Wearing Grief w/ Mary Carlton

Grief changes the rules overnight. One day you’re living your normal life, and the next you’re trying to figure out how to breathe, eat, move, and exist in a world that looks the same but feels completely different.

I’m joined by Mary, the creator of Wearing Grief, who shares the story of losing her 21-year-old daughter, Grace, in a sudden car accident and how that kind of loss reshapes identity, relationships, and even the simplest daily choices. We talk about why she started designing grief shirts as a form of catharsis, how the project grew into community grief groups, and why she’s intentional about honoring her daughter’s life without turning her work into a replay of the worst day.

We also get practical about grief support and what to say to someone who is grieving. Mary explains why “let me know if you need anything” rarely helps, and what does help instead: specific offers, tiny errands, paper plates, soup, taking out the trash, watering the dog, and yes, bringing toilet paper. We dig into the power of steady presence after the funeral, and how people can show up without trying to fix pain. Since this is Spandex and Wine, we also explore grief and the body, including hip pain, nervous system overload, and why walking, yoga, breathwork, meditation, and nature can help you feel safe in your body again.

If you’ve been searching for real talk on grief and gratitude, bereavement, coping with loss, wellness after tragedy, or how to help a grieving friend, you’ll find language and tools you can actually use. Subscribe to Spandex and Wine, leave a five-star review, and share this with someone who needs steady support right now. What’s one specific thing you wish people would do when you’re hurting?

IG: @wearinggrief
Website: Wearing Grief – WearingGrief

Transcript

Welcome To Spandex And Wine

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Spandex and Wine Podcast. I'm your host, Robin Hackney, and I'm so happy that you're here. This podcast is a place for conversations about balancing a healthy lifestyle and being happy. More specifically, happy hour. Together we'll explore all things wellness and wine. I hope you learn a little, laugh a lot, and along the way, know you're not alone on this balanced wellness journey. Ready to jump in? Pour something in your glass that makes you happy because it's time for Spandex and Wine. Hey Mary, it is so nice to meet you. I mean, via Zoom. I guess we're still meeting each other, right? We're not in front of I I'm happy that we have this technology that we can connect like this. So it's a good thing. I think I think so too. Yeah. Yes, yes. And um, I found you because of Instagram. I was just scrolling through, and it's so interesting what pops up and what your, you know, they allow you to see what they don't allow you to see, but your post about grief and gratitude coexisting at the same time. I don't know. At that moment, it really spoke to me. And I thought, this would be a really neat lady to have on the podcast as I was looking through more of your posts. I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, your content's so great. It looks like you're helping so many people. Um, so let's start with your story. How did you even get to this place where you are and educating people about grief?

