The Payments Experts Podcast
Expert payments attorneys discuss the electronic payments industry from a legal perspective.
The Payments Experts Podcast
The ISO Survival Guide: Innovation in a Consolidating Payment Industry | Guests Payzli.com | PEP043
The payment processing landscape is transforming dramatically, and nowhere is this more evident than in the changing relationship between processors, ISOs, and merchants. In this revealing conversation with the leadership team from Paisley, we dive deep into the future of payment processing and how innovation is reshaping the industry.
Remember when Card Connect was acquired by First Data, and later when Fiserv stepped in? According to our guests, this marked a pivotal moment when service quality plummeted for many ISOs. "It used to take a couple of hours same day to resolve issues. Now it takes four, five, six days," explains one Paisley executive, highlighting the catalyst for their entrepreneurial journey.
The team presents a fascinating metaphor that perfectly captures today's payment ecosystem: Paisley operates as a "nimble speedboat," able to quickly implement cutting-edge technologies and solutions. Fiserv and similar companies function as "big yachts" – dominant but slow to maneuver. And Visa? They're simply "the water" – the fundamental infrastructure without which nobody moves.
What sets Payzli apart is their innovative approach to merchant services. They've developed AI-powered solutions for review generation, chargeback mitigation, and streamlined operations. Their point-of-sale system engages customers through push notifications, collects feedback through simple questions, and uses AI to generate authentic reviews that merchants can push to Google – just one example of how they're transcending traditional payment processing.
The conversation takes a particularly interesting turn when discussing risk management and merchant communications. In an industry where funds can be held for weeks without explanation, Payzli emphasizes white-glove service and open communication channels, especially during sensitive situations like underwriting or risk holds.
Whether you're a payment professional, ISO owner, or merchant looking for innovative solutions, this episode offers valuable insights into how the industry is evolving and how companies like Paisley are carving out their place in a consolidating market. Discover why the future belongs not to the largest players, but to those who can adapt quickly while maintaining strong partner relationships.
Ready to learn more about Paisley's innovative approach to payment processing? Visit payzli.com or email support@payzli.com to connect with their team.
Visit Payzli online at payzli.com or email support@payzli.com to learn more about their partner-centric payment processing solutions.
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**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**
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Visit us today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/
A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm
square, square, arguably, could have wiped everybody out, everyone if they were, if they were more like you guys. Right so, and then I had a question. You said you guys are the speedboat and I pictured a really nice one. Five serves the yacht and I pictured a really, really nice one. What's visa? I mean, this is the water man.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:Jesus is God Without the water you don't go anywhere. He's the payment God up there.
Speaker 4:Welcome to the Payments Experts Podcast, a podcast of Global Legal Law Firm.
Speaker 1:We hope you enjoy this episode. The.
Speaker 2:Z-L-I. It's a different way to spell Paisley. Yeah, paisley.
Speaker 4:Paisley, I like that Paisley. Okay, that's good. Oh Paisley, oh, I got it, paisley.
Speaker 3:P-A-Y-Z-L-I Got it. That is clever, yeah, right. So when I was exploring, like at T-Mobile, and I understood they were making money residually, right, the store owners were just hustling phones. Right, it's, you're as good as your next sale. Right, I got. I got inspired again. What through that conversation with my teacher and I was like I need to find residual income and while I fell into payments and have never looked back since it's it's like the best business in the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we love it too. I mean, that's why we like this industry. We like working with guys like you that are innovating and moving and hustling. And so I'll clarify my comment of why I would boo someone like Card Connect One. I loved First Data. I loved working with them when they were a privately held company. It was great. They were all about the ISOs. We almost went to work for them doing their collections work.
Speaker 1:So I heard, when you said collections, I was like my man, because that's how we started out in the industry is, we would sue on the leases when people would default on their 10 vx20s that they got leased for 100 bucks a piece and they had one one point of sale. So, anyways, uh, that's how we got started in the space and they were great. Uh, their senior counsel I consider a friend, you know kind of frenemies, and the reason we didn't go to work for him is because we're like no, we don't want to get conflicted out, we'd have way more fun suing you guys. And then so as the as it progressed and this is a topic of our last podcast we're going you guys don't even care about the ISO anymore. It seems like you don't even want the ISOs anymore.
