Masculinity Unmasked: How Men Navigate Vulnerability & Self-Worth

What does it really mean to "show up" as a man in today's world? In this vulnerable, unfiltered conversation for Men's Mental Health Month, four men break down the walls of traditional masculinity to explore what happens when societal expectations clash with personal boundaries.

The dialogue begins with a seemingly simple question about showing up to commitments, but quickly evolves into a profound exploration of how men navigate the complex territory between obligation and self-preservation. "I don't do above and beyond any longer," one participant reveals, describing his shift from constant people-pleasing to measured engagement.

As the conversation deepens, the men share their personal journeys toward establishing what one calls an "impact level ratio" – weighing the cost of their emotional labor against the potential benefits. They discuss the painful process of recognizing toxic relationships, sometimes decades after hurtful words were spoken, and the challenge of setting boundaries with people who've come to expect constant availability.

Particularly moving is their collective realization that many men are carrying unspoken regrets about times they prioritized others' needs over their own wellbeing. "I didn't need to try so hard at life," one reflects, thinking back on years spent trying to meet expectations that nobody had actually verbalized.

Whether you're struggling with people-pleasing tendencies, wondering how to set healthier boundaries, or simply curious about how other men navigate the garden of their inner lives, this episode offers raw insights and practical wisdom. By the conversation's end, each participant shares what they're intentionally cultivating in their lives and what patterns they're working to uproot.

Listen now to this powerful exploration of masculine vulnerability, and consider what you might need to plant—or uproot—in your own life.

Transcript

Introduction to Men's Mental Health

Speaker 1 1:14

Hello Mindful Partners, how are you doing today? Of course you know that is code for. Have you checked in with yourself today? All right, moving forward. I promised in the last episode the one we talked about consistency and being fluid that I would have a conversation on mindfully with Sumishe to reflect June as men's mental health month, and today, I'm glad to say, I present to you that conversation. It was, of course, anchored by Ola and three other men, and they share their perspectives on how they connect with their masculinity in the phase of social conditioning. So enjoy this conversation.

Defining What Showing Up Means

Speaker 2 2:13

All right, this is Ola, and I'm here to be your host for this episode of Mindfully Ways to Mache with Tumashe. This is the reason it's been. It's been months, really June, yeah and so we're taking this time out to just have conversations with just men, right? I'm hoping that it's not too hard. You know how guys can be when guys talk. I'm just hoping it's going to be a bit, but there's no prep here. Nobody's prepping anybody. So whatever it is you hear is how it's going down. I have. My name is Adewale Oluwaparapu right and Corey.

Speaker 4 3:06

Deyamukbaluye and I'm Olubunmi Kuku.

Speaker 2 3:11

Why did you put the and in front of your name and Olubunmi Oladapokuku? Alright, of course I'm Ola and it's good to be here, alright, so I'm going to start with something like well, during christmas, we're talking about what the garden within is. Uh, okay, so that's, that's um cultivating the garden within when I ask I'm like especially, why are we doing this? Okay, just me. I like like because I know this can be a lot for men.

Speaker 5 3:46

Men do usually talk about what it is and going on inside, but this is where i't want to do it, even when you're tired, even when you don't want to do it, but you're still there. So I think that's what showing up for me. For me, I think that's what showing up means when you're tired, when you don't want to do it, but you have a commitment to meet or deliver, even when you don't want to even be there sometimes, because there are some cases where you don't want to even be there, but commitments will not allow you back down. So I think that's what showing up is.

Speaker 2 4:45

So what would showing up look like for you?

Speaker 3 4:53

Well, I think for me, showing up is exactly like I said trust me there, do the needful and do what is expected and what is expected and not, well, I don't know, I don't do above and beyond any longer.

Speaker 2 5:07

I don't do that any longer. I just show up. Is what is expected? Meet everything and that's about it. Okay, what would it look like for you?

Speaker 4 5:20

I think for me it's gonna be more of doing what you have to do part-time and doing it as much as best as you can. I say as best as you can because the best today might be different from best tomorrow.

Speaker 2 5:56

Okay, good, okay. So this question may seem very without borders because you're a man now, so, as you've been conditioned, the idea is for you to show up, show up, right. But what we're coming into is how, even though, as a man, how?

Speaker 2 6:14

like, like, let me say it is part-time, but how, how often or how do you exert yourself in that part-time? Because if you put show up, that's that's the first thing you say show up. You forget about the pattern. Because when it comes, when push comes to shove right, you say you don't do above and beyond. You will forget, like the above and beyond, the shop is what comes up first for you. So how do you, how do you I know we're having this conversation, you're able to be logical about, about the responses, but I'm saying in terms of life happening to you, right? How does, how does it feel like showing up? I know we've given answers, but does answers feel very, very mannish? But I'm saying in the in, the in, in a so a common work? It's a journey from where we used to be to where we're going to, right here, where we are now compared to where we used to be. How is this okay? So let me, let me put it this way how does showing up feel differently now than used to be?

Changing Perspectives on Manhood

Speaker 5 7:39

okay so. I think last week was my birthday and I didn't see the need to what's that English now I didn't see the need to make so much noise.

Speaker 5 7:50

I guess I'm getting older. I guess I'm getting older, and so I didn't see the need to make so much noise. I didn't tell them in my office that it was my birthday, so they didn't post on my company, cug. I didn't tell them in my church group that it was my birthday, so they didn't post it and all of that. But persons that watched, saw my Facebook, said all of that, and so that made me conclude one thing. And, as I was saying, it doesn't go, it doesn't want to do, it doesn't do above and beyond any longer.

Speaker 5 8:20

I remember telling myself that day that I would not do podos. I would myself, that day that I would not do produce. I will not do seas for people that do produce. I don't know if you understand what I mean. So I will not do seas, oceans, for people that do produce. And so what I do now is, to the best of my ability, I, I, I won't do, I won't do it. My father has a saying that says don't displease yourself to please others. So I will not show up. If it's not going to benefit me, I will not. I will not feel that's pleasure to say okay, they might say something if I don't show, if I don't do this, they might say something if I do it's not transactional isn't it not transactional?

