The Payments Experts Podcast
Expert payments attorneys discuss the electronic payments industry from a legal perspective.
The Payments Experts Podcast
Why “Set It and Forget It” Is Costing You in Merchant Processing | Guest Rob Hoblit of NMI | PEP068
The rules of payments are changing—often mid-transaction. Are you ready?
In this episode number 68 of The Payments Experts Podcast, we break down the silent killers of merchant profitability: compliance gaps, outdated integrations, and poorly configured gateway flows. Managing partner of Global Legal Law Firm, James Huber, is joined by NMI (https://www.nmi.com/) Chief Revenue Officer, Rob Hoblit, to discuss how payments professionals can future-proof their merchant portfolios in an ever-evolving regulatory and card brand environment.
We cover:
The hidden costs of “set it and forget it” payment stacks
Why Level 2 and Level 3 data optimizations are underutilized (and how to fix that)
The realities of surcharging, dual pricing, and state-by-state compliance
How interoperability—not vendor lock-in—is your best defense against constant rule changes
What it actually takes to maintain high authorization rates while reducing chargebacks and support friction
If you’re an ISO, agent, processor, or fintech pro trying to reduce risk, improve interchange qualification, and stay ahead of card brand changes, this conversation is your playbook.
Listen to the full episode and explore more insights at
https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/podcasts
Subscribe for weekly episodes featuring actionable guidance for navigating high-risk merchant services, surcharging regulations, and the future of payments infrastructure.
**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**
A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm
Nobody in the payment space knows where the business is going. You know, maybe in 2020 everybody thought it was all going to crypto. Jeremy still lives in his parents' basement because he thought it was all going to crypto.
SPEAKER_00:I won't say how much James lost on crypto.
SPEAKER_04:Paper hands. In no order.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to the Payments Experts Podcast. A podcast of global legal offer. We hope you enjoyed this episode.
SPEAKER_02:Nobody in the payment space knows where the business is going. You know, maybe in 2020, everybody thought it was all going to crypto. Jeremy still lives in his parents' face because he thought it was all going to crypto.
SPEAKER_00:I won't say how much games lost I could have to do that.
SPEAKER_04:Paper hands. In no order.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, yeah, no, we don't we don't know where it's going. Where where I mean, where I don't want to say where is payments going, but what what are the biggest threats to people operating in the payments space, merchants, ISOs, agents, NMI? I mean, NMI is so big, nothing scares that. But what do you think?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, look, I I kind of feel a little strange explaining this to you because I I don't need to, you know, point out to you guys that really the shifting regulatory environment is, in my view, that's the biggest thing that people have to keep their eye on, right? And whether that's things like VAMP, the rules around level two and level three, things like that, even just staying up to date with PCI requirements. Um, you know, we're in the process right now of working with a lot of our customers on two-factor authentication to make sure those kind of things are up to speed. And anytime you you have those kind of factors impacting your business, it uh it's it clearly is something that creates a risk. But it it also payments is an interesting industry because there's a lot of folks in the in in who are in payments who view it as a set it and forget it.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:Kind of a thing. And I'm gonna set this up, I'm gonna build up my business, and then you know, it's just gonna be on autopilot. And, you know, in many respects, I'd say it is a lot more on autopilot than a lot of other businesses, but it's not 100% on autopilot. Yeah. You need to be prepared for changes, and I'd say that my take on the kind of regulatory environment, which would be interesting if you guys agree with this, is you're seeing kind of at the federal level, maybe things letting up a little bit, but then you're seeing it being replaced by this state level patchwork that they patchwork, yeah. You gotta manage it by state by state. And then you have you have the card schemes, you have the acquiring banks who kind of have their own kind of set of rules. And look, we're in a mighty we love you know, we're like Daniel Plainview in There Will Be Blood. We love all religions equally. And this is a situation where we have to deal with all these different folks who we're um who we're chatting with uh and working with in in the industry. But as an ISO, as an as a software company that's trying to manage your business, you gotta stay on top of that. And I think we're our our approach at NMI is to offer you tools that can help you with that. Uh and certainly, you know, we try to drive awareness of potential things coming. Um, but I think it takes not only companies like us, but also folks like yourself, actually, as well, who can really get into the details on that. And when somebody does feel like they need help or maybe, you know, need a second opinion or somebody take a look at something, they can they can call somebody and ask that question.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. Uh okay, side note, their NMI is not gonna let you talk about Vamp. Probably. They're not. I'm I'm uh I'm on I'm on cut right now. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Uh I don't know. We've only had one person agree to get on here on Vamp because they don't want to get on Visa's radar about it. Okay, well we talked about it this morning. I mean, like Okay, no, I'm fine if you want it, but I actually would rather talk about level two and level three because we haven't covered that yet. Do you want to go into that? Will they get pissed? That one I don't think they will. Vamp, I I love talking about it, but it's fascinating.
