Designing Value That Sticks with Nicola O'Rourke

How do you build meaningful B2B experiences in a world where technology is accelerating faster than ever? In this episode of B2B Inspired, we sit down with Nicola O’Rourke, a commercial leader and NZTE Beachhead Advisor with a career spanning some of the most recognisable food and beverage brands in New Zealand and abroad.

Nicola shares practical insights on the evolving expectations of B2B customers, why trust and empathy are becoming strategic differentiators, and how the lines between B2B and B2C are rapidly blurring. She unpacks the importance of human-centred design, authentic brand experiences, sales and marketing alignment, and the role of AI in reshaping how companies create value. Nicola also provides a behind-the-scenes look at the conversations taking place in boardrooms right now, and what New Zealand businesses must prepare for as they scale into 2026 and beyond.

For more B2B insights, ideas and opportunities, head to www.blueoceanagency.co.nz

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Now it's like me, you live and breathe all things business to business, and you're looking for a place to connect, learn, and be inspired, you have come to the right place. Let's join Freya Spaven over in the studio.

Picks Peanut Butter And Authentic Access

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Fiona, and welcome back to B2B Inspired. Today we're thrilled to be joined by someone who brings a powerhouse of global commercial experience and strategic thinking to the table, Nicola O'Rook. Nicola has carved out a career leading the charge in consumer goods with executive roles spanning brand marketing, digital, innovation, e-commerce, and commercial operations. From global blue chip giants to fast-moving private equity ventures, she's helped shape the most recognizable CPG brands right here in Ateroa and beyond. Most recently, Nicola was recognised as one of the top 50 women in food and beverage. Nicola sits on a number of NZ food and beverage boards with brands we all know and love Pix Peanut Butter, Eason Wines, Whoop, Acton International, and more. Nicola is also an NZT Beachhead advisor working with companies to support their expansion plans. And we'll talk a little bit about that later too. Welcome Nicola. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Thank you, Kiora.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Beautiful day for us. Isn't it just yes? Now there are a few people in the office that were really excited to ask about Picks Peanut Butter. Of course. Of course, of course. And Pick's Peanut Butter World. And how often do you get to Nelson to see the famous Roasting Matilda?

SPEAKER_04 1:52

Oh, not enough. Probably once every six to eight weeks. Oh, okay. And she is always firing on all cylinders, Roasting Matilda. She's Pix have got a beautiful consumer experience. So when you go there, you can visit the factory and do a tour, which you know, not many places allow you kind of under the hood these days, but you can go and touch and see and feel roasting Matilda in person. So if you're ever down in Nelson, check it out.

Joy Consulting And Living Brand Values

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Oh, I absolutely will do. It's on high on the list. It's high on the list as it is from most of our office. Um so tell me a little bit about your company, Joy Consulting. I mean, I absolutely love the name, um, and it's obviously a reflection of how much you love what you do. So yeah, tell me a little bit about Joy.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

Yeah, so Joy Consulting was really um started uh when I went out on my own uh after running Lewis Row Creamery. We sold that uh at the end of 2020 and moved back to the Bay, which is where we are today. And um, for me it was is two things, it's sort of a deeply personal, I guess, mantra around creating joy and value moments with anyone I interact with and you think we do. Um, you know, and as a career marketer, you've got to be um optimistic and positive and creating moments of joy and delight. So it felt like a really natural name. And now I I guess it does two things. It allows me to to have a vehicle in which to have a great marketing conversations with businesses, but also um allows me to have a vehicle to engage from a governance perspective as well. So um yeah, I wouldn't have in fact it's tattooed on my wrist, so I was not the consulting part, just the joy.

Key Insights From iMedia B2B Summit

SPEAKER_01 3:24

So you're really living your values. Really living it, yeah, really living your values. We love to see that. Um now you landed last week from the iMedia B2B conference summit in Australia. Like how was that? What were the key sentiments? Um, what were you seeing as some of the some of the things that were being said in market?

