B2B Inspired

Meet the Crew: John Hayler, Creative Design

• BlueOcean | The B2B Agency • Season 2 • Episode 6

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🚀 Ready to elevate your B2B design game? 🚀 

Join us on the latest episode of We Do B2B, BlueOcean’s podcast sharing inspiration and insights for the New Zealand marketing community. This week, we dive deep into the fascinating world of graphic design with creative powerhouse John Hayler. From the allure of gig posters and musical merchandise to navigating the intricacies of B2B branding, John shares insights on blending artistic flair with strategic intent.

Discover how understanding client goals, leveraging tools like Canva (yes, even Canva!), and staying attuned to pop culture can transform design into a business game-changer. Whether you're tackling capability documents or full-scale brand redesigns, this episode is packed with actionable advice for marketers looking to collaborate effectively with designers and create lasting impact.

🔗 Don’t miss this one - tune in now to level up your skills!

For more B2B insights, ideas and opportunities, head to www.blueoceanagency.co.nz

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Let’s roll up our sleeves and take on tomorrow together.

Dale Koerner:

Welcome back to we Do B2B, the podcast by Blue Ocean, where we unpick the ins, outs, ups and downs of B2B marketing here in Aotearoa, New Zealand. I'm your host, dale Kerner, and I'm a B2B marketer like you. From emerging trends and thinking to inspiring real-world stories from smart, good people here in New Zealand. We're here to help the New Zealand b2b marketing community to become one of the best and brightest anywhere in the world. If, like me, you're a b2b marketer looking for a place to connect, learn and be inspired, you have come to the right place welcome back to the we do b2b podcast.

Louis Bolton:

I'm your host Louis Bolton, and I've got a very exciting guest with me today, none other than a graphic designer by the name of John Hayler. He's a graphic designer here at Blue Ocean and he comes with a wealth of knowledge and experience, and we're going to unpack that all and just give you an idea of the kind of realm that he works in. He's a graphic designer, he's an illustrator. He deals in logo design, packaging design, print design, visual design, presentation design, brand design. He's even a video editor. And interaction John. Welcome to the show.

Louis Bolton:

Kia ora thanks for having me, it's brilliant to have you here, and when I read this intro, the first thing that I thought about when I read this intro, the first thing that I thought about was job applications that you read on Seek, where folks or clients are looking for graphic designers or an in-house marketer, but they must have design, indesign, adobe Suite, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let's start there. What do you think of things like that, and how would you describe yourself or explain what a graphic designer is?

John Hayler:

I think the overarching title I kind of gave myself is creative designer, because graphic designer is very niche but a creative designer incorporates all those different kind of assets. But yes, applying for jobs. So I've been in New Zealand for three and a half years a bit of Blue Ocean for two and a half years, and so when I was applying for jobs and looking at those descriptions, thinking, okay, tick, tick, tick, everything that's listed I've, I've done those things. So putting it onto my website, onto my cv, just to try and showcase my skills that I've got to get a job, yeah, absolutely.

Louis Bolton:

Let's take it back to the beginning. Obviously new to New Zealand, born and bred in the UK, how was that? Where did you start your graphic design journey? Just take us through where that all began and how you got to where you got to.

John Hayler:

So I think for me I was playing in bands from the age of 19.

John Hayler:

So I learned the guitar at 14, played for a couple of years, taught myself a couple of chords, and then I joined bands at 19 years old and I did that for a good amount of time, like a good few years, and we were making CDs, making vinyl records, and we would look at the artwork and I was part of that process of going oh yeah, this is cool, this is cool, that typography is cool and playing gigs around the UK. We would see gig posters that were made for that show and I kind of fell in love with those just being like this looks amazing, I'd love to do something like that. And looking at it from a graphic perspective, it felt a bit like collage, like that kind of cut and paste, that fan fanzine kind of feel, which is something that I've always loved. And then it moved into the illustrative phase and there were a whole bunch of artists in the UK, really, really talented illustrators and thinking to myself I want to learn how to do this.

