#53 Our Origin Story: "Be the Sun, Not the Salt"

Ever wonder how Be the Sun, Not the Salt came to life? In this special origin story episode, Dr. Harry Cohen and Connie Fontaine pull back the curtain on the journey from a single TED Talk to a bestselling book and a podcast that’s sparking positive change around the world.

What’s the story behind the sun and the salt?

• Harry shares how the phrase “lead people with an afterglow, not an aftertaste—be the sun, not the salt” first landed, and why it stuck with so many.  
• Forget the “aha!” moment—this book grew out of Harry’s desire to leave behind a collection of simple, science-based, sticky reminders that anyone could use to live and lead better.  
• Connie reveals how their paths crossed, why she instantly saw “billion dollar brand” potential, and how her marketing mind helped Harry’s vision become a movement.  
• Discover the intentional choice behind short chapters, memorable phrases, and a focus on practical wisdom you’ll actually remember (and use).  
• Harry and Connie reflect on why their different backgrounds—psychology and marketing, science and storytelling, life experience and curiosity—make the message more relatable, real, and fun for everyone.

You’ll hear the real, sometimes messy, always honest conversations that shaped the book and podcast. From debates about the title, to the moments they almost lost their cool (and how they turned it around), this episode is packed with behind-the-scenes insights and a whole lot of heart.

Why listen?  

If you’ve ever wanted to know what “heliotropic living” really means, why “not the salt” is just as important as “be the sun,” or how two friends turned a simple idea into a global movement—this is your invitation to join the story.

To explore the book, or for more episodes, information, tips and tools to live a more heliotropic life, visit us at bethesunnotthesalt.com and find us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok.

Transcript

Connie Fontaine: [00:00:00] Hello. Welcome to the Be the Sun, not the Salt podcast. I'm Connie Fontaine, joined by my friend Dr. Harry Cohen.

Dr. Harry Cohen: So this podcast is different than anything we've ever done, it is. The origin story. How did we come together to do this? Why did I write this book? Why are we doing this podcast? And a whole lot of other questions that get asked and thought it would be a good idea to share. Well, here's how we all, here's how this came about.

Connie Fontaine: Yeah, and I think it's, some people are surprised. I think there's this general understanding that, oh, Harry, you must have had this aha moment, this magical experience that you said, aha, I'm gonna write this book.

And that's not really the way it came about. So we think that's the, maybe the best place to start is how did the book come about?

Dr. Harry Cohen: [00:01:00] So I. I did this TED Talk in 2015 and ended the TED Talk with lead people with an afterglow, not an aftertaste. Be the sun, not the salt. I had no idea that I would write a book at that moment, no idea. So two years after that TED Talk, I started to think about how I could leave the world something valuable.

My kids could, could have the lessons of my life in a compendium of something that would be a timeless. And you always tease me about this, a

Connie Fontaine: A timeless, a timeless toilet read.

Dr. Harry Cohen: that and you say don't, don't don't say that. 

Connie Fontaine: Okay. Well, I've said it, I've told the world. I know. Can you, are you self-reflecting on life and longevity? Yes. Because that's, I think that's really what you just said, is you started to think, Hmm, I need to leave something behind.

Dr. Harry Cohen: And if I'm gonna leave something behind, what would it [00:02:00] be? Like a collection of all of like, here's the, the lessons of my life in one little pile. And I started writing down, I. What I thought would be okay. That's one turn of page. Hmm. That's, Ooh, I, Ooh, that's one turn of page. That, and then I collected 

Connie Fontaine: 30 

Dr. Harry Cohen: in the idea that 30 sounds like a good number. 30 days of a month. They could be reminders. You know, I don't wanna write a hundred, there's more than 10. Okay. So then I wrote this thing and then, and 

Connie Fontaine: this is where could I, could I stop you on that of, 'cause I want people to know, 'cause I, I think that also says something about you. The simple, The thought that they needed to be simple. Little reminders is something that I feel like I've known you for, for, however, I don't even like to say 35 years, 30, whatever it's been.

