I remember it, I've talked to you about this and I'm not going to go any further with this. And if that's what you want to do, that's on you, but I'm not going to take part in it. So if you end the conversation with a period and not even asking for what they want or asking them for their opinion, and like this is how I feel and that's done, and this is what I want and that's done, hopefully eventually they'll say okay, we're done they'll get the hit.
Speaker 1:Yes, they'll get used to the new normal exactly that's the thing it's like.
Speaker 2:You know, you have to make your own new normal, because they're used to, they're like puppet masters, they're used to like knowing what strings to pull, but then your job is really to strengthen your own muscles and then cut those strings. So then you, just you can stand up on your own and not depend on them manipulating you.
Speaker 1:And no, not depending on them manipulating you and then so what are some ways? Because you I'm assuming you're still kind of going through your own healing process. It's like an ongoing thing. But what would you recommend to women to do or how to? I don't you mentioned a book, and then I know you have your podcast and you work with women. I don't you mentioned a book, and then I know you have your podcast and you work with women. But what do you recommend for women as a way of healing those wounds from childhood trauma in a healthy way, instead of, like, turning to, you know, attachments like alcohol or other?
Speaker 2:things. Surround yourself with loving relationships. So if you surround yourself with women who truly love their mother and who are non-narcissist, you would know that. And it's actually when you see that kind of relationship between them and their children, you realize that, wow, that's kind of nice and that's not how I remember my childhood. That's kind of nice and that's not how I remember my childhood. So then you'll start seeing that what was normalized when you're growing up is really not right. So then you'll start like being exposed to all these loving relationships, more supportive women, women who just are there truly to help, nurture you and not ask for anything in return and not make you feel bad if you don't do what they want. And then actually go into adoration, if that's your time with Jesus. I can't even begin to explain how many miracles and how it'll affect you and your relationship by just spending time with Jesus in adoration.
Speaker 2:And another thing is really so, knowing the science of things like neurocoaching, I know what we're conditioned to and how neural pathways work, but I still question it because I was raised catholic and I had that guilt. So I, you know, I had to talk to a priest and then it's really, you know whether it's confession or spiritual direction. That's when, then, you'll say like well, no, jesus doesn't hate me just because I feel this way about my mother. And I know I talked about setting boundaries. If you look at boundaries as walls, then it has the potential of you staying in a box when you have all these four walls, and then you're just isolated and then you turn into either the eating or other behaviors. But if you see boundaries as gates, I mean you still see what's happening on the other side, but they can't get through and you can step back, you can see what's coming and you can get closer when you feel safe, but it's a gate that you can see through and then choose what you want to pass through or pass out.
Speaker 1:That's really good. That is really good. I've never heard it explained that way, heard boundaries explained that way, and I like that, because I like it being that you can still see it, that you are in control of how close or how far you get. You can open it if you want or keep it closed. I think that's a really really. I'm such a visual person and that's such a great visual on that, so thank you for that. So if somebody is a narcissistic parent, will they always be a narcissistic grandmother? I mean, or you know, you said that you saw that in your mom, with your kids, but do you find that with your clients that that happens often?
Speaker 2:I find that it really depends on the degree of the narcissism. Like there's it's, it's like a wide spectrum, like some would would be open to change. Some would kind of feel for their children that oh my gosh, I didn't realize that I was hurting you or I was even this close children that oh my gosh, I didn't realize that I was hurting you or I was even this close. And some are just like that's who they are and they're not willing to just even accept the fact that they're hurting you. Like they would say, well, you shouldn't be too sensitive. That's why you're hurt. But you know, as a mother, if your children are coming to you hurt, you would feel for them, right, oh, like, you know, how did you get? Children are coming to you her, you would feel for them right.
Speaker 2:oh, like you know how, did you get hurt or did I hurt you? I'm sorry I did. Um, I, I hear like varying degrees, like someone they're made aware of how their children are feeling and then like, with proper support, then they would slowly be open to have that conversation and some are just like, nope, that's a you problem, not me, and then you should change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So it sounds like it's kind of on a spectrum and that there's some who may teeter on the verge of being narcissistic or have those tendencies, but once they realize they're like oh my gosh, I didn't realize I was doing that, I'm so sorry. So maybe it was something with the way that they were raised. Like, do you find? That women who are raised, and I don't know how your grandmother was with your mom, but do you find that passed down through generations?