Speaker 5 9:05

I'm not saying you have to do something for me to do something for you, but I'm just going towhat I'm saying is, if it does not matter in the next one year, sorry, no, I'm not going to show up like that.

Speaker 2 9:18

Okay, so I'm going to change the question. What kind of man would you say you're becoming?

Speaker 3 9:29

is that for me what?

Speaker 2 9:31

kind of man would you say you're becoming?

Speaker 3 9:32

yeah, that's, that's, that's um, I don't. I think that's a big question that requires how wise I mean what kind of man? As in then, when you say what kind of man, then you are measuring it against I'm not measuring it against anything, it's just a statement.

Speaker 2 9:47

Yeah, the one that is measuring it to your mind well, I'm the best version I can be.

Speaker 3 9:53

I'm trying to become a better man every time and I don't know what the parameters for becoming better is.

Speaker 2 9:58

You can give us a parameter so in terms, I believe that everyone wants to become better. I believe so Absolutely.

Speaker 5 10:08

If there's anything that worries me is that am I better?

Speaker 2 10:12

Am I impacted? No, I'm not impacted as far. Am I better now than I was even last week?

Speaker 1 10:19

You know because when I look at my life, I'm like are you any different from the way you've been?

Speaker 2 10:24

So it's not in terms of any other person, but in terms of yourself. How far have you come from where you've come from to? This is the kind of person I really want to be I'm not there. Yet I want to be the kind of father that does this. I want to be the guy. I want to be the kind of son that is able to say have a conversation with my mother. That is not triggering.

Speaker 1 10:49

Well, I can't be a son any longer.

Speaker 2 10:54

But your father. But yes, so that.

Speaker 4 10:58

But you know in all fairness basically what you are saying is there is still a bar that you are comparing yourself with. It's just that matter of what is that bar?

Speaker 2 11:14

That's the question. There's always a bar, except you have died. If you have died, there's nothing to compare to look forward to anymore. But as long as you're still alive, you're looking forward to your children's next birthdays weddings. So you still look up to. There's still something ahead of you to look up to anymore, but as long as you're still alive, you're looking forward to your children's next birthdays weddings. So you still look up. There's still something ahead of you to look up. So, in terms of where you've come from okay, right, and where you want to be, where you expect to be, I'm not even talking about material things now.

Setting Boundaries and Self-Worth

Speaker 2 11:40

I'm talking about you as a person, in terms of maybe your personal, personal, your thoughts. Maybe you want to be less so. I want to be less triggered by what people say. I mean, I'm a word person and I'm just. It's just crazy that I'm just realizing that things have been said to me over 30 years ago. I can just remember them and they pissed me off again, and I'm not joking. I'm not joking. They just pissed me off again and I've never thought that, you know, I would be that kind of person. But because of my journey in self development, in emotional intelligence, a lot of things that I thought had dissipated and now begin to surface and I'm like, oh, my goodness, why am I feeling like that? Oh, this is it. I didn't deal with them then. I just I just buried them, they didn't go. So now that I'm doing all the dredging and I'm trying to make life more beautiful, they're coming to the surface and I'm having to deal with. Those are the questions that I'm, those are the kind of questions I think for me.

Speaker 5 12:44

I think I'm becoming someone that people will remember. Growing up, I used to battle with um not being seen, so I have a mother. I had a mother she's lit now. I had a mother who doesn't believe in expressing yourself.

Speaker 5 13:02

So uh, she would say, if you do this, your younger ones will copy you and do it right, so that's one of the things that made me go into journalism, go into poetry and all that, because if I can't say anything, I have to put it down somewhere or my mind would explode right. And so I was having a conversation with okay, I was supposed to be at an event yesterday and I put on my status and say the urge to wear all black to this all white party is so high. And a friend of mine said you have always caused a stir anywhere you enter. I don't know how you're doing it, but you always cause a stir. That would never have been me 10 years ago. Maybe some 10 years ago it wouldn't have been me because I didn't believe I should say something, I should speak, I should react. The way I was brought up was to keep quiet, don't say anything. Uh, I see I have an aunt that still reminds me that you don't have to talk too much.

Speaker 2 14:09

Right.

Speaker 5 14:10

You are a man, so even when you are angry, even when things are, but now, with the things that I've learned, mixing with certain people, for example, tumishe, for example, has taught me that I don't have to repress those things or else I'll go crazy, right. And so I think I'm becoming that person that would be remembered, probably not from talking too much, probably from the things that I'm doing, from the things that I will do, or probably from the way like my friend said, the way you carry yourself.

Speaker 2 14:48

What does that mean to you?

Speaker 5 14:52

I guess. So one of the things Hold on, hold on.

Speaker 2 14:56

So I ask some questions sometimes and people want to answer them immediately and I know you're not giving me the correct answer. Okay, why?

Speaker 5 15:03

Because I've thought about it.

Speaker 2 15:04

Not thought about your answer, but I've thought about the question and if you just give me an answer just because you heard the question, you're most likely not going to give me the answer, so just think about it and we'll come back to you. So what kind of man? Please don't be diplomatic.

Speaker 1 15:24

That's my first answer.

Speaker 3 15:25

My first answer to that now is that that's the kind of person that I've become now. Is that that's the kind of person that I've become now? I really it's not about carrying a rose, ox, as God you know I've no longer that kind of person that wants to have everybody as his friend, or, please, everybody. I've reached the point now right where I think age does that to you.

Speaker 2 15:49

Yeah, yes, and apart from age.

Speaker 3 15:51

You know the other commitments both at work and at home. But I'm a kind of person that measures the impact level ratio.

Speaker 4 16:03

You know.

