The Anxiety Compass Podcast
Welcome to The Anxiety Compass Podcast, where we help you navigate the messy, magical, and maddening world of anxiety. We believe anxiety isn’t a defect but a teacher — a compass pointing you back to your True North.
Hosted by Clinical Nutritionists Sammy Barnett (author of Anxiety: The Best Teacher You Never Asked For) and Natalie Antoine, this show goes beyond quick fixes to explore the real roots of anxiety. Each week we explore a different point of the compass:
🌿 Chemical & Nutritional
💬 Emotional
⚡ Nervous System
🌀 Hormonal
🌍 Environmental
💪 Physical
✨ Spiritual
Through personal stories, humour, and practical tools, we show how anxiety is not a problem to “fix” but an invitation to slow down, listen, and reconnect with yourself. If you’re ready to see anxiety in a new light, learn real-life strategies, and feel less alone in the messy middle, this podcast is for you.
The Anxiety Compass Podcast
The Real Reason You Can’t Stop Saying Sorry
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Do you apologise for asking questions?
For being emotional?
For replying late?
For needing help?
For simply existing?
In this episode of The Anxiety Compass, Sammy and Nat unpack the hidden message behind over-apologising… and why saying “sorry” is often much deeper than politeness.
Because for many people, apologising became a survival strategy.
A way to:
- avoid conflict
- keep others comfortable
- stay likeable
- prevent rejection
- feel emotionally safe
We explore how anxiety, people pleasing, hypervigilance, and childhood conditioning can quietly teach us to shrink ourselves, over-explain, and feel guilty for taking up space.
In this episode we unpack:
✨ Why anxious people often apologise excessively
✨ The nervous system connection behind people pleasing
✨ Why women are conditioned to soften themselves
✨ The hidden cost of constantly saying sorry
✨ How over-apologising affects confidence and identity
✨ What kids absorb when they hear us minimise ourselves
✨ Practical ways to communicate without shrinking yourself
This episode is funny, reflective, validating, and deeply relatable for anyone who has ever said sorry to a piece of furniture.
👉 Grab your free Anxiety Compass download here
👉 Grab a copy of Sammy's Book, Anxiety, The Best Teacher You Never Asked For here
Follow us @theanxietycompass
Connect with Sammy @nutritionwithsammy or website
Connect with Natalie @nataliemarieinbalance or book discovery call here
Hey, it's Emmy and Natalie here, and welcome to the Anxiety Compass. Where anxiety isn't the enemy, it's our tour guide. We'll swap stories, share tools, and have a laugh while we find our way back to True North. Come along. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode on the anxiety compass. Hi. Matt, I'm so sorry. Do you ever want to start the opening? I'm really sorry. Oh, look, no.
SPEAKER_01I'm I'm sorry. Look saying sorry.
SPEAKER_00Sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Why do we apologize for existing? Why do we constantly keep saying sorry? Do you know? I did that as a challenge once. I had um someone saying to me, I want you to be very aware of how many times you say sorry this week. And every time I said sorry, I had to quickly stop myself and think, do I actually need to apologize for this? And 95% of the sorries I said had no reason for me to say sorry. Like, isn't it insane?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it really is.
SPEAKER_00Do you say sorry a lot?
SPEAKER_01I used to, yeah. Pretty much apologize for existing. I apologize for everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Sorry again. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, it's there is anxiety reasons behind over apologizing. And I I find do you find it's more women than men that say sorry for everything?
SPEAKER_01100%. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I've heard men say sorry a lot too, but not to the extent that women say it.
SPEAKER_01No. That's a thing, isn't it? It really is a thing with females. We've been conditioned to be small. Which we're gonna go into. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00So over apologizing is hypervigilance, it's a fear of conflict, it's a fear of rejection. It's the people, please. Oh my god, she keeps popping up, doesn't it? Yeah, it's trying to stay safe and control someone else, and it's trying not to burden others because you know everyone else is more important than you, apparently. And uh you need to apologize for even being born. Yeah, isn't that ridiculous? If you're listening, how many times have you apologized today for something that you didn't actually need to apologize for? Ooh, one of the biggest ones I do is I apologize to people who bump into me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I used to do that all the time, too. Yeah, crazy. Yeah, crazy, isn't it? Yeah, someone would bump into you and go, oh, I'm sorry, sorry.