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely. That's why it is a cycle that we need to break, and then we owe it to our children to learn about it now and then start breaking that cycle, because I I don't remember where I heard it from because, like, the battles that you don't fight for your children now are the battles that your children are going to fight later on, and that's the battle that your mother didn't fight for you. That's why you're fighting it on your own right now. So it's really up to us, knowing what it is, to take the steps towards it. So, like we become that shield for our children, so we hold that shield and at the same time, I mean we have a tough job.
Speaker 2:Sometimes ignorance is bliss, but then you know, once you know you hold, use your other hand to hold that shield and at the same time, I mean we have a tough job. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, but then you know, once you know you hold, use your other hand to hold that shield and then the other hand to either hold that sword or, you know, protect you from the other side. Yeah, it is because they're not going to accept their fault that they're wrong, because that's how their mothers raised them and in their, their mind, they will say, well, I turned out okay. But not really. If you don't have a relationship with you and like, motherhood is really not about just, you know, getting pregnant, like giving birth and raising kids, giving birth and raising kids, the mother motherhood is about having that relationship with your children and being that mother, not just the biological, I mean, you're just a surrogate, if that's all you think motherhood is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and I think that's important what you said about breaking the cycle, because what we do is like we see what things you know. Nobody's perfect Everybody.
Speaker 1:We parent out of our wounds sometimes, but our job is to find that healing, and once we are healed, then we can help parent our children so that they don't have to experience those wounds. Like my children have known since a very early age about my struggles with alcohol and that I don't drink. And this is why and you know so it's one of those things, because it was very much in my family. You know, alcoholism was very much, especially on my dad's side of the family, and so I'm like it stops with me. And this is how I'm going to take precautions to ensure that my kids you know whether they drink or don't drink, have awareness around it and know like these are boundaries. If you can't have these boundaries, then it's best not to start.
Speaker 1:And so with narcissism, I think that that's true too, because you're modeling motherhood to them. You're modeling what it is to be a loving, caring, very involved parent, yet at the same time letting them be their own person and respecting their feelings person and respecting their feelings. So when they say that bothers me or I don't want to do that, you know, like some like coming back to sports. It's such a big one. There was just a fight at my son's. It wasn't their basketball game, but before their basketball game.
Speaker 1:And I'm just like parents, it's like a basketball game, Like what is not life or death. This isn't like a thing, but I think that those can be the type of parents that really are in it for themselves, Make it seem like they're in it for for their children. So I think if we show them like we love you no matter what, yes, we would love it if you do the thing that you want to do, if you excel, that's so awesome. But really we just want to have you enjoy it, have a great childhood and, you know, do do all those things. But I think a lot of times it's hard because we do have some children even if they aren't raised by a narcissist who are harder on themselves.
Speaker 1:you know, in that way? To where do you? Do you think that that is just like a learned thing, or do you think it is something from the parenting, like maybe they are parenting in a way that's maybe not narcissistic but prideful, if that makes sense, like like, if I don't do this, then people won't think I'm a good parent.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it's that. It's that shame that's coming from themselves because they right, somehow in their childhood they were judged. So then now they don't want their children to be judged. So they're stepping over their parent, their children's feelings. That well you know, I don't want you to. Like you said, they're stepping over their children's feelings. That well you know, I don't want you to. Like you said, they're parenting from their wound. Whether they realize it or not, they have the best intentions for the children. They don't want their children hurt like they were.
Speaker 1:Yes, so if there's a woman that's listening and she is dealing with and she's realizing like, oh, my goodness, yeah, I was raised by a narcissistic parent, you know, and I'm sure there's narcissistic dads and all that, but the maternal is really hurtful because that's our model. Right, she's realizing that. What are what are her next steps really, really, and how can she forgive, even? And that's going to take time too, right, you need to heal first and then forgive, so what?
Speaker 2:are your some of your best tips on that so, yeah, first is really just journaling everything, because it's all going to be, it's all going to replay in your head. You, you're going to hear their voice in your head, just writing things down, like even if you can remember the date. So then when you start to question yourself, like oh no, it's just me, because you gaslight yourself as well, because we were gaslighted growing up, you're always going to blame yourself. Oh, you know, I acted that way, that's why I was treated that way. You know it's me.
