B2B Inspired
B2B Inspired, the podcast by BlueOcean - The B2B Agency, is all about exploring the ins, outs, ups and downs of B2B Marketing here in Aotearoa, New Zealand. We'll uncover emerging trends and thinking while sharing inspiring real-world stories from B2B Marketers here in New Zealand. With the goal of supporting New Zealand’s B2B Marketing community in becoming one of the best and brightest anywhere in the world, let’s roll up our sleeves and take on tomorrow together.
B2B Inspired
Building Business With Purpose with David & Julie Hayes
From humble beginnings to a global brand, BeeNZ is a family-owned business redefining what’s possible in New Zealand’s honey industry. In this episode of B2B Inspired, founders David and Julie Hayes share their journey of building BeeNZ from the ground up.
They talk about taking big risks, learning the export game, and balancing the pressures of running a business together. From navigating compliance and logistics to crafting a brand story that resonates internationally, their experience is packed with lessons for business owners ready to grow.
For more B2B insights, ideas and opportunities, head to www.blueoceanagency.co.nz
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Let’s roll up our sleeves and take on tomorrow together.
Thank you, ecosystem. We're here to help the New Zealand B2B community to become one of the best, boldest and brightest anywhere in the world. Now if, like me, you live and breathe all things business to business and you're looking for a place to connect, learn and be inspired, you have come to the right place. Now let's join Lee Hunter over in the studio.
Speaker 2:Welcome to a B2B inspired podcast. If you've ever dreamed of building a branch from scratch and taking it to the world, you know it takes more than a great product. It takes grit, vision and often a bit of Kiwi ingenuity. So if that's you, you've come to the right place. In today's episode, we're joined by husband and wife team David and Julie Hayes from BNZ, new Zealand's premium honey brand. From humble beginnings in Katikati to exporting honey around the globe, their journey is truly an example of what's possible when business and purpose come together. We'll explore how BNZ started, what it's like balancing partnership and business, the realities of selling direct versus contract manufacturing and what they've learned from taking their brand to international markets. Welcome David, welcome Julie. Great to have you both here.
Speaker 3:Thanks for letting us come and join you.
Speaker 2:Cool, so let's dig into it. I know a bit of background, but, julie, why don't you start by just sharing? Where did BNZ start?
Speaker 3:I'm going to flip back to David, because it was David's dream it originated up in here. We were horticultural mainly.
Speaker 4:And then we broke into the apicultural side and we were extracting and putting honey in drums and I, over the years, were watching them disappear from the yard, always interested in that last little stage of it, which is a big stage of it. Anyway, the boys were very interested in the apiculture and I could see for us to grow to fit them, to fit the business, and we would have to duplicate a lot of what we were doing and I didn't see a long-term future there as far as they would be away a lot, a lot of travel, a lot of risk. So I thought, well, the old fellas should get out of the way with these young fellas. They're way better at it than me. So this is hence why I decided we'll go into the finishing and so I tried, all down to an orchard we had at tetley road that was zoned heavy industrial and pulled a block of kiwi fruit out and just naivety is fantastic Just gave it a hang of a nudge and built this shed which we're very proud of.
Speaker 4:But during it you probably should get orders before you build a factory. But I did it at the farmer's when I did it build the factory and let the orders come. So that's how the building came about.
Speaker 2:So how did the decision happen at home? Did you just go home and say, Julie, I'm seeing this product disappear. I want to control that process. Let's do it.
Speaker 3:Pretty much.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:We discussed it a little bit.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I walked in and I said there's something to this other, the end of this, and it would create space for the family to fly with me getting out of that way a bit and letting those guys wear their magic. And it was like, oh, let's do this. In my head it was let's do this. And then, wow, julie just took it to the next level.
Speaker 2:Did you know what was involved when that top bag hit you? I?
Speaker 3:had no idea. I would have probably fought tooth and nail not to have done it If I had any idea. No, it was good David built the shed and we made sure that we built the shed resellable. So if our business plan for BNZ didn't work out, we'd build an industrial building that we could sell, you know, recoup or leave out and recoup some of that capital. Probably maybe wouldn't have done it if we didn't already own the land, the industrial land, because that would have been a huge capital expense to go and find that yeah and then also build the building um.
