A Novel That Rewrites Manliness

A man can look “fine” and still be standing on a ledge inside his own mind. That tension sits at the heart of our conversation with author Ulutumbi Ito about his novel My Mrs. Solomon: A Man’s Quest For True Manliness, and why storytelling may be one of the most effective ways to start honest men’s mental health conversations without shame or posturing. 

We talk about the quiet rules many boys learn early: don’t cry, don’t admit fear, don’t ask for help. Then we follow what those rules can cost over time, especially when abuse happens to boys and the only socially acceptable response is laughter or denial. From emotional silence to suicide risk, we name the patterns that keep men isolated, and we challenge the cultural “alpha male” mirage that insists everything must be perfect. 

The episode also digs into relationships and recovery. We explore how a supportive partner and a strong friend circle can create the safety a man needs to finally speak, and why many men struggle with emotional vocabulary in the first place. Faith and family show up too: we question what “safety” means, what parental accountability looks like, and how a fresh lens on Peter walking on water reframes courage as the willingness to ask for help. 

If you care about men’s mental health, healing from trauma, marriage under pressure, parenting with awareness, or building real support systems, press play and sit with us. Subscribe, share this with someone you love, and leave a review so more people can find these conversations.

Get a copy here https://selar.com/mymrs

Transcript

Men’s Mental Health Month Returns

SPEAKER_03 0:07

Okay, mindful partners, we are still celebrating Men's Mental Health Month. We started with a conversation with Elisha Solalua, who set the tone for how society has conditioned masculinity last week, and then we brought back Dr. Bayamy's uh conversation to help us understand the language around mental health conversations. Today we continue to explore men's language in the mental health space by exploring the use of language storytelling. Sometimes a book um arrives disguised as a story. This particular book I don't want to give it away, but I'll try very hard. And you know, if you've been a mindful partner for long, you know that I've always always talked about family of origing and how we pass over um patterns without realizing. And that is what this book and maybe the author did for me. Today we're exploring my Mrs. Solomon. Yes, you heard that. My Mrs. Solomon, a man's quest for true manless by Ulutumbi Ito. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Good to meet you, good to meet you.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Thanks for the chance. It is a pleasure, it is a pleasure. So uh at first glance, this book seems to be about a man, the story of a man, yeah. Um, underneath it, I found questions about fatherhood, I found questions about friendship, about marriage, emotional silence, parental influence, and all the works. And before we go ahead, can we talk about the not so big elephant in the room? Our names. Are we talking about our names?

Meeting The Author And Book

SPEAKER_03 2:20

You are only too big. How weird is that?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

It is weird, and I'm sure for different reasons. Yeah, thank you again for this opportunity. Just fantastic to get to know you. Um, and you know, fantastic following. I've followed your work, and I think um, you know, yes, you know, you're doing good, um, and there's relevance uh in this. I believe also that whatever we do in life, we should be able to impact other people positively. Our names, coincidence, uh, but good, uh, in the sense that you know, I'm the first boy, and again, it shows you a bit about the tradition of our people. So everybody before me and my family are girls. So this boy then was born, and my dad thought, oh, yeah, you know, what you know, I've got to say, you know, you know, and that's fine. What do you say? Are you ondo? I'm from Lagos State. I'm from Iku Rudu.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Oh, really? Okay, I'm the first child and the only girl. Well, okay, I'm the first child and the only girl, and umishe is the only name I have. Oh, really? Yeah, it's it's so similar though, yeah. Yeah, it's a for non-Yoruba speakers. Um, the best way I can explain Uluatumishe and Uluwatumbi is Ulu Tumbi is um Uluatumishe means God is in the business of repairing and restoring. Funny, that's the only way I can that's the yeah, that's that's what yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah, the same same thing God has given me a new birth, new birth, give me something, so it's it's all uh uh uh a narration of renewal, you know.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

Oh so beautiful. So and and then we're talking about the story that uh it is my it is my duty as um as uh as a broadcaster to say some parts of the story might trigger, but Zumbia and Tumisha are here to hold your hands through it. So before we start, let's just settling with our buddy, taking a deep breath, and let it go. You know why I do that all the time? Because when the buddy settles, you can accept the story. So, my first question will be what was the conversation that you hoped this book would start?

SPEAKER_00 5:09

I really, really wanted to look at a couple of three things. Prioritize mental health challenges in men. We all know that men don't talk. Um it's not the show of strength. Men are supposed to be tough, you know. Um, they're supposed to be the you know the hunters, you know, the the guys that go in to bring you know the the the food in. And also abuse. But I need to say something here that while we look at abuse without de-emphasizing abuse on women and girls, which we must retain at the highest uh uh level of priority and not diminish it at all, it also goes on with boys

Names, Heritage, And Meaning

SPEAKER_00 6:10

and men, or they don't talk, okay, and it goes on, and um and also it's this ability, uh you know. I I I like to challenge the way we view our Christianity sometimes. Um yes, I understand it's good to sort of go in there and listen to the pulpit and let it talk, but I just think that a true reflection of what God wants from us is what we do outside the walls of the church, not within it. You know, we just go in there to learn, it's when we go out there.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

And okay, so before let me stop you there. Don't let me say, do not edit yourself, especially when you're talking about the church. Just go. Let's go for it. Yeah, yeah, just go. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