SPEAKER_00Even in like emails, sorry for the late reply. Sorry, sorry, I'm sorry, but I need to chase up this invoice, even though I did the job and you need to pay me. I'm really sorry that I am in your emails asking for money. Yeah, I'm sorry that it's looks probably looks stupid, but can't sorry, can I just ask a question?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a big one. You never hear men say that. Like you're in a meeting or something, they go, Oh, sorry, can I just um say something here? They just they own it and they just go in there where it's free. Oh, excuse me.
SPEAKER_00I find I apologize for my emotions a lot. I'm so sorry I'm angry today. It's like you're allowed to feel these emotions, right? Yeah, why do we apologize for feeling?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um apologize if I was crying.
SPEAKER_00Do you know? One of the things I have said sorry to, I've said sorry to animals, obviously, when I run into them or they almost hit me. I apologize to inanimate objects as well.
SPEAKER_01Me too. Yeah, I used to apologize.
SPEAKER_00You haven't apologized to furniture? Yes, I have. Oh my god. Oh I know. Ah, that's a big one, isn't it? Yeah, holy moly. And going back to the emotions, do you apologize when you cry?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's what I said just a minute ago. Yeah. Oh, you did. Sorry. Yeah, that's yeah, I apologize. I used to. I would apologize if I was upset. I'm so sorry, you know.
SPEAKER_00And then you can't stop crying and you just keep apologizing while you're crying.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sorry, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or I apologize when you're feeling sick. I'm so sorry. I'm not 100% like my voice is obviously not 100% today, and I'm so sorry about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I used to do that when I was little. I used to apologize. I mean, that that's how conditioned it was into me. Um, I didn't want to be a burden on anyone. So, you know, when I was, you know, I'm talking about when I was four and five. If I got up in the middle of the night to because I had to vomit, I wouldn't wake anyone. I would just quietly go and vomit and then go back to bed, and I'd be really sick the next day. And I'd tell mum and or dad, and they'd be like, Why didn't you why didn't you come and get us? And I was like, Oh no, I'm sorry. You're like, you needed your sleep. Oh my. I'm thinking about it. Yeah, exactly. At four, I was thinking of everybody else, and that was, you know, there was I just didn't want to be a burden because my my beautiful little sister was very sick from when she was born. She had like really severe asthma and spent a lot of time, you know. I don't know, you know, mum and dad would have to race off to hospital in the middle of the night. So I just because I was the older one and I didn't want to be a burden, so you know, the things that we carry, we carry so much and we don't even realize. And and that comes down to self-worth.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Over apologizing is definitely something that plays on our nervous system, and particularly like if you're an anxious person and a woman, like the combinations just yeah, it's it's a a way to keep your nervous system safe because you want to feel accepted and belonging. And if you're not and not be a stress, yes, it's it's prevents conflict because I know for me growing up, conflict would set my nervous system into disarray. And so if you quickly apologized, you would it was like it would be like you would uh tell everyone I'm not a threat. I'm not a threat. Yeah I'm I'm a little mouse, but I have needs, and I'm sorry that I'm in the way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I'm sorry that I have needs.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it's a it's a really common anxiety behavior, actually. It it is probably one of the most common. Yeah, and it's not just like some people go, but it's just being polite. It's it's not, it's actually annoying. I've been like now that I've conditioned myself not to say it as much, I find when I'm around people that are constantly apologizing, after a while it gets annoying because I'm annoyed for them that they can't speak up. I get frustrated because I want them to see how worthy they are, and they just keep saying sorry for existing, and it it annoys me. I don't know if that's just me, but I get frustrated. Stop apologizing.
SPEAKER_01That's what I that's what I just get really sad for them, you know. And I did the same. So stop, you don't need to apologize, you don't need to overexplain.