SPEAKER_03:Uh level two, level three. I'm not sure. Let me just do one thing. Slightly less than than date than to be dangerous on that one.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, okay, so maybe we just shouldn't go there. Well, I was gonna just be like, what did you mean by the level two, level three? What do you mean? Okay, let's do that. You brought up level two, level three. What did you mean by that?
SPEAKER_03:So use of level two and level three, you know, I think every if you're watching this show, you probably know what that means, right? It's adding additional fields uh to a transaction in order to take advantage of things like corporate uh corporate card interchange rates that are different than if you're a a consumer. There's a lot of detail here. And you know, I'm a caveman sales guy, so you know, don't take it from me, call an expert. Um but especially the card schemes especially are looking at how people are presenting those transactions and saying, we want you to do it in a specific way, uh, or we're gonna start to um maybe do some things that you might not like. Charge you more, more declines. Exactly, that kind of a thing. So I think on that one, like if that's something that you are taking advantage of, and in particular, if you're in a situation right now where you're using those and you're dealing with declines, I think that would be a situation where I would certainly call and get you know, get some advice there on uh how to deal with that and then whether you need to make some changes. If you're passing these through and you know, not having a problem with it, you know, I can't say whether you will or will not have an issue, uh, but it is something where changes are coming down the pike. And like I said, like this is something that if if your business does do it, uh get get some get some advice there and and and figure out if you need to do something different with the the change and how that's being approached.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you brought up like the biggest threat, you know, to the space and my threat and opportunity at the same time is deregulation, regulation. You know, our firm, we thrive in increased regulation and we really th thrive in decrease regulation. Um and then when it stays status quo, that's where I see people in the payment space kind of starting to get cagey. And then we all start freaking out when the status quo is happening and Visa comes in and says, we got new surcharge rules all of a sudden. And that throws everybody in a in a tizzy. It's almost like the payment space likes the drama because I'm going when surcharge and dual pricing and every stuff came in, everyone's like, What's your opinion? How does this work? And I'm going, this is really simple, guys. I can break it down to three sentences over here and four sentences over here, but I'm getting flown out to you know, North Carolina to, you know, give a presentation on how to do it correctly. And it's a riot because I'm going, who thinks they're doing it correctly? And everybody raises their hand. I'm going, tell me about that. And I'm going, well, that's wrong. You know, and they're going, well, you know, flat, flat 4% on everything. That's fine, even cash. And I'm going, no, that's not. But, anyways, it's it's the payment space, it loves change, it thrives on change, it grows on change. So when you see, you know, things happening that are shaking things up, I'm going, this is where payments really outshines a lot of other industries.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and I think that's a a great point. And this is one where, you know, Go USA. I think like our country has decided to let a lot of that innovation play out. And that has created a ton of value in this space for people who do what we do, but also I think for customers who have a lot of different options, a lot of different ways that they can make payments. I think if you look at a lot of other developed countries in the world, it's fairly directive on here's what you will do, here's what you won't do, and that's that's all I'm gonna say about that, right? And so uh I think uh I think you're right. I think it does thrive on a lot of change, uh new things, uh uh, new things happening, and there will always be something, right? It's not gonna be a situation where we get to, oh, well, we're now done.
SPEAKER_02:Set it and forget it.
