Could Anxiety Be a Vitamin D Deficiency? | The Winter Blues Connection

What if anxiety isn't just coming from your thoughts?

In this episode of The Anxiety Compass, Sammy and Nat shine a light on one of the most overlooked pieces of the anxiety puzzle: Vitamin D.

As the weather cools down and we spend more time indoors, many people notice changes in their mood, motivation, energy levels, and resilience. But how much of that is "just life"... and how much could be linked to what's happening inside the body?

Together, Sammy and Nat explore the fascinating relationship between Vitamin D, the nervous system, mood, and anxiety.

They unpack:

☀️ What Vitamin D actually does in the body

☀️ Why low Vitamin D is more common than many people realise

☀️ The connection between Vitamin D, mood, motivation and anxiety

☀️ Why winter can feel harder emotionally for some people

☀️ Practical ways to support your body during the cooler months

This conversation isn't about replacing professional advice or suggesting Vitamin D is the answer to every problem.

It's about remembering one of the core principles of The Anxiety Compass:

Sometimes the clues we're looking for aren't just in our thoughts.

Sometimes they're in our biology.

Because sometimes finding your True North starts with stepping into the sunshine.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hey, it's Amy and Natalie here, and welcome to the Anxiety Compass. Where anxiety isn't the enemy, it's our tour guide. We'll swap stories, share tools, and have a laugh while we find our way back to true north. Come along. Welcome back everyone to another episode. I am very uh excited, Nat actually sitting outside, and I'm looking at the sunshine, and I'm thinking, wow, I'd like to after this podcast go and sit in the sun. And uh I'm excited about I was sitting in the sun before we recorded having my cup of tea. It's beautiful outside. So if you're listening to this, uh well, it's probably June or July in Australia, and we are now in winter. Uh, if you're at the other side of the world at the top, you're probably in summer. But uh, we're doing a uh an episode on winter blues, anxiety, and missing sunshine because a lot of people get winter blues, Nat. That's an actual thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yep, sad. Seasonal affective disorder.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Exactly. I know, and I feel like I've had it in the past. Um, I try and get as much sunshine as I can now, but in the past, when I used to work uh in a law office in the city, I wasn't getting much sunshine at all. I was literally getting up um before I lived in the city. I was getting up, catching the bus in, going straight into work. I'd be in the office all day, you know, eat at my desk because that's what you used to do. And then by the time I got home, like the sun was sort of I I'd be leaving my home when it was still dark, and I'd be getting home when it was dark. So I was literally not getting any sunshine.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

I used to I used to get sad as well. Um, because I lived in in you know, southern states. I was in Canberra. So in winter, you know, there's there's not as much sun, but also because it is so bitterly cold, even when it's sunny, you don't necessarily want to go out there.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Yeah, yeah. It's too cold. See, I've grown up mainly in in Queensland. We don't really get much of a winter here. Um we really don't, but still, like it it's yeah, you're not getting as much vitamin D, which is what we're going to be talking about today. So uh referring to the anxiety anxiety, anxiety compass, uh, this episode's primarily looking at the physical, um, getting your body out there, getting some sunshine on, moving your body around in the sun, um, as well as the chemical, because there's a chemical reaction happening in your body uh with vitamin D, one of uh a very important vitamin that I'm gonna say when my clinic was open at, most people were vitamin D deficient, even though they were in the range, some of the reference range.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Well, they did not have optimal route levels. I have never seen anyone come into my clinic with optimal uh vitamin D levels. Yeah, unless they're taking like a supplement or something, and you're like, oh, okay. But even still, they're usually not taking the right sort of supplement and the cofactors that go with it, and so and we'll go into the sciencey bit later on. But yeah, even when they were supplementing, they off they they they're not doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

But you're gonna share all that with us today, aren't you, Nat?