Speaker 3:but yeah, so for the year it took to build and put all the infrastructure and that, during that year I, david, focused on that project. I sort of focus on getting the trademark, building the brand story, putting some marketing, marketing material, finding some orders, finding a market. So we sort of worked parallel to each other for that first year and then, once the building was built and we'd got all our certifications through, then we all sort of joined forces and started working from there. Right, david has the big ideas and I do the detail.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I create a bit of trouble, that's okay.
Speaker 2:Now obviously it's a big stepping stone. For the first 12 months You've got the land, you've built the factory. Now obviously you have to have the factory in terms of managing end product. You can't just ship it somewhere else to get it made.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we could have, and we could have. We could have done that, but we chose to do it ourselves. There's a rental behind it. We bought the brand and then got someone else to contract me. You know, supply the honey and get someone else to pack it and put it in the jars for us. But there wasn't anyone really local that could do that for us. So that was David's dream to build it, so we could do it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then it's like it's like half running a race, isn't it? Yeah, and then it's like half running a race, isn't it? We're doing the nudge, the big nudge, to go from paddock to plate and fill that right the way through, and that's been a great challenge, some of it really rough, some of it really tough, but it's been a great challenge.
Speaker 2:So you had the goal to own that piece. What was the vision, what was the purpose behind building that company? Was it for you to get back to the younger generation and manage them, or was it something more personal, that you wanted to leave something behind? What was? What was the driver?
Speaker 3:probably a lot of a lot of things for for me it was, um, obviously the horticulture, apiculture side of things was sort of in our succession plan for our sons. So this for me was building something for me and David. Maybe it's our retirement fund, maybe it's our passive income as we get older. It was building a little bit of a legacy, something for the community. It's always really good to build something that takes on employment of all different trades and we've enjoyed that. But I think, yeah, I think probably more of a legacy for me and that's where it is in my head.
Speaker 4:And the truth is, with the amount of things we've learnt and been challenged if we hadn't have done it well, I mean, look what we missed out on.
Speaker 3:It's been a growth journey, definitely yeah.
Speaker 2:What were some of the toughest early lessons?
Speaker 4:For me it was completing the shed, getting over that milestone and going all right, we're ready to go full of gear and we're away. Never done it before and then realizing whoa, we actually need a lot of honey. That's when it really dawned on me that things were getting more and more serious then in this stage.
Speaker 3:Sort of the capital out there. Yeah, capital for a print.
Speaker 3:yeah, and it was a huge risk, but we're quite into our bit of risk. Probably the toughest thing for me at the start was the hours to try and encompass everything. I had to learn everything from compliance and regulation to export logistics, to sales and marketing, and that wasn't. The only thing I've trained to do is be a stylist for a photographer, so I was way out of my comfort zone. We just reached out to as many people as we could. Trained to do is be a stylist for a photographer so it was.
Speaker 3:I was way out of my comfort zone um yeah, we just reached out to as many people as we could uh for some help and who do you lean on in those times?
Speaker 3:when I first started I leaned on Maytrak, um Air and Ocean. They were fabulous to help me with the logistics. There's some really key stuff that helped me at the beginning. That is still there and we work really closely with um. New zealand trade and enterprise had been amazing. Um, when we first started I was only sort of on the lowest level of support but they still had lots of resources available to help identify markets and sort of put some export planes in place and then our relationships grown stronger with them as we've got bigger. So they were amazing. Chamber of Commerce helped a little. Some New Zealand or Bay Plain export networking events definitely helped to. You know. Chat to other exporters, business Women's Network has been good. So just as many people as I could find out information from but most of it was sort of from learning on the job and from our suppliers were probably our biggest support.
Speaker 2:A lot of real life learning.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yep. Lots of tears, lying on the floor in the office till midnight trying to figure out what I was doing, but it was worth it.
Speaker 2:A lot of pressure on each other during that first year or two.
Speaker 3:I think so.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, yes, but it's like everything You've got to work your way through there and we did, and I'm still. I know the effort that went into creating it and the amount of hours and pain in there, but I'm still really, really proud of where Julie is and what she's achieved in that and I've learned a lot. It's been good for me, too.
Speaker 3:It was just time. I think it just consumed all of our time because we didn't have an amazing team around us at the start and that slowly bulked up over the now. Um, now it's completely different.
Speaker 4:We've got fabulous team and and it's a pleasure going to work and I suppose by starting the way we did and we had to learn it all. So at that time you know, I knew the floor, I knew the machinery. That's changed now there's a lot of new machinery in there and I have to sort of go back in and get taught that a bit again. But we both knew because we did it all.
