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My Weekly Marketing
Join conversations about marketing, business, and life-in-between with marketing strategist Janice Hostager and a variety of world-class entrepreneurs! We will fill you with step-by-step training, marketing strategy, and life experiences from where life and business intersect. We'd love to have you join the fun!
My Weekly Marketing
Why Every Entrepreneur Needs a Peer Group with Kelly Berry
Feeling stuck or isolated as a solopreneur? In this episode, we talk with Kelly Berry, a mastermind facilitator who helps small business owners build supportive peer groups. Kelly shares how these groups provide accountability, fresh perspectives, and a sense of community, making the challenges of running a business a lot less lonely.
We also discuss how peer networks tackle real problems like cash flow struggles, hiring decisions, and even navigating social media. Kelly’s insights will inspire you to embrace collaboration and peer support. Listen in to see how connecting with others can make a big difference for your business and personal growth.
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I'm Janice Hostager. After three decades in the marketing business and many years of being an entrepreneur, I've learned a thing or two about marketing. Join me as we talk about marketing, small business and life in between. Welcome to My Weekly Marketing.
Janice Hostager:If you're a solopreneur or have a small or remote team, you've probably felt a sense of isolation creep up on you once in a while. I know for me I have a lot of friends and family who listen, are really supportive, but they don't really fully grasp what it's like to run a business or they don't really get it about how running a business can really be all-consuming. Not only that, but when we're running businesses there's no real rule book, right? Sure, you might follow somebody else or have ideas, but when things get difficult or you just don't know what to do, it's a pretty lonely place to be. That's when it's ideal to get involved in a group of people who are your peers. That might be a networking group, mastermind group or, as my friend Kelly Berry will tell us more about today, an intentional growth circle, which is a peer group from different industries, all at the same level of growth.
Janice Hostager:Kelly is a group person, as we talk about in this episode. We met several years ago when she started a group at the Chamber of Commerce that we both belong to, called Small Office Home Office, or SOHO for short. That I joined for the very purpose of connecting to other small business owners to share ideas and get some advice From having now been in many peer groups, masterminds and networking groups, I'm here to tell you that it's helped me in ways I could have never predicted. None of us can do it alone, and when you find the right group, you won't want to have to go solo again. So here's my conversation with Kelly. Hey, Kelly, welcome.
Kelly Berry:Thanks, glad to be here.
Janice Hostager:Well, Kelly and I have, we go way back right? I don't even know how far back we go, back to Eau Claire, Wisconsin, where we both lived and we were both involved in the Chamber of Commerce. I think that was kind of how we connected up and I believe that you had started a group there for small businesses.
Kelly Berry:Yes, SOHO, Small Office Home Office
Janice Hostager:Yes, I love that.
Janice Hostager:I love that, which leads so well into what you're doing right now, right? So, um, tell us about that. Tell us about what you're doing right now, because you have a lot of things on your plate and I really wanted you on to talk about. Well, I'll let you just introduce what you do. How's that?
Kelly Berry:Okay, well, you know, I've had some kind of winding journey to where I am. I used to teach full time at the University of Wisconsin in Eau Claire, so I connected with you somewhat there and then also through our own solopreneur careers. I've been working with small business owners for 20 years now. I can't believe it's been that long. Helping them look for new markets, find new customers and a lot of market research-focused work. And what I learned along the way is that I would present all this great information. Here you go. Here's all this terrific information about new customers and new this, new that. And then the message I got back was, this is great, I don't time for it.
Kelly Berry:And you know, I would talk to business owners, and I know one of them said at one point I am behind from the minute I walk in the door, and so I started as a researcher, started thinking how is it that I can help these businesses rather than handing them a giant research report? What is it that would make a difference? And one of the things that I discovered in my research is one thing that really makes a difference is being in a group of your peers. It might be called a CEO group, a roundtable group there's a variety of different options out there but just making a commitment to meeting monthly with other businesses of a similar size who can help you deal with solving problems, who understand the burden on your shoulders when you are responsible for bringing in income and supporting those employees and doing all the things and wearing all the hats. And so I started I want to say maybe 2018, looking into running peer groups.