John Hayler:

So this is late teens so this is probably so late teens into mid-20s is probably like my um, like essentially the main focus.

John Hayler:

Like we were gigging a lot, like we did like 200 gigs in like you know, five years, um, all up and down the uk and then the bands that I was in after one of them broke up, we toured in europe. Um, you know, we we got to do quite a bit, which is really fun and seeing all those different cultures and different areas there's places you wouldn't normally go to. So it was a great way of seeing the UK and we'd see these posters up at the venues or seeing them around the towns that we were in, like this band playing today, this band playing today and, yeah, just seeing it as a real inspiration for me wanting to become an illustrator.

Louis Bolton:

I have to ask what kind of bands were you in? What kind of music did you actually play?

John Hayler:

So I was in a punk rock band Brilliant, brilliant, Thank goodness. Long live rock.

Louis Bolton:

Yeah, punk, thank God.

John Hayler:

Yeah. So we were kind of like in a punk rock band, then pop punk, hardcore punk, thank God, yeah. So we were kind of like in a yeah, punk rock bands, then pop punk, hardcore punk and post-hardcore. There's so many genres.

Louis Bolton:

Yeah, there are plenty of genres, but one thing that I mean I remember. I mean I've never been in a band, but a lot of my mates who are creative, have been in bands, either drummers or guitarists or singers or whatever, and I think it lends itself to a certain way of thinking and a certain way of looking at the world. But to your point, in terms of the posters, I mean they're iconic, aren't they? I mean they, they live in the psyche of pop culture, they live in the psyche of the bands and of the fans that follow them, because they can identify with a certain what's the word? Belonging to a tribe in a way, isn't it? Okay, cool, so that was the formative kind of way of getting into it. How did you sort of get the formal education for lack of a better word of following that path into design?

John Hayler:

So for me, I studied in Reading, back in England, and I studied visual communication and I thought I was just going to go in and it was just going to be graphic design, and that's where a lot of my experience comes from. In visual communication, from narrative design, we did logo design, we did marketing, we did packaging, we did everything. And that's what was so great about that course is that we could actually try a whole bunch of different things. The only thing we didn't cover was, so I ended up becoming a self-taught illustrator.

Louis Bolton:

So can you define the difference then in terms of being a visual creative and then going into illustration? So that wasn't taught to you, you actually taught yourself. What was that journey like then?

John Hayler:

Well, for me, there's one of my favorite artists, brian ewing, who sadly passed away recently. Um, he is a gig poster designer and he has a very kind of comic art style about it. Um, and I remember seeing some of his posters that he'd done for, um, oh, there was one particular. It's like, uh, the lawrence Lawrence Arms, one of my favourite bands, and I was like, oh, that's such a cool poster. It was so simple, like the colours, like three colours, but they were bold, thick black outlines and I was like, oh yeah, that looks amazing.

John Hayler:

And I remember looking at Illustrator and I taught myself the pen tool which is the hardest tool to teach yourself in Illustrator in, in my opinion, um, but um, yeah, and I found these tutorials been like, okay, oh, that's good, how, so you do it like that? Ah, now I'm slowly getting an understanding of how to do it and I got a sketchbook. I've still got some of the pencils left over from uni they're like 15 years old now um, and I've still got a sketchbook where I just, you know, I would do some basic shapes. Okay, I want, I want to do this, I want to do this. And just looking at tutorials I found online and just, yeah, slowly taught myself over the years.

Louis Bolton:

Did you always sketch, or did you always? Were you artistic at school, for lack of a better word? Were you in the art class, or whatever the case is, or was that later on?

John Hayler:

I was in art class but yeah, it was more that traditional kind of art class but it was more that traditional kind of art and I think at the time. So this is like going back to the mid-90s and Photoshop probably was on version 2 or something like that point. I think you could only undo once you know, Command Z and that's it.

