From Hurt to Peace: Navigating Forgiveness on Your Own Terms

Oluwatunmise sits down with #mindfulllywithtunmise's recurring co-host Ola. Through personal stories, they explore navigating the complex journey of forgiveness. 

Forgiveness is a complex journey that requires honouring our hurt before healing can truly begin. True liberation comes when we understand that unforgiveness keeps us caged while forgiveness is ultimately an act of self-preservation.

• Peace emerges as the primary emotion associated with genuine forgiveness
• Overcoming hurt often requires years rather than the quick "just forgive" approach
• The initial emotional response to pain takes about 90 seconds, but processing the memory takes much longer
• Forgiveness doesn't require reconciliation - healthy boundaries can coexist with forgiveness
• Self-forgiveness is a crucial first step in the healing journey
• Our worldviews and belief systems significantly impact our capacity to forgive
• Healing isn't a race but a rhythm with natural ebbs and flows

 If today's conversation has touched you, please do not rush past it. Sit with it and, if it feels right, share this episode with someone you love, someone who might need a reminder that healing is a journey they don't have to walk alone.

Transcript

Introduction to Forgiveness Conversation

Speaker 2 1:19

Hey, mindful Partners, it's another episode with me Uluwa Tumishe Ola Dapokuku and Mindluwa Tumishe Oladapokoku unmindfully with Tumishe. When I was rounding off last week's episode, I did say that I was going to have you know who to help explore the beginning of this new season. So how are you new?

Speaker 3 1:45

you know who I thought that I thought I had a response um for that, but no but it's good to be back in the studio yeah, and not virtual no, no, no, no, it's good to be back yeah feeling, the microphone feeling my voice you guys trust me, it's gonna be a very interesting and solid conversation, but you know, when acting or light is in the studio until we start talking is not serious, so apologies is not serious.

Speaker 2 2:37

So apologies, like like I said before, we started the streets, so let's get this started, because we promise some people on your posts that we're going to have this conversation, and you and I saw a video of a family where the matriarch of that family right, uh, lied to her children for 25 years and how people have polarized the man's response about whether it was right for him to withhold forgiveness.

The Complexity of Forgiveness Process

Speaker 2 3:07

Honestly, as a journalist, I want to get into that you know, but as mindful to which I don't want us to, and I even want to get into that polarity, because that's life, there'll be polarization, yeah, um. So I, like I said earlier, I think the post on the question of forgiveness and how it is processed, or not processed, is more quaint for our conversation. So here's how I'm going to start. Of course, you do small question answer, so here's where I'm going to start. When you hear forgiveness, what's the first emotion that surfaces for you in Hawaii? Yes, no, there's no hope is an answer.

Speaker 3 4:00

Peace. You get it.

Speaker 3 4:03

Right peace. And I say that because, rightly put, rightly put, whether we forgive or not, what I see for um, unforgiveness us is, um a cage, which it truly is, whether we admit it or not is is allowing ourselves, um to hold on to the hurt that somebody has done, done, done to us, allowing ourselves to be held by that. That's what I see on forgiveness, as when we come over to forgiveness, I see it as letting go, you know, because of me, really not because of them, but because of me. Um, that's the way I see forgiveness. That's the simplest.

Speaker 3 4:55

I'm making it sound very simplistic, but that's, that's not what it is yeah, because that comes up as oversimplification, to be honest yes, I agree with you, but but the idea is um, just because something, okay, so a brain doctor goes into the surgery and comes out and the person's okay doesn't mean that that surgery was easy or simple right, the neurons, the nerves that they had to deal with, and it didn't mean that that was easy or simple, but they found a way to make that complex process seem to be easy by the fact that this person came out the way they wanted person to come out and not, and sometimes not well, sometimes the same thing with forgiveness.

Speaker 3 5:44

Forgiveness doesn't always turn out, you know, the way we wanted sometimes, which is again I'm going to have to jump the gun here where we talk about um making people forgive, you know, I, I think I used to be there, you know, just forgive and let go. No, when I, maybe when I had um. I can point to two major issues as um, aside from the one I had with my father, because, looking back now, that wasn't any issue compared to that right, because of course I had to live with my father, so that level of unforgiveness could not really exist. It shows up when you don't have that kind of, maybe that level of contact. I don't know.