Speaker 3 16:03

So how much work is done by who, and what is the impact of that? Right, so, and it may end up looking as if it's all calculated. However, I have come to the point that the kind of person I am now is this If the people that gave birth to me, if they only took care of the children they gave birth to, they will still be alive, because everyone they took care of the children they gave birth to, they would still be alive, because everyone they took care of their children. Those ones have taken their parents abroad now, right, yeah, so if their own parents are taking care of them.

Speaker 3 16:45

Maybe they will have died too, who knows? So I've reached a point. Yeah, so we have to measure all these things by. You know. To me she said we live backward and understand forward, or whatever the case may be. So, looking back at those now, even this morning I was having a conversation with my wife and somebody is calling me now and asking if I only add this money. I said, well, I'm not going to advise you on that. You're a wise woman, figure it out.

Speaker 1 17:11

But me, it is a matter of impact level ratio.

Speaker 3 17:16

All right If it's going to be detrimental to my mental health and well-being. That's the end of Solomon Grundy. You know, at Muson Centre, where I work, I've arranged all the things I do to be only on Monday and Tuesday so that I can have my Tuesday and Wednesday. So Monday, thursday, the things I do to be only on Monday and Tuesday. So, like I have my Tuesday and Wednesday, so Monday, thursday, friday, I wake up whenever I want to wake up for my own. Yes, of course that means that finances will cut down, will cut down, but I've reached a point where it could come. You know, it's a matter of impact level ratio and I'm just going and I'm going and that's it.

Speaker 3 19:27

I went to the estate meeting today simply because I was grumbled about something. They I get triggered. Also, I go from, I go back from work. Last week my neighbor caught my trees because it was leaves were falling to this compound. My number reaction was one one banding it. The next day I called my gardener yeah, prune it a bit more. So that let me feel like I'm the one that prune this.

Speaker 3 19:53

So that's where I am at the moment, like no time.

Speaker 2 19:57

Right, right, Okay so.

Speaker 4 20:02

Okay, so what's the question?

Speaker 1 20:05

Don't worry, I'll ask you again.

Speaker 2 20:07

I'll repeat myself.

Outgrowing Toxic Friendships

Speaker 4 20:15

What kind of man are you learning to become? Okay, I think I'm just learning to be the kind of guy that has an impact Impact on where I am right now and impact after, the reason being that it's a lot easier, if you look at it from a man has to provide. It's a lot easier for you to keep giving, it's a lot easier for you to keep being there for everybody, but then what about being there for everybody? But then what about being there for yourself? It's a lot easier for you to do things for people, but then what happens to being yourself, right? So for me, it's more about impact in sense that make sure you're doing things for yourself, you're doing things for people around you, right? And make sure whatever it is that you're doing is impactful and makes sense, right? There's really no need doing something that doesn't make sense at the end of the day. And you now start wondering why why?

Speaker 2 21:19

why I think what you have done was you have brought somebody much younger, because it seems that all the all the responses are in the area of impact.

Speaker 4 21:30

But if life shows you, but seriously, if life shows you man.

Speaker 5 21:36

So when you say there are lines of impact.

Speaker 4 21:39

I suddenly realized that the only thing that we have left.

Speaker 5 21:44

My father will say something to me and I'm saying this because we talk a lot- like me and my dad is late now so, of course, six years, you will say something, it says it in Europe, but that, if your father, the only thing that you're remembered by is when you leave this world is your action, and that action would now remain when you are gone and with your children. So I think that everything that we should do gender aside now should be about impact because, it's if.

Speaker 5 22:24

If you know how soon people forget about people, you would know that the only thing that you should really does that? No, no mean that you're leaving for people okay, so my mother had this policy of leaving how I want to live, how we now impact you, but I will do what I think so you or the receiver.

Speaker 2 22:52

The receiver okay, so it can. It can be something you think is impactful and doesn't impact them.

Speaker 5 22:58

It's just as long as it was good for you, not good for me. As long as I am what's that? English, I don't want to use the word.

Speaker 2 23:06

I mean conscious, in terms of I feel like, as long as I am what I don't want to use the word. I mean I feel like as long as the action that you took was good for you.

Speaker 3 23:21

I've taught lessons that I've learned very well and I've had the Ministry of Education come and say it's a bad lesson, you all right. And then I have the Ministry of Education from England come and say it's a good lesson, right, outstanding lesson. So that now begins to tell you that it's not about doing you. You don't want to do you and isolate yourself Right, and at the same don't want to do you and isolate yourself Right and at the same time you want to insulate yourself. You know from. You know we are saying all of this and whether you want to say we should bring a younger person or not, but I could Just to hear the perspective of someone who's not even busy.

Speaker 3 24:02

My son is going to be 10, yeah, and he's already telling me I'm going to learn barbecue so that I can deliver to people, so that I can have some money to buy provider. It's just that. It's just give an example. Everybody here has been told about hell. Hath no fury like a human scorned, and everybody in the world knows about that. But the feeling of being scorned is not is for every human, not for the human, and that is why when a man that has been scorned reacts, all right, nobody is prepared for it you know so and because of that, every man has been told.

Speaker 3 24:54

You know that. You know you can do this. You can do that, you know. So I understand. When we say impact, the impact from my own point of view is this I would check it without being without how I put it. I will look at what it is in it for me and for the person and if it's a good decision, I'll go by it now if it's not, it doesn't impact you.

Speaker 1 25:16

The way you want, you expect it then you're also a human being.

Speaker 3 25:21

Do it yourself you get my point. You also a human being, do it yourself. So I mean, my boss will say I don't know why you come, you leave your. Are they chasing you at home? Why did you get to work at seven? I said, well, that's your own.

Speaker 1 25:36

So that I can leave at two.

Speaker 3 25:38

You come at 11, but you cannot go to keep me here till six because you got here at 11. I've put in my hours. I'm going if it's if what I'm doing doesn't, it doesn't really, I don't have to greet you yes, so the impact for me if you want to perpetrate your existence after you've? Left and, as a musician, just write albums. Now, people keep on dying after you die, you know. But if you keep on going about, what will people say about me after I have?

