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Spandex & Wine
Spandex & Wine is a podcast for finding balance between being healthy & living a happy life. Hosted by Robin Hackney, a 23-year veteran in the fitness industry & wine consultant, this is a place to be our authentic selves as we have real conversations exploring wellness and all things wine! Subscribe now so you don’t miss an episode.
Spandex & Wine
What You Say in Your Mind, You See in the Mirror
Ever wondered why you can't break free from the cycle of restricting food then binging, despite your best intentions? In this eye-opening conversation, therapist and fitness professional Christina Hathaway reveals the hidden psychology behind our relationship with food and our bodies.
"What you say in your mind, you see in the mirror," Christina explains, unveiling how our internal dialogue shapes our physical experience. As both a group fitness instructor and therapist, she noticed a critical gap in wellness resources: support for women struggling with body image and disordered eating patterns who don't meet clinical criteria for eating disorders. This realization led her to create Mindset to Matter, a revolutionary program where psychology meets biology.
Christina brilliantly unpacks why restrictive eating and binging are two sides of the same coin, revealing how perfectionism serves as a shield against deeper feelings of shame and worthlessness. When perfectionism inevitably burns out, binging emerges not as a failure of willpower but as a solution to rigid deprivation. This perspective shift alone can be transformative for listeners trapped in this exhausting cycle.
The most powerful moment comes when Christina shares her technique for managing negative self-talk. By naming the critical voice in your head (clients have chosen names like "Sir," "Karen," and "Ursula"), you create separation between yourself and that destructive narrative. This simple yet profound practice helps identify triggers and develop strategies to quiet that voice when it appears.
We also explore the connection between trauma and eating behaviors, distinguishing between major traumas and what Christina calls "trauma by 10,000 paper cuts" – subtle instances where something good should have happened but didn't. These experiences plant seeds that grow into perfectionism and achievement-oriented behaviors as coping mechanisms.
Ready to transform your relationship with food and your body? This episode offers more than temporary fixes – it provides the understanding needed for lasting change. Listen now and discover how addressing the emotional roots of eating behaviors can finally bring the peace you've been seeking.
Christina's web site: Mindset of Matter | Transform Your Health
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Hello and welcome to the Spandex and Wine podcast. I'm your host, robin Hackney, and I'm so happy that you're here. This podcast is a place for conversations about balancing a healthy lifestyle and being happy more specifically, happy hour. Together we'll explore all things wellness and wine. I hope you learn a little, laugh a lot and, along the way, know you're not alone on this balanced wellness journey. Ready to jump in? Pour something in your glass that makes you happy, because it's time for spandex and wine. Hey friends, welcome back to the podcast. So picture this it's a stormy Kansas day, winds are whipping, sky's turning gray and I'm crossing my fingers that the power stays on long enough to hit record. Lucky for us, we made it almost to the end. Today's episode is a good one.
Speaker 1:I sat down with Christina Hathaway. She's a therapist, fitness pro and all around powerhouse who's on a mission to help women heal their relationship with food and their bodies. Her program Mindset to Matter is where psychology meets biology, and it is changing lives. We talked about trauma, body image, the emotional roots of binge and restrict cycles, and how to finally stop the war. With your plate and your reflection, christina has this magical way of blending science with real talk, plus a few truth bombs that might just shift how you see yourself. So grab a cozy spot, keep one eye on the weather radar if you're here in the Midwest, and get ready to be inspired. Well, hey, christina, welcome to the Spandex and Wine podcast. How are you today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. Thanks for having me, and I brought my drink.
Speaker 1:I love it. It looks like an Aperol Sprritz. Like you had said, we were talking before we recorded and oh my gosh, that's so appropriate but it's not, it's Mio.
Speaker 2:It's a sweet tea, mio and water, because I don't like to drink plain water, so I drink this all the time. So got it Okay. I like drink out of the glass is great.
Speaker 1:I have never used the meal before, so you like it, huh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I absolutely love it. It helps to make my again. It just gives some flavor. Now I only do this sweet tea, but my husband does all of the flavors, so it's it's really nice, very, very nice. Yeah, good, it's good to know that you approve of it too. I do, and it gives. I mean I live in the desert so it helps to give me. You know, make sure I'm hydrated and again I. Just water's too plain, I have to have something in it. So it's either this or lemon.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, and I use the true lime packets. I absolutely, absolutely love those.