John Hayler:

You can't go back 20 steps, but that's like the early version of Photoshop, and yeah. So for me, I wasn't really aware of that at the time and yeah, so I did a traditional art course and we learned a little bit of sketching, but it was more like paints and getting messy and that kind of stuff.

Louis Bolton:

But did that serve you If you look back at it now and that education did that open your eyes and serve a purpose for moving you forward, or was it a waste of time? And the only reason I say that is because a lot of the folks that we've spoken to on this podcast have mentioned that, even though education is there to kind of give you a highlight of what, what's possible, they've forgotten a lot of what they've learned for purpose and actually learned on the ground in the real world.

John Hayler:

I remember I was trying to remember some of the stuff that we did and it was like making stuff out of clay to like, oh, here's an ashtray for like a relative who smokes.

John Hayler:

So for me I don't think it was, it was probably was helpful I was thinking about it now, but it wasn't super helpful, okay, and I think going to university was so the best years of my life loved University and, being an older student, I was a little bit kind of concerned going in like, oh my god, these kids gonna be like 18 I'm like 27 years old but there are people that I still talk to to this day like it was really, really relaxed and the teachers are really great. We would start from scratch and didn't matter what you already knew. It's like let's just take it back, strip it back, start again. And my teachers were actually fine artists that were teaching graphic design and that was a really good insight into creative thinking and not just thinking I'm just going to jump on the computer and do this, and that was really, really good.

John Hayler:

And one of my lecturers, claire, she is a printmaker and with the gig poster side of things, I said I'm going to screen print my own gig posters. So I did and she helped me learn that skill and it's something that I carried on for years. Right, and unfortunately, moving to new zealand, I couldn't bring all my printmaking stuff, so I've got to buy it again, but I want to get back into it because I loved it so much.

Louis Bolton:

So let's talk about that move then. I mean, you have to get into the Pacific, but what was the reason for broadening your horizons? For lack of a more coming down to a little island in the South Pacific?

John Hayler:

So my partner is from New Zealand originally and we had a little girl about three years ago just over three years ago yet. So, um, so yeah, she's flourishing here and New Zealand is just such a great place for her to grow up like. It's a bit more chilled, a bit more laid back, um, but uh, she's getting lots of stuff from England, from her Nana and Grandad, so youdad, so she's well looked after on that front. But yeah, so we moved over. We've been here about three and a half years now, so we made that switch.

Louis Bolton:

How's that going, though? Because culturally, that must be quite a mind shift and a career shift in terms of how UK does things and then New Zealand does things. I've certainly found that immigrating from South Africa that cultural fit, it makes sense, but how have you found it, and what have you found has been the biggest hurdles or the easiest part of it?

John Hayler:

I tend to find that Kiwis, south Africans and the British are quite similar and I think some of the things that I find is that it's such a cultural place like you know, you've got, yeah, you know, the Kiwis, you've got your, your Brits, you've got people on your oe, say, south Africans, there's Americans, canadians, such a plethora of you know different cultures and I think for my partner she probably misses the shopping side of things and being able to order stuff really really easily. Yeah, and yeah, being down in the South Pacific, like so far down in the world, it's far away. It's far away. So you know, we talked to my parents every couple of weeks and, yeah, they get to see. You know, my daughter grow up from her from a distance.

John Hayler:

But you, but it's great that we've got all this technology around. We can actually do that. I remember my aunt lived in Germany for a year when I was about 13 years old and we would get a cassette tape record just us chatting for like an hour and then we'd send it to her and she'd send it back and you think how far technology's come, how far it's come. But, yeah, being in New Zealand is great, it really is great. Yeah, we've got the beach on our doorstep and the say the just way that it's so relaxed.

Louis Bolton:

Yeah, you can't fault it absolutely. I mean, I said the same thing it's clean, things work and it's just a great place to bring up. You know, absolutely, I absolutely agree with you. How have you found moving into the B2B space here at Blue Ocean in terms of working with clients in that B2B space and using your design skills from a very kind of different background where you're talking about, you know, the music scene and it being quite complex, not quite very creative and open to Whatever your heart desires, to maybe coming into a more corporate, more kind of paint within the lines scenario?