Speaker 3 26:07

left the tendency of dying young is very, very high. I agree with you. Yeah, it's very very high.

Speaker 2 26:15

I really don't care what people would think.

Speaker 4 26:19

I agree with you. I'm a little burnt out, so the thing is.

Speaker 5 26:26

I think I took that from my mom she that woman doesn't care what people will say, she just do it.

Speaker 1 26:35

So, like he said, you now determine if that's impactful, because perception matters.

Speaker 5 26:40

So if I say I'm doing this to impact you and you say I'm not doing enough, but that's the best that I can do, I'm doing this to impact you and you say I'm not doing enough but that's the best that I can do.

Speaker 3 26:55

It's got to the point where so you got to the point where all of me and the feeding of the children in the school is now 300 000 there, right, why can't you not cook for them to take to school? I don't want to do it well at this point in time I was like I did not say anything more than that and I know I give when the receipt for school fees came minus 300.

Speaker 3 27:18

They've not called me in the school not to ask me why did you know I'm not eating in? School or why they are eating in school, or why they are eating in school, I did not even bother. It's not part of what I want to do. And that's the end of Solomon Grundy.

Speaker 2 27:28

You know so you come to realize you know and I think also no, I'm not going to allow you to go there. I need to know at what point did this mindset of peace like I just want peace, I don't want trouble, Even to some people that be a, I want trouble, I don't want peace. It depends on how you look at it right. For me it looks like I just don't want any kind of stress. When did this?

Speaker 3 27:57

come. I think mine came. It started from the person of my mom. He was building up and building up. Then it culminated in the passion of my dad. Okay, you know, then I even I spent two weeks at one place, one time, like that, you know, and that was because I was keen on getting the students in the school to behave well at all times. So I had gone and given them some very stern warning. The stern warning ended sending me off to a rehab home. The children eventually got expelled later, but I lost the job, I lost everything. Then I said, you know, what eventually.

Speaker 3 28:45

All these people are trying to make their life better some people's children anyways. Alright, so yes, I'm going to. I want to live long. I have so many vices. That is cutting my life short already, so I'm putting emotional stress to make it shorter and honestly, it makes you emotionally available to me, it makes me emotionally available For your things that matter. Yeah, for my family precisely Nothing that really upsets me the other things, the other extensions, the other jarrah that you are always carrying around. No-transcript, Eh, that's it.

Speaker 2 29:48

And I think setting those boundaries right is something that, as men, we have to be very intentional about. You know when I asked the question of showing up and you said commitment and you said part-time. Is that setting of that boundaries that allows you to be able to say, okay, I'll do this right, but I know it's not something you they won't kind of nonsense to you next time just because you did it once and all that? Okay, fine, you have something to say?

Speaker 5 30:24

add to no, I think most people have said to do it.

Speaker 4 30:30

I think it's so impactful.

Speaker 3 30:32

It's so impactful that my boss called me this morning and she said I know you love your time. I'll make this as short as possible. Where is the number of the person I wanted?

Speaker 5 30:39

to call yesterday and I've said thank you very much, bye, because you've set boundaries Well, so for me, me, the peace came from I saw the kind of life. My mom believed and so she doesn't care.

Speaker 2 30:57

But I think deep down in her she didn't care because she was carrying so much weight and so I see, I see I don't care, it's not something I buy, so okay it's usually, when people say they don't care, it's usually a traumatic response yeah, because I just want me to be here, I, I so I realized that after, of course, started, after I started mixing with, like they said, right the crowds and I'm meeting with now and with, like they said, the crowds that I'm meeting with now, so I saw the weights that she carried and I cannot say it's my sister.

Speaker 5 31:42

So when my mum died, I took one decision, and it was that, no matter who, the person is.

Speaker 5 31:46

I would never allow anybody inspire bitterness in me, so what I mean bitterness, I mean anything that comes with, um, I'm feeling resentment, whatever, or I'm not supposed to do this, but you're giving me, you understand, I won't bottle that up. I wonder what do, whatever it is, but I will tell you. You know, this is not my job. I'm doing it for you because you don't have a choice, not because I want to do it. I don't tell you it. Don't come from my mind, that's it. I don't want to live with that weight. I saw what it did to her. I see what it's doing to my sister sometimes and I don't want to be that person. Oh see, let me know if Jai sees. Let me know if.

Speaker 3 32:38

Jai sees in a very, very easy way. I mean, I've reached a point and, honestly, as I don't understand point and honestly I don't understand Atlantico, I work with only Nigerian teachers and BIS Nigerian experts.

Speaker 1 32:54

CIS.

Speaker 3 32:55

Nigerian experts, and I'm even a little British. I found that these guys once is about to stress them like this right, they do not care. Malaria is five days off. You are using malaria medicine once you feel better. Today you are going to morrow. You see, I've also come to realize that.

Speaker 3 33:29

I remember you said that I want to ask about the food. I want to know what is the meaning of the word. You have to say that in English. I mean, it's not like I took a bullet for you and you are complaining that my blood is staining your whole and that my bullet was meant for you and it's always going to be like that, and I don't. I don't think we have people please us here, but we care so much about image that we want to keep that image there, but image that will be forgotten seven days after the way. Keeping right seven days. You know the people that will remember. You are the people that have Really 7 days of streaming and I came back and I took all this drama. That's the end of Solomon Grundy. I'm not doing this again.

Speaker 1 35:29

I'm not doing this again. I think it's just, it's not about just looking you.

Speaker 3 35:33

I don't know you get to that point and you just know that you know what that's it. So everybody that will come to me sorry, everybody that will come to the house at Lekki you know they will come every weekend and now my house is suddenly so far because it's negative, but when I was lucky it wasn't really fun, and these people are talking about you should come from my gaga to lucky, but from again to again. Now, the house is far so you begin to now you, you just get that that, that realization ah, okay, you know.