Speaker 1:And you know Card Connect for, for example, uh, last year they sent out that notice that said oh, we've been billing you guys wrong, you owe us 400 grand for the last, you know, 10 years, don't worry, we'll just take, you know, 60k a month, um, so it's gnarly. So they're really operating against. So I'm just curious and this, I know this isn't what we plan to talk about, but what are your guys' thoughts on? Can the ISO survive? You know this consolidation and that you know. Basically, the processors don't seem to have any interest in the ISO. Well, I'll take that, man, I'll take that.
Speaker 3:You know part of the reason. You know at my core, right, because you know it was a pretty decent size ISO for Card Connect and you know when the acquisition happened. Um, or you know, when you go public, right, the dynamics change a bit, right, the company changes a bit. So Card Connect transitioned into a public company and they changed a little bit, but the worst change happened when they got bought out of the public market by first data, right, so the culture that had been built, like that entrepreneurial brine, like the support the partner meant mantra, you know that dissipated pretty damn quick, right, and what I began to see is like, when Fiserv came in and did a merger with First Data, like it just completely fell apart. Yeah Well, partner ISO channel is like put to the wayside. Yeah, I mean, it was so bad.
Speaker 3:You know that and I'm extremely loyal, right, you know loyalty is at my core, but I'm also loyal to myself, right, I'm loyal to a company until that company kind of stops doing what they do. Right, and I was back in 2017, 18 is when I began to think I'm like, look, I can't tie myself to a company like a FISE, like a Card Connect that has been acquired and has no decision making ability anymore. It used to take, you know, a couple of hours same day. You know, issues that they would resolve for me is now taking four or five, six days. Right, that's a problem for me, right? So not to knock them.
Speaker 3:Look, everybody goes through an evolution, right, and you know, as a problem for me, right? So not to knock them. Look, everybody goes through an evolution, right, and you know, as a company, you make decisions of what you want to evolve to. They made a decision when they decided to sell the first data. You know good for them. I mean, they had a great exit. But you know, when you transition into this large organization, just know business is going to change and the partnerships that you built your core on your business on, they're also going to experience that change. Are you willing to put them through that? Or are there other things at your core that are more important to you? To me, you know we're built on the partner channel and you know because that's where I came from right, we're in the people business and when you're in the people business, you want to make sure that those people who are helping you grow are okay, okay.
Speaker 1:So how do you think let's forget Card Connect for a little bit? Sounds like none of us really can, but do you guys think the ISO has a future in this industry? Will the ISO survive? Before we were discussing we were talking about really, I think with us they do, yeah, so that's a loaded question.
Speaker 2:James.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. That's why we're here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and let me address that right. You're starting to see a transition where you know, for the past five, six, even seven years, you know large companies are merging, even seven years. You know large companies are merging. You know large companies are acquiring to eat more of the share. You know first data. You know you have to give them props where props are right. I think one of the biggest you know accomplishments that they've had over the years is the creation of clover right.
Speaker 3:Right, because you can't escape, you cannot escape Fiserv. Right, you have to do business with Fiserv at least a little bit because the market demands it. Right, they've done a great job putting their name out there. So we will use Fiserv. But we're an FSP, right, we're an FSP. And the difference between the retail, traditional retail ISO and a wholesale ISO slash FSP is. You know we abide by a different set of laws when it comes to how we interact with Pfizer.
Speaker 3:We also set up a payment rail through Visa Platform Connect. Visa Platform Connect is you know they've rolled out a ton of functionality for you know, an ISO that's looking to have better technology to go to market with. Right, so you have to bring solutions. Right, but you can also strap on solutions from Visa Platform you to survive the traditional payment landscape where you're selling credit card terminal. That's gone and it's far gone. Things that are happening right now. We're talking Web3, we're talking IoT, and it's moving there rapidly, right. So what is the strategy that you have in place that's going to allow you to align with a company that has this technology at their core right and that's that? That's what the traditional 1099 sales partner out there has to begin to ask themselves.
Speaker 1:I'm not talking about the 1099s, I'm talking about you guys. How do you guys weather the storm?
Speaker 3:I think so Because the way we're going to weather the storm is we're aligned with the largest player in the industry, and that's Visa. You know, player in the industry right, and that's Visa right. So we're utilizing Visa Platform Connect in order to power our ISO right. We also, you know, are partners with our bank right. So, you know, paisley is a little bit different than your traditional ISO.
Speaker 1:Right. Why don't you tell us what does set you guys apart?