SPEAKER_00Yes, you do it without because you can recognize what what they're doing and why they're doing it, but yeah, it Yeah, and and in the psychology behind it, like your brain is constantly scanning for things that are dangerous, so conflict, of course, disapproval, tension, awkwardness. Like that's that's uncomfortable awkwardness, and signs that someone's upset. So it your brain starts to treat that social discomfort like a threat, and all of a sudden, sorry automatically comes out. Your brain's like, quick, throw out a sorry, throw out a sorry. That's gonna smooth things over real quick, that's gonna reduce the tension, that's gonna avoid any conflict that could arise, and it's gonna stop people from being angry at me because I can't handle people being angry at me because I need to be liked by everyone, and I need to stay liked and I need to stay safe. And so when you think about it, and this is something you've spoken about a lot in these podcasts, Nat, it actually is the fawning process. You're fawning, yeah. And if you haven't listened to our previous comp uh podcast, we talked about the the five five. There's fawning, there's flight, there's fight and freeze. I think there was another one, but fawning saying sorry is is fawning.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or an over-explaining, that's another form of apology when you over-explain. That was my biggest thing. It was over-explaining. Yes, and it was my again, it was my cousin. It's fun so funny. She's I I'm I should ring her. I was very I mentioned her in the last podcast that we just did the last episode. Um I'll never never forget. Oh, it was actually after I'd had my breakdown, and we'll she was driving me somewhere, and she asked me a question. I can't remember, you know, nothing major. And I answered, and she just, as she was driving, she said, Nat, why do you always overexplain yourself? You don't need to justify your answer. And I just sat there and went, Oh my god, I hadn't even realized it was my normal response. And it wasn't until someone had the, you know, and I I so appreciated that that shining a light on it and going, Oh wow, I actually really do. That's a trauma response.
SPEAKER_00It is. I've done the same with a text, like I pointed it out to a friend because every time she couldn't come to something, I would get this four-paragraph text on I've got to do this, and like you know, my daughter's this, and I do apologize. But next time, perhaps, blah blah blah. I'm like, you just have to write, can't come, but maybe we'll catch up next time. Like, that is it. You don't need to overexplain yourself.
SPEAKER_01No, but it's actually really uncomfortable when you start doing because I when I started just giving short, succinct answers.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's hard. You learn retraining your brain because as you go back to the science, when you constantly and your brain jumps to the sorry and the over-explaining all the time, you have created new neural pathways to keep your body safe, and so it's teaching the your body that over apologizing it's your needs are inconvenient, your voice is taking up too much space, your confidence shrinks, so you become really a bit of a hider, which is what we were talking about in our last episode. Yeah, um, and the the thing that bubbles underneath, which what we see in clinic, is that resentment builds, and that's where the sickness comes because you are not ever speaking your mind, you're always apologizing for existing. But underneath it all, you're wishing that you could speak, and that resentment and those emotions building up underneath anger is what feeds sickness, and that's where you in our clinic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I want to eat better. It's like let's have a look at some other things.
SPEAKER_01Well, at at you know, when you go out for dinner, talking about eating, and someone said, What would you like? You know, your partner says, Well, oh, I don't mind. Yeah, you know, I'll I'll have what you're having, yeah. So little things like that.
SPEAKER_00Can I try one of your chips? Sorry, but can I try one of your chips? Sorry. Sorry, but I want my order. I didn't want, I didn't really want this. You can have mine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And coming back to what you just said about basically speaking your truth, I do um energy healing, I do Reiki in my clinic, and I pretty much 100% of women who come to me when when I first start working with them energetically, their throat chakra is so blocked because they just don't speak their truth because they're swallowing their truth, they're hiding, they don't, you know, so they're hiding it behind the the sorries, the over-explaining, the playing small.