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah, do the sciencey bit.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Woohoo! Now, when people think of vitamin D, and it's one of the sub what's it said one of the supplements, one of the vitamins and the nutrients that I mention in my kids and adults workshops, the thing that jumps to most people's brains with vitamin D is bone health. They don't actually go too much further into it. And a lot of people don't realize that it actually influences those neurotransmitters in our body which impact on our mood. And so if you're vitamin D deficient, it also works as I'm gonna say, like an antibiotic for the lungs. So I find a lot of people who are vitamin D deficient, not only are they sad, they get sick a lot around this time of year as well.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Yeah. So I mean, even, you know, I'm gonna get controversial here and mention COVID. Even when, you know, that pandemic was happening. We were all pushing to, you know, educate people on vitamin D because of the connection. Yeah, your immune system, but yeah, also has that connection to the lungs.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Yeah, a very big connection to the lungs. Uh yes. So yeah. I'm gonna say winter is full of uh reasons why we don't get vitamin D. So I mean, I mentioned we're out, we're not outdoors as often. We're indoors more. Um the shorter days, I mean, middle of June, isn't it? Is that one of the shortest days of the year where it's less sunlight than ever? I'm pretty sure it's in the middle of is it June?

SPEAKER_02 5:16

21st of June.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Something like that. The shortest day, which is much less winter solstice, uh, less movement as well. I find a lot of people use the winter to sort of hibernate. Um, they become less social because it's harder to dress up and go out. You've got to wear so many layers. I mean, unless you're from like Melbourne and you're used to wearing layers, it's um where we wear thongs up here and we don't want to put boots on. Man, we just want to chuck your thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Some of us do. I'm from Canberra. I've I'm running around at the moment with my big boots on, pretending um my kids. And if you remember, we met up for breakfast a couple of weeks ago. We met at like 7, 7:30 a.m. And I had my big, beautiful peak pea green wool coat on. Uh only had it on for like 10 minutes because it was too hot.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

It's annoying because you warm, it's cold in the morning, you get rubbed up, and then you go out, and then Queensland heats up. Yeah, then by 8 a.m. it's like my boys refuse to put socks and shoes on. They will wear thongs and board shorts, and I had to explain to them why they couldn't do that when we went to Japan for the winter because you just can't do that. Um, you can kind of get away with it if you want to keep your toes. Yeah, exactly. Um, the more comfort food, so a lot of people are overindulging in the winter because you know you want that warm comfort food when you're rugged up on the couch, and um routines are disrupted. So I found for me personally, um, I'm not walking the dog when I get up at 4:30 in the morning because it's pitch black. And I used to meet um girlfriends down by the lake after dropping my son off at kung fu. Um, but now it's too dangerous to walk around the lake because it's not lit up properly and it's dark. So um less routines as well. And people assume I must be depressed, I must be lazy, that lazy word comes in, no motivation. I might as well just hibernate, eat what I want, and just rug up and stay inside, and I will come out of my shell when it gets warm again. Um, yeah, do you notice that? Yep, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, what is this vitamin D? I I a lot of people know it comes from the sun, but it's actually not activated until something happens in the body, Nat. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Yeah, let me do a quick deep dive into it. So, vitamin D is a fat-soluble psychosteroid hormone that is synthesized in the skin following exposure to UVB um radiation from the sunlight. We've got two primary forms of vitamin D. We've got D3, which is your um coli calciferol, I can never say that word, which is producing the skin and it's also found in animal foods. And then you've got vitamin D2, which is found in some fungi and fortified foods. Little tip while we're talking about fungi, mushrooms. A little tip, if you want to increase your vitamin D levels, um buy the um the larger flatter, like portobello mushrooms or something like that, put them outside in the sun, um gill side up for 20 minutes, it will increase your vitamin D levels intake while you're eating it. And cooking it won't destroy the vitamin D. Yeah, it's a little tip I give to my patients all the time.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Well, you've never told me this before.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, so yes, Emmy. Um so with vitamin D, um there are two steps to um that the vitamin D goes through. So step one, it passes through the liver, and vitamin D is is um converted from vitamin D into 25 OHD, which is the form measured in the blood tests. It then passes through the kidneys, where it's it's transformed from and converted from the 25 OHD, which is the levels in our blood, into the calcitriole, which is the active hormone that exerts the biological effects in our body. So vitamin C is not a vitamin and a hormone.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Yeah, absolutely. And so that's another thing I see a lot of if if people have got liver issues or kidney issues, they also will have low vitamin D. Yes, because of these conversions aren't working effectively. Absolutely. So vitamin D receptors or VDRs are found throughout the brain. So talking about mental health and anxiety, and um, and it's particularly in areas that are involved with our mood regulation, our emotional processing, our learning, our memory, and our stress response. Because these receptors are actually um located within the hippocampus, the amygdala, the prefrontal cortex, and the hypo hypothalamus. So the presence of vitamin D receptors suggests that vitamin D has a direct effect on our brain function, it's not simply an indirect effect through our physical health. Really interesting. So it goes through a number of mechanisms. There's there's a couple of mechanisms that vitamin D has. So, number one, because we're talking about anxiety, is serotonin production. Okay, vitamin D regulates the expression of tryptophan, and this enzyme converts um so it's tryptophan hydro hydroxylase too, which converts tryptophan into serotonin within the brain. So yeah, I can it really is. So low vitamin D can contribute to reduced serotonin production and impaired neurotransmitter balance, which can that's one of the reasons why vitamin D is associated with anxiety, depression, seasonal affective disorder, everything we've been talking about. The second mechanism is regulation of neuroinflammation, so that brain inflammation. So chronic inflammation is increasingly recognized as a contributor to anxiety and depression. So vitamin D helps regulate that immune function by reducing the pro-inflammatory cytokines, so T and F, interleukin 6, and interleukin 1 beta. So this helps shift the immune system away from that excessive inflammatory activity. And since inflammatory molecules can cross the blood-brain barrier and affect our neurotransmitter function, reducing inflammation can also help to improve your mood and stress resilience. Oh, there's so much.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