John Hayler:

yeah, it's. Yeah, it's been a bit of a Bit of a difference from my previous job back in England. So I worked in a college in the UK and we're actually taught, so I'm a fully qualified teacher. But I also did a lot of marketing for the college itself to promote the courses that we were doing.

John Hayler:

So I was kind of between that was your dab into actually getting that was more B2C though, because we view the students as customers, which is a horrible way to view them, but unfortunately that's how it worked in in england. Um, so, yeah, it's a little bit different. Some skills obviously are very um transferable, but, um, yeah, when you're starting to focus us down a little bit more um into those, yeah, typography color schemes specific for these clients, um, and yeah, we're selling that business to business, not to customers.

Louis Bolton:

It's yeah it's a journey, isn't it?

John Hayler:

yeah, it's a journey, it is let me.

Louis Bolton:

Let me ask you this question then when does a b2b client engage a graphic designer? Because where do you sit? If you look at the hierarchy of things if not necessarily that's a hierarchy you obviously have a salesperson who's got a client who come in, marketing has helped with help with that, and the clients come on board and then they've engaged the creative services within an agency to the marketing team and the marketing team approach you. Or do you have a direct relationship with the, with the client? So what, where do you sit and when do you actually engage with the client?

John Hayler:

I mean it varies per client. There's some clients that we have where I am in contact with someone specific from that company and and there are other clients where they might be briefed through you know a member of our marketing team here, and so it does vary from from client to client and what do you they, what is your part in that journey?

Louis Bolton:

What have you found? If we take this journey of the client, what questions should they be asking or what do you have to educate them on when we're actually dealing with the graphic elements of their brand, of their company or their business? I mean, what are you actually doing for them?

John Hayler:

So essentially it could be anything. It could be a logo, it could be a brand, it could be a capability document or any other type of document okay, but for me, communication is absolutely, 100% paramount.

John Hayler:

if we're not communicating, communicating clearly, then basically we're up shit creek without a paddle yeah, it's one of those things where being clear from the start just really helps that journey. Yeah, and it's something that henrik from here has said before that a job well started is a job half finished. I think it's such a perfect way to summarize dealing with clients so what have you been?

Louis Bolton:

what have you found your hurdles? Because obviously, when you're dealing with b2b, people are are not necessarily thinking about, you know, color schemes or logos or etc. Etc. Etc. How do you, how do you handle that? How do you navigate that journey with the client and bring them along with you on the journey by? Is it by you, by asking them specific questions, or are you getting a brief from them and going, okay, cool, this is what you've given me. I I'm going to ask you back what you've given me. So we're crystal clear on where to start.

Dale Koerner:

The best thing that I find is jumping on a call with the client and just being like okay, so if we're actually talking to someone, so whether it's Teams or whether it's on the phone.

John Hayler:

In person is always better, but asking them a specific set of questions, okay, so what are the goals of your brand for? So if we're doing a brand, for example, what are the goals of your brand? Um, where do you see yourself in five years? It's almost like a kind of interview um scenario. Okay, but it's the best way to find those clear goals. Um, and it could be.

John Hayler:

Are there any specific colors you're after? Is there any specific typography you're after? So you kind of approach it from Is there any specific typography you're after? So you kind of approach it from a. If they've got a clear idea of what they want, a client might say I really like green and blue, or I really like yellow and blue, or I really like a sans serif typeface. Cool, right, so we know we're looking at that, we're not looking at something else. At the same time, it's like okay, so do I interject and kind of bring my own spin on it, or do I just go and focus on what they're after, which is essentially what they want is what they want? But sometimes you think, oh, actually, if I did that, that's actually quite a cool little thing. So I'll put it in there and see if they'll like it as an alternative to what they've actually asked for.

John Hayler:

Just to bring it up a little bit more.

