Google Analytics: How to Know What’s Working with Philippa Gamse | Ep. 52

Is your website working for you, or against you? If you’re feeling overwhelmed by website jargon and SEO, you’re not alone. 

Allison Lane joined with Philippa Gamse, a digital marketing and analytics expert, to share the biggest mistakes authors make with their websites and how to fix them. You’ll learn how to turn your website into a powerful tool that attracts readers, grows your platform, and sells more books, all without becoming a tech expert. 

Tune in now to make your website work smarter, not harder.

What You’ll Learn:

• The #1 mistake authors make with their websites (and how to fix it).
• How to track and understand your website analytics without feeling overwhelmed.
• The simple tweaks that can turn website visitors into book buyers.

Resources Mentioned:

• Connect with Philippa Gamse: https://websitesthatwin.com/offer/ 
• Google Search Console: https://analytics.google.com
• Get Allison’s free Essential Author Bio Package + free guide + video training: lanelit.com/package
• Book Reco: Nexus: A Brief History of Information Networks from the Stone Age to AI by Yuval Noah Harari: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9780593734223 

Timestamps:

• [02:10] The website mistake most authors don’t realize they’re making
• [10:30] Why analytics matter (and how to track what works)
• [18:45] Quick website fixes that make a big impact

Enjoyed this episode? Take a moment to rate and review The Author’s Edge. Your support helps us bring more expert insights to help you grow your author career. And don’t forget to share this episode with a fellow author who needs website help.

Tune in now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh0UKrFLIBs

Rate, Review, & Follow The Author’s Edge

“So incredibly helpful!” >>> If that sounds like you, I’d be so grateful if you’d rate and review the show! Your support helps more authors build their brands, reach their audiences, and launch their books successfully.

Here’s how:

• Click here, scroll to the bottom, and tap to rate with five stars.
• Select “Write a Review” and tell me what you loved most about the episode!

And don’t forget to follow the podcast if you haven’t already. I’m sharing bonus episodes packed with insider tips, and I’d hate for you to miss out. Hit that follow button now.

LinkedIn @allisonlanelit
YouTube @allisonlanelit
Facebook @allisonlanelit
Instagram @allisonlanelit

🔔 Subscribe or Follow for more tips and insights on publishing and marketing
👍 Like, comment, and share this video if you found it helpful!

Transcript

Philippa 0:00

There's just so many times where we put up a website and then we watch how people actually use it, and then they do things that surprise us. People always up doing things that surprise me. You just never quite know. But the thing about the analytics, again is that if you're tracking what's going on, you you can see when they start doing things that surprise you, and then you can act on that.

Allison 0:43

Welcome back to the Author's Edge. I am your host, Allison Lane, and I'm here to make your journey as an author easier and smoother and more exciting and fun because you shouldn't have to become an expert in this too. Nobody has time to become an expert in all the things, and that's why I am here. I'm a lifetime publicist and marketer, turned book coach or marketing strategist or publishing expert. Nobody cares what my title is. What they do care about, and what you care about is what can you get from listening to this. So, thank you for showing up because you know that you can depend on me to bring you experts who know their poo and are going to deliver the goods for you. So, today, Philippa Gamse is here to talk to us about websites. She's a digital marketer and an analytics expert, which just the term analytics gives me the full body hives. But she gave me some advice throughout this podcast that I'm gonna put into action, and I want you to hold me to it. She has consulted with hundreds of clients and worked on websites that have generated hundreds of millions of dollars. So, for authors, understanding your website and your website performance can feel overwhelming. I felt like just the word analytics makes my chest tighten, but Philippa helped me see that there are a few actions that I can take that will cut through the noise and help me focus on what truly matters. And I think you're gonna find the same. So, today we're diving into how to identify what works on your website and uncover hidden opportunities to make your website and your investment of time and money in your site, work better for you. And make sure that your site is equipped to serve the people you're helping and to sell more books. So, let's get into it. Philippa, thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to pummel you with questions because we need your input and guidance. But also as I was reading through and researching all of your brilliance before our talk and pouring through your website, I was like, oh, I don't do that. I know I've been told about Google Search Console, but I don't know what it is. And then, and you said let me take a look at your site. So, I have to admit that everything I know being tech, not tech phobic, but I would say, I've have learned helplessness about technology because I was in corporate settings for so long, and if you needed a wire plugged in, you called, Yes the woman who did that. And if you needed a new screen, you didn't have to determine what that was. And if I needed a website built, I would almost just think it and it would happen because I ran marketing and pr so we need a new site or we need new language, and it would just poof happen now five years into serving people who want to get book deals and build their visibility and grow their career. I am the queen of my website. But only because people like you pointed out, wow, you're not, you're not using your page descriptions. Do you even know what those are? Now, I am, but I think that a lot of people don't know what they don't know. And they feel bad about it, but I don't feel bad about not knowing something because you don't know until someone tells you. So, for all you folks out there who are thinking, I don't know how do I get to a page description or what's really annoying is when people use jargon terms like your H one and H two. People don't know what that is unless you tell them.

Philippa 5:16

right.

Allison 5:17

My H one and H two, they weren't even set up right. But now they are. Now that I made myself vulnerable, what is a common mistake people making when they're trying to set up a functional website they can grow with?

Philippa 5:34

Just clear up a couple of things.

Allison 5:36

Okay.

Philippa 5:36

So firstly you talked about Google search. So Google has various tools to help you you make a website. business better. So that's to do with search. So getting found in search engines, and that's where your page descriptions, H1 and H2 and stuff like that comes in. Okay? It's a really important tool. It's not my specialty. Search is not my specialty. I I know about it. I do some of it but I I would

Allison 6:01

I would defer for any

Philippa 6:02

major work

Allison 6:03

work to somebody else.

Philippa 6:04

So

Allison 6:04

the tool

Philippa 6:05

tool

Allison 6:05

that I specialize.

Philippa 6:06

is Google

Allison 6:07

Google Analytics. Okay?

Philippa 6:09

Now

Allison 6:09

Now Google Analytics

Philippa 6:11

does

Allison 6:11

does in fact connect with Search Console, but Google Analytics is telling you about what's actually going on your website.

Philippa 6:16

So many

Allison 6:18

many people

Philippa 6:19

come, which

Allison 6:20

which is the sort of basic stuff that everybody

Philippa 6:22

knows. Maybe

Allison 6:23

Maybe they sell but the real power of Google is getting into that much more detail.

Philippa 6:28

So for

Allison 6:29

for example

Philippa 6:30

what

Allison 6:30

what do people do when they get to your site? What do you want them to do and do they do it?

Philippa 6:34

And then

Allison 6:35

and then we can start figuring out

Philippa 6:38

things

Allison 6:39

that really help you to focus on what works for your business

Philippa 6:42

Like

Allison 6:43

and what kind of marketing tactics or what kind of people and which of your content

Philippa 6:46

generates the

Allison 6:47

the best results. So

Philippa 6:49

here's

Allison 6:49

here's,

Philippa 6:50

line.

Allison 6:50

You said,

Philippa 6:51

I

Allison 6:51

I don't have analytics

Philippa 6:53

and

Allison 6:53

and I just looked at the website and.

