What Happens When Love Isn’t Enough?

What if love is present but you still can’t exhale? We dig into the lived difference between being loved and being held, and why emotional safety—how we are seen, corrected, and accompanied—can change the entire texture of life. Emotions become signals instead of enemies, discomfort turns into data, and language gives shape to experiences we’ve carried wordlessly for years.

With candid stories about grief, shutdown, and the pressure to perform care, we trace how inherited limitations shape our patterns and how compassion can coexist with accountability. We talk about moving from “doing connection” to “being present,” resisting the urge to fix, and building a wider window for another person’s pain. Along the way, we explore how precise naming—pissed, upset, angry—alters state, why bilingual cultural contexts make nuance harder, and how simple nervous system practices help the body feel safe enough to soften.

You’ll hear practical ways to spot self-abandonment hiding under helpfulness, reframe discipline into corrective guidance, and stay with someone’s discomfort without making it about your own anxiety. Most of all, we return to anchoring questions: Am I me? Where do I feel safest exhaling? If those questions land, this conversation offers tools, language, and gentle structure to start living into your answers.

If the episode resonates, follow the show, share it with someone who needs these words, and leave a review with the phrase you’re taking forward. Your reflections help others find a space where love and holding finally meet.

To get Ola's book on Amazon https://a.co/d/4x5FjOA

or on Selar Selar.com/m/theseundawodu for pdf 

Transcript

Signals, Discomfort, And Emotional Clarity

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Where people realize that being uncomfortable is not a bad thing. Being uncomfortable with being uncomfortable with your feeling is not a bad thing. Again, this is what I this is what I call emotions and feelings. They're just signals. They're just signals. They're just signals. And if you realize that they're just signals, then you realize that this is telling you something. What is it telling you? That's what you know. Figure out. If you're if you're sitting in if you're sitting in um a conversation, you're sitting with someone and them not saying anything is making you feel uncomfortable. It's not the fact that nothing is being said that is what is making you uncomfortable. It's the fact that have I done something wrong? Why are they not saying anything to me? And why is it why why am I just thoughts because you feel that if this person loves me or cares about me or likes me, they should be talking to me.

Welcome Back: When Love Isn’t Enough, Part Two

Loved Versus Held: Early Realizations

SPEAKER_01 2:08

And with that, with that, I welcome you to the part two of when love is not enough, and um when you need to feel whole. Hi, my full partners. How did the week just gone by? Treat you, and most importantly, how did you show up for yourself? If you do not have an answer for that right now, that's okay. That's okay, I think, but be very aware that you are a vessel that needs to be taken care of. Your content is as important and valuable as your output. Just give yourself time, keep showing up. It will make sense eventually. Eventually, when that event will be wall-e. I don't know, but it will make sense eventually. Talking about making sense. Ola and I started a conversation, I mean, you're wondering what we're talking about. We're back, and um, it was around his book when love is not enough, and we're still going to fully explore. Hopefully, we'll be able to go through the 12 chapters. I'm just going to be asking one or two questions from each chapter so that um somehow Sha we'll be able to. Is it okay? Is it okay by you to do that? Yes, but so we're going to try to explore that's the key one. Because um I don't know how far we'll go, but we'll try to explore that. Okay, so if you did not catch um the introduction to this book, please go listen to last week's episode and then come back to listen to this. I'll finish this and then go back to listen to last week's episode. Chapter one The Anatomy of Love versus the Experience of Holding. You make a clear distinction between being loved and being held here. Um when did that difference first become undeniable in your body? And not just your thinking.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

From I think from the introduction, I it was something that I was aware of in my body. You know, you can't be aware of something in your body and not in your brain, not cognitively. Um I remember that I was just lying in bed and somebody had asked me a question. I can't remember what question was that eventually I decided, okay, you know what? Let me do this work. I did, I think I never did the work because I I knew there was just pain. I knew there was just pain in in figuring out why I was the way I was.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

And if you read the book, you'd you'd you'd see you didn't tell too much, but I you were read between the lines.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yes. Um and and it's not it's not you know how people would think that oh um the pain is see the pain of physical pain is serious, but the pain of emotional pain because you don't even know it's there, but it's just not allowing you to live a life, the kind of life that you know you want. You don't even know you you don't even know how that kind of life is because you see it in some other people, but you can't you can't even tell if that is a possibility for you. Right. So it was just um and I knew I was loved. I know my parents love me, and they show it with you know, most parents give if your mom pisses you off and she knows you're pissed off, she can give you an extra piece of meat.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

