How We Overcome Self-Doubt with Dr. Tara Cousineau | Ep. 54

Have you ever told yourself, “I’ll write my book when I feel ready” or “Who am I to write this?” If so, you’re not alone. High achievers often struggle with self-doubt, perfectionism, and the fear of putting their ideas into the world, especially when it comes to publishing a book.

Allison Lane sits down with Dr. Tara Cousineau, clinical psychologist and author of "The Perfectionist Dilemma," to discuss how perfectionism holds authors back and what you can do to finally take action. If you’ve been procrastinating on writing, launching, or marketing your book, this conversation will give you the mindset shifts you need.

Press play now and take the first step toward writing with confidence.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The biggest mistakes high-achieving authors make when it comes to writing and publishing.
• Why perfectionism sabotages book launches and how to break the cycle.
• The mindset shift that will help you finally start (and finish) your book.

Resources Mentioned:

• Website: https://www.taracousineau.com/ 
• Book Site: https://perfectionistsdilemma.com/ 
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taracousineau/ 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tara_cousineau/ 
• Dr. Tara’s Substack: https://taracousphd.substack.com/ 
• The Next Chapter Network: https://www.lanelit.com/nextchapter 
• Book Recommendation: 
  • Dr. Tara’s Book - The Perfectionist Dilemma: Learn the Art of Self-Compassion and Become a Happy Achiever: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781639109463 
  • Weyward: A Novel by Emilia Hart:  https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781250842725  

Timestamps: 

[00:04:04] – Why high-achieving authors struggle with self-doubt and procrastination?

[00:09:26] – The hidden connection between perfectionism and fear of writing.

[00:17:12] – How to stop waiting for the “perfect time” to write your book.

[00:26:38] – The power of self-compassion in overcoming creative roadblocks.

[00:34:28] – A simple mindset shift to help you finish and launc

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Transcript

Dr. Tara 0:00

We don't want to get rid of that striving for excellence. Like that's a really important value. It's important to feel like you're doing quality, meaningful work in the world. But you don't need to suffer as you do it.

Allison 0:36

Welcome back to the Author's Edge. I am your host, Allison Lane, and I am here for you. I'm so glad you're showing up for yourself and making time to make yourself a better marketer for your own being and for the book that you meant to write 10 years ago, but you wrote now. Or the book that you are just starting to figure out what does it wanna be. Or if you're on your eighth book, it doesn't matter. We all need to be better marketers of ourselves and also the books we're writing. So, you're in the right place. Sit back wherever you are. Probably, in the target parking lot'cause that's where I listen to the podcast that have time to. And let me dive in because today I'm so happy to welcome Dr. Tara Cousineau to the show. She's a clinical psychologist, a meditation teacher. She is yogarefic. And she helps high achievers let go of perfectionism and step into the opportunity they have to do the thing that they always wanted to do, but with confidence and joy. Who doesn't want that? She's also a psychologist at Harvard's Counseling and mental health services. She's has her own private practice. Her new book also is the Perfectionist Dilemma. Learn the art of self-Compassion and become a happy achiever. This book is so good. You'll hear during the interview how it has changed me and what the changes I've made to even my schedule are. I can't wait to hear how you are changed. When you read it too, you'll see all the links for her book and the book she recommends and all the things we talk about in the show notes. But let's now dive in. Welcome, Dr. Tara Kusano. We're both in the afterglow of your book launch event at the Harvard bookstore called The Coop, which I thought was co-op, but then I got corrected by a client who's written 22 books, and he was like no, it's the Coop, Allison. And I was like, oh, okay. I'm so not an insider. But now I am. Now I'm in the inner circle. So, congratulations on your book launch of this amazing thing, the perfectionist dilemma. I keep telling you, how much you've helped me already, and this baby's only been out for a couple weeks. But the subtitle says it all to me, the learn the art of self-compassion and become a happy achiever. As a high achiever and a perfectionist myself. Like I do wanna still achieve, but I don't wanna feel the weight of the guilt of which I think we always do of but you didn't do all this other stuff. And that's what we focus on. And I wanna be able to celebrate everything that I am doing, but also that I want other people. So, for those listening in who are just as busy as you are with working full-time and serving patients, or teaching students, or cause listeners, I know that you're listening in the car on your way somewhere'cause you're trying to fit this in. I want to ask you Dr. Tara, about all those high achievers out there who are probably making some common mistakes when it comes to looking at their own success. So, let's just kick off by you helping us understand what are those common mistakes, and you can use me as an example if you want to.