Speaker 3 6:37

You're sharing your story and the first one I want to talk about. The second one was not recent one was not, so not recent, um, and and I'm talking about it because I I thought that at that time I'd learned how to forgive, because after the first one happened, I got that unforgiveness or well, not having my peace, even though I'd said that forgiving lasted almost seven years. Every time I think of that person, or somebody talks about that person or something happens like I just feel upset okay, so you just feel upset.

Speaker 2 7:12

So so, um forgiveness, to be honest right stares up a myriad of emotions. Yeah, forgiveness does stare up a lot of emotions. Yeah, and, like you said, it is in the oversimplificated yeah but it is just peace.

Speaker 2 7:37

But what I think, just like you said now, that we tell just forgive and let go, when people we tell people forgive and let go, I I don't think I ever was there at that sport, laugh if you want.

False Simplicity of "Just Forgive"

Speaker 2 7:58

But and and you know it comes of when people ask me and like I was here in the studio and she was asked, she was asking me how I could, and I had a couple of people, especially those who know a bit about you know who, to me she is like how, and for me it is I can't help them to carry their load together. Will I process the hurt? Will I process the pain? I will, but holding on to them and I've had like, of course, like you said, our parents will maybe not be able to say you know, but I've had friends who I don't want to say, I don't even want to say I didn't want to say stop, we just had miscommunications or I elevated oh, I, yeah my perceived roles in their lives and there was miscommunication. So it's always or I'm the one will hurt them. Yeah, right, by being mean right right.

Speaker 2 9:05

So, um, when people get to the point where, because I was listening to someone when I was listening to that podcast, it was a, it was that it was someone in the Middle East, very popular couple, the Middle East. They broke up and then she had this interview and on the interview the presenter asks if she forgives. She said no, I forgive nothing. Fast forward and they asked her why doesn't she forgive him? Because she said she now said that because she knows that she's done her best, so anybody will hurt her is because, do you understand?

Speaker 2 9:49

right and I'm listening to that and so the you know and she is from the other faith, because we have to look at it through the letters of faith, yes, religion faith yes, even our, even our indigenous religion is faith and fast forward to Ramadan of that same year, or that was this year, last year, and she's trending again and she's like the first thing that came to my mind. It might not have come to anybody's mind, but the first thing that came to my mind. It might not have come to anybody's mind, but the first that came to my mind was you said you couldn't forgive.

Speaker 3 10:28

hmm so yeah, for good for giving up at that time, or she wasn't the guy already has a second wife.

Speaker 2 10:37

Third religion allows it already has a second wife. But they're true, they have children, see girl the co-parent and she was making a baby. She was telling him I made up because of you, I put myself together because of you, because you were coming. And it goes to show that when we, or science, when science says that the first emotion, it takes 90 seconds, I don't know how true that is, I heard it emotion.

Speaker 1 11:06

It takes 90 seconds, I don't know how true that is.

Speaker 2 11:07

I heard that it takes 90 seconds for us to process any emotion. Whatever you're feeling after that 90 seconds is the memory, right, the memory of that event is what you're either worshiping or holding on to, but to process it, bring processes at 90 seconds. Now there is no one, maybe Jesus or some prophet. I remember a prophet that told people that they should burn out because they called him bold. But there is no one who, I think, can process in 90 seconds and not carry the memory of a pain. So it's now how we navigate or romance this memory that would or could lead to unforgiveness or forgiveness of unforgiveness.

Speaker 2 12:03

Unforgiveness If you stay in that silt for too long or in that suit for too long, you are then carrying. That is my opinion. You're just carrying the person's load and the other person is the one who has character questions. And this is where you know I love him, somebody. I said to he should be, I should be his influencer. Domigo Ruiz's four agreements number two is my favorite and do not take anything personally. So I think that the major question is, while we process, while the brain process that pain in 90 seconds, we do not honor the hurt, the memory, the yeah, the hurt that memory is going to. We're going to have to navigate to get to the point of forgiveness. So do you think that we don't we rush into forgiveness without honoring that hurt?