Speaker 2:We both know how it's been done and now other people are doing that a lot more for us now than we always started so, if you look back on the first year or two, what's something you wish you knew or you could share with somebody else in a similar situation? I've got a vision. I've got a goal. I'm going for it. I'm going to kick that box.
Speaker 4:I have a philosophy that you're better to be naive. Sometimes Too much overanalyzing, too much study creates nervousness. Talk yourself out of it. It's so easy to say no, I'm not going to do that, it's too scary. Sometimes it's better just to look at the goal that you're heading to and get stuck into it and get there.
Speaker 3:That's my take on it.
Speaker 4:Not sure for me Um you just did it again, so much yeah, it's all sort of a bit of a blur because how long are we in now?
Speaker 2:how long has the journey been? 10, 10 years yeah, yeah, um we've.
Speaker 3:I'm not sure. I think the biggest learning for me is it's been stepping. I've had to step outside my comfort zone so many times and this is an example, um, but you know, like I'm not a salesperson and yet here I found myself the last 10 years selling, selling, selling who we are selling our baby and and at ourselves and it's I found it. I have found it really really difficult, got some great people around me that can help me do that. Now, um, but for me it's been the pitching and the sales and almost have a little bit of that imposter syndrome and sort of you have to suck it up and think, yes, you know, we are worthy of telling our story and yeah, and you know, we want clients, we are worthy of packing clients, aren't we? Because we can do it really well. So for me it's a little bit of being a. That's been probably my biggest challenge.
Speaker 4:Mental, mental challenge really well. So for me it's a little bit of being a. That's been probably my biggest challenge mental mentor challenge. I think that the edge that it gave us too was is that we built a state-of-the-art factory at the time to to a very, very high level, and a lot of our competitors as such or other people in the industry were in some quite old establishments, and so that has helped us immensely to gather the client's confidence and also see us sort of in that premium rent.
Speaker 4:And that's something that we wouldn't have been able to achieve by A farming it out or B not building any facility.
Speaker 3:And I think we saw the opportunity where there was a gap.
Speaker 3:Um, it was like right in the heyday of new zealand manuka honey and the world was waking up to this amazing product. Um, and there was only a limited amount of packing facilities in new zealand, probably 80 of which just packed their own brand. So for us to open a facility that we focused on our own brand but also had the ability to contract manufacture for other brands because we were brand new, our lead times were like zero. So that's what was attractive to our first two contract clients. They were one Malaysia, one Singapore based, had been packing with another New Zealand packer at the time, but their lead times were very long, like six to eight weeks. They were concerned about quality issues. So, because we were new at their lead times, yeah, it was great. And they're still with us today and they pretty much I take my hat off they help BNZ be where it is now, because without them jumping on board with us at the start and having that little bit of predictable revenue coming through, yeah, we might not have made it 10 years.
Speaker 2:Was it always the vision to have a facility that you can do contract manufacturing as well as selling direct, or was that just by chance?
Speaker 4:No, it was part of the plan, Part of the plan for you very much and became probably a more solidified part of the plan.
Speaker 3:Part of the plan for you very much and became probably a more solidified part of the plan at the end of the first 12 months when you realise how much capital and time and resource it takes to develop and build your iBrand. Where contract manufacturing is, you know we put everything we can into it to get it to support. Then, once it's in port, it's not our responsibility or cost to us to get it on shelf and then off shelf into that consumer's hands. So for us it's like the bread and butter and the developing our own brand in the background sort of just adds a little bit more value and that's the pudding really.
Speaker 2:Yeah so, looking back, what are the pros and cons versus selling direct, versus the contract manufacturing piece?
Speaker 3:pretty much sort of just elaborate more on what I said. So developing our own brand takes a lot more capital. It's a bit more of a slower climb. It's a lot more risk. Where contract manufacturing is that predictable income I have from my clients. They give us a forecast of what their PO is for the year so we know what work's coming in the cost to. Like I said, get it onto a shelf and then off a shelf and assume it's not ours. But then there is that risk of a contract manufacturer client moving. So they might be with us this year but they might choose to go somewhere else next year when it's our own brand. Yes, it takes a lot more time and resource to get into a reseller and a sales channel, but then it's up to us. We sort of have a bit more control, staying there longer, a bit more movement on price too, and can quickly pivot to what's happening overseas for our own brand.
