You Are Human Before You Are A Man.

The world is loud right now: war, economic stress, nonstop online gender battles, and the quiet feeling that everyone is bracing for impact. So we take a different approach. We pause, breathe, and talk honestly about men’s mental health, not as a trend, but as a survival issue and a relationship issue that touches families, marriages, friendships, and whole communities.

My guest, Elishius Olalua, helps me name the thing many men can feel but struggle to explain: a script of strength that gets handed to boys early and enforced later through shame, status, and silence. We unpack what “being strong” is often taught to mean in Nigerian and wider African homes, why vulnerability can feel expensive, and how men end up saying “I’m okay” even when they are overwhelmed. We also explore the hidden cost of tying a man’s worth only to what he provides, and why provision has to include the state of your mind, spirit, and emotional health not just money.

We go deeper into emotional literacy: why anger becomes the “allowed” emotion, why many men lack language for what they feel, and what it takes to ask for help without feeling like you’re failing. We end with a grounded takeaway, one reflective question for your journal, and a practical invitation to create safer spaces for boys and men to be fully human.

If any part of this resonates, subscribe, share it with someone you care about, and leave a review so more people can find these healing conversations. What would change in your home if men had real permission to feel?

Transcript

June Check In And Why This Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hi mindful partners, it is June. Yes, half of the year. Too many things have happened this year. The wars, the rumors of war, the world's economy, then particularly Nigeria's economy. Fates being questioned and the debate about cultural renaissance almost everywhere in the world. I feel like we are being attacked in all areas of our well-being, you know, a spiritual well-being, a financial well-being, a social well-being, and all the shells. Then comes June, which is men's mental health month. And with everyday gender debate online all over, it is almost certain that the awareness it will get will be minimal, if at all. And honestly, I understand. I understand, I truly do. But my position is we cannot keep beaming our searchlights on the things that have gone bad, or it's going bad on both sides of the gender without creating spaces to have healing conversations that will help regenerate and rewrite history in our lifetime. If you've been a mindful partner long enough, you know that we take men's mental health seriously here. And this month, uh we will be talking with different men, having conversations really, not talking to, we'll be having conversations with them. And I am truly happy that my brother is sitting across from me right now. Yes, seating. But before we start this conversation, let's do a quick check-in with our body. Take a deep breath in, a deep cleansing breath through your nose. And you know why? When your body is settled, it's easier for you to accept any story that has been told you. So without much ado, I have Elishius Olalua, a Zeke here. I would like to introduce her because Koyemi. Welcome, sir.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

So I I don't know where to start, right? Because of the way you went about, but truly and truly and surely I'm privileged and I'm excited to be here. Oh. Right. Privileged because um fairly recently I became I began to come into the awareness that um everything

A Body Pause And Meeting Elishius

SPEAKER_02 3:15

about our lives is a privilege. Right. And you that you get to experience anything is a privilege. Good, bad, ugly. Ugly, yeah. It's a privilege, right? And then what you do with that privilege is what matters after. But the fact that you have you get to experience it, yeah, or enjoy it, yeah, or share it, it's a privilege. So thanks for the privilege of having me here. Um, okay, and we have not started, okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Go ahead, go ahead. No, no, nothing, nothing oh, nothing, yeah. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

But yeah, um I'm pretty truly privileged and genuinely excited to be here. Um to dissect, to have conversations. And you said you're not talking to your no no no, we are having a conversation. Yeah, we're having a conversation on the subject matter. Um, let's hope that I have one or two things inside my small brain box. I say small because you know sometimes I put it side by side, I try to put it side by side. The brain box of the universe. I realize how minute we are in trouble, don't we?