Dr. Tara 4:40

No. Okay. Thanks for having me, first of all. It's an excellent question to start with because I literally just had an hour consult with someone who has achieved a great deal in her young life, and I. said to her previously in the past, when you accomplish your degree, when that happens, savor it. Stay with it. Stay with it longer than you might because people who are high achieving. they reach this goal and then they're on to the next thing and they don't actually absorb or metabolize Or integrate

Allison 5:24

just had this

Dr. Tara 5:25

milestone.

Allison 5:26

huge milestone

Dr. Tara 5:27

And it makes me sad actually, is that they're not actually appreciating their own successes or their own, efforts. They're just on the next thing. And it's, a tricky part of the, of, I think of the mind that we get into that trap.

Allison 5:41

I wanna just breathe through it.'cause I'm thinking we all do that, but why do we do that? Every woman I know is quick to say oh, thanks but what I really needed to do was this. Where does that come from? We can't even take a compliment.

Dr. Tara 5:59

Exactly. I think that comes from conditioning. I think for girls and women, it's very much a How we need to continually prove ourselves over and over again in order to achieve some sort of status or ideal, Whether in a job partner looks, Appearance, friendships, where you live, And it's not our fault. It's not, this is for men too. If they're listening, it's not your fault. We are seeped in a culture, a stew of materialism and consumerism And the bars keep getting raised more and more to the clinic. What more can you do without getting worked out? And that's usually, it out.

Allison 6:42

Yeah. They burn themselves out and then they have to take time because sometimes they're like, I'm just gonna take the weekend. Oh, go crazy.

Dr. Tara 6:51

Right as at 48 hours is really yeah. lifetime.

Allison 6:54

A lifetime, right. Or they have to take a step back'cause they're like, no, my health is suffering. But what I really see is women who are high achieving and men too. But high achieving, and they achieve the thing that they thought they always wanted. They're at the height of their industry or their field. And then not only have they achieved it, but then they fizzle out because then what? Like they've been a perfectionist their whole lives. They've been a high achieving. They've beat themself up. They haven't savored anything. They get to the top and they're like, it's not like WW, but it is what else is gonna drive you if there's nothing else to drive you? Because they've been letting external forces dictate what their success was. And we were talking about this a little offline last night after your book event. And I just find that resonating with me as somebody who reached heights and my first 25 years, or even my first 10 years I was, considered a rising star and then as, a superstar, then whatever. But I never celebrated it. I always thought, oh, I just, this is, I'm just a little me from rural Maryland with my Maryland accent. I can't even say rural. It's hard. But then we achieve these heights and particularly for writers who oftentimes they are at the top of their field, but they don't know the path to writing a book Because it wasn't part of their career path. So as I'm on this, campaign for everyone to think bigger about the ripple effect they can have in the world, I really want you to speak to the person who's achieve the thing they thought they would achieve, but they have more to give. So how do we unlock that?

Dr. Tara 8:58

Unlocking is a good word.

Allison 9:00

I think

Dr. Tara 9:01

what happens, at least in my experience, with high achievers is we actually, our nervous systems to the constant achievement that we don't.

Allison 9:10

Feels

Dr. Tara 9:10

like

Allison 9:11

to

Dr. Tara 9:11

a pause or take a rest

Allison 9:13

us,

Dr. Tara 9:13

or savor, and we

Allison 9:14

we actually disconnect

Dr. Tara 9:16

sometimes from the feelings, from the

Allison 9:18

from the feelings, from the meaning,

Dr. Tara 9:19

the

Allison 9:19

the purpose that got you started

Dr. Tara 9:22

place.

Allison 9:24

I always want

Dr. Tara 9:25

people to

Allison 9:26

to recognize that their

Dr. Tara 9:28

their

Allison 9:29

value has been in their effort

Dr. Tara 9:31

all

Allison 9:31

along and

Dr. Tara 9:32

about what's on the outside, it's what's in the inside. And that gets obscured with being on this treadmill of succeeding.

Allison 9:43

And when it comes to I easy for me to write books I really struggled with that.

Dr. Tara 9:48

I didn't

Allison 9:48

I didn't think I was good.

