The Payments Experts Podcast
Expert payments attorneys discuss the electronic payments industry from a legal perspective.
The Payments Experts Podcast
Dual Pricing Revolution: How Tech is Changing the Game | Conversation With Paul Hadfield | PEP049
Paul Hadfield shares his journey from college dropout to successful payment processor, emphasizing the importance of building sticky merchant relationships through technology and customer service rather than treating them as short-term revenue sources. Enjoy this conversation with James Huber, managing partner of Global Legal Law Firm.
• Started in payments in 2001 after answering a newspaper ad while contemplating dropping out of college
• Built and sold his first ISO in 2013, then created another payment processing company focused on long-term business building
• Transitioned from a pure sales approach to technology-focused solutions as the industry evolved
• Created a cash discount application for Clover that now has approximately 7,000 active users
• Observed how COVID changed merchant and consumer attitudes toward payment processing fees
• Focused business strategy on restaurant industry where point-of-sale systems can function as a "central nervous system"
• Recently sold his second payments company while maintaining an entrepreneurial role
• Believes in fostering honest feedback from employees to drive continuous improvement
• Values building businesses with long-term vision rather than short-term profit goals
Contact Paul at paulhadfield.co or email him at paul@trnxn.com.
Imagine starting your career in the basement of a dental office, slinging merchant accounts on 100% commission, and building that hustle into multiple successful payment processing companies. That's exactly what Paul Hadfield did after answering a newspaper ad that promised ongoing monthly residuals for each sale—a concept so appealing it prompted him to drop out of college.
What separates Paul's approach from many in the payments industry is his fundamental philosophy: "Never lose a customer." While some processors view merchants as revenue sources to exploit with hidden fees and restrictive contracts, Paul built his businesses treating merchants as long-term partners. This perspective became increasingly critical as the industry evolved from simple terminal-based systems to sophisticated technology platforms.
The conversation explores how the payments landscape has transformed dramatically over the past two decades. Around 2016-2017, Paul noticed a pivotal shift where technology began outweighing relationships and pricing as the deciding factor for merchants. This realization led him to develop specialized solutions like a cash discount application for Clover and focus intensely on the restaurant industry, where point-of-sale systems can function as a business's "central nervous system" when properly implemented.
Perhaps most fascinating is Paul's observation about how the pandemic fundamentally changed merchant and consumer attitudes toward payment processing fees. Pre-COVID, implementing surcharges or cash discounts often met resistance; post-pandemic, these practices gained widespread acceptance as consumers became more understanding of businesses' need to offset costs.
After building and selling multiple payment companies, Paul shares valuable insights about entrepreneurship, leadership challenges, and the delicate balance of providing honest feedback in organizations. Whether you're in the payments industry or running any business, his journey offers valuable lessons about building sticky customer relationships and adapting to technological change without losing your core values.
**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**
Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/
A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm
I'd go into the courtroom with a judge grayer hair than me and you know I'd slam down the visa rules, being like they're violating the visa rules, right, and you know judge whips out his wad of cash and he's just, you know the visa, what I mean? A lot of people like still, they'd use credit cards, like kind of, but no, he's operating on cash. And I'd have to draw, you know, this whole chart out. Here's how the system works and all of that. And you know a lot of judges they'd like it and they'd be like, oh, wow, I know, but they're like why do I care? After COVID, it was now they are leaning forward when I'm giving this presentation, the same presentation I've been giving it for 15 years, and they're leaning forward and they're saying thank you, like, oh my gosh, wow, I had no idea, no wonder I'm getting jacked. And everybody's getting jacked Like, yeah, let's sue some people in here.
Speaker 2:You know the card associations are cracking down a little bit on it. I mean, they're starting to pass fines off for businesses that aren't doing it the right way. And technically you know the way you're supposed to do it is your advertised price needs to be your card price and then you're discounting off of that right. But so many businesses do it the other way, where they're increasing and then it's a surcharge and then it becomes a whole problem.