Speaker 2:But if you have these records of how you know you remembered it and like what the things that were said, and even if you tried to stand up for yourself and it didn't work, um, you know, just keep speaking for yourself, really finding your own identity, separate from your mother. And someone had told me before, or I had read somewhere, that before you were formed in your mother's womb, god knows who you are. He knows, like everything about you, how you're, what you're going to say and even how you think, even before you say it. So, just taking comfort that well, I have my own identity, and really asking God like who am I and who you want me to be. So then it's between you, between you and Jesus and you're not. Your behavior is not dependent on how your mom would make you feel and what she would tell you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that, like you mentioned before, like taking that to adoration, like sitting with Jesus on that, because, yeah, I'm sure you do question yourself Like did I remember it that way? Is it right? Am I like making too, much of it. Am I overreacting, right, because, yeah, the mom probably told you those things. Like that didn't happen, or?
Speaker 1:you know you never can remember things Right. So if you take that to adoration and take it, sit with Jesus and ask him to help you remember it and just write it down and honor, honor the way that you remembered it. As that is it. And just know, like I don't know. I just just I feel like if you do it that way, or do it in prayer, or you know, however is best, but really bringing jesus into it is would be so, so powerful.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting because I've been doing um. I am a student of encounter school of ministries, and we went through an inner healing. We were taught an inner healing tool to help people and you can walk through it with the Holy Trinity and so God, the Father, is like when you have wound with your earthly father, you speak to Jesus and use that when you have an issue with your mom. So a lot of times, people that have a hard time connecting with Jesus and probably Mary for sure, mary as well but I thought it was so interesting that people would be afraid to approach Jesus if they had a wound with their mother, and so this exercise helps them work through that and then the.
Speaker 1:Holy Spirit is something that helps with, like siblings and other family members.
Speaker 1:It's so interesting to me, and if I hadn't gone through it myself and done an inner healing session, I would have been like what? I don't understand it, but it's so, so good, and it just comes up a lot because you've mentioned Jesus so many times. So that's why I think, taking it to adoration, sitting in front of Jesus, gazing upon him, allowing him to gaze upon you as you're writing these things down, and healing could be so, so powerful so powerful, yes, and then I really take great comfort with the blessed virgin mary and being almost I mean really being remothered by her.
Speaker 2:So because when I realized that well, you know, my mom is like this, I'm screwed up. But really, no, we're not. That's our earthly mother, she's also human, but we always can take comfort in being mothered by the Blessed Mary, because she's Jesus' mother, she's our mother, and I mean we can take our own mothers to her too and we can both be mothered by the Virgin Mary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, that's such a great thing and she is. Was it St Teresa or Mother Teresa that was saying, like you say blessed mother, come and be a mother to me now, or something like that? I can't remember the exact phrasing of it, but it's so beautiful and it's such a short thing that you can say if you're struggling with those thoughts and you really are feeling maybe like my mom doesn't understand me, but the Blessed. Mother does, and she will wrap you in her mantle praying the rosary.
Speaker 1:I heard somebody say one time like praying the rosary and holding the rosary beads in your hand, or like holding the hands of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and I was like that's so beautiful, it's so like such a comfort.
Speaker 2:I can see how that could be very healing. Yeah, so don't feel bad about I mean, it's easy for me to say that now, but because I'm like halfway through my healing, but you know, and I just keep telling myself because, yeah, I have felt bad, like I felt lost, like well, I don't have a mom, or I have a mom, but it's she's not really a mom. But then I just started looking into the Virgin Mary as my mom. So then it really it's almost like being an orphan, like once you realize that the mother that you looked up to all your life is really just a shell and it's like a fantasy mom that you made up. And then when you realize that that's not her, if you go into this grieving phase that well, who am I if, like, it was a lie, or who I believed I was growing up is not real, so then you start looking for yourself and then you you need that nurturing, but like taking comfort that well, I do. We, we have mom. We have a mom. It may not be the one here on earth. The blessed virgin is our mom and, just like you said, just being wrapped up in her mantle and I don't know. It's hard for me to explain, but just, it's almost like you're, you're grounded.
Speaker 2:Once you accept that, you know it's okay if my earthly mom fails me and I will pray for her healing as well, and maybe she can walk next to me and we can walk to the blessed virgin Mary so we can both be healed. So then that you know you get your path and you just sit with the Virgin Mary and you know, really that's where the healing starts to happen. It's like accepting things and then letting it go, not like throwing it away. You know, like your man, I feel like when you say like let it go give it up, it's like okay.