And if you're listening, I've got we've got probably got sciencey people listening who are going, oh, that's interesting. And some of you are probably like, What? Because there's a lot, yeah, there's science words there. Yeah, sometimes, yeah. I I love hearing all this. Sorry, I was just gonna say I love listening to the sciencey stuff, I find it fascinating. I was always um told as well with vitamin D from the sun, as it hits your skin, um, it connects with the cholesterol in your skin, which helps to convert it into the active, and that if you're lacking things like zinc, because zinc helps um I'm gonna go into all of that. Yeah, I was just gonna say so you simply just going outside and getting sunshine. I mean, lathering yourself and sunscreen and all that is often great to block maybe skin cancers if that's your issue, but you're actually blocking those rays, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Um that's another thing now that we're talking about cholesterol, is that if you're on a statin, you probably need to supplement with vitamin D. Definitely need to get out in the sun. But because statins, those statin medications reduces cholesterol, and cholesterol is needed for vitamin D production and conversion. You you probably should go and get your vitamin D levels checked.

unknown 13:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

So if you're also experiencing anxiety and/or depression.

unknown 13:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

So there's a little side there. So another mechanism, this is our big one. We talk about this all the time: the modulation of the HPA axis. Yes. Uh, hypothalamic pituitary adrenal um axis, which controls our stress response. So vitamin D receptors are found within the hypothalamus and the pituitary gland. So it research and studies suggest that vitamin D can help the modulation of cortisol production, improve our stress adapt adaptation, and prevent excessive activation of that stress response. So it's helping us to be able to cope with stress because we can't get rid of all of the stress in our life. So lack of vitamin D me you know means that our body isn't able to meet stresses as effectively as as it can.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Low stress resilience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Exactly. Which then potentially can contribute to your anxiety symptoms.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Another mechanism is neuroprotection, really, really important, especially as we um age. So vitamin D um appears to protect neurons through several mechanisms. It promotes the nerve growth factor, so NGF. It um promotes the glial cell line derived neurotrophic um factor, and it also um helps support and put and the production of antioxidant activity. So this helps the protect the brain tissue from oxidative stress, inflammation, and age-related cognitive decline. So it's neuroprotection is a really important uh factor as you grow when it comes to age. Absolutely. And you know, we could go into another whole, you know, topic about that, about and a podcast about that, about age-related um cognitive decline and anxiety. There's a lot of anxiety around that when you realize that your brain's not working as effectively. The other one, the one that we love, GABA. GABA GABA is the brain's primary calming neurotransmitter. And there is emerging research show showing that um vitamin D may influence the genes involved in GABA synthesis and the GABA um signal signaling. Yeah, so this is an area that's still developing, it's in the early stages of research, but it provides another plausible mechanism linking low vitamin D to that heightened anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Yeah, well, that was what what was wrong with me with the panic, well, I shouldn't say wrong with me, but the panic attacks, they were constant. My body wasn't producing GABA and GABA. I'm pretty sure I was very deficient in vitamin D. I was at like not we're not talking about ranges just yet, but I think I was sitting at like 15 or something. I was quite low. Yeah. Very low.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Uh one of my favorite, favorite subjects, vitamin D and the gut brain axis. So, did you know that vitamin D receptors are found throughout our gastrointestinal tract? Vitamin D helps to maintain our gut barrier integrity, support microbial diversity, so a microbiome, and reduces intestinal inflammation. Low vitamin D, you may find that you've um can be experiencing dysbiosis, so disrupted microbiome population, increased intestinal permeability, otherwise known as leaky gut, which then leads on to that chronic inflammation. So, given that strong connection between gut health and mental health, vitamin D may exert mood effects through that gut gut brain axis as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Gosh, it basically does everything. You don't want to be deficient.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

