Eileen Joy is the creator of Money School for Moms and Host of the Moms Who Money Podcast. Check her out at momswhomoney.com!
Eileen sits down with Rachel today to discuss four ways to direct money in order to create habits of both responsibility AND enjoyment around our spending. Prosperity abounds the moment we truly believe we deserve it!
And one, two, three. And welcome to this episode of The “Self-Centered” Woman Podcast.
Rachel: I am Rachel Hart, your host, and I am joined today by Eileen Joy.
Eileen: Thank you, Rachel for having me today.
Rachel: You're so welcome.
It's so nice to see you again after eleven years. I don't think I've actually seen you since then.
Eileen: I don’t think so either.
Rachel: So Eileen was a client of Birthing Way Midwifery with her first baby, and we haven't seen each other since. We’ve been um interacting a bit through another friend right, through the “Self-Centered” woman group. But the reason that I have asked you on the show today is because I wanna talk all things money.
We are joined by this lovely money tree in between us today, and hopefully it's gonna give us good luck, um, to our listeners and let them soak up lots of information, and also good luck to us that we will be able to provide them with authentic love and inspiration about all things money.
Because I think that that's something that women do not get enough of, put enough stock into, and all around educate themselves about.
So you have created an online course. Momswhomoney.com
Is that right?
Eileen: My company is Moms Who Money. And I created Money School for Moms.
Rachel: Gotcha. Money School for Moms. And tell me your journey
up to this point in creating the course, what is your background with money?
What made you say, I need this and women need this?
Eileen: Well it all started with my divorce, and it was, it was so crazy, because when you start a divorce process..
Rachel: Let me ask you before you go to your divorce, did it start with your divorce, or did it start with your marriage?
Was there anything like around money in your marriage? People say, you know, marriage finances is a huge cause of divorce, not saying that that was, but certainly a stressful point in a relationship, potentially.
Eileen: It actually wasn't. It wasn't stressful because we ignored it.
We completely ignored it. And we were both spenders.
And he more so than I-I was always nervous about making sure that the bills were paid and he was
all about let's go out and have fun.
And we never spoke about money ever.
Rachel: Not before you got married either?
Eileen: No, we just never spoke about it. Here and there we would, but we would never sit down and have an adult conversation about it, or really discuss what are our goals?
What do we want? You know, what, anything about anything? We just really didn't discuss anything.
We would just go spend money. He had his money. I had mine.
We kept it separated.
Never spoke about it. And then one day we filed for bankruptcy.
And that was so hard.
And after that, after that whole ordeal and the day of this was insane, the day that we had to go to court for our final hearing for our bankruptcy, was the day of my grandmother's funeral, um, and they wouldn't let us change the date.
Rachel: Oh my God.
Eileen: And so I still feel like so much guilt and shame and embarrassment about that. And I didn't wanna tell my mom.
Rachel: She didn't know.
Eileen: She had no idea. I just said, I can't come.
I can't get there, because I had a flight to New York, and I-I went the next day. I still feel awful about it, like I feel like my grandma's still mad at me. Not being mad, but I think she knew what was going on.
You know she might be okay but, um, so that was tough getting through that.
And so after that, that's when I said, you know what?
We need to talk about money. We need to learn about money.
We need to do all the things. And we started looking for courses and books and seminars and different things, and we didn't really find the things that we needed, and a lot of we, we even flew out to Vegas to go to the specific seminar that we thought would be the one.
And it was a complete waste of our time.
We learned nothing.
Rachel: How ironic the place you go to lose all the money.
Eileen: Right? Exactly
And it, it was just crazy, like us trying to learn, like we were really trying, and there really at that time, wasn't anything that we could find that would help us with what we needed.
Rachel: What was it that you felt that you needed, that you couldn't find?
Eileen: I think that was our main problem too, is that we didn't know.
Rachel: You didn't even know yourself.
Eileen: No. We were trying to find that.
We were trying to figure out what do we need to know.
And everything we went to was not what we needed to know.
And so that's what the issue was, too, is we were trying to figure out what do we need, who can help us, you know?
And we really didn't find anything. So I just started reading books, and I knew I needed to repair my credit and all the different things.
So I started there and just kind of worked my way through and then through all of that.
Rachel: So you were trying to find, okay, we have filed for bankruptcy.
Now, what exactly? And, and obviously you're making the choice to file for bankruptcy.
So because you're looking to the future and thinking, okay, let's just do this, and then we'll be able to start rebuilding.
But we don't have a hammer and we don't have a nail, we just know we wanna rebuild.
Okay, so you're reading books.
Eileen. So I was reading books trying to learn, and that's usually my go to because I just look at the book and say, okay, yes, this is exactly what I need.
You know, like, when they say the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
So the book always picks you, you know.
Rachel: Oh my God, right, so true.
Eileen: So I went to the library, and I just said, I'm gonna go look and see, go to the money section and see what they've got, you know.
And I kind of started there.
So I did that. And because I had filed for bankruptcy, I was starting all over
So I wanted to know, like, what was I doing wrong?
Like, how did I get to the place where I was, you know?
And also, at that same time, we had both lost our jobs at the same time, and it was what was going on in the world.
And, you know, it was just a crazy time. And so we had both lost our jobs.
We had no savings, and like the little savings that we did have was gone in seconds, and we just started living on our credit cards.
And we were living on our credit cards like we didn't lose our jobs.
Rachel: Oh, like just like life as usual.
Rachel: And already you were spenders.
Eileen: Exactly. So it was a pretty, really, you know, bad situation at the end of the day, and that's why we ultimately ended up filing for bankruptcy.
And then that's when I said, we need to learn, we need to figure out what are we doing wrong.
So, and then he agreed. He totally agreed. And we, we were trying. And then we never really figured it out.
At that time, I was just, I was trying to just live on cash.
You know, I said, we, we are not gonna get new credit cards.
We're just gonna live on cash. We're going to, you know, just if we don't have it, we're not getting it.
Rachel: Did you, um, look at Dave Ramsay at all then at that point?