Dr. Tara 9:49

did I think I Did what I have

Allison 9:50

I have to,

Dr. Tara 9:51

Did it

Allison 9:51

did it even matter?

Dr. Tara 9:52

Would I

Allison 9:53

would I say that would be any different than somebody else who's in.

Dr. Tara 9:55

Than the comparing mind settles in. And we can't help the comparing mind either because that's actually how our brain operates.

Allison 10:02

But when we start to negatively compare ourselves to

Dr. Tara 10:05

To ideals, who have made these,

Allison 10:07

people's rights, life,

Dr. Tara 10:09

We

Allison 10:09

we actually,

Dr. Tara 10:09

their

Allison 10:10

their backstory, which is probably 20

Dr. Tara 10:12

years of really hard work also. So

Allison 10:14

so we forget that.

Dr. Tara 10:16

things

Allison 10:16

actually don't happen that there

Dr. Tara 10:18

There are

Allison 10:19

all these other

Dr. Tara 10:19

out

Allison 10:20

out there,

Dr. Tara 10:21

we might

Allison 10:21

we might be comparing ourselves to the wrong

Dr. Tara 10:23

step.

Allison 10:24

and the trajectory.

Dr. Tara 10:25

like how

Allison 10:26

Like how do you get started on something

Dr. Tara 10:28

without

Allison 10:29

being perfect, without it all figured out?

Dr. Tara 10:32

And that actually

Allison 10:33

Actually,

Dr. Tara 10:33

is a practice of self-compassion. To go back to the

Allison 10:35

SubT.

Dr. Tara 10:36

of my book is you have to actually

Allison 10:40

Really

Dr. Tara 10:41

kind to

Allison 10:41

to yourself along the way because you're doing something that might be new, might feel like

Dr. Tara 10:45

imposter. Those

Allison 10:47

are the thoughts

Dr. Tara 10:48

that often

Allison 10:49

arise,

Dr. Tara 10:50

And

Allison 10:51

to remind yourself that

Dr. Tara 10:53

I'm actually doing something new.

Allison 10:55

it's okay

Dr. Tara 10:56

to be a beginner. And I think high achievers don't like being beginners.

Allison 11:00

High achievers want to, they might be a beginner, but they want an a plus out of the gate. And they like all their ducks to be in a row as well. And so that's why we see procrast to learning And procrast them to get prepared, Which is the worst kind of preparing. I'm organizing so that I'll be organized when oh my God, let's just do it Lord have mercy. No and high achievers they oftentimes, they think that they have to earn the right to do the next thing is what I notice. This is what you'll have to talk me through this. But when they do breakout, unlock their imagined perceived next step of, I'm going to speak at a conference that's not an industry conference, but it's like a global conference. And they realize oh, this was available all along, but there's just no like hierarchical step to that. So, you really have to unlock your own potential. So that you can go for the thing that no one has invited you to. But the invitation is universal, it's ubiquitous, it's available to everyone. So like for you, I'm sure you have colleagues who have not written a book, you decided to write a book, so good on you. That's my point is you're an expert in your field. You are a psychologist at the Harvard counseling center and you have your own private practice and you wrote a book. Because you decided you were going to do that. You didn't wait for someone to say, you've achieved enough. It's now time. So I wanna help other people unlock that. Truth

Dr. Tara 12:50

To

Allison 12:51

to write my first book,

Dr. Tara 12:51

book, which is a kindness I mean, it's not like a heavy topic, but I I had. important meaning behind it. That kind of got my butt in the chair actually, to Actually, writing. and that was that wasn't it actually wasn't about me that the book was actually a message For my daughters people in the community. So, I had to take myself, my ego outta it and remind myself I I have an opinion, I have a perspective, I have something share, and I'm just the channel for it. And there might be other people who have a message. they're the channel For their version of the message. But I have, version, so I had to flip the script Literally, clearly internally that it wasn't about am I gonna do this right? Is this even important? Who do I think I'm say wait minute. I have something that I wanna share And I made it personal in I wanted to leave something behind for my daughters. I thought, oh, drop dead tomorrow. Cheese. Okay. It's a good practice in mindfulness circles. It's actually a good practice This. moment, if this was your day, if this is your week, how would you spend your life? I'll tell you what? You wouldn't be looking at your to-do list. You would be connecting with people. You were to Appreciating people be You would be doing kind and generous acts. So I, my kids were in high school coming to the end of high school. It was a crazy busy time household. And I was like, okay, But the the world was mean.