Louis Bolton:

I've tried something like this. Have a look at it and tell me what you think. Okay, and how is that received? On most occasions.

John Hayler:

On most occasions, some clients may go oh, that's really cool, I like that. Or they are very specific about what they want. Thank you, yeah, it's cool, but no, okay, but then it's another idea that could be used for a future client. One thing I hate to do is come up with a whole bunch of logos and go cool, so you picked one. I've got like 99 left. Let's just bank those, because there could be something there for another client, right, okay, but yeah, for me, communication, 100%, 100% and just sitting down talking to the client, seeing what they specifically want, because you know I can't jump into their brain and go, oh yeah, there it is, and it's a question of let's get it down.

Louis Bolton:

Eliciting that information from them.

John Hayler:

Absolutely Okay.

Louis Bolton:

And then what they are looking for. I mean clients from in the B2B space. When they come to you, they're looking for, like you said, either a capability document or a logo or a whole brand redesign or a refresh. When do you get to the point of saying you need to really think about what you're doing here, because what you've got is good enough, or we need to change it completely. Because what you've got is good enough, or we need to change it completely? How much autonomy do you have? Or where do you get to the point of the client of actually having a conversation and going? We need to go in a different direction.

John Hayler:

It would be a question of, I don't know, sometimes stepping back from what you've done. Is you know, just to sort of see the scope of what you've done so far, because if you're in it too much, I find that you tend to get a bit of creative block. So going for a walk clearing head, thinking about, okay, so I've done this, maybe if I could change that, and then going back to the client and saying, look, we've had a look. This layout, so say for this website, for example, this layout doesn't seem to be working. I've done this In terms of flow. It flows better, it looks better, it's got more of a, a rhythm to it.

John Hayler:

Yeah, more of a rhythm to the actual website. But yeah, I'm always happy to talk to a client and say, yep, I like it, but I feel that we could do a little bit more it's so interesting you say that because you know they talk about they.

Louis Bolton:

Sometimes I feel the word creativity is bandied about too easily. You know I'm a creative.

Louis Bolton:

Yeah, everyone's creative yeah, absolutely but I do find I mean especially with that you know the video work that I do and you know the podcasting and when I'm editing um other brand videos or corporate videos for for clients sometimes you actually have to step away because you get so into it that you can't see the wood for the trees, and that is something that I think sometimes a client needs to appreciate, where you actually do need to go for a walk or actually leave it for a couple of days, maybe even a week, for you to almost forget about it and then come back to it, look at it again and go, go, yep, this is spot on. I'm still very happy with this, or no, we can change it up. So I think that's a very important part of that customer journey and that customer relationship, because it is about relationship and it's building that trust between an expert in the field of you knowing what you're doing and they having. Well, obviously they want to make money and you're in a business, but it's that relationship that is key.

Louis Bolton:

I have to bring up sort of the elephant in the room because I know this is. It's so interesting listening to the conversation around the water cooler, so to speak, and the office is Canva and the democratization of creativity and the use of that. What do you? Let's not open a can of worms, or let's open a use of that. Let's not open a can of worms. Well, let's open a can of worms. Canva is a very useful tool and it's a great tool.

John Hayler:

It is, but I've got a love-hate relationship with Canva. It's really useful for collaboration, which I know Adobe has introduced through software like InDesign, so I can export a PDF, send a link to one of the clients, say please put some comments on, and I can see those updates come in like they're live. Essentially Cool, all right. So this thing's changing, change it, update the link done, and it was just a constant thing. Canva's a little bit different because I could give you the login or share something with you and we could work on that document together. So collaboration is really good for Canva. I think there's a few little things they need to work out. So like, if I'm trying to bold one word in a text box, it bolds the whole thing. It really annoys me because I'm like I just want this one word. Why can't I do the whole thing? It's ridiculous.