It's so insular that sometimes we forget that it's about the entire Jesus journey is a journey of empowerment, it's a journey of questioning, it's a journey of saying to people, talk. And we could cite a lot of instances like this. I mean, for instance, look at when Jesus said to his disciples, guys, these people say this who I am. Some people are saying this who I am, others are saying this why I am. Who do you say I am? You guys have been following me for quite a while. Have you challenged? Have you really sat downside to question this guy in front of you? And you know, so it it it it in fact challenges us to question. So, and I think that you know, as we go forth, what I try to do in the book is to look at there is no shame in questioning, there is no shame in showing fear. In fact, there's no shame in asking for help. Okay, that's the whole idea.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Essence, all right. Why was it important? Why was Remy's story important to tell? Okay, covet happened to everybody because that's how the book starts. Remy finds himself in the middle of COVID and then boom, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Well, so there were some lockdowns that were like, wow, real lockdown, you know. Um I'll tell you something. Um and I'm going to try to be vague here simply because I want to shield the identity of this person. Um they don't even know. So we were in an institution learning. I'm not going to tell you whether it's secondary or fine. And this guy, we were just talking as guys do. We just sat down, we were talking. And he came in. I think we were having drinks and uh everyone was laughing, all boys. And he said, Um, oh, by the way, I remember when he was on boarding uh boarding school and this uh senior abuse was regularly abusing, you know, you know, considerably sodomizing completely, yes, guess what we all did? We all laughed. We all just and he laughed also, he did that, we're all teenagers, you know, it's not what guys do, you know, and that was it. Thinking about about a lot of things, you know, during this COVID period and looking at you know, my mind was just so you know, busy, I followed him a lot. And I thought, was that a point in his life when he wanted to say something? Was that an opportunity to say, guys, I need help support? You know, I just you know and I remember we laughed, and I mentioned this in the book. Yes, yes, we laughed and he laughed.

The Conversation He Wanted

SPEAKER_03 10:21

And they shot down, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

And I thought at that point he was laughing at his stupidity for even talking or what seemed to be stupidity, seemed to be because if it was a girl saying that to boys, oh you know, the you know, the whole like an egg, it's what girls are. Everybody goes in arms, yeah. Everybody goes in, and but uh even if if it was a uh perhaps a guy saying that to girls, they'd probably have supported more. Well, boys to boys, no, you know, you know, you know, so that was what sort of started me thinking, okay. And then we have stories of men just I mean, I walked I worked quite a while, you know. And I I remember I was in um I've been in situations where both men just there's a train coming and they just jump in front of the train. And that's it. Nobody knows why you're fine, you know. And it's all about talking, it's all about saying that look, I need to pop, you know, and there's no shame, you know. And there was something else that happened under COVID. There's a I'm not a social media person really, yeah, and I saw uh a video that came in, and there's this actor, a Nigerian actor, and I've forgotten his name completely now, and he did a uh a short stint, about one and a half minutes, two minutes, on men just talking. It was very powerful, you know. And I thought, okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Oh, I think that would be Michael Gio, for example. I think when Dark guy who yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure I'm going to remember his name before we finish. Michael, because Michael, that was about this going on two years now that he did that video. Yeah, it's a longer video.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Is it him something or something?

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Oh, uh Daniel Etienne, Daniel Etim.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

I will remember before we finish. And I and it's just um that was so powerful, uh, uh a video, and I thought, yeah, you know, that makes a lot of sense. And I've been thinking about it over and over and over for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Yeah, all right. So, what you just said to me now um takes me to the to the writer of the book, my Mrs. Solomon of Man's Quest for True Manliness. Now, a spoiler for everyone. Who's gonna read this book? The person you think is Mrs. Solomon is not Mrs. Solomon, even like me. So, what yes, trust me, whoever you thought Mrs. Solomon is gonna be. That's not Mrs. Solomon. That's the only thing I'm gonna spoiler I'm gonna give you. So, um, how what then does you know, if you were going to say manliness, you know, masculinity, what does it mean to Tumbi?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

It means having the courage to ask for help if necessary. If necessary, you have to use if if well, yeah. I mean, if it's not if you need help, ask. You know, that is the whole idea, you know. Because you know what happens usually, and what people what we tend to underestimate is that it takes more courage to ask than to pretend. You know, and if you really want to show that you're strong and that you love yourself, and that you love the wife, you love the kids, you love your family, ask that is a display of strength, unimaginable strength. Gotcha, gotcha. That is true masculinity.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

So, in the in at the on the background of that, let's piggyback on that and say, you know, what is your perception of the interpretation or cultural perception of the cost of performative masculinity?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Okay, okay, now it's it's one of a philosophy.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Okay, so what is yeah, okay, we might be having philosophy. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

All right, let's I'll really try it. I'll really try it, you know, you know. So when we talk about okay, men, women, gender. Yeah, that's it. That's the difference there. That's the gender that we

When Boys Learn To Laugh

SPEAKER_00 15:10

know that's the gender difference. Now, we're looking at who who is this male, the alpha, yeah, the alpha, you know, the the alpha male, you know, the guy who you know walks into a room and you know, you know. Personally, the guy who walks in there doesn't have a problem, everything is good, home good, work good, gym good, uh social life good, everything good, perfect, you know, it's a mirage. Okay, it's a mirage, really, no, really, unless you don't live in the truth in the world, you know. We all have you know, we all we we need support, we need, and that is why you find out that there's a comment that um um Rimmy's wife made where they had a conversation, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Was it at Rhea's range, um rage?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

I can't read it out to you, but go ahead when when she when he eventually told Rhea what happened, okay, and go ahead, please. And Rhea, and you could see that at that point he even thought that he'd failed because he had to tell her everything that happened to him, and then he has to question at the end. Now, what do you think of me? What do you think? What's your truth? You know do you still love me? Yeah, what what what do you think?