SPEAKER_00And they know what to say, they play it in their head when they're in the shower. They absolutely conversations over or in the middle of the night, you know, re-going over what I should have said. I should have said this. It just gets worse. And some of these women have been doing this for 20, 30, 40 years in their head. Their entire yeah, people haven't, and they won't entire life. Some you become so busy managing everyone else's comfort that you actually lose connection to your own truth, which is essentially what you're seeing in your clinic with Reiki. Oh my gosh. So, what do we say instead? What do we say instead of sorry? So if you're running late to a meeting, it's natural for you to say, I'm so sorry for the delay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or I'm sorry I'm late. Like when you arrive somewhere. That was the just before we go into this, that was the one thing that really connected in. And I think I heard it from Oprah or something like that, like a long time ago. Maybe even been around the time when Eckhart Eckartole came first came out and stuff. It was a long time ago. And they said, Don't apologize for being late. Sorry, I'm late. Turn around and say, Thank you for waiting.
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you for your patience.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for your patience, exactly.
SPEAKER_00And sometimes I make a little joke and people laugh and I say, the traffic is terrible. Like I don't apologize, it's not my fault. I mean, it probably is my fault. I probably should have left earlier, but you know, I'm not apologizing for that. I'm gonna say I understand you've been patient and waiting. So thank you. Thank you for waiting. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, and it feels good to the recipient too. It feels weird when you first start it, and because you think, well, that's a weird it's actually a weird comment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, to make patience.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or thanks for waiting, thanks for your patience. But uh, when you're the recipient of that, it actually even feels better. Yeah, it does. Because you're being seen for, oh yes, I have been patient. Yes, I have been waiting. Rather than going, sorry, I'm late. You're going, thank you.
SPEAKER_00I feel worse when people apologize because I feel like I've made it an inconvenience for them that they have to apologize.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, or or like, oh my gosh, am I that strict that people are having to apologize?
SPEAKER_00Is it I've never thought of it from the other side, the other, the other side. Yeah. And I get frustrated when people constantly apologize to me because I feel like I'm making it's my fault that they're having to apologize, where I try and be exactly, you know, I don't need that. What about one of the things I find is people do want to speak their voice? They go, sorry to bother you. What would you say instead of I'm so sorry to bother you? Like, I'm I'm I'm a really annoying person and I'm sorry for existing, but like what would you say instead of that? Do you have a moment? Ah, so you're being considerate that their time is important, but you also have something important to say.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Again, it's a it's a reciprocal um interaction there. Do you have a moment?
SPEAKER_00And if they say no, okay, well, when can you have a moment? Because there's I've got something important I'd love to discuss with you. Yeah, because when people say no, like if you're not used to it, that can oh, oh, I'm so sorry. That can be triggering. That can be triggering, yeah. But you are entitled to speak, and if someone is that busy they don't have time for you, you need to tell them it's important to let me know when you are free. Yeah, some people are really bitey though, and that's a reflection on them, not you. Exactly. Yeah, yes, you yeah, some people are very triggering, and then uh what about like I know when I do my workshops, I have question time, and both for adults and kids, I find they feel silly or stupid, if that's a word to use, when they ask me a question, yeah, and then they go, Oh, I'm so sorry, but this is this is probably a silly question, but and I'm like, No question's silly. Like, if you genuinely want to ask me something, you can ask me something that is something that most people probably know, but I can guarantee there's someone else in the room that probably doesn't know. So, what would you say if you think you have a silly question? Would you reframe that in your head?
SPEAKER_01Or yeah, just hi, look, I've got a question.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, get rid of the silly and the sorry. Get rid of the silly and the sorry, because it might not be silly. Yes, you've just labeled it as silly, and so now that person's brain's trying to understand the silliness of the question. Yeah, exactly. That is a silly question, and then you have a chuckle and you go, Yeah, it is a silly question, but I don't know the answer.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I've been around people who are so confident in themselves, and they are the ones that ask the most questions because that is why they're confident and learn so much, because they position themselves around people who know more than them. Like, I've had people that like I don't know anything about cars. If I'm in a room with my husband and his brother and all of them talking about carts and cars, I ask silly questions, and you know what? They're not silly because I got no idea about them. You don't know, and they laugh and they giggle, and I'm like, I want to know, I want to learn. And so, yeah, you you're the smart one in the room because you're learning things, so exactly sure. If they were in the room with me talking about nutrition, they wouldn't uh know some of the questions. They wouldn't be laughing so much. Silly questions now. Intelligence really depends on the topic, right?