Louis Bolton:

So where do you see? I mean like Canva is like you say. The Canva is a great tool for collaboration and you can get a lot done and it's across. You know the various platforms, et cetera, et cetera, but it has its limitations. It does. Do you then take? I mean, how would it work with a client? Because Canva is not the be all and end all of something, but it's in our awareness, it's out there. When do you almost get to speak to a client and go this needs to be done? I don't want to use the word professionally, but in another software. Or is a piece of software a piece of software?

John Hayler:

Well, you could do it in Word, but I've had to design stuff in Word Really and I hate.

Louis Bolton:

Oh, really, I didn't know you could do that.

John Hayler:

There's a few things I've had to design in Word which I'm not really a fan of because it's very, you know, there's no layers.

John Hayler:

Yeah, sure it is literally Put it in. Okay, I've got to move that behind that. Oh, I've got to go to this menu when clicking, trying to find something and just going that's insane. Just take a deep breath, start again. So something that would have taken me a couple of hours in InDesign or in Canva. It's taken me like a couple of days to do Word and this is like maybe a 10-page document.

Louis Bolton:

But essentially it's good for the client likes to work that way and they might be masters of word you know the champions of word but for me design software is where it's really where it's at for me john, I wanted to ask you about, you know, through all your journey um with with learning design and and being in it and having a love for it, the how do you find and I want to use the word pop culture? How does that influence your day-to-day thinking about logo design or design, versus bringing that into a B2B space, because I think it has a huge effect without people realizing? That it seeps into the subconscious, doesn't it, yep?

John Hayler:

The way I see pop culture is. You know you've got film, tv, music and that's going to have a huge influence on everything. You know pop culture has a huge influence on my work. So, like TV shows that I watch, like you can see colour schemes, you can see typography that's, you know, creeping into everything.

John Hayler:

Yeah, and how it changes over time, yeah yeah, um, the thing I find as well is that you know you could have something that's influenced at the time of pop culture. So you know, we've got like, um, stranger things that came out 100 last couple of years and then all of a sudden there's like a whole 80s thing starts coming out. Um, and uh, yeah, yeah, but it's got to be timeless. You know, something that can carry over a good few years, not just be like, oh yeah, that's when Stranger Things came out.

Louis Bolton:

Is there anything that comes to mind that has sort of been timeless in your, you know, in your view of the world?

John Hayler:

I'll tell you one thing that I think is quite timeless is the Alien like?

Louis Bolton:

Alien franchise, that whole franchise, so that typography.

John Hayler:

I mean that's Helvetica. Helvetica is like what, 70 years old now or something like that, but that's been used. Yeah, it's timeless. And the way that typography appeared. The first time I saw that appearing on the screen in just sections. I was like that's really really cool and with the recent one that came out and they've recreated that in the titles. So that's perfect, that is perfect.

Louis Bolton:

It's a great example.

John Hayler:

Yeah, it's great, even Jaws. Jaws is such an iconic film, iconic film. But that typography and even the colour schemes that you see in films. I mean that poster is blue, white and red. Yeah, you know that's, but it's bang on.

John Hayler:

Simple but it works. Yeah, and that's what's so great about pop culture. And then even more modern pop culture stuff where you've got like kid shows like Adventure Time. I can't wait for my daughter to be old enough to watch that, because I love that show. It's perfect for adults, it's perfect for kids, it's great. And yeah, just seeing like those bright, vivid colors you know you've got blues, yellows, greens you know they're just so sharp and in your face that, yeah, they could be used in anything from logo design to posters.

Louis Bolton:

How do you stop a brand from being boring? And the reason I ask is because we've had a few conversations that, um, it's almost sometimes they limit themselves. Um, and I know that sometimes logos have a heritage and they've. They have a long history, so you're not trying to mess with that heritage. But the cost of being boring and dull has come up time and time again. But then on the flip side to that is brand consistency, of being consistent so that you can remain top of mind, and awareness so that you can obviously do business and bring in the leads and do the business. Your thoughts on that?

John Hayler:

Things like Apple, mcdonald's, nike. It's all down to semiotics that interpretation of signs and symbols. Red means stop, or it means love or anger. Green means go, nature, jealousy, all those kinds of things Right. So in your subconscious you see the golden arches of McDonald's.