Eileen: No because I'm also Jewish. And he turns me off. (Laughter)
Rachel: Okay, well, cause I know pre this recording, you're like, don't get me started on him.
Um, and I'm Christian. And he turned me on. You know what, how it was with Dave Ramsey?
I used to listen to him on AM radio as I-I did also used.
I also used to listen to Dr. Laura.
Rachel: Yeah. Do the Right thing. And so he would be on that same channel so I would
be sitting in carpool line, and I would hear the couples that drive to Nashville, and they get to be on his show to say, tell their story, just like you, we've been doing this.
We've been doing that. It was horrible. We lost everything, and then we slowly rebuilt.
And now here we are. And they go, one, two, three, “We’re Debt Free!”.
Eileen: The “Debt Free Scream!”.
Rachel: And I wanted the debt free scream big time, because for us, this was in my previous marriage..
Um jeeze. It's like, it didn't even seem like we were spending money on frivolous things, but we just never had any money.
Well, we had four kids, and they all had, you know, registrations to pay and things to pay for at school.
But even now, I feel like I could have been a better steward with the money, you know, that we did have.
And then when I started back to work, um, at my midwifery practice, we had some extra money, and that seemed like a big deal, and back then, it wasn't even a lot, but it was a big deal to us, and I still don't think that I took care of it in the way that I could have.
But I was diligent. And we did get out of debt, and we did not do the “debt free scream” to Dave Ramsey.
But I remember we called my sister because they had done Dave Ramsey, too, and they got out of it.
So we all went on face time, me and the kids and my ex husband, and we said, one, two, three, we're debt free!!!
And so we had our own debt free scream and, oh my God, regardless of how you get there, that feeling to know that you don't know owe anybody anything besides our mortgage is a game changer when it comes to our stress level.
And when we're talking about being “Self-Centered”, being able to manage our stress, and knowing the parts that we are responsible for is everything.
And unfortunately, money seems to be a large part of the stress.
And so as women, I really feel like we need to get a handle on that.
I have women that I've talked to who don't even know how much money they have in their bank account because their husband just takes care of everything.
And that's great, um, until they don't have one anymore. Queue back to your story.
Eileen: It’s funny because you bring up, like, I have women that come to me with that same issue, they'll say, well, there are two separate issues where they'll say..
I take care of the money, and my husband wants to spend it all.
What do I do? Because I wanna control the, you know, the finances in the house with him.
But he just goes and spends it, or opposite, you know, he takes care of it, and I don't know anything.
And then I've also had people come to me where they've lost a spouse that that was taking care of everything, and they don't know what to do now, right?
And that's where I was too. When I was wrestling with, should I get divorced?
I was so scared because I knew that the situation I was in, the reason for the divorce had nothing to do with money.
It was other things. And I was scared all the time.
And one of the things I was scared about was, can I take care of myself because I don't know anything about money.
And that's what I was gonna say, too. The reason, unfortunately, to not get divorced oftentimes is because we do not have any financial IQ.
Exactly, exactly. And I was, I was just so scared. So I just started interviewing attorneys just to ask questions and to find out what is the process.
Because I've heard how expensive divorce can be, which divorce is a whole business.
That makes me so angry.
One of the first questions that I asked was, how much will this cost?
Because this is how much I have and I-I don't think it's enough, and not one of them said anything about that.. “Oh no, no, no…
Don't worry it's no problem. You know, we'll work around that”. They were dancing around the issue, but they would never quote me like a flat fee price or anything like that.
And so instead, you know, they charge you for every minute they talk to you on the phone, or every piece of paper that they touch, or any copy of anything that you send them.
And, and it just keeps adding up and adding up and adding up.
So at the end of the day, I had run out of money so fast, and then I had run out of money.
And then their accounting department started sending me these really hateful emails saying that they would stop services
if I don't pay, they would go put me to collections and all these things.
And I was like, this is crazy. I told you how much money I had.
I can't even. And so at the end of the day, I had to sell my house to pay for my divorce.
Rachel: And you were the only one responsible for paying for the divorce?
Eileen: No, we both. But my, my attorney charges separate from his attorney, right?
So I had to pay for my attorney. He had to pay for his attorney.
Rachel: Did you ever entertain the idea of, just like doing it together and not having an argument?
Or was that impossible?
Eileen: It was impossible at the time.
Rachel: How much money did your divorce cost?
Eileen: It was tens of thousands of dollars. It was insane. It was insane.
Just mine. I don't know how much he paid.
Rachel: But likely similar.
Eileen: We would have gotten so much equity from that home.
Rachel: And that's senseless on both parts. I mean that you couldn't come to some sort of resolution.
Eileen: He wouldn’t.
Rachel: Yeah, it is usually one or the other who wouldn’t.
Um, I also just wanna interject real quick if this is hitting a nerve with anybody who wants a divorce, needs a divorce for abuse purposes, um, because that was me with my first marriage.
If you are suffering any kind of physical abuse, there are lawyers that are willing to take on your case pro bono.
They did mine, and they will help get you out of it.
Now, it does take some research on your part. It does take some effort.
Everything takes effort that we want to change. There are no shortcuts, but those resources are out there for you if you look for it.
And okay, so the damage is done. You've squandered away thousands of dollars to get a divorce, and now here you are.
Eileen: And also, at the same time, I had to get a new job because I was working with my sister in law at the time.
And so that was a great office environment for me. It just was so toxic, and so I-I had to go. And I had a great job, but I had to find another job. Thankfully the universe helped me out, and help me find an even better job. And then, during all of this time
My son and I got into a really bad car accident.
My car was totaled, we both ended up in the hospital.
I'm still dealing with a neck injury from that. And like this was all going on all at the same time.
And then the divorce was final, and I received a check in the mail from my attorney's office for all the money that I had left in the world, $347.
They took everything that I had, so it was really hard to peel me up off the floor.
I was just in the fetal position, crying, not knowing what to do.