Speaker 2:Yes, I do have LMNT, so yes, same thing Okay. Okay.
Speaker 1:All right, got all the hacks, okay, and that's not what today's show is about, but You're welcome. Yeah, exactly that's it. We're out. Bye, all right. So seriously, christina, like sometimes you get guests and you're like, okay, is this going to work, is this going to work, is this going to fit in? And like I feel like you're like the perfect guest. I was reading about everything that you do and you know how you talk about psychology and biology coming together and helping women from the inside out and their relationship with food and body obsession. I mean, I'm so excited to get going and it looks like you started, like me, as a personal trainer, right?
Speaker 2:Well, technically I started as a group fit instructor and I started my in that same year, started my first year as a therapist. So I had gone through my graduate school program and I also decided that I wanted to teach fitness classes. So I actually started both of those at the same time. But yes, I started in the fitness industry, group fit, then certified personal trainer down the line.
Speaker 1:Okay, now, now, what took you to where you are now? The mindset to matter. Let's talk about that and kind of explain what that is. And I want to know, I want to know everything.
Speaker 2:Yes, so when I initially started in the like in my program for marriage and family therapy, I initially thought that I was going to be a sex therapist. To be honest with you, I just felt like there was not enough education around like sex and health and your health and your body, and I ended up getting placed in a kid's program.
Speaker 2:So I went through my master's degree program doing the thing I didn't love. However, my one of my professors was a therapist in an eating disorder facility and I, as someone who has danced my entire life, been in a body focused industry since three years old, very much related to that. Right, yeah I, I danced up until college. I danced for one year in college, cheered for two years and I then got into. I fell in love with fitness at that time, actually through Les Mills Body Pump, of all things, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, yep, yeah, but that's where I learned how to squat, deadlifts, like all of that. Yeah, so I fast forward, finally graduate, decide I want to pursue that industry of helping people with body image and eating disorders because I had such a personal relationship to it. Now, I never had an eating disorder myself, but very much struggled with body dysmorphia, very much struggled with not feeling fit enough, and the word fit wasn't even a part of my vocabulary. Then I just remember trying to quote unquote diet at such a young age when I was literally all muscle. I was like a pit bull dancer, which had its issues in itself, because I'm the strong body in a delicate world, and so I chose to go into that field. To go into that field, I did the trainings necessary to be hireable for these specialized programs and ended up working in an intensive outpatient program. Now, as we were talking about at the beginning of the episode, you know I started off as a group fit instructor and, at that same time, actually started group fit in 2010,. Started working as a therapist in 2010. So I'm running these programs x days of the week and then I'm running my classes x days of the week and you know when you're. You know whether it's personal training or group fit.
Speaker 2:You have conversations with your members. They they want to know you and they would ask you know, what do you do outside of this? Say, oh, I run. You know I am an eating disorder therapist, basically, and I would hear these women have these conversations about, oh yeah, I really struggle with you know, binging or like get really snacky. They wouldn't use the words per se.
Speaker 2:You know, I wish I had an eating disorder. That's something I heard all the time. Oh my gosh, wow, right, because they were so hating their bodies that they would wish and I know there was a joke, but it's right, I don't listen to content. I'm looking at the process of like where that comment was placed and kind of understanding why it was placed, and I realized there was nowhere for your average woman to go who has struggles with body image, maybe a disordered relationship with food, but not an eating disorder. And fast forward many years after that I came, I created the mindset of matter to be that place. I basically took the, the skills, the methodologies from work where the work I did in eating disorder groups, body image groups, and adapted it to your everyday woman, on top of using the education in personal training and nutrition coaching. So now we're not only dealing with behaviors, which a lot of programs deal with, we're dealing with beliefs as well.
Speaker 1:So that's how it came about. That is amazing, oh my gosh. So um, so are they one-on-one sessions? Do you have group sessions? How does this work?
Speaker 2:So we have uh two, three technical ways to work with us. Our uh flagship program is our one-to-one coaching, which is everything is online. It's one-to-one coaching and it provides a weekly call with myself, as well as customized nutrition, exercise coaching but, more importantly, the ability to process the mindset method, which is a four-month curriculum that I created top to bottom, help you work through your relationship with your body and food. Then I have a group coaching program as well, where we have group calls rather than one-to-one calls. You get everything that you get with one-to-one, but in a group setting. And we also have the mindset method as a self-led course.