Speaker 1:It's a whole problem and they'll fine you $1,000 for the first one and they'll be like fix it. But in that grace period we'll come secret shop you three more times. And we have one client that we sued Visa over $70,000 fine for one merchant and you can't pass that on to the merchant.
Speaker 3:They're out of business. Welcome to the Payments Experts Podcast, A podcast of global legal law firm. We hope you enjoy this episode. Very excited today in studio driving down from Costa Mesa, California, we have Paul Hadfield Paul. Welcome to the Payments Experts Podcast studio. With us is James Huber, managing partner of the law firm, Jennifer. Gentlemen, we're looking forward to a great conversation today.
Speaker 1:All right, paul, thanks for driving down.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So why don't you tell us how'd you end up in this wonderful world of payments?
Speaker 2:You know it's actually. This is a really funny story. So I was in college and freshman year immediately felt like I didn't fit in and so I started figuring like, well, all right, well, if I'm going to drop out of college, I better have something to tell my parents. Yeah, so I answered an ad in a local paper. You know we're talking 2001. That's where you found jobs in the paper Right, right Outside of a grocery store.
Speaker 2:They had stacks of these like career builder or whatever it is. And I'm just going through the sales section. So I'm like I can sell stuff. And there was an ad that said you know, make tons of money selling a product to businesses. And so I just called and they're like yeah, come on, come on down and I go into this basement, the basement of like a like a dental office, the basement of like a like a dental office. And it was this small ISO of First American Payment Systems, just kind of like figuring stuff out, getting their feet wet. And I sit down at this guy's desk and he's like yeah, you sell this, these products, this payments products, and you get a little bit of money every single month. And I was like, is that even legal?
Speaker 2:They're like yeah, I'm like I just make the sale and I get money every single month, and I was like is that even legal? They're like, yeah, I'm like I just make the sale and I get money every single month. And they're like, yeah, and they're like, but it's a hundred percent commission, and I'm like I don't care, Like let's let's do it Right. So I call my parents, I'm like I'm dropping out of school and blah, blah blah.
Speaker 1:So anyway they were.
Speaker 2:They were not happy. No, they were not happy.
Speaker 1:Well, they might be smiling now.
Speaker 3:What were you studying at the time, Paul? What was your major?
Speaker 2:You know I actually was. I wanted to be in physical therapy because I played sports in high school, had a bunch of knee injuries, loved my physical therapist and you know I grew up with dreams of like being a baseball player. And then in high school I'm like, well, okay, I'm not going to play pro, Right. Thought that I would, yeah. And then, like you start playing against like other kids that are really good and you're like you're no longer that good, Right, Like I'm definitely not going pro. But I was like, if I can't play sports, I'd be fun to like work with athletes, Right. And so then I get to school and starting school yeah, why do I have to know?
Speaker 2:math. Exactly like I have to spend four years learning chemistry and math and go deep into debt like I just, can you just teach me about fix that knee? Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's a. That's a different podcast. Yeah, all right, yeah, but yeah, that was my introduction into payments is working for a real small ISO. And then I eventually got to the point where I was like I can do this on my own Right, I don't need these guys. I had nothing to risk In my early 20s. You know, my bills were nothing. Right, right, I'm roommate. I got no car payment. I'm like I can live off peanut butter jelly sandwiches and just go out and sling merchant accounts.
Speaker 1:So then the rest is history.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, the rest is kind of history. I built up an ISO that I sold in 2013,. Then started another ISO that actually just sold. This last at the end of last year.
Speaker 1:So your 10, 10 year mark is build it up and sell it. Is that about right?
Speaker 2:I don't know man, you know I I never. It's funny because my I the first iso that I sold, I was like, well, that wasn't selling it for me wasn't as fun as building it right and so my next iso. I'm like you, you know what I'm going to build this lifestyle business and eventually pass it to my kids. The legal business name is Hadfield Group LLC and I'm like I'm going to give this to my kids to do. But things change.