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

We realize how minute what it is we have and know is how it appeals significantly to who God is, what He is, what He has and stuff for us. And so, yeah, let's see if I have it.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

You know, when you sat down, I was I was I was anti rights will like since Let's interite J are talking, these are people that um okay, so we a lot of a lot of people on this show, you know that I'm a Christian, right? Um, I'm a faith person, and I rarely talk about it. But you see, Allah is here and is taking me there. And I was telling you about antiright and how I I mentioned enter right because of what you just said now, the uh what we know, the brain box thing that you just said. In in the larger scheme of things, it's really, really tiny. And when I was listening to Anti Wright and John yesterday, I was like, oh no, I wish I had known this when I was younger. So uh um, so let's get started. Um, again, his name is Alyssius Laulua. I I would I would pind up between the two names all through the season.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Because they have they have they have very many.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Yeah, oh yes, true. Thank you. What does Alyssius mean?

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Okay, so um again, but not fairly recently. This has been on for maybe about five or six years, but I've been having battle with traditional people who just decide and say that they will call you what it is they want to call you. All right. But very recently, sometimes when they call it, that's why I know you're what they're saying. How can you see somebody and call them Laulu? And I ask myself, what does Laulu mean? What's the meaning?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yeah, no, Laulua. They didn't say all. Okay, they just say Laulu, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Yeah, okay, gotcha, gotcha. People thought about the meanings of the name before they gave them to us. All right, all right.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Oh, you know I love my name, and that's the only name I have.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

So Elishius actually means God is my salvation. Oh, and it wasn't until the later part of my years in university that I came to understand the meaning and to love the meaning of the name. In fact, I stopped using Laulova for a bit, and I was like, Oh, my name is Elishius, because of what I felt he held to me in that season.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Season, uh right.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

That God is my salvation, so um, I can always run to him, I can always get what is I want, right? In the ambit of what he has provided, because he is my salvation. So Lauluva, of course, is a laula. I love it too. Yeah, so I oscillate, so it'll be great if you decide to oscillate.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

You people that have the privilege of two names, I don't know if I envy you. I just love Olua to Michael like beautiful name about it. It's a prayer, it's it's a prayer, it's a stigma. It's a stigma. It's a proclamation, it's a proclamation, it's a lot of things. And I remember my father, you know, when I was on radio, and I say to Michelle Makwelou, the first day I said to Mishama Kwelu, he called and said, No, that's not your name. I'm like, what? So your name is Uru White Shi. And I'm like, oh, okay. And I've been inside, you know. So let's go started in this conversation. It's gonna be layered. Um, and when we're talking, it's always very difficult for a lot of people, and even me that have been in the world of men's mental health for about four years now, it's still very difficult for me to um to scratch the surface or to break down the complexity of masculinity, right? Uh especially in these times that we have words like misogyny, flo uh chauvinism or patrichy um being thrown everywhere, you know? It's very difficult for me to have some conversations because the old are stacked against men and the olds are also stacked against women. But for now, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a woman, and I can tell you stories that um oh okay, let's not even go there. So, when did you

When “Be Strong” Becomes A Script

SPEAKER_01 8:45

um first become aware that being strong was expected of you as a man?

SPEAKER_02 8:56

This feels like a therapy session.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

It is not, it's just it's not, you know, every every man, like I have a son, and I've had to I used to tell my dad, okay, no, don't tell, don't say that to my son. And so I I look at him also when he he's trying to be, and I'm like, like I'm like any man who comes to this table. That's the first question I can ask. Because I I look at this 15-year-old boy who I believe is well has a you know an enabling environment, and he still feels like it needs to be strong. So hit me with that.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Okay, so um, I think that when I first became aware that there was a rule script to be acted, as far as strength is concerned, right? Was um, I think it was after my university. That's when I think I came to that awareness that hey dude, there is a demand, there's a role that there's a script that has been prepared for you that you are not aware of, and you need to play it well, you need to act it out well. You cannot be seen to be otherwise. If not, you'll miss out on certain privileges again of a man, of a man, you miss out on certain experiences of a man because you decided to be human. Right. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 10:44

I'm trying to, I'm working with you.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