Speaker 2:So if you just wanted to work the method, there is a self-led course as well that I put together. That includes online videos. There's reflections in the app, so you're completing the same exact thing as a client. Would you have the opportunity to ask questions to me on my podcast if you do want to have some coaching around it? And then there's also a journal so you can journal each day. So those are the three ways that we work with clients. I love it.
Speaker 1:I mean it's so nice and there's also a journal so you can journal each day. So those are the three ways that we work with clients. I love it. I mean, it's so nice and there's something for everyone. I do feel like, yes, some people do great with the online, some people like the one-on-one, but I really think there's so much value in a group therapy session Once you get used to the people that are in there, because you can resonate with so many things that other people say or maybe you're afraid to say that and they're like oh my gosh, someone else struggles with this too. Oh, wow, there's people like me. This is amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, no, I agree, and I I used to have a large not a large team. I used to have a handful of coaches that work for me and as time has gone on it's just kind of uh, morphed into me, kind of being by myself, right, and working alone. So we actually are right now pivoting more to a cohort style. People will still have the opportunity to work with me one-on-one, but because I'm going to be the sole coach in this program now, moving forward until further, I don't know it's hard to it's hard for me.
Speaker 2:I recognize in a lot of people may be listening that I'm a really great leader if all I'm doing is leading, but if I have to coach admin, this, that I'm not a great leader, and that's something I've learned, not that I'm a bad leader, but I I'm not the leader that I want to be. So for now I'm just going to take all the clients. So we actually are moving more to the cohort style and it is. There's these aha moments and, oh my gosh, I thought that same thing yesterday, you know, and I love that synergy that group coaching can bring, because I'm working on my next program called the Mindset ofopause, and it's going to be basically everything I do in this program, but tuned into the perimenopause transition Cause I'm 42, I'm going through it, um, and a big part of all the research is community having that community to say I get it, you're going through it, I felt similar things, you're not crazy, so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:So I'm a big fan of groups and cohort style coaching.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, and when people think, when they hear eating disorder, they think anorexia or bulimia. But it can go the other way too, like you can eat too healthy or worry about you know that. So talk to that, talk on that a bit, a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm glad you brought that up. So orthorexia is a eating disorder, not otherwise specified. It's not actually in the DSM and is an eating disorder. But we recognize that there are people who get so fixated on clean eating and working out where Someone listening might be like oh, I like to eat clean, but is it at the expense of your social life, your relationships, your work? Does it cause immense anxiety when you can't be in control of what you eat? That's when we're looking at something like orthorexia.
Speaker 2:We also have bigorexia is what they're calling it for men who have this obsession with how big they can get. There's actually a really great. Yeah, there's a documentary. I don actually a really great. Yeah, there's a documentary. I don't remember what. You know, there's so many streaming channels I'm like I don't remember what it's on, but it's called Bigorexia and you'll see, I mean the way that they pose and they'll only take certain pictures in certain angles to make them look as broad as possible, and if they don't, they'll just like a woman would retake the photo to look as lean or whatever, as possible. They are doing that with their photos.
Speaker 2:So there's bigorexia and then, of course, binge eating and binge eating disorder. Now, obviously that there that is a actual diagnosis in the DSM. It is the most prevalent of all eating disorders. I think in our culture a lot of people say I'm a binge eater, when really they're probably an emotional or as I call, deprivation eater. Binge eating disorder itself I've worked with throughout my career, and it is in smaller bodies, it's in larger bodies, it's in men, it's in women. It's not just this. I think we have this picture of a binge eater. It's not that the same is true with all eating disorders. They all look different ways. There's not one type of person that has any of the ones that I described. It's all what they say in their mind.
Speaker 1:That's actually my motto is what you say in your mind, you see in the mirror, and that's the exact viewpoint of someone with any of these disorders that I've described, and just the opposite of that too, like with binge eating and emotional eating. Sometimes it can go the opposite direction. You don't eat, you know, so you have the two extremes, so you probably reach so many different types of people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and I truly believe that restriction or deprivation eating is what causes most people's binge eating, and I want to. Can I talk about?