SPEAKER_04 3:41

Yeah, it was interesting actually. Um, I hadn't been for a while to a B2B conference. Typically, it's been um B2C, but it was really encouraging to see in the room a whole lot of uh experts in their field, certainly around digital e-commerce but also in B2B, having quite courageous conversations around artificial intelligence and the role of that in business and understanding how we apply some of the concepts of consumer into the B2B world and how actually technology is moving at such a rapid rate of knots. Where is the point where we automate or have human-in-the-loop kind of conversations and what does that look like? And um, you know, the industry for B2B is merging and blurring with many other industries as consumers, as customers, as as people change. The expectations are blurring um in the different channels. So it was, yeah, got to have some great conversations with some thought leaders in the room, which was really exciting as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

I love that courageous conversations uh need to be had at this point in time because, like you say, the rate of change is is phenomenal, is it's very, very fast at the moment. And and I'd love to dig into a little bit of those conversations uh that you were having today, especially around the blurring of the lines between B2B, B2C. Of course, we talk about omni-channel and how important it is for B2B customers to be reaching their end consumer as well in pull-through marketing. Um, so recently you shared a very thought-provoking post on LinkedIn and you asked the question whether we've lost trust and empathy in business. What did you mean by that?

Have We Lost Trust And Empathy

SPEAKER_04 5:16

Yeah, I think it's actually it's probably a question in general, to be honest. I think, you know, as as as marketers and often as business owners, we're we're um deeply receptive to what's happening in the economy, what's happening in our markets, what's happening with our customers. And it just becomes a bit of a general observation that as we as we automate further, as we change our business structures, how as we're changing how we interact, how are we losing the ability to you know have more human interaction, to actually think, feel and do around our customer moments, around our brands, and what does that mean for our business in terms of what value we're creating? And I think it's um it was really just a moment in time where I think I was reflecting on the kind of the global economy, having been having amazing conversations at iMedia Summit and going, actually, I'm not really I'm not really sure we've actually nailed the balance between you know converting sales versus still understanding and having empathy and trust across kind of our different consumer groups and business-to-business relationships. So yeah, it was really just a reflection moment going, what what is going on at the moment? You know, what what how are we not able to just sit there and have critical conversations with each other and and and really empathize around different viewpoints that get outcomes we both want? And it was, yeah, got a few responses, but I think it actually just kicked off a bit of conversation, which was really the point.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Because one of the things that you highlighted in your talk was that um people don't buy from businesses, they buy from experiences. Um, so especially in a place where your customer is everyone, um, how does that mean uh how do you put that into practice? You know, how do you um how do we build trust?

Designing Human-Centred Experiences

Opening Doors Versus Curated Feeds

SPEAKER_04 7:08

Yeah, I think there's I think as a career marketer, there's really two things I've have always believed in. One is that uh design thinking and empathy-based innovation is is always gonna win. You know, we we are still humans, and yes, we want friction to be removed from our lives, we want the experience to be simpler, easier, faster, but there's still going to be a human element needed to really understand what is a person needing, how are we gonna think through that before they know they need it and therefore innovate accordingly. But also I think marketing is the role of all of the functions in the organisation. And you know, the marketing director merely is, I guess, the gatekeeper or the guardian of the brand and the customer and the culture. But whether it's operations or IT or supply chain, how are we thinking about all the moments of empathy and trust at all of those touch points across the organisation because that's actually what builds really strong businesses and creates value. There's a great quote from one of my favourite marketers that I'm gonna read out. Um, this is a woman called Beth Comstock, she's uh was the head of customer and innovation at GE Global, G Electric Global, and she's the author of Imagine It Forward, which if anyone's looking for a good book to read around kind of keeping a customer-centric uh organisation with you know tens of thousands of employees and how you kind of infiltrate all of the organisation with that. Um, she said, you know, whether B2B or B2C, I passionate believe that good marketing essentials are the same. We're all emotional beings, looking for relevance, context, and connection. So, you know, what is she really saying? She's actually saying that every time we have an interaction, how do I leave a value moment with you? And that you leave going, oh, I took more out of that than I thought I would, or they've actually gone over and above to deliver an outcome and they've done what they said. Uh it that doesn't, that doesn't need to be fully automated, but it is a way that we're having an interaction where I'm leaving a value moment with you. And that's the part that intrigues me. Are we are we losing the ability to do that? Because technology is amazing and it's reducing our requirement for manual thought, you know, just manual tasks that we have to work through. But how are we continuing to kind of then take the next step and leave all value moments with with our either our internal team, with our external customers or our B2B relationship?