Speaker 3 13:13

That makes a lot of sense you know, because I'm thinking back to you. Know I told you about two different incidences you know. The first one was where, when I thought I'd learned how to forgive, it took me about. It took me almost seven years. I'm not kidding. The first one was when I thought I'd learned how to forgive. It took me about seven years, I'm not kidding. The first three years I was almost in constant pain.

Speaker 3 13:37

Physical pain. I would remember it and I would be depressed. And it wasn't like we had. It was just a case of I felt I was loyal and the person was disloyal. This person was older than I am and it took me that length of time I served this person and it took me that long, but in that process it was.

Speaker 3 14:01

You know, god, I'm trying to forgive, get this thing out of my mind If I close my eyes and I sit up in my prayer store and eventually I was, I was at a place where I could, I, I saw the person after that and I I felt nothing and I knew that I was free, right, and during that time I had I learned to start saying I forgive you.

Speaker 3 14:24

When anybody does anything to me I don't like, like, I forgive you, I forgive you, even though it was possible that at that moment I hadn't. Yeah, yeah, but because I was using that phrase, I think they didn't allow those hurts to take root, right, because what happened much later, which is the second one, was and it was just this morning I'm on this bible study group and we're talking about esther and then we're talking about um was a private study on book of esther. We go to that place of how we, how we can allow um content resentment. I can't, I don't like this person to build up into it when we don't deal with it that I realized that this second one happened because I stopped saying I forgive you because to your, to your brain, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes you know, because it wasn't like I knew that this person did anything until much later.

Speaker 3 15:26

We had a conversation and this person didn't take accountability for what they had done, and then he hit me.

Speaker 2 15:32

I'm like oh no, and then it took me another one and a half years yes.

Speaker 3 15:38

To fully get to that place where I could say you know what I feel that I've forgotten. How did I know?

Speaker 2 15:45

I said to this person I miss you and I didn't feel any pang I just felt, oh, I couldn't say that and I knew then.

Speaker 3 15:58

That was the point I knew.

Speaker 2 15:59

Okay, so, since we're sharing stories, let me share one, because sometimes, sometimes we mistake speed for strength. We mistake the speed at which we say I forgive you just like you know for strengths um, but with strength is death. And I'll give you an example. Of course, for those who know, I stare for it, but they're there when I say I'm a survivor of sexual molestation. You know at least it's not one person.

Speaker 2 16:31

And it was in a community. It was in a community and before my parents transitioned, I would go to events that had to put all of us together.

Speaker 2 16:49

and I'm on the edge right, I'm on the edge because some of them, like you said, I hadn't taken accountability. One person actually walked into me and tried to hit on me again and my mother was just about two tables away, married with two kids I, that is, I'd be married to kids and I just thought my mom and there to go and she was like I said I have to go, who's going to drive you, that she gets me to drive her. So I had to go. Then my parents they were all there to at my parents funeral. My mother's funeral it was a big shaker because I didn't see anyone. My mother's funeral it was a bit shaky because I didn't see anyone. My father's funeral I was out for war, yeah. Then just this April I was in another forum where all of them were and for the first time, for the first time, I had peace.

Speaker 2 17:46

I sat down. I was seeing everybody. I saw a handful of them and I sat down and I was smiling. I was like, oh, I'm in a better place than these people, and I'm not saying that out of pride.

Speaker 2 18:00

I'm like no, no, and it was not because I had in quotes, because I always say to people when people ask me a question, how are you? Yeah, because I know that. I say to myself it's easy for me to say that I forgive this person. I can't let go because in my head we were all died for.

Speaker 2 18:20

And if this person dies before me and they repent with their last breath, they will get to heaven before me. And they repent with their last breath, they will get to heaven before me. And I'm still here struggling. I'm telling you. That's how I rationalize why I can't let go easily. I can't let go easily.

Speaker 2 18:38

But then the process is in my head was sitting down this April, just just as this last I was in God. My husband was supposed to go with me to that event, but for some reason I knew I don't believe in coincidences for some reason, very, very mundane reason, they couldn't go. So I was the only one who went, and this particular family very, very close to my dad, and so I don't know what, whether because this family was close with us and there was no um, there was no member of that family that messed up with me, whether as friends, or maybe that was what gave me the peace because I could see my friends, like I could see my friends are like oh yeah, those are my friends and we grew up together and all of that, so it was sitting down at that event this April made me think, oh, you really really a better person and and it's, it's.