Speaker 3:A lot, man, a lot sets us apart. I don't want to hog the whole call. You know, I think you know, but from the you know when you think about some of the technology that we're rolling out. You know when you think about some of the technology that we're rolling out, like we're exploring how we can use AI, for example, in order to streamline our operations. You know the way we build technology, the end solutions that we're providing merchants. You know, from chargeback mitigation to generating reviews, right.
Speaker 4:So think of Paisley as a very nimble.
Speaker 3:You know speedboat. And then think of Pfizer as a big yacht. Right, big yacht is dominant, right, it takes up a lot of space but it doesn't move as quick. Right, because it takes a lot to move that yacht, right, but Paisley, we could implement, like, the latest tools, the latest technology. You know, we see something that actually makes sense, like.
Speaker 3:I'll give you an example vertical that our point of sale system is focused on is reviews, right. So we got to work and we began to think about okay, how do we recreate the reviews process utilizing some of the tools that we have access to today that didn't exist two years ago? Right, and we put together a phenomenal process that engages with a customer at the end of a sale through a push notification, whether it's in-app or text message or email. Well, they'll receive a link, they click on the link, they go to a page, answer three questions, simple questions about their experience, and then, on the back end of that, ai is going to take that information. We have embedded information within the point of sale that we understand about the consumer, understand about the business. We're going to match that data and we're going to spit out a review that now you can push to Google Right, and we can do things like that. You know, and we're always going to be able to do things like that Right.
Speaker 3:Fiserv is not looking to fill solutions like this Right. So there's a space for Fiserv and then there's a space for innovative ISOs. I think the level of innovation has changed and has shifted Right, has changed and has shifted right. If you're an iso that's innovating in the same way that you used to back in the 2000s or 1990, you've already lost yeah, yeah, I mean the model.
Speaker 1:But I kind of said at the beginning is, you know, one of the reasons we love this industry, you know, we, we call ourselves global because we liked our clients so much. We saw global everywhere. We're like oh, we want to sound like our clients. And then, interestingly, an attorney was fighting with us recently and he said don't you think it's a little misleading to call yourself global when you only have offices in the USA? And I had all these great responses. One of them was like was like no, we're just named after the shape, but anyways, so one of the reasons we like, I think you know to the point, though, it's not just about technology, right, right people get it wrong.
Speaker 3:They're like okay, technology, technology, technology. We don't want to talk to anybody like look at square, for example, they've done well, but you know, in my opinion they could do way better they could do way better.
Speaker 1:No, all of our clients, they used to say they're sales organizations. Now they all say that they're fintechs companies. Because, yes, you have to be, because square, square, square, arguably could have wiped everybody out, everyone if they were, if they were more like you guys, right. So, and then I had a question. You said you guys are the speedboat, and I pictured a really nice one. Five serves the yacht and I pictured a really, really nice one. What's visa?
Speaker 3:I mean this is the water, man yeah exactly, he's just.
Speaker 1:God. Without the water you don't go anywhere.
Speaker 2:He's the payment God up there.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I mean I think some of the most sensitive situations in payments can revolve around risk-related situations or underwriting situations.
Speaker 5:Right around risk-related situations or underwriting situations, right, Whether it be a large merchant that you're trying to get approved as a sales partner or you have a merchant who has funds held due to suspicious activity, you know these are situations that, as a sales partner and as a merchant, you really want to feel like there's white glove service happening for you, especially as a business owner. Not receiving your deposits for days or weeks can potentially put you under. So just trying to really have all channels of communication open with merchants and partners that's one of that's something that we definitely put emphasis on. We're definitely a very partner centric organization, starting with the top. I mean, as Naeem mentioned, he's been operating in that capacity for 20 years as a sales partner, so really we've tried to instill that strategy throughout our organization and really just try to make it a great experience for partners and merchants, especially during difficult situations like a risk hold or a complicated underwriting package. Really, just try to have direct communication.
Speaker 2:Well, quick turnaround time too. That's what we found. There were situations where we had merchants going at 40% per month and literally just shouting across the room Chris, what can we do about this? Like, what are we willing to do? And getting that immediate response was fantastic.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think underwriting, turnaroundwriting turnaround and just onboarding in general, I think the speed, the faster that you can get an account submitted, underwritten, approved, equipment deployed it's. It's extremely important, especially to our partners that we work with, because he's not to throw CarConnect under the bus today. You know we we also operate in a sales, we have a sales, retail ISA relationship with Car Connect, so we're still dealing with slow onboarding times with them, whereas we try to really emphasize the speed of submission to underwriting, to approval, to equipment deployment. It's good to hear, I mean, a lot of take pride in here here we get a lot of business merchants going, I've got reserves tied up and I can't even get to the right person's desk, yeah.
