#27 Gentle Nudge: Apologize Well

In this episode of the 'Be the Sun, Not the Salt' podcast, hosts Dr. Harry Cohen and Connie Fontaine explore Chapter 7, 'Apologize Well,' from Harry's book. They discuss the importance of making heartfelt apologies without justifications or excuses. By sharing personal experiences and practical insights, they highlight the key elements of a genuine apology — acknowledging the hurt caused and expressing honest regret. Listeners are encouraged to practice and refine their apologizing skills to foster more meaningful and respectful relationships.

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Links & Resources

Be the Sun, Not the Salt - book

To explore the book, or for more episodes, information, tips and tools to live a more heliotropic life, visit us at bethesunnotthesalt.com and find us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok.

Transcript

Harry Cohen: Welcome to the be the sun, not the salt podcast. My name is Dr. Harry Cohen. I'm the author of be the sun, not the salt. I'm joined by my co host chief super spreader and all things be the sun, not the salt Connie Fontaine. And we're going to get into the chapters of be the sun, not the salt more deeply.

Connie Fontaine: And we're enjoying these episodes for lots of reasons for the information and ideas we're bringing to you, but definitely for ourselves. And this is one that I have to practice that I need some help with. So we've got to talk about this one today. Chapter seven, apologize well. I would have told you before we started working together on this book, we've known each other a million years, but I was really good at this and I'm so not, um, and I think the reason I'm not, because I'm, I always do it with good intent.

So if I'm doing something, it's with, I very, I can't even think of a time that I was not had malintent and [00:01:00] apologizing. And yet I, um, I know that it necessarily, it doesn't always ring true. So let's, I want to dig into this one. 

Harry Cohen: what do you mean? It doesn't ring true? 

Connie Fontaine: So, um, if, for instance, if I apologize to one of my adult children and I say, I'm really sorry I upset you.

Um, not that I've ever done this before, but I'm really sorry I upset you, but you need to understand that I was trying to explain how an adult, you know, in the work world but, you know. So that, you know, you can just hear it. That didn't, I was just trying to explain my own behavior versus apologizing for how it made somebody feel.

Oops.

Harry Cohen: the point you got is wait a minute. way to do it properly is. apologize for whatever and not do the explanation of, but I was just trying to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's the insight for you. That's 

Connie Fontaine: yeah. 

Harry Cohen: hard for you.

Connie Fontaine: The, but 

Harry Cohen: great. 

Connie Fontaine: yeah, so I just say it to myself now. So it just, yeah, I have to just, you know, I, I apologize. I can see that you're hurt.

I apologize.

Harry Cohen: that the beauty of [00:02:00] that mic drop moment is I apologize. I can see they're hurt and and 

Connie Fontaine: Can you see my lips moving like, cause I can still like, that's what I want to do. I would say, but I didn't mean to, like, I'm this really nice person and I was really just trying to be helpful.

Harry Cohen: yeah, exactly. I love the skill of this. I have learned it, too. It is still difficult for me to just plain apologize for whatever reason I think I'm right. 

Connie Fontaine: huh. That's

Harry Cohen: that I'm uncomfortable admitting I was wrong and I just gotta get over it and say I am sorry. Period. try not to do it again. 

Connie Fontaine: right. Mm

Harry Cohen: That what I love about this idea is it's not enough to just say, I'm sorry and mean it, which is fantastic. 

Connie Fontaine: Mm hmm.

Harry Cohen: is imagine, I'm not going to do it again. Now, if you can't promise that, I always say, [00:03:00] I'm going to do my best not to. Let it happen again or allow me to happen again, but chances are it will happen again. So that's the truth Nice

Connie Fontaine: like I've got all the right answers. And to your point, the, this, the gross part of it is, is it is because I think I'm right. That's why I'm trying to explain myself. So, um, again, not with any purposeful intent.

So I think I'm getting better at that. Um, and I liked that last part you added because it is, I do try, I care, I care. I don't want someone to feel badly about that. So that is, that's the part that I'll, I'll get a little bit better at saying, and I will do my best. And I appreciate what I have added lately, which he appreciated was I, um, I appreciate you telling me how I made you feel. I appreciate that. And I think that alone was like, Oh, you're not gonna defend yourself for change. So, getting better.

Harry Cohen: the reason it's so helpful for people to learn And practice how to [00:04:00] apologize well, is not apologizing well, is salt on roots. It's gross. When you get the fake apology, the apology, that isn't an apology, the, I'm sorry, you feel that way. That's not an apology for whatever I did. I'm sorry. 