Wearing Grief And Grief Groups

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Um, well, like most people, well, I I don't want to say like most people, like people that are fortunate enough not to have to experience grief so early in life. And I say early, like I'm not in my mid-40s, but early in life, you know, um, really in an unnatural form. We expect to lose our parents, lose our grandparents, lose our parents, and then, you know, maybe some friends. We don't ever expect to lose children, you know, and not there isn't any way to explain it. There's no way to to explain to someone who hasn't ever experienced that depth of loss what it feels like. Just like I don't pretend to understand what it feels like to lose a spouse because I haven't lost one. And that has its, it's its own container with its own individual losses, right? So there's the saying that you can't compare and you can't. And at the same time, a lot of the um, a lot of what we move through, how we cope, the, the, the sense of things that we lose are the same. You know, it's there's this huge innate sense of self and understanding of how you fit into the world, how I used to look at it and say, the world is a game. And somebody told me that I've been playing wrong for the last 40 years and then never told me how to play. So now I'm starting all over again with very little understanding of even myself, you know. Um, so anyway, so Grace was my oldest daughter, and she died when she was 21. And it was in a car accident. It was very tragic, very sudden, and um I'm very thankful it was immediate. There was no suffering. Um, but it was completely unexpected. I mean, she was 21, the prime of her life. One of the most I wanted to be her when I grew up. You know what I mean? Like I know we all love our children and think they're all wonderful, and they are, but I for real wanted to be her when I grew up. I thought she was just so amazing. Um, and she's she's not here anymore. And that is such a that is such a contradiction, right? In in understanding. And I had no idea what to do with myself. I had been a stay at fortunately, I'd been a stay-at-home mom for the majority of her life. Um, and I never went a day without her. She was my best friend. We had coffee on the phone every morning when she was gone. I mean, she was, she was like a third. I have three kids, she was a third of my everything. Um, so when that happened, I didn't know what to do with myself. I mean, I lost my grandparents um in college, though, right? So it was my grandparents, but I weren't I wasn't close with them anymore. They were still this like idea of childhood to me. I didn't see them as adults. And um, so that was sad, but it was also removed. Um, and then when my dad died, that's a whole different. I was in Southeast Asia when my dad died, and I didn't make it home in time. So then I was stuck in the States for two weeks after the funeral, not knowing what to do, because you know, tickets back to Southeast Asia were incredibly expensive. So I had to stay here and wait. Um, but even that wasn't the same as this. And so even though I had experienced the loss of my dad, I had no idea how to handle the loss of my daughter. It was just earth-shattering. Um so I don't know about you, but um I wear comfortable clothes all the time. I work from home now, you know what I mean? I'm a stay-at-home mom. Like everything is about comfort and efficiency, but I didn't want to wear what I had. You know, every little thing matters and yet it doesn't matter in those moments. And there was, I couldn't express how I felt, but nothing that I put on made me either helped me or showed people how wounded I was. I couldn't find a grief t-shirt that was like not, oh, they're in heaven. And God and I don't talk anymore, you know. So I didn't want to wear shirts like that. I didn't want to um romanticize the pain that I was feeling. Um right. And I wanted, I wanted people to see that I was bleeding when I walked into the grocery store. So I just I couldn't find anything and I started designing shirts just as a catharsis, right? As a way to to to embrace the pain that I was feeling, but also I don't know, give it just a little bit of space because I was doing something, like I was putting it somewhere so you were able to, like I was able to focus, um, even though it but it was still around what was hurting me. I didn't feel like I was ignoring it to go, you know, do something else. Um, and then I decided to take it public. It was just a thing that I was doing. And then a friend of mine was like, those are I like those, those are really good. You should create a store. So I created a store. And then somebody's like, Well, why don't you ever talk about what you're dealing with and and how hard it is and how life-changing it is. And I'm like, Because why would anybody want to listen? Nobody wants to listen to anybody in pain. That's not, you know, fun. And I also I'm not willing to talk about um the real ugly details. Like some people ask me, like very, very specific and hard questions, and they don't really pertain to any kind of help or aid or peace or anything. Like, I don't want to talk about what she looked like. I don't want to talk about, you know, I don't, I don't want what I do to be a remembrance of how she died. I want it to be that her death has has formed this part of myself and it's her love that continues, right? Not the uglier parts. Um, you know, because she's more than that day. That day didn't define her. That day shifted me, you know what I mean? But that's not all she was. Right. Um, so anyway, so we have now we're at Wearing Grief, and Wearing Grief um started out as some clothing and it's turned into an online presence. It's turned into um, you know, we have monthly grief groups here in town now, and um, we're starting um an online one next month um with my niece, who got her master's in communications with a focus on how grief, she's much brainier than I am. Um I I don't remember exactly what the thesis is, but it's about how grief changes how we interact with other people. Like that was her master's thesis. Um and so she works, she's 26 and she works at, she's a hospice um like organizer for grief outreach. Um, and she helps me with wearing grief. And then she also does some work with a company called Compassionate Navigation. Yep. And so she and I are working together, which has been also cathartic because she is also my daughter's best friend, because they were only a year apart. Um, so it's been, I mean, there are beautiful things that can come from loss, um, but that's not a requirement, right? That's where some toxic, toxic positivity comes in. I think if you find something beautiful in it and you're willing to accept that just as what it is, then that's up to you. You know what I mean? It doesn't have sometimes it's just about surviving. Sometimes it's just about waking up every day and breathing, and that is success enough, you know, after dealing with that kind of grief. But um, but no, I was just saying that like we so we started doing um grief groups and um because grief isn't just about death either, you know what I mean? Like it's about any kind of loss. I read an article the other day that was speaking to the fact that we say really pretty words like, um, you know, when we take a trip down memory lane or we're feeling nostalgic about things, um, that's grief. And I had never really looked at it like that before, but you are grieving the loss of something that was valuable to you, right? Yes, time has passed, and yes, we're older. But if I hope you had a good childhood, I did. Do you remember the the you know, the fantasy about Christmas and Thanksgivings and right, the family and the get together, big or small, and how that makes you warm and yet sad at the same time? Like you're grieving. That's part of grief, right? Something that you no longer have anymore that was important to you. So everybody, all walks of life, all grief, all that's welcome. And you know, for our online stuff and you know, our stuff here at home, like it's it's really just about like pain shouldn't be ignored, you know. There's there's nothing about it that's shameful at all.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