Speaker 3 36:04

And you now go and seek. If you go and seek for support, the way you have a support in them, there's always a and the label no, he's coming to test us. They'll tell you know, we draw a minister, yes, you don't. So even when you are asking for help, people are not giving you help because of the image you have already given, you don't even get the support because of this image you are, we are building you know, that's about it I told the boss this morning I can't come to the concert tomorrow because I'm keeping the money on in my account for petrol or money.

Speaker 3 36:38

And tuesday ah, you want to share all that? I don't? Well, I am not coming to the concert tomorrow, but I'll come for the one on Monday. Right? Because you don't go asking for support all the time, you have created an image that will not allow people to support you, and that's exactly why you just Jesus died for everybody. When his eyes got clear, he woke up on the third day. Well, I think, I think for me, what I would say is I can't laugh that one out.

Speaker 4 37:16

So there's a thing about impact right, but I can't remember for the life of me the particular movie where this statement came out from. But that statement kind of just changed my perspective to a lot of things and the statement was like okay, what about if that person that you felt you were doing something for, or that person that you felt you'd love told you I didn't ask you for it? I've experienced that what's going?

Speaker 4 37:48

to be your reaction right? Are you going to feel bad because you did it for the person with the notion that the person was going to return? The favor which can be termed transactional, or you did it because it will have on your good arts to do so.

Speaker 4 38:09

I'm saying this because, if you look at when you mentioned impact, I might be doing things because it's what I want to do, right, right is the impact I feel you're gonna have. It's impact you're gonna have. But you might look at it and feel did I ask you so? Does that change me from doing it next time? Well, it's not to you. No, I didn't. It shouldn't, it shouldn't. Depends on where you did it from yes I'm doing it because I want to do it, then it should have an impact. It shouldn't your? The way you respond shouldn't take me off totally. We're humans. You feel bad?

Speaker 2 38:50

it might take me off if I this one, because there's a place of honor too. If you have not honored me, is is putting. So what I'm putting seed in in bad ground. So what I mean? Impact has a lot of things.

Speaker 5 39:02

Yes, it does, it does okay so I experienced that I had a friend that I was helping out with some things. I did some things for them and all of that and two weeks I didn't reach out. I was battling for my life acute ulcer in the hospital and they said when I called them I said, ah, guy, now for you. He didn't even check up on me, said ah, you don't reach out. Now I feel like you don't finish with that. And I was like ah.

Speaker 5 39:32

So we got to this setting conversation and then I said ah, but Nami, they always reach out, nami, they do this and that. And I said I forced you. That's what happened, so I paused.

Speaker 5 39:41

I don't send you post. So I paused and thought about it and then I cried because truly, they didn't force me. I was in, out of, out of was that I was doing. I was doing it because I felt like he needed those things to be done for him. She understand, by a friend, this same person, after he graduated senior by a year, so after he graduated from the university and he had a delay with NYC. I was always checking up to say, okay, alpha, the NYC money done, complete for you to do your class and none of that. And then one day he said this one you always ask him about this NYC thing, you just say, no, be you, they do meand I'm likeand so this the whole thing wasI'm not even going to go into it it was a lot, but I stopped.

Speaker 5 40:34

I didn't stop being his friend.

Speaker 1 40:36

I just stopped. All of that impacts. I'm saying I don't want to go there because people don't define friendship.

Speaker 2 40:43

That table is the table I like to break. I like to shatter the. I don't like the leg on the. I don't like that table has four legs. People don't define what friendship is and that gives me the aches, it just gives me a headache, because there's no thread of mind this life. I will say that nonsense. You cannot, we can be, and I and I think it's definition you're my acquaintance, close colleague, close neighbor. You will be anything but friend if friend there's a. There's a. There's a certain thing, there's certain things that I don't think our friends should say. That's why I said I want to go on that table, because that table will take us to where we should not. Let's just stay on cultivating. You know the garden, okay, so let's, as you generally just pushing this to a close. Um, what part of your story is it that you're still coming to peace with? Like there's?

Impact vs. Expectations in Relationships

Speaker 2 41:40

something about your life that, okay, yes, they've told me. Oh, I know, I realize that. Okay, whether it was my fault or it wasn't my fault, Like what part of it are you still making peace with that? Even as you're going on that journey, you still look back and it still makes you feel cringy. I know this one will catch because for anyone to talk about this, but yeah, let's just see so let's.

Speaker 4 42:13

I don't know, I don't know which perspective they have any part.

Speaker 2 42:18

Again, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. I don't want to put it to a particular. It can be anything, it can be okay.

Speaker 4 42:24

So let me let me refresh what you're saying. What you're saying is what is that thing that we feel the impact? You have done before, I've done before I wish I didn't do, or I'm still living with the impact of an action. That's how you have received it. That's how it's fine I didn't get it.

Speaker 3 42:45

I didn't really get it.

Speaker 4 42:46

No no, I want us to get it right.

Speaker 2 42:47

No any, see, okay, refresh your question I don't want to refresh it I want you to receive it in the way that allows you to give your responses to it. Okay, now what part of your story. It's your story, so I can. I can't guide that story. What part of your story are you still making peace with? Ah?

Speaker 3 43:11

the problem is. The problem is I do not absolutely have any regrets, really, personally. If it comes to career choice, I don't have any regrets. This is what I wanted to do all my life and I'm doing it. If it's choice of partner, well, the ones that were regrettable did not become.

Speaker 1 43:38

So that's not something to regret about.

Speaker 3 43:43

Maybe I didn't have children on time. Maybe that would be the only thing. But choice of friends I've always thought that I would think myself as likeable and I would always be open to people that get into the circle. I've always thought that I have a good judge of character, so people that get close to me are supposed to be of good character. And everybody has always been a good character until until when we are in the same boat. All right. So I now realize that, and I realize that people just want to know the the you they met in 2003.