Kelly Berry:I got licensed to be a peer group professional facilitator and ran my first group in 2019. And I was hooked. I can see the value of bringing small business owners together. A lot of the problems and issues that they deal with are the same regardless of industry they're in. We're all dealing with cash flow and human resource issues, hiring people, marketing sales and then figuring out how to grow and how to delegate. And so being in a room full of other people that are solving those problems and all addressing them in different ways helps you feel like you're not alone. It helps you feel like you have some accountability to getting things done and it just you know, it raises the spirit of everybody there. Some of the people, several, multiple people in these groups have said it feel like their therapy session because they know they're in a room with people that understand what's going on. So I've become really passionate about growing these groups and doing more of that and less of the market research.
Janice Hostager:Right, right, do you put these together? Well, you said that you know it feels like a therapy session. Do you feel like the benefits are mostly mental, emotional, or do you feel like there's a decent amount of practical advice that goes back and forth?
Kelly Berry:Oh yeah absolutely, it's both for sure.
Kelly Berry:You know, not only are people talking about the things that they're worried about and what's on their shoulders, but there's practical solutions. You know, you know a business owner might be worried that they're having a cash flow issue and the other, you know we've had other business owners say well, have you asked for an increase in your, you know, line of credit from the bank? Oh, I'm not sure if I can do that. And you know, push them. Okay, I did that. Or I know I need to hire an engineer. I don't know how to get started. I've never hired somebody at this level before and then someone else. Well, I put this job description together. I found this information here. This is where I get you know. So they're able to compare notes, share their experiences. You know, one of the rules that we talk about in these groups is that there's no advice giving because you didn't decide to start your own business, to have people tell you what to do.
Kelly Berry:Most people decide to start their own business, because they want to have some control over what's going on. So we try to keep the advice giving at a minimum. But what you can do is share experiences. You can say you know, I was in a similar situation and this is what I did and this is how it came out. So you're learning from each other.
Kelly Berry:And it works well when the businesses in the group are similar sizes, because then they have similar problems. If one group, one member, is much bigger, they've solved a lot of those problems. They've maybe been able to delegate and get themselves out of that you know, operations aspect at all times, and so the perspective is different. So putting people in groups with similar situations where they're all struggling, kind of, with similar issues, can be hugely beneficial. And then there's that accountability of coming back every month and people saying, well, how did that turn out for you? So if you're a little anxious about hiring that first engineer and you just keep putting it off, now you've got to tell all these people every month, oh, I didn't do that again. And then it gets a whole lot harder to not do that, because these people are following up and asking about your progress.
Kelly Berry:So there is an emotional aspect, that therapeutic aspect to being in a room of people that get you and support you and are your biggest cheerleaders. But then there's also a very practical aspect of the conversations that we have, relate to, what problems? What's keeping you up at night? What are you dealing with? How are you addressing these problems? How have other people addressed these problems? What can you learn from them? There's a lot of give and take, and that's part of the value as well. Sometimes you're the one that's having the issue, other people are supporting you, giving you their thoughts and experiences, and sometimes you're able to contribute and feel like you're the one that's helping somebody else. And again, that's one of the values of having similar sized businesses be in that group, because there is a lot of give and take.
Janice Hostager:Yeah, and that is really true. I know one of the things that my coach always said to me was what got you here won't get you there. So if you are doing things a certain way, at a certain level of your business, let's say up to a million dollars a year then you're going to probably hit a wall because you have to start doing things very differently at the next phase, right? So how do you? How do you decide, I suppose through the application process, you kind of sort through where everybody is basically.
Kelly Berry:And that's the, you know, my business is called Second Stage Growth and that's kind of that's the definition is a second stage business is a business that typically has at least 1 million, maybe up to 30 million, in annual revenue. They've already got a few employees. They may not have a lot of employees and in many cases those employees are operational, right? They're the ones doing whatever the work is that you're getting paid for. You don't have a C-suite, you don't have a board of advisors or a board of directors, you don't have a CFO and a CMO and all the different officers. So it's really on your shoulders making those difficult decisions, figuring out how to grow the business. Still on your shoulders, and so that's my sweet spot. That's the groups I love to work with. That's those are the businesses I've been working with for most of my career, because I, you know, I feel like this, that group can often be ignored. Government programs, economic development.
Kelly Berry:They're very supportive of entrepreneurs and startups and you know venture capital funds, all this angel funds, so much going on for startups. And then we care about the giant businesses who now have a lot of employees and have an impact on the community and we want to make sure they locate in our community. But who's paying attention to the middle, the people in the middle, the small businesses who are struggling and think that the problems are theirs. They think that you know their problems are unique and I'm sorry to say it, but most of them are not. They're not unique to your industry, they're not unique to you personally, they're just unique to your situation.