Speaker 4:I actually enjoy doing bow.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it gives you the power of the team, because we're doing both and we can have a great team and fulfill that. If we were focusing solely on, perhaps, our own brand, like Julie said, it would have been just a slower, a slower climb, and that's always really hard to have the terrific staff like we've got now with a slow climb. So, yes, the mechanism, I mean we dream about more and more for BNZ, but we also have our rumors, I suppose, that when it's a little slow we've still got a lot of work. So that's what we try to.
Speaker 3:And because we export the world's so huge it would take a lot of time and financial resource to cover the whole world for sales. So we focus on areas that our contract clients aren't in. So our contract clients are Australia, malaysia, Singapore. So we focus our brand in the US, emirates and Europe in different territories, so that sort of allows a little bit more capital or resources we send to more focused areas rather than try to spread over everywhere.
Speaker 2:And when negotiating on the contract manufacturing piece, because you've got your own brand, do you think that helps? Because you've got the trust you've done it for yourself, they're going. You've done it for yourself, you can do it for me I think so because we do.
Speaker 3:We really make sure that we put the same care into our own brand as we, you know, into our clients as we do for our own brand.
Speaker 3:Um, I think by having our own brand and gone globally with it, I can understand better how much it actually takes for our clients to get it on shelf and off shelf. So we're really equipped with our communication. We share ideas, we share a little bit of product development. If we're developing something for our own brand, we might give some of our contract clients the opportunity to do something similar. We try and hold most of our product development under our own brand though, rather than spend all that time and resource and then give it away, but we will help some of our top end customers develop their products. Yeah, I think it's just an understanding of how hard it is out there in that retail space, especially through the last few years I mean, it's been so many changes yeah, and understanding different regulations and different you know certifications that are required, I think is definitely out by understanding that sales side of it not just the manufacturer.
Speaker 2:So if we then look at the global approach, this is how you built your business here in New. Zealand. How did you go global? How did this, this, where was the first customer? How did that even start?
Speaker 3:it was Singapore. Our private label client, um, was the first one that came to us. Well, first of all we were developing BNZ in the background and we had some New Zealand stockists, um, and then it was like, where do we go with BNZ, um, and through the Singapore, malaysian private label customers, we I, got to travel and understand a little bit about it in market and then we went to China. So China was our first BNZ sale. We, we traveled over there and I was very, very fortunate to have a darling friend that understands business and is of Chinese origin. So she came with me as my support and translator and we just met with some importers and resellers and had like a week of meetings and chose one from there and that was where we started and then we just grew. Then we had Italy and Switzerland. Actually, our resellers there found us, came to us. So yeah, we've been pretty fortunate with people have come to us more than me having to go and seek customers.
Speaker 2:And how do you find the difference, not just in culture, but in your ideal customer? Because obviously, someone from China or Singapore versus someone in New Zealand, they're going to be very different. So how do you adapt your offering to those people, if it is your own brand, versus contract manufacturing? Because if it's your own brand, you've got your own story behind it. Does that resonate across the globe or do you have to adapt it?
Speaker 4:I think it resonates. I think having again that story from supply from the paddock to the plateway gives them confidence that yes, you do have a honey supply and yes, you do finish it really beautifully. And so it's sort of and we're a very family-based operation and we hope that runs through our staffing as well, and we hope that runs through our staffing as well that people sort of from overseas will fall in love a bit with the way we are.
Speaker 3:And when we do choose to work with a private label and resellers, I do quite a bit of work in understanding what their values are behind their company and make sure that we only work with people that we're aligned with, that do value our family values and our stance on sustainability and environment and looking after people and be welfare. We really make sure that we choose partners that have aligned values. We've said no to some because they just don't align with us and while it might look really rosy and you know and be great for the company's revenue, it it's not as a long-term sustainable thing if we're not, if we're not, aligned. So, um, yeah, we work really, yeah, we work a lot at finding people that are aligned with us and I think that that's why we're still with that.
Speaker 4:It's pretty tough to do the gym for someone if you don't like them. Oh, I'm sorry, it's them, yeah, sorry. Being really truthful is like why do it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so the brands that you know, private label brands that we work with, one's still a family business 180 years on and they're all about wellness. So we're really trying to work with that. Now. Resellers in Europe and China are the same they're about wellness, they're about the same values and I think if they have the same values, even though it hasn't got Beanshead brand on, they've chosen us as a supplier because we have those values and I think that still carries through the quality of the pot and it's got their brand. So their consumers still confident that, yes, they're purchasing from the brand and family they know, but they have confidence that the supply's from the same. So, yeah, the private brands that we do manufacture for do tell our story and they encompass it in their own.