SPEAKER_01 9:33

What an excellent, what an excellent uh thought starter for businesses around a table. Um I can imagine as uh sat around at a strategy meeting or you know, we we ask uh to the design thinking point, we always ask, how might we? Yeah. Um we love that question here at Blue Ocean. So if we say how might we, insert more empathy, more communication, more human touch points into the work that we're starting to automate. I think that's a wonderful thought starter. Um we also have something here at Blue Ocean that we call our pillars of trust. We ask, we ask the question um, is this message does it have the clarity of value? You know, are we providing clarity of value? Is our value proposition clear and are we communicating that out to market? Um, is the organization united to deliver in our messaging? You know, how we deliver is really important. So I think that speaks very nicely to your point around asking if we're creating a value moment with this interaction. Um and do we have a proven track record? You know, how are we how are we not just showing up and doing what we're saying we're we're doing, but have we have we done that before? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:37

Yeah, those are great essentially actions, you know, they're calls to action to say how are we living trust building in what we do? And um it's a shame today that I think we're we're we're losing more of that. Do I do what I do I just simply do what I say I'm gonna do? And do I over-deliver when I do it? And if so, how does that make the other person feel? What are they gonna think about that and how are they gonna then reciprocate and build trust? And how does that relationship work in terms of creating value for our organization?

Service Brands, People And Tech Gaps

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Can I put you on the spot? Of course. What's a really good example you've seen recently of of like that in trust in action? Yeah, yeah. I mean, we could talk about picks uh, you know, opening their world to to consumer.

Consumer Expectations Shaping B2B

SPEAKER_04 11:25

Yeah, well, that's actually where I was gonna instantly go. Um, you know, as as having been in food and beverage my whole career, um, what I've noticed over time is is um organisations deliberately, whether they sort of notice or not, are getting more and more distant from their consumers. And so, you know, the doors close, the gates go up, the factory shut, you know, the factory shut, you can't see in anymore, there aren't tours, you know, you can't engage as you used to with the products and brands. Um, we do it through social media, we do it in other ways, but there's still a distance to that. Um, and an element of trust, you know, it's curated. There's nothing like having an authentic moment, whether it's at a food show, engaging with a founder, talking about their products, whether it's touring a factory where they're going, you know what, we've got a spiritual home here, we we've got nothing to hide, we're gonna open the doors, you can come through, you can see us at work. Hey, we won't be perfect. Yeah, but that's who we are, and I think it's finding that balance for for brands and companies to go, it's okay to not be perfect, but it's about owning your story, uh, making sure that um you're connecting with people in a really authentic way. And that looks different for different businesses, but um Pix is a great example of that, I think. Um because it's very it's very tempting to have the curated Instagram feed, as opposed to you know having the courage to to open the doors and and have authentic conversations with customers on the spot and you know, them them see that maybe in the corner of the cafe you didn't quite sweat the floor yesterday, or you know, the guide dogs running around the cafe doing his thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

It's a lot of fun down here. I can imagine there are lots and lots of moments that feel very relatable. Yeah, and I think it's very um translatable to uh you know, we work with a lot of manufacturing companies, engineering companies, service-based businesses. Manufacturing businesses usually have very impressive facilities. Yeah, we've got engineering companies with huge gantry trains and cranes that they're very, very proud of. Immaculate facilities, they build very, very impressive pieces of equipment. Um you know, opening the doors is a little bit more difficult because you've got to get through the health and safety, you know. But how can we show that maybe in a visual media with video? Or you know, there are lots of different ways to give people a little look under the hood. Um and I wonder with a service-based business as well, if brand becomes even more important because of that. Like you know, we say brand brand is experienced now. So if you've got something that's distinctive and memorable, you're essentially showing a little bit of how your people do business.

Q4 Priorities And Value Moments

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Yeah, and I think the the interesting thing for service-based businesses is brand is important because it ultimately is experience, but then that experience is connected to people and often technology. So, you know, you take um the case of signing up for a uh new insurance package or um even just going and looking at how you might sell a car or a house, you know, you anyone entering that funnel is going to have um a p a people experience and a technology experience. And uh what I see a lot of is that those those things just are not aligning in terms of the brand or the experience that the company wants someone to have. So either they've got really good at sort of the lower funnel onboarding you're in, but but you actually haven't really experienced the heart of what that business is about, and they've they've missed moments of value actually to keep you longer. So they haven't quite got that connected, or actually they've you know, they haven't maybe got the right people doing the right things in the right roles, um, and have really let the technology end of it lapse. So there is a it's it's hard, you know, where is where are the tension points that you get it right and make sure that both both the human and the loop and the technology are are creating an experience that is gonna retain a customer.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Now you're talking about um you know really understanding your value chain. Yeah, really. I think that's what you're speaking about, looking at points in your value chain where you can add to experience um instead of instead of detracting.