SPEAKER_03 16:48

And you know, that is why, you know, sometimes so let me read that to you. Let me read that part to you. I got don't worry, I got you. I told you I marked it. I got you. So after he tells the story, you have to go and get the book, sir. But after he tells the story of everything that happened, and then he goes, What do you really think of me, Ria? He asked when they got into bed as if he needed some validation. She looked him in the eyes, and for the first time in weeks, she saw him, the fear, the guilt, and the uncertainty of what would become of him if he found out about the story. She wondered how he had lived all these years carrying such heavy burdens. We had reached out, reached for his hand, and brought it to her lips before holding it against her face. Sweetheart, you are more of a man to me now than any other time.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

And this is the point, you see. She realized the strength, the courage it must have taken him to say that. However, having said that, you know, either man or woman, we are as good as those that surround us.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

Oh yeah, say that again, please. Say that again. We are as good as those who surround us.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yes, yes. At that point, Rhea's response to him would have made or broken him completely. Yeah, that would have been again. That would have been that would have been it. But she realized, and that's why it is so uh I mean you you wouldn't know anybody uh in total until you get close to them, but uh due diligence is good, uh, prayer is good, but the people that you surround yourself with, it's like I was saying to somebody uh the other day when Jesus turned water to wine, and they were looking at you know, what should we do, what should we do, what should we do? And um they asked me, they asked his mom and he said, you know what, just ask him what you need to do, feel jazz, you know. They found a solution to it. And I and I asked the person, I said, you know, just think a minute, who do you invite to your party? Who do you invite into your life? You know, people who when there's trouble, when there's challenge, when there's something, they gather together to find a solution, you know, or people who just sort of say, Oh, that's your that's your lot, man, you know, and go somewhere else. What is the quality of the people who surround you, you know, and do that? Uh, Rhea was so pivotal to that, you know, in that, and it made him, you know, that partnership made him.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

Yeah. Can I give you a lens though? Ria, we the relationship was beautiful between Rhea and Remy. Um, but this is me jumping, but it's fine. The question that was supposed to come later later, but you know, um, since we're talking about Rhea and Remy now, I I think that Rhea's circle were more pivotal into the role that she eventually played. Because if they

Defining Manliness As Courage

SPEAKER_03 20:20

had not told her to go for some counseling and getting help on how to help him when he comes back psychologically, because Rhea is a worry girl. Oh, maybe she goes faster.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yes, you're correct. You're very correct.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

In fact, I think at the point she said she was going to kill him, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

You know, yeah, that was her first response. I'm going to kill him myself.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yeah. But but again, you're correct. And what it what it does is to validate that point I just made now that the people you surround yourself, you know, you as an individual might be going completely mad, crazy, and stuff like that. The people around you who are true friends, who are true, you know, associates, you know, uh true people around you should be able to keep you, you know, in a place of you know sanity, you know, at that point, which is what his friends did. Uh and perhaps you might understand uh you might understand that more. There's um it's not a sequel really, but there's another book. Love before me. There's another book that is that love before me. Um no, no, no, no. It's called Unveiling the Hair.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Unveiling the hair unveiling the hair.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Yeah, that that that sort of just goes a bit more into the relationship that these girls have. Uh and other things. Yeah, and other things also. But but and even their parents. But um on this particular thing, and you could see how that support gave really. Me the courage to open up and become more vulnerable, you know, to it. And it's eventually what gave him the courage to even speak out.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

Okay. Well, people are wondering what these two people are saying. Don't worry, we'll talk about it. Like I said, um, we I'm trying to manage the trigger points that this conversation might bring, but in summary, my Mr. Solomon, a man's quest for true manliness is a story of a young man who is trying to um to come in terms with his 11-year-old self through secondary school and um sexual molestation by someone who was very trusted. Alright? That being said, let's get back to the conversation. Now, what you said about the people around us and all of that, and you know, performative masculinity and all of that takes me to I've been I ask almost all men that come to my table this question do you think that men have a why vocabulary or well vocabulary enough to properly identify and label their emotions?