Speaker 3 44:40

So now in 2025, and you have moved on you are still friends with them, but you have moved on and they do things to keep you in 2003. Not being able to identify that kind of relationship on time right, that's probably what I can say I regret, because I have seen such kind of people do dangerous things to affect my career, even at Muson, for instance. I mean, so the director would when we were going to set exam question the director would look at the exam question.

Speaker 3 45:23

This guy has good command of English. So when is graduation? Oh, mr Coeday, normally when I was working in the FRCN, somebody would write my speech for me. Would you write mine? So I've been writing this speech for the past six to seven years. I'm writing it without AI. I'm writing it. Would you write mine? So I've been writing this speech for the past six to seven years. So one of those are drunken uh movements. I was telling this, my very good former, and you know what you have to. You have to. You know you have to pop your game so that you know people can. You don't just play piano, people can notice you, for instance. And that's the, that's the. That speech sounds like. Oh, I read, I read the speech. I just said it in person. The editor called me some months later. Are you going to write my speech? Or you want me to go and tell this person that said you, I want to write my speech, so why would you go?

Speaker 5 46:18

and tell my boss that I'm the person that I told you that you person that said you are gonna write my speech.

Speaker 3 46:19

So why would you go and tell my boss that I'm the person that? Right, I told you that you just want to destroy my career again. But because she is an older person, she's like oh, I don't know about you guys. Wherever I walk, we used to collaborate. He can write. He's doing that for me. Do you want to do something for me too, like you want to draw the concert program? That's how she curled it. She took her time for her. She took her time to tell me minutes, she told me. Then I opened my eyes and I saw his actions, for the past six months has been very, very toxic I wasn't paying attention so for me, the only regret is the kind of friends.

Speaker 3 46:56

Not, I have good friends, but certain ones that I should have kicked out of my life earlier than now at least it's.

Speaker 2 47:04

It's good that your eyes opened up to that, because I think that they leave. They leave prints. It's just that we don't see that, yeah, they leave, but at least you sing, you sing that's the reason why.

Speaker 3 47:16

That's the reason I'm saying the same thing they leave. Is that print that is leading to impact level ratio?

Speaker 2 47:23

if I do this for you, if you're not enough for you, too bad I'm not even going to get that stage and I I keep telling people one of the things, one of the things, that one of the greatest transformation of my life was one that I said last year of my life was one that I said last year if I noticed your way, it was supposed to be friends and I can't tell what it is that and I can't tell what it is that you are doing in my life. Last year I called a few people. It's our friendship, what's it about?

Speaker 5 47:51

it's great because every time I go with it.

Speaker 2 47:54

You did that. No, you can't beat me, sure, like you can't beat me, and you know that caused me to. I reassessed a few people from inner courts. Move them to outer court. You know, there's inner court, there's all your holies are moving to the inner place, there's inner court. I moved you from inner inner courts to outside the temple. We can't still be saying hello once it once. But don't let me think that I have a friend who's loyal, who's trustworthy, but who isn't there, right, okay, um, now you should be, now that you have reassigned the yeah, you have. You phrased the question now okay, so, okay.

Speaker 4 48:32

so I think I think for me it's um, I won't call it regret I I'll think no, don't use the word regret.

Speaker 4 48:40

It's a story, I'll call it rebase Rebase my baseline and that's around things on loyalty Right, things on vulnerability Right and things on expectations those three things. There are people that have expected a lot more loyalty I didn't get. There are people that have given more loyalty but got stopped. There are people I have expectations for and they didn't meet up, or people that I know I didn't meet up their expectation, yeah. So those are things that I, as four, and they didn't meet up. Or people that I know I didn't meet up the expectation, right. Yeah. So those are things that I sometimes would look at, which, if I had known, I would have flipped the switch right.

Speaker 4 49:30

But apart from that, life goes on one thing I also know is and that's just like. Korede said I don't live in total like you regret something heavily. I wish some things. I just I've learned better I've, but I think also it's I was, I was driving, yes, I was driving back home yesterday.

Speaker 3 50:03

Of course, my family lives in adenay jones with my mother because it's close to everywhere. Now and everybody's like, ah, why is the family living with you? I said, well, that's not your concern. This is my mother-in-law's house, this is their school, this is my wife's office.

Speaker 3 50:17

This is my mother-in-law's house this is their school, this is my wife's office, right? Just makes sense. I think and I will go and pick them from school that it doesn't concern you what that is, you know, but I've also realized that I don't know about him, but I believe it falls into the same category. Is that if you are raised, um, in some sort of comfort, right, it is easy. If you are raised in some sort of comfort, right, it is easy for you to adapt and forget? A couple of backstabbing People that are raised on comfort see life different from people that are raised on survival, you know.

Speaker 3 50:53

So, yeah, I'm sorry, so I'm raised on comfort. Oh, I said you and I, I know, but I don't, yeah, I'm sorry. They see life differently from people that are raised on survival. You know, and I was telling people yesterday, when I was dropping him off as my wife's brother, so we're saying the same thing was like, why do these people drive like this? I said, well, you see, every person that wants to overtake you is the only battle they can win today. Just let them win it, true.

Speaker 4 51:27

True, avoid the roadies? No really, because there's some things you don't mean.

Speaker 3 51:35

As in, it's the only battle they can win today. They can't win the government can't, government can't win the school face coming in, but overtaking you is one thing, one battle.

Making Peace with Our Stories

Speaker 3 51:42

Just let him overtake you you know, and it was like I didn't think that way. So what I think is I said well, you see you, and I didn't start entering boss until you want to become niggas. There's always daddy dropping you back and forth, you know. So you would want to scam somebody because you are coming from survival. I wouldn't see your money, I want to scam you, you get so. So when we it's, it's easy for us to quickly recognize those regrets and just move on. That's why when I say you say no regrets, it's not no regrets, it's just that. Well, I have to lose. I've done enough for them.