Speaker 2:Say like let it go give it up, it's like okay, just throw it. No, it's like it's handing it over to Jesus and and the Virgin Mary and then eventually you know you'll get all the resources that you need because, like for me, I really felt like I've been provided. Every time I need something, either someone will call me or I'll meet someone and then, like, present things to me and things just fall into place. And I do believe that for everyone, you know, ask and you shall receive, you will be given what you need at the right time and all you have to do is just surrender is just surrender.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really. The key is just surrender. I love the visual of you and your mom, you know, like going hand in hand to the Virgin Mary and letting her heal you both. I think that is so, so beautiful because essentially, even as daughters of narcissistic mothers, you know there's still love there and you still want the best for your mom, and so just envisioning that and just praying for her and asking for you know, mary's protection over her probably be something that feels like you're able to do, something that's helping her and then will help your relationship in the long run, yes, and then you won't feel so guilty that you're turning your back on your mom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are there situations where it's inevitable break has to come, or is it always redeemable?
Speaker 2:I have heard there are some moms who can get physical and be verbally and emotionally abusive. At that point, as hard as it is, you have to make a choice of what's more important, right your family, your children, or your relationship with your mom which I mean really what kind of relationship it is and you can't fix her.
Speaker 1:She's gonna want to be able to be fixed yeah, anything that's going to put you or your children in a dangerous situation or, you know, being abused mentally or physically. I guess that would be definitely the line where you would have to step away and say you know someday, if you ever heal.
Speaker 2:In the meantime, I can love you from the distance.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. I'll call you. Yes, so well. This has been such a helpful conversation, christy, I really appreciate you being here. So, before we close, why don't you just tell everybody where they can find you and you know if you have any resources? If somebody is listening and they're like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize, but I think I may have been raised by a narcissistic mother, or maybe they're listening and they're like, oh my gosh, am I a narcissistic mother? So what resources do you have that can help everyone who's listening?
Speaker 2:well, so, first, if you questioned if you're a narcissistic mother, you're not, because the fact that you're even questioning yourself, oh, tell me, so you're okay yes, tells me that you're not, because you care when someone says, well, I'm not.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm just like, okay, maybe question that. But yeah, if you go to heal maternal woundscom, that's a quiz and you know that will get you thinking about like how you feel and what's happening. And then in the end it'll like give you a score like your readiness, like, okay, you're just seeking guidance right now, or you, you're ready for help, and then that will get you to my email list and then I, you know we can keep in touch. That way I'll send resources and get on the wait list for a course. For, you know, let's rewrite your story from trauma to triumph that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:and then, of course, there's your podcast as well, so I'll leave all the links to these things below, because you got them to me and, yeah, we'll just keep doing what you're doing. I think the more people that speak out about this, the more awareness there will be and the more healing there will be. So thank you so much. Oh, can I just say something to?
Speaker 2:like Absolutely For sobriety, I mean. So that's one way, like you had mentioned. You know, we all choose how we cope and for some women it's like it's immersing themselves in work, or for some people it's drinking and it's that someone had told me before. It's the way you punish yourself. It's like the poison that you drink and they're not even handing it to you, it you're the one who is like grabbing it and giving it to yourself. Yeah, so once you remember that you know, every time you you pick up something or you know it's destructive, I guess, like if it's even fair to say that you know that's poison, because essentially it is, if you think of it as poison, you know, just imagine them handing it to you and you just hand it back to them and just say, no, I'm not going to let you do this to me.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's beautiful. That's a really good thing. I like that, like they hand it to you and you hand it back to them. That's a really good thing to like, visualize and think about. But yes, it really is.
Speaker 1:It's like if you're harming yourself because of them, you know, you're harming yourself, because you're trying to deal with whatever the effects and the wounds that they, you know, inflicted on you, and so, yeah, I think that's such a good thing. So, thank you, I'm glad that you mentioned that. All right, well, you have a great day and I hope everybody checks out your podcast and all of your resources and we'll talk to you again soon. Well, that does it for this episode of the Catholic sobriety podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode and I would invite you to share it with a friend who might also get value from it as well, and make sure you subscribe so you don't miss a thing. I am the Catholic sobriety coach, and if you would like to learn how to work with me or learn more about the coaching that I offer, visit my website, thecatholicsobrietycoachcom. Follow me on Instagram at the Catholic Sobriety Coach. I look forward to speaking to you next time and remember I am here for you, I am praying for you. You are not alone.