Philippa 6:55

handy dandy tool that I have. I can

Allison 6:58

I can see

Philippa 6:59

that

Allison 7:00

it appears that you have Google Analytics

Philippa 7:02

on

Allison 7:02

on your website. Awesome.

Philippa 7:04

that right,

Allison 7:06

accidents,

Philippa 7:07

which means,

Allison 7:08

means so

Philippa 7:08

it

Allison 7:09

did that. I didn't do it.

Philippa 7:11

okay, which

Allison 7:11

Okay. Which means that you've got all sorts of data

Philippa 7:13

that you

Allison 7:14

you dunno about.

Philippa 7:15

And you are

Allison 7:16

you are shooting in the dark right now, in my opinion,

Philippa 7:18

I guess, which I

Allison 7:19

which I guess I get to say because Oh yes. You can call me on the carpet for sure. Just I are

Philippa 7:24

shooting in

Allison 7:25

in the dark with

Philippa 7:26

your

Allison 7:26

your entire

Philippa 7:27

in your website

Allison 7:28

in your website because you dunno

Philippa 7:30

what's

Allison 7:30

going on, what's working, what's not working, and where you wasting your time and money Amen. To, to any depth. Now a lot of website owners will say, but I know it's working because I get X number of sales which I'm sure you do.

Philippa 7:42

because you know what you're

Allison 7:43

I don't think they come through my website. I don't think they trip over me in a search. I think that most people find me through word of mouth and because I'm on other people's podcasts or I speak I'm invited to speak at women's leadership summit or a industry conference, and that's for me. And most of those people say, oh, I didn't even go to your site. I just knew I needed to work with you. I'm like that's nice, but we still need the site to function because I'm going to send you an invoice or a page so that you can join my course. Exactly so,

Philippa 8:23

and

Allison 8:23

and that's an important point to,

Philippa 8:24

and I

Allison 8:24

I say

Philippa 8:25

You're completely,

Allison 8:26

obviously,

Philippa 8:26

you're running a successful business. Different websites play a

Allison 8:31

A different level of role in each business. Yep.

Philippa 8:33

So for

Allison 8:34

So for some people,

Philippa 8:35

example, if

Allison 8:35

example, if you sell to government, you don't sell by,

Philippa 8:38

It doesn't work

Allison 8:38

it doesn't work.

Philippa 8:39

For some

Allison 8:40

for some people, their website really is a placement

Philippa 8:43

for others. So

Allison 8:44

So lemme just say this. Yeah.

Philippa 8:46

for example,

Allison 8:47

For example, you've got courses and you've got things that go on in your site. So it's not just about sales and marketing,

Philippa 8:52

it's

Allison 8:53

it's also about supporting your ongoing

Philippa 8:55

customers

Allison 8:55

customers in other ways.

Philippa 8:57

So whatever

Allison 8:57

So whatever your website is designed to do,

Philippa 8:59

the analytics is there to

Allison 9:01

is there to help you figure out if it's doing it effectively. And I think that the more I enjoy this pivot I've made in the last several months after I read 10 X is easier than two x. I was like, oh, everything's changing. I had a hard talk with myself and inside of two days I was like, oh, let's cut off the appendages that already are like limping along and everything is focused.'cause there's so much opportunity when we focus. So I love that you're calling me on the carpet on this because it just means that I can get even more focused on serving the people who are already looking for solutions that they could find for free on my site. Every podcast has a blog page where there are answers and also free resources, not wink, get my resource. And it's just a sales tool. It's like free templates people. And we're gonna talk a lot about that. And I'm, so glad that you're raising this for me'cause it's gonna go into my bullet journal, which is then

Philippa 10:16

And then there's

Allison 10:17

there's one other question that,

Philippa 10:18

so

Allison 10:19

so the people who call you, that you hear from

Philippa 10:21

tell

Allison 10:22

tell you they found you in other ways,

Philippa 10:23

your

Allison 10:24

your website, they may have seen your website, they may not,

Philippa 10:25

your

Allison 10:26

Your website may be

Philippa 10:26

support

Allison 10:27

what

Philippa 10:27

to what they

Allison 10:28

they've heard about you.

Philippa 10:30

What

Allison 10:30

What you dunno

Philippa 10:31

is

Allison 10:31

is whether you are in fact getting prospects to your site

Philippa 10:35

who

Allison 10:35

who don't call you

Philippa 10:36

the

Allison 10:37

site doesn't do it.

Philippa 10:38

which you therefore don't know about.

Allison 10:40

Exactly. And like everyone listening to this, who is a debut author or a seasoned author, but they're teaching at university and now they have to establish a website. Maybe their website is seven years old and it's on WordPress Boo. I only say that WordPress is lovely, but I did delete my WordPress site twice by accident because it's not for people who have sausage fingers and have ADHD. And I just saw all the things and I thought, what's this button? And it click and it went, it deleted. So, thank heavens for my virtual assistant. So what happens is these people that are still experts, they're not full-time authors, but they have a book that's coming out and now suddenly they're thrown into, I need a website that works. And usually they set it up and it looks like a digital business card. And so we stop that right away, time out. We don't need your website to be, Allison book coach. Nobody cares what your role, your title is. They just wanna know, what do I get? But then we have to know that when you are an expert writing a nonfiction book, you are providing solutions and inspiration and perspective that people are looking for using Google.

Philippa 12:08

right.

Allison 12:09

And if your site is not set up for that, and mostly I'm talking to myself now, allison. Then you are essentially shouting in a room with a closed door. I have all this, but you can't hear me. Walk us through the basics of what do we need to know and take action on so that we don't feel like we have to hire an agency to set this up for us. And also just answer the question. I know people are gonna ask, can Philippa do this for me? Probably the answer is maybe yes, I don't know. But just walk us through, what do we need to know?

Philippa 12:50

So

Allison 12:50

so lemme say this

Philippa 12:51

I'm

Allison 12:52

I'm actually writing book myself right now.

Philippa 12:53

which

Allison 12:54

Yes. I'm very excited. Oh, I can't wait to learn more about that.

Philippa 12:57

Yeah, I'm hoping

Allison 12:58

it's

Philippa 12:58

in the second quarter, which

Allison 12:59

coming up

Philippa 13:00

actually.

Allison 13:00

The thing. What I find is a lot of people that I work with are like you and

Philippa 13:04

and,

Allison 13:04

You have your expertise, you have the stuff you love to do.

Philippa 13:07

Looking

Allison 13:07

Looking at a load of graphs and charts is probably not gonna that, Right?

Philippa 13:11

So you talked

Allison 13:13

you talked about, bringing in an agency and

Philippa 13:15

Some

Allison 13:15

some agencies are very good, some of them

Philippa 13:17

Really are

Allison 13:18

are not,

Philippa 13:19

because they

Allison 13:20

they don't understand analytics in depth.

Philippa 13:22

use

Allison 13:23

analytics effectively,

Philippa 13:24

you've

Allison 13:25

you've really gotta understand the business and you've gotta understand what you're

Philippa 13:27

you're looking

Allison 13:27

looking at.

Philippa 13:28

And a

Allison 13:28

And a lot of

Philippa 13:29

agencies will

Allison 13:31

do what I, In business

Philippa 13:32

vanity metrics, Which

Allison 13:34

Which is really

Philippa 13:35

you've

Allison 13:35

you've got more visitors this week than you did last week. So we are doing a great job as your agency because we're bringing you

Philippa 13:40

of

Allison 13:40

to people

Philippa 13:40

and

Allison 13:41

and everybody's happy.