No, it's it's vital, really. No, you really don't. Yeah. Um, you know, the evidence for anxiety specifically is promising. Um, you know, a lot of the the research out there has looked at vitamin D and depression. That's really what um sad is that seasonal affective disorder. It's more about depression, but there is more and more evidence um being collated on that connection with anxiety as well, which is really exciting, you know, from a science point of view. Now, talking about let's go into ratios. Now, we've talked about this before. On your standard blood test that you get from your GP, um you're going to see the reference ranges, which is not a great uh indicator of your actual health status. As natural medicine practitioners, we always go by optimal ranges, which is actually quite can be quite different. So normal ranges, under 25 nanomoles per liter, it's severe deficiency. Less than 50 is deficiency, uh, 50 to 75 is insufficiency, and over 75 is generally adequate. As functional practitioners, uh, we like to see the levels minimum of 75 up to 125. I like to see it sitting at about 100.

unknown 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

I see a lot of women in my clinic who have chronic long-term complex um you know, illnesses, disease states. I like with a lot of inflammation with a lot of inflammation, I like to see it sitting up at around 150 for a little while while we're reducing that inflammation in the body.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

I was gonna say 150 was my target market for some women. Um I also found like in clinic, a lot of women that were low in vitamin D, they were so stressed that their body was also chewing through, which I mentioned, magnesium and zinc. I was literally about to talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

Yeah, vitamin D cofactors.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Ah, they're missing. You can't activate it in your body without them.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

No, you can't. So magnesium um is is required for so as we as you mentioned, vitamin D synthesis synthesizers in the skin, it's activated. Um magnesium is needed for that activation in the liver that I was talking about before, and also then that activation in the kidneys. Magnesium is also used, um, it it binds, it's uses binding to that vitamin D receptors as well to enhance that um the utilization of the vitamin D once it's converted. So use it away. Yeah, absolutely. Um, another one, and of course, as we've mentioned um numerous times throughout our podcast episodes, is that when you are in a high stress state, got anxiety, our body chews through magnesium and zinc like it's going out of fashion.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

So if you've got anxiety and you're not um eating a lot of magnesium and zinc rich foods andor supplementing, um, you may find that you've got low vitamin D. Also, you you may find that your blood levels on your um your pathology report may show that your vitamin D is adequate. And like I mentioned before, that's the uh there's that's only part of the conversion when it's floating around in our blood plasma. Yeah, it might not be doing the job.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

So it might not be doing its job, exactly. I just need the staff to be able to start working. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

So zinc, vitamin D, it's it's um our receptor function. So on the cells, it that keeps our cell function healthy so that those receptors are optimized. Um, zinc is also used for that gene transcription of vitamin D and our immune regulation. So a zinc deficiency may reduce the effectiveness of the vitamin D signaling.

unknown 21:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Which is really important.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

I've also found um, like I had a lot of clients who were zinc deficient. They also and and the signs were they were craving some unusual things and you know that because zinc's also a part of your taste bud receptors, but their cholesterol levels were quite high. And I think a lot of people don't realize that um to break down cholesterol, you need zinc and you You know, using cholesterol to make vitamin D. And quite often these people would have high levels of cholesterol because their body was making too much cholesterol, waiting for zinc to use it to turn it into all these hormones, because it's part of the steroid pathway. But a lot of people think cholesterol and they freak out. You actually, it's it's you used for so many processes in the body. And the the first thing I think of when I see really high cholesterol is not so much their diet, that does play a role to some degree, but 80% of the made in the liver. Exactly. If your body is making all this cholesterol, you're missing the little, you know, parts that convert it into these wonderful things, all the different hormones and steroid pathway that that including vitamin D. So um that was a big one that surprised people. I say that on stage as well. I say, you know, if you're zinc deficient, um, you're not using cholesterol to make things in your body. And then I listed all the things and then like, oh wow. Um, and it just like deficiency can be so many things. Like we were talking about getting sick more often, brain fog, fatigue, anxiety, and low mood, so they're sad, um, and just lack of motivation. And so I'm wondering if people go I haven't finished yet. Oh, you can you got more. Continue. I've got more.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