And, you know, after, after a minute, I was like, you know, I'm single now. I'm a single mom with a five year old, and I gotta figure this out. I can't just sit here and say woe is me.
Rachel: You can for a little while.
Rachel: Just just make it a pit stop. You're not allowed to stay there, but you certainly can visit for a minute because that shit hurts.
Eileen: It does. I was in therapy for quite some time. I still am.
I still. I highly recommend having someone on your support team, whether it's a therapist or a coach or your mother, but you need someone to talk to whether you're going through stuff or not. It’s just nice to have somebody to talk to is non biased.
But my therapist really helped a lot, get me through all of that, and help me sort my feelings and, you know, what's my next step and all these things.
So it was, it was great.
Rachel: Where were you living at the time?
Since you only had $347. What did you do?
Eileen: I’m renting this house.
Rachel: But how were you paying your rent?
Eileen: Because I got the new job.
Rachel: Okay, okay.
Eileen. Everything was fine.
I did it, like, boom, boom.
Rachel: You were gonna be able to pay the bills.
Rachel: But your savings consisted of $300.
Eileen: And what I did was, at the time, like, in the interim, I had borrowed money from people because I needed to get a new car, I needed to get the house and all, like, put the security deposit down, all that stuff.
So I borrowed money, and I just paid it back.
Rachel: And that's really important to pit stop on, too, because when I left, my first husband, um, and he's probably gonna be listening now that he knows I have a podcast, but it's okay, because we're all good.
And, you know, this is past stuff, but, um, I had to go live with an aunt, and I had a little bit of a 401k, and I cashed it out because, you know, I'm 20 something years old.
I don't know the importance of a 401K. I just know I have a source of money and pride in asking other people for it. It was already prideful enough to have to go live with somebody because I didn't have, you know, a place to live.
But, um, that stuff is so worth it for your freedom.
You do what you have to do, and you ask for help when you need help.
Because not only are you getting yourself from point A to point B, which is what you have to do sometimes, you also are giving other people the opportunity to rise to the occasion and help another human.
And whether you know it or not, we humans really like to feel that we have done something to make a difference, um, in somebody else's life.
So don't be afraid of that either. It is what it is.
We have to be scrappy. We have to do what we have to do to keep on going and surviving.
Eileen: Exactly. That’s what I did.
And I said, you know, well, how am I gonna get this money, you know?
Where is it gonna come from? And I, you know, I said, why?
I have to borrow it, you know, I'm not gonna charge things.
I'm not gonna do all these things, you know. I said, I need to just figure it out.
And that's what I did. So I borrowed some cash, paid it back very quickly, and then continued on my learning journey, you know, and just kept going and going and going and going.
And I said, okay, well, now I'm taking care of things by myself, and I need to figure everything out.
I'm the everything, mom, you know. And, and I did, and I did, and I did what I could to get the lowest payments for all the different things, and you know keep my expenses low, and save for what I could. And then over a very short period,
I was able to fully fund my emergency fund, and I continued to stay debt free.
I'm now on track to retire early. I’d gotten that new car.
I had gotten a six year car loan because I wasn't sure of my future.
And I was like, I'll just get the lowest payment I can with this.
I was able to pay that off in three years.
And then along the way, I was teaching my son about money, because we don't learn about money in school, like everyone is so clueless when it comes to their money.
And money makes the world go round. Money is like one of the most important things that no one talks about.
And there's such a huge problem in the world, this country as well, but there's such a huge money problem.
Our money system is broken, and it's set up to make us fail, and so many people are failing at it.
And because of that, we feel that the sense of embarrassment and shame and anxiety over it, and they don't wanna talk about it because of those feelings.
And we just stuff everything down and pretend everything's okay and it's not.
And so one of the main things that I do is shout from the mountain tops:
It's okay to talk about money! We need to talk about money.
We need to educate ourselves and our children.
Because right now, the student loan crisis is ridiculous.
The credit card crisis is ridiculous. Car loans, all the different things that all the banks are loaning out with these ridiculous interest rates, are keeping people in debt.
Rachel: Can you go more into depth about that statement that our money system is set up for us to fail?
Yes, it's insane. So our government helps the banks.
So if there's a bank in trouble, the government has a system set up to help them so that they will ultimately be okay.
The government can also decide if they don't want to help a bank as well.
And the banks are set up where, when you deposit money into a bank, whether it be a checking account or a savings account, that bank then uses that money to lend out to other people and then charge them interest on that money.
And what's happening with your money? It's just sitting there for them to use, but then you're using credit cards that are owned by them, so they're loaning you back your own money, and then you're paying them back 20 % or so interest on that for credit cards, for car loans.
For, you know, whatever loan you're getting. And it's, it's, that's why it's set up to make you fail.
It's because also the marketing with companies that people use for their products, and the way that the marketing is set up, like it's so easy to buy things now, because our money now.. Only 10 % of actual cash
the paper and coins are used in the world now, 10 %.
That's it. Everything else is digital, right? So it's either add to cart, swipe a card..
It's just air, like money has become completely intangible. Now we don't get to touch it, smell it, taste it. Don’t taste it. (Laughs)
But you know what I mean? And it's like we don't have the opportunity to see what's happening, right?
We're just blindly spending. And so when you're not paying attention to your money, the banks are banking on that pun intended, right?
They're banking on the fact that you're not paying attention to your money, and that you're scrolling through Facebook and you see an ad about something you were just talking about, that you said, oh, I wanna get the that pair of shoes or whatever.
Oh, look, there they are! right? And then you go ahead and buy them, and then continue scrolling, and you're mindlessly shopping now, right?
You see something, or hear something, or you are keeping up with the Joneses.
This is huge. I am so angry with the Joneses. I can go on for days about this, but it's the comparison.
It is that everyone has, right? It's a disease. It's and it's set up on purpose.
It's the marketing, right? So we, as a society in America, Americans, years ago, were the ones that created the front lawn, right?
We have to have these beautiful homes with perfectly manicured lawns and these beautiful homes in different areas around the country.