Speaker 2 52:20

I think it's a great perspective. I don't think it has anything to do with comfort or survival, because I know that I have met with people who I know were not raised on survival. But the outlook towards life is me myself and I. That's a, that's a survival mindset, but we're not raised, so where do you? That's why I also think that the kind of people that you interact with would rub off on you.

Speaker 3 52:57

This is a good rubbing off yes, the comfort, the comfort I'm referring to now is not comfort of just a material thing. Okay, right, the comfort I'm talking about is the comfort of being able to talk to your mom, you know, being having access. Yeah, I know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 53:16

I'm saying, I'm saying that it's just it's just so, when you meet people who you think that you, those are the times you're like they're the odd people out, like, like you just can't figure. Like this person is from this kind of house, like where you this kind of behavior, nibboloti, what like? Where is it from? Do?

Speaker 5 53:40

you understand, so for me you know how they say we live lives. Like Timmy Shea would say seasons. I wish I.

Speaker 1 53:56

One of the things that I regret. I look back at that and I'm like Guy, come on was.

Speaker 5 54:02

There was a time when I was made to believe I don't know if this was intentional or what. I just believed that I wasn't supposed to enjoy what's it called, so I don't know how to put this out in words like the enjoyment should not be for me alone. So if I've, if I'm not, if I'm not doing this thing and my siblings are not enjoying our train, understand?

Speaker 5 54:29

I should not do it do you get, looking back at it, that now, and I'm like, if I die today, those things that I'm saying, whatever is good. Oh, nika, like he said, some of it has happened. It happened recently and Tumishe was like just something happened. I did something that was supposed to be like for a personal project. I used it to do a house project for everybody and then, jesus, it turned into something that I didn't ex. If, if, if anybody had that thing, they would be like. So, looking back, I'm like I, I see what didn't they do you that time, what you didn't say then. Another thing under under one is I didn't need to try so hard at life. Looking at it now, I realise that you know, sometimes we do these things because of why?

Speaker 2 55:36

Why do we do those things?

Speaker 3 55:39

It is, it's conditioning.

Speaker 2 55:43

I agree with you, but I'm saying you know, sometimes, sometimes honestly, nobody expects it of conditioning. I agree with you, but I'm saying you know, sometimes, sometimes honestly, nobody expects it of us.

Speaker 3 55:50

Yeah, many times, nobody does.

Speaker 2 55:52

Nobody expects it of us, that is true.

Speaker 5 55:54

So why do we? So I realize, I realize that Go back to image.

Speaker 3 55:57

You know what are you going to remember with.

Speaker 2 56:01

For me for me it wasn't image. I didn't grow up like me. I'm a very different. I'm just like People say they don't do some I don't understand. I've always been, and I think that's one of my greatest fights with my parents is when Ibalagba said something. Komode does not ask questions. It freaks me Up to now. It still freaks me out Like I want to know why you are saying this is a don't sit at the doorstep. It's a very good place to sit. It's very comfortable.

Speaker 4 56:36

Yeah, but you know what? Okay, so if I'm to take from what you just said and take from what Koryodee said when he was talking about people that are able to have a dialogue right with their folks, kind of our elderly people let me borrow what you just said if when growing up you were able to ask those questions, you didn't know that they answered no.

Speaker 2 57:02

No, that's what I'm saying. Let's assume people, because they didn't know themselves.

Speaker 4 57:05

People right's, assume people Right. No, there's actually some people that right now maybe, I admit, but they grew up in places where you go ask those questions right and you got an answer, you got an audience Right. You see that those people will not grow up challenging life Right? Hmm, they will grow up expecting responses and if you ask a question, I will always get a response if I don't get a response.

Speaker 4 57:33

That's the issue. But someone that is always asking and not getting would always believe that you know what. I can't just take everything you are saying hook, line and sinker. There has to be a reason why. But if you get a response, it will be okay. That makes sense. The day that person doesn't get a response, it becomes an issue Now the person that doesn't get a response will look at the person I'm saying Kilo nshie. So what's the big deal?

Speaker 2 58:05

Potato, potato cake. Yeah, I see that.

Speaker 3 58:09

There are things you know, this question you have raised there, this company question you have raised but I've been spending the last five years being well actively, two years now being an IFAR student, and I've been going to the annals of yoruba. I came across one funny one about three weeks ago, one of the sfa, and he says yeah, in january he said Aliejo Alabojo.

Speaker 3 58:46

So when an elderly person is giving you jizz, or when they never give it to your mum, who are you going to ask to confirm that you are not ill? It goes on to say A visitor comes from somewhere and tells you it's raining at Adeneye Jones.

Speaker 5 59:01

I've not been there, you can't tell. And when the pregnant woman?

Speaker 3 59:06

says the baby is biting my belly button, that it is going to go in the skin.

Speaker 3 59:11

You know how they say that Ogon lafim banin lo Ti aba fogo banin lo Tio babosi kafi we re tenji. That was the woman I met. That's where I reached my point. The point is to translate this table into. That's what made it. I've read that particular about. I've read it, but that is what changed my own path. You know what Socrates says knowledge is absolute. But the Roman Isaiah says knowledge is not absolute. The knowledge of yesterday is to today. So, when you start, when I do all of this for you and it's, knowledge is absolute, but the knowledge of yesterday is still there today, so when you start, when I do all of this for you and it's not making sense, I put some madness into it.

Speaker 3 59:51

My madness now is I stay by my when you need me, call me if what I do enough is not enough for you. For you, can I use your wristwatch? Sure, I'll give it to you on Monday. Okay, monday, I just want to start this night. Can I get it on Saturday, normally before I say okay and I'll go home angrily no, no, no, no. You promised to give me today. Can I have it now? If you want it again, I'll ask for it again and I'll just move. And everybody was looking at me like that's alright, just move. Nobody's going to beat you man.