Speaker 1:When you sold the first time, were you planning on going back? Because I hear a lot of times people are like I sold, I was going to get out and then I tried to do some other stuff and I was just not that good at it 100%.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what I did. So I actually I've always loved real estate. I wanted to get into commercial real estate and I was in Chicago where I lived for years, over a week, and there's some guys I know that run this big real estate fund and I want I set up a meeting with them to meet with them and like, hey, I want to get into commercial real estate and I have these ideas and blah, blah, blah. And this guy, uh, the the one of the founders of this company, he's sitting across the table from me and he's like why would you do that? I'm like because I'm interested in commercial real estate. He's like. He's like I was a stockbroker, that's where I made my money, and then I went into commercial real estate. He's like do you know how complicated my life became for so many years? He's like do you want to do that to yourself? Right, and I was like I don't know, I think so I thought I did, and he goes.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you he knows my payments background. He was like I'm going to write you a check right now. He's like if you say I'm going to go buy a commercial property, it's my first one. He's like I'm not giving you anything. I remember walking out of there I called my wife. I'm like I think I'm staying in the payments business. I mean, he made a great point. I mean that specialized knowledge, right. So one of the principles from Napoleon Hill's Think and Grow Rich, right. It's like specialized knowledge is a key to building wealth, right, right, and I've seen that as well in the payments business I always think of like a pyramid. It's like the longer that you're doing something, the more you're set alone at the top. You've got so much specialized knowledge it would be a shame to just throw it away.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I mean we run into the same thing. We'll have people call us up and be like, hey, my mom got hit and she lost her leg and this is a total pretend scenario, but you could make a lot of money doing that and we're going like no, like throwing that into what we do, it messes our systems up, so we'll be interviewing people and they'll be like, hey, I've got this big book of business.
Speaker 1:Most firms are like, yeah, great, yeah, well, take your book of business. We're like you got to shed all of it. Yeah, because we do this. Yes, only so. I totally agree. When you were, when you did it the first time and you started out, it's you, your backpack, you know what slang in it wasn't knuckle busters, but you're slang in VX 20. Sure, yep, were you doing the leasing model back then where you'd lease them A little bit? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, that's how I got started. I was doing collections on people that leased 10 VX20s for a single point of sale and were suing them for $140,000. Yeah, it was just good times, good business. We even had a collection department and these guys, they worked out this little scheme where they would one guy would call up and he'd be like yelling at him on the phone. He'd be like get on the phone. He'd be swearing this, be like yelling at him on the phone be like get on the phone.
Speaker 1:You'd be swearing this guy was good at it. He'd be like red faced, blurting out. And then the other guy would come up and be like, oh my gosh, I'm sorry I got to go and hung up. And then he'd call him back and he'd be like I'm so sorry, we just fired Dylan. We're, oh, we got the. You know, I'm heard. Finally, because these people, you know you're really good at sales. You know I'm sure you weren't doing that model Right, but these guys, you know they're shuffling the paper around and they get these merchants into it and they're, you know, not that good at business. Yeah, yeah, yeah, small business. Maybe they're great at their little business, but throw anything else in there and that's where we're always going. No, call an attorney when you're negotiating your mpa, that's right, because nobody does, and then you get stuck in arbitration. But anyways, that's how I got started and then, luckily, that's gone, even though I really did enjoy that from a dark middle school bully perspective. Yeah, yeah, I mean there's still.
Speaker 2:There's still equipment leasing out there. It's just not nearly as common. I mean there, as you probably know, I mean there's some large isos that that still do tons of leasing they'll still lease vx20s.