Philippa 13:42

You don't

Allison 13:42

You don't ask more questions,

Philippa 13:44

But the

Allison 13:45

the obvious question.

Philippa 13:46

so what?

Allison 13:47

Were the visitors, that they're getting you the right

Philippa 13:49

what did

Allison 13:49

one. What did they do?

Philippa 13:50

they

Allison 13:50

they fulfill the outcomes that you actually want them to do on your website?

Philippa 13:53

For

Allison 13:54

for you, as the business owner,

Philippa 13:56

I

Allison 13:56

I don't want you

Philippa 13:57

to

Allison 13:59

have to get to grips with that data if you don't

Philippa 14:01

to.

Allison 14:01

Like, no,

Philippa 14:02

nobody

Allison 14:03

who's ever hired

Philippa 14:05

has

Allison 14:05

me has said

Philippa 14:05

what

Allison 14:06

What I really need from you is 50 pages of, Charts and graphs and reports, right?

Philippa 14:11

The

Allison 14:11

The question that people who come

Philippa 14:13

to know

Allison 14:13

to me wanna know is, Philippa, what do I need to know to

Philippa 14:15

my

Allison 14:15

run my business better? And let's make no mistake, when you're an author, your publisher expects you to be marketing yourself

Philippa 14:25

Yeah.

Allison 14:26

your book. So number one, set up your LLC. It'll take 15 minutes. Do not pay someone to do this for you. Just Google irs.gov and you got it covered. LLC. And then second, your website needs to anticipate that people are gonna look for you. They're gonna want to come to your website. Just like you're having somebody over for dinner. They're gonna come to your front door. Do you just fling the door open and let them I'm hiding come and find us? Or do you greet them and walk them through where you want them to go?

Philippa 15:07

right.

Allison 15:07

You don't want them to go into the side room where you threw all of the unfolded laundry. That's a mess.

Philippa 15:14

Absolutely. So

Allison 15:15

So

Philippa 15:15

key

Allison 15:15

key thing for you as the business owner,

Philippa 15:17

if you

Allison 15:17

if you are,

Philippa 15:18

If you're

Allison 15:19

if you're going to work with So me, so the answer obviously

Philippa 15:21

yes,

Allison 15:21

yes.

Philippa 15:22

this.

Allison 15:22

Lovely.

Philippa 15:22

is, This is

Allison 15:23

This is what I do as a consultant Is you need to understand your business inside and out. And you need to be able to explain to me

Philippa 15:29

what

Allison 15:30

what is your website designed to do.

Philippa 15:32

So

Allison 15:32

So if we look at your website,

Philippa 15:33

I

Allison 15:33

I can see various different calls to action. The call to action is when you drive people to next step.

Philippa 15:38

So I

Allison 15:38

So I can see, for example, I'm on the page right now that's looking at

Philippa 15:41

next

Allison 15:42

next chapter network. So you've got

Philippa 15:43

a

Allison 15:44

a community,

Philippa 15:46

obviously you are

Allison 15:46

you are working with individuals, so you've got work with me.

Philippa 15:49

So

Allison 15:50

so you've got different outcomes that you want on the site, right? And everybody has different outcomes and

Philippa 15:55

and it's

Allison 15:56

it's important to know what those outcomes

Philippa 15:57

who each

Allison 15:58

each one is aim

Philippa 15:59

and

Allison 15:59

at, and where those tools to action are

Philippa 16:02

because

Allison 16:02

because then we can start digging in to start looking at, okay,

Philippa 16:06

are the

Allison 16:07

are the outcomes that we're looking for. Actually, it's not.

Philippa 16:11

how many

Allison 16:11

Many people come and, Where do they go?

Philippa 16:13

And

Allison 16:14

and are people

Philippa 16:15

consuming your

Allison 16:16

your content? So

Philippa 16:16

you've

Allison 16:17

you've got a podcast page. Yep. I just redid it. I hired a wonderful woman off of not off of Fiverr, but I think she's on Fiverr as well, but she's amazing. I call her Kajabi Carla because my site is on Kajabi and her name starts with a K. And so that's what I call her. She's fantastic. And I gave her the text and I said, here's the template that I bought from a amazing woman who is her website is Penny in your pocket, So I'll put this in. Everything we talk about, I'll put in the show notes. And Kajabi, Carla had that bad boy up in two days. And what was important is that it just, anything that could be done automatically was done automatically.'cause updating pages, this and that here and there makes my neck hurt.

Philippa 17:09

But for

Allison 17:10

But for example

Philippa 17:10

one of

Allison 17:11

one of the big mistakes that people make with their websites is that they focus on Where do they get traffic from? Because they gonna know that things like social media are working for them and then they focus on

Philippa 17:20

and

Allison 17:20

and what did they buy?

Philippa 17:22

Or

Allison 17:22

Or again, obviously I'm stressing outcomes here but the truth is that a lot of people come to your website and they don't.

Philippa 17:27

the first time. They look around. And

Allison 17:30

and so

Philippa 17:30

people

Allison 17:31

people tend to forget that whole bit in the middle where

Philippa 17:33

people are

Allison 17:33

are engaging with your content and figuring out what they think about you,

Philippa 17:36

and

Allison 17:37

and really importantly

Philippa 17:38

figuring out

Allison 17:38

out if they trust you.

Philippa 17:40

For

Allison 17:40

for example,

Philippa 17:41

your

Allison 17:41

on your podcast page you could make

Philippa 17:44

way

Allison 17:44

more of your, you've got a lot of content here

Philippa 17:47

This

Allison 17:47

this.

Philippa 17:47

that

Allison 17:47

see a lot

Philippa 17:48

a lot

Allison 17:49

about people

Philippa 17:49

who have podcasts.

Allison 17:51

What you tend to do is you put the newest podcast episode of Cake.

Philippa 17:54

Everybody

Allison 17:55

Everybody does that, obviously,

Philippa 17:56

But

Allison 17:56

but then as soon as

Philippa 17:58

You

Allison 17:59

you have a new episode, everything moves down.

Philippa 18:01

And so

Allison 18:02

so it starts getting lost. I can see it says see more, but,

Philippa 18:05

so

Allison 18:06

typically any single, any podcast site, has tons and tons of content is essentially

Philippa 18:11

hidden.

Allison 18:12

It may well be fuller of, those magic search engine keywords. There may be other ways that you

Philippa 18:18

to promote it or

Allison 18:20

it or use it.

Philippa 18:21

And you

Allison 18:21

and you can also tell from another, it's interesting things like how many people listen This applies to videos as well, right? How people consume the quantum.

Philippa 18:29

So

Allison 18:30

So not only how many people start listening to a podcast

Philippa 18:33

or

Allison 18:33

or watching the video, but how many actually go through and

Philippa 18:36

listen to

Allison 18:36

to or watch the whole thing because a.

Philippa 18:39

people

Allison 18:40

drop off. A

Philippa 18:40

A

Allison 18:40

lot of people don't really have to hold their attention. And that can be very helpful. For example I had a client

Philippa 18:45

recently who

Allison 18:46

who makes tons and tons of very high contact videos,

Philippa 18:50

Which are

Allison 18:50

which are wonderful.