No, no, and I am so very sorry about your loss. And I feel it feels so cliche to say that, but sometimes you don't know what to say to someone. And I feel like you know, you have to reach out and say something, but you know, do you get stuck in that or do you get tired of hearing the same thing over and over?

SPEAKER_02 10:19

I I don't get tired of it. I I know that when before I lost my daughter um specifically, I didn't talk to people the way that I talk to them now about grief and loss and death because I got worried about what if it makes them more sad? And being on this side of the coin, I'm like, that's not gonna happen. You know, you're not gonna make me sad by asking me what her name is, you know. Um, but I did the same thing. I I did the cliches, I said the I'm sorry's, I said, hey, give me a call if you need anything. On this side, I'm not gonna call you. I can't remember half the time, you know, what I'm doing, or I'm sorry, I love you, bye. My son's going to work. Um I can't remember, like my brain doesn't have the capacity anymore, right? To to to work the way that it used to. So asking me in all of that, plus the pain and feeling like a burden and not wanting to bother anybody to be like, hey, I haven't cooked in three days and I don't have any milk and I'm out of toilet paper. Could you go to the grocery store for me? I'm not gonna do that. It's not gonna happen, you know. I admire people that are willing to um to step out of themselves in those moments and say, hey, friend, I need you. Yeah, because I couldn't do that. I just I the people that brought toilet paper were my favorite people because and I didn't have to go to the store.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Oh, you know, that is so helpful though. Like I wouldn't have thought of that. That is okay. Well, thank you. Right?

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Toilet paper, paper towels, and paper plates are good too, right? Just throwaways, right? Yeah, that makes sense. Makes total sense. You hear a lot about um, oh, just go over and do the dishes. If somebody would have washed that cup that she had drank out of, I'd have probably just kicked them, you know. So, like there are things that you can do, but think about just the really mundane things, taking the trash out, feeding them, watering the dog, you know, maybe mowing the lawn if it's the springtime, or bringing toilet paper, dropping off some soup. It doesn't have to be anything big. And it might be uncomfortable. Like it, they might not talk to you. They might look a mess, probably haven't washed their hair in four days. You know what I mean? Um, maybe take a peek in and make sure they have soap and shampoo, but really just come in, do the thing, and then if they don't want you to stay, don't stay. It's not personal, but they're gonna remember. Like I have so one of my very best friends now is actually the mother of Grace's high school boyfriend. And I had not met her prior to Grace. No, I met her once prior to Grace dying. And um, when Grace died, she came over and she never left. She never left. She sat on the porch with me. I was rotting on the porch for six, six months. She sat there with me. And every time she did something, it was always a, hey, do you want to come? Texting. Just want you know I love you. I'm gonna go do the thing. Do you want to come with me? And I asked her one time why she kept asking. And she said, because one day you're gonna say yes. And I want to be the person that goes and does the thing with you because I also know that I will take you right home if you ask me, and I won't make you feel crappy about it. Like I am just here for you. Um and it's just a beautiful thing to just continue to show up. Um send little heart emojis, just be like, hey, you don't have to respond. I just want you to know I'm thinking about you. You know what I mean? But just people that didn't fall off the face of the earth after the funeral, you know what I mean? Um, they're they're my favorite people right now because they sat with me in the lowest part of my life. Um, probably the smelliest part of my life, too. You know, not to make light of it, but really, I don't think I brushed my teeth for four months. I just it was you had to have some strength of character to sit there with me, you know, in that that horrible place and to not leave. Um, and I ran some people off. They one of them tried to manipulate my children to get me to come inside. And I just unloaded on her, and I don't remember doing it. And my husband is like, yeah, it was very out of character and very shocking, and she never came out. You know, so really it's just just do it, just show up, bring toilet paper, some soup. I love you, I'm here for you. I'll see it, I'll see you tomorrow. You know, just the the continuous presence, I think, is it gives it gave me something to hold on to.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

You know what I mean? Like when everything felt like it was just disintegrating, like that person that kept showing up became an anchor in my life. And that's that's now I don't know how I could have gotten through without that, without that kind of presence.