Allison 14:19

Daughter got beaten up

Dr. Tara 14:20

There was like

Allison 14:21

crazy.

Dr. Tara 14:21

were happening. I was like, wait a minute, what happened to kindness? And that's what got my

Allison 14:25

My first book started. I was like, I wanna look into this a little bit deeper.

Dr. Tara 14:29

With the

Allison 14:29

The perfectionist, the one that just came out.

Dr. Tara 14:32

I I had been working with emerging adults, young people you

Allison 14:37

Who

Dr. Tara 14:37

have

Allison 14:38

been

Dr. Tara 14:39

high achievers,

Allison 14:39

like

Dr. Tara 14:40

for whatever, 18 years.

Allison 14:42

18 years, and here they're,

Dr. Tara 14:43

and

Allison 14:44

and now they have all this

Dr. Tara 14:45

syndrome happening and or really hard on themselves, like internalizing this constant message

Allison 14:52

that you have to keep,

Dr. Tara 14:53

W

Allison 14:53

working hard.

Dr. Tara 14:54

you have to

Allison 14:55

You have to prove yourself constantly,

Dr. Tara 14:57

which

Allison 14:58

which is when I was like, I gotta actually do something.

Dr. Tara 15:00

help

Allison 15:00

help these people. Because I was actually in the same exact position when I was getting my PhD, and so I thought.

Dr. Tara 15:05

okay. The The perfectionists have such great intentions.

Allison 15:10

They

Dr. Tara 15:10

wanna do good things in the world. They They wanna be be productive. There's some sense of, Really wonderful agency. And then they, up, yeah, like but that's the dilemma. And then they suffer. So So in all these wonderful things that. do and the new learning and making some wave in the world, they they beat themselves up along the way. Oh Oh my gosh, Can can you do that without the suffering? So So that was the impetus for the perfectionist alumni is that we don't want to get rid of that striving for excellence. Like that's a really important value. It's important to feel like you're doing quality, meaningful work in the world. But you don't need to suffer as you do it.

Allison 15:52

I'm so moved by that. I feel like everyone needs to hear that feeling that you should have achieved something already is such a way to beat yourself up, especially when you have so much value to provide so much wisdom and kindness to pass on. And what I find about nonfiction authors is that they're driven to help. it's never, oh, I wanna put my stamp on the world like that. look at my fist. for those of you not watching on YouTube, put your stamp on the world looks like you're gonna punch the world that is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about offering something with open hands, like you are offering knowledge and perspective and lessons and steps that people can interpret as their own. But Dr. Tara, if you hadn't written these two books, that would all still be in your noggin and only known by the people who see you professionally and by your peers. And it's too small of a circle. Expanding your ripple effect is what I'm talking about. the good, knock on effect that you can have is so much larger when you write a book. now let me ask this other question, which is about how in a world that glorifies hustle, culture, and perfection, which is just, anything I do the speed of light is actually not perfect. It's always messy and not great. But what is a big shift you've seen recently in the way that people approach their own mental health and growth in that type of, maybe it's a old, I don't know if it's an old perspective, but hustle or your side hustle or you've got to do something, but it has to be perfect out of the gate. Have you seen a shift? God, I hope you have. Please say yes. You know

Dr. Tara 18:06

I'm I'm a yes And the

Allison 18:09

oh.

Dr. Tara 18:09

why I see the shift, there's no yes, but here, but,

Allison 18:12

And the reason

Dr. Tara 18:13

because

Allison 18:13

because I'm in

Dr. Tara 18:14

a

Allison 18:14

almost a privileged

Dr. Tara 18:15

situation of

Allison 18:16

of being

Dr. Tara 18:17

a

Allison 18:17

a clinical psychologist,

Dr. Tara 18:19

that

Allison 18:20

people come to me because they've had this first step of self. Something has happened in their life where they

Dr. Tara 18:27

recognize

Allison 18:28

that

Dr. Tara 18:29

they're,

Allison 18:29

they

Dr. Tara 18:30

need to

Allison 18:30

to make a shift. They might not know.

Dr. Tara 18:32

exactly, but they've had that awareness with high

Allison 18:36

Achievers often,

Dr. Tara 18:36

often, or, and with perfectionist in

Allison 18:39

particularly

Dr. Tara 18:40

That moment of

Allison 18:42

that moment of self-awareness

Dr. Tara 18:43

is

Allison 18:43

is often

Dr. Tara 18:44

because their

Allison 18:45

their body shut down.