Kelly Berry:And if I can get you all in the room, you'll start to see that. And then there's a relief, a sense of relief like, oh, it's not me, it's just this stage of growing. It's that second stage where I'm not in a startup anymore and I haven't grown to the point where, you know, the business runs itself without me being a part of it. So that's the tricky middle part of growing a business and that's the part where I like to play, you know, where I like to provide support services and in reality, I'm just the facilitator. I'm just putting the right people in the room and then they're doing all the magic.
Janice Hostager:Okay. So it's different than a mastermind group where you would have probably someone leading it and maybe someone that goes in the hot seat every week.
Janice Hostager:It's different than that, right?
Kelly Berry:I mean, I'm the facilitator or the moderator, you know. So, it's my responsibility to find people to be in the group. It's my responsibility to make sure that we meet consistently, the people show up on time, that we end on time. No one dominates the conversation. And then we follow a protocol, we have a set agenda and so at every meeting, the business owners get a chance to give an update. It's like a three minute update. So what's going well for you and for your business, personally, professionally? They're all kind of intertwined. What things are you celebrating, what are you happy about, what things are not going well for you and what's keeping you up at night? And so we talk about you know, your most pressing issues, other challenges, opportunities, questions that you might have, and everyone gets a chance to give that update.
Kelly Berry:And then the group decides, how do we want to spend our time? And I'll say you know what, I think John's issue is really weighing on him right now and he needs to make a decision on this before we meet again. So let's focus on that issue, and so then he'll get a chance to explain it in more detail. The group that's there can ask clarifying questions to better understand it. We try to avoid that. You should do this and you should do that, because again, that's that advice giving but saying, okay, well, here's how I handled a situation similar, here's what I did. So we kind of carry that conversation through to the point where I'm just kind of making up a person you know, where John will say okay, you know, based on what you've all said, this is what I think I'm going to do.
Kelly Berry:This is my next step, and then the group is going to work to hold him accountable to that at the next meeting. Did you do what you said you were going to do? How did that work out for you? What did you learn?
Kelly Berry:Typically, in a monthly meeting, we have a chance to address two different issues. In some cases, it might be that we just have a general conversation about marketing best practices, for example. What's everybody doing? How are they finding things? How active are you on social media? I just want to compare notes with other businesses that are similar size, who have similar budgets and similar, you know, access to resources, and then I'll bring in guest speakers as well on different topics that might be relevant, whether that's leadership development or succession planning, or, you know, we had a fractional chief financial officer come in one time to talk about what is that? How do I, you know, how do I know if I need one? Those types of things. So, again, just my role is bringing that information to them, and you know, and then giving them the opportunity to have these conversations. I don't have to have the answers. I just have to put the right people in the room and encourage the conversation.
Janice Hostager:Right, right. So do you meet on site somewhere, or is this virtual?
Kelly Berry:These meetings can be virtual or in person. The group I'm running currently is meeting in person for three hours once a month. Virtually, it tends to be a little bit shorter because it's just hard to be on a Zoom-type call for a long period of time, so they kind of get down to business a little bit faster. So you know, certainly I think there's value in being in the same room together. I am currently working on putting together a group of rural business owners and the goal there would be to have it be people spread out over a bigger geographic region so that you can talk to other business owners that are in a community that's a similar size, but not your community, where there's this too much, you know interconnection within that community to feel comfortable sharing your biggest worries and problems. So, because of the fact that I'm trying to pull people from a much wider geographic region, that group will be virtual, but we will plan to meet in person once or twice a year, just because I think you get a much better connection that way.
Janice Hostager:Yeah, yeah for sure, and that's true, I suppose you know you really don't, you really have to feel comfortable and there has to be a certain level of trust between the people in this room. That, I'm sure, you know, it's confidentiality issues for sure. But you know, if you're in a rural setting, your geographic area that you're pulling from is going to be be pretty limited and you may not want to lay out your marketing strategy to somebody that lives just down the road from you, for example.
Kelly Berry:Right, well, and you're kind of competing for the same people as far as employees.
Kelly Berry:And if you lay somebody off, it might be the other person's neighbor or cousin or something. So the communities are so interdependent on one another that that becomes a lot harder, and that's where I'm trying to pull from a bigger geographic region so that you can feel comfortable talking about these issues without feeling like you know you're affecting the community and the safety of the, you know, the people in that group so. But you're right, confidentiality is key regardless, and we start and end every meeting with a reminder about the importance of confidentiality, keeping all this information. You need to know that this is a safe place for you to go talk about things because again, like if you're going to be, I think I have to lay somebody off, or I'm having issues with a particular employee, or I'm having cashflow issues, it's not the kind of thing you want to advertise.