Connie Fontaine: Not a good apology.

Harry Cohen: Um, 

Connie Fontaine: I'm sorry, but sorry, but

Harry Cohen: but I, I guess I'm sorry. Or one that I stopped doing, which is when you hear a fake apology and a lot of words. And somewhere in there is a fake apology. I used to do this. So what are you apologizing for to force them to admit that they ain't apologizing for anything, you know, rub their nose in the fact that they're not apologizing, which is basically picking a fight.

Connie Fontaine: right. What's the right way? Or is there a right way to call out someone who's not apologizing? Well,

Harry Cohen: it depends on the relationship. You know what I mean? Like you, you can have a vendor who gave you some something terrible and they fake apologize. And you go, there's no point . I'm not 

Connie Fontaine: not going there. Yeah,

Harry Cohen: I don't need to [00:05:00] give 'em a teaching. If it's an intimate and it's a fake apology, you have a choice to go.

Like, I didn't think you were apologizing, but I appreciate the fact that you tried. That's kind of toxic.

Connie Fontaine: I didn't like that. Don't use that one on me.

Harry Cohen: Exactly. I do. I do want people to be aware of how 

Connie Fontaine: I agree. 

Harry Cohen: the fake 

Connie Fontaine: Right.

Harry Cohen: lots of ways,

including walk away know that they're not good at it. And you are, you don't have to rub their nose in the fact that they didn't apologize.

Connie Fontaine: And so what do you think? So let's call it an intimate because I would say this is where a lot of that happens is at home. And you say, do you say, I don't think that didn't make me feel any better.

Harry Cohen: I love it.

Connie Fontaine: Okay. I 

Harry Cohen: my counsel

for an intimate. not an apology. It's a fake apology. I guess I guess I'm sorry, but whatever it is, I'd go there. I'd say, don't want to be salt on your roots and I'm not trying to pick a fight. do [00:06:00] want to honor your intention to apologize to me. Unfortunately, I didn't hear an apology. 

Connie Fontaine: heard an excuse.

Harry Cohen: justification for what you did, maybe I'm wrong. If there was an apology and you are apologizing, I really appreciate it. You give him a chance 

Connie Fontaine: Right. 

Harry Cohen: again without saying

you're, you know, you're, you're being an idiot. 

Connie Fontaine: I like that one. I could use that. 

Harry Cohen: try. 

Connie Fontaine: I mean, it sounds so respectful. I don't, I wonder if I can pull that one out in the moment, but

Harry Cohen: the 

Connie Fontaine: I want

Harry Cohen: sounds

Connie Fontaine: you.

Harry Cohen: it is respectful.

Connie Fontaine: like to honor the fact that you just blasted me. Yeah.

Harry Cohen: Well, remember, they don't know how they don't know that they just gave the fake apology, having compassion for them and trying to bring out their best. let's try and do it. This is an intimate remember. So you gotta really lean in with, you know, all your best self ready. remember, I love this phrase tested out in the laboratory of your own experience. All [00:07:00] of this material is real for you, for me. So for anyone's listening, yeah. Hey, test it out. See if you can get better at apologizing. And whatever you do, do more of it. Do more of what works. Don't, don't do anything that doesn't work. Do the stuff that does 

Connie Fontaine: Right. 

Harry Cohen: see what 

Connie Fontaine: And then model it. I mean, if you're modeling it the way you just talked about it with somebody who hasn't quite apologized well to you, it's going to impact the way, not just they interact back, but also going to interact, make a difference in how you're feeling. So you said it has to be genuine apology and expressing honest regret.

Like those are kind of the two elements of that apology and making it real,

Harry Cohen: The essence is, listen, I feel bad that I did something that made you feel bad. So all of that, I did something. I feel bad that it made you feel bad. They're all kind of simple, 

Connie Fontaine: right?

Harry Cohen: I didn't mean it. I was just trying to help 

Connie Fontaine: Right. Just put a period at the end of that.

Harry Cohen: [00:08:00] exactly. 

Connie Fontaine: I love that. Well, hopefully this is a good, so now I've learned something. Well, actually I've learned it already. I just got to keep practicing it. and hopefully this is a good tip for everyone when you're thinking about this next time you deserve an apology or you need to apologize to somebody else.

If you think this is, I don't know if I'd share this with somebody who's maybe not apologizing well, that might be a little passive aggressive, but maybe pass this along to somebody who you'd love to learn this with and obviously follow the podcast. We'll make sure that we update everybody every time we drop a new episode.

So thanks for listening.