And the bigger the better, right? The same thing with your backyard.
If you have a pool like, you know, you're, you're, can I curse?
Rachel: Say whatever you want to honey.
Eileen: If you have a pool, you're the shit, you know, it's like, you know, you're the neighbor everyone wants to go to.
If your subdivision doesn't have a pool or whatever, you know.
And it's like, you become the hangout house and, you know, and then you wanna get more and more things to furnish that house.
And then the, all the outdoor stuff that you need.
Grass is a weed, right? And grass in itself is the largest crop that is grown in the United States.
And all it does is sit there. No one eats it, right?
Except maybe some animals outside. But, you know, for the most part, it's just there as like a status symbol, and it's really meaningless, right?
And then it's just insane. And then it just keeps going on and on and on.
So in the in the real estate industry, they start you in what they call a starter home.
So they make you think this is where you start, but not where you end, right?
So you're gonna start here in this lower end home.
But as time goes on and you go through your life and you start to get raises at work, and you start to make more money, then you're going to move up, right?
We're gonna move up to the next neighborhood, moving on up and then.
And that's just how we are trained to think that we have to have the bigger and better thing, a better car, right?
When we first get our driver's license, we are just happy to have a car, right?
Anything that works, anything that will get you from A to B.
Rachel: My friend Chanel, she had a red Jetta.
That thing got us everywhere.
We went into a ditch once. We were really everywhere, literally everywhere, doing things we weren't supposed to be doing.
Here we are in a ditch. Anyway, she flipped it sideways, getting off of an exit.
So the whole side of it was nothing but dents. Of course, they picked it up and we kept on rolling.
I wasn't in the car that time that she got it on the door side, but I don't even know how she managed to do that.
But the point is, we did not care what the car looked like.
Eileen: Exactly, because you were having fun.
Yeah, And I can say, too, that I've had my car since I was pregnant with my third child in 2006.
And I talked to her, and I say, you're such a sweet baby, don't you ever quit!
The last time I checked, I'm at 355,ooo miles on the car, and I love it so much.
And that's a whole other conversation, too, is just like having some respect and some love and gratitude for the things that we have right now.
Rachel: Like you said, it's a mindless thing to think that we need more and more and more and more and more.
We're missing it right now.
Eileen: We are. You're ignoring the things that are so obvious.
Rachel: And right now, as they say, is all there is.
Rachel: Oh, it's so sad.
Eileen: I know. I know. But it's the comparisonitis, the comparison, and it's gotten worse.
So how the Joneses started, actually, because I was so curious about all of these things,
Rachel: Where did that come from, that term?
Eileen: I was really curious about it, so I did some research on it.
And it actually started in the 1950s. And it was an actual cartoon comic strip called The Joneses.
And it was about this woman who would peer through the window at her neighbor, Mrs. Jones, and she was always jealous of what Mrs. Jones had.
And that's really how it started. And so back then, in the fifties, there was no Internet, right?
It was peering through the window at your neighbor.
And, you know, where you get your hair done every week, and you heard all the gossip and, you know, whatever and whatever their husband brought home, whatever kind of car they upgraded to back then, right?
And, you know, now it's evolved into what it is today, which is scary because of social media and all of the other things that people are so overwhelmed with information.
And you're just slammed all day when you're on your phone or wherever, on the computer, at work, or, you know, whatever you're doing with all of these messages, which are essentially going into your subconscious telling you you're not good enough if you don't have these things.
Rachel: And it's very interesting that you even say that, because how many of us can look at childhood where we were made to feel, possibly that we weren't good enough?
And with my “Self-Centered” woman group, that's a year long program, and we dive into these things, this wheel of life.
Significant other, finances, fun, leisure, recreation, family and friends, career, um.
And we start from. Where did that belief begin? Where did this all come from?
For me personally, I had, my grandad was big frugal person, right?
Like, you just, you don't wanna buy that. You don't really need that.
Always saving it for a rainy day. You know, so much so that there was no joy to having money.
It was a difficult time with alcoholism, and she had good jobs that then she would squander because she was too drunk to go to work, and so we always didn't have any money.
How are we gonna pay the bills? Always this mentality that money is so stressful, and we never have enough.
I think it's so important to recognize what we bring with, it's not good to stay there.
But what we are bringing to the table currently, based on what we were told over and over and over again about money.
Eileen: Yeah, and I do the wheel of life, as well.
Rachel: Okay, good.
Eileen: We start there because you can't do money if you don't know where the root of your money issues are from.
I refuse to start working on money until we find out what the root of your issues are from.
Because that's where it begins.
That's where it begins. Because between the the ages of zero and seven are when we are conditioned and programmed right with everything, with all of life's messages, right?
It all just comes in. We learn from our parents. We learn from the environment, the people around us and just everything around us.
And that's how we just take it all in.
With money specifically, you learn about money from your parents, who are not sitting down with.
you saying, let me show you how to reconcile your check book.
You know, it's about, are they avoiding money? What you just said, too, about your mom. And just, you know, there's no money, there's no money.
Like, you hear these messages, there's no money, there's no money.
Or, you know, you'll hear things like people who are rich or greedy.
Rachel: The root of all evil.
Eileen: Right, all the different things that you hear when you're growing up, and you just don't realize it's living within you.
And then you kind of operate that way. And so anytime you're making a money decision, it usually comes from that.
It comes from fear. You know, it comes from anxiety around money.
I grew up in a household where my mom was a spender, and so was my father.
They spent money in very different ways. My mom maxed out credit cards, constantly spending.
She still does this to this day, and then she would spend all the money, and then she still refuses to use the Internet.
So everything comes in the mail bus. She has this pile of bills with a rubber band around it.
She's still, it's hilarious. I still, she won't listen. She's stuck.
So she's like, ah, the bills, the bills. I have to pay the bills.
Like, and one day recently, I was on the phone with her and saying hello, and like, what are you doing? (Mimics mother’s annoyed tone): Paying the bills.
Just, I started laughing again. Okay, mom, whatever, she just won't change.