You are okay. So you know how the it's a cliche, but it's you still hear you still hear people say cliches are clichés because they are true. Yeah, you still hear Umma say tell to a baby boy, oh more corinier, you are in for those who are you you're a man, you you should not cry, you should be strong. The boy hit his leg on the ground or he fell down. Yeah, yeah, and he has to express an emotion because of the pain he feels, and you tell him to shut that out because a script has been prepared and written before he came into the scene. Come on, so that awareness you know was primarily dawning on me after university. Um, I started seeing people do certain things and I wanted to join them, and I'm realizing that I've been too dude, you have been too emotional. You have been too you've been too unsolidious. Yes, you're a sensitive man. You are too you are too you are too unsolid. Do you understand? Right, that that awareness, you know, and then I began to say, okay, what truly does it mean to be a man? Right? I I had to start exploring it. That was when my love with imagery came into being, my love with identity came into being with the concepts of imagery, the concepts of identity, the concepts of self-awareness. I began to delve dive and say, okay, this is what people expect and what they think, but I'm I'm not I wasn't dropped from the sky. However, it is I came, what was the expectation? What was the design? What should it actually be? Right. So I think that's what I'm found an answer to that. I realized that it's actually a progressive journey.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

All right.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

You it's it's it's a it's an endless marathon, if I could say it that way. You you can't possibly arrive. You get to faces, you understand certain things, you take that knowledge, you apply it, you use it, you discover some other things, you learn, you drop off some other things you had picked up. It's it's a journey you we never can fully arrive at. You know.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Alright, so what you said about, you know, um you it dawning on you after university um that you were not man enough um would make me ask. So when you were growing up, what the what does strength look like to you around the men around you?

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Oh, growing up, strength meant that you should be able to fetch water, strength meant that you needed to be able to watch over your siblings, strength meant that you needed to provide. So I'm starting from while I was young to seeing older men. Strength meant that you are supposed to be able to provide, strength meant that you're supposed to be able to talk to ladies. Oh, right. Oh, wow. Um, amongst ladies. Strength meant that you should be able to have, you know, even tried to. Can I be explicit? Yes, you should have even tried to have sex a couple of times. Strength meant that you should have should have tried a couple vices. Smoked, drunk, right? Handful stuff. Strength meant that you um you had found ways to start making money for yourself outside of what it is your parents

What Strength Looked Like Growing Up

SPEAKER_02 14:20

could provide for.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Oh wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Strength meant that um you could take decisions for yourself and face the consequences without parental guidance. Parental guidance, yes. So strength meant all that you're thinking.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Yeah, and yeah, I'm thinking. And and and the reason I'm thinking is I went to a military school, it was a boarding school, and um I'm I'm looking at you're talking and I'm seeing all my male friends. Do you understand? Oh, I see. Yeah, you're you're you're you're seeing all my male friends, and I'm understanding. Does that make sense? I'm understanding why you know, oh, oh, oh, do you understand? As you as you were saying, Oh, so this is why this was like this.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

This is why this guy did this, this is why they express it.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Yeah, yeah, and and and and oh, okay, I can go there. And most and it might sound very pacifist when I'm saying, most importantly, what you just said now um makes sense to me why I was sexually molested at your age. It does not make it right. So let me say that now before feminists and all the swell, it does not make it right, but it makes me understand that a man was not necessarily or a boy was not necessarily um raised in a particular way, he just feels like he has to, like you said, play a script. Yes, and since no one is showing him how to properly play their script, he takes it on himself. Is that does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Yeah, that makes sense, and that that's of course why I said that the concept of imagery began to mean so much to me. Um interesting, just yesterday I was um with my friend, right? I just got to see him, and then I was holding my glasses in a particular kind of way. And as I opened the door of the car and I got in, I just told him, I said, Bobo, didn't it just dawned on me that this is exactly how my dad used to hold his glasses? Like it dawned on me in that moment the way I was holding it was exactly the same way he holds it. And I realized the image was so strong, I found myself doing it without making an effort to do it. So a lot of us have acted scripts because we just saw it so and then we didn't have the strength to question and to ask.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Is it strength or the enabling environment to question?