SPEAKER_03:We're now done. Where's no more you know, change, like you can just forget it. Like you will always need to keep an eye on that and and and be ready to be flexible, be modular, have choice. That's kind of what you know, what we try to offer.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, you know, that's one of the reasons that you partner with someone like NMI or you partner with somebody like Global Legal Law Firm because you're having people that have their ears to the track, they're seeing what's happening and they know what's coming. They hope they know what's coming, and they think about well, here are the three ways to go. I better talk to those guys so that I can plan my business. When we talk to people coming in and they want our advice on whether it's litigation, contracts, or anything like that. My first question usually, and I get there, you know, I try and because if you ask this question to some people, they're going, huh? What's your exit plan? You try and get there, because they you know, uh, I might exit, like, I'm trying to get out of work at five and get my kids and you know, all this. And I'm going, no, you know, let's let's you try and we massage in there and figure out what these people's values are, what they care about, what really their exit plan is. Everybody says, billion. I want to sell for a billion dollars. And I even okay, that's a pretend number for most of us. Actually, I'm probably gonna win the Powerball tonight, so or whenever it is. So um, but for you know, most people, that's not a real number. It's where do you want to go and let's help you get there? And you know, a company like NMI, and I was excited to meet you, is doing the same thing of let's help you get there. We're operating behind the scenes. Um, you know, sometimes we're out front quite a bit, but uh, let's help you get to where you need to go. And we're doing a lot of the work for you. Chris always says, my partner, he says, you know, these salespeople who are a lot of our listeners, you're really good at selling, but the rest of the stuff, let somebody else do it, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I I would I I would just put it this way you don't necessarily need to have a plan on where you want to be in five years or 10 years. The question you should be asking yourself is if you make a choice, are you comfortable with that being the way things are gonna be five years or 10 years from now? Or do you want to leave your options open? Yeah. Which would, which would, which would you prefer? If you're absolutely positive that working with, you know, this specific set of partners is exactly what you want to do, well then great. And you know, maybe that's but I would say that 100% of our customers, that's not right how they're thinking about it. They're thinking about it like we want to leave, we want to have choice, we want to be able to figure out where we want to be, and that might change, you know, based on uh the way the industry unfolds and the way our business unfolds.
SPEAKER_02:I might want to just go out and do some crimes and you know make money that way. But I like you saying, you know, like you don't have to have your exit plan. My wife for years has been going, you it doesn't work unless you have a plan, you write it down, you execute on it. So I'm like, I've got this plan. Chris and I met on it like seven, eight years ago. And I keep I have a reminder every once in a while to do the meeting. But then I heard Oprah say, I don't have a plan at all. I just execute, go away. And she was talking to somebody on her podcast. Somebody else told me this. It's not like I listen to everything Oprah says. Uh, but she said Stephen Colbert, same thing. I don't have a plan. You execute and you adjust and you you know do the best thing in the moment. And you know, that's why you would, you know, partner with people like NMI or sales pitch global legal law firm.
SPEAKER_03:Crazy make-em-ups. Yes, that's uh I think what Chris were walking. And often does. Yeah, like yeah.
SPEAKER_02:All right. Well, closing words, Rob, you get to shut us down. Anything you want to uh let our avid viewership listeners know about?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think I think just a reflection. So I'm actually not a payments industry like lifer. So I've been in the industry now for this is my fourth year, um, you know, officially as a payments person.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe rest of your lifer, though.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's possible, yes. And I have done payments my entire life. Right. So I've been on the the consumer side. This is really an industry that though where a lot of you know having tech that can talk to other other pieces of that tech stack is really important. And so I think what we're what we're trying to do at NMI is create a platform that obviously we have our tech, and I I talked about kind of the different pieces of it. We have Gateway, we have extensions, we have, you know, MRM, which is the the merchant central piece, we have the the integrated payment solution, but we also integrate with our customers and we try to work interoperate with them. And that's a lot of what we do is figuring out how those things work together. And I contrast that with actually I'm I'm kind of a reform cybersecurity person. So I worked in cyber for like 10 years. And that was an industry where people did say we want things integrated, and then when they had the opportunity to show their revealed preference, they always went with best of breed and picked some point kind of solution. And having been in payments now, uh it it's clear to me that things that work can work with others. That's where a lot of the value is here, folks, is that getting a uh a solution that uh is not uh a closed system, but actually is very open. So, you know, of course I would say that, you know, I you know work at NMI, but I I actually truly believe it. And and if I think about I've worked at companies who have, you know, uh been going after that, okay, we're gonna integrate everything. And it's a challenge. I think uh if you can find somebody you can do it with, there's a lot of value there. So thank you for having me on. And uh, you know, let's I'll see you around the neighborhood, I guess.
SPEAKER_02:Sounds good on the pickleball court. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but make sure you're registered on uh, you know, no non-residents.
SPEAKER_02:And don't get too close to the lake, don't get too close to the swans.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for listening to this episode of the Payments Experts Podcast, a podcast of Global Legal Law Firm. Visit us online today at Global Legalaw.com. Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice. All events or likeness to real people, and events is a coincidence.