So one of the really, really important um vitamins that we need for um together with vitamin D, and I never supplement without it, is vitamin K2. Yeah, I was just gonna say if if they're deficient, what supplements do they go for? Absolutely. So if you get D3 plus K2, there's some really great um products out there. Um otherwise, just having K2. Um, so vitamin D obviously increases our calcium absorption. They work synergistically, calcium and vitamin D. Basically, what vitamin but without the K2, so vitamin D um increases our calcium absorption, which is great. It's needed for our teeth and our bones. However, it has the risk of then just depositing into our tissues, including our arteries, which is our atherosclerosis. What the vitamin K2 is, this is the way I describe it, it's like the little bus that drives around and and picks up the calcium and drives it into the bones and the teeth where it is needed and where it is stored. So it takes it away from that, those tissues in the body and puts it into the bone. Because calcium just on its own doesn't really isn't very effective at going into the bones. So it's really, really essential, especially if you've if you're supplementing with vitamin D that you um supplement with vitamin K2 as well to reduce that the risk of heart uh disease, heart you know, coronary events, that sort of thing, uh build up of atherosclerosis. Um and then another one, uh an emerging cofactor is is boron. Boron has been shown to it helps with vitamin D metabolism, magnesium retention, as well as our bone health. So um, you know, boron is is um is not talked about a lot, but food sources of of boron, because people are like, what? Okay, we know you know, we can go through the food sources of vitamin D, which we I will in a moment, but boron is not talked about a lot at all, but it's found in our fruits, especially our prunes, our raisins, and sultanas. Now you think about those fruits where they've grown in the sun. Okay, so they're rich in boron. Avocados are rich in boron, um, legumes um and organ meats, including liver. I often give my patients because there's the iron, you know, if they're especially if they're low in iron, I'll give them like food as medicine, so I'll give them liver capsules.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

It's got a little bit of the boron in those. The spleen and liver capsules that have got in like they're called ancestral or something, something yes, yeah. Primal, primal something.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Primal and yeah, those ones. I use the same ones, they're really, really great. So, what boron does is it increases the half-life of vitamin D in the body. Really, it influences the conversion of vitamin D into its active forms. So it stays in the body longer. Is that what you're saying? Yes, yeah, yeah. Um, it improves the magnesium utilization, supports calcium metabolism, and also helps to reduce inflammatory markers.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

So you've got to get I've seen supplements of actual just boron that you can buy, but you're saying better to get it in the format of like a liver capsule.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Liver capsule and foods. So you know, eating, you know, your nuts and your seeds, your avocados, those fruits like prunes, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

I do like prunes. I got into prunes when I went on the cruise ship. You know how they have the buffets, yes, and I was watching everyone eating prunes. I'm like, is everyone backed up or something? And then I said to my hobby, I actually really like prunes. So I started having prunes every day. So I've come home and I've bought some prunes.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

So yeah, I love prunes.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Like, oh they yum, aren't they? My kids were like, What are they? I'm like, they're prunes. If I never bought prunes, they've never seen them. Yeah, they're good.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

It's like nice little sweet hit, you know, instead of they are absolutely, yeah, and they help our digestive health as well.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Yes. Keep us regular. So for those that are listening and they thinking I'm deficient in vitamin D, they can just go to their GP and get a test. Is that correct? Uh or do we have to pay for it now? I'm not sure. Do they get the active vitamin D? Because there's a few different forms that they can test for. Which one would you recommend if they had to pick a test so they know which one they're going for? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Active. The active one. Absolutely active. Yeah. Um, but you know, talking about those those ratios, those ranges before, just getting you, just getting doctors are hesitant to and then you know, it's not necessarily their fault, it's because of Medicare, they are restricted in what they can test, and they often don't test vitamin D.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

You can get an ask for a D.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Yeah, just go and ask for a vitamin D test, and then you can have a look at the reference ranges. Cite them yourself because the doctor will say you're with you're fine. Oh, you're fine.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