Speaker 2:Because you've got the New Zealand brand, the New Zealand Good, clean Story, you've got your family values that pull it together. I mean, just honey is the goodness right. So you match all that together and you've got a really strong baseline to actually tell the globe. Do you see the New Zealand story helping the sale of your product or do you think it's?
Speaker 3:Definitely, but it's sort of like, because we're a new zealand product. It's not like we're making a peanut butter that's made all around the world. We're making a, you know, predominantly exported manuka honey. Um, a new zealand honey, so it's a new zealand product anyway. Um, but we do use nz stories marketing material resources that are available when telling um our story around the world and it's definitely still very much that clean, green New Zealand consumers recogniser More so lately, more about, oh, I wish we lived down there with what's going on in the world. But yeah, being from New Zealand definitely helps.
Speaker 2:Now we've spoken a lot about aligning values husband and wife duo. How easy was it to balance marriage and business? If we look at the first couple of years, because that's obviously the most stressful to now, does it just get easier?
Speaker 4:Can I join? Julie and I had done a fair bit of business with the horticultural side when we were younger too, so we were familiar to those type of pressures not as intense, but we were quite familiar with it. We always had a philosophy when the kids were little, my boots been off at the door and that's where the rubbish stayed, and we've been very, very good at not getting wound into those conversations until the next day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we do try. That's probably our strongest rule is don't talk work at home, because you're only home for such short hours out of your day, really, and it can just wind you up. Unless there's something that we need to, that we need to discuss.
Speaker 4:If it's personal, you know staffing laws, that's a definite. But some of the other things they can wait.
Speaker 3:We're sort of our sounding board on to each other. But yeah, we do have different communications though. So I think for me, even though we've been in businesses together, I've usually worked outside of those businesses full-time, and so this developing BNZ was the first full where I've worked full-time in our business. Um, but yeah, like I'm, I'm very, I say what I think, when I think, and very, quite abrupt and direct, and that comes across. Yeah, definitely that comes across differently. And if David is the ideas man and my personality is, I ask as soon as this isn't, I ask lots of questions because for me that's how I process, I need to know more about it, but that can come across as don't you trust me, like a negative thing. So I think we've learned to understand each other's communication skills a little better.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and just respect each other's lane. That's the big one. Her strengths are just way superior to mine.
Speaker 3:Only in some areas, but then yours are yeah just respect that lane.
Speaker 4:You're just so good at that and I'm not very good over there, but I'll get it done and I think we're in. Yeah's been a big, big help on second guessing each other. Just you know that she's got it and hopefully she knows I've got it, and that just cuts out a lot of micromanaging each other questioning each other on every aspect. Yes, things cost heaps, and sometimes you just got to set that up, but because it's just what it is.
Speaker 2:What it is yeah, you can't do that. Do you think you've learned more about each other from the business challenges as well, not just personal?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think so, definitely. I think I've been really proud to watch David grow through different things and hopefully he's proud of it. You know, like we are proud of our journey, we probably don't sit down and spend enough time reflecting back on what we had grow together.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that sometimes is a good thing not to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's good to know that we've got lots more today, and keep on chanting along for a game.
Speaker 2:Very humble approach. I mean you've built a global brand, you've got a contract manufacturing business, you've got the land. It sounds you're taking a lot of boxes, but I think your family values are what's holding you tightly knit, which is great to watch. You guys both complement each other. So if we look at, say, couples out there listening that are starting a business me and my wife we're starting a business and we come, dave and Julie, like we're about to start. This is costing a lot of money. We're getting into stress. Tell me something I really need to hear today to help me tomorrow.
Speaker 3:What are each of you going to tell me? I'm going to say make sure that you're both passionate about it. It's not just one person's dream that you're both passionate about it. It's not just one person's dream that you're both passionate about it. When there is financial and emotional aspects to something, just be careful. Just remember to treat each other with respect, because financial, you know financial.
Speaker 4:Comes and goes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, but is is when things get tough financially. That's when the emotions kick in. And and I suppose, when I would say, if there is something that you've got to work through with this business, talk. Remember to talk about the issue. It's not about each other's each other, like it's just both of you talk about what's the issue in the business. It's not talking about it like you haven't done this right or you need to do this more. It's actually how do we get there together? Because, yeah, when you are a bit strained financially and emotionally, it can get a bit rough. And so just remember to laugh, and David's always been at that when I'm going, he's always, like, tells a joke and makes me laugh.