Speaker 1:I have guys, you know, I was on a call with this guy. He's got a sideways hat on and he's going like I don't even care about residuals, we're just still doing the leasing model. And I'm like, who does your collections? I'm just kidding. Um, so, what's okay. So you started it the first time backpack, built it up. You know what's, what's your playbook, what's your model of success and you know, if you don't want to give it away, fine. But um, obviously not everyone can do it. I tried to start an iso once and it was because I, you know, I had these clients that show up in a ferrari and lamborghini. I was like I'll just do that, yeah no, yeah, it didn't work well.
Speaker 2:I think for me it's changed over the years. Early on in the industry, the my key was um, a great sales team and great support, just tried and true. And that was a lot easier to do 15 years ago because I think technology was pretty much similar regardless of who you were. It's like you said, the VX520 is like everybody's using a terminal and cloud-based technology didn't really exist. E commerce was still kind of in its real early stages, yeah, so it was like the real only differentiators were price, service and then technology maybe was kind of starting to creep in with some basic things yeah.
Speaker 2:So if you just had a great sales team and you learned how to sell and take care of your customers, you could really build a viable business. You can still do that today, it's just gotten a lot harder.
Speaker 1:It's harder. I mean, back then you're just plucking people that were selling knives before.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Car dealership guys were great. Jeremy's laughing because I think he used to sell knives Cutco.
Speaker 3:I used to sell steaks.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's similar, that's legit.
Speaker 1:Door steaks. Okay, that's similar. That's legit door to door.
Speaker 2:If you had a cooler and you'd be like here, you want some. It was the truck. Have you seen those guys that, like, they sell speakers out of their car? You know, they see people on the sidewalk and like, hey, we have this overflow of speakers, man, we want them at 80 off. And did you buy some? No, they're garbage, man, they're garbage, yeah, no name like speakers or they have these big stories about how they have this whole you know truck full of speakers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, boise instead of boise, yeah, exactly yeah, yeah, so no, I mean we, we saw that we were in-house for our first client. As they built it from, I think like when we we were hired, they had like 12 or 13 people. They'd just grown out of their office. They're like you take our office, and then they grew to 400 nationwide and it was. They loved getting sales guys from car dealerships and that's all they had to do is go. You know, here's a number that's lower than what you got and that was it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what's the difference? I guess so you did that model. What's the difference? I guess so you did it, you did that model. What's the difference? Now can you still get somebody selling steaks and teach them how to sell payments?
Speaker 2:uh, yes, um, I think so. I, I don't, I don't do that. I think it's recruit from the steak steak department, the yeah, the local steak door-to-door stake company. Look, I think a great salesperson and a great sales team is something that's always going to be of value, for sure. But you know so, over the years, my biggest goal in payments was to, and still is to, never lose a customer. That's how I always look at it, right. So how sticky can I make this merchant relationship right? And I've always tried to treat a merchant relationship more of a like a business partner as opposed to like a piggy bank, right, that's like that's a lot of people in the industry. It's like, well, I have this merchant on board, let me lock them into a contract and then just keep banging them with fees and if they try to leave, get them into a merchant cash advance, get them.
Speaker 1:I remember going to a big merchant, jeremy, you went with me. We went to a merchant cash advance conference and we heard the guy and he's like this is just another hook, get him into an MCA. And then we won't tell you, because we're going to get them into six more and stack them all up, and then they're out of business, which was not the goal. That was the last conference. We went to those.
Speaker 2:For me it's always been. You know those are consistence I think A great sales team and great support have always been consistence. But then over the years, especially as time has gone, trying to find the right combination of technology to help that business operate more efficiently. Right, and that's the biggest thing today, is that there's so much specialized technology for businesses that if you're just giving them a thing right, a tool or a piece of technology, and it's not changing the trajectory of their business, it's not streamlining things, it's not making their business operate more efficiently, then you could still win that merchant, but it's just a matter of time before they find the thing that's best for them. So, to your point, you can find the stake salesman and he can make some sales.