Speaker 1:that a little bit more. Yes, please please.
Speaker 2:So it's not the deprivation eating, it's what's behind it. So I have geared my program around this theory called internal family systems theory. It's by Dick Schwartz and it talks about these different parts in your mindset, like almost like, if you think, different characters that are talking at one time. So when I'm looking at restrictive eating right, restrictive eating is usually associated with this sense of I'm only as good as I look. I need to look perfect. If I don't, I will fail. And then that perfect fail goes into your relationship with food right. And all these concepts have been created through stories or even perceptions of how you were raised and stories you made up because of those interactions.
Speaker 2:So when I'm restrictive eating, I'm in my perfect. When I'm in my perfect, then that tells me well, I'm perfect, so I can't possibly be this and the this is the really heavy stuff the shame, the not good enoughness, the feelings of worthlessness. So when I'm restricting food and being perfect, then I'm good, right, yeah, the problem is is that most people will burn out of their restriction or they're wanting to be perfect because neither is sustainable nor achievable right At a certain point. So then what I see binge eating from deprivation, eating right or restricting is actually a solution to the burnout of trying to be perfect and rigid and deprived of food. But the binge eating has so much shame right, so all those feelings I talked about that the restriction was trying to hide.
Speaker 2:That then starts coming up. So then, boom, we go back into the rigid eating, and then it's just over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. And it has to be such a tough cycle to break.
Speaker 2:Yes, Honestly, it is yes, if not dealt with correctly. A lot of people want to deal with the behavior, deal with the behavior. Just, this was a really great session with the client. She goes. You know, she went through a program that was like health at every size, intuitive eating, and she goes.
Speaker 2:They were teaching me to like breathe through the restriction of the food, like when I had a craving, like breathe through it, and she was breathing through it, thinking, okay, like, don't touch the food, don't touch the food, calm down. What I taught her was food has nothing to do with what you need. Right then and there, why are you turning to the food? Well, I'm stressed, I'm sad, I'm lonely, I'm tired. Okay, so, rather than breathing through to stop the craving, why don't we focus the breathing on? I'm safe, I can calm down, I can do that right.
Speaker 2:So a lot of people struggle with breaking the cycle because a lot of people will focus just on the behavior or they don't see the binge eating as a solution to a greater problem, as I do. They don't see the binge eating as a solution to a greater problem as I do. Right, if I can break up the perfectionism, the rigidity, the putting myself, worth putting my appearance into how worthy I am. Then the binge eating will naturally go away. Now, do we have to do some work around that too? Yes, cause it can also.
Speaker 2:There's a bit of conditioning, that can happen as well yeah and what I've seen, even just in four months, is that like a great reduction in binge episodes, just by going to the core, the beliefs about the self, then the behaviors. And one client who I worked with, she was a binge eater for decades and when I told her, when I taught her to feel her emotions and obviously set her up to do that in the safest way possible, she literally told me one day she goes, christina, I don't think I've ever felt my emotions. And when I felt them, you were right, they had a beginning, a middle and end. They lasted. It lasted about 90 seconds. And when I felt them, the more that I feel them, the less I want to binge. You know, and it's just, it's definitely can be hard to break, but with the right foundation it's not as hard as people think.
Speaker 1:Well, and I like how you also like you just touched on this about getting to the root cause of things, and I mean I just feel like where does all of this come from? Does it come from trauma in your life? Does it come from you know just what you're hearing from others, like why are some people more susceptible than others?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. So the majority of the clients that I work with, they have had a what I would consider traumas in their lives. Now, there are two different types of trauma. We have big T, which most people think is what trauma is as a whole. So big T trauma is war, sexual abuse, fiscal abuse, the death of a parent, natural disaster, right, major car accident. That's big T. Little t is what we call trauma by 10,000 paper cuts, right. It's these little instances in Gabor Mate Dr Gabor Mate explains it well where something good should have happened and it didn't.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. So the ability to receive praise around your character, the ability to connect with the parent, to be loved, feel loved by a parent, the ability to feel safe Did it happen Right? Ability to grow the ability to feel safe didn't happen right. Ability to grow the ability to have variety in your life it didn't happen when it should have happened. And because children are egocentric, they don't know that we have our own subconscious minds, they say, well, these bad things are happening. Mommy is ignoring me. It must be me. Daddy is at work all the time. It must be me. Mom and dad are fighting all the time. It must be me and going on with.