Rachel: The self-inflicted bill.
Eileen: Yes. And no matter what, you know, she just, she's ingrained in doing that.
Rachel: It’s so interesting that we will complain about paying the bills that you've created for yourself.
But also, I mean, you allegedly bought all of these things because it was gonna make you feel good and you really wanted it, and it's just, like, important to you, but, like, obviously, how quickly that goes.
But guess what, ladies? The bills stay. They're not going away.
Eileen: And my father, he had a gambling addiction.
Rachel: Oh my God.
Eileen: And he spent every penny that he possibly could. And he was addicted to poker and Black Jack and all the games.
He actually had helicopters come for him that casinos would send for him to bring him to the casinos and comp him rooms and food and stuff, so he would come gamble more.
When I was five, he used to take me to the racetrack to watch the horses.
And I still remember it like, I could still smell the, the cigars and the beer, and like, oh, it makes me want to throw up, like this smell, just thinking about it.
And just like the men yelling, and it was just an awful thing.
And he actually refinanced their house three times and took the cash out to go gamble.
He closed out all of their retirement accounts, took all the money, um, he had an accident where he had gone to court and received a cash money for the accident.
Gone, gambled. And so my parents were always fighting in my house.
Money was fighting. Money was hard. Money was bad. Money was never there.
And if any, any money talk turned into a fight. And it wasn't just yelling.
It was like holes punched in walls, furniture thrown, like rip roaring, drag out fights.
And it was my sister and I just spent most of our lives in our rooms just trying to stay away from the fighting.
And the day that my sister graduated high school, she ran away.
She put all of her stuff in hefty bags and left.
And I didn't talk to her for 20 years. She just left.
She just left.
And it was this whole abandonment thing that I went through and whatever.
But, um, I recently started speaking to my sister again, because my father just passed away last year, and when he got sick, um, she somehow found her way back.
And now we're, we're semi speaking again. And it's very awkward.
It's weird. She's my sister, and I don't know her so, and it's all because of money and fighting.
And, you know, it's so unfortunate, you know, it breaks families apart, right?
And it's, you know, for years, Have you heard from your sister?
Like, no, I don't know where she is. So it, it's just money can affect you in so many ways that you don't even realize until you really start to really pay attention, and ask yourself the right questions of, like, where, where do I land right now with money?
And why am I feeling this way? And how do I treat my money?
Am I respectful with it? Or do I just throw it away?
You know, it's kind of like getting paid. And, like, you know, we all get paid direct deposit now, or digital or through venmo or whatever, you know, and it's all digital now, so you get paid.
And so if you think about, you go to the ATM on the day that you get paid, and you take your paycheck out in cash, right?
And you'll have, oh, look, this is all the money I have.
But then you get in your car and drive home, and on the way home, you open the window, you take that cash and you throw it out the window, right?
And then you see all the people behind you like, slamming on their brakes going, oh, money!
You know, they pull over and just take it! But that's really what's happening when you're not paying attention to it, right?
So coming up with a plan to say, okay, this money, I wanna put away for myself, this money, I wanna save this money.
I want to invest this money. I wanna give this money.
And this money, I am going to spend. And that's what I teach. I teach those four buckets of how to do that properly.
Rachel: Four buckets, say it again.
Eileen: The four buckets are simply: save, invest, give and spend.
And spenders always last. And I'll tell you all about the buckets.
Okay. So coming up with the plan for the four buckets really starts with you, right?
And so I have a four step framework that I work through, that help to get to the four buckets. First is your mindset, right? So we always have to start there. And then we have awareness.
And awareness is really knowing, how much does it cost to be you, right?
Because a lot of people don't know, because you're not paying attention, and you're just spending and you're not really caring, you know, you just, whatever.
I'm just gonna pay the bills and go out to dinner and, you know, go get some groceries or whatever, but you're not really paying attention.
And then there's more months left at the end of the money.
So you wanna really be aware of what's coming in, what's going out, what, what do I really need?
And then the next step is our values, right? What do you actually value?
And those are the things that we wanna spend the money on, right?
We're not just going to random Target trips and just throwing things in the cart, you know, being, like, I went for one thing and I even forgot it, you know?
And find all these other things.
And then, going from there, you get to tell your money what to do, right?
That's budgeting. Budgeting. People feel like you have to restrict yourself and deprive yourself of things.
If you do the budget, like budget is such a trigger word, you know.
But really, if you think about it, you get to tell your money what to do.
Rachel: That's right. It's a plan. Just like you plan your week, um, you plan to work out, you plan to meditate.
You plan your meals so that you are eating right nutritionally.
You plan, you have a schedule of sleep, right? So all of those four seeds of self care that we talk about, it's no different.
You tell your money where to go, and not because you are a boring disciplinarian, you know, stick in the mud.
It's because there's freedom in that exactly.
Eileen: And it's so funny that you say that like, boring, because one of my clients, Tiffany, she's always like, I love working with you!
She said, it's like working with a girlfriend and not a boring money planner.
She said, we always have so much fun because it's not boring. It’s so interesting that the money world, you know, Google and wherever TV, you know, wherever you hear, it's like these bobble talking heads.
They're just like, they make it seem hard. They make it seem that you can’t understand it.
And it's so easy to do when you really just dial back, stop comparing yourself with everybody else, and just say, how much does it cost to be me?
And what do I care about? And how can I plan for those things?
So I could make sure that the things that I care about happen right?
We plan for fun.
Rachel: And that's the first bucket, saving.
Eileen: So your first bucket is saving. So that would be, you would figure out, well, what do you wanna save for?
What are things that are important to you? And it's not just long term.
It's short term too. It's like, well, maybe six months from now, you know, you wanna go on a girls trip or something.
Rachel: Which I think is an important because when I talk, you know, to my financial planner, we're not talking about going to my favorite place in Charleston.
We don't talk about those short-term. We talk about this thing, this retirement, you know, that's like 15-20 years away.
That's no fun.
And, and it's okay to talk about these short-term things and build that into your life.