Philippa 18:51

but the

Allison 18:51

But the problem I can see you're looking at your website now. I'm thinking maybe I should pull it up and you can walk through what we should be doing, but let's,

Philippa 19:01

but lemme

Allison 19:01

yeah, lemme just finish up. Example.

Philippa 19:03

an example.

Allison 19:03

The problem with this guy who had loads and loads

Philippa 19:05

of videos with wonderful

Allison 19:06

of content

Philippa 19:07

was

Allison 19:07

was that every single one started with,

Philippa 19:09

morning, my name is, and I've been in this business for 150 years, and I do this and

Allison 19:14

and I did that

Philippa 19:14

And

Allison 19:14

and people got really bored

Philippa 19:15

bored

Allison 19:16

really quickly,

Philippa 19:17

And

Allison 19:17

and he literally lost

Philippa 19:19

50% of

Allison 19:20

of all the people who started every video in the first 30 seconds. Yikes.

Philippa 19:25

and

Allison 19:26

90%

Philippa 19:27

by

Allison 19:28

the first minute now.

Philippa 19:31

that's

Allison 19:31

That's pretty bad, right? That We've really only gotta

Philippa 19:34

of his

Allison 19:34

of his content after one minute and he's already lost. Seven

Philippa 19:37

who

Allison 19:37

people started this,

Philippa 19:38

So

Allison 19:38

so you wouldn't know that without looking around analytics.

Philippa 19:40

And

Allison 19:41

And that's really one of the reasons to look at analytics

Philippa 19:43

there's all

Allison 19:44

is because there's all sorts of stuff

Philippa 19:45

know.

Allison 19:45

couldn't know,

Philippa 19:46

You

Allison 19:46

you couldn't possibly know if you didn't start looking at them in more depth

Philippa 19:50

with

Allison 19:50

with an idea

Philippa 19:51

what am I

Allison 19:51

of what am I looking for?

Philippa 19:52

It's not

Allison 19:52

So it's not just how many visitors are there, how many pages are there?

Philippa 19:55

it's

Allison 19:55

It's what are people actually doing?

Philippa 19:58

What

Allison 19:58

What are they engaging with, what do they like that I can do more of?

Philippa 20:01

And

Allison 20:01

And where am I wasting

Philippa 20:02

money and

Allison 20:03

and time

Philippa 20:04

putting

Allison 20:05

stuff up

Philippa 20:05

that

Allison 20:06

nobody cares about?

Philippa 20:06

cares about?

Allison 20:07

Actually, or I should say, putting stuff up that nobody sees either because they don't care or because

Philippa 20:13

not

Allison 20:13

are not directly. So

Philippa 20:14

to it, so they

Allison 20:14

they actually dunno what's there, right? Because no one really wants to go and open all the doors and click all the links and go. Especially because most people are looking at on their phones nobody wants to go scroll back up to find the navigation.

Philippa 20:30

exactly.

Allison 20:31

So yes.

Philippa 20:31

You

Allison 20:32

you said to me

Philippa 20:32

what

Allison 20:33

what should I be doing? Well, What should anyone be doing? But yes, we can use me as the Guinea pig.

Philippa 20:38

Well

Allison 20:38

The thing is, of course right now, I don't know

Philippa 20:40

because

Allison 20:40

because I'm only looking at your site format outside. I don't have access to your analytics right now.

Philippa 20:45

I

Allison 20:45

I could tell you

Philippa 20:46

right,

Allison 20:47

immediately off the top of my head,

Philippa 20:48

several red

Allison 20:49

red flags that I can see on the site.

Philippa 20:51

That

Allison 20:52

that if I had access to analytics, I would immediately start checking out

Philippa 20:55

to

Allison 20:55

oof

Philippa 20:56

see

Allison 20:56

see if there's a problem.

Philippa 20:57

So

Allison 20:57

So for example Your site looks very nice. I love all the book covers and everything, but each page is quite locked.

Philippa 21:03

Now,

Allison 21:03

people

Philippa 21:04

tend

Allison 21:05

not to scroll down one pages unless they're

Philippa 21:07

really

Allison 21:08

interested, especially when the page has this kind of horizontal,

Philippa 21:10

there are

Allison 21:11

there is section, it's like in sections, right?

Philippa 21:13

You, you

Allison 21:13

So I get to the end of a section and if I'm looking, I'm obviously looking at it on my desktop right now. Yeah. It can almost look like I'm at the end of the page. Yeah.

Philippa 21:21

So

Allison 21:22

So am I gonna keep scrolling

Philippa 21:23

And if

Allison 21:23

and if I don't keep scrolling, is there really important content that I'm not gonna see?

Philippa 21:28

Because

Allison 21:28

'cause it's further down,

Philippa 21:29

including really

Allison 21:30

really important calls to action or a place where Your main real,

Philippa 21:33

the

Allison 21:34

this is the point that is,

Philippa 21:35

I'm not gonna see

Allison 21:36

I'm not gonna see it.

Philippa 21:37

one of the

Allison 21:38

And one of the things that we can do

Philippa 21:39

with

Allison 21:40

with

Philippa 21:40

like

Allison 21:41

a tool like Google Analytics, which is of course free although I know people these days are bit suspicious of Google,

Philippa 21:46

a great

Allison 21:47

it's a great tool

Philippa 21:48

Outta the

Allison 21:48

outta the.

Philippa 21:49

It doesn't

Allison 21:49

It doesn't do this. So it's very customizable

Philippa 21:52

and you can

Allison 21:53

and you can customize it to really reflect the specific things that you're looking for that we would decide together that we're looking for. One of the things

Philippa 22:01

that you

Allison 22:01

that you can do

Philippa 22:02

to

Allison 22:02

to measure exactly how far down the page each people

Philippa 22:05

people

Allison 22:06

are going.

Philippa 22:06

So

Allison 22:07

So you can set little flags that fire off and say, X number of people go 25%, 50%, 75%

Philippa 22:13

by

Allison 22:14

by default,

Philippa 22:15

It

Allison 22:15

it only tells you when people are 90% of the way down the page

Philippa 22:18

which is almost to the

Allison 22:19

oh to the bottom.

Philippa 22:20

And for

Allison 22:21

for

Philippa 22:21

really long

Allison 22:22

long pages like you have, that's really not gonna capture

Philippa 22:26

helpfully the

Allison 22:26

the fall.

Philippa 22:27

off. So

Allison 22:28

so that's an example of something that if I was looking at your site, I would immediately check out.

Philippa 22:33

I

Allison 22:33

I would also, by the way,

Philippa 22:35

let

Allison 22:35

let you know.

Philippa 22:36

that is it

Allison 22:37

is it alright if I embarrass you?

Philippa 22:38

you?

Allison 22:38

Oh yeah. I don't get embarrassed.

Philippa 22:42

So

Allison 22:43

am, I actually did immune

Philippa 22:44

join the

Allison 22:45

the network because I actually thought that looks interesting, especially since I've come to bring the book out. Yeah.

Philippa 22:50

and

Allison 22:50

And you've got,

Philippa 22:52

so this

Allison 22:52

this page called the Next Chapter Network,

Philippa 22:55

But I

Allison 22:55

I dunno if you've thought of We all have this problem'cause as the owner we get so close to our site, we don't see stuff.