SPEAKER_02 17:18

I think it's a combination of both. I think it's a combination of both. Some of us had this strength, but we didn't have the enabling environment. Some of us had the enabling environment, but we didn't have the strength because we were seeing it was like what you were seeing and what you were experiencing were two different things, and then you are not sure what exactly. You were in transition, mental transition. Yeah, if I say this, is this not what I will get? If I don't say this, will I get this? You know, that that sort of confusion, right? So, yes, I think it's a combination of both enabling environment and then um um the strength too, right? Um, I don't know where again we is. I was talking recently to say something around, oh yeah, it was around fatherhood, right? And how um we were we having considered the fact that some people had really great relationships with their fathers, and then for some of us it was different, and we always craved, oh, it was also yes to conversation. I remember I remember the scenario, right? We're talking about how somebody was a father figure for someone and how that person just defaulted. He's lost his father a long time ago. None of his mother's brothers, you know, stood in that gap, or his mother's sister's husbands, you know, plucked that gap for him, but he was in an entirely different country, and then he saw um what you call it, he met a man, he was dating a man's daughter, and a man saw that oh, there's a gap missing, and the man decided to fill the gap, and then the guy is now defaulting to that man and it's imbibing certain things, positive things, of course, right? And we said that everybody looks for that figure. If it's missing somewhere, they look for someone to pluck that gap. And the moment you someone plucks that gap for them, they default to what and defer to the person.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

All right, so a lot, right? Yep, it's a lot, but I want I want to I'm enjoying this conversation to be honest, and I I I also don't want us to um go past 40 minutes of the month so that we don't talk over the head of people. The reason is not because I you know, God, I you know me now, you're talking about me. I we talk forever, you know, but because I want it to be I want to be concise and to be honest, and I also want to layer it. And the question you just answered now is going to lead me to do you think men perform I'm okay? Do I think men perform I'm okay even when they are overwhelmed? Oh yes, you don't even have to think about because there is a script that you must act out, whether you like it or not.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

You cannot afford to be seen as vulnerable. You cannot afford it, it's expensive, it's costly. What's the what's the what is what's the how much is that? The question is you don't get you don't get to come to the table of men. Oh wow. You don't get you you we can't ask you for certain things, we can't we can't defer to you, we can't we can't have you have the supposedly deep

The “I’m Okay” Mask And Its Cost

SPEAKER_02 20:40

men conversations. Meanwhile, they are dying. Meanwhile, they are weathering inside. You know what it means to wither from inside, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

And you can't you can't have and then and then because they're withering inside, they then begin to present in certain ways in anger and all anger. That's that's that's just it because they've always be cause and effect.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

So we we you see men you see men again fairly recently, um fairly recently, right? I I began to say to myself, dude, it's okay to cry. You see, men say they only cry when they're in the presence of God the Father, when the worship is heightened and the chords are striking deep and the lyrics is deep is deep in and it's drawing you. You see, that's when men lay flat on the floor, whether it's a rocked floor or not. You see some men laughing with white agbada. You know why I said that and tears streaming down their eyes.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

But when they are faced with the vicinities of life, right? They hide the pain. Oh, yeah. It is well, I'm fine. It's okay. Um, I'll be fine. I'll be okay. They don't again I had a conversation yesterday. I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah, yeah, because you were coming here, God had to prepare you.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Maybe yeah, maybe God had to prepare me because yeah, I don't understand why all of the conversations happen yesterday. So this guy is my friend, he's a first son, and for whatever reason, when he called me yesterday, okay, I'd missed this gone. I think I called back, and I'm like, hey, how's your dad? And it goes on a long like yeah. Monologue. Like, why did I even ask about his dad? I said, It just hit me, and I thought, I'll ask, like, how's your dad? I said, So, my dad is lonely. Dad lost his mom a couple of years back. The man has a woman he likes in a particular part of Nigeria, he doesn't want to go there, um, he wants to stay in Lagos where he is and stuff, and he's lonely, he's tired, he's dealing with certain sicknesses. And me, I'm thinking that those sicknesses are symptomatic of loneliness, not necessarily because he's on healthy, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? So, and my guy is saying, But see, my younger brother is facing this, and the one who is literally doing this for everybody, and I don't have anybody to talk to, and you know, I just have to show up. And I don't know, and I'm like, hmm, this is a time bomb here, yeah, right. Because he has to act the man part, he cannot be seen to say, I cannot attend to this, I cannot take care of this, I cannot be responsible for this. Right, and that's all that's unfortunately the script, you know, part of the script I talked about earlier that's been prepared for us even before we came on the scene. I have a friend in the UK, and my friend will say to me, Ola Udwa, um, you cannot handle this right now. And it's important to be able to say you cannot handle this right now, and don't feel bad that you're not able to handle this. Right now, you are human and you've got just one life.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