You guys that had to be honest, you guys that had that, you guys are very lucky.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Well, I'm telling you, I was loved. I'm loved.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

I'm telling you that I'm just telling you that it's no, if you in my house, in my house, if they no, nobody apologized. And you know, when I say that, and they say that women they say uh whatever cook your favorite meal. First, did I have a favorite meal? So I didn't have a favorite meal, but like you said, I kind of knew I was loved, but I knew I was not loved early enough, you know. I knew I was I I I knew of I don't want to go, you know, I don't want to take over this conversation, you know, but I knew I was not loved early because hey, you're gonna no matter what you tell usually told me after what you did to me when I was six, there's not even like give me the world, what I needed was for you to see and hear me, but you didn't. I I appreciated them for loving me in their language, um, I appreciated the fact that, well, I had the I had a home to sleep, I had secondary school to go to, and all of that. Um, I appreciated that I was burst by them, to be honest. Uh but uh so go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Let me yeah, so um, and because I knew I was loved, and you know how um you you shouldn't be asking for more. Yeah, you shouldn't be asking for more. You shouldn't be asking. If you if you're loved, you're loved. Like your love, they give you food. Have they ever starved you? Have you ever come back from school and there was no food? Have they ever not paid your school fees? Uh do you have clothes to wear? You're very ungrateful. If we say you you know love, you even want to say that love is not enough. Right? But I just knew that it was not just that, it's it's also in how you speak to me, it's how you correct me, it's how you listen to me, it's in how you tell me that um what I did was wrong and help me to understand it. Just because I did something wrong doesn't mean that I understand that what I did was wrong. When I say stuff and and they come out wrongly, right? It doesn't mean that I intentionally wanted to say stuff to hurt anybody, and I still may not even know what it is that I said that was hurtful. It's saying you helping me say, Oh, you shouldn't have done that, you could have done this better. I'm not saying take away the discipline, right? But discipline without um without it being corrective, it's abuse.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

And even if you don't think it's physical abuse, it still does something to your so at what so at what point did you get to that point that uh that I had that I when that person asked that question and forced you to work?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

It it took it took me it took cognitively realize, come to that place. It took me a while because it was now when I decided that oh my goodness, if I'm like this, there will be a few people who uh like dealing with this kind of and I realized that it was not just the loving part, it was allowing me space to be me.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Okay, so that's where that's what you define as being held, yes. Right, so um would you say I don't I know there's no research, but from the conversations and the people well, there's no research that we know of, um, but the conversations you've had, people come to your table and all of that that you've had, what percentage of people do you think are aware of uh how love being loved is different than being held again because you know this thing is just the words um and you even take a it would take a okay I'm trying to see how to answer this best with with with people and I'm I'm glad that you understand words and the power of words with people with we and I'm by contextualizing this to Nigerians, we're not very word-based. If you're word-based, you know, what does that mean?

Correction, Discipline, And Emotional Safety

SPEAKER_00 11:05

We're not very in terms of how we use words, we're not very intentional. I think that's the word about how we use words. We can know words like in our head because we saw it in the novel, but most people never go back to check what that word really means, and it so they are having conversations and they just figured out that this is what it means in the novel, and when they're having conversations, and that's what lives with them. And at the end of the day, you find that holding is just a word, but what does it do for you? It's in me having to ask for hugs. When I tell people I like hugs, like hi, huh? Are you okay? Like, yes, my body needs to feel calm, and it's not everybody that wants to that I want to give me a hug. It's just some people that you hug them and your body just your body just feels okay. Um, some people just want to visit them, just want to see them, and you just know you're okay. And I got this one of the feedback that I got was um this person just my coach actually um sent me a voice note. She's she doesn't talk a lot. Sends me almost six minute voice note after she read it, and and I'd sent her the before I even published, I sent her the um e-copy to go and give me and she didn't know things like I'm like, okay, I've taken some of the feedback and then looked at it. But when I sent the book to her, she sent me pictures of the pages, how she's marked it. I saw the book, how she's marked it. She said, You know what? I just got it from I don't understand e-copies. You're right. And she's giving me, she's giving out the book. She bought she bought uh more hard copies, and she's giving out the book. Um, she bought for even short copies, and she's giving out the book, and she says that one other person that read it just is he gets me. And when the guy says he gets me, I can imagine the number of people who are going through that in their head, but they don't have the words to say this.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