Speaker 4:And then I've forgotten what I was grumpy about. I'd say uh, from my point of view, respect and being unselfish, the two key points, respect for each other and there and there is no. When you dig in, there is no. Oh well, you know, I'm just overstressed. I just need more and more time. I've got to do this and it it's like no, you took it on, get in there, get them done Instead of whinging Any white words. No, it's blood sugar. You're so gungy, not you?
Speaker 3:I'm just saying and the question was about partners.
Speaker 4:Oh no, it wasn't. I was asked how can we give anybody any? Sort of lift, and it's just that's it. That's what you're up for and that's what you're to do.
Speaker 3:And David said earlier about sticking in your lane and finding a lane, and that's probably quite true, because in a relationship you're not two similar people, you're usually actually quite two different people. So, going into business, before you do, sit down and recognize each other's strengths and weaknesses and you'll find that you're actually probably really compatible. And if you hear it out aloud and understand that in each other, then, like you say, you'll focus on something it might be your sales and marketing and the creator, and then the other person's, the compliance and the legal stuff. So you know, you'll find where those strengths and weaknesses are and there might be some wobbly gray areas that you both have to go and learn about. Or you choose between the couple you go and learn about that and I'll go and learn about that.
Speaker 4:And I think too that gives you a chance to go. Actually, we're both weak in this one aspect. With that good conversation, that's the one you can grab and contract that in. It might only be half a day a week, it could be two days a month or whatever that might mean to get that resource in that you just don't hold together.
Speaker 2:So, if I'm right, what I'm hearing is trust is key. You've got to have values that align and you've got to both have the same passion I mean the family values that you guys talk about. Center line is you've got to trust each other, know what each other's capable of, but equally support each other, but then, if anything falls back, you've got the values that are going to drive you. So, 10 years in, if we're looking back, I mean you said you're 10 years old now, right, it's not a great new idea. Today it was a 10-year. What gets you up in the morning? What's the driver to get through the next 10?
Speaker 4:Oh, to get through the next, me, both of you.
Speaker 3:Mine's my stuff. I actually really enjoy going into it. I really enjoy going into it. We have a really cool team and that goes back to their values and we have quite a strong culture and we have fun. Like I enjoy going to work. I've sort of got to the stage after 10 years, too, where I've learned every role, so everything I do now is more learning, and I quite like that. It doesn't seem so daunting and it's such a challenge anymore. Um, I love seeing our brand around the world. Um, and people finding Manuka honey full stop. Um, yeah, and I just it's.
Speaker 3:It's been there and now we have grandchildren, so it's like oh, is this legacy going to be still there in you know 10, 20 years' time when one of them might find an opportunity to work within the company? So yeah, I enjoy where we're at now. It's just putting together. Now is the strategy to get to the next stage. So do we want to stay at the level and size we are now, and happily to long, or do we want to grow it into something a little bit bigger? So that's sort of where we're at now.
Speaker 4:I think what gets me up is to better every part of it, like to the great staff, the key staff, the family, the financial side of it. To better that so everybody goes on that journey. And keeping good staff and good people in your business. You've got to try and keep enough food in front of them to want to be there as well. So making it exciting literally said Very cool. There is so much to do. Yeah as well. So making it exciting literally said very cool there is so much to do.
Speaker 3:I know, yeah, just got to make sure we have the passion, the energy to do it. Yeah, so this year we have actually been quite good at making sure we have some time out, where we haven't usually done that. So we, you know, making sure every six months we have a week away, just so we can take that breath, talk about the bigger picture stuff, and then you go back a little bit more refreshed.
Speaker 4:We don't. We just get excited when you get away.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but we talk, it's fun. So if you take that time to join, you go back a little bit more refreshed. Yeah, we haven't done that in the past. It's sort of like just work, work, work, and when we have had breaks we've had a lot of people with us, which is great. But, just taking some time for ourselves has been important.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, it's got to be Now. Last main business question what is the biggest misconception that you can help new business people understand better? What did you think was going to happen? That didn't happen?
Speaker 3:That the next startup business coming around the corner is going to think this is what's going to happen, but it's not that easy, I'll just get my crystal ball.
Speaker 4:You give that a yeah, the answer that I can highlight. Can I ask, could you repeat that last bit? Sorry, I was going good in my head until that last little bit.