With the comfort I comfort I was comforted with, I was able to talk about the ministry of reconciliation.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Um it's it's quite unfortunate that that's what it is currently. But I think, like, you know, you said something about where we started this conversation before we started, it's talked about regenerating and rewriting history. Rewriting history, and that is really critical. Again, I believe that these things are not random. Yeah, I was having a conversation with my beautiful wife this morning, and then I said to her, Um, I said, I think I just want to start focusing on boys now. Yeah, and she was like, let's start what we need to do because I'm realizing that if we don't do something, it's gonna be I think people doing things, absolutely there are, but we also need people to do things from the place of the pain they've experienced and the comfort they've experienced to help other young people navigate their current situation.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

You know, a fight for life um last year, um so there's a part of a fight for life where we all female volunteers step out and um just the psychiatrist and the men speak, but there was a man, um that part is not recorded because we yeah, it's not recorded, just allow for men to have a one-on-one conversation. My son was in there last year, and um, but before before we before that session, when um we were having the panel session with a psychiatrist and Emmanuel um um Emmanuel F Young, Bright F Young, and then he, you know, this guy picks up the phone and says that now that he has a son, he's a f he didn't know that the reason he was afraid to leave his son with people was because he was molested. So it was not even he didn't he he could not leave his child with his parents, and the mother was like, ah, wait a minute. So the question he was asking, like, I could you when you couldn't watch over me, why should I leave my child for you? It was the first time in his 30 years that he was talking to his parents about it, you know. So, but I didn't know what happened during the conversation, and then when we're going on with my son, I'm like, So, how was the fight for life? What do you think? And said, It's where men talk. So, what did you think? And they're like, No, I can't talk to you, so I can't only talk to you. And they're like, Ah, nice, like my son really like, no, no, no, it's only for men. There's a reason you guys, and that really made me feel good. Like, okay, it's starting from somewhere. Yeah, so let's let's let's continue this conversation. Are you ready for this? Yeah, let's go. All right, have you had seasons? Of course, with all that we've said right now, I think I know the answer to this, but I still need to ask you have you had seasons where you felt you could not afford to fall apart because too many people depended on you.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Yes. I'm in one currently. I'm a one currently. Um it started in November last year. I got news that my my dad was ill and he was carry ill. Right. And um he had not I had not in my over 30 years of knowing him, he had not been to the hospital more than to the best of my than once, and it's gonna be I think if he's not 70 this year, it's gonna be 79. The reason why I say I think is because you know all those people that were born in those days, they didn't get all of those records right now. So all right. So I had to make some decisions about a week ago or two weeks ago to say, you know what, um, we need to change your mode of treatment because we need to deal with this stuff. We think they are mismanaging. And in the middle of that, I was also dealing with stuff myself. I'm dealing with work, I'm dealing with concerns I have about ministry, and I don't have answers for them. And of course, a new newly married. Of course, I'm I'm so I'm I'm dealing with that, and I have to be strong for myself, my siblings, my spouse, and everybody in the church. Yeah, so I'm in one right now, if that answers the question.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

So, what do men then lose when they believe their value only exists in what they provide?