Philippa 23:00

But

Allison 23:01

I finished looking at the page. I went back to the top to go back and

Philippa 23:05

I, there's

Allison 23:06

there's no navigation at the top of that page.

Philippa 23:08

And

Allison 23:08

And it doesn't say

Philippa 23:09

your

Allison 23:10

your main

Philippa 23:11

lane

Allison 23:12

Allison Lane, The main

Philippa 23:13

the

Allison 23:14

the logo says Next chapter network only.

Philippa 23:16

I notice that

Allison 23:17

that if I click on it, I do get back to your regular homepage,

Philippa 23:21

but

Allison 23:22

that's.

Philippa 23:22

confusing

Allison 23:24

Okay. I will address that. That's a super easy fix. Best practice about sales pages like that is, don't put the navigation like way back so that people can bounce around. But yeah, of course my name should be at the top and you should be able to know where you are where you've landed. Yeah

Philippa 23:44

I,

Allison 23:44

and I

Philippa 23:44

you don't

Allison 23:45

I would push back a bit on that personally.

Philippa 23:47

That philosophy. Because to

Allison 23:49

because to me,

Philippa 23:49

this

Allison 23:50

this piece where you force people to do stuff,

Philippa 23:52

it's

Allison 23:52

it's don't treat me like I'm stupid. If I wanna do something, if you're interesting, you, I just told you're interested. I'm bringing the book out.

Philippa 24:00

I see you've

Allison 24:00

That looks interesting. I'd like to know more. You don't have to push me down some sort of funnel.

Philippa 24:05

Dunno. And

Allison 24:06

and one of the great things about

Philippa 24:08

is

Allison 24:08

is that you can test stuff, right? So I can

Philippa 24:10

and say,

Allison 24:10

say I don't like that philosophy.

Philippa 24:11

You

Allison 24:12

You could easily set up testing whereby if somebody

Philippa 24:16

went

Allison 24:16

went on that page, you could serve two different versions of, you can automate this very easily.

Philippa 24:20

right?

Allison 24:20

So one has your regular navigation on it and one doesn't

Philippa 24:23

as it

Allison 24:23

as it's now. Yeah.

Philippa 24:25

And you

Allison 24:25

And you can easily test how those two pages perform against each other.

Philippa 24:29

So we don't

Allison 24:30

You don't have to sit here and I didn't like,

Philippa 24:31

and

Allison 24:32

And it, I'm just listening to the, I think it's such interesting and helpful, written, generous feedback that you're giving to me. So I accept it fully and I will act on it. And yet, I think the best practice is not we wanna shove anyone into a funnel or a tube or give or limit their choices. But when people are confused, when they think, maybe I want something else, and I'll go back to where I was then there suddenly there are too many things to look at, and then they bounce out.

Philippa 25:06

Yeah.

Allison 25:06

Especially when websites are not organized in a way that limits people's, scroll. And then it's almost like an ant farm where they're like now I'm lost. I don't know how to get back to where I was. And they bounce out because they're just like, forget it. And of course there's, there's the right

Philippa 25:26

to

Allison 25:26

to approach each situation and Absolutely. Of course, I equally get it. Absolutely. Pages that I've seen that they're so busy that you dunno what to do. And that where there are buttons and they I like a page having multiple buttons that all go the same place. That's why when you go to my homepage that you actually land on the work with me page because that's what everyone says, how do I work with you? And I have not taken the time to develop a quiz at the top that says, do you need this or do you need that? Because that would actually be more helpful. But I don't have that functionality yet, so at least I have work with me and here are three choices. That's it. That's great. But clarity is good.

Philippa 26:14

No,

Allison 26:15

No, and you do have to, I think I said this earlier, you do have to drive people around to take the actions you want them take. So somewhere probably between

Philippa 26:22

complete.

Allison 26:23

But the thing about your networking thing. I think is where I was thinking is okay, I'm interested, but I need to know more about

Philippa 26:28

who

Allison 26:28

who this person is, what kind of, so then I do want to go back to the rest of the site. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing that I would say is that,

Philippa 26:37

when we

Allison 26:37

when we talk about best practice, one of the other things I find is that there's a lot of generic advice out there. Yeah. There's a tremendous amount of advice.

Philippa 26:44

You

Allison 26:44

must,

Philippa 26:44

you must do this. Honestly,

Allison 26:46

Honestly, I find that, Your mileage may vary as they say.

Philippa 26:49

So whenever

Allison 26:50

whenever you are looking at that, this is the best practice, This is the general advice,

Philippa 26:54

just

Allison 26:55

just make sure that it really does apply in your situation. For example, there's a lot of information about mobile websites and how many people are now accessing on their

Philippa 27:04

phones, which is

Allison 27:05

is of

Philippa 27:05

very

Allison 27:06

very important because

Philippa 27:07

it

Allison 27:07

it changes the user experience. Yeah. You

Philippa 27:10

to

Allison 27:10

need to make sure before you go crazy about making sure your website's mobile friendly, that applies to,

Philippa 27:15

So

Allison 27:15

so some of my clients are very much a, B2B I've worked with clients in the engineering manufacturing space, for example,

Philippa 27:22

where their websites are

Allison 27:24

their websites are used by people come to buy parts or, Doing research about equipment and stuff like that. And

Philippa 27:31

they

Allison 27:32

they are typically on a desktop because they're in their offices

Philippa 27:35

searching for

Allison 27:36

for stuff. And when you look at their analytics, so your analytics again, will tell you what device do people use to come to your website

Philippa 27:42

and you

Allison 27:42

you can see the breakdown.

Philippa 27:44

And

Allison 27:44

And so in those situations, the mobile usage is way low Because of the nature of that business.

Philippa 27:51

So

Allison 27:51

That's what I'm saying. It's important to make sure that

Philippa 27:54

whatever

Allison 27:54

advice you are looking at, it does

Philippa 27:56

pertain to

Allison 27:57

to your situation. Let's take a for instance because I know this is book launch season. There are three seasons a year of book launches. There's January to May, which is very busy, and then there's June through September, which is really good for certain genres. And then there's like September to December, which more books are sold during that time than throughout the rest of the year, which is because of the holiday season.

Philippa 28:31

Right.

Allison 28:32

we are in a busy time right now and most nonfiction authors are experts. They're, or historians or medical practitioners. And I'm just pointing behind myself here. We've got Dr. Mara, Einstein's book, hoodwinked, which is how marketers are using the same practices as cults. Frightening but true. She's a media expert. And then, this memoir by Jessica, the Widow's Guide to Dead Bastards. She what? It's riveting. And it reads like a thriller. So she didn't have a web, she had a WordPress site, but now people, she's got a bestseller in Canada and the US it is her debut. People wanna connect with her. And she needs a website that can function when she's asleep because she can't write everybody back anymore. And then this is breathtaking another memoir, but it's breathtaking. A memoir of Family Dreams and Broken Genes by Jessica Fein, who's healthcare Advocate and now has a podcast. So all of these are very different, but Einstein's book, she had a website before, but she had to develop a new one'cause she knew that people were going to be coming to her site looking for advice and she needed to have some guides that were easily downloadable. So she prepared that in advance. She's not doing, courses or classes yet. She's still teaching at the university. But these memoirs, would you write a memoir? People who want to write a memoir, want to quote unquote air bunnies pick your brain, which is the after two people,

Philippa 30:27

Yeah.