SPEAKER_00 23:25

No, no, no, and simply because men need to be helped. Um women are better at doing that, not because they're weaker, it's just that they become you use the right word, they have the words, they have a narrative to be able to say it uh emotionally and ask for that uh help. However, but on top of that, society hasn't helped. True, you know, society has painted this picture that every man must be an atlas, you know, you're not strong enough, you know, must be able to rewind, stop yes, yes, every man must be atlas. An atlas, yes, so that the entire world you have to lift it on your shoulder, not knowing that under Greek mythology, Atlas was cursed to do that, you know. But you know, the the the whole idea is that you put this thing on your on your shoulder, you're going, you're you're really struggling, but society is hailing you. So yes, that is a true man. When this guy slips and falls, it's that same society that points out, laughs, and gells at him and says, Why didn't he say something? Why didn't he say something? Or he wasn't strong enough, or he was doing something equipped for.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

And but like I say, your your your your your your your answer, your question is very, very relevant because uh I think I think by our very nature, we're not really equipped as women to be able to do this, and that's why we need to be to be helped, and that's another salient point in this book that as a woman we are really helped, really, by lending him the words, the narrative needed, the voice that is needed actually that is needed, and I think um if we can step out of psychology and philosophy for a bit and go theology, um that that's that is exactly what it um the help meets means before the curse, before before Genesis 3, Genesis 1 and 2. That is what you know, to to be able to give the man the voice, the he was naming animals, he was not naming humans. And the only thing that he said when even oh whoa, this woman, flesh of my flesh, and and then life continued, you know. So, okay, before we become pastors, yeah. Um at this point, I must confess, yeah, that as a Yoruba girl reading my Mrs. Solomon, and of

Performative Masculinity And Safe Love

SPEAKER_03 26:00

course, as a survivor myself, really constantly worrying in about Estla kind of gave it away for me, you know. When you kind of gave it away, like he's afraid uh he's imagining. Okay, so am I going to ever let Estla step out? Am I ever going to when she turns 11? What's gonna happen? Again, that is me, you know. So, my question is before I go to the real question, my question is what happens to you men when you have your children? Eh, what goes on?

SPEAKER_00 26:36

You help us here, yeah, and especially girl children, yeah. Men will guard them jealously with life, with with with anything, you know. They will buy anything, they'll buy guns, they'll buy dogs, they'll buy you know, you know, cutlass, anything. But you see, what what I think happens is that because men, you know, like we said, you know, by nature we we don't talk, we internalize a lot of things. That is changing because there's more awareness now that it's not weakness, it's courage. But if you look at Rivi's instance, things happened, and things that happened were quite profound. Very I mean, it wasn't just you know it was different. It was not just sexual molestation, yes, it was outright, dehumanizing, yes, and in fact, nobody really saved him. It was only because work happened and it took uh the abuser away. Otherwise, it would have continued. So he went into himself from then on. He couldn't talk to his friends, he couldn't do anything, and then when he got but he he was able to you see, he thought that he had conquered it. He got a good wife, he got into a relationship. Rhea as Rhea was probably his yeah, in fact, was his first uh good relationship, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The relationship was just so sweet, really just yeah, and and then they had Esla, and from the moment they had Esla, the fear was there. Well, what happened to him happened to Estla.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

And on top of that, Estla is a guy, he's a girl, and that was so so he's looking at his head, he's looking at himself saying, Oh, as a boy, no one believed for a girl, it's if the the possibility is higher of that.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Now the point within all of this is that he had already found himself guilty for Estler. Because if anything should happen, something like that should happen to Estla, it's not going to be Estler's fault, it's going to be his. That is why even if he smells something, if he sees a door that is painted a color that reminds him, if he sees an older person, you know, it just reminds him that he needs to guard Estla, he needs to do that. You know, now I tell you what, if if if Estla had if he had done everything he should have done as a father, and Estla still fell into something like that, he would not hold Estla responsible. He will have hold himself. He's still holding him. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

So you know what? You know what? Quiet, like people are going to say you're very quiet on show today. Yeah, I'm quiet because it's taking me to places, and I'm trying hard so that we do not talk number one, not give too much away about the book, yeah, and also not trigger people. Um, but most importantly, I wanted to also, you know, highlight things that the book is small. Let you see the book I read it in an hour, by the way. Yes, I read it an hour, so it's just a hundred and seven pages read in an hour. And um I must be honest that while I was walking with Remy in this book, my focus was more on the relationships around him. Yeah, and from Anu the the uh the chef, the from Anu the chef to the French to Ria Screw to Rimi's in-laws versus Rimi's parents, and and please hear me out, hear me for me, because of where I'm coming from, these things are very, very, very important. It's as if Reas parents were the gift, remains parents weren't to him. Okay, they were more aware, not necessarily because they were exposed or anything, no, but real's parents were more aware, you know, and while it looks as if they were a close-knit family and all of that, you notice maybe you didn't notice because you read it, but you notice that real's parents were more accommodating, yeah. They were more the chemists, they were more willing to give grace, yeah. Yeah, you know, other than his parents, and I really wanted to pull my hair. Like, can't you see that your emails are saying something? The relationships are you know, um, and I'm I was I know you say that, okay, but I must tell you this how I felt when I read the book. This is how I felt about Mr. Solomon, Mr. Solomon's wife, and um Mrs. Gok.

unknown 32:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

Um, Mr. Solomon was either unconsciously or deliberately thinking that because there's no how he would have no, because I don't think Remy was her first. Um, no, I don't think so. He probably and probably that's why again, this is please pardon my creative reading. You know, it's probably why he goes on missions so that he doesn't have to face what his wife has become. Okay, again, that's to Michelle Dingu. Okay, I didn't know what you wrote to, but that's me, and it's me reading, and again, the the Remy's mother in my um my um um I'm advocate for parenting, right? Child-led parenting, to be honest, like and that came from my mom, like you said, we'll have this conversation after. I think that Mrs. Gok was not very in tune with her child, okay, and that also reflected with Remy's sister who decided, you know what, I'm not having this, I'm not going to come near you guys, and then she just stays in Ghana and stays there. So, that is my interpretation. What did you write?