SPEAKER_02 29:32

That's why they drive themselves drive themselves into the ground early. So remember I talked about imagery, identity, self-awareness. The moment I came to terms with the fact that it is what I have I can give. If I'm healthy, then I can give health. If I'm unhealthy, I will give out unhealthiness. Because provision cannot just be sacrosantly tied to finances. Provision is the entirety of who you are, what you represent, what you have on the inside. Provision will be your

More Than Money Redefining Provision

SPEAKER_02 30:20

mental state, provision will be your spiritual state, provision will be your financial state, your intellectual state. So if all of those things are deficient and unhealthy, that's the same thing you will provide, consciously or unconsciously. So that's why we are the providers already, man. We may not have money now. In my early marriage, there was a period. Now my wife got money.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

This early that he's talking about I never reached three years ago. Yeah, yeah, it's early.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

In the early days, right? There were a couple of months that now my wife got money. She was working entering to the house. The house. Not because I wasn't making money, but because I needed to fix certain wrong decisions I'd made. And I need to use the money to do that. Will I does that stop me from being the man or the man of the house? Unfortunately, we don't have curriculum today in Christian circles where you are told and thought that you would have the seasons, and you need to be able to navigate it with wisdom and with sense. So, yeah, if what you are you provide who you are and what you have.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

You do. Let's take a mindful pause. Wherever you are right now, close your eyes. Imagine all the males, all the men in your life, your dad, your brothers, your lovers, your uncles, your sons, and take in a deep breath, cleansing breath, and send them a good will prayer. Breathe in and when you're letting out say a good will prayer again. All right. Let us continue.

Mindful Pause Sending Men Goodwill

SPEAKER_01 32:54

I still have a line. Okay, at least a lot of the stuff. I have a lot of elixirs in the studio. It's a lot of elas in here, huh? He's a very good friend. He's um the big brother.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Let me let me dogb. I'm a young boy.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

So can we move on? We're moving to homes now, you know. Let's turn our attention to homes in many African homes, and I think Asian homes, because when I see reels from Asians, I see that it looks like we're living the same um lives. Boys have thought endurance very early, like you said. What are the strengths and dangers of that conditioning?

SPEAKER_02 33:53

See, the fact is, um, it's a clear fact. We need to prepare men for responsibility. Because by design, men are supposed to be responsible. Yeah. So we can't take that away. We can't take that away. However, the concern is the nuances around the preparation, the condition. Um, I'm thinking of an illustration to use. I'm thinking of an illustration to use, right?

Conditioning Boys Endurance And Anger

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Um as a farmer, right? It is guaranteed that you must plant to harvest. Right. But if the conditions are not right for the planting, you'll harvest wrongly. You won't harvest. Or you just or you probably don't get weeds more than because you did not the conditions were not apt, were not appropriate, right? So it's important that you know, um, whilst we prepare men for responsibilities, right, we should do that within the ambit of the ideology of the fact that they are first human beings, they have emotions that should be acknowledged, they have um well, I think emotions some sums up the word, right? That should be you can't you can't discount it. You can't you can't shut it down. If you do shut it down, what you're doing is like you are comp you are compressing gas without an outlet. Someday it will sometime it will pop. So that's we can say you can't.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

It will consume everybody, including the child. So that's is it safe to say then that that is why anger is of a more acceptable amendment than sadness?

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Yes, because we didn't because anger, I I personally think that anger is compressed emotions, and so anger is just that big door that gives you the opportunity to express everything that you have compressed. Because if you are you know, in in times you say, Ah, can't suckamarin all right, that's the way they say you don't cry. We have when you are crying, you should see you should see. So, and seeing the senses not seen with your physical eyes, like reflect, you're able to, you know. So there's no way that I will be in a moment of whether it is I'm so overwhelmed and I'm crying, and I will not reflect, right? And think about certain things, right? So um if we allow avenues to express our emotions, the emotions of fear, the emotions of concern, the emotions of being overwhelmed, the emotions of weakness, right? If we allow avenues for healthy avenues for the expression of them, I think we'll reduce anger a lot more. I think we would. I think we would, yeah. You want to say something? Yeah, I want to ask a question.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

And I'm I'm thinking of how you will answer it, but I shouldn't be thinking of how you answer it. She let me answer now. Yeah, yeah, ask. Do you think that men have adequate language for how they feel emotionally?