Kelly Berry:You know a lot of people be oh, is this like a BNI group? Like a networking group. Like, this is like the opposite of a networking group. You're not putting your best foot forward. You're not talking about how great you are and how people should do business with you. You're talking about the things that are weighing on you. So it needs to be a group of people that you're not trying to sell to. So that's another component there is that we want the groups to be non-competing businesses, but also not businesses that want to do business with each other necessarily. That does happen and you know it's kind of up to the group to decide what they think the best rules are. But typically you want it to be a safe place to talk about anything without worried about you know, who's a customer and who's a supplier and that type of thing.
Janice Hostager:That was actually going to be my next question, because the marketing podcast, you know, and and because I do think in terms of marketing, how can a group like this are participating in a group help marketing efforts? I know it's not the primary function of it, but certainly word of mouth?
Kelly Berry:It's a common topic for sure, because everyone you know it feels like a guessing game to a lot of small business owners. You know their ideal would be I don't have to do any sales or marketing, right? Everything is word of mouth and everyone hears about me and they all come knock on my door and I don't have to do all those things. But that's not the reality, and it may be that when you start in those entrepreneurial stages, you're new and you're reaching out to your network to grow your business and everything goes great, and then you plateau and now you're a second stage business. Now you've got payroll, you've got employees, you've got all this and all your personal connections aren't paying off anymore because you've already reached out to all the people you can reach out to. So you do have to decide all right, do I need a salesperson? Do I need a marketing person? If I need a marketing person, am I hiring, like a college intern? What makes sense? Who's driving that marketing decision? And so we've had multiple conversations about marketing.
Kelly Berry:And again, these groups are very diverse in terms of the types of businesses that they are, but they all struggle with marketing and they might find okay, well, this business that sells to consumers does a lot on Facebook and another group will say, well, it's all B2B, I don't need Facebook, but maybe you need some similar form of social media to get in front of people, because you know it all comes down to people connecting with people. So understanding what that means for you and for your business and who your customers are and how to get in front of them. You know that's the kind of conversation that small business owners have all the time. And then how do you afford to find that, you know, the resources? Who's in charge of sales and marketing? Is it you with one of your many hats? Is it one of the first things that you hire for? Do you outsource this? All those are challenging decisions for small business owners to make.
Janice Hostager:They really are, and that's just the marketing part of it. When I started my business, I felt like I've got this marketing stuff down. I've been doing this my entire career. But it really wasn't the marketing that derailed me, it was everything else. Fortunately, I do have that marketing background and I can run my business with some background in it. But I think for a lot of people, let's say, your background is running a flower shop and you have zero business experience, zero marketing experience. You just have a desire in your heart to open up a shop or something and run that business and it's been a dream of yours. And where do you start? So I love that you are approaching that middle portion. That well, second step, right? That really doesn't probably know who to reach out to. You know, listens to a lot of YouTube videos or podcasts and that sort of thing.
Kelly Berry:Right, and all of that can be so intimidating. Like should I have TikTok? Do I post things on YouTube? Am I doing that myself? Well, you know what's with all the videos these days. What should I be doing? Does it make sense for my B2B business to do these things? You know, can I handle more sales if we ramp up the marketing? What's the right budget for me to be spending?
Kelly Berry:There's so many questions and there's no one answer for any of them, and there's no one answer for your industry or for the size of your business. But being in a room full of other people that are working to answer the same questions, it can be hugely beneficial because you learn a little bit from what they're doing and how they've changed things and what's working and not working for them, and that's the value that I see in those groups. And, like I said, marketing for sure is a topic that comes up with great regularity because there's so many unknowns and it's constantly changing. You know, you can't just say, oh, I put that website together five years ago and I'm just going to let it do its job.
Janice Hostager:It's good now, yeah, yeah, and I see that with just about absolute well, not every client, but a lot of my clients will come in there and they'll say, well, I tried social media, I ran some ads, nothing's working. And they don't understand the concept of what a marketing strategy looks like. Not only that, but if they do try and hire somebody, marketing is so siloed that most people have experience in, say, social media or in email marketing that they don't understand either how it all connects together. So I feel like that's my mission on earth is to try and teach people how to go down the trail to the sale is what I call it. But yeah, so it definitely is challenging. But what I like about the groups is that you've got that know, like and trust factor built right in, so you've learned that these people, that you understand them. You're dealing with their problems back and forth each week. You have that built-in relationship with them, so that's got to be a benefit when it comes to referring them, if it comes to that.