So uh when I say all the time that we don't have tools, that's what I mean. Like we don't have words, you don't, and we're very and that's why um a friend was saying to me very uh that very recently we have a conversation and he was like to me so why like I'm I said no I'm not uh uh you're the regular lady that you just say um write poems to and all that because that poem you are writing, I have I have carried a like a mental thesaurus, and I have carried a physical thesaurus, and my I'm like I'm looking, I'm hearing all the synonyms, and because what I've like if only we understood sometimes and when I'm hearing health, when I was reading a part, health, I interpreted it as safe. Yes, I because I I just want to be I don't like being I like giving hugs. I am not very receptive to hugs because I don't I'm giving hugs when I know the energy, I know my energy, I know the energy I'm bringing. I'm not quite receptive to because I don't know the energy that's coming to me, you know. So, yeah, let's move on to chapter two because if we stay on that, you know, we'll be able to get and I want us to be able to touch each question uh at least one question. Right. So let's go to where the gap begins. Um, you talk about inherited limitations. How does the compassion for your parents change your understanding of your own patterns?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

So again, it when I realized and it I think it was when I realized that it wasn't your fault. You can't give what you don't have, and I think it started there. You you can't blame people if they weren't given the tools to live a life that allows them to be emotionally present, intelligent, create and for want of a better word, intelligence, yes, create that's it's not to want of a better word, that's what it is. Yeah, so I keep saying these things when I say um when I ask people, are you self-aware? And they say, I'm self-aware, and they give themselves like seven or I I'm just I'm always shaking my head because for me to ask that question, I've seen something, and I'm I'm I think I'm self-aware, but I'm still like a three, and I'm asking you that question, I say you're like a seven.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

I'm going to be a coach for a moment, for a moment. Three, why three? Maybe even two. I'm saying two. Do you think I'm I I just guys, I'm so sorry. So this is the coach to coach thing. Isn't that too severe?

Holding, Words, And The Need For Hugs

SPEAKER_00 18:02

If you look at if you look at what self-awareness is, I see it as a gamut, a range. Right. And I do a range from one to ten, not one to a hundred. One to ten. If you're looking at emotional, if you're looking at intelligence quotient, um where would most people be? Right? Most people will be average. That would be a uh 100 to a 120, um, and not a 200, right? And anything less than a 120, I think, is is is not intelligent.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Well, that's what it's saying.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Yeah. So if you if on that scale your hundred to 100 to 200, um, sorry, 180 to 200 or 240 is extremely intelligent, right? That would be from about four or five to ten on self-awareness scale. Right. And if self-awareness is not just knowing what you're thinking, it's it's an awareness of self, right? And there are things that you haven't realized about yourself. How then do you know how to deal with thoughts that are taking you to the world?

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Okay, so is your is your I want to get back to this point. I really want to get back to it. So is is is is your reticence reticence retinance, you know the word, is your hesitance come you know coming from the fact that it has become a buzzword?

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Maybe, but I also think that it's because I'm growing.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Okay, so let's leave it at that. Chapter three, modern life and not live, modern life and ancient need. Um what's one small but radical shift you personally had to make to move from doing connection to being present? Because I think this is where you tell the story of your is it a Martins or the young guy who you took to coffee?

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Oh yeah, Midi.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Midi.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Um, you know, I think towards the end was Martin, yeah. Okay, so let's I think the I think the major shift for me was stop thinking while having conversations with people. Not not thinking, thinking, but thinking to solve their problems.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Oh, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