Allison 30:27

You have to charge for that. Put people in a group, they appreciate it more, they learn more. They value the community more, and you have to anticipate that people are going to ask. So you wanna be prepared for that, which is my long way of saying, at the very least on your website, anticipate that people are going to be looking for a solution and a way to get personalized attention, which doesn't have to be one-on-one. Based on that, Philippa, if you could guide people how to welcome a new visitor to their homepage, what should they be greeted with?

Philippa 31:11

Actually, that's a

Allison 31:12

that's a great question because like you're saying,

Philippa 31:14

some

Allison 31:15

some homepages try to do

Philippa 31:16

a

Allison 31:17

a bazillion different things. Yeah.

Philippa 31:18

One

Allison 31:19

One of the most, you said that you've got three different types of,

Philippa 31:23

People, is

Allison 31:24

is that right? Is that what you, the three I just gave you, there's usually a memoirist that's a debut or a seasoned expert, or every, almost everyone I work with is a debut author. And they're running an ER in, at a major hospital and they don't have time to become, they just need things to work and they need them to set it up the first time, which means setting up a website means writing it in a way that then the person laying it out for you can just do their job. But if we don't write it the content in the way that Philippa that you tell us to, it's gonna stink. Because no matter what, you land at the top. And the biggest mistake I see people make is that they want the top to say, hi, I'm Allison. No, absolutely not. We don't need that.

Philippa 32:21

Yeah.

Allison 32:22

Yeah. I think actually you said it

Philippa 32:23

already. One

Allison 32:24

already.

Philippa 32:25

things to

Allison 32:25

of the easiest things to do is to say, okay,

Philippa 32:28

the

Allison 32:28

you know the main categories of your visitors

Philippa 32:30

to say

Allison 32:31

to say, hi,

Philippa 32:32

are

Allison 32:32

RUA

Philippa 32:34

a

Allison 32:34

A memoir, person B, whatever,

Philippa 32:36

and

Allison 32:36

and immediately direct them to

Philippa 32:38

a

Allison 32:39

a page is dedicated

Philippa 32:41

to that

Allison 32:42

person.

Philippa 32:43

or to that

Allison 32:43

That type of visitor.

Philippa 32:45

And

Allison 32:45

And something else actually that I would like. See on your side because as we're talking, you really come across this at all Is a welcome video.

Philippa 32:52

Hi. So

Allison 32:52

So you're thinking of writing a memoir, here's how I can help. Here are just few things you need to know because

Philippa 32:58

I

Allison 32:58

I think that would be really powerful. I do love too. I have, I am not shy when it comes to just talking in my basement into my camera. There's no one here. And if I don't like it,

Philippa 33:11

You do

Allison 33:11

then I do it again.

Philippa 33:13

I think

Allison 33:13

I think that would really come across, because at the moment

Philippa 33:16

you

Allison 33:16

you don't have that right. I don't see anything. I had one, but I didn't like my sweater or the lighting, so I took it down because I'm vain. And I think that yes, but I recognize that should have been on my list. I'm gonna put it into my bullet journal so that right after this I record.

Philippa 33:35

But

Allison 33:35

welcome.

Philippa 33:36

anybody watching, if

Allison 33:37

If you have some very different categories of visitor that you can identify Just like Allison just did,

Philippa 33:42

then that's

Allison 33:44

that's a really good technique is to have separate pages for each of those where you can talk directly to the kinds of things they're gonna wanna hear. As opposed to trying to say all things to all people,

Philippa 33:52

all the time, which really

Allison 33:53

doesn't. Yeah. So that's super helpful. So the thing is for anyone who has a debut coming out, one of the first things we do is identify who your audiences are. And everyone has five different audiences and know they don't overlap. So, you may not say I'm writing a memoir, so my audience is people who love memoir. No, that's not how people read genres. That's how people read fiction. Oh, I love historical fiction. That, or I love erotica meow. But that's not how people read nonfiction. People read nonfiction around a topic, a theme, or a solution. And they don't read just memoir. They might, so let's take The Widow's Guide to Dead Bastards as an example that I know it's the best title ever. And Jessica Waite is such an unassuming, lovely, soft-spoken woman, and I love her dearly. And the fact that she wrote this book and it is so honest and compassionate. And also direct is ever Canadian of her. She's the sweetest woman. So when we were looking at her audience. And I worked with her in a small group program, which Ps now I know I have to update my website to say that. She of course was thinking memoirs or anybody who's interested in grief no, that's not, people aren't, what we're the audiences are. Anyone who's been widowed that, that's beyond grief is like saying anybody who breathes, like it's too big. Anybody who's been widowed and is and anyone separately, anyone who has a relationship that is unresolved. But they're separated from that person. You can't resolve a relationship with someone who's passed.

Philippa 36:05

Yeah.

Allison 36:05

And, or maybe you can. But those are two different things. And then, there's also she had topics about financial independence because her spouse died and he handled all the dollars. There was that and there were three others. But now that we know that she can address those people based on the podcast that she's been on, and she's been on my podcast. And direct them to the podcast episodes that they would be most interested in and make sure that they're on her site. Is that what you're saying?

Philippa 36:47

Yeah.

Allison 36:48

Yep.

Philippa 36:48

Yeah.

Allison 36:49

Okay. So for all these authors and

Philippa 36:53

Just to say

Allison 36:54

Yes.

Philippa 36:54

the

Allison 36:55

The categories that you identify are

Philippa 36:56

are easy for

Allison 36:57

for people to self identify into. Okay.

Philippa 37:00

So if

Allison 37:00

if somebody's looking at it going

Philippa 37:01

dunno.

Allison 37:02

dunno, I could do that. Yeah. That then it's a little more difficult. I think that sometimes I see on websites maybe even like podcasts or like a media page that you can search by topic.

Philippa 37:17

Yes.

Allison 37:17

Yes. So that would be one way to do that.

Philippa 37:20

Another a great way to organize your podcasts earlier I talking about the amount of wasted content I see on podcast sites or or podcast pages, So so that and that's something I did with one of my my clients, we

Allison 37:31

we created

Philippa 37:32

pages for her

Allison 37:33

podcast. I mean she does

Philippa 37:35

for management

Allison 37:36

podcasts. But you know

Philippa 37:37

that

Allison 37:38

topic, there's

Philippa 37:39

subtopics. Then again, you've got categories. You can point

Allison 37:43

People around into deeper levels of the concept. I love that.'cause that's one of the things that people do normally is that they go by what the website templates come with. Oh, we have a media page and we have an about page and I'm thinking about is boring'cause nobody wants to read about your backstory. Or

Philippa 38:07

no, actually I

Allison 38:08

I like to meld them because nobody wants 15 pages.

Philippa 38:12

Okay.

Allison 38:13

Yeah. Okay. What,

Philippa 38:14

only

Allison 38:14

only thing I was gonna say is in my experience

Philippa 38:16

if

Allison 38:16

if somebody

Philippa 38:18

goes to a

Allison 38:18

to a business site

Philippa 38:19

and

Allison 38:20

and they've never seen that site before. Yes. They do go to the about page because they wanna know who is this person or who is this company,

Philippa 38:27

What's their

Allison 38:28

their history, how long have they been around, do they know what they're doing that about Paige?