SPEAKER_00 33:32

I think, I think, okay, you know, you know what? It's written in a way that should um motivate questions like this, um, and also address them. Rini's mom played a central uh role in this. She's she she was a church woman. Okay, if the pastor doesn't do it, nobody's going to do it. Okay. Um and she refused to be to compromise on that. Okay? Now remember that uh in fact the reason why and I don't know if I'm let me know if I'm giving the things away. The reason why she decided on where Remy will stay was because it was a pastor's house.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Yeah, they're not giving anything away, and it's going to annoy a lot of people, but yeah, you know, and for her, it's safe.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Okay, now and that then lent some weight to remiss her citation. How does it go home and say that this is happening? How will he tell his mom who will not even listen? Right? I mean pastor, even if a pastor is involved, and you know now it's not an indictment on pastors or anything like that, it's just to say that look sometimes what we think. Yeah, what we think sometimes as safety next, we also need no matter what it is, we need to do our due diligence. We need to be very, very sure of what we're doing, you know, even if it's a relative. Now and that that led a lot of uh confusion to me, and he couldn't really handle it. He really couldn't handle it, you know. Now, for Mr.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

For Pastor himself, you could be right.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Honestly, you you could

Do Men Have Emotion Words

SPEAKER_00 35:40

be. Um in my mind, the abuser knew his diary. He knew she knew what will happen when it will happen and how and decided to take advantage. All right, so she was quite masterful in how she did this, you know. Now, and she would do it without batting an eye.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Come on, she would lock him in a godshed, yes, and like oh my, I I I didn't cry, but yeah, no, I wanted to enter the book and like really give a piece of my mind. Like, come on, you just wanted to have fun. It's not I can't even call that fun. You just wanted to do whatever you want to do with this boy, and he's saying no, and then you lock him in a good chair and not feed him for days.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Yeah, I mean, the boy's 11 when this started, and throughout the first time, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's just young, young guy. I mean, he was tall for his age, but the the somebody read the book uh here in in uh and they told me that they just couldn't get past the woman. They just they just could not, you know. And the first time, uh, if you remember, the very first time that this happened, she was she was very sly. She had forgiven him. I mean, imagine uh an 11-year-old uh boy in front of somebody of that age, stuck naked, you know, all of a sudden, you know, and then almost immediately guilt was imputed onto the boy. So therefore, from that moment on shame guilt and everything. So from that moment on, he was always looking for a way to for forgiveness, although he never did anything wrong. Okay, and and and that it's a huge and people think that it's it and I tell you what, it's not something that is uh is not happening in the world, yeah. Oh definitely, oh definitely it it is happening, and that's the the the the evolution of um of this, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

All right, so I'm wondering if I should take from my notes, just you know but but what I uh what what what I noticed what I noticed is that and I really did appreciate the fact that Remy and Rhea had a relationship that they could come back from, no matter what. Yeah, yeah, they feel crazy for each other, blah blah blah, but you know, they had a relationship where they could come back from. In these times where people are asking, what do you bring to the table, what are you, what is on the table, and all that. Was that intentional to address that?

SPEAKER_00 38:59

It is I wish I now, this is why I'm slightly confused because in unveiling the hair, you you understand more what the relationship was like, all right, even before they got married, you know.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

Okay, so time to go.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

They were pali, they were they were good, you know. They were really friends, they're really good. Yeah, yeah, you know, Rhea is from quite a friend family.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Oh, yeah, it's obvious. Like that's like they were they were more, they were more, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yeah, you know, uh, and I will even say much more than uh uh than Ray, but you wouldn't tell that they they they really got on the they got each other's back, they were you know good. So the the the the the relationship, the love was quite genuine, okay, and then you've got Esla there also, which sort of uh bonded them uh uh together. So I think they will that that relationship will have been good anyway, you know, but at the point it happened, because there was no inclination that Remy was going to do what he did, or tried to do what he did.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

Okay, so for those who are again, not to give too much about away from the butt so what Remy tried to do was he got on a ledge, he was on the ninth floor of a hotel in London, and um Anu, who is the one who cooks natural meals for him, had gotten to his house and was knocking, and then eventually got the uh super of the house to open the door and he was on the ledge ready to um to take his life, you know. But when that happened, is what happened was An was able to um go into his phone and saw Rhea's um Rhea and Estela's picture, showed him, and there was that it was at that point that he knew that okay, this could work. And then Rhea was called that's all I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

That's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I mean, who she did not even, she would not remotely have guessed that he was going to do something. Now there was no reason to think that. I mean, they were good, he was always smiling, he was advising people, he was a mentor to you know, people. So, why would you think that somebody like that would want to take their own life? Just like that. So that surprised her a lot, you know.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

Uh, but her mom just put everything down to go stay with her, yeah, and then she calls her friends and they do a quick uh uh conference video call, and you know, and and of course, Mrs. Solomon, but not Mrs. Solomon, Mrs. Guck, um uh Miss Guck comes to the airport with her, you know. But you know, I think um if I'm going to say my best part of the book is how our real friends held her, yeah, so she could hold her husband.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Yes, they they they they were just there, they were good people, you know, they understood each other. Bear in mind, these are people who have been friends since like nine years old, you know, they've been tied together, you know. They and look, they are not all Christians, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