Speaker 2:But I think any ISO or any payments business needs to latch on to technology and look at where is this business going to be in the best place for the next five years? What product, what service can I provide them that truly keeps them sticky? Because I've lost plenty of merchants over the years where I've had great relationships with them, been providing great service, great support, great pricing, but they found technology that's just going to be better for their business and I started to see that shift, probably around like 2016, 2017, where it was like, look, I think we're shifting more towards the technology era than like hey, I'm just a great local guy with you know good rates, and when did Clover come out? Like right then, I think Clover came out a little earlier.
Speaker 1:I want to say it was like 2012 or 2013.
Speaker 1:But the Clover, as far as machines go, I mean, it's the VX20 of POS machines, right? So if you're selling steaks, you can go sell a clover to somebody who is just running a terminal, no problem, because they're going oh, look at that, with spins and all this, but it doesn't really do what it said it would. We all hoped it was going to do. I mean, look, you still have to use that thing because people will do it. But yeah, I agree that it's not the next technology. So did you develop technology?
Speaker 2:Well. So we actually built a cash discount application on Clover's infrastructure and we almost did that. I've never been like a big cash discount proponent. You know, putting myself in like a merchant's shoes I'm like why wouldn't I just raise my price or whatever. But I think there's a lot of businesses that are real price conscious. If you're a burger restaurant, you don't want to have a burger that's a dollar more than the one down the street. People care about that stuff.
Speaker 2:So implementing cash discounting that was something that we had. Salespeople and ISOs and agents and even merchants coming to us saying, hey, somebody's telling us we can save a ton of money if we do this cash discount thing. So I think the options that existed in the marketplace. I wasn't thrilled with them. So, what's funny? There's a well-known Clover developer down in San Diego who I've seen some other applications they've built that have been just phenomenal, and I just cold called them one day and I'm like, hey, would you build an app for us? And this is how we want to build it. They're like, yeah, let's do it. So that's kind of how that started and I think as of today there's something like 7,000 active users and most came through word of mouth on that app store. So I think cash discounting is a huge thing because businesses, especially small businesses, they're looking for any edge they can get and cardholders don't care.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're getting hit everywhere.
Speaker 2:I mean Well, yeah, look if we're going to. I hate talking about COVID because like we're so far past that. But, if there's one benefit for small businesses that came out of it, it's that consumers are more. They're okay with extra fees. They understand it more.
Speaker 1:So when they see these different fees.
Speaker 2:That's just become more common. They know small businesses were struggling around that time. Businesses were adding more fees and now consumers, I think, are more OK with it.
Speaker 1:Totally. I mean, we saw the same thing. I tell the story often of I'd go into the courtroom with a judge grayer hair than me and you know I'd slam down the visa rules, being like they're violating the visa rules, right, and you know, judge whips out his wad of cash and he's just, you know the visa, what I mean. A lot of people like still, they'd use credit cards like kind of, but no, he's operating on cash, yeah, and I'd have to draw, you know, this whole chart out. Here's how the system works, and all of that. And you know a lot of judges they'd like it and they'd be like oh, wow, I know, but they're like why do I care? After covid, it was now. They are leaning forward when I'm giving this presentation the same presentation I've been giving it for 15 years and they're leaning forward and they're saying thank you Like oh my gosh, wow, I had no idea, no wonder I'm getting jacked. And everybody's getting jacked Like, yeah, let's sue some people in here.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, the card associations are cracking down a little bit on it. I mean, they're starting to pass fines off for businesses that aren't doing it the right way. And technically you know, the way you're supposed to do it is your advertised price needs to be your card price and then you're discounting off of that. But so many businesses do it the other way. They're increasing and then it's a surcharge and then it becomes a whole problem.
Speaker 1:It's a whole problem and they'll fine you $1,000 for the first one and they'll be like fix it. But in that grace period we'll come secret shop you three more times. And we have one client that we sued Visa over a $70,000 fine for one merchant and you can't pass that on to the merchant. They're out of business. So the ISOs are just eating it.