Speaker 2:What do you think was the biggest misconception? What did you think was going to happen when you started BNZ? That never did, or wasn't as easy as you thought it would be.
Speaker 4:It wasn't as easy. I just thought seriously when I was is that what you're asking about building that? I just thought, oh, you just put these labels on these bots and they just sell themselves If the earth is going to go. That's where I go back to that point of sometimes being naive. Sometimes can really help, it can hit them, but sometimes, knowing it all, just stash it. That's about the only thing I could say is it's good to be a bit naive and just see nothing but amazing things, and then you sort of find that that's me.
Speaker 3:Mine's probably a bit cliche and people have probably heard it before, but it's like find your why, which you know. When you start a business, you know why you've done it, why you've done it. There's got to be some sort of and it might be a value, just why you're doing what you're doing. Find that, tagline it and have it everywhere. Have it on your wall, on your wallpaper, on your computer. Just have it with a bumper sticker so that you know what your why is.
Speaker 3:And you always refer back to that with every decision you make, whether it's how much money am I going to get loaned from the bank to what sort of coffee capsules am I going to put in my coffee machine, or who am I going to employ, how am I going to portray, how are you going to speak and how are you going to pitch? Always go back to your why and if you've got a really strong why and you're passionate about your company and you stick to that and it will mean you'll say no to some opportunities because it doesn't align with why you're doing it, and I think if you stay to that, then you've got longevity.
Speaker 2:Perfect. Yeah, they'll draw everything else you do within the business and everyone that joins your business will understand in a long run.
Speaker 3:And sometimes when it's bloody shit and you're in tears and nothing's working and you say why? You always say, why did I do this, like, why am I doing this? Then you think, oh, that's why that's right and it will pull you out of that slump.
Speaker 4:Cool.
Speaker 3:That's worked for me anyway, and you.
Speaker 2:A me, anyway, and you. A few quick fire questions to end this off, and I'll direct it to each of you as we go. David, if there was one part of your life over the last 10 years that you wish you outsourced to someone else instead of doing yourself, what would it be?
Speaker 3:I don't really have.
Speaker 2:That's a really hard quick fire question well, you've mentioned that sales for you is not something you wanted to do, which is why I thought for you see, I don't know how to do sales, but I love it.
Speaker 3:I was struck again, you can sell snow to the Eskimo and I was like he's amazing so you should have outsourced that to David then. You know, like if David wasn't so committed with our other entities and horticulture there, him travelling with me on our you know it would be, I'd love it and that's ultimately where I'd like to get. That was our brand, amazing.
Speaker 4:Would you like to answer that? First, Julian, and then I'll come as I'm lost, simon.
Speaker 2:It's fine, we can come back.
Speaker 4:There's nothing there I really dislike. That's perfect, that's brilliant.
Speaker 4:There's times and little bits, but there's nothing that I have in my day that I just go. I just really don't like doing this. I always like seeing everyone happy. So when any other team member isn't, I like to find out pretty quickly what's unravelling them. If it's something to do with where we are, I want to solve that. It could be their own, so I've got to let that go. But yeah, I can't think of anything I would say didn't lull Dylan. I mean, how are you doing?
Speaker 3:I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:That's fine. I mean, if you love everything you do, you sound like you're in the right place at the right time, doing the right thing.
Speaker 3:Before you asked me this question, like you two in or you one in, I probably would have had lots of things. So that's when we realised actually we need to outsource us. That's when we realize actually we need to outsource us.
Speaker 2:That's when you start building your team and handpicking who you want on the team and so yeah, but I think from listening to you two, I've learned that you have to do those jobs because the better you off, long term, you're going to learn more, you're going to go further faster by doing a lot of everything, and I think that's what I took away from listening to you guys today. You you have a lot of compassion and empathy for each other's jobs, but you're also really happy in what you did, which is fascinating to hear, because most people I hated doing this and I was in it for the money. You guys are all purpose-driven. It's all baddies, it's all family. It's a really well-knitted story.
Speaker 3:I think as founders you do learn everything because you know unless you've got an incredible risk appetite and you know a big money pot and risk appetite and you employ anybody from where you're going not many founders have the ability to do that. So you do tend to start small and learn every role yourself and then choose that which is important because we can step in and do any role you know.
Speaker 2:Cool. Next question for Julie how do you know when David's stressed he doesn't believe in that word.
Speaker 3:Stress.
Speaker 2:Doesn't he?