It is important because it's part of the rest, the fun, leisure, and recreation.
All of it needs a place to go in order for us to be our healthiest and feel our best.
Eileen: We weren't put on this planet to just sit in a cubicle or just work and have no fun.
And save for this unknown life that you're gonna have some day, right?
So one of the things that we do talk about is the importance of that.
It's creating a life now, that you still wanna be living when you stop working.
Rachel: I love that.
Eileen: So it's planning for all of that now, and starting it now, taking a look at your calendar and looking to see how much fun is actually in your calendar?
Or is it just running the kids around everywhere and working and then hoping that you have time to make dinner, you know?
And it's like, when do you get to have some time for you, whether it be resting time, which is also extremely important and fun time.
Like, recently I just joined a hip hop class.
Rachel: Oh, snap!
Eileen: I had so much fun at my first class.
Rachel: Where do you go?
Eileen: Right down the road, 3 min.
Rachel: At the gym?
Eileen: It’s a dance studio. They have adult classes!
Rachel: Oh, I love that.
Eileen: Yeah, and I love dancing. I took tap
jazz and ballet when I was little. I stopped and then I went clubbing, you know, then it was the club. (Laughter) And then I became a mom, and then it was the diapers and the breast milk and love.
So I was like, you know, recently, I said, I wanna do something different, you know.
And so, you know, universe. And right after I said that, sent me an email saying, hey, we're, have these new classes.
And I wrote back, I'm in!
And, you know, so it's just being open to that too.
It's, you know, because when you're so closed off to life and your money, you don't add in the fun, you just have the stress, right?
Life just becomes stressful and hard, right? And it's just having that abundance mindset.
And, and I don't mean abundance of just money, it's life, right?
And everything within it, right? And money is, yes, part of it.
And yes, money is a huge part to help bring that to you.
Rachel: Money is energy.
Eileen: Yes, it is energy.
Rachel: Um, okay. So save and then invest.
Eileen: Invest. So investing is not only for your retirement, it's a huge part, but you can, there's, there's different ways of investing for specific things.
Like when I got into my car accident, I had to buy a new car.
And I know that someday I'm gonna probably need another car.
I don't know when that is, but I'm gonna drive this car's until it's done.
The last car, the car that I had when I got into a car accident.
Same thing with your car. I loved my car 200,000 miles on it.
I loved that car. I was so devastated. And so same thing with this car, like, I'm gonna drive it until question mark, you know.
But I know someday I will need another car. So I have a separate brokerage account where I'm putting money in to save for a car, because that money is gonna grow way faster than just putting it into savings.
I also use high yield interest savings, which does grow faster than putting it at Chase or Wells Fargo, which gives you .000000.
Rachel: So what, what does that entail? How do you find that high yield interest savings?
Eileen: We go through all of that in Money School for Moms.
I go through, I take you through the entire thing. But basically the easiest thing to do is just look online.
There's so many online banks. None of the brick and mortar banks will give you any interest.
Okay, none. Zero. If you're driving past a bank on the road, don't put your money there for savings.
No savings, right? It's always good to have a checking account somewhere where it's easily accessible, where you can go to the ATM, get it out, or go into the bank and speak to someone if you need something.
But also making sure they're not charging you stupid fees.
Stay away from the fees. But, and you ask them, just ask them, what are your fees?
And how do I have this account free when paying zero fees?
How do I get this account free? And the online banks charge zero fees anyway, um.
But just finding places where you know and, and, and putting it with intention, because it's not just throwing your money into savings and it's just saving, right?
So that's where it comes back to values, right? Your values are your goals, right?
So are you saving for a short term goal? A long term goal?
Is it six months, a year, two years, three years, because we go through that.
Rachel: And then you're investing based on those goals.
Eileen: Exactly. So savings bucket is just for short term, anything five years or less.
And then when you're investing, it would be something for five years or more.
Rachel: Okay, giving.
Eileen: Giving is SO important!
Rachel: I love talking about giving.
I do. I love it. And it always opens up a greater conversation, too, about giving.
And is there anything truly altruistic, as in, why do we give?
And here's a perfect story. So when the kids were little, we would get like $500 in $50 bills and put them in little Christmas envelopes and go around anywhere. Like everyone would get to pick, you know, I wanna give it to this person and this person!
And then we would want to see the reaction. And so me and my ex husband would talk about it, and like, is this actually giving for the right reasons?
Because we want to, like, feel good! Like that we’ve made a difference in somebody's life.
We wanna get that reaction, you know. And also, like, who are we?
We're panpicking looking, who looks like they need my $50, you know, like, how judgmental is that?
The underlying premise is good, right? We want to give, we want to be able to do something on Christmas Eve that's going to make a difference and hopefully, you know, make a difference in the lives of their families on Christmas morning.
But, you know, the other thing is, like, we do it, I believe, because it makes us feel just as good.
And I don't think that there is anything wrong with that either.
Eileen: It brings you joy, coming back to the word joy. It brings you joy, and that's why you do it, because just looking at your face and the joy that it brings to your face, and the smile that it brings. It makes you feel good, because it makes them feel good.
And you're helping someone, regardless of who you handpick, doesn't matter, the universe helped you pick that person.
Rachel: And for me personally, and I know you're not, um, christian, I don't know if there's an equal, anything that's parallel, but tithing is, you know, 10 % right?
For a long time at church, I have not, um, just kind of like, give what I can.
And then I really, there was a talk, and I really subscribed to the 10 % tithing, and I've been doing it now for a couple of years.
And that doesn't mean that I've been given it, given it back tenfold, or anything like that.
It's, it's more a back to the energy exchange.
Eileen: You don't have to put a meaning on it.
Well, the meaning that I put on it, and it can be different for everybody,
what's your Why?
Why do I give? Because as a Christian, I believe that I don't own anything that I have, that it was all given as a gift, a blessing, and that I'm a steward of this money.