So say can I get a like 45 or 50? They go, Oh, yeah, you're fine. You're not a copy. They can email it to you if you if you request it. You are entitled to a copy of your blood test. So definitely get a copy. And then so what if they're deficient? So they go um with the food sources. Perhaps they go good again, a D3 and K. Is that the one you were saying? Definitely working in K2, K2, not K1. Sorry, K2. Which is the end, yeah. And they should really go and speak to like if you've got a health food store, you can go and chat with a nutritionist or naturopath in the store because they're going to have a look at any contraindications or anything like that before you just start taking one. Because there's don't so many different types.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Absolutely. Or book in with someone like us, like yeah, yeah, book in with the naturopath, clinical nutritionist, someone like someone who we'll look at we will look at all the things. That's what I do in my clinic all the time. But you know, food sources of vitamin D. We didn't get to that. So that um, like I mentioned, um, mushrooms, um, exposed to the sun. Really, really good, uh, really good source. You you find it in salmon, sardines, mackerel, and herring, egg yolks. Eggs are just such a little powerhouse of oh, they are. You were eating one before I saw your peeling. Uh, like we were talking about liver um and fortified dairy products. I'm not a fan of fortified foods. Yeah, I'm not. Um, but of course, number one source is sunlight.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

That's the number one source.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Like, yeah, and I um I actually have a chart here which I'll read out. It talks about the specific um because it depends on where you live around the world too. And specifically with Australia, I'm going to mention um the recommended sun exposure for adequate vitamin D levels because some people go out and and I'm not saying like going out lathering yourself and sunscreen in a hat and sunglasses, like that's gonna block the vitamin D. There needs to be a little bit of time that you can get the sunlight to hit your actual skin that isn't blocking it. And if you're in Brisbane, um, which is where we are, for winter, the recommended duration you should be in the sun and letting your like the sun actually touch your skin outside the hours of 10 and 2 pm is 15 to 19 minutes. Are you outside for 15 to 19 minutes to get your vitamin D? And you don't have to get naked, you can just stick your legs in the sun, like as long as some form of your body is seeing the sunlight. Um if you're in Sydney further down, it's actually 26 to 28 minutes in the middle of winter that you need sun to touch your skin. And I wonder how many people are spending half an hour outside getting sun. Yeah, because when you think about it, they're probably sitting in their desks inside, like most people who are probably on their way to work listening. And then if you're all the way down in Hobart, like you're getting further down south here, 40 to 47 minutes of direct sunlight, are you getting that? I wonder. Like this is this isn't this is a long time. I mean, as if you compare it with the summertime, so in Brisbane, we only need six to seven minutes. Any longer than that, you're probably gonna fry yourself because the is it the UVA rays that are quite intense, and and we do have the highest levels of skin cancer in the world, so we want to be careful. Um but yeah, like winter time, you need to be in the sunshine more. And if you're listening, I'm I'm wondering how long do you actually spend sitting in the sun and how are you going to make that happen for you? Maybe a a walk? Like, I I know some people get like a 10-minute break to go and have a smoke. Like smoke is smoking breaks still like. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Yeah, can you go out and and but that's when I recommend, especially in winter.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

That's I tell all of my clients go for a walk at lunchtime. Yeah, because that's when the the this when it's going to be the warmest part of the day in winter. Yep. Uh you're moving your body, so you're helping all many, all the other things as well. Glucose, you know, um insulin spikes, all those sorts of things, as well as getting um vitamin D and also, of course, mindfulness, yes, mental health, just getting outside away from the desk, away from other people, or go for a walk with your co-workers. Have a meeting.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

They do that now. I've seen um meetup groups where they actually go for a walk in the sun. Yep. So instead of like having an office meeting, you could go outside and walk and talk about rather than just doing it over the phone, say, hey, let's meet up downstairs and go for a walk around the river and back again.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Exactly. Especially if it's like a brainstorming, creative sort of meeting, because going for a walk actually also stimulates that part of the brain.

unknown 33:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

So you're gonna get more creative when you go for the walk.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