Honoring the Hurt Before Healing

Speaker 2 19:40

And there was one person they put a call through that normally I would have, because the person never, because I confronted this person and they never, never. In fact, what the person said to me was to me she let it go. Now you know things that we've done.

Speaker 3 21:37

There was no acknowledgement, do you?

Speaker 2 21:39

understand, just let it go. And I'm like the hell you know, but they put a cop through him through drawing that and I'm like, oh whatever whatever, um. So I think that you know we get to the point. What happens is when people saying I have forgiven you, we think the speed of that is strength, but the real strength is sitting with after I have forgiven you and dealing with your emotions.

Speaker 2 22:10

Whether you're going to use faith but they're going to use journaling, whether you're going to use praying and please don't go and you shop or no, you don't you know, because, yeah, these are things that does. There's a point a person can hurt you and the pain that comes from that, just like Hagar, the pain that came from seeing her son that, forgetting that she was what I, that was rude to her mistress but do you get it?

Speaker 2 22:47

The pain that comes from that is what we must come to acknowledge. And it takes me back to the story, the video that started this. And then, when Yalavanzad said to the, the man you don't have to forgive, which is the born of contention here you don't have to forgive, I'm like, yeah, it's not that inyala was telling him not to forgive. What he was saying she was saying to him is process it plus.

Speaker 3 23:17

The lady was, I think it was missing was now yes I don't know if that would have made sense to people that didn't like yeah, but I think if that you you don't have to forgive now it would have changed the con. I I think it would have changed the context because it would have meant that you know what. Sit down with what it is that you said, think about it, allow it to simmer. I'd be upset, be angry, but put yourself in a time, time space to allow this not to become toxic to you. Sit down with it, think about it, but don't let it be for you, because that that that you don't have to forgive it seems like full stop Rather than comma. Do you understand?

Speaker 2 24:05

But, man, there's a lot to process there. There's a lot 25 years. Yes, three girls, three girls. That middle child was like mama, you do better, you better. You know, because that middle child had the agency to trust her father. Imagine, and then she comes back with you should have fought for the girls. They haven't fought for her.

Speaker 3 24:34

You know what I said she's an evil, wicked person.

Speaker 2 24:39

Against the lie that you have. How was he supposed to defend himself? She's an evil, wicked person, just against the lie that you have. How, how was he supposed to defend himself? So when, in that kind of situation? Because I know these days, but again.

Speaker 3 24:51

you should talk. How did she get there there? How would you allow resentment become contempt that you now hate? Get to the point.

Speaker 2 25:08

You don't hate so muchex King's. Healing is the new high, preparation for this conversation, and there was a story. Of course we are you and I read into many right now, but I don't think I've told you about. Healing is the New High by Vex King and there was a story in there. A girl, perfect family. They brought them up well, no wahala, like good, fine, like good upbringing. And then one night she went down and she's violently raped hmm, and then she gets back home.

Speaker 2 25:49

She just stays on. She didn't know what to do hmm, there was too much good in her, like that evil was not something that she could shed experience you know, and and she stayed under the blanket and um she told her parents and because the parents also didn't know how to deal with it, and you know, I know what that means. When that story came up, so she, she, so they kept telling her you have to get back out there.

Speaker 2 26:23

You have to get back out there you have to get involved. Yeah, you know you know that evil is always. You can't stay inside all the time. Of course she did go back out, but she said that, ruining with energies that were against the energies with which she was brought up with. You understand, there was rebellion, basically until and she went into drugs.

Speaker 2 26:46

She went to, just to get an attempt, get her parents attention that, look, I'm dying here. Eventually she got a therapist and all that. Of course, we all know that healing is not a destination. It's, trust me, it is a way of life.

Speaker 1 27:01

It is not destination it's a life journey, it's like it's deeper than a life journey.

Speaker 2 27:07

But when something like that, like that video happened, where there are children involved, where there's conditioning, where there's, where do we begin then?

Speaker 3 27:23

You know, I'm just thinking about the man and again I'm thinking about his personality, right, I think, as the laid back, quiet kind of person. And she's the choleric, she wanted a fight, yeah.