And so the way that I-I work it is ultimately a way to honor God. And the more that I've done that, the easier it is to let go of it, too, which i think is really important, too. Like being in that flow that money is an energy exchange.
And that, even when you're broke, having that tight stronghold, which is basically a noose around your neck..
It's not you being a good steward of it by not giving a penny.
It's different. When you're doing that, you likely have a strangle hold on lots of other areas of your life and aren't allowing flow and lots of other areas of your life.
Eileen: Because everything is energy.
And if you cause resistance against it, then everything is hard.
Everything that should be easy becomes hard, and it's all coming from within with the resistance that you're feeling.
And you can do that with anything.
Rachel: How do you talk about giving then, with your women that you coach?
Eileen: So the way that I teach money is the same way I taught my son.
And I always tell a story about how my son and I decided how he wanted to give his money. And it's the same thing that i ask of ALL people.. really think about it comes back to your values.
If you wanna tithe at church or wherever, your religious affiliation, yes, you know, go for it!
If you're not religious, then what do you value?
Right? What do you value? What is important to you? Right?
And just as an example for me, um, I was a victim of domestic violence, and I give 10 % of every sale to a domestic violence shelter for women and their children.
And my son and I are both very big on saving the Earth, and so he donates money to, um, it's called the Global Water Center.
He, my son, we go to lectures on Friday night at the Science Museum.
And a few years ago, we were at this lecture, and they were the, the, the guy who started the Global Water Center was there doing a talk, and it blew my son's mind.
And one of the things was that water is so contaminated around the world, and how we don't have any new water on this planet.
All the water that is here is the same water that has been here since Earth was created, and it's just getting so polluted.
And no one really thinks about that. You know, you don't think about that at all.
It's like, oh, wait, where is the water coming from? You know, this is fresh water, but it's been processed over and over.
So he just like, fell in love with this organization. And then he ran to the front to talk to him after, and he said, I'm gonna work for you someday!
And it was awesome. So he, he donates his money to them.
And, you know, and so we always talk about what are the things that are important to you?
So, like, are you an animal lover? You know, is there a specific type of shelter or something?
You know, what's really important to you? Who are the people that you wanna help?
You know, are there animals you wanna help?
Are there trees you want to save?
It all comes down to what's important to you and what would make you feel good to share your money, to be helping someone or something in the world, right?
And that's really what giving is, you know. And then it can also be like, hey, my kid's doing a fundraiser at school, you know, can you help out?
And it could be like, you know, as small as that.
Rachel: Because it's a season for everything.
And sometimes it is just the fundraisers, and God knows, there's plenty of them!
Eileen: There’s a ton of those!
And then also, recently, I've been seeing a ton of Go fund Me for people that have been having tragedies, which is also another thing that is so important to put money aside just for that.
When I tell my money what to do, I have lines for everything. I have a line for fun.
I have a line for, you know, shit happens. I have a line for giving.
I have a line for doing good in the world, you know, like, all different things.
And so I have it just divided up of, like, this is how much is going to the charity of my choice.
This is how much I'm saving for, like, miscellaneous stuff, like the fundraisers and go fund me and things like that, because I wanna help with those things.
And I don't wanna be like, oh sorry, kid, I can't buy your chocolate bar.
You know, I have to go get gas in my car, you know.
And so it's just thinking like that of like, how can I help with my money?
And the more money that I have, the more good I can do.
Rachel: I like the shit happens category, too. And also, to make a point about that, the more that you're telling yourself where to go, telling your money where to no, the less shit will happen, the less shit stinks.
Shit'll happen, but it doesn't stink. It doesn't feel like you just stepped in it with your bare feet.
Eileen: We save for everything.
Like I know a lot of other programs out there just have an emergency fund, but I set it up totally different so that when shit does hit the fan, you've got the money for that thing.
Rachel: So saving, investing, giving and spending.
Eileen: So that's where spending comes in.
It's like first, you set up everything else so that you're saving for yourself, first. Because what most people do when they spend, so you get your check, you get your money, and the first thing you do is pay your bills, and then you have this little bit left over.
Right? And then you hope you have enough left for groceries and gas and maybe a fun night out.
And then that's when there's more months left at the end of the money, right?
And then you're like, oh, man, have to use my credit card now, you know.
And then that's how you slowly creep into debt, because you have this lifestyle creep.
The lifestyle creep is all about spending. So what happens is that we were talking about earlier with cars, right?
So you first get your first car, then you get your first job.
Your first “real job”.
And you've never made this much money in your life, and it's like, woo hoo, need better car, right?
I'm gonna go get an apartment. I'm gonna go get this, and I'm gonna go get that, and I'm gonna get, get, get, get, get, get, get in your spending.
But there's nowhere about saving, right? So every time that you either get a new job or you get a raise, or you come into some money, whether it's an inheritance, or you win something, you spend it, right?
And that's lifestyle creep. So your lifestyle is creeping up and up and up, and it happens so slowly that you don't realize it's happening.
You go from that starter home to that next, moving up home to that next, moving up home.
Then eventually, when you're retirement, you're moving all the way back down to the starter home, you know, exactly, or apartment!
Rachel: That's such a great point too, is that I have friends who are older, and something stuck with me when her husband died and she moved to a different house.
And she said, it's so funny that you spend all of your life trying to get more things. All the first part of your life trying to get more things, and then the second part of your life trying to give it away.
The mindset, which is what we were just talking about before we even got on here, were, I'm 45.
You just turned 50. We talked about where the hell is time going?
But also the gift of that is that we really start to be mindful about what is important, what we will and will not tolerate, what we really want to leave as a legacy.
Which, in closing, I wanna talk about that. What do we do these things for? For the people who are watching.
And that's one of the big things. It's not just getting your own isch together.
It's learning how to do this for yourself so you can teach your kids, because that's the most important.
That is the legacy, right? The legacy is giving your children a financial education.
We don't want our children's financial education to be..
There's no money.
There's no money. How can we pay the bills? We're gonna scream and yell at each other because we've spent all the money, right?
We don't want that sort of underlying trauma coursing through their veins when they're 45.