Um, the, the, I think what you, what differentiates this book, your story, your coaching style, is making [00:03:00] something that's science-based, something that's a fact into something simple that's catchy, memorable, and quite frankly, more important, valuable. It's not something that. Isn't important. You don't waste your time with that.

So I think that's what got you to that simple little, you know, these are gonna be short chapters, it's gonna be a little book.

Dr. Harry Cohen: and I know that I read stuff and can't remember anything, and so less is always more. And if I can say more by saying less, I've done some good. And that continual challenge is. I'm never done with that. This is, this podcast is, is an, is an extension of that. I wanna try, try and say more by saying less.

So let me just get to how I met Connie and how I brought Connie into this. Now I don't remember exactly Connie, you'll have to remind me. I remember the moment, um, where I was giving a talk at NADA, for a whole group of people, and you came up to me afterwards and I was talking about [00:04:00] Heliotropic leadership and.

You said this is a billion dollar brand. You said it with such clarity and confidence and sort of like, oh my God, this, the world needs to know. And I remember going, 

Connie Fontaine: yeah, I think 

Dr. Harry Cohen: it's good. Um, but I don't know if it's a 

Connie Fontaine: billion dollar brand, 

Dr. Harry Cohen: but I love the way you articulated that in your marketing. Mind expertise I was attracted to, but let me just tell the world why I said, I want you in on this. And I paid You 

Connie Fontaine: Mm-hmm. You did. Outta your own pocket. Outta 

Dr. Harry Cohen: my own pocket big dollars because 

Connie Fontaine: have retired from 

Dr. Harry Cohen: Ford and you were making big dollars. And I, I said, I'll pay you that. I want you to help me package it. Market, market,

Connie Fontaine: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Harry Cohen: You know, the metaphor for me was it took 10 years for people to accept sliced bread. Okay.

Package this, help me 

Connie Fontaine: make this 

Dr. Harry Cohen: more appealing to the world, um, so [00:05:00] that more people can get it 

Connie Fontaine: the right 

Dr. Harry Cohen: bread metaphor. And I remember that moment. Um, and then I took the, the raw material and I had lots of people help me with. With each chapter getting feedback, and then I gave it to you and you'd give it to a whole team of people who would clean it up and edit it and send it back to me.

And I'd say, yeah, yeah. Those are not my words. That's not how 

Connie Fontaine: I would say Yeah, really, IM really important for people to know. This is several years ago. Yeah. So the fact that our stories are a little different is really interesting to me. But again, it's several years ago.

Um, I remember, so this is the, the real first time I heard you say, because my favorite is leave them with an afterglow, not an and then be the sun, not the salt, just as the, you know, that's the exclamation point at the end.

But it was at, well, I was consulting. Mm-hmm. And I, it was at that forum with four direct that you spoke.

Oh. and you were sitting next to me in the front row 'cause we had said hi. Oh my gosh. So good to see you. And we were sitting and I sat [00:06:00] and when you, when you said those words at the end, I thought this, this spoke to me so clearly because it's why I loved working for certain people and with certain people.

It helped me kind of understand it with those behaviors. It's that the positive energizers in my life that make my life better. And I remember saying that should be on t-shirts all over the world. And we've had subsequent conversations where we've talked about billion dollar brand, and that's what we want this to Not because we wanna make a billion dollars, but because we wanna share this with so many 

Dr. Harry Cohen: And so I remember 

Connie Fontaine: that Mm-hmm. but I thought 

Dr. Harry Cohen: it was at NADA,

Connie Fontaine: went to, I went with you to NADA. That's right. That's right. Yeah.

Dr. Harry Cohen: But why I wanted you on this podcast to host this with me, certainly I could have done this podcast without you. And why I wanted you on this podcast is several reasons. I don't know if I've ever told you this, but it is because of who you are, but also all that you've done in your life as both a [00:07:00] marketer and as a wife.

A mother, a friend, and now a grandmother, a woman. You bring a perspective, uh, a woman of a certain age, we can't say.

Connie Fontaine: Oh, sure we can, 

Harry Cohen: you're mature.

Connie Fontaine: I'm 60, I'm fine with that.

Dr. Harry Cohen: Yeah, you're young. And 

Connie Fontaine: that being 

Dr. Harry Cohen: all of those perspectives, um, I think add a dimension that I can never bring. And I wanted that perspective in this messaging to the world.

