#33 Gentle Nudge: Hold the Salt

In this episode of the 'Be the Sun, Not the Salt' podcast, hosts Dr. Harry Cohen and Connie Fontaine explore the key concepts of Chapter 12, 'Hold the Salt,' from Harry's book. We’ll discuss the metaphorical significance of salt and how toxic behaviors can negatively impact others. We know that by refraining from expressing negative emotions and behaviors, we create a more positive and supportive environment. Here we’ll provide practical insights and real-life examples to illustrate the profound effect of avoiding 'salting the roots' of others.

Links & Resources

Be the Sun, Not the Salt - book

To explore the book, or for more episodes, information, tips and tools to live a more heliotropic life, visit us at bethesunnotthesalt.com and find us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok.

Transcript

Harry Cohen: Welcome to be the sun, not the salt, our podcast on how we can help each other in the world, be our best selves more often. I'm Dr. Harry Cohn, author of be the sun, not the salt. I'm joined by my cohost, Connie Fontaine, chief super spreader and all things be the sun, not the salt. Connie, take it away.

Connie Fontaine: You made a great point. This is for all of us. I think that's one of the things this isn't, we don't do this just for you, for listeners, for people. We do this for us and us includes all of us. And wouldn't it be great to live in a world where we all cared about chapter 12, hold the salt. And I, what I want to get into is all the things.

This is like one of our lofty chapters to me, because there's so, it's so important for people to understand when we talk about salt on the roots of people, how toxic. That can be

Harry Cohen: And that can be [00:01:00] is. 

Connie Fontaine: you're right.

Harry Cohen: And, and this insight is really important, especially for people who think salt of the earth. It's what we're talking about. We're not talking 

Connie Fontaine: Yeah. salt of the earth. Good. We get that. 

Harry Cohen: Salt of the earth. is fantastic. What about salt as a spice? Isn't salt a 

delicious spice? Yes, it is. It's a very important spice.

We're not talking about salt as a spice. We are talking about salt as a metaphor for what it does to the roots of a plant. Behaviors that we engage in that make other people de energized, feel bad. Perform poorly, do bad things because we're being rude, disrespectful and unkind to them. So hold the salt is refraining from making other people feel bad. That's it. And we can do it [00:02:00] in the tiniest ways, not can do it. We do do it in the tiniest ways. I can salt your roots without saying a word. I can roll my eyes. I can harumph. I can give a face of disrespect. All of which you're salting roots. This is victory. If you refrain from saying the nasty thing that you're thinking, that's 

great. Well, what if you're processing a lot of negative emotions? Fantastic. This is not toxic positivity. This is,

I'm refraining from saying the thing that I'm feeling in the moment. Well, aren't I supposed to be authentic? Yes. Does that mean you authentically express every negative emotion that you're feeling?

No. 

Connie Fontaine: And that's why children pick up on this concept so easily, this metaphor, you could, you could riff on this metaphor forever, because if you think about wilting, um, like, I think on the cover of the book, for instance, for anyone who's watching, if you're just listening, I [00:03:00] apologize, but the cover of the book has a tree, it shows that half the tree is alive and thriving and green, and the other half is dying, and it's because salt is being poured on its root.

And I think for us as humans, who wants to make somebody feel like they're wilting? Who, I mean, who would ever want to kill off the joy and the, I mean, that's what, what it's what we mean by hold the salt.

Harry Cohen: And for me, the insight, which I think is life changing, literally life changing drum roll, you can hold the salt refrain from salting other people's roots. And when you're doing that, it is wonderful. Just wonderful. Now, unfortunately the UPS driver is here and I'm afraid my dog might 

Connie Fontaine: That's okay. if my dog barks. So YOLO is his dog. You only live once, but that's okay. She makes herself known often.

Harry Cohen: So the insight of, you can withhold salt, which is victory in itself, literally. The other insight [00:04:00] is, salt is really bad for everybody. Expressing negativity is worse than expressing positivity. Well, aren't they equal? No, it's worse. 

And that 

Connie Fontaine: worst. I mean, scientifically five times more

impactful.