You know how you're somebody's having a conversation when you're thinking, oh, Tobashiba, Tobashi.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Especially when you have shared stories, especially when you have when the when the story is looking like a mirror of yours. This was something I had to learn. And I've not learned to learn. No, I'm still learning, you know, and then somebody comes to me to me, and there's this story that is like a mirror image to my story, and I'm like, and I have to rem I I did, you know, and the story I'm gonna tell in doing the story I tell myself to take me out of out of that thinking process is is a little bit gross, or maybe not gross, but I say to myself, or I'll say it anyways. I say to myself that if even twins were sexually molested at the same time, at the same time, they will respond differently. They will respond differently because their makeup is different. The the in you know that's what I say to myself. Like I say to myself, I say to myself, like, uh, even if it was and and we see and and then I now that I'm even reading rereading Victor Frankl's man's search for meaning, the the the rest the different response of people to the gas chambers after, you know, they had the same experiences. And I'm not even talking about faith or religion here. It's just even if we have the same DNA, we will respond. So that's the yes, like go to that extreme in my head, like. What to Michelle? Nah. The story might be exactly the same, but she's not you.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

And it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

And he's not you.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

The hard part for me is the work I do merges so much with life that you see patterns almost everywhere. It's just for you to just not even try. Just just a bit of a looking. And you want to say, oh, you want to give this advice or that advice. And it's still hard. It's still, I can't even lie. It's still hard. Because you see some people going through pain. And you you just you just want to take it away. You just want to help alleviate it a bit. And and it's hard, but that's the learning. I I'm it's a constant thing for me to keep putting myself. So one of the things I decided last year was not to give advice. I'm not taking I'm not taking it all because I still find myself doing it, but to a large extent, it has worked. It's worked. I'm I'm able to have very extremely hard conversations with people without getting triggered.

Inherited Limits And Rethinking Self‑Awareness

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Yeah. Yeah, because once you're once once you once anything can trigger you in any conversation, especially when you have noticed a pattern, and then like you said, enrichment comes in and all that. Okay, let's step away from our professions for a bit. Right. So um chapter four then goes into love and being held, and you talk about the body's wisdom here. So like I said, I want to I have let me tell you the truth. I have three questions per chapter, but I'm choosing because I really really want this to be compact so that we're not talking too much, and then people can listen and then go get a book. If the buddy could speak in full sentences, what do you think it would be saying to us?

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Definitely will tell people different things, different people different things, but there's a problem. But a lot of us would be living in shame.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Ah do you want us to go into that? No, no, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

So that's that's that's what it is. We would be so shamed by what our bodies are telling us. Uh and I don't know. Maybe it's a good thing that it doesn't speak to us loudly.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yeah, in words, no, it does speak loudly. It does speak loudly. That headache might not just be that you have a headache.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

It's that maybe in words is the better, maybe words is a better way to use it, you know. But people that think your words, but again, just understand that what we're saying is it's just good that the body is not vocal, vocal. That's the word, it's not vocal because a lot of us will be in trouble, it won't give us the rest.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Oh, we're already in trouble, Shah. We're already in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

I am hearing we will be in so much deep trouble. I know, so much deep trouble.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

If it if the body and it has his wisdom, and I think it's part of the wisdom that he has that he doesn't do that, yeah, yeah, and it just awareness, but you see, when it does come to that awareness, there's nothing you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

So I believe must be you must be you must be aware.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

There's nothing against it because your body will do the best if you if you keep pushing it, pushing it, just shut down. It's just it's it just shuts down. Come on. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

So you know this thing you said? Um I had when my father died, isn't it isn't my father's voice. When my father died, we we buried him two weeks after he died. So it was it was running on steroids between when he died and when we buried him. I I don't remember eating much. In fact, I don't remember eating, I remember eating just once. I knew I was eating something, but what it was, I mean I was in prison. Yeah, I was moving through all the motions of it. And the evening after we had buried him, the evening, my my waist, my back just shut down, just gave way. I was in bed for three weeks.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Oh, you don't want to hear you're not moving.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Three three weeks to to even you know how you just get up from the bed, it's a luxury. Get up for get just get what get what it would take you, it would take me 10 to 15 minutes to even be able to rule because the pain was singing orchestra and symphony in my head was horrible. And I and I knew that it was not just the work of you know all the things that we had to put together, it was also the fact that my body was I was not allowing myself to process what had just happened because of I was on steroids, and when the adrenaline drained, my body collected, it collected.