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Some men, yes, maybe 0.5% of men have adequate vocabulary. Um, but I think 99.5% of men don't. Quite unfortunate. Can I go to church a bit?

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Oh preach, preacher.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

The when you look at Jesus' ministry, um, yeah, he had 12 disciples, notable ones, they were men. They were men, yeah. But you know that there were a lot of women of women. We had Joanna, Max Delaney. Lots of women. In today's nuances or

Do Men Have Words For Feelings

SPEAKER_02 38:30

contemporary times, you see plenty of women in church more than men. Right?

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Yeah, I don't have the empirical that are it's yeah, I don't I don't even think it's new. It it's cut to cruise all sanctuaries, actually.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Yeah, it feels like women have a deeper connection with whatever deities they are spiritual more than men. That's because women are allowed the avenue to express their emotions. In interacting and relating with God, you need to be in touch with your emotions. Scripture says we do not have an high priest who is not touched with the feelings, it didn't say with the actions, it didn't say with the doings, with the feelings of our infirmity, a feeling of our infirmity. So if we have more men get in touch with the emotional side, and do not feel like they just have to bulldoze everybody down because they were bulldozed and they were shot, maybe we'll be solving two-thirds of the world's problems. Just maybe.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Just maybe I'm working hard to keep this conversation because you're taking me to places apparently where you don't know what. Oh no, no, I know. You're apparently me to where I know um because I grew up with a man like that, you know, who who I knew to be sensitive, but he couldn't allow himself to be sensitive. Do you understand? Until um until he lost an 18-year-old son.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Until he lost his 18-year-old son.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Yeah, that's my brother. Um a lot of things had happened before then, you know, but the loss of my brother was what broke my father completely. And in when I say he never recovered, I mean he never recovered. Less than two years he left the house that he was born in. Like he moved anything anywhere that anything that could make him remember my brother. So it it takes

Grief Isolation And Hyperproductivity

SPEAKER_01 41:15

me to where I think we will wrap up this conversation. How men show up for themselves. Because you've you've seen men, this withdrawal, this overwork. Do you know the one that's more in the stretching to me? Sarcasm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This sarcasm, this isolation, this irritability, and the other one that is loaded, hyperproductivity. Yeah, if you're not like yeah, shocking. Yeah. So my question then would be how do you think men can have ask for help without feeling like they are failing?

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Every human being, regardless of gender, was designed to ask for help. Umfortunately, I'm at a loss of words on how to say this exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Try. I'll try and use the linguist, the one I was studying in school. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Asking for help is a strength.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

Asking for help is it stems from the fact that you know that you're strong enough for certain things and you're weak enough for other things.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Oh, say that again. Repeat!

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Asking for help is knowing that you're strong enough for certain things and you're weak enough for other things. You would actually be failing in not asking for help. Because those weak things could be your undoing,

Asking For Help Without Shame

SPEAKER_02 43:00

your greatest undoings. Oh yeah. So asking for help is by design for every human being on the surface of earth. You should ask for help. It's not weakness, it's not a sign of weakness to ask for help.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

You know, we could end this show right now, and I'll be fine. Bye. And Tumisha. I have to ask you Tumisha questions. Oh, yeah, let's go.

unknown 43:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

This is for you personally. Oh, I wish we could just end. Ah, that that's he entered me. What does rest feel like for you emotionally and not just physically?

SPEAKER_02 43:49

I'm still exploring the idea, the concept of rest because I don't know what rest is. I'm being honest.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Welcome to my world.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

I'm being honest. Um, but if I Attempt to um so that the singings will not say that I'm bantering them. But I think rest is having conversations. That scenario just jumped into my head. I think that God spent a good time thinking and walking. That whenever he wanted to rest, he came in the cool of the day to gist with Adam and Eve. So conversations.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

You know, you just put that picture in my head, it's not gonna go anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Conversations.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

And do you know?

What Rest Feels Like Emotionally

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Oh right, do you know that's how I actually feel rested?

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Having conversations lets you let off stuff.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

Oh, do you know?