And I was just gonna say, like, if you've got an office with a window and perhaps you're getting sunlight from the window, that still blocks the vitamin D from coming through, doesn't it? Like it doesn't block um UVA, you can get burnt. No, you can get sunburnt. Yeah. I find like a lot of Japanese women when they're driving, they wear the gloves and the and that because they they don't want the skin damage from the sun, but it's still blocking the vitamin D from getting through. Like even just driving around in your car. Like if you are driving in the morning and the sun is out, wind the window down. Oh my gosh, let the sun out of the window.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

There you go, you're getting it. 20-minute drive to work, whatever it might be. Stick your I was about to say, stick your head out the window, you might get fined by the police. But you know, you're getting your when they pull you over, say, I'm getting my vitamin D.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Well, if you've got a sunroof, I've got a sunroof. Mine's open all the time in winter, so that I'm getting a lot of sunshine on me.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

That's true. I didn't think of that. I'm now, it's like I'm sometimes I find the body knows what it wants, and sometimes I'm craving for sunshine, like craving it. And when I see the sun come out, it's like my whole body lights up. And I get sometimes I get a bit depressed because I think I need to get outside. And there's that anxiety knowing that I want to go out in the sun, and I need to shift what I'm doing to make that happen because it's like my body, it's like you know, when anxiety is trying to talk to you, it's trying to tell me I need sun and you need to restructure a couple of things so that you can go outside and get that 10-20 minutes in the sun. Body's always talking, the body's always talking. I feel like um this episode's been very heavy in the science, Nat. It's got very sciencey on this one, but I feel like people need to know what's going on under the hood. Yeah, and in simple terms, uh, the vitamin D does a lot for the body, a lot, and if you're lacking it, this could be the reason why you're feeling really sad, brain foggy, and unmotivated during winter. So definitely getting lots of colds as well, like your immune system is suppressed. Exactly, exactly. It's um it's all connected. So um, before we wrap it up, I was going to see. Do you want to throw out a reflective question for our audience, or do you want me to do one? Um you can do this one. I did the last one. Oh, you just lovely. All right, let me throw one in. Okay. If anxiety got louder during winter, what has changed in your environment, in your habits, or your body that might be contributing? And what is one small thing you could do to bring back this week? Like, what could you do that you normally do in the summer? Maybe not 4 30 a.m. walks, but maybe you could sit out by the pool just because you can't swim in it because it's cold. Well, you could, you could still lay out by the pool in the sun. I find like I'm not laying out by my pool because I'm not using the pool, but it still looks amazing the water.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

It's still a beautiful environment. Grab your book, cup of tea.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

I like going to the beach in winter.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

Mmm, me too. When I lived on the on the beach down at the end.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

I don't necessarily swim, but I like to walk.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

No, I would just go and I loved sitting on the just sitting on the sand, looking out at the ocean for an hour or so. I found it's just so calming.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

It was really funny, like it was really obvious, you know, who the um I I was still rugged up. It's really obvious who the who the tourists were because they would walk along the beach in shorts and a t-shirt, and I'm sitting there literally in a scarf and a jumper.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

We do that. We go, um, it's become a tradition now. My sister's partners, well, anyway, it's a disjointed family member, and they own a beach house down um south of Sydney, and no one really hires it out because it's like a family hire chart. No one really hires it at winter in the winter for the June-July holidays. So we've become a habit of booking it and having a family holiday with my sister and her kids and my kids, and it's right on the beach. Um, it's freaking freezing, but there's a fireplace, and we stay outside on the balcony and we play board games, and we don't really swim in the ocean because it's too cold. We might do a little bit of a cold dip, but it is so beautiful, so beautiful now, and I'm really looking forward to sitting in the sun and playing Scrabble. Yeah, best, best, best, best, best.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

I'm a Scrabble fan too. You know, we have to get together one day and do Scrabble.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

I love Scrabble.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Um Scrabble person. Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

On that note, I'm gonna um love yours and leave yours. And is there anything else you want to say before I say goodbye? Oh, I think I think we've covered everything. Okay, very briefly, but probably not everything, but as much as we can, as much as we can get. All right, have a great day, everyone, and go and get some sunshine. Goodbye. Thanks for joining us on the Anxiety Compass. If you love this episode, share it with a friend who needs a little laugh and a low calm. We'll see you in the next one. Keep following your true mom. Disclaimer time. Sammy and Natalie may be clinical nutritionists, but we're not your personal doctors. What you hear is for learning and laughing, not diagnosing or prescribing. If things feel bigger than you, call your doctor or a local support line or reach out to a qualified health professional and you're back to