SPEAKER_04 15:48

And I I think also the hard part now is we've you know, post-COVID is adoption of technology has massively accelerated in our personal lives. We can't help but transfer that expectation across to how we do business. So, you know, you think about as a consumer, no matter what you're buying, no matter how you're interacting with school, with your supermarket, with online deliveries, online purchases, whatever, you have a have a very swift wraparound experience and it's and it's primarily digital. And so your expectations around service levels, around communication all change. And how are we translating that into our B2B experiences? Are my customers getting a text, you know, automated the next day when I just had a great meeting with some in a follow-up? How are we looking at kind of our EDM and CRM databases to connect with some exactly like you would a consumer, but it's a different relationship? So, because actually we we can't help but transfer those expectations into our work life. That's exactly the way it works.

Practical Ways To Remove Friction

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Yes, exactly. So you've spoken a little bit really about um how you see B2B relationships becoming um more true customer experiences and how to navigate that tension. Yeah, yeah. Um, so as we're recording this, we're deep in Q4. Um heading past towards Christmas. I don't know, I somebody gave me an exact countdown the other day.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

I wait till January, I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

You've also been counting down a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 17:16

I didn't want to receive that information. It was not anything I wanted to hear.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Um, and we we uh we have this sentiment, I think, in New Zealand, I think it's pretty typical that um potentially it's time to slow down. We're coming towards the end of the year. You know, we've kind of got this looming April date of uh, you know, the new financial year. It's still you know almost six months already. So we shouldn't be slowing down. Um from your perspective, what should we be prioritizing strategically this time of year? How should we be coming together as a team so that we set ourselves up for success in 2026, ready for those financial planning uh meetings that are coming in in March and April?

Rethinking Strategy Cadence

SPEAKER_04 17:53

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's tough because I think sectors probably differ in terms of what um, you know, there's a financial year, but then there's sort of natural seasonal changes and buying behaviours and things, so it's a bit different. But I think the smartest teams at this time of year, you know, we are six months into the financial, we're actually using it as a pause point to kind of go, you know, what's working, what's not, what deserves our energy heading into the new year. Um it's also when you can get you have to sort of get quite practical often around kind of managing cash flow. New Zealand, um New Zealand is a bit of a country that slows down for quite a period of time, um, probably wrongly actually, because it's pretty unproductive at times. But um, I think the the businesses I see doing really exciting things at this time of year are going and not asking the internal questions, they're asking the external questions. So they're going, how are my customers feeling for the next three or four months over this busy period? How are my business partners feeling? How are our top clients feeling over this period? What could we be doing to make that three or four months really seamless for them? How can we take friction out of what they're working on right now? How can we accelerate something for them? How can we slow down something for them if they're not gonna get to it? Um, so not necessarily sending out the corporate gift parcels, but really sitting down and going, what are the potential problems that our customers are gonna have? And then how can we solve them now for them to allow them to sort of sail through that period, which is mad anyway? So they kind of come up for air in January and go, oh, you know, it's tough as it is every year over that period, but actually company XYZ is totally top of mind because man, they they sat with us, they helped us, we were prepared, they offered more value than we would have ever thought. Um, we weren't even thinking about that, but actually they came up with a whole lot of interesting ways to make our lives easier over a really busy period.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

I think you've had the nail on the head in terms of um what are our internal strategic priorities, but

SPEAKER_04 20:00

what there are what are our customers thinking and then aligning that to the yeah intimate and it comes all the way back to you empathy right what you know yeah it's gonna be it's gonna be tough for us but we work with 10, 50, 100, 1000 clients it's gonna be tough for them too. So what can we do um to support them over that period and not be a pain.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

And not be another another another thing they have to do.