Speaker 2:That's right and yeah, it's brutal. A lot of the processors and ISOs pass it down to their sub-ISOs and agents.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, they fine the bank. This is how they're getting around it too, because we sued them and a judge said you guys didn't really get there, because you're the ISO, you're not really getting fined by Visa Right, because they're fining the bank and then the processor and then they're just pushing it down and we're like, well, it's dollar for dollar, yeah, so I have to sue Fiserv and the bank. I can't do that, right, or you're done, yeah, so what's the okay? So now that when you sold last time, was it I'm out clean walk or just some attrition?
Speaker 2:guarantees? No, so I had a business partner. I sold my half the business to my partner. Okay, great, and so this started a new one.
Speaker 1:Then started a new one and competed with him, burnt him to the ground just kidding. So this time you did things differently. This time you're going by me. They bought you. They own you now, more or less. I'm just kidding, can you talk?
Speaker 3:about that, paul, I think what I think what you're asking about, james, is you talked about setting this up for your family, right In the sense of this kind of looking forward is is that. Can you maybe explain what that looks like?
Speaker 2:So I so my last ISO when I started in this was like like 2014. Um, that, yeah, I the. The idea was I'm going to, I'm going to run this business forever, which I think, by the way, is a great way to go into a business, because you're laying the groundwork for something real long-term.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how do you build a culture around you when you're like, yeah, I'm going to be out of here in five years. I'm just going to pump this thing up and be done.
Speaker 2:I think it translates into how you take care of your employees and how you take care of your customers and, um, you know that long-term vision is is I've always skewed more towards long-term than short-term, um, and I think that employees can feel that customers can feel that you're just going to have a better culture in general. Um, but, yeah, I I again with my idea of never wanting to lose a customer. I latched onto as much technology as possible and started working with. I really started focusing on the restaurant world because, for me, restaurants even still have so much opportunity as far as payments and point of sale, because they have they just have the most moving parts, so there's the most room for error, and when you really start meeting with a restaurateur about point of sale, they're not utilizing that thing to its most efficient manner, right Like. It's like the point of sale for a restaurant, if done properly, can can become I like always refer to as a central nervous system.
Speaker 2:It's like the whole business can operate off that thing.
Speaker 1:All of your accounting, your scheduling, everything can run off of this, but you're just running credit cards through it like it's a terminal, exactly right.
Speaker 2:So our model kind of became work with less merchants but spend more time with them yeah Right. And then in restaurants you can do that because there's generally more volume, they're more profitable and yeah. So built up a really nice portfolio. And this last year we were acquired by a company called Exactress out of Texas.
Speaker 1:And I've heard only good things about this company. But do you have concerns about because there's many ways to sell, but you can sell, hit some attrition, keep it up, get the most money, or you can sell and basically partner, but you've been the head honcho for the last 20 years. How are you going to navigate that? Yeah, you know time to show up for work.
Speaker 2:Look, that's a great question. I so, um, it's. It's interesting because the last couple years I kind of thought you know what? I do want to sell the company and I started going down this road. And then, once I went down the road, I backed out because almost every company that I talked to they not only saw value in the business but they saw value in me, attached to this business, because they're like you're a key piece of this business, the way that you build it up. We want you to come with us. And then I'm like, no, I'm out of here, right. And so I started to realize but they planted the seed Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the acquisition by Exactress made sense, not only because of, first of all, the company's been around since 2008. They have a core product is a healthcare membership product where they have taken thousands of merchants, hundreds of thousands of customers and basically taken that buying power to get Fortune 500 level benefits and business services for small businesses. It's phenomenal. They're growing like mad. They've got a ton of funding, but the culture that they've built, they've been around, I think I said, since 08, they didn't start taking on money just until these last couple of years, and a lot of people there have been around for years and years, and so it's not an environment where I knew I was going to feel like an employee, where I'm, like you know, checking they're coming into a cubicle and clocking in.