Harry Cohen: And if

you realize that you go, Oh my God, you mean, so not saying the nasty snarky thing is really, really good. You betcha. 

Connie Fontaine: You mean dig into the five times. So, cause for me, as I think about somebody who says, well, yeah, but I'm usually really good. So I snapped in a meeting, no big deal. No, it's a big deal. It's a big deal. So four or five times, you're a good guy. You're the leader that everybody leans towards. You come in and you, you lay it down really nasty.

One day you just eliminate all that good love that you spread. Um, it does make a difference

Harry Cohen: this research was first

discovered in marriages where they would watch people interact with one another. And they would count the number of positive and negative comments that [00:05:00] people would make spouses. And when the ratio was some 4. 7 to one, whatever it is, you could predict how well the couple would do versus when the ratio of negative comments to positive comments was Too low.

It was too high. They would get divorced. That's the power of the toxicity of our negative salty behavior. This is the big takeaway. You mean the little tiny little nasty, sarcastic comment that I said once I said one sarcastic comment all week. Yeah, it's real bad. 

Connie Fontaine: Yep. Well, and there's a good example because in an intimate relationship, often it's tit for tat. So one person's negative. So the other person is snarky back. Um, and then it just becomes this, you know, road that you just continue to follow. And salt is salt. And I mean, I think that's one of those things you need to learn to walk away, process it in a different way.

It's never okay to throw the salt back. And I think, don't you hear that all the time? Well, well, [00:06:00] but in this case, that guy, he deserved my salt.

Harry Cohen: never, never. We want to have such a high standard. 

This is the big insight

that I want to have such a high standard for myself that I don't allow one molecule of salty behavior to be expressed externally. Now that's a high standard. Oh, come on. Everybody loses it sometimes.

Okay. I'd like to lose it like hardly ever, never. 

Connie Fontaine: Well, and part of why you put that bar up though is because it doesn't make you feel better in the end. You might feel like you get this little satisfaction, but in the end you just now did something that you shouldn't feel great,

Harry Cohen: Exactly, which is not to judge yourself, not to beat yourself 

up, just do the next right thing. If

I'm, as I always say, if I'm 90 out of 100, no salty comments, but I make that one salty comment. I got work to do, which is great. It's a noble, it's a noble pursuit, but for anyone who's listening, please know that you can be victorious in the [00:07:00] moment you say, I'm not going to say it, even though I'm thinking it good.

Connie Fontaine: Salt is toxic for sure. Um, it's never okay to be the salt. I mean, these are kind of some of the main points. I think for, for people who struggle with, you know, anxiety, depression, or just like a bad day, sometimes what you say is, That's okay. You don't have to be the sun. Just don't be the salt.

Harry Cohen: And one way to express that is to say out loud, I'm feeling really fill in the blank, anxious, sad, confused. Difficult, overwhelming, whatever you're feeling, which does not mean that I'm going to lay that on anyone else. Please, if you wouldn't mind giving me some space. I'm going through a difficult time. I hope you can understand that.

Connie Fontaine: That's a really good point. You name it because then it gets it out there. I mean, you guys have been, you've had to be patient with me. Sometimes I had tough morning, tough [00:08:00] situation I was dealing with and you guys just knew I named it and you were like, you know what? I need to just give you some space.

Why don't you just go walk away, handle that thing, um, and then come back. And it was it had made such a difference because I knew I was exuding something. I knew I felt it. Um, and I think just naming it allowed me to move on and not feel like people are imposing on my time. So hold the salt. I think one of the ones that You say it's, you know, it's a little easier to talk about being the son a lot harder for people to want to talk about Hold the salt.

I think now after today people know why we talk about that You can't have one without the other need to talk about it because it's the one that we lean to Sometimes when we're in great distress and we're saying it's never okay, although we'll talk in a chapter about Doing the next right thing.

Cause of course you will, you will dump salt, unintentionally or intentionally. And there are ways to overcome that as well. So, I'd say for anyone that you want to share this with easy to do, please follow us and thank you for listening Hold the salt [00:09:00] today.