Louis Bolton:

Yeah.

John Hayler:

That's McDonald's. Yeah, subconscious. You see the golden arches of McDonald's? That's McDonald's. You see the Apple symbol? That's Apple computers. Some brands are so iconic they don't need that refresh, Even brands like NBC. There's a brand course that I did not too long ago and how the logo started and how it slowly evolved over time, but now it's at a point where it is quite an iconic brand yeah absolutely. But you can't just refresh all the time like every couple of years. I've been guilty of it before, but that's when I was freelancing.

Louis Bolton:

But I think you've got to go through that You've got to go through that experience to realize okay well, I need to step back and actually let something it's fine and let that carry on and grow and mature Leave it.

John Hayler:

Give it time. Compound yeah. Yeah, I think I've done like maybe 10 rebrands of my own personal brand in my design career. But now I'm at a point where I'm like, actually I'm quite happy with that, I'm going to stick with that. That's good. But yeah, for iconic brands, it doesn't feel like they need it. I know Pepsi has one that's gone through quite a few changes. Yeah, it has, and there was that trend of like. Even now, Burger King have gone back to their branding for the 80s. Actually it's a lot better.

Louis Bolton:

Like it should have just kept it better, like you should have just kept it. So that's what I'm saying. It's almost that it's the cost of doing too much, yeah, and then breaking something again.

Louis Bolton:

We didn't need to break it, you didn't need to go back to what we had what we had because it was working and all of a sudden, sales go up and the recognition is there, isn't it? Okay, I'm sort of coming wrapping this whole, this hot, this whole journey up. You've been in a freelance world, you've, um, you've, obviously, you know, you've been in the commercial world and now you've in the sort of corporate b2b space. What would you say, say to clients, what would you ask of them to help you along with this journey? Things that they need to think about, um, when, when, when, talking to a graphic designer we have spoken about earlier but just later on in this conversation, what would you ask of them?

John Hayler:

Preparation is everything.

Louis Bolton:

And what does that look like, Joe? What would that look like?

John Hayler:

Ideally not a PNG logo in a vector file. It doesn't make it a vector file, so things like that, just making sure that the right file types are being sent to work with any imagery that's being sent through is it a decent resolution.

John Hayler:

It asks if you don't know. Yeah, absolutely. And communication always back to communication yeah, just having the right files ready for the designer to work with. Brand guidelines are always helpful, so there's already pre-existing brand guidelines there. So making sure we're using the right typography, using the right color scheme in the right workspace at RGB or CMYK, it makes the designer's life a hell of a lot easier. But one of my real bugbears is images in a Word document. This is one of my. I hate it, I can't stand it. So you've heard that.

John Hayler:

No images in a word document, because it is just going to be really poor quality. Um, but yeah, it's just those little things, those little bugbears, and every designer has, you know, has them um, comic sans. I mean, that's a given for almost every designer. There's probably one out there that enjoys it, but uh, it's like a sweet it is.

John Hayler:

It is, I agree with you, um, and I see, like these uh, there's a page I follow on instagram that, um is all design memes essentially right, and it just every time I see one like yes, that's happened to me okay, so design memes on instagram, yeah so designers humor is uh what it's called, and if you're a designer and you want to laugh or just creative and want to have a laugh, designers humor okay, um, but uh, yeah, preparation and communication any other resources that you follow just along the theme of instagram, any other resources that are worth knowing, that you find helpful for yourself on your journey and constant learning on the design journey so I mean, there's quite a few pages I actually managed to find through instagram and there's little things that myself and shannon have found on there that we share with each other, like one, for example, the other day.

John Hayler:

There's the auto fit for a text box in indesign and it's been there for who knows how long and I tried it. I was like what, why am I not using this? I have my life back it's like, it's okay, it just saves so much time, um, and there's little things like that, but there's, um, yeah, a whole bunch of creatives that I follow on, uh, instagram. Uh, one in particular I found really useful is a guy called made by James.