Speaker 3:No, we don't use it. We would rather say we were really busy. I think stress is a bit of a mental thing and you can let it get on top of you. But yeah, we get busy.
Speaker 4:Quite a faky note I don't understand. A bit too much for me. I think it's just work right. You're just really busy. Stress is that you've got a lot on your plate Busy as and you get through that. We'll get some times down. You were there.
Speaker 3:I think I pick it in David, if I know he hadn't had a good night's sleep. He's a.
Speaker 2:He's a early riser anyway, but if he's done the whole toss and turning and got up a little bit earlier than the wise thing, I think he's got a bit on his plate, yeah well, you did mention previously not overthinking things right, which I think does cause stress equally, and I think I've learned quite a bit about your mentality of get it done, focus, stop making it over complicated and do your job, which I quite value as well, and then, as I said, knitted between that strong foundation makes it really successful.
Speaker 3:And don't worry, like David Scott, there's a great saying don't put your umbrella up before it rains. And he often has to remind me of that because I tend to, because I'm the detail person. I'm like, oh, what if this is a great idea and we might do this, but what if it doesn't work? He's like, don't even entertain that, like let's just do it and we'll put our umbrella up and face it if it does rain and more often than not it doesn't.
Speaker 2:That's really good. That's a really good piece. I think that covers most of what we wanted to cover off today. Last question for both of you couples in business obviously work really hard and there's a lot of stress sometimes it's not always easy to see or pick up. That's something you mentioned today that I think is very important that you guys have just started doing, and that's taking time out. With businesses going into those first year or two, there's not that time to take out and it's not always fair to rely heavily on each other. So who else would you go to, who else would you lean on in those early stages to help you move faster, not just workload but emotionally?
Speaker 4:as well.
Speaker 4:You've got to have that first team.
Speaker 4:You've got to have a great band manager, manageress, manager, whatever.
Speaker 4:You've got to have a great accountant, one that you have good dialogue, not just your visitor you know once a year or check twice a year. You need to be, they need to come and see you and you need to have those sort of relationships so that, as that digging that hole begins of financial, they're right with you and they're actually telling you you're good, you're okay, you've got any equity or you've got this thing, because they're the bits from they would be the most stressful bit. If you don't talk about stress is financial and that will really upset a relationship faster than anything else. When you've got your rates due at home or whatever, or you're renting a place and you're struggling to meet that because you're pouring capital into your other business, that's the one that'll tip people. So I think getting that financial thing under control and not being selfish about your time and your money that you both need individually, because there is no such thing as that when you put your hand to the plough, You're earning your salaries.
Speaker 4:You've got to work that out well before to go right we're doing this and we're doing that, and we're doing it hard for three years, and that's just what you're going to do, if that's where you want to be. So those are the choices you have to make.
Speaker 2:That's a really good answer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you were so right about the beans in. I probably should have said that earlier too. It was like we've been fortunate, we've made sure that our bank managers and accountants along the journey have known our why, have known why we're doing. No, you Know why we're doing what we're doing and because we have other you know companies and entities in the background, how they all sort of knit together for BNZ and you know we communicate with them all the time. They almost become your friends because they know us so well and we know that's really important.
Speaker 4:And as you're moving, your business is moving, it's moving in some quite big digits and so you want them well on board and up to speed so you're not spending time wasted trying to bring them up, and I think that's a real help.
Speaker 2:Cool guys. So to wrap it up just quickly, I'm starting a business, as I said before, with my wife and we've come to you. You guys have been doing it for 10 years need some advice. How are you going to help?
Speaker 4:Anything you want to say, just that For me. I would just listen to your, listen to your story, your plan, and try to fill in the bits that without telling you what to do, the bits that I've made mistakes doing, and encourage you. But be really honest too, because if I thought that what you were doing was with the wrong people or because you've got to be honest, I'd tell you. But if I could see that there was a glimmer, I'd be giving it eights for you which I really.
Speaker 2:I'm fascinated with the discussion today the the value of communication, trust, values, ethics it's all so intertwined in making something successful and I really appreciate you guys sharing that story, not just as a husband and wife, but actually building a business off the back of that, tied in with a stunning product, obviously, the bees we got to thank right at the end of the day. They create such a stunning product. But thank you both for joining me today and sharing with the viewers. If you haven't seen it before, jump on to bnzconz, have a look at their product, or if you're looking at some new packaging, give them a shout. Thank you, dave and Julie.
Speaker 4:Thanks for having us.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much.
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