Sales And Marketing As One Team

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Even just you know there was one classic example the other day of the company who just said look we're gonna um we understand cash flow looks like this over that period how about we get all your invoices in in November even though we know December and January they're gonna come we'll get it in early we'll I kind of do a 50% upfront payment for them. You don't have to then worry about payments over the rough period then we'll do the final payment after that. You know went specifically to them and asked those questions and then said actually then you don't have to ring the AP lady on you know Christmas Eve to go where is where is money or you don't have to kind of be dealing with our chat bot over that period of time that isn't going to answer exactly what you want. So you know it doesn't have to be big stuff it can just be little layers of moments of delight and experience that people go oh you know that was awesome. Sometimes it's much nicer than um a Christmas gift arriving on the the doorstep of the company.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Well what a better use of energy is for I think so yeah that's really thought provoking so you know do you see anything wrong with somebody just purely going in asking like how can I help you um over this busy period of time.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

Yeah and you know what they don't want is you to put an hour meeting in the diary to go how can we help it's it's to sit there and go, how can I think intentionally about what they're going through based on the relationship I have with that client. And then you know what do I know after probably having worked for them a couple of years happens every year. Let's see if we can we can make it easier.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yeah. I have to say I don't didn't think that that was where that question was going to go.

SPEAKER_04 21:56

I thought you were going to say let's sit in the boardroom let's let's get some financials let's interest fan of boardrooms but you get get out of the office right yeah well just you know the um there's no good time of year just to sort of pause naturally and go let's rethink I think you've got to work out a cadence for your business that that works but it certainly shouldn't be annually you know in the current climate it's um so uncertain things change so rapidly you know more quarterly questions around how are we adding value, what is our purpose, are we living it um you know what are some of the what are the some of the things that are on or off track on our assumptions on our plan what choices are we making or not making that we might want to relook at and change you know that just the world's moving so fast we we can't really afford to be having these sort of big one week strategy sessions for long periods of time. It's just strategy is just choices it's just choices we make and then the choices we should always revisit.

Boardroom Focus: AI And Ecosystems

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Mm-hmm mm-hmm so we've spoken a little bit about alignment because we at a Blue Ocean that's kind of see where we see a big um kind of pinch point. You spoke about the the value chain and and just but ensuring that um everybody's on the same page delivering fantastic experiences but sometimes our our definition of a a great experience might differ team to team so we might start to see that bridge uh start to start to break and you know it does take it it does take a little bit of maintenance. So if our ultimate goal is growth and customer connection um how do you see the sales alignment sales and marketing alignment piece fitting in with that?

SPEAKER_04 23:43

Yeah probably a controversial statement I would say I just I've sort of fundamentally never believed those are two separate functions um which you know isn't how they show up in business I get it but traditionally it's sort of marketing awareness and sales conversion and you know then you sort of got to try and work together to work on the short and long funnel for that but you know great marketers craft stories that sell and great salespeople know how to present products in a way that you know builds trust and empathy over time. So I just think that there's such blended functions that if I certainly if I was running my own business and and have done in past with teams we don't we don't keep them separate like that. But I think the only way I guess to get around it is making sure that there's um shared culture, shared values you're very very clear on your brand and customer experience outcomes and you're also aligned on how you measure that across the team and the measures are mutual so it's not it's not here's the sales measures and here's the marketing measures but actually here's our customer facing measures and we all have different elements in lead and lag where we interact with that but actually they're one set of measures for the company. So you know when when when we're often talking in across the organisations I'm involved with we're we're always asking ourselves you know what is the problem we're solving what is the solution why now why us those sort of four questions and and those are equally sales and marketing questions on their own but together that's when you get the best outcomes when you guys are solving those four questions together. And it's just always revisiting those because sales are going to be at the coal face more often they're bringing in rich insight back to the business what are we what are we doing with that? How are we thinking about it? Are we still solving the same problems are we not? Do we need to be looking at a product offer you know they're joint probably didn't ask your question very well but no you did but to me they're like they're just not they're not separate functions. Yeah okay no absolutely the best marketers are salespeople and the best salespeople are also marketers.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

We would we would also echo that yeah we would also echo that we see a lot of um we we often come in as as part of that marketing function to sort to support um but we have a very sales focused lens I think that um we we understand the sales and we do see them as as one function um you almost become the growth team yeah yeah yeah you do yeah um so um what are the kinds of you just briefly touched on some of the um conversations that you're having in the boardroom right now what what is uh front of mind for the boards that you manage currently and what are you thinking about going into 2026?