Forgiveness Without Reconciliation

Speaker 3 27:37

She, you know, I don't know, some people don't like peace, no, but I think that because even just that few minutes showed how they would be in the house, she would want to wear the pants right and the man would be just calm down. Because how can you say to somebody you've accused for 25 years that why didn't you fight? I wish I could stretch my hands and give her a slap like how? Like you've been caught in the act. You've been, you've just been caught with that name. They asked you two questions on the line detector, line detector, and you were.

Speaker 3 28:20

You were caught. You were, there was a court and you're still there saying why. You know, I I was stuck at that. Why didn't you fight for a while? Because up till now I still don't know where that. Why didn't you fight? Come?

Speaker 2 28:35

from. So let's go back to the comment on your post. Um, when, uh, when I said, um, I think a friend of yours said it's okay to forgive what it's not okay, it's not a lot of person process, and I said, I agree, we shouldn't got defied and, um, we shouldn't got to fight. We shouldn't?

Speaker 3 29:00

you don't know what I was going to remember when I saw her comment what was going to happen? I was going to do it, but the initial comment threw me off. The initial comment threw me off because, for me, what I'd seen was not where she was coming from. She was coming from a, a I don't want to jesus kind of from shop, just forgive she was coming from. That first sentence sounded like just forgive, just and and I know that sin I didn't I didn't watch that video, no I didn't, I didn't, I knew I was, I knew I'd.

Speaker 3 29:40

And if she had started with the last sentence? It would have made a lot of sense. But you know, I typed it though. I typed it, I typed it, I just cancelled. I'm like what would. Jesus do?

Speaker 2 29:54

What would Jesus do? So it's imperative to say here, as we continue this conversation, that healing demands expression, not suppression, and I know there's four ways. Yeah, even if you're a non-confrontational person like me, yes, believe it or not, everybody listening my voice sounds like it. So just, I'm extremely non-confrontational.

Speaker 3 30:17

Until they push you to do well, yes, until.

Speaker 2 30:20

I get to the wall.

Speaker 3 30:23

But I would rather not yeah.

Speaker 2 30:25

I would and I know that it because because of that I would write more. And the motion that I cannot write somebody is something hurt me and I cannot write about my journal or I cannot make a post about it or do something about it. Then I mean the deep, then that makes me stop and say, okay, what's going on here? What is this, you know? What is this here to teach?

Speaker 3 30:55

you. This thing you're saying is what we have to deal with in that process of going from the hurt to forgiveness.

Speaker 3 31:06

If we don't ask ourselves why did this thing hit me this badly? To find the root, because there's always these things just don't happen. There's something that has been sown that is now maybe an Iroko tree or a bamboo. They need to find. How did it get into your life? Where did it start from, I think. What did you allow Exactly? Until we get to that place, in that journey, that process of healing Cannot begin.

Speaker 2 31:35

And this leads me to this In the process of healing, when you think somebody or you perceive somebody has offended you, forgive yourself first. You have to if you don't forgive yourself first because you think that you allow or you know that you allow this thing to go on and on and then, like you said, until they push you to the wall you have to get a point when you where you forgive yourself first.

Speaker 2 32:07

It's see if I'm going to say what forgiveness is. It's the ultimate self-preservation to me, because for me to say I've, I don't even know like and I'm not trying to be spiritual about this thing like it's too much. Lord, like my mama, my mom, my mom, there was something that happened towards the end of her life and we had put a call through to someone and I was so upset the way. And then she turned to me and she said you have a right to be upset, but I was still she. It's his load, it's his question, don't help him answer it. Probably one of the no. She said a lot of things towards the end of her life, but that particular one, it hit me in such a way that okay.

Speaker 2 33:16

So now imagine me finding Domega Ruiz and the four agreements and exactly what my mom said. Anyway, it never back me me finding the mega Ruiz and the four agreements in exactly what my mom's everything about me. So I had to get to the point where I forgave myself truly, truly and truly, and I can. When somebody says this is like where were you when I was good, to be honest when somebody says ah, don't you, is he little sad stories that you have in my head, like we were was a teenager.