Kelly Berry:Absolutely, and it's helpful for me to have a kind of a pool of referral sources, and then they also refer within the group to who do you work with? What works for you? And that's why I love to bring in guest speakers and give them a chance to all hear from somebody, because they're all learning together and, you know, they may not, their businesses may be very diverse, but they end up a lot of them working with a lot of the same, you know, consultants and advisors.
Janice Hostager:Right, right. So what advice would you give to a small business owner? Maybe they're not ready for a group of that size but, let's say they're feeling a little isolated or overwhelmed. Where would you recommend that they start out if they wanted to go into some sort of intentional well, you're calling it intentional growth circles, but it could be what kind of group?
Kelly Berry:Yeah, in my opinion, I think anytime you are bringing together other business owners to help each other is great. You know when I well, during COVID, I ended up in a mastermind that met once a week with two other solopreneurs and we met one hour a week on Zoom and just talked about like we each got 20 minutes and in your 20 minutes you talk about here's what's going, here's what's working, here's what's not working, here's what's frustrating to me. And you know we could have a conversation that way and that was hugely beneficial and that was just the three of us making a decision to do this. Not paying anybody any money, not doing anything formal. So there are plenty of ways to connect with other business owners and I've always been a proponent of the mastermind concept of just you know, reach out to other people that you know and say, hey, would you be willing to meet for lunch once a month or do a weekly phone call or whatever it might be? You know, and there can be value in finding those folks, whether you join a chamber or some other kind of a networking group.
Kelly Berry:I think also, it shouldn't all be about sales, right? You're not joining these groups or meeting with these people to pitch to them, to sell to them. You need to have a group of trusted advisors who you can turn to and talk about the things that are worrying you, and you're not going to do that to people that you're actively selling to. So that's who you're looking for. It might be people that are in a similar industry, or it might just be people that you're friendly with. That you know, each happen to have a very different business, but you're, all you know, trying to grow your business. So again, I think accountability, being in front of your peers, having to report to somebody.
Kelly Berry:I still, I'm in an online accountability group that meets every Monday. There's 12 of us and we alternate in little pods and again every Monday, what are you working on? What do you need to get done this week? What can the group do to help you? What are you going to report back to us next Monday?
Kelly Berry:So those groups are hugely beneficial, to the point where I actually also run an online community called Your ROI Club, and that is a kind of a mix of small business owners and solopreneurs who have made a commitment to spending 15 minutes a week on something outside of their day-to-day operations, and so it's on a private online community where I post little nudges like hey, did you do the thing? Did the thing that you said you were going to do? Are you doing the thing? And I share time management techniques and things like that. And then we have a monthly call and kind of just talk about how everyone is doing, what are they doing with their 15 minutes, how's that coming, how's that working out for them. So just you know, in my mind, being around other people, the power peers, whether it's virtual or in person, that's like that's the secret sauce. That's the magic is don't go this, don't go alone when you could do this with other people. Learn from other people. Give them the benefit of what you've learned already.
Kelly Berry:That's where I think there's huge value and it helps with marketing too, because one of the things that I believe is that we tend to put ourselves in silos where you just see the same people and talk to the same people all the time. But being put into a peer group with people from completely different backgrounds and experiences helps you see a different perspective, it helps you learn something and it can help you grow your business in ways you wouldn't have thought of on your own.
Janice Hostager:I was just going to say that you are like the group person I mean, and I think that is so cool and so awesome, I mean, I got to tell you I don't think I could handle a weekly group.
Janice Hostager:I mean, I know I couldn't.
Kelly Berry:At this point, I feel a loss when it's not there, because I know that those people are on my side, yeah, after me, and it helps me do the hard things, that writing it on a to-do list isn't going to cut it, because I'll just keep pushing it off to the next day and the next day.
Kelly Berry:But if the group is like hey, you said you were going to do the thing, did you do the thing? So, and I would say, you know, like I put that Small Office Home Office group together in the chamber because I saw a need. I felt like the the chamber was really focused on bigger businesses. But a significant percentage of the members were small business owners and I'm like, ok, we need to get them in the same room together talking, so. But I think that's part of my personality. Like I organized a playgroup when my kids were little and I run a book club and, you know, at a gourmet group, and I'm the one that like says we need to get together, we need to do the things, we need to pull everyone together and make sure we're meeting on a regular basis Because I just think that's the,
Kelly Berry:you know, that's what makes this world run is community.