From Doing Connection To Being Present

SPEAKER_01 29:09

All right, let's move on to what it costs you when you're not self-aware. That's I mean, I'm adding my part to that chapter what it costs you, and the part that spoke to me is the self-abandonment part, uh another word that Toby and I have a wonderful relationship with abandonment. I said it right, abandonment, yeah. So, how do you know when helping others has crushed into self-abandonment?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

You won't accept yourself away. You won't know. How do you want to know? How do you want to know that being the one that they can always call at 2 a.m., 3 a.m., the one they can always talk to, but uh, you feel that it's because oh because I'm wise, that's why they can call me. I'm their friend. Because I'm always available than I'm not gonna be able to no no, you're not even thinking that. No, that's not you're not thinking that. You're not thinking because you're available, you're thinking because I'm their friend and they trust me, and I'm wise.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Let me flip that for you. Can I flip that for a moment? Permission to. So I think people do know that they just don't know that they are abandoning self. Yeah, they know that they are over functioning, they know that they're overextending, and that is why some people don't know. Oh, trust me. That is why when someone doesn't exactly reciprocate, it hurts because they feel that they are overextended, they feel like they're over during this. There's a compensation sink there, and it's because they had given to this person, so because that giving to one person and that person is not giving back, they then spread themselves thing looking for the person. I am guilty, so don't think I'm just I'm I was guilty. So you can name it abandonment, but most people don't know that. Yes, but I'm telling you that people do know just that, like you said, they can't name it, but I think people know, and that is why you go on socials in um uh um what was this one that is doing it now? Help, Chiefova. This one that is in there, nobody's coming to save you.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Do you I don't use the word, I don't know what it means.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Self-deprecating.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

I don't use it, it doesn't make any sense to me. It's I have people that have come to my help so many times. I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Let's because you because that nobody's coming to save you. Are we I'm not even good, I'm not there's no self-made anybody like are we in we're individuals, yes, but we're made to live in unity not uniformly.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

You can't survive without community. Alright, yeah. So uh again, I try not to be very heavy on words, but try. When we talk about abandonment, it's just like they abandon a baby.

unknown 32:30

Right?

SPEAKER_00 32:30

The baby has an awareness of that abandonment.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

The baby is not meal.

The Body’s Wisdom And Shutdown

SPEAKER_00 32:35

I'm just no, not you. No, no, no, no, no, not you. So I'm saying I'm saying I'm trying to help help you see my from my perspective what that word is. A baby is not you, you can abandon an adult. Do you understand why? Because an adult has a will and they can live that will, right? You can abandon relationships, you can live those things, but you can't abandon an adult because an adult can but you can abandon a child, and I think that it's that um lack of awareness of a baby, of who or what the baby is, and the capacity, because again, they don't have much, but if you have, but as the child grows, and the baby grows and has more awareness of I can do this for myself, I can do this for myself. If there's food in the house, the child won't feel abandoned, that there's that there's not they've not given them the child food. You just go to the fridge and pick bread. Do you understand? And I think as we grow in awareness, the things that, for example, I used to think that I always have to respond to people who are talking to me. Because why not? That's how you were raised. You woke on the Mumbasaroni. And that's why I said growing old, growing old is not a bad thing. Because now you can be talking to me and I'm like, I have nothing to say to you, and I don't care what your age is. If I don't have anything to say to you, I'm not going to say anything. Because you've had time to process what is it you're talking about. I've not had time to process anything that you're saying. And you expect me to say something to you that I don't have any right now. I can come back and say, okay, I thought about what you said, this is how I feel. But at that moment, why are we like that? Why do we always say something, say things to younger people and expect to get the feedback from them? Like, I was having a conversation with my friend yesterday. I was telling me about his younger brother. So, okay, let me talk to this boy. Do you know what? Boy is just about 15. I could just have as called him and say, Alpha. I've not spoken to the boy before. Alpha. I could I could have done that. That's what most people would do. Like to correct the guy, put him on his street and narrow paths. I just sent him a text. This is who I am. I got your number from your brother. Can we talk? That's very strange. Who asks a 15-year-old, can we talk? Who does that? Right. Do you know we ended not talking? End up not talking. Because after I said, Hey, my phone is back. Okay, can you still talk? He said, I don't have data. I told his brother, he said he doesn't have data. After he's got data for him, he now said, So, what do you want to talk to me about? Can we see a voice note in my head?