Macroeconomics, Trust And Retention

NZTE Beachhead: Global Scaling Help

SPEAKER_04 26:25

Is there a is there a top so many things yeah there's a number of topics yeah it's probably the obvious ones but I think if we just say the topics around um customer consumer experience um I guess the intersection of well AI of course but actually more the intersection of technology and people and how do we decouple revenue from headcount because as you know this I'm sort of you don't want to have a podcast about AI again probably there's heaps of them but I'm more interested in if it's if it's um if AI is creating significant efficiency in a business how do we decouple that from from the number of heads we have in the overhead cost so we can truly understand that and then where do we know that we've pushed it too far and we still need a human element to deliver the experience that we should as a business. So and look it those are tough questions to answer because you've actually got to test and learn and sort of fail at some things to work it out. But so that um I guess the consumerization of B2B and B2B to C. So certainly in food and beverage you know whilst we are B2C you're really B2B because primarily your products sell through supermarkets especially the perishable ones are not going to go through e-commerce as well so there is some omini channel but um it's not it's not sort of a traditional way to start so the challenge with that is your your your supermarket is also your customer. They're essentially the gatekeeper to the consumer so what is your engagement strategy your marketing plan your experience that you wrap around your buyer relationships and um how is that changing as our biggest customer the supermarkets change their structures as they change their teams as they change how they buy as they change their strategic thinking we've got to be really close to that as well as being really close to the consumer and what does that mean for our businesses over time and ecosystem thinking so just B2B businesses won't go to loan you know they'll also grow through partnerships and data and co-innovation so who's in our ecosystem so if we take the supermarkets as an example for a B2B, who else is in that ecosystem? You know there's logistics suppliers that enable that to happen there's data companies that are enabling a lot to happen. Who else is in the ecosystem and how are we engaging that ecosystem which as a food and beverage company is is not a traditional way of thinking you're not going to go well what is my strategy with the data company that works with kind of some of my biggest customers but actually that's how the world works now. We're all sort of in these connected ecosystems so how do we have more influence in the ecosystem?

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Really important questions to be had and very top level and questions of complexity as well that need um like I say testing iteration innovation innovation behind them. So we're looking ahead to 2026 and beyond what shifts do you think that B2B businesses in particular need to get ahead of you know we've talked a lot about or what we've talked a little bit about AI um bio behavior or brand building um but yeah what does that mean for companies and and what what should we be looking ahead to?

Resources, Books And LinkedIn As Channel

SPEAKER_04 29:47

I guess a lot I think a lot of the questions um we're asking at a board level are a lot of those things. But um I think it's also about having a really good awareness of your macroeconomic operating environment. New Zealand is is at the bottom of the world and yes we export a significant amount of our goods and services and technology but uh it's a pretty you know if you if you follow the Alderman Trust index really closely which I do it comes out in January every year but it's kind of a global reading of of I guess the the general volatility of the world and it it does break it all down by markets etc but it's interesting that each year it's getting more and more challenging around metrics like trust, like empathy like connection. And so if we are um growing brands that are around experiences how much of those experiences actually involve trust and empathy and connection or actually are they just transactions? And so how are we thinking about what our product is if it is in a global environment and how that I guess is interacting with just how consumers are how people are feeling you know it is a real we're becoming a quite a divisive world in lots of different ways and I think we've got to we've got to have a very clear view on what that means across many things climate change sustainability technology consumer brand you know all the elements of our business and um those are big heavy things to take into 2026. But they are they are but action but actually really it's just continuing to ask the question around exactly what we've been talking about. So so so what is our role what can we do really well and how can we how can we more intimately know our customer base so that we are delivering the kind of the experience the empathy the trust that we need to keep them as sticky as possible because you know there's a really evolving school of thought that actually investment in um retention is is significantly more valuable than the investment in acquisition at the moment and so you know if you look at your investment split across your pay and now where are you spending where are you spending your money?

SPEAKER_01 32:05

That's really interesting. I'd like to talk a little second about um your role in New Zealand Trade and Enterprise as a beachhead advisor. Now New Zealand's Beachhead advisory network connects New Zealand businesses with a global community of more than 450 international experts based in both New Zealand and in over 45 international markets. All the advisors have deep experience in building and scaling businesses internationally and you offer practical expertise across areas like strategy, branding, governance and finance and of course marketing.