Grief In The Body And Healing

SPEAKER_00 15:15

I mean, that's very helpful information. I really appreciate you sharing that piece today. That that was fabulous. Um, and you know, one of the things that I always say about the podcast is it's spandex and wine, and spandex is stretchy. So I try and, you know, tie in some wellness where I can. And I know that grief can show up in your body in so many different ways. Right. Um, and you hang on to it. It's hard to release. So, from a physical standpoint, tell us kind of what you went through and how you got past some of that and what you're still dealing with.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Well, um, so it's just funny that you asked because one of the things that happened is um, so Grace died in May. So it was springtime in in Indiana, right? So it's pretty, it's nice, it's green. I lived on the porch. I couldn't, I couldn't be inside. That was not enough space, and I couldn't leave. So I sat on the porch for just hours and hours and hours. And um, I went to my doctor because my hips were hurting. I mean, really hurting. Um, and I couldn't lay, I couldn't stand, I couldn't sit, like they were aching. And so, and I she'd been my doctor for years and she knew about Grace. She was Grace's doctor. And um, she goes, Well, you know, both of your parents had hip issues and they had hip replacements, and I feel like maybe we should get an MRI. Well, I'm not a dummy. I'm not saying that anybody is that believes they're doctors, you know what I'm saying. That's not what I mean. But I've, I mean, I'm in my 40s. I've done a lot of athletic things in my life. I've done a lot of yoga, a lot of, you know, hiking and running and the things. And I'm like, I feel like this has something to do with the fact that I'm sitting on my, in my chair for like 15 hours a day. I'm not moving, like there's no movement. And so, um, so when you when you talk about how it lives in your body, like it does in multiple ways, right? You have the the the truly physical aspect of either like how you are handling the psychological impacts of grief. For me, I couldn't eat and I didn't want to move, right? Some people sink into fitness, right? They sink into things that give them a way to just exhaust themselves so that they can like get up, do the things, go to bed, because there's escape in that, right? Um, but so there's that aspect. So um, so movement is good, right? And I couldn't do it, but even in not doing it, there was friction with my healthcare provider because I don't think I needed a hip replacement. I think I needed her to tell me to get off my ass. You know, sorry, I didn't mean that. But you know what I mean? Like she needed to, like, you know, grab me by the shoulders and be like, hey, you have to move your body, even if you're just walking around the block, you have to get up and move. Yeah. So fast forward a little bit. And um, here in town, a new um, I knew what singing bowls were, you know what I mean? The yes. Um, but uh a place in town had opened and it was a wellness studio and it was yoga and and it I felt very drawn. And I hadn't done yoga in probably five or six years at this point. And I went in and I didn't have any expectations. I thought it was gonna be very uncomfortable because I knew how emotional I was. I knew how difficult it was going to be to sit in that kind of environment where it invites, you know what I mean, like settling down and breathing. Because I knew once I started doing that, all of it was gonna come up and come out because I had such a strict hold on my emotions and like like my container was very tight, you know. Um, and I remember the woman running it, and um she didn't know me, I didn't know her, you know. I I sat down and she looked at me and she smiled, and I sat there and I just started crying. Because once those sounds start and the music and the peace, and just take a deep breath, and then having somebody say that that no matter how you are, it's okay for you to be here like that. I don't need you to change, I don't need you to adapt, I don't need you to filter. It's okay. However, you are right now is okay. And I was awful, you know, but being invited to just to let that be okay felt like it was such a gift. And she was the first person that sat with me that I didn't know, you know what I mean? And just let it be. She didn't try to fix it, you know what I mean? And so when you talk about what we can do and you keep inviting people, you keep showing up, you keep asking them to step with you, right? And and you'll only step as far as they they want to go. But to be that supportive thing and then have it be something physical, like a walk or a little trip out to the park, or you go out into nature, like those are put your feet in the grass and you know what I mean, and listen to the bees and that kind of thing, and take a deep breath. And then um to be able to hold that container for them so that they can figure out how to feel safe in their body, I think is a really important thing. And then of course you have the wine afterwards, right? You go home and you have the drink. Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, so um, so then I learned, I mean, at that point it was yoga, you know, it was breathing, it was meditation, it was um a lot of allowing the pain to hit and trying to figure out how to learn and trust that it won't stay that way.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Not that it won't come back, right? But you know, emotions come, they're high, they they go. They come back, they're high, they go, right? So learning to trust that cycle, I think is what is where the physical part came with it. Cause I don't know about you, but when when you like work, you sweat, you know what I mean? It's like your emotions just start to come up, and then sometimes they'll come out. And it's almost like you when you come down into your body, it lets your head relax a little bit, and then your emotions can come up, and then you can like throw them up and then you can move on, you know. It's I don't know. I think I think it's important, but it's just everybody responds to it differently, you know. But breath work, meditation, learning to find um safety in the quiet, I think is important. And I thought walking was great, you know, you just slow stroll down the neighborhood and um then you're close to home, so you can go home whenever you feel like you're done.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yes. No, I think walking can be so therapeutic. It's just it's like a moving meditation, is what I tell people.

