#30 Gentle Nudge: Win-Win Always Wins

In this episode of the 'Be the Sun, Not the Salt' podcast, hosts Dr. Harry Cohen and Connie Fontaine delve into Chapter 9, 'Win Win Always Wins,' from Harry's book. We discuss how to keep a win-win mindset in various scenarios, and the importance of ensuring positive outcomes for all parties involved. Through real-life examples and insights, we’ll dig into how this approach can lead to more harmonious and effective interactions. By integrating this mindset into our daily lives, we can foster fairness and mutual satisfaction in all kinds of relationships.

Links & Resources

Be the Sun, Not the Salt - book

To explore the book, or for more episodes, information, tips and tools to live a more heliotropic life, visit us at bethesunnotthesalt.com and find us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok.

Transcript

Harry Cohen: Welcome to the, be the sun, not the self podcast. I'm Dr. Harry Cohn, the author of Be the Sun, Not the Salt. I'm joined by my co host, chief super spreader in all things Be the Sun, Not the Salt, Connie Fontaine. We're going to dig into the chapters. And I can't remember which chapter we're doing today. Connie, take it away.

Connie Fontaine: We are having fun and we're digging into it. We have made it to chapter nine. Win win always wins. And one that sounds like an overplayed euphemism from way back when, but it's one that when we dig into it, I think it, people get a big benefit out of this. I know I do every day.

Harry Cohen: The way I think about this, I had a great example of this this morning. I called a friend about a post that I had done on LinkedIn about Be the Sun, Not the Salt. And he shared a great [00:01:00] story about win win. And I said, Oh, I mean, it's right. It's a classic win win mindset and behavior. He wrote a nine page letter. To his boss about something or other that was very, very loaded. And then he read the letter and he, and he didn't send it and he didn't send it because he said to himself, this is not going to make him feel good. This is not going to be win win for both of us. He, he allowed the. articulation in the letter to, to remind him, this is not going to be a good outcome. And he changed it. He had a great conversation with his boss, but not sending that letter because it wasn't going to be win win was so, so practical. Thinking like that, and then behaving in that way is just a beautiful reminder that To let's make sure that both of us come out of [00:02:00] this feeling good.

Connie Fontaine: I think we, you know, I think in from a work standpoint and over my career, I always thought of win wins when I was going in to work with a dealer or to sell something to somebody. And it was, you knew from a negotiation standpoint, you could only go in successfully if you were going to do it as a win win.

But what I learned, I think in we, you and I had an example just a couple of years ago where I had to meet with somebody I really didn't like. Um, and so I immediately have this tendency to say, well, you know, but I, I'm right, I'm going to pitch this thing. I'm going to sell it through. It's gonna be fine.

And in reality, I think taking a win win approach for me meant how is this person going to feel good at the end to make me right? Like, this is just, he doesn't want me to get there. And I thinking about it from his perspective and what he needed out of that And how I wanted him to feel at the end of that meeting transaction, whatever you want to call it.

Um, it totally changed the game because I went in with a different perspective. I went in and already [00:03:00] feeling good about it because I found a win. I, he was going to feel good, too. Instead of feeling like, oh, here we go. It's going to be abrasive. So I think thinking about it, it's not always doesn't have to be a serious negotiation to make a win win important.

Harry Cohen: So I have no idea who you're referring to, and I don't want to know. I mean, maybe afterwards I'll ask you, but I love the fact that you were able to have a mindset, which is, I don't like this guy and I'm going to go into this interaction and see if I can find a way for both of us to come out feeling like we won. Um, you, you still not like the guy?

Connie Fontaine: Um, You know what? I think that helped with that, too, because he reacted differently to me because he felt good at the end of it, too. And you're right. What it did is it's created a comfort level. So even though there might be a little bit of a rub, um, still, I know I can have a great conversation with this person.

And I know that, you know, I don't take it as personally, which was causing my reaction. So,

Harry Cohen: I like this mindset. You know, [00:04:00] Steven Covey literally brought it to the world with, 

um, his seven habits

of highly effective people. One of those habits is be in thinking operate from a win win mentality, but it's not just a phrase. It's a real. Prism through which you can look at the world and say, hold on a second. This does not feel right for me or it doesn't feel right for you. Let's see if we can figure out a way for both of us to come out with the desired outcome. This really brilliant psychiatrist, Harvard psychiatrist, Susan David, she just recently posted. Um, how do you have a difficult conversation? Ask yourself three questions.

One of the questions that I remember cause I commented on it was how Do I want this conversation to end such that both of us will feel good when it ends? 

that's when, when that's literally 

what it 

Connie Fontaine: that this morning. Yeah.

Harry Cohen: which is such a great way. You know, like, hold on a second. This is not going to [00:05:00] be easy, but if I go in with, I want him or her to feel good and I want to feel good, how do I get there and stating it out loud might be a very clever, intelligent way.

Listen, I don't know how we're going to get there, but I want both of us to feel good after this. Let's head in there, you know,

Connie Fontaine: Yeah, that might be the way it depends on the situation for sure. I mean, there's this idea about fairness, which, you know, I think sometimes as a parent, you think, oh, let's not talk about what's fair and what's not. Yeah, of course she got more chocolate milk, whatever. But, but that is, that is what the crux of this is, is to be, make both parties feel like they got something they needed or that it got, we both got something and we all feel good leaving.

And I think, so fairness is an easy way to describe it. You want people to think that the relationship and the conversation was fair.

Harry Cohen: I love it because it's simple and it has me continues to help me. And I want to continue to look at the world through that prism so that every conversation I'm having is not, doesn't feel like a rip [00:06:00] off on either way.

Connie Fontaine: Yeah, the, you know, in the chapter, I think the way that we pulled this quote out that it's very visual and some metaphor that, that we use always about plants and living things. But this is the, when one plant blocks another from the sun, the plant in the shadow does not grow as well. If at all, who wants to be felt like they're being put in the shadow, who wants to feel like, again, it's not fair, you're overpowering, you're bullying any of that.

Kind of feeling. And that's why win win always wins. Hopefully you got something out of this today. I would love for you to share this with somebody who might need a little prod along to be a win win. Um, when you're like, when you're not a lion's fan, that's a good one. I just got a little comment in the chat.

Like when you're not a lion's fan, it's always a win win when you're a lion's fan. You just, it's, you just had to wait a lot of years. So we won't let Harry comment on that. We'll wrap this one up. Please post, please comment, please follow us. And thanks for listening.

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