Philippa 38:32

you

Allison 38:32

You can't get rid of it.

Philippa 38:33

I would

Allison 38:33

Strongly say you

Philippa 38:34

say you

Allison 38:34

shouldn't get rid. I don't think we should get rid of it, but there's a lot of people have an about a media page. A books page, and a podcast page. And then sometimes it'll be like, press, sometimes they write articles for media versus coverage of them, and they'll have those separated and I go Peter, Paul, and Mary. That's too many pages Of, you just

Philippa 39:01

have to be

Allison 39:02

to careful because

Philippa 39:02

example,

Allison 39:03

if you looking press coverage,

Philippa 39:05

a

Allison 39:06

a press page, a

Philippa 39:07

pre page that's

Allison 39:08

that's dedicated to journalists can be

Philippa 39:09

helpful because

Allison 39:11

because on there, journalists are busy, they haven't got time to find stuff. You give them

Philippa 39:14

You give'em a page

Allison 39:14

a page where it's here's my picture, here's my bio, here's my quotes, here's this, that, whatever you wanna give them. Right. In a one stop shop. And that's actually very helpful thing to do. But wouldn't you rather see that under a navigation that had a dropdown, a top navigation that had a, like, I don't know if you would call it media, or you would have one page that's at for pressing queries, one page that's media coverage, one page at least so it's organized in people's heads.

Philippa 39:44

Yeah.

Allison 39:44

It depends.

Philippa 39:45

The

Allison 39:45

but what I'm really saying there is if you have the audiences like you,

Philippa 39:48

are

Allison 39:48

you're really trying to get

Philippa 39:49

where it's

Allison 39:50

it's really important that you make it

Philippa 39:52

absolutely

Allison 39:53

easy for them to try and

Philippa 39:54

find what

Allison 39:54

what they need, then that's the priority. So what's the first step that when people, if they're starting from scratch or they're chucking an old site and they say, okay I do is the first step sketching everything out on a piece of paper so that, where to where you're taking them.

Philippa 40:14

Yeah, it could well be

Allison 40:15

Yeah. It could well be and remember it's a website, so

Philippa 40:17

it it doesn't have to be totally strictly hierarchical because people can jump around. Your Structure You, it mean it's helpful to have a structure so that you know where you're going to start with and what goes well. I mean, The one thing I would say is that in, again, in in all my experience, there's just so so many times where we put up a website and then we watch how people actually use it, and then they do things that surprise us. People always up doing things that surprise me. never quite know. But the thing about the analytics again is that if you're tracking what's going on, you you can see when they start doing things that surprise you, and then you can act on that.

Allison 40:51

What's an outdated website strategy that doesn't work anymore?

Philippa 40:58

That's a

Allison 40:58

Really interesting question. I get bonus points for interesting questions. One of the things I find very interesting

Philippa 41:05

is,

Allison 41:05

is, the work gives us capabilities that we didn't have. Are, Obviously

Philippa 41:09

I've been

Allison 41:10

been doing this for a while, so I've been around for

Philippa 41:12

in

Allison 41:12

in fact, to be honest I've been working with the internet since it started

Philippa 41:16

when I

Allison 41:16

when I was younger.

Philippa 41:17

But that

Allison 41:17

but that gives you the opportunity to see what works, doesn't.

Philippa 41:20

But I

Allison 41:21

but I think

Philippa 41:21

really

Allison 41:22

interesting thing is that marketing fundamentals don't necessarily change. I talked already about one of the most important things you do have to do is establish trust with whoever, with your

Philippa 41:31

your visitors.

Allison 41:31

And you have to be clear that you can do what you say you do. And there's stuff

Philippa 41:35

that

Allison 41:35

that doesn't change in that regard.

Philippa 41:38

And

Allison 41:38

and there's all these predictions about stuff that isn't gonna work anymore. And you, I still,

Philippa 41:42

I

Allison 41:42

I think I still have a screenshot

Philippa 41:44

of

Allison 41:44

of a,

Philippa 41:44

cover of

Allison 41:45

of Wired magazine

Philippa 41:46

back

Allison 41:47

maybe 2010,

Philippa 41:49

something like

Allison 41:49

like that said, email is dead.

Philippa 41:51

Nobody

Allison 41:52

uses email anymore.

Philippa 41:53

Kids don't

Allison 41:54

don't wanna use it. It's boring. And here we are in 2025

Philippa 41:58

and

Allison 41:58

and whenever you, surveys of marketers

Philippa 42:01

asking about

Allison 42:01

about most effectively online marketing tactics, email is still way up the top of the list. Yeah. Because everybody's still, this is,

Philippa 42:09

or

Allison 42:09

And we use other things. But

Philippa 42:10

we're

Allison 42:10

we're still using it.

Philippa 42:12

Yeah.

Allison 42:13

yeah. Is there anything that really doesn't happen?

Philippa 42:15

I don't

Allison 42:15

I dunno, I

Philippa 42:16

evolve.

Allison 42:16

think things evolve. I think the change for authors or experts who wanna be contributing to media or expand their expertise and start speaking on stages. Especially as I only work with women and all of my clients are over 50, which means they're seasoned, they're experts, and they've reached the top of their industry. And when you reach the top of your industry and you still know that you love what you do, and you're not ready to go crawl in a hole or moonwalk out of there and retire that you want to share what you know, which means breaking out and following a path that hasn't been set for you. Which means it might mean you're gonna be speaking, but not at an industry conference. You're gonna be speaking at a mass market conference, or I don't know running a course or you have to think bigger about where you're going and you are the one who has to do that. Which means that your website you own now and email is the way to. Where for when people opt in and they say, oh, I am interested in you. They wanna get something from you, you have to give them that opportunity. And just posting on social, even when someone follows you is not a guarantee that they're gonna even see your post. And I think we used to think, maybe they, they won't see it because of the time I posted. Now, they might not see it because the platform might not show it to them. Even though they clicked, show me all philippa's posts, or, I wanna see all of Allison's videos. The only way to guarantee that is to give them that invitation. Hey, I am happy to send you these resources once a week. Give me your address so I can make sure it reaches you. But that's the big mistake that people make, is that they see that interaction as oh, I don't want people to have to give me their email. How are you gonna send something you're giving a gift to someone? Do you expect them to get it? It's not even, we're serving someone. Why wouldn't you deliver something that comes to what they're saying is easy for them. So that's number one on a website, I would think is to give someone a way to get more from you. As I said, email is still

Philippa 44:59

one of

Allison 44:59

one of the top marketing

Philippa 45:01

tools that,

Allison 45:02

that marketers

Philippa 45:03

in terms of

Allison 45:03

effectiveness, therefore, and.

Philippa 45:05

yes,

Allison 45:06

Absolutely. If somebody gives you their email address

Philippa 45:08

they've

Allison 45:08

they've said they wanna hear from you and it's, yeah. It's gold. It's worth,

Philippa 45:12

and

Allison 45:13

and as you said, social media,

Philippa 45:15

I think

Allison 45:15

I think the average organic reach of the social media post is way below 5%. So

Philippa 45:19

it's very, very

Allison 45:20

I think it's below 1%. And social media advertising, again, this is where analytics can help.