unknown 21:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

It is, it is, yeah, yeah.

When Therapy Does Not Fit

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yeah. And it's interesting, you know, that you you were drawn to yoga first because one of the things that I was taught in my yoga training is that we do carry the majority of our emotions in our hips. So the fact that you've got that in your hips, yes. And I've seen it seen it to with some of my clients. I've done it myself in a yoga class where you're doing a hip opener and you're just crying for no reason. Think of someone that you haven't thought of, you know, and how new, no, I don't know how long. Um, but yeah, I think that that's a really good healthy way to process some grief um instead of pushing it down. I'm curious if you had did um any therapy or did you just Oh I tried.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Um we had uh uh like a family therapist, like a marriage therapist. I mean, I've been married to a uh Colorado mountain man for you know darn near 25 years. There's been some pitfalls there. But um but we had a therapist. Unfortunately, he was ill and he couldn't see us um for a little while. And then when we did see him, he admitted that he didn't, he wasn't a grief therapist. And I don't, I had a hard time finding a therapist that fit us. Both of us are very, we're very kind of domineering people. And I don't want to say type A, but we're very stubborn, you know what I mean? We we know ourselves very well. Um, so finding somebody that fit with both of us and then also quickly could establish trust, right? Because it was, it's also a very emotional, like very vulnerable thing, you know. Um, so I think it is good to have people to talk to, whether that's a therapist. Yeah, I fortunately, one of my dear friends is a psychologist. I have uh one of my best friends is a chiropractor. You know what I mean? Like I feel like I have all of these pieces of puzzles that are also people that were super invested in being available to me and, you know, encouraging me to utilize the, you know, the skills that they had to kind of work through. And unfortunately, my friend that's a psychologist, she had lost her daughter at I think it was just six weeks before I had lost Grace. So I remember calling her and going, okay, like tell me what to do. And she's like, I don't know what to do. And I still don't know what to do. It's been almost five years, be five years next month. And I still, I don't know. It is one day at a time, you know. I mean, it's just yeah, just it's but it's like life in general, right? I think it's it's just one day at a time. Life just throws things at you, and we just kind of cope and and move on. Hopefully, with a little bit of you know, movement and a little bit of wine, things are okay. I do enjoy, I enjoy the name of your podcast.

Grief Beyond Death And Daily Life

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Oh, good, good. Oh, yes, and you know, I I think that just holding space for other people, even when you don't realize what's going on in their life, because the majority of us are carrying something around. And it's hard to sometimes see that in yourself. It's hard to sometimes explain it to other people, but there's always, you know, something going on there. And you know, I I I give my husband a hard time because like if we're going down the highway and he's yelling at somebody, I'm like, you have no idea where that person is heading, right? Where they've just been coming from. Right. I mean, it could be it could be anything. So or it could be a butthole. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

In which case, you know, what do they say in the South? Um, bless your heart. Just bless your heart. Bless your heart. Right. They say it with six different inflections and it means six different things. Yeah.