Eileen: And it all starts with you, and the way that you talk about money in your house, and it's really being mindful of including your kids in the process.
So it doesn't matter how old they are, whether they're newborns, or they're in their teens, start the process.
And the earlier, the better. So if they're 0-3,
You know, get them started. Get them an investment account.
Get that going, right? Put in whatever you can. Just get it started.
Because the longer that that money has time to compound, look out, right?
I've set my son up. He's gonna be a multi-millionaire by the time he's my age, before he's even my age.
You know, he will have that opportunity and choice and time freedom, and he can decide if he wants to work or not.
Knowing him, he will probably work and volunteer everywhere in the world.
Rachel: But to be able to have that choice..
Eileen: That's what the money freedom is. That's really what it comes down to.
Financial independence, financial freedom. It's the freedom of choosing whether or not you want to work and how you want to live your life, and how much more fun do you wanna have in your lifetime?
How much more time you'll have to spend with the people that you love instead of having your boss tell you how much time you have to spend with your family, right?
And that's what lit the fire under my butt too, is, after I had my son, I was like, I want to spend as much time with this amazing person as I possibly can.
You know, he's my best friend. I love spending time with him.
And it's like, and now, even more that I only get to see him half the time when he's with his father.
I'm like, I wonder what he's doing, you know. I treasure every second that I get to see him and spend with him.
And, and it's so important, like, that's my value, you know, and everyone's values are different, and you just need to figure out what do you value?
And that's your North Star, right? That is your North Star.
And instead of saying, ah, I have to go to work, I hate my life, there's got to be a better way.
Well, there is.
There is. It's really just waking up and realizing that you do have a choice.
You're not stuck.
Rachel: How can people follow you? Are you on Instagram, facebook?
And how can they sign up for your course?
Eileen: I'm everywhere.
The easiest place to find me is through my website, momswhomoney.com
You can find me everywhere. My podcast is there. Money School for Moms is there.
I also work one on one with people as well. I do one on one money coaching and, um, I'm on instagram, Facebook, Linkedin, I’m everywhere.
Rachel: What is the podcast called?
Eileen: It's called Moms Who Money.
And it's streaming everywhere. I also have a freebie that I can give to your audience as well.
So I have this awesome guide.
It's a free guide. That's how to teach your kids to be money savvy.
Eileen: And so it's easy. You just go to momswhomoney.com/kids.
Rachel: You just posted something about how you and your son made $500 in one afternoon.
Eileen: We're in the process of cleaning out his playroom. He's just went into middle school, and we still have all of his stuff from as he was, you know, growing.
And so we had, like, this table and chairs, and his play kitchen, and all these toys in there, and different furniture pieces that he's not using anymore.
It's just sitting there. And he sat down at the table the other day, and I was like, my God, you look like a giant! (Laughs!)
And so we were cleaning things out, and my son is addicted to the show Hoarders.
It's hilarious, so he's like, we need to do this hoarder style!
So we put all these boxes out, and so it was like, trash, recycle, donate, sell and all these different things.
And so we were sorting through things, and then, like, the boxes were just filling up so fast.
And I said, all right, we've got to get rid of some of these things.
And so some of the bigger items I just posted, like on Facebook marketplace and a few of those other Facebook groups, and I was like, you know, for sale.
And within minutes, minutes, is this item available? Is this item available?
This item? It was insane. Like, within minutes, everything was sold.
And like people were like, can I Venmo you now to hold it?
And, you know, I didn't price it really high.
I priced it, you know, a very reasonable price, like, some people put stuff on there, and they like, they wanna, they want back what they spent for it, you know?
Like, that's ridiculous. I'm like, I know someone else can use this, you know.
So that's why it went so fast, you know.
The room is still full, and I'm still going through stuff.
And so we're gonna take all the stuff and we're figuring out what's going where, um, I also just donated some stuff to Hope House this morning.
I donate a Hope House. It’s an organization that goes around and they collect items, household items and different things, clothing from people.. And they provide these items to women shelters who are victims of domestic violence.
And so they come around every other month. So every other month I have something to get, whether I find something, because I'll get the email that they're gonna be in the area, and I'm like, all right, let's get a bag going, you know, and, um, whether it's clothing or it's just stuff I have.
Or, you know, whatever, I always try to give and so we gave a lot to them as well.
It was a fun experience, and it was fun for him to clean out all of his old things.
And I let him lead, you know, I wasn't saying, we're getting rid of everything, you know.
I'm like, this is your stuff. So I will sit back and I will help you go through your things.
Rachel: I can't believe this was successful. My children would be like, well, I might use that still.
And why are you gonna get rid of this? And, you know, something that they haven't even seen in three years?
Eileen: You know, that happened because I've tried this before, and he started doing that.
I said, this isn't the right time.
Rachel: I just wait till they turn their back and shove it all in the trash. (Laughter)
And that's the only way it works around our house.
Eileen: With some things, I do that as well.
Rachel: Thank you, Eileen Joy, for bringing joy to this conversation, this topic of money, and reminding us that money is the tool.
Money is the energy.
The treasure is our lives. The treasure is our relationship.
The treasure is our enjoyment. And knowing that the time on this Earth is limited, and spending your money wisely is how you spend time on this Earth in a wise and more free way, and how you are an example to the upcoming generation on how to do the same.
Because that's what we want for them. Ultimately, is that feeling of freedom and the feeling that they get to choose how they want to live, that they are responsible for their own happiness, that they get to choose and create a life that can be full of joy.
But it starts with understanding how to do that. And money is such an important critical tool to all of that.
If you want to learn more about my company, Reconnected To Life, please go and join the mailing list. And you will learn about all the upcoming events, upcoming workshops, retreats, and courses that will be coming soon.
And again, please, if you like this, podcast, rate, review and contribute.
This is also a way to give to something that is for a good cause, energetically, to shine light on the world, and to ignite the light that is already within you.
So go forth. And thank you, Eileen Joy. And thank you for being “Self-Centered”.