Speaker 2:What Dr Mate says is trauma is not what happened to you, it's the story that you make up about yourself, about what happened to you. So, oh well, when daddy sees I got a good grade, he praises me and I get seen by him, even though he's at work all the time. But when I get the good grade, he, like, focuses on me. So I'm going to take a note of that. Yeah, oh, the next time that happened again, right so, and then I got the bad grade, daddy didn't focus on me, he didn't see me, so take note of that.
Speaker 2:Then, as these stories, right so, the, the seed is planted and then our brains start focusing on how to get more of that, how to be better, do better, get that praise. That's the connection to daddy that I'm missing and that's where perfectionism, people pleasing, um, overachievers we even see like people being kind of invisible, right, not wanting to be seen. Um, we have people who have, you know, hero, complex. These types of personalities grow out of these trauma by 10,000 paper cuts, the little T traumas. And, yes, there. Then we compound, on top of that, societal messages around the way we're supposed to look, how we're supposed to act. Social media has exacerbated this tenfold. We are seeing an increase in eating disorders in certain age groups because of social media, and so the nice thing is there is that you're not broken. There's nothing wrong with you. You just it in a new way, in a mature brain. Right, but we have to. I always say you can't change a behavior if you don't understand why you do it.
Speaker 2:That's why, I like to go to more of the root cause. We're not processing per se, because I'm not acting as a therapist, but at least understanding. Oh wow, I didn't realize like this is how I got my dad's attention when I was a kid, like.
Speaker 1:I don't need to do that anymore Like I can.
Speaker 2:I can praise myself. That's super helpful on this. But yes, trauma is a huge. That's a huge impact, little T trauma especially.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no. When you were saying that, I'm like thinking back oh yeah, okay, Some of this is making sense now.
Speaker 2:Yes, when I get interviewed it's often a little therapy session too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly I bet, oh my gosh. And I think that, unfortunately, I feel like almost every woman can identify with some of this and I don't understand why that is. Why are we like that as females?
Speaker 2:It breaks my heart it does. And we're treated to, we're raised to take care of. I mean, one of the first things we receive is a baby doll, right, we're raised to focus our attentions on the efforts or taking care of someone else and putting effort into something outside of ourselves. So boys are not raised that way. They're raised to create solutions and fix problems. And you know, be tough now, that's not healthy either. But you know, we look at our mothers, our grandmothers, then the toys around us.
Speaker 2:You know how, when we're a good girl, when we're a bad girl and I think it's just the societal norms that make us more susceptible to this codependent types of behaviors, codependency being like basing my worth on external validation rather than internal validation. Even telling a boy like you're so strong, now, yes, we're talking usually like show me your muscles. There's still some part of the character in that right, um, but we don't. We don't have that for girl. I guess we. Now that I'm just processing this out loud, you know you're a good girl, right, and good girls are quiet, or good girls don't share their feelings. It's almost like you're a good girl, but you know, but yes, yeah, I mean, this industry is not built off of this reality. It's built on the absolute opposite and using those insecurities for women specifically, we don't. When we see before and after pictures, it's rarely men yes that's true, yep, you know.
Speaker 2:And. And so you know it's rarely men. Yes, that's true, yep, you know. And. And so you know it's unfortunate. And I'm, I'm up against this monster you know of this industry to say no, that's actually not how it should be.
Speaker 1:And is it typically the individual that reaches out to you? Or do you feel like the individual is nudged by someone else Because what comes to mind is like an alcoholic, they're in denial and then maybe they have to go to some kind of rehab or there's an intervention or something like that. So I'm wondering if an eating disorder is the same Like do they recognize?
Speaker 2:it in themselves when I was working in that capacity because now I don't necessarily take on eating disordered clients, yeah but I will say I've taken a handful who have been through recovery and now want to recreate their relationship with exercise and food in a way that is focused around health and longevity. So I have taken those clients on. But to answer your question, this is a great question Most of the time people go into treatment because their relationship is threatened. That is, that is what research shows that their relationship of some sort is threatened, whether it's the relationship with their dog, for some people I love my dog, so I get it or, you know, a parent, a spouse, their children. That is usually the reason that people end up in treatment. But again, that's still.