I know. I mean it's not even about it's not even about faith now in town of showing up for one another,

Fatherhood, Triggers, And Protection

SPEAKER_03 42:40

yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

And and and and and and they're strong for it, they live together, they grew up together, and they retain their values, you know, and and they were really there for for for them. And it's been a journey for uh for Remy himself, and he realizes that, you know, is that a hurdle of shame, or no, it's not even shame, perceived shame, you know, or imagined, or or some of the shame. It's not, and if any if if there's something I'd like people to take from this book, is that it's not a shame to ask, there's no shame in it, you know, just ask. If you need help, ask for it.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

That's where I am. I think a quick a quick one here before we get to the final part of this. I really wish this conversation wouldn't end, but it has to end. But before we get there, wherever it is that you are, if you can close your eyes, close your eyes. If you can, it's okay. You know, soften your shoulders, soften your eyes, the hole between your ears, whatever it is, you're feeling it, breathe into it and let it go. Just let it go. It might not be easy, but let it go. You're stronger than you think. So let's continue. Before we get into what I believe is the final part of this conversation, let's make a quick stop. And that what I think is the most beautiful segue, you know, was so beautifully captured in um what's the uh what's the uh the um equi, yes, equi. Equi, okay, yeah, you know, and the story of Peter walking on water and the lens the book gave me uh new so this is one spoiler that we can give. Please talk about that for a bit.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Okay, look, when I when I wrote it, and I was sort of on my laptop doing it, and my fingers were saying equi as a woman. He's coming in to advise and counsel Remy. And I'm thinking in my head, are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure? You know, this guy was, you know, I said, do it anyway, you know, and you know, I just you know, it's like your it's like your mind is saying to you, don't don't go down that, you know, and then you just keep doing it, you know. And you know, Remy saw him, saw her, and thought, a woman, you know, she came in, and I mean, instantly his mom didn't like uh equity anyway, uh, because she's not a pastor.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

We're not surprised.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

And um, and then they had this big argument about whether she goes to church or she was even watching, she was trying to spy on her whether she would close her eyes when pray when they are praying for food, you know, and then said no, she doesn't, but she has faith, and then somehow the uh the conversation went to Jesus walking on water, uh, because uh Mrs. Gok said that that's the godcha she said, and Equi was saying, Yeah, that's that's true, you know, it is true, but that she had read it, and that is that really what Jesus wanted us to uh uh to learn from her. That question got her a bit angry, and she said, Okay, why it's good and she said um and she said she said, Look, this is her argument. Jesus is God, he created everything, he's all powerful, so he works on water. Why do we then as Christians still go on as if uh it's a surprise, it shouldn't be a surprise for us. Does he really want us to focus on Peter and what he was able to do with Peter? That is where the parable is, and then they have an argument about what a parable is and what not a parable is anyway, yeah. But that is where the parable is, that he is able to confront his fears, he is able as an individual to walk on water. That is the thing. Walking on water is something, but in this instance, when you look at and and the way I said I thought I put it the things that Peter should have dealt with in that boat confronted him when he stepped out of it, but he couldn't confront it when they were when he was in that boat, and the reason he could was because he was in a community of men. They would have laughed at him if you said he was afraid, they would have laughed at him if you if you know for any reason. So instead of first of all saying to Jesus, look, deal with this for me, you know, he stepped in anyway, and those things then started to confront him and he started to sing. But here is the here's the good thing while all the men were looking and trying to see whether Peter would do what men ought to do sing and keep his pride, keep his manliness. He didn't do that, he turned to Jesus and asked for help.

SPEAKER_03 49:07

Okay, so let again, this is the only part that I'm going to give out. I'm going to read it out, not everything, but just read that part. Um, this is Equi speaking. Um, so sorry, this is Rhea speaking after Equi had given you know the background to Peter and the um and the miracle or parable. Like I'm I'm not calling it a parable, but it's you. It says, um Rhea says, Are you saying then that it's not worth celebrating Jesus walking on water? And Ekw replied, Yes, it is worth it. However, not in surprise, he is God after all. The question then remains: is it

Faith, Parents, And Due Diligence

SPEAKER_03 49:50

his walking on water that he wants us to remember from this episode? Especially for us with hindsight. What's your point then? Remy's mother asked. My point is that Jesus made Peter the star that day, giving us a lot to learn. Oh my love, there girl. Like I really love that like equi. And just a little bit of segue here. When you know, when you're talking about equi, a man, a woman coming to the interesting thing is I'm actually there. So uh mindfully trim shape this podcast, we host uh men only mental conference, mental health conference in November. And like only men, only men just today to come diverse, we'll get psychiatrists coming over to and and then the last hour of their damn day, we just leave them to have a conversation, and gracefully the two psychiatrists who have come and the two auditions will stay to the end, really, and they kind of have a group um coaching or therapy session, which is always a highlight. So when I knew I was supposed to do this, I was like, eh, Mika, you know, but I understand the tension that you were feeling at that point, like a woman going to you know, because the conversation will not go like oh, you feminized the man, you're you know, so I understand that tension.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

So and and for him, also the the the reason for all his troubles is a woman, anyway. Yeah, coupled with that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 51:44

When I saw the title Mr. Solomon, I'm not gonna lie, I thought Mr. Solomon was going to be his wife until I got uh Mrs. Solomon, but I think it's a double entendra because eventually Rhea becomes a wise Solomon, a wise Solomon, and then you so if if if I was going to say yes uh if I was if I was going to be in my creator space, I would say that my Mr. Solomon was really telling us about those two Solomons in his life, the Solomon that broke him and the Solomon, Mr. Solomon, Mr. Solomon that broke him, yeah, and then Mr. Solomon that brought him. And the Bas that brought him there, yes, he's that's me.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

And then you know, sometimes he might want to ask some men, you know, it might be the the the synonym for it, you know, what is your Mr. Solomon?