Speaker 2:I very much feel like an entrepreneur within the company which was important to me Because I knew if I was going to have to be an employee, then I'm going to be just completely suffocated and freaked out, or maybe you'd love it, because it sounds like you've never really done it. Well, that's interesting too.
Speaker 1:I'm no longer the guy at the top, so I can make decisions to a certain point, but then Perfect, now it's his fault and he gets all the credit.
Speaker 2:It's a different spin but you know it's actually made me appreciate that other side of things so much, which I would. You know I've been working for myself for so long so to be able to appreciate the employee side of things, which is a totally different level of stress. By the way, I actually think that in some senses it's more stressful than being a business owner. It's just two totally different things.
Speaker 1:My problem with being the owner of a business and I've got a great partner and we to combat what I'm about to say we actually share an office. Even though we've got plenty of spaces, you don't really get feedback at the top. That's right and it's a total. You know, just walk around.
Speaker 1:Everyone says you're doing great, You're doing great, and so we sit there and we just tear each other down all day, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah and pump each other up, because no one also says hey, great job, except for Jeremy says it all the time to me, yeah, so he knows it doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:It's white noise. That's a good point. I think that there's employees are generally afraid to bring bad news right to the boss and to the owners, and I've always told employees over the years I'm like look, you can't hurt my feelings, okay, like you just can't. I need to hear what's bad. I will reward you for telling me what's broken right, tell me what's broken?
Speaker 2:what needs to be fixed. Where are we screwing up? I don't want to hear like, oh, this is the best place I've ever worked and we're selling the best. Like, tell me what's I need to know, what's soft Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause good, good feedback Like yeah, we're already on that trajectory, I need bad to hammer it down. I think we don't have that problem as much because we do a lot of M&A work and if something's going wrong I'm going to know about it pretty quick and litigation it's public. But I guess, yeah, probably everything that goes on in Jeremy's office. We have no idea how much stuff goes wrong down here.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, james, to this point, one of the cool things we did I think it was a year ago we did that anonymous survey, remember for that? I forget what it was. Best Places to Work. So, people were able to give feedback completely anonymously. I think that was kind of cool, cause we did get some constructive feedback on certain things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did get some constructive feedback and then we went and found out who gave it to us.
Speaker 3:And they're no longer with us.
Speaker 2:Wasn't quite as anonymous.
Speaker 3:I just said it's the best place to work ever. 30 times on the survey, that's what I used to hear.
Speaker 1:It's like a Bart Simpson, bart simpson, uh, chalkboard, yeah exactly yeah, and we actually need to fix that, because we didn't win. We won number 42, best place. Gotta pump that up. We need better feedback, probably. Yeah, all right, well, uh, how, uh? So now you're still taking on merchants, you're still hiring isos, that's a great guy to work for. How do people get in touch with you?
Speaker 2:So I have a personal website, paulhadfieldco. Trust me, I've tried to buy paulhadfieldcom. The guy's in England he won't sell it. He won't sell it. But co paulhadfieldco. Or you can email me at phadfield, at execrascom. E-x-e-c-t-r-a-s.
Speaker 1:Maybe you need to go buy paulhadfielduk. That's not a bad idea, barter with him.
Speaker 2:That's not a bad idea.
Speaker 3:That's why James makes the big bucks because of ideas like that.
Speaker 1:I'm sure he already has it All right. Well, thanks for coming on. I appreciate you coming down. I appreciate have to do it again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, good conversation. Thank you for listening this long to the Payments Experts Podcast, a podcast of Global Legal Law Firm. Today we've had with us Paul Hadfield you can find him at paulhadfieldco as well as James Huber, managing partner of the law firm. Thank you, gentlemen. As always, have a great one.
Speaker 1:Thanks, jeremy, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening to this episode of the Payments Experts Podcast, a podcast of Global Legal Law Firm. Visit us online today at globallegallawfirmcom.