unknown 25:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

But no, I I do understand what you're saying. Um, my husband says that a lot. He's like, I try to remember that maybe that guy is late to his kids' soccer game, or you know what I mean? Or maybe that one got a phone call and they're on their way to the hospital or something. Like, try to understand that that's a whole life, you know, in another person and that we're not singular in the way that we interact with life, right? We all have relationships, we all have jobs, we have responsibilities, we have goals and desires and dreams, we have disappointments, we have achievements. Like all of those things are universal. Everybody experiences them. So it just makes sense that everybody is feeling things, you know, just as deeply or just as widely as we do. Um, but as we found out lately, it's it's sometimes it's easier to see people as a villain, you know what I mean? Because then it makes you not have to take accountability for your own interaction in that moment.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Um, but yeah, I'm I'm sure if we sat down, you know, you could probably list five or six things that you're grieving in your life, right? And your grief isn't any better or different or worse or whatever than mine is. It's it's just different. It's a different kind of grief, you know. But the but the foundation, like the pieces of that are the same. You're missing something, you're struggling to adapt to to life without that something. You know what I mean? Um, I have friends, so my youngest is a senior in high school, and um, my friends are like, Oh, I'm sad about my kids going off to school, and I don't want to tell you that because your daughter died. I'm like, you're going to miss them. Yes, they're still alive, but um, but the reality is that this 18-year stretch of your life, if this is your last one, is now over. Yeah. So you're grieving that, and that's a big deal. That's a big transition in life, you know. It is you're stepping into a period of redef, you know, of redefining who you are, you know, where you're at in life, what what role you're filling, what you're providing, what you want.

SPEAKER_03 27:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

You know, deciding what to do with my day is wild when it's not something, you know, earmarked towards the kids. You know?

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Yeah. No, and I'm glad you mentioned that because um I also feel like sometimes we do that to ourselves, that we just think someone else's grief is at a higher level. So why am I feeling bad? Because so and so is going through this or so and so is going through that. It's okay for you to have your own things to grieve and to mourn. Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Yes, I agree. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Yeah. And Mary, I know you're pressed for time, but I want to make sure that all of the links are going to be to ask a question. So um, just real quick, I'm gonna put all of Mary's information in the show notes so you guys can go check that and you can um see everything that she has going on because she has some wonderful resources. You can check out the t-shirts and everything that she has, um, you know, get information about the online. But I'm just gonna go the order that the ladies got on the call. That's the only logical way I can do it. So Anna, how about you? And that sweet baby you're holding. I'm babysitting in the car.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Um, I I I loved what she said about showing up for people because um, you know, I'm recently in it as well. Um, the bringing the toilet paper in the Kleenexes, amazing. The biggest thank you to that. And the also to help um by saying something specific. Not is there something I can do? Let me know if I can do anything. Say, can like I'm at Walmart, can I grab you something? Or I something very specific because having been there so recently, I know that I'm not gonna I'm not gonna ask anybody for any help. I'm not gonna, I'm I'm out of milk, I'm not gonna ask anybody to help me. I'm I'm in this, I can do it, I'm put on my big girl pants, I can mow the grass, I can do things I've never done, I hate it, but I can do it. And and I'm like when um she said at the beginning how you wanted to wear a shirt that said, I'm bleeding, I'm in pain, you know, like I'm hurting. That's me mowing the grass. Like I'm I'm mowing the grass thinking, oh, I'm so mad that I have to do this. And I'm I'm so mad that I'm feeling this way, and I don't want to tell anybody about it. Yeah. I just want to be in it.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Right. But it's such a rupture, you know what I mean? And it's not like however many, you know, hundreds of years ago where you knew when someone was grieving because they were wearing an article of clothing or a ribbon, or or you know what I mean, or it was the year of mourning, and you knew, and people provided for you. And all you had to do was grieve. That's all you had to do. And you were excused, like your behavior was excused in that time period too. Um, because I did all kinds of crazy things that first year that I now would not do because some kind of normalcy has returned to my brain processes, you know. But that first year, I don't, I don't, I don't know how I kept friends. I don't know how my husband put up with me. I don't know how my kids continued to, you know, to want to be with me because I was just an alien in my own life, in my own mind. And I I didn't want to have to talk about it, but it was the only thing that I wanted to talk about, however I was feeling at the moment. And I just wanted to wear something that told people that they could, they could F off because that's the mood that I was in, or they can ask me a question because I'm feeling okay, or big sad crying emoji because I'm just feeling really sad and I might cry any minute right now. Like I just wish people could just see, you know, where I was like just you know, just in the moment on any given day without having to verbally express it because it never came out.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Yeah. No, I was looking through your t-shirts, and those they're good. They're very good. Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's I I'm not an artist, I'm not a speaker, I'm not a writer, but I mean, we have my my niece and I have this um this idea of uh like an interactive, you you've heard of those like burn after reading books, right? Where you're supposed to journal and then you tear them out and you burn. Um, but we're like, there's so much more than just that when you're grieving, you know, you need to learn to breathe, you need to take a walk, you need to write notes to yourself, you need to set things on fire, you need to take a pencil and stab holes in this piece of paper because you're enraged in that moment. So we have plans for this kind of all-encompassing, like interactive book that kind of has everything in it, you know, because three times a day I want to stab somebody and then I'm gonna cry about it, and then I'll tell you a joke later. I mean, it's it's so irrational and yet so relatable. And I'm sure Deanna understands exactly what I'm talking about. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