SPEAKER_01 35:19

I wanted to tell him voice note on the call.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Like, I wanted to say to him that you knew you didn't want to have a conversation, but you said you didn't have data. But I kept, I would type it, I'll delete it. Because that was going to make me feel good. It wasn't necessarily to make to make it make me feel good. At the end of the day, we didn't have the conversation, but I told him between you and I, you're safe and myself. We know what we are doing, and I left it at that good night. How many people do that? We're adults, he's young enough to be my son.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Yeah, so so yeah, I can answer that for you quite easily. Um, I do I I uh no. I'm I because it's not at home, I can't tell the story because it's something that just happened, and I'll need to spend my child something to share there with my children so you know that. Um, but I think that because personally, personally, um, and I don't want us to go into that because that five language five love language thing is good. I'm not saying it's not good though, it's good, it's great actually, it's great. But people I think they're using it as a crutch, you know, and like you said in the book, um, it's a spectrum. We are all on that spectrum, depending on the phase that you are. That you score five on here and all of that. No, there's gonna be a time that you want to be touched, there's gonna be a time that you want to be helped there's gonna be that you're scared and all that, you know. But I think the reason most people would respond to that would not respond the way you responded to that 15-year-old, is because again, we live in a culture where a child is seen, not heard. I've you should see the responses to I well, I see the responses to when you see something, even if Nigerians, Africans, blacks, whatever, who do who are having a relationship with their children, and 80% of Nigerians on in the comment section are saying, ah, we've got it back to come. Yeah, so you can't, you know, and you you know that everybody on this comment section needs a hug, just like a hug, you know, and all that. So I think it's it's it's such a conditioning. It's interesting. I've said things about my parents that in this conversation that would allude that, you know, but it's interesting that it is the same woman who who had that perspective. Who told me after I had done something? My daughter had done something, and I was reacting the way she had reacted when I was younger. She was the one who told me and sat me down and said, Oh, she toy you can't raise a child the way I raised you, and I'm still human. And she says that God, I'm like, this is the woman that used to shout, spoil the rod, spare spend the rod. And she said to me, though it was in Europe, but I'll say it essentially how she said it in English. She said, she that have I seen a shepherd actually um um shepherd its flock? I'm like, no, and she said, Oh well, they never use the rod to hit the ship, they use the rod to guide the ship, and then the ship then begins to the shepherd then begins to use his rod to tap. So the ship knows the voice, the sign. So the question is when you ask me, does your child know your voice? That was the turning point of my parenting journey. Let's take a deep break. Just to breathe, actually, because this is quite heavy, and I really want us to hit on the 12 chapters as much as we can. If you're listening, even if you're driving or you're taking a work, walk. We're taking a walk. Um just relax your shoulders, read, let it soften, soften your jaws, soften your eyes, the space between your ears. If you're seated, allow your body to just settle a little deeper where you are. Take a very slow breath in and even slower out. You're not fixing anything, you're not trying to understand. It's just to notice that your body is doing right now as you listen. If there's any tightening anywhere, let it go. If it feels safe, place your hand in that place where you feel the tightening. It's just acknowledging it. You don't need to have words for it yet. Awareness is already enough. One more breath together.

Self‑Abandonment And Overfunctioning

SPEAKER_00 41:07

You feel like it? Yeah. I don't think I've ever been like this on any other podcast. It's a very it's just very small.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Oh goodness. Okay, so let's find words as you say in chapter seven. You talk about language as a gateway to healing. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Name it. That's why they give people people names so that when you thief. Yes, sorry, same thing with name, and it doesn't it doesn't necessarily have you you can come up with these names, but just have your own definition, have the definitions that those names represent so that when you deal with them, you're appropriately naming them for yourself. It can it doesn't have to be community naming, right? It can be personal.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

We're not calling people to come and eat.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

No, no, it's just oh, so again, um, I'm usually not angry, right? Not that I'm not angry, I'm usually not angry because I've learned how to use pissed, upset, annoyed, peeved.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

All the synonyms that comes.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

But they're there's a this that's a range. Anger is the extra there's even there's even incense right. And words have a way of putting our emotions in that state.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