SPEAKER_02 44:44

You go to places that you you talk about things that you naturally normally would not have spoken about, but talking about them just gives you some sort of relief that you cannot pick off of.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

Yeah, when I'm talking about life, for example, I could go on and on and I'm just okay. But when we're talking about you know, what are you saying? It's stressing me, like it's really stressing me over. Like, let's go shop, let's go shopping. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

What have you done for shopping? Let's just sit down and talk. Put our legs up, you know, and just have music playing in the ground and oh yeah, let's just talk.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Let's just talk. And finally, do you think many men are loved for who they are or for what they do?

SPEAKER_02 45:36

I hope I'm not gonna I hope I'm gonna say it right.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Yeah, say it anyway.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Say it anyway. Many men do I think many men are loved for what they do or for what they provide? Yeah, yeah. For what they do or for what? Who they are. Who they are. Men are more love for what they do than for who they are. Because that's the construct. But I hope we can change that narrative. I really do hope. I really do. Men can become we can begin to love men for who they are because men are allowed to be who they are. They have permission to feel. Yeah, they have permission to feel to express themselves, yeah. Just maybe we can change that.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Okay, before we go, Toby. Alright, so you need to play again. Sorry. Again, girl. Girls, some the cards.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

I set them up.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Okay, you're ready? Okay. Set up. It is not set up. Yeah. You have to know why. Oh, I really enjoyed this conversation.

unknown 46:48

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

I really did. I really did. That's what I deal with. Unfortunately nobody can see her. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Yeah.

unknown 47:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Am I asking?

SPEAKER_01 47:06

No, you just pick a card. Oh, I wish you had picked the other ones. Yeah, read the question and answer.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

What would you rather explore? Space

Cards Closing Takeaways And One Question

SPEAKER_02 47:30

or the ocean? Can I choose both? Why both then? Nature is fascinating. You're very well. We're in the middle on land. Space. Ocean. Like, let's explore both. But what will I rather amongst the two? I will do. Let me do ocean. There's sea oxygen inside ocean.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

No, I really wish you had picked this. So I will give it to you. So you have to install the.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

My worst date ever.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

I never had a worst date.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

No.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

I never had a worst date.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

How did that happen? How did it happen that you didn't have a worst date?

SPEAKER_02 48:27

I never had a worst date. I had only one girlfriend before my wife. I had a couple things. Um, but I never had a worst date. I was too cultured a guy, as in to put together a guy. Too spirit. No, no. No spirit. No. To put together a guy like this calm, nice guy to have a worst date. I could speak English. I could listen. Stop sounding like my husband. I can't speak, you know, I could because I said cool, it's like I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Alright, to wrap this up. What will be the one thing from this conversation that any man and even a woman who's listening, what would you want them to remember to take away?

SPEAKER_02 49:21

It's not too late. Too late for what? It's not too late to um fix yourself. It's not too late to begin to express your emotions. It's not too late to begin to take the permission to feel, right? It's not too late. Um, women can help their men, provide the enabling environment. Remember, we talked about enabling the environment to do that earlier. So women can do that, and men, you are not a failure because you didn't ask for help. I think you're a failure. If you don't, yes. Asking for help doesn't make you a failure.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

Thank you very much, Alicia. Thank you for the privilege again, again, again, right? Um, mindful partners, you know that I will leave you with at least three reflective questions. But today, because I think Olalu has taken us different ways, I only leave you with one. What would change in your homes, friendships, and society if men felt safe enough to be fully human? Remember, allow those answers to come to you. Don't rush through it. Take a pen if you must uh write in your notes part. Um just allow it to come to you. The question again is what will change in your homes, in your friendships and society if men felt safe enough to be fully human. And if anything in this episode, oh if anything in this episode resonated with you in any way, please follow, share, give us a like, and that might just give us a little bit more visibility, and of course, I will truly appreciate it. So, thank you very much. A shout out to my mindful, very playful, and funny assistant, Toby Ogushi. Love yourself, love your neighbor, love your country above all of this. Love God, He is the essence of your being. I am Ulu Watsumishi or Lada Kuku. Stay mindful.