I've had some very cathartic fire pit fires. I bet you have. I bet you have. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Yeah. And I am very sorry for your loss, Deanna.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

I'm very sorry for your loss. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Deanna, thanks for sharing. Um, any of the other ladies, if you're at a place where you want to pop on and ask a question, we have a couple more minutes. Anybody else? That's okay.

Grief And Gratitude Plus Wine Picks

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Yeah, that's absolutely fine. That is okay. Yeah. I'm really um, thank you. I don't even really remember what the the post was that you had commented on, but I think it was probably sometimes I do some really you can see it. If you watch some of the videos, some of them are really flippant, and you can tell, Deanna, that I'm not having a good day and I'm just kind of nicely giving it to the world. And some days I'm, you know, a little bit more, a little bit more open-minded about, you know, how things are happening in the moment. But I think that the one that you were talking about was um was holding grief and gratitude. But basically they don't, they're not in equal measure, right? You don't just hold them both. Sometimes you hold more gratitude, sometimes you hold more grief, sometimes you can't find the other one at all. And all of those are okay. You know what I mean? Um, it would be great if we held them in more grief or more gratitude than grief, you know. But the reality is that that loss and being sad doesn't work that way, you know. It's a it's just a roller coaster. Um what's your favorite wine? I feel like we should end with that since you're spandex and wine. I feel like we need some suggestions.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yes, yes. Oh, okay. Well, I put in my newsletter today a white wine that I have been loving. So those of you that get my newsletter, check that out. But um typically in the summertime I'm Sauvignon Blanc, but I do, I've been going through a season of I like to start with a glass of red and then end with a glass of um, I mean start with a glass of white, end with red. So Malbec is my go-to on the red. Okay. And you?

SPEAKER_02 34:41

I actually I don't drink a lot. Um, I think that the the last time I bought wine, I think we were going through wine country in California and there was some Moscato in like, you know, in the hills, and and we stopped and had a glass, and I think we ended up with a case of it. Okay. Um, you know that happens. Um, but I did, I did used to have wine nights with my neighbor, and then she went and got pregnant. So our Friday night wine nights turned into like Saturday morning coffee time, you know, and she's due. She's due, I think, in like three weeks. So it's been like nine months since I've had a glass of wine.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Well, what a good neighbor you are. Excellent, excellent.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

Well, thank you so much. This has been a good time. I wish we had time, more time to visit and talk, but I do appreciate you um and what you're doing and what you're sharing. And thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

I will make sure I get you the links as well. Awesome. Thank you so much. It was good talking to you all.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

I hope you all have a good night. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Take care, guys. You too. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying this podcast, be sure to follow Spandex and Wine so you don't miss an episode. To do this, just go to the podcast and click subscribe or follow wherever you're listening. Look for the plus sign or follow button. This is one of the best things that you can do for the podcast. If you'd also be willing to give a five-star review, that would be amazing and much appreciated. Lastly, please share an episode with a friend or five to keep the love going. And join the Spanx and Wine community in our private Facebook group by searching Spandex and Wine. Feel free to reach out to me at any time by emailing info at spandexandwine.com or text me at 913 392 2877. I appreciate you. Thank you.