John Hayler:

He's a brand and logo designer, um, and he gives really good advice and free advice and just little things that's on instagram and um, yeah, I've, you know, on his mailing list, I've got his book and it's just really straight to the point, honest advice and it's really really useful. So not just digital, but also, um, you know, actually holding a book there's I've still got my books from university all of those things that I keep around me just to kind of be inspired and just to remind myself of certain traits or aspects.

Louis Bolton:

I love that. I love that, the tactile feeling of that as well actually being able to turn the page and actually look at something non-digitally.

John Hayler:

Yeah, which is going back to when I was making album artwork. Like holding it in your hand and looking at it, looking at the CD or looking at the vinyl or the little sheet that's on the inside and seeing the song lyrics and actually those tangible things you can hold and look at, is yeah. For me that's. You know, it's a good feeling as a creative.

Louis Bolton:

I hope you've got an LP collection that you can show your daughter.

John Hayler:

I do Because they will not have a clue what we are talking about. She'll be like what are CDs, dad?

Louis Bolton:

What? All right. Last question Anything that I haven't asked you in terms of desire in your journey, or a special ask, or something that you'd like to tell the audience, or ask the audience that I haven't asked you? John?

John Hayler:

Trying something new creatively is probably just like a good, good, small good piece of advice I could probably offer. There's so many design tools out there, digital and traditional, and you know, pick up a pencil, try out canva.

Louis Bolton:

I know I feel a little bit dirty saying that, but yeah this's what they we didn't touch on, though, um and it's the, it's the proliferation of ai. How does that affect you know, we keep getting told, you know they're coming for your jobs. They're coming for your jobs, but obviously they wouldn't. I have my own thoughts about that, but that's maybe a discussion for another time, but just just briefly your thoughts on on how that has affected your design journey it's for me.

John Hayler:

I know I shouldn't view ai as a tool, but it is like it's just another. It feels like another tool in my arsenal. So if I am in photoshop, I can just remove something super easily now or I can extend the picture, which is great, like it saves me having to clone, stamp or try and find an image that works with you. But it's really, really useful in. It's like a personal assistant, the way I say it like AI is my personal assistant. So my website coding I've always been interested in not super great at it.

John Hayler:

So as I used AI to help me with a lot of aspects of my website how to like center align an image or how to make the nav bar and I've had friends who are really skilled with coding who have helped me in the past and rather than be like, hey, can you just help me with this again, it just feels I can get my answer straight away. So, yeah, yeah it's useful in some senses, but yeah, it's to me it still feels like a tool. It's not. I don't feel like it's coming for my job. It can do some really great results. It's really fantastic results, but it's still adding a couple of extra fingers to people's hands, though still got a lot, a lot to learn, but yeah, it'll get there.

John Hayler:

It will get there.

Louis Bolton:

But I agree, I think I share the sentiment with you that if you view it as a tool, it can definitely make your life easier. And it's here, yeah.

John Hayler:

It's not going anywhere and we should embrace it with the fact that, as creatives, it's going to be able to help us with a lot of things, but what's up here is what really counts in terms of creativity.

Louis Bolton:

I love that. I think that's a good place to end it off. I just want to thank you for your time and your sharing, and I don't think it's going to be the last time we actually have a chat. So, John, thank you very much for your time. Thank you.

Dale Koerner:

That's that. Thanks for listening to. We Do. B2b by Blue Ocean. Now brace for CTAs. If you want to join and grow the community, make sure to subscribe. Wherever your eyes and ears absorb information, don't forget to switch on notifications so you know when the latest episodes drop. And for more B2B goodness, be sure to follow Blue Ocean, the B2B agency, on LinkedIn. Now look, you know how this next piece works. The more reviews we get, the faster this thing grows. So please do for us what you hope your customers would do for you leave a review and share your thoughts. Let's stay connected and keep the b2b marketing conversation going.

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Dale Koerner

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