Speaker 2:I'm doing it for this other thing. It really is about the other side of it too. That they talk about in like AA is the gift of it's I'm going to say it wrong, so I apologize to anyone in the program. It's like the gift of it's the I'm going to say it wrong, so I apologize to anyone in the program it's like the gift of exhaustion of. I was just so I couldn't do it anymore, I was so tired of it and they see it as a gift that that was my gift to finding sobriety or or, obviously, treatment. But with eating disorders they do start very young. So I was just messaging with a former client's mom who's still struggling.
Speaker 2:It's been 10 years in and out of treatment and it's so sad, and I'm sad for her because they're a wonderful family. But you need to have that gift of exhaustion Again I'm saying it wrong, I know it's another word there, but it gets the point across to say, okay, I'm finally freaking, done, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what's one tip or one piece of advice you can give to the person that's listening out there and they're like okay, that's me Like, I don't like my body, and you know you can't just say, oh, you're beautiful, okay, well, what does that mean? Right, right.
Speaker 2:The best. Here we go. I want you to think about that part of your brain. This is something I do with all my clients. Okay, I want you to think of it as if it was standing here right Outside of you, like well, think about what it would look like, right, think about its character. And then I want you to name it. Give it a name, right? So, whatever that is. I've had Medusa, I've had Karen, I've had Ursula.
Speaker 2:Sir was one of them. Everyone names their parts, that part of them, because we want to think about it as something that answers your mind but is not who you are, because you wouldn't talk that way to your best friend, no, right, but you tend to talk that way to yourself. And if we can separate that from ourself, we can say we'll use sir because that's top of mind. Sir has entered my mindset and you know, you know Christina with sir and Christina without sir. And beginning to see, when does sir enter your mind? And that's when you're criticizing your body, you're pinching your stomach in the mirror. You were, um, you know, trying on clothes and and trying on 10 000 different outfits because nothing looks good. Yeah, when, that's when sir is in your mind, why?
Speaker 2:Okay, so now, so it's notice that it's there right by the behaviors like what? What behaviors? Just, sir, or whatever your name of your character is. What did you? What do you associate with that part of your brain being taken over, or your brain being taken over by that part? Excuse me? Then, start to learn what are the triggers. Then, once we know the triggers, we can then plan, for you know how to better intersect the triggers. It's not that they're going to go away, but we can better manage them so that, sir doesn't doesn't exist in our minds. But my one piece of advice is just kind of naming it. We just want to be aware and you know, change your behaviors. That's what I would say to anyone who's in that place.
Speaker 1:Very good Now, christina. How can everyone find you? This has been so fascinating. I truly appreciate you spending this time with me.
Speaker 2:You can find me at Mindset of Matter Coaching on Instagram and TikTok. You can also find me at my website, MindsetofMattercom. I also have a podcast, the Mindset Mirror Connection, if you want to throw another podcast into your list.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely All right, christina. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, confession time. I had to cut this one short because the winds kicked up and I had to make a mad dash to the basement with the dogs. I thought I heard the weather, sirens. Oh my gosh, that is Kansas life for you. But I'm so glad we got everything in that we did. Christina dropped some amazing insights on body image, food freedom and why healing goes way deeper than just eat this. Not that If her message resonated with you, definitely check the show notes for ways to connect with her and learn more about her Mindset to Matter program. A huge thank you to Christina for sharing this time with me and being patient and flexible with the weather and the internet. And thank you to all of you for tuning in Storm and All and, if you, to all of you for tuning in storm and all. And if today's episode hit home, share it with a friend, leave a review or just shoot me a message to let me know what spoke to you All right. Until next time, stay safe, stay grounded and if the winds start howling maybe don't wait as long as I did to head for the basement. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 1:If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to follow Spandex and Wine so you don't miss an episode. To do this, just go to the podcast and click subscribe or follow. Wherever you're listening, look for the plus sign or follow button. This is one of the best things that you can do for the podcast. If you'd also be willing to give a five-star review, that would be amazing and much appreciated. Lastly, please share an episode with a friend or five to keep the love going, and join the Spandex and Wine community in our private Facebook group by searching Spandex and Wine. Feel free to reach out to me at any time by emailing info at spandexandwinecom or text me at 913-392-2877. I appreciate you, thank you.