Speaker 2 33:43

When I was a young adult, when I was a child, when I was going through this, you were not there. You didn't know how, you don't know the agency that I had to tap into right. But that statement, that statement that my mother made, changed everything for me, every me, my bad be, ah okay. For those who don't understand Yoruba, it's Lord, don't carry it on their behalf.

Speaker 3 34:15

I was going to say something, but this ties into it. Everything we do in life requires everything that gets us from one point to a higher point in life requires reflection. Reflection is mostly mixed with our beliefs. Reflection is this is what happened to me oh my God, yoruba is deep and then you're coming to a place where you have a belief system Right, for example, this is a belief, it's a belief system, right and you're not coming from a place of somebody has hurt you and you're mixing it with this belief system that says to you this is not your problem, this is that person's problem.

Speaker 3 35:22

it allows you to have a different perspective to someone who doesn't have that belief system, to somebody who thinks they hurt me, I allowed them to hurt me, just and I was thinking about it when they're like yes, most of the outcomes of our lives is based on our memories, like it's past event, right, but if we develop and usually there's nothing we can do about that usually but if we develop the right kind of belief system, it allows us to be more comfortable, right, with a lot of the things that has happened to us in the past. Right, allows us to, allows us a different passage of the processing right into a much higher, higher how do I describe it?

Speaker 3 37:18

a much higher being of who we currently are.

Building Healthy Boundaries After Forgiveness

Speaker 2 37:24

See, I think that we'll go to boundaries and forgive, because people one thing that comes up, especially when people come to my coaching table, is can forgiveness happen without reconciliation and boundaries and all that? We'll get that in a moment done without reconciliation and boundaries and all that We'll get that today. But I think that, because forgiving yourself as a person is hard, it's probably why forgiving others is also hard, if you can look at yourself and truly look at yourself and say that, oh, yes, I love this, but that was how much I knew at the time and if I had known better, I probably would have done better and then move on from there. But we get stuck in that place of oh, I should have done better, yes, you should have, but did you know to do better? No, you didn't, no, you didn't. And this comes to it's like you're not taking accountability for your actions when people, even in relationships, they saw all the red flags.

Speaker 2 38:43

You know, I don't even know what red flags are, but the thing is right. So there has to be some red flags in any relationship right, yeah there has to be some red flags, because, because, if it is perfect, then something is wrong.

Speaker 3 39:02

Everybody has red flags.

Speaker 2 39:04

Everybody has. You don't know the red flag that you are flagging and he doesn't know the red flag you are flagging to him and he doesn't know the red flag. You know TBT. It is getting to the point of understanding that how much of this person's TB can come and join my theory hmm, how much of this person's good is going to make my bad?

Speaker 2 39:29

but, how much of this person's hat is going to make his good, but chips that? So these are the questions that I never want to do there. So do you think we can forgive and still maintain boundaries?

Speaker 3 39:45

Yeah. If in fact you said, forgiveness cannot happen without reconciliation, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 39:55

Okay If forgiveness Reconciliation with self, reconciliation with the other person.

Speaker 3 40:01

No, no, no. You don't reconcile with self. How can forgiveness happen? Again? It's not. Oh, I wish that. So what I tell myself now, even when I do what I shouldn't do, is I did it Okay.

Speaker 2 40:16

So what's going to happen? Are you going to die? I did it, I did it. I Are you going to die.

Speaker 3 40:20

I did it. I did it. I said to myself, like, oh, I did that. Okay, we move on, I'm not going to, I'm not going to Take the lesson and just move. And that's part of it doesn't mean that I'm I'm being responsible, because it doesn't mean that I won't do it again, but it just means that that particular time I'm not going to kill myself. I'm going to kill myself. I'm going to take the lessons, begin to look for how to improve, get better.

Speaker 3 40:49

I think you know so when you say yes, I believe that we can forgive and creep, in fact, if there's. I was telling my mom recently I'm like, and she knows everybody. She just complained. I said I don't know. My only is I don't know, everybody's fine. No, everybody will be fine. No, I can't even why. Because I moved and the funny thing is that I'm very comfortable there. I used to be that kind of person that I used to worry a lot about people. Why? Why people like this? Why people that you trust, people that you expect to be there for you? Now I'm very comfortable. You're not being there. No, the level of peace that I have achieved I've attained by just not having that expectation of you.