Speaker 1:So unfortunately for a lot of those people that call us, we say, hey, yeah, that company that you're going after actually we're their lawyer. So, you know, have somebody contact us, uh. But actually a lot of times it works out where we go hey, let's waive conflict and we just represent both parties to help expedite that. But it that shouldn't even have to happen. A lot of time and you know, for for a lot of our clients it doesn't happen because they are at least discussing it. But when you have, you know, a dracon which you know it kind of needs to be that says I can hold this money for 180 days related to the last processing activity and oh, you had one chargeback, so I'm holding two million dollars of your money, a lot of times it just seems a little a a little unreasonable. Unless there's actual risk, I get it.
Speaker 1:Why am I going to put myself out? You're doing a business that's, you know, you you're doing a timeshare business, where, or getting people out of their timeshares, and you've taken all these people's money and you're saying, oh yeah, it could take, you know, six months to a year, a couple years to get you off. Sure, that person can still do a charge back and you hold their money. But other businesses, you know, it just seems like we see a lot of time of like it's a little unreasonable and you're not even supposed to be able to use or play with this money. So you know why, why are you holding it? And you know the reason is because I can and I let. I like seeing big numbers on my bank account. You know I log into my laptop before bed. It makes me feel cozy, safe and warm. But it's not your money. So you're holding it, you know, just because you can, because the card brand rules don't say anything, they just say it has to be reasonable absolutely yeah, let me make the decision.
Speaker 3:Let me look into this merchant. Give me the warning. Let me look into him and then I'll make the decision if I want to do business with him or not.
Speaker 1:Well, I've never heard of a situation where a processor or somebody came after another processor or bank for not putting someone on match because they had a blowout account. I've never heard of that happening. So know, fine, that's out there. Because how would you? You'd have to go figure it out, um, but anyways, I've never heard of that happening. But my boy I'm always scratching my head here is it's hard to get processing, processing money on your when you're on match.
Speaker 1:The visa rules say you can't decline somebody because they're, just because they're on match. But almost every single bank says we don't take match. So how are those banks not in violation of the visa rules? I mean, they're in violation of visa rules all over the place because most of them aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing. You know they rely on you guys to do it all and then they say they're doing it but they're not to be doing. You know they rely on you guys to do it all and then they say they're doing it but they're not. But aside from that, how are they not violating visa rules just for that?
Speaker 2:alone.
Speaker 1:No comment credit policy it's the correct so I have a policy that says you know, interesting contradiction, gay people can't buy my cakes, but you know this doesn't make it okay, so, um, anyways, all right. Well, do you?
Speaker 2:guys have no comment. You're on no comment yeah, completing the fifth.
Speaker 1:That's what that's called. Uh, do you guys have anything else that you'd like to bring up? This has been good. It's good to hear a lot about your business. I think a bunch of our uh viewers or listeners will be interested in contacting you guys, so how about you give us uh? What's the best way to get in touch with you guys?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean, the best way to get in touch with us is, uh, support at paisleycom. Uh, that's that'sa great way for our whole team to have access to our whole team. Check us out on our website, payzlicom. If you're interested in a partnership or a merchant account. There's plenty of places on the website to find us. Linkedin. Linkedin Facebook we're everywhere man. Us LinkedIn Facebook we're everywhere man. It's a unique name P-A-Y-Z-L-I. You'll find all sorts of information about us.
Speaker 1:What's the Z-L-I stand for?
Speaker 2:Z-L-I the. Z-l-i it's a different way to spell Paisley. Yeah, p-a-i-s-e-l-y.
Speaker 4:I different way to spell Paisley, yeah, paisley, I like that Paisley, okay, that's good. Oh Paisley, oh I got it.
Speaker 1:Paisley P-A-I-Z-L-I Got it. That is clever yeah.
Speaker 4:Awesome. Yeah, it's been great having you guys on the podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening this long to the Payments Experts Podcast We've had with us today Cara, chris and Naeem from Paisley. Go check them out at paisleycom. James, as always, thank you and we will see you on the next one.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much Thank you for listening this long, and you always do that, but it's like man you've made it through.
Speaker 4:Thank you for listening to this episode of the Payments Experts Podcast, a podcast of Global Legal Law Firm. Visit us online today at globallegallawfirmcom.