SPEAKER_03 52:45

Who what who and when is your when did your Mrs. Solomon start?

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Yes, you know, yeah. So it's that you know, just to allow men to uh to talk, like you know, but like I said, you know, I'm not the trainer, but uh yeah, I'm a philosopher. I still philosopher all. It's fine, but uh yeah, but um, you know, it's just something I have a passion for. Uh and all the books, you know, um there's hopefully, hopefully, uh in I saw four of them on Goodreads, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 53:21

Four of now?

SPEAKER_00 53:22

Yes, there's um a very short um series, uh, which is for the love of me. And then you've got uh um this, Miss I miss Solomon. Yeah, the the there's another coming, uh, which is not yet released. Uh haven't hopefully in another three weeks, uh, haven't sort of sorted out in my mind what the title for that is going to be.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

I know, I trust me, I know exactly what you're saying. I've been I've been writing and rewriting my second book for two years. So I know exactly what you're saying, uh, but we'll be here when it's um so but but I don't want us to go without um um uh without addressing parental accountability. Okay, you know, I told you that was the only challenge. I had you know, after you know, after after he had taken his power and you know, all of them had understood, Equi had been able to bring them to a place of understanding, and then um, you know, uh Remy, yes, of course, his character act is perfect, you know, he's totally in a good space and all that, and then it turns to his mom, mommy. Do you remember Mr. Solomon? And then I saw the end, the end bow.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Okay, okay, I hear you, I I really hear you, you know. And um I think what you try to what in my what you sort of put in my mind is to is to do a sequel to this, but I'm gonna am I resisting? The reason is this, the reason is this, uh and I know you and I had a which you disagree you did disagree with me, is that I just I I we wanted it to be about really coming into his own. You know, he thought about it, you know, before he opened his mouth to to talk, and that was the very first time everybody was there. He could have grabbed his mom or grabbed somebody to go to a quiet corner and stuff like that, but now he was a different guy. There was his in-laws there, there were his, I think Equi was there, his, you know. Everybody was there, everybody was there. Yeah, immediate family was there, and just said, look, to the hearing of everybody, look, do you remember? You know, facing his mom. And I think it was just to say that now he has arrived.

SPEAKER_03 56:13

He has I really wanted to see Mrs.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Guck.

SPEAKER_03 56:18

Yeah, it would have been true, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

He really went to see what's face and oh my you know, that kind of a thing. Of course, too much of Europe might be.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

Yeah, how yeah, yeah, that might but don't you like it? Don't don't you like imagining it?

SPEAKER_03 56:40

Oh, so for me, I knew I the imagination was fast. Because I knew like like we had a conversation before because that it I have a very, very, very, very, very similar, like I was like, I who told this guy my story, kind of thing. Um, you know, um, I knew what it meant literally, like uh literarily, uh, as a writer and all that. Yeah, but um I'm I was also reading as as I was reading as a survivor, not just as a literal yeah, yeah. Uh I was I was reading and I'm wondering of a person who is just starting on their journey to healing, and then they get to that point, and the person goes, like, the mother did not they didn't even tell us whether the mother was sorry or not. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yes, we know that perhaps if he had reported to his mother, and his mother had rebuffed him or something like that, then that might have.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

However, as a young child, you will see a difference in them, in their moods, and stuff like that, and you should ask questions, you know. So I take your point, you know.

SPEAKER_03 58:02

Yeah, she was she was just not attuned, she was just on she was she was more, and this is nothing against the faith. I'm a Christian, you're a Christian. Yeah, this is absolutely nothing against the faith. It's and and and you know when people read Ephesians 6, 1 to 3, they start part two. They don't get to the point where they do not do not annoy your children. So that that that that is basically what in fact, I think in Colossians 3, Paul

Suicide Risk And Support Circles

SPEAKER_03 58:40

also did say, Do not put undue expectations on your children. You know, these things are in the body, but but no, parents stop at obey your father and mother, for this is the and then do not go.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

Oh my goodness, you know, but it's it's it's there's so many layers to it. I mean, I like what you said initially that for those who read the book, there's layers of you know trust. There is uh yes, okay, yes, the abuse is quite you know, um there, you know, there's um you know uh faith, uh there's this, you know, parenting, like you said, you know, so many, so many there's so many layers.