Speaker 2 41:39

Oh, you see this expectation you were saying to me. I was saying it in one episode no, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 41:44

We should have you have it. See, that's an expectation, I will have an expectation of you. It will just not be like if I'm, if I'm in friendship with you, I expect that it's reciprocated oh, no, no, no, no, you can't be, no, you can't be my friend.

Speaker 3 41:58

What kind of friendship is that? There are no levels of expectation. No, let's not even go there, oh, my goodness. Let me go back to forgiveness. So, um, yeah, we can, because, again, like I I said, peace is like uncaging yourself, like forgiveness is like uncaging yourself. So what you can do is, rather than have the cage around you, you just have boundaries with whoever that is. I'm okay, we're good.

Speaker 2 42:27

Oh, hello, hi, but let it be, we're just we're actually fine, I hope, but you know there's a level of of availability that'll not be available.

Speaker 3 42:42

That's it, and there's space. And that's good, we should be comfortable, see, we should be comfortable with the fact that people that used to be in our inner space are no longer even in the outer court.

Speaker 2 42:57

I we should. What manner of violence is this? No, no, but that's the truth. I don't. We should, I'm, I'm. What manner of violence is this?

Speaker 3 43:02

but that's the truth. I I don't believe that I'm in all the inner cults of people. Oh, definitely that I used to be, definitely, yeah, so why should I be upset that somebody? Why should anybody be upset with me that they used to be close to me. They're no longer close to me.

Speaker 2 43:18

Yeah, problem 10 year at least we're on the same page with that. Oh, my goodness. So this is how I'm going to. Before I do the call to action, what will be your final not final words? I'm so, you're right, but you're not last words either. How would you tie this up? Yeah, how would you tie this conversation?

Speaker 3 43:42

oh god, I'm so, you're back, yeah so when to me she said we should do this thing in forgiveness, and like I still said to her when I got into the studio, they're just, they're just topics that we touch but we can't, really, we can't finish because we, because you think that you understand forgiveness, until you see somebody who understands forgiveness, somebody who, so I would think I understand forgiveness and I talked to to michelle, and then I know that I don't understand.

Speaker 3 44:17

I really don't understand forgiveness, because you having conversations with your parents and then there's I saw a video of someone who killed somebody's brother and then the brother said I forgive you and then asked to forgive, please, please, I've forgiven you, but now I want to hug you. Do you realize that forgiveness is in levels?

Speaker 3 44:45

Maybe your being born again is not born again. No, so that's why I said it's a belief system. That person's belief system must definitely be stronger in terms of how they see and perceive life. You know, and that's how I think. So my, my partner words would be um, our world view is not the only view. Yeah, and doesn't necessarily mean it's the best view. Yes, the best thing we can do for yourself, for ourself, is to develop a belief system that is valuable, that is worthy of, of existing right, that allows us to process things holistically rather than from just one one less.

Speaker 2 45:26

Yeah, all right, my closing reflection I found the word because I was the last one. My closing reflection will be that forgiveness isn't about rushing past the pain. Um, the last episode I said something about you do not walk around the thing. You do not get your heal when you tiptoe around the pain, but when you walk through it. It's about giving ourselves permission to feel, to heal and to free our hearts when they're truly ready.

Speaker 1 45:59

Healing is not a race it's a rhythm, it's a dance there are times they are going to be they're going to feel like and there are times you know it's a dance- it's a lifelong thing.

Speaker 2 46:14

Trust your own pace because somebody else is going to do something to you that reminds you of that thing. Yes, so you're good. Yes, and then yes, hence the stop. Breathe, notice, reflect, respond and resolve of living mindfully, like in this past month.

Closing Reflections on Personal Healing

Speaker 2 46:32

I have learned to live by that all over again because at some point I did forget so. Thank you for listening. If today's conversation has said something to you, please do not rush past it. Sit with it and, if it feels right, share this episode with someone you love, someone who might need a reminder that healing is a journey they don't have to walk alone. Yeah.

Speaker 2 47:02

Love yourself, Love your neighbour, love your country. Above all of this, love God. He is the essence of your being. Follow us on all socials. I am Uluwatsumishi Ola dapu kuku, and you know who is.

Speaker 3 47:17

Ola.

Speaker 2 47:20

Until next week.