Planting Good Seeds and Uprooting Bad

Speaker 2 1:00:25

I don't know, so I'm going to run off with this and allow us to give our imputes into this. What are you planting in your life and what needs of rooting? You might need a second to just breathe in the air. Think about it. If it's just one thing that you're planting and one thing that you're putting, who wants to go first?

Speaker 4 1:00:56

I don't have to think about it. Really, okay, let me go first I'll call out to the mic right, let's do, let's do that.

Speaker 2 1:01:04

No, no, no.

Speaker 3 1:01:07

Let's go let's go.

Speaker 4 1:01:10

So I think for me, what I'm approaching is what doesn't work Basically and that's part time. There are some things that I believe so much in this thing about learn, unlearn, rele, relearn, yes. So what doesn't work, it might have worked before. If it doesn't work today, take it out what works, learn it and move on.

Speaker 3 1:01:38

That's me okay, what am I planting? I think the relationship between myself and my siblings. Alright, it was good. Alright, it's getting better. Alright, I'm going to plant that into my children, because of course I'm going to leave this world and leave them, whether I, whether I'm going to, of course I'm going to leave this world and leave them behind. But I will be happier if, if you know that, there's cordiality amongst, amongst my family you know, I'm village.

Speaker 3 1:02:19

I try as much as possible to just and it's not because the children will go and marry their cousin in america, because they don't know, that's no way. That's no way, it's just that yeah sometimes I want to be proud also when we go to ojide or ekimogu and somebody's boasting that the Kinecon dynasty won something last year. You know so.

Speaker 3 1:02:48

I also want to be. But I said, I'm trying to make sure that in the family right from my immediate, that's my own nuclear family to ensure that there's togetherness amongst everyone, even after I leave. What am I operating? It's just that there's this thing I have the tendency to be just me, me, me, yeah, because when I, when you push me to the particular corner like this, I just I lost on every. That's the end and it takes, it takes forever for me to come back from that. And by the time you come back from that, there will be too many, there will have been too many, not necessarily palpable harm, but something that takes a lot of effort to to repair. You know, and it's, it's a bit difficult, it's, it's tough, I agree, but I'm using my family as the first experiment to bring. Yeah, that's what I'm, that's what I'm doing.

Speaker 5 1:03:51

Well for me, what am I planting? I'm planting seeds that would make me not feel guilty when I put myself first, when I don't do, when I don't do when I don't do collective things and not feel guilty about them. I've been, I've been practicing that though I still get some few stares and all of that. But I'm trying as much as possible not to feel bad when I do things for myself. And when I mean do things, I mean do things for myself you see me buy something for myself and I'm thinking God, I'm a man in love and love.

Speaker 5 1:04:39

But then, god, I'm busting my behinds out for so I should be the first person to so that and I think if I'm able to plant that in a jam needs, I would have peace. What I'm operating is worrying so much about everything. I want to stop. I want to stop worrying. Fine, I'm the first child. I feel like I have this responsibility of ensuring that everybody turns out better, so and so, so there's so much things to worry about, the ones that are not even here even the ones that we don't marry, I'm still always Well, you know, that's a choice, yeah, so I'm trying to approve all of that.

Speaker 5 1:05:34

I'm trying not to worry. So these people have their lives to live, so why am I worrying?

Speaker 2 1:05:39

Are you not feeling headache or stressed because these?

Speaker 5 1:05:42

are two different ideas you're holding. I am. You have to know what you want first and you have to wait. I am. These are two different ideas you are holding.

Speaker 2 1:05:47

I am, I am, I am.

Speaker 4 1:05:49

I am.

Speaker 5 1:05:49

I am I am.

Speaker 4 1:05:52

So how do you?

Speaker 5 1:05:54

draw the line. So how do I draw the line? I what I do now is okay. I think I watched something. I don't know where I saw that thing from and I realised that at the end of the day, it would be only me.

Speaker 1 1:06:13

All these people that I'm worried about All these people all these things that I'm worried about.

Speaker 2 1:06:17

Do you have instances now that you can take those decisions for yourself and just do it? You might feel a little bit of regret because it's still something new to you, but you do those things for yourself and just do it.

Speaker 5 1:06:26

You might feel a little bit of regret because it's still something new to you do those things for yourself, yeah, so I had this phone.

Speaker 1 1:06:34

This was my old phone, and then, when I was about to buy this one and we needed to do something in the house.

Speaker 5 1:06:41

It was going to be.

Speaker 2 1:06:43

I went ahead and bought a new phone that's what's where it starts.

Speaker 5 1:06:47

I went ahead and bought a new phone because I was supposed to buy a phone before the lockdown. I was supposed to buy a phone. My phone was really bad, but I ended up buying it.

Speaker 2 1:06:57

Prepared me time for the house yeah, because it's also possible that what you have done in trying to always be there for them is to raise them on an entitlement mentality again that's not your fault.

Speaker 5 1:07:08

So out of what you have to do so what I'm doing okay, so it wasn't. They didn't force me but this was like so what I was? Trying to do was so that they don't miss you don't experience. No, you don't, you understand. You don't have to. I thought that was justifying what you did.

Speaker 2 1:07:25

That was actually justifying what you did.

Speaker 3 1:07:26

You are justifying what you have done, pruth.

Speaker 2 1:07:29

I am actually in a step, like he said, the question I asked him is what one thing are you doing for yourself now? And you have to go into the annals. But it's fine, it's a gradual thing.

Speaker 5 1:07:43

Like I said, gradual.

Speaker 2 1:07:45

Alright. Thank you very much, guys, for being in the studio this has been good it was supposed to just be a few minutes, but it's almost going into an hour now. Thank you very much for listening. This has been um mindfully to me, but this is all you know. This is not to me. She's worse. Thank you for listening and um, I would like to hear your feedback about what you've heard, what you think.

Speaker 3 1:08:13

Of course, again, happy men's music yeah happy men's health mental health guys who remember is the name of the month you can't even remember.