So you work at being a gooder person and you're all of those things. So I wanted you to make me and it, and this better. So that it's more, approachable for more people.

Connie Fontaine: I love that. I mean, and I so much, first of all, I love that message and Thank you. I also, as a partnership, we bring so many different things, and yet both of us have this curiosity and desire to be better.

Mm-hmm. Our best self, a little bit better [00:08:00] every day. Um, willing to be vulnerable and talk about our strengths, our weaknesses, the things that we're challenged by, and that's what makes it fun. 

Dr. Harry Cohen: And, and real and ever new. How do we, how do we explain this more better? How do we get this messaging to more people more effectively with a sticky, useful, I. Change your life message. You and I were talking earlier about reviewing all the podcasts that we've done. We've done 50 of them. And look and thinking about all the interviews that we've done without looking back or listening to them, we were talking about, well, which, what do you, what's the lesson you remember from that one?

And we were rattling off one sentence or one phrase, ideas. And that's what I want this whole thing to be like. Life-changing ideas and sentences that, oh.

Oh, that's all I need to know. Boom. 

Connie Fontaine: And then, yep. And you, you know, you were talking about the editing process, which was really interesting and, and I love looking back at some of the historical [00:09:00] documents and things that we did to get to where we got to.

But one of the things that was a pivotal moment for us, and I'm sure you, you will remember this in context at least, was there was a lot of discussion around, isn't the title too long? The website URL will be too long. It's too long for people to recall “be the sun, not the salt.” Mm-hmm. And you were very steadfast in this cannot be be the sun without “not the salt.”

It's not as meaningful. And I think we've been very, I. Um, resolute in making sure that our work for ourselves and for our listeners and for our followers is very much to both. It's e Sometimes it's easier to be the sun than to fight being the salt.

Dr. Harry Cohen: And I'll tell you one of the greatest lessons that I still continue to learn and learn to this day. It It is not enough to be the sun, not being the salt is equal or more important than being the sun. That in those moments to moments [00:10:00] earlier during this recording, I was getting really crusty and frustrated because we couldn't get the, the, the 

Connie Fontaine: recording board Technology. And you said, Are you said, yes. 

Dr. Harry Cohen: I said, I've been sitting here for half an hour. And you said, 

Connie Fontaine: well, we all have. 

Dr. Harry Cohen: And 

Connie Fontaine: to that yes. 

Dr. Harry Cohen: And so let's, let's emotionally regulate, let's turn it up and let's do the next right thing and let's make something good out of this. I mean, I love this.

I never gets get tired of talking about it and finding better ways to talk about it so that it goes in and sticks for more people myself mostly.

Connie Fontaine: I agree. I agree. And I think we just saw a note that from a, a colleague this morning that came to all of us saying, you know, thank you for doing what you do. And he was very specific about some of the things that have spoken to him in the podcast.

And I, it made a big difference to me because we often are talking about how we are changing and we don't always hear from listeners. We do. We hear, we get some [00:11:00] great stories, but every morning, every time we get one, it's uplifting for us, knowing that we're doing something that's making an impact. 

Dr. Harry Cohen: All we wanna do is make a positive impact. Leave people with that afterglow, not an aftertaste. I'm always concerned about talking too much. So let me ask you, have we said everything we need to say or should we say some more? I.

Connie Fontaine: I think we've done it justice. It was a great, it's been a great journey. Um, we've got 55, 50 8,000 books out in the world.

Mm-hmm. We've got a podcast that people are listening to and sharing and getting excited about, and more importantly, I am a better person than when I started this journey. And I think you would say the same.

Dr. Harry Cohen: Not only that, I, I I, I was just giving a talk this past week and, and I just learned this new, this new idea, which is when someone says, I love that book, great. Give it to somebody else. I, mean, don't keep it. Go get your own, give it to somebody else. And know, there's no downside.[00:12:00] 

Connie Fontaine: So in that vein, please share this podcast, share it with family, friends, and anyone that you think would love this message. It's be the sun, not the salt.com. Have a great day. Thanks for listening.