SPEAKER_03 59:27

It's such it's such a short book. Um yeah. Um the relationship with the to be honest, the the the the um the foundation to Remy's healing is the relationship to his wife. Yes, yes, the foundation, you know, he knew that, you know, and and that was why it asked that question. That there are a couple of questions that he asked. The first one was, I didn't like oh, I didn't like to be alone. Yeah, the moment he came to that realization, I didn't like to be alone, and that I didn't like to be alone opened, you know, you know, a vortex of things that you know, and then it started this domino. And I must say thank you for putting Rhea's friends, you know, making helping her get ready for Rimin's return. If we all had just kind of friends, I think we'll have a better world.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Yes, I I yeah, I mean well, in an ideal world, yes. Yeah, I will I I hope I will make it available to you the uh something in the air. Okay, you said something while we're talking that I think that I will get clients.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get it. So what's what what um I have two last questions for you. Oh, you're supposed to play a game, but I have two last questions for you. Yeah, um, what do you hope men and women take away from this?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:08

Yeah, it's just courage. All right, there's nothing wrong with you if you need help for any mental situation. Everybody has it, everybody needs help, everybody needs support. Please ask. Uh for men you display a lot of strength by asking for help, for support, for help, and for women, your man is a strong man, he's the strongest he is when he asks. Ah repeats your man is the strongest he is ever been when he asks for help. It takes a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:01

The lot of bites, ah, conversation, but so this is uh a writer-to-a-writer question if Remy were sitting across to you right now, what would you be telling him?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

I would say good for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:28

What do you think? We have what Nigeria is so good for you, it's not easy that you have come to the point where you could just open your mouth to say what you said.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

The choices you made wanting to do what you did completely wrong, and it's only God that saved you, there's no reason for that. And I'll say to Rimi, now you are not you are a value, you've become a value to people in the same situation. Use it to empower them, you know. Um he's a different guy now, you know. He's completely different because he's more powerful than ever he was, you know, because he's realized the power that he has within him. Uh, and he must not stop evolving, he must not make it, he must not stop making himself better, you know, you know, whatever he does. And you know, the thing with these things is that for for especially for when you know nurturing you know younger kids, you know. I said to somebody, you know, when I was I was managing a team of a lot, I don't know how many people, and they were managers, managers, managers, you know. I still had a team with all the managers, and I said to them, I said, if you have a team member that they joined your team, uh Tim E, they were unsure, they were not full of confidence when they joined, but by the time they left your team, they knew the work very well, they could relay figures and everything out to you very well, but yet you know, mentally and emotionally they're still not very confident and they're still afraid to come to work and stuff like that. I say you as a manager, you have failed because you have not been a better person. Part of your job is you see, when you're fearful to come to work, you are fearful, full stop because you spend most of your time at work. You are a fearful person, you know. How much time do you spend at home? Evening until morning, and then weekend, you know, the chunk of your time is at work. So people should be illegals on the road to work. Yes, people should not be working for you, they must be working with you, with you, you know, to the point that they must be not afraid of you, but afraid of disappointing you. And I think that's what I would say to Rennie, you know, that what he has learned, what God has helped him to learn the opportunity to do, you know, empower others

Peter, Water, And Asking For Help

SPEAKER_00 1:05:10

with it, but don't stop the journey of healing because the journey of healing is a matter, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:20

Something is gonna happen and we're gonna sell yeah. Thank you so much, Tumbi, for coming. But before you go, pick one of those cards. Uh pick the on the yes, am I right here? Let's do this this one. Alright.

unknown 1:05:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:41

This this is so hold on, let me this is like this is so uh this is so so so weird. Can you read it now? I didn't read it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

If you could go back in time, which one thing would you tell your That's amazing that isn't it. That's what I was saying. I think okay. If you okay if you were what game do you like to play?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:36

Monopoly.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:38

Any sport?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:40

I used to run, but I can't run anymore.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

Alright. Would you do you understand any team sport? Netball or you know uh football?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:53

I did play um what's it called now? Volleyball in secondary years ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:01

Okay, now you used to run, but if you were going to be in a team of runners, of people, you know, athletes, what would you be? Would you be would you you have a choice, right? Would you elect to run, to train, or to just support with serving water?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:24

Honestly, support with serving water. Okay, why? I just love to serve. That's fair enough. I just I just love to serve. Like I would rather, I'd rather serve water and encourage the team than be just yeah, yeah. Uh it's just it's the simple question.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:44

Like, no, no, no, no, that's fine. That's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just I'll just I I would just serve the water and allow the trainers do the training and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would I would just serve the water. That's good. That's good. Yeah, thank you so much to me for watching before this conversation. I deeply, deeply, deeply appreciate it. So, where can we get the book?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:09

The book is on Amazon. I think it's on e I'll send it to you.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:15

Yeah, I need all the links so that we can show notes. And I'll send it to the second. Uh eBay also, yeah. Okay, okay, just send me the link so that we can add to the show notes and um uh please, please. Uh, I have a copy of uh my Mr. Solomon to give out. So uh the best way to get that copy is to answer this question. What parable? No, it's not story. What parable did we say was used in my Mrs. Solomon in man's quest for manness? And if anything in this episode speaks to you, please

Takeaways, Game, And Giveaway

SPEAKER_03 1:09:05

like, give us a follow, and share. That could give us a little bit more visibility, and thank you, of course, to Toby for being an absolutely perfect best production pal. Until next time, be kind to every man in your life. Love yourself, love your neighbor, love your country. Above all of this, love God. He is the essence of your being. I am Uluat's Mish. Stay mindful. Thank you.