So I'm going to I'm going to wear my shoe of on linguistics, and I'm not going to dwell on it because we need to go to eight, nine, ten, eleven, and twelve. I I think that the the the most especially for dual language speakers, what do they call those people that speak two languages or that speak very lingual? Thank you, they're multilingue people. And that and English is English is um like a means of communication, you know. Um and they have like we have Europe, for example, that is steeped in meaning. Steeped in meaning. We settle as Europe people, for example, because then again, I'm very confident with the European language. As a people, we stick, we and we and then we begin to struggle because um uh anger, for example, anger, for example, is it's deeper. And you cannot find the and there is there are no there are no absolute synonyms or uh uh transliteration in any language in the world, you know, and then we begin to struggle. Like when I say bele, bele is no sorry, but that is what necessarily means sorry, but it doesn't necessarily mean sorry, but if I'm going to interpret someone, I'm gonna have to say sorry because that is what I think is the equivalent in language, in English language, so I think that's where the challenge is because most people, most of us um grew up in the Yoruba culture, but we lived in the English language, right? Do you understand? Right. Alright, so you know if you get me there, I'm not solid.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

But it's good for you to explain to people who are listening because it helps. Um again, I I believe that most of the challenge we have is because we don't we don't understand words and the power of words.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Yes, we don't.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

I think that's where most of our problem because if you understand that if I say I'm upset, I'm going to have a different emotional state from you who is saying you're angry. You would begin to use, you learn to begin to use words differently.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

It feels like your baby will say on if you um um odajomo it's different than omotoshonu, it's different than just that, you know, because we do not even have access to the culture, the language of the culture that we were trained in, but we have access to the language of the culture that we live in. So we are right in what we're right in that transition, and then that just gives us mental imbalance. Yeah, it's very yeah, the timing change is not timing. Oh, creating and holding spaces for others, how do we stay present with someone else's discomfort without making it about our own anxiety? That part stood out for me because again, as a coach, you know, I told you that this is a coach's, you know, as a coach and as a counselor, it's a place that we find ourselves constantly and mentally we have to remind ourselves, you know? Um, so for for non-coaches who are not doing this as uh as a profession, as a practice, what would you say it's um uh in how to stay present as someone's discomfort? Why you know be self-aware?

SPEAKER_00 47:08

That's that's the but that's this that if you don't even know that you need you don't need to see anything in call. I was telling this same woman I told you about, um, who's that people come and greet and in in just because they just can't keep quiet, just can't shut up. They'll see I move alone. Like, like, how like how just can you just shut up? Can you just be quiet? When my father died, I'm people coming to the science. I say, um, telling my mother, um, I'm like, I give them the eye. Like, don't mmm. I don't want that the old husband died. It's funny, she's known for more than half a life. Yeah, and you're telling her now, please she'll become, and then some people go and they start talking and she starts crying. Let her be. She hasn't cried now, at least. Maybe she at least that we should see, maybe she still misses him and all she talks about him, but it's not like when when he just died. So, why are you telling me now, isn't it? And it's because we're not comfortable with just being there.

Language As A Gateway To Healing

SPEAKER_01 48:17

You know, the the best funeral message I've ever heard was at a church last year. Uh, an extended family member had lost her husband, and this pastor, oh my goodness, yes, he's a pastor, and he's a retained church. So you can imagine how shocked I was. And she said, he said, please no one should tell the the bereaved how that doesn't make any sense. And you go ejaculation caught off, she don't allow them, don't allow them to internalize something that should be externalized. Allow them, please don't go near them and say be strong. No. I see this was a young pastor, and I was so I was well, I I saw the pastor, like I walked up to the pastor, and I can't even like like I after this, my brother was looking at me. So I walked up to the pastor, I said, Thank you. And the guy was like, I said, thank you for your message, like thank you, and I'm not sure he understood where I was coming from because I'm not even sure that the people there really did understand, but even if people will I know that there will still be a loading big bass and a loaded jazz that will go and still sing, but at least do you understand somebody in the church is speaking to it. Okay, let's go to let's let's just move to the ripple effects, which is a chapter. So, for those just gone by the book, I knew I were going to get here. So, what comes after beyond love language, uh beyond um holding yourself first and then holding space for others comes beyond love language, holding through difficulty and uh the ripple effect. So, this is the question that I'm gonna ask to tune that out for you. Um, if this book could leave listeners with one embodied question, what should that question be? I thought to read When Love is not enough.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

I think the is multifaced, but I think the preface to whatever the question always be is am I am I being am I leaving? Am I happy? Am I joyful?

SPEAKER_01 51:11

Am I me?

unknown 51:12

Am I me?