Philippa 45:27

I

Allison 45:27

I do know businesses that will jump into social media advertising because

Philippa 45:31

it

Allison 45:31

it feels very seductive

Philippa 45:33

the

Allison 45:33

and the social media companies do a good job at promoting their ads.

Philippa 45:37

It

Allison 45:37

it tends to be cheaper, for example, than Google's paid search ads.

Philippa 45:41

But again, in the

Allison 45:42

in the analytics, you can track by traffic source,

Philippa 45:45

so

Allison 45:45

so you can see exactly who comes from

Philippa 45:48

social

Allison 45:49

media and specifically which platform.

Philippa 45:51

or, and

Allison 45:51

Which

Philippa 45:51

which campaign.

Allison 45:53

And then you can see their engagement levels and very typically, I hate to say this, but engagement levels from social media are very, very core typical because people aren't

Philippa 46:03

really shopping on

Allison 46:05

on social media. They're not really thinking about their business necessarily. They're

Philippa 46:08

likely

Allison 46:09

to be talking friends

Philippa 46:11

watching cat

Allison 46:12

cat videos. I do watch all those cat videos, every single one. We don't have a cat anymore, but I do get caught especially when they rescue a cat.

Philippa 46:24

But

Allison 46:25

you're not in the I'm looking to buy a business service mode.

Philippa 46:27

now,

Allison 46:28

So are you saying that one of the biggest opportunities for people is to make sure that their call to action of you could, sign up here to get more book recommendations or resources for healing, navigating grief or whatever the resource is, but to make sure that you're offering that in a way that's not at the bottom of the page.'cause I heard you say don't make people wait to scroll.

Philippa 46:56

okay, So it could be at the bottom, it should be bottom page. So when you get to the bottom, if you do, then it's there. But there's, you can put as you do, I, it

Allison 47:03

On your site,

Philippa 47:04

You

Allison 47:04

you put calls to action all the way through

Philippa 47:06

for

Allison 47:07

for me.

Philippa 47:07

The

Allison 47:07

the thing is,

Philippa 47:09

think

Allison 47:09

think about the emotional response visitor to the content you're presenting.

Philippa 47:13

And

Allison 47:13

And time where they might be saying

Philippa 47:15

that's

Allison 47:15

that's interesting. Tell me more.

Philippa 47:17

That

Allison 47:17

That would be a good place to put call to action.

Philippa 47:20

Because you

Allison 47:20

because you don't wanna make them then have to figure out how to get to the

Philippa 47:23

the next

Allison 47:24

extent. One of the other things that people do that sometimes can

Philippa 47:27

off-putting is that

Allison 47:29

that there's a form that you fill in

Philippa 47:31

maybe as a, an

Allison 47:32

initial kind of contact form.

Philippa 47:34

And

Allison 47:35

it's typically important to make that pretty short because the more you ask, the less likely people are to fill it in. And I've seen forms that ask you all sorts of stuff that, if they contact you, you could ask them that at that point. But again,

Philippa 47:47

with

Allison 47:48

analytics that you customize,

Philippa 47:50

you

Allison 47:50

you can tell

Philippa 47:51

many

Allison 47:51

many people start filling in a form and then don't complete it.

Philippa 47:55

And

Allison 47:55

And again, if you look at that kind of data, you can

Philippa 47:58

easily

Allison 47:59

tell if your forms

Philippa 48:00

potentially too

Allison 48:01

too long or annoying. Yeah, I started a form yesterday and I backed out of it'cause I was like, I don't want to answer all these questions. And it might have been four questions, but I'm like, why do I have to do this in order to come to your masterclass?

Philippa 48:17

right.

Allison 48:17

just, I don't wanna No, thank you. Forget it. It's

Philippa 48:20

owner,

Allison 48:20

older, the.

Philippa 48:21

are you gonna

Allison 48:21

Get I know that sometimes I

Philippa 48:23

go to

Allison 48:23

go to a business webinar and it asks me, for example, you know,

Philippa 48:26

what's the,

Allison 48:27

the, what's your annual,

Philippa 48:28

annual business

Allison 48:29

webinar?

Philippa 48:30

And it's

Allison 48:30

I,

Philippa 48:30

not

Allison 48:30

it's not of their business. I don't see why I should tell them that. And I

Philippa 48:33

I'll

Allison 48:33

lie, I'll say, oh, it's over 50 million.

Philippa 48:35

which it isn't, unfortunately.

Allison 48:37

And so what's the point of that? They've got useless data. Yeah. I recently was asked to be on a podcast and sent the intake form. So they had my bio and stuff. And then it asked me all kinds of financial information what in the world? How, and then I thought, I don't wanna be on that podcast. I don't care how big the audience is. That is ridiculous that they would use that as a, like a trolling tool. I guess some of these I know,

Philippa 49:05

as obviously you can tell, I also guest on podcasts, and I know some of

Allison 49:08

and some of them say.

Philippa 49:09

you

Allison 49:09

You must be making over X amount of money to be a guest on this podcast because I think obviously it's a measure of success in some ways.

Philippa 49:17

I'm

Allison 49:17

I'm not too keen on those either. Yeah, I reached out to you'cause I was like, she knows her stuff. And that's what we're here to do is to help people who wanna write books and are writing books, market themselves better, make better decisions faster with more confidence so that it's exciting and fun. This isn't supposed to be overwhelming and crushing and in no way should you feel like you're spinning your wheels clear direction. So what we've heard today is your website content should be planned so that you know who you're welcoming and what they're looking for. And that google Analytics can help you understand what people are doing once they come to your site and what they really wanna do, so that you can make decisions faster. And that's the best thing. Now, let's pivot'cause I do have two other questions for you. What is a book that you are loving right now

Philippa 50:21

Our loving

Allison 50:22

You mentioned one earlier, so you mentioned nexus, is that right?

Philippa 50:28

Oh,

Allison 50:29

Oh.

Philippa 50:29

yes, that

Allison 50:30

that was in the survey that you sent? Yeah. Nexus

Philippa 50:33

there's this guy

Allison 50:33

there's this guy called Val Noah,

Philippa 50:35

who's an

Allison 50:35

who's an Israeli.

Philippa 50:36

he's like an economist

Allison 50:38

aist historian.

Philippa 50:39

He's

Allison 50:39

He's amazing.

Philippa 50:40

first book

Allison 50:41

His first book was called

Philippa 50:42

which is

Allison 50:42

which is like a history of,

Philippa 50:45

in

Allison 50:45

in terms of

Philippa 50:46

thinking and our

Allison 50:46

and development, the way societies work and

Philippa 50:50

is

Allison 50:50

Nexus is about information and how information works. And, for somebody like me,

Philippa 50:54

it's

Allison 50:55

it's very fascinating. Yeah. We will put that in the show notes. Now, philip last question, before we call this podcast complete, what is the one thing you wanna leave people with today?

Philippa 51:10

Honestly, If you have a website that plays

Allison 51:12

any kind of role in your business and you are not

Philippa 51:15

looking at at the analytics to see what's going on, you you're shooting in the dark with your investment in that light. So please you you don't have to get grip of the data yourself. Find somebody like me can can help help you. But please take a look a look at what's going on and make that website really Worth its great goal.

Allison 51:34

Perfect advice. Thank you so much for being here and for agreeing to help authors get a better edge.

Philippa 51:42

Thank you.

Allison 51:43

For sure.