Janice Hostager:Oh yeah, it does. It really does, and I just I love that that you are doing all this. It is kind of challenging, though, I know. When we first moved to Austin, I tried to put together an unpaid mastermind and I did get a little frustrated with that because people stopped caring. There's no skin in the game. You're not going to probably be as committed as you would be otherwise.
Janice Hostager:But I meet on a regular basis, probably every other week to every month, with a person I call my business buddy. And and um, just having one person. And the thing I like about meeting with her is that she will shoot it to me straight. I mean, she will say that's a terrible idea if I have, you know, throw something out there, and and. And I do the same with her too, because she, you know, I know which, what her tendencies are. I think we all have our tendencies.
Janice Hostager:We either try and take on too much, which I think is a huge entrepreneurial trait, where we all have these really good ideas and we try and implement them and we, because of that, we lose our focus, basically, you know, yeah, and so I think that's one trait that I see a lot, just even working with clients.
Kelly Berry:That's a huge benefit. You know, for sure the peer groups that I run, you know, those people are going to call you out on your BS, right? Employees aren't going to say anything if they think you're doing something that's a horrible idea. You're their boss, that's like okay. And then they, oh, I'm thinking about doing this and the group would be like what are you talking about?
Kelly Berry:You know, they're not afraid to say, like you know, how does that tie into your actual business? You know, because, again, a lot of entrepreneurs, they have that entrepreneurial mindset and so they might start this business and they grow it. And I'm like, oh, look at this thing and look at this thing and look at all these other things. And so the group is like, wait a minute, where are you really heading with this? It's like, can you run this business and do this thing at the same time? Do you need to have somebody managing this successfully for you to move on to the next thing? What does that look like? You know, are you focusing your time and energy in the right places? So that's the benefit of being in a group like that. You're not going to tell yourself that. You don't hear that in your own head because you're so excited about the next big thing, the new idea, but having that group to say wait a minute, so they might be your cheerleaders, but they're also gonna, you know, push you and ask you those different questions that your employees aren't gonna ask you or your, you know your family, for that matter too
Janice Hostager:Very cool.
Janice Hostager:Well, I know that you are in Wisconsin and I'm in Texas, so I cannot probably join your group and I'm not in, I'm in an urban area, so that's not going to work for your rural groups. But if somebody is interested in learning more about you and your group any of the groups or even maybe learning more about how you put a group like this together, would you mind if
Janice Hostager:they reached out to you?
Kelly Berry:Oh, of course, I'm always happy to connect with people. They can find me on LinkedIn. Just look for Kelly Berry, I think you can find me. There aren't that many of us out there.
Kelly Berry:And I have a website called secondstagegrowthcom and right on the homepage I encourage you to sign up for my blog, which is called Rise Over Run, and that really gives you a good chance to get to know kind of me and my mindset and who I support.
Kelly Berry:My passion is working with small business owners, but I also work with solopreneurs. Anyone that's working on growing something. So Rise Over Run was started as a blog and the explanation I come up with for why it's called that because it's kind of a weird name is because I was a math major in college and Rise Over Run is the formula for a slope, you know, to figure out how steep the slope is. But I also think it's an excellent message for small business owners that they really need to concentrate on the rise part, growing their business over the run part of running it. If all you're doing is running it, then you're just going to continue to stay where you are. The only way to grow your business is to think about how to be intentional about growing your business, and so the videos and the blog posts that you get through Rise Over Run are all very intentional about growing. You know the rise over the run, so sign up for that and you'll get that you know to your inbox.
Janice Hostager:Love that, love the analogy, and I love your newsletter too, because there are a few newsletters, I always stop and read. A lot of them, I stop and read sometimes. You know how it is with a full inbox, you know. But you always have really, really fascinating articles and I appreciate that. So, and, of course, everything you just talked about, we're going to put in the show notes for today. So, Kelly, it's been delightful learning more about these groups and I appreciate you being here today.
Kelly Berry:Well thanks for the opportunity. It was a fun conversation. I enjoyed having the chance to do it.
Janice Hostager:Thanks so much for joining me today. To learn more about Kelly's groups or anything else that we talked about today, visit myweeklymarketingcom forward slash 91. Thank you so much for coming along for our conversation and I'll see you next time. Bye for now.