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00And uh, I was always taught that intelligence is a mark of imagination and and growth, and constantly asking questions, even the silly ones is is a sign of intelligence.
SPEAKER_01So it really is. I mean, you look at the most successful and intelligent people in history, they they yeah, they were the curious ones. That's what keeps you learning is the curiosity and being able to say, hey, I don't understand this. I I'd really love to know this. It's reciprocal, yeah. But again, it's a reciprocal because it's letting the other person the person that you're question asking the question to saying, I actually um respect your opinion and that you do know more than this, and I would love to learn from you.
SPEAKER_00I love that. That's it, that's important. I say that to my kids. I'm like, if someone in the room is smarter than you on something, go and ask them, go and ask them how they did this or how they got this, or if you like someone's clothing or their hair, go and ask them. Yeah, where to get your hair done. Most people genuinely want to share. Like, I know that. But and and again, being someone who is the question answerer up on stage, there was always a bit of anxiety of being too stupid to answer. Answer really questions. And some of the questions I get from kids, I'm talking two-year-olds and three-year-olds, they're quite in depth. And I actually don't have the answer for some of them. And I write back, I don't go, oh, I'm sorry, I don't know the answer. I say, Oh, that's a fantastic question. Do you know what? I don't actually know the answer to that, but I'm gonna look it up later and I'm gonna find out. And they they feel really good about themselves because they asked me something that I don't know how to answer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. But you didn't apologize for not knowing, you just like, oh, that's a really great question.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't know that one. So yeah, and going back to oh, we'll do one more um example of what to say instead, but going back to what you were saying before with apologizing for crying or apologizing for being emotional, like these are normal things that we need to get used to. That human beings have emotions, and yeah, okay, there's a time and a place, like I say to my son, when he's in kung fu and he's learning attack and he's in with all the boys, like they conditioning them to not cry because if you're getting beaten up and you just curl into a ball and cry, you're more of a target, so they're conditioning them to be stronger in that way. But when you're at home in your comfort and your safety, like, or even around friends and family, and you are emotional and you're feeling these feelings, we're allowed to express them. But everybody I know that starts crying when I'm having a conversation, they go in amongst their ugly tears. I'm so sorry. And I'm like, why? What what do we do instead of that? Like, if you start crying, like some people would just walk away because they don't want to apologize. Like where would you be?
SPEAKER_01Like, oh, I'm hurting, or I'm scared. So actually, but Able to verbalize the reason why you're crying.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it doesn't have to be big, it doesn't, you don't even have to understand it, but just expressing the vulnerability.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Around people that you feel safe with. It fosters, again, a reciprocal because the the person who is in front of you is going to have more of an understanding of what's going on. Yeah. But also it builds that resilience and strength in you, that safety that it is safe to actually express an emotion, explain, you know, like I say, you don't have to go to, you know, just say, I'm scared, or I'm so upset, or my heart's breaking, or you know, whatever. It doesn't have to be big.
SPEAKER_00It's a roller coaster you have to go through with emotions. You've got to feel them. Too many people suppress them. And what we were saying in the last episode, which is in agreement with this one, is that kids are always watching us. And if you're a parent and you're unable to, you know, speak your truth, your kids are learning these behaviors and their brains are forming into okay, I've got to apologize for doing that. Okay, can't speak up for that. The tone, the shrinking, the self-eraser, which is what we were talking about in the last episode. The nervous laughter, I often do nervous laughter, and I've been called up on it before that you laugh to get away from uncomfortable. Yes, I do. I do it all the time. Um, and the guilt around needing things, like yeah, yeah. So if your kids are constantly hearing you say sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, they're learning that my existence is inconvenienced, people, and uh I need to apologize for existing. Do we want that? Do we really want that? No, no, we don't. No, no, we don't. It's uh coming back to the anxiety compass because that's what this podcast is about. It's anxiety asking because anxiety is something, it's a teacher, someone talking to us. It's our little compass, right? Am I still safe here? Am I safe? Because that's what it's about. Controlling the environment.