SPEAKER_00 51:14

I'm not sure most people can answer this question. Most people are not happy, they are explained people when people ask questions like how are you? They're not waiting for you to really respond. They just want you to say, Oh, I'm fine, right? Because it satisfies their performance.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

I'm laughing. Um December 23rd, would that be? I went out with my husband and then I went to the toilet. Yeah, and the lady, the one of the cleaners that was looking so I'm like, How are you? Then I turned back. And she just I just held her. I didn't even want to hear because I was not even the head space to be in anybody, jumpstand. I just because I knew that she just wanted to.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Nobody sees her.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

I just turned and just like how I said it the second time.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Probably has a husband.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

But you'll grip. Me tough, but but you know, at that point I was not in the head space to listen, but I just held her, let her to grab her.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

You think you didn't listen, but you that's what she needed. She just needs somebody to be present, and that was what you give her.

SPEAKER_01 52:38

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

That's the holding, yeah. That's the same, that's the safety, that's the space.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

Okay, so you won't believe how long we've spoken for, but I'm not going to I'm not going to let you go because I said you should not touch this. So pick one.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Okay, you want to read if I can?

SPEAKER_01 53:01

Ah, okay. I will help you read it. Okay. Are you ready? Would you rather date someone you met online or go on a blind date? I know the answer.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

I think I know the answer, but online blind date. Is it is a date? There's no compulsion to continue after that. I was so sure I was so great to know your answer. No, like it's just it did now.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

Right, just go and enjoy that person for that moment.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

That that moment.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

So the question I think is actually the the location online or or the is it location or the circumstances. Do you want to go with someone you met online? Or you want to go on a blind date that flights up?

SPEAKER_00 53:58

It doesn't it doesn't make any difference. It doesn't make any difference. Let me go decide with TikTok. But that's what it is. Eventually, how to decide if the person you met online works for you, or the that's so people used to get married without just getting to the altar and that's arranged marriages.

SPEAKER_01 54:23

Yeah, yeah, and it used to last longer than the people that date you can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

So thank you very much, Allah, for doing this with me. Uh I am so so so great. I'm I'm I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you because I know how much you struggled to write this. So I'm so totally, and I'm not gassing you up, and I'm and and I know you know I'm not gassing you up. I'm so soon to that. Come on, I'm a good girl. I'm I'm so so so proud of you, and um, I'm wishing you all the best with this book, and I'm waiting for my father's voice. I hope it comes out. It will come out. I can't be in your life and the book enough. I'm just saying, thank you guys for listening to Alana. Yes, we have this is how it trust me, this is how we talk even off the mic. Um, but before we wrap up today, remember, I would you know I always leave you with a question, but I'm leaving you with just one question today. Um, who do you feel safest exhaling around? And what is different in their presence, all right? Um sit with that question. Of course, you don't have to have to answer it now, but take your time, take your time. You deserve to know where you're safe or where you are the safest. Alright, remember you're not broken for wanting more. I got that from the book. You're not ungrateful for naming what's missing. Again, I got that from the book. Sometimes healing doesn't begin with answers, it begins with permission. Permission to feel, permission to pause, permission to suffer. So give yourself that permission today this week, anytime you're listening to this, this year, next year, 10 years now. Give yourself permission to feel, to pause, and to suffer. Thank you for listening to this conversation with us today. But gentle with yourself as you go. Of course, you know by now, if you don't, but that we have our WhatsApp space for mindfully with me shade now. It's not a space uh for judgment or a space to teach or anything like that. Nah, nah, nah. You're only welcome. You're not only, let me not say only, you're welcome to join if and only if it feels supportive to your process of being to being. There is no destination to journey to self, there's no destination to journey to anything that is self, it's a continuum. The link is in the episode notes. Whether you join the conversation or you want to keep it private. Remember, your healing does not need an audience. Stay mindful, stay human, stay becoming. Love yourself, love your neighbor, love your country above all of this. Finish it now. Love God, he's the essence of your being. I am Uluat Mishi Olanda to get a copy of When Loved Isn't Enough and What You Need to Feel Home by Xeon Daudu. Um, check the show notes uh the link to get the soft copy and how to get a hard copy. Okay, or you can go to all his um socials for Dao La on TikTok and Instagram.