The Overlooked Value Chain Question

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Can you speak a little bit about your role in as a New Zealand speech head advisor and yeah how does that work yeah firstly I should say it's an absolute privilege because not many countries in the world get access to what is an amazing function like New Zealand Trade Enterprise. So you know essentially they're they're a government entity set up that enables and supports New Zealand businesses around the globe and they've got offices all over the globe. And what they have is the speech head network network which is essentially access to a number of individuals across multiple countries in subject matter expertise and companies can come in when they're on an export journey and it'd be at different phases of the funnels NZTE but at times can get access to those expertise. So yeah my role I probably have seen maybe 75 companies over the last four years and yeah it ranges from from solving go-to-market strategy with them versus fresh thinking sessions which are around kind of aspiration um uh I guess uh structuring of teams to achieve aspiration uh brand marketing product positioning all that stuff but what I love about those sessions is you get to just meet some incredible people who constantly surprise me because you know the aspirations are really high and we're doing some pretty epic stuff around the world actually when you when you kind of get a so much of a I guess a cross section of of business. So you know I only get to see them for about three hours at a time so I don't you know I get to sort of dip in and out but it gives you a really amazing I guess industry cross section of what's of what's happening and um what's working and what's not working and um different strategies and innovative ways of thinking that many of our New Zealand businesses are are doing which is a real privilege.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

And you're obviously bringing a whole heap of expertise and experience to that so it's a privilege to have access to you as well. Yes yeah absolutely thank you so much for that um so you've mentioned some resources today you mentioned the book um which I'll put in the show notes as well are there any more resources that you would highly advise people to read check out there's so many.

SPEAKER_04 35:01

I know it sort of depends what you're yeah I at the moment I'm um so I'm actually always rereading Beth Comstock's book but um Jeremy Gersh who's the trends Trent Hunter um thought leader he has written a great book around the culture of innovation and this sort of the front half of the book is is a bit of theory and the back half is actually for companies to take and have practical working sessions around innovation. I love that book because it really challenges your thinking process um which is not necessarily around innovation it can just be around experiences and other things so those are the two I'm deep involved in at the moment. And then I my go-to is usually LinkedIn so I'm always always following a couple of really interesting people which I can give you to put in the show notes as well. Yes please do I can sort of send you through my list of books I'm interested in and reading and and people I'm following because I find it um I don't know where LinkedIn came out out of nowhere really but I it's been an amazing resource I think for B2B um to really create um allow your employees within your organization a voice to actually grow um kind of your your brand in presence and I think it's a I think most companies underestimate it as a channel to build trust actually and um yeah it it it's an amazing way to kind of network I think if you if you think about it intentionally.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yes yeah you're very active on LinkedIn and highly recommend everybody to go and check out your lovely posts and reflections because they are uh I did do a little bit of a deep dive last night so I ended up scrolling for a while. And and finally to close um you may have actually just answered this question but what what's one thing that you think B2B businesses often overlook when it comes to their goals and when it comes to growth?

SPEAKER_04 36:59

Oh they overlook I don't know if they deliberately overlook it but I think it's just getting too caught up in well not asking enough um where are the points in our in our value chain that we're you know a we're providing a point of difference but they we're providing value so typically the conversations I'm having around a B2B table are right um okay what is our price what is our product what is the cost how do we automate it you know sort of as fast as possible and in that order um as opposed to going cool that is an enabler to what are we actually trying to achieve um and I think it's just creating enough space and time to keep having those conversations which is probably relevant to everyone not just B2B up thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Pleasure conversation was fascinating it went in a few places that I didn't expect it to very good it's it's wonderful to hear you talk about the customer experience and you sound like you really live and breathe and putting the customer first as well which is just yeah it's amazing to yeah thank you so much for your time.

Closing And Community CTA

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Pleasure thank you that's that thanks for listening to We Do B2B by BlueOcean. Now Brace for CTA if you want to join and grow the community make sure to subscribe wherever your eyes and ears absorb information. Don't forget to switch on notifications so you know when the latest episodes drop and for more B2B goodness be sure to follow BlueOcean the B2B agency on LinkedIn. Now look you know how this next piece works the more reviews we get the faster this thing grows. So please do for us what you hope your customers would do for you. Leave a review and share your thoughts. Let's stay connected and keep the B2B marketing conversation going.