SPEAKER_01It's all about safety.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Can I control people by apologizing and showing them that I'm not a threat? That's where I just keep coming back to. Do you find that's where it where it's sort of the core of it is? Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yes. So if you start to stop apologizing all the time, I mean, when can we say sorry? Like if you if you hit someone with your car, like that's a oh my god, I'm so sorry. If you genuinely hurt someone.
SPEAKER_01I was about to say, if you hurt someone, like there is a need to say sorry, or you know, and genuinely, like you know, I'm not saying, you know, oh, I'm sorry you see it that way. If someone's been really offended by someone, yeah. Having a genuine bespeaker.
SPEAKER_00I'm sorry you feel mad at me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, there are reasons to say it. Um what if I stop saying sorry, what would healing look like for me, Nat? Like if I if I started to actually stick up for myself and speak my truth, what would that look like?
SPEAKER_01Well, like I mentioned, you slowly build that resilience, you increase your self-worth, you're giving yourself the message that you are valuable enough to exist and that you don't have to apologize. So you're increasing the your self-love, yes, which then has a an effect on your physical health, your mental health, your um spiritual energetic self. All the things you go to the true north, and yeah, I was just about to say, and when it comes to the compass, you're coming back to your true north because you're being authentic, you're being true to yourself, you're not making yourself small, minimizing yourself, minimizing your experiences underneath sorry's.
SPEAKER_00That is so true. You're trusting that you don't need to earn your right to exist, you already exist. Yeah, you already exist. Yes. Why do we feel like we need to earn that right? It's so silly. So silly. It's just so silly. So we're such complex beings. We are, aren't we? And we're constantly learning, and the brain is constantly coming for the ride with us. So let's start checking. I'm gonna try and see how many times I say sorry. I apologize to my dog a lot, and I feel bad for it. Sorry, I've got to leave the house. Sorry, darling, did I lock you outside? Sorry. I'm sorry. Um, it's just becomes a habit, doesn't it? So reflective question. Uh do you wanna do you want to say one or do you want me to come up with one? Um, um, no, I I won't. Mama, sorry, sorry, sorry. I put you on the spot. Sorry, sorry. Um, I where's my notes? Oh, you have one. Oh, look at you, Mrs. Organization.
SPEAKER_01I know. What would change in your life if you stopped apologizing for taking up space? So, yeah. So we were just giving a few examples of how it can change. How would it how does that look in your life? What would change in your life if you actually stopped apologizing for everything? How does that make you feel in your body? How do you start showing up in the world?
SPEAKER_00You know, I just had a thought then that as a mum, I apologize for my kids as well. I didn't even think about that. That's a good point. No. What is that saying to my children that you're not worthy? You you be quiet and sit in the corner.
SPEAKER_01You're being an inconvenience. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Ouch. Jeez, that one hit hard, didn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it actually hit hard. Yeah. I could feel that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. Well, I can ask you.
SPEAKER_01We're constantly learning and growing. Like it's a continuum. All right.
SPEAKER_00Well, do you have anything else you would like to share? No, I think that's we should leave it there. My lap's really warm. I have a dog laying on my lap. A little midas. He definitely doesn't apologise for existing. No. No. Pete, animals don't. No, they just exist. Yes. Yes. Yes. We need to just exist, right? Okay. Do well. Love you, Levia, and we'll see you on the next episode. Bye. Thanks for joining us on the Anxiety Compass. If you love this episode, share it with a friend who needs a little laugh and low calm. We'll see you in the next one. Keep following your true north. Disclaimer time. Sammy and Natalie may be clinical nutritionists, but we're not your personal doctors. What you hear is for learning and laughing, not diagnosing or prescribing. If things feel bigger than you, call your doctor or local support line or reach out to a qualified health professional and call your back to the