Dr. Tara 18:46

They've gotten an illness.

Allison 18:48

For me it was like,

Dr. Tara 18:49

TMJI

Allison 18:50

TMJ

Dr. Tara 18:50

having,

Allison 18:50

having

Dr. Tara 18:51

I was having

Allison 18:52

nerve pain in my

Dr. Tara 18:53

I didn't know what,

Allison 18:54

where that coming from?

Dr. Tara 18:55

whatever, 32 years old, maybe at the

Allison 18:57

Time.

Dr. Tara 18:58

that couldn't

Allison 19:00

tell it to myself, but my body did, and then I.

Dr. Tara 19:04

out why. And the why was because I was on this sort of, that Brene Brown thing, like hustling for worthiness, right? That we

Allison 19:10

Get on this treadmill

Dr. Tara 19:12

of

Allison 19:12

of doing and achieving,

Dr. Tara 19:14

And then

Allison 19:14

and then if we feel productive,

Dr. Tara 19:15

it

Allison 19:16

it means we're worthy.

Dr. Tara 19:17

And

Allison 19:17

And so

Dr. Tara 19:18

we

Allison 19:18

we have to notice that we've been on this

Dr. Tara 19:20

pro

Allison 19:21

productivity treadmill

Dr. Tara 19:23

and

Allison 19:23

and

Dr. Tara 19:24

exhausted

Allison 19:25

ourselves that we're

Dr. Tara 19:26

enjoying what we're doing anymore.

Allison 19:28

so that.

Dr. Tara 19:29

all.

Allison 19:29

Also when people

Dr. Tara 19:30

when people

Allison 19:31

come to me, they're like,

Dr. Tara 19:32

don't

Allison 19:32

I don't think I'm join this.

Dr. Tara 19:34

And

Allison 19:35

And that's a really important moment of recognition

Dr. Tara 19:39

To

Allison 19:40

start to make some shifts in,

Dr. Tara 19:42

and they don't have to be huge ones. They can be small, consistent, subtle shifts to get back into some balance or maybe just cultivate balance for the first time in your life.

Allison 19:55

yeah. Those small, what seems like a small shift. But I told you, and I keep telling people that I read your book and I was like, oh my gosh. I am always, no matter where I am, I'm always prepared to do two other things. If there's even a gap in my attention, like I've got podcasts queued up and I've got my laptop with me and my go Bagg, which, why do I need a Go Bagg? Allison. So you made me notice that I was go Gogo. And when I allowed myself time to drive around and not have a podcast on and actually enjoy the radio silence so that I was like, oh my gosh, I feel so much better. And I was able to observe that there were things on my to-do list that were never gonna get done that weren't interesting or important or urgent, and I could only do that once I gave myself space. Which I had to force myself to take my pile of sticky notes and write them all out in one notebook so I could see them all side by side.'cause I had been carrying around a stack of sticky notes that were all scribbled on for two months. Allison?

Dr. Tara 21:21

so I

Allison 21:22

I wonder,

Dr. Tara 21:23

and we're not gonna do any

Allison 21:23

any therapy, Come on, this is why I do this.

Dr. Tara 21:26

my def, here's my definition of perfectionism. And

Allison 21:29

And whether it's productivity or workaholism, you.

Dr. Tara 21:32

you can give it whatever label you want, but the way that I have come around to defining perfectionism is that

Allison 21:38

It's

Dr. Tara 21:38

the

Allison 21:39

the paradox

Dr. Tara 21:40

created

Allison 21:40

by the need for belonging or the converse,

Dr. Tara 21:44

the

Allison 21:44

the fear of rejection,

Dr. Tara 21:46

paired with

Allison 21:47

with unrealistic expectations for

Dr. Tara 21:49

for

Allison 21:49

achievement

Dr. Tara 21:50

And approval

Allison 21:51

and that,

Dr. Tara 21:52

your energy or life force.

Allison 21:55

yeah. That's what I'm hearing from you is that,

Dr. Tara 21:57

that filling,

Allison 21:58

that time gap

Dr. Tara 22:00

with

Allison 22:00

something to do

Dr. Tara 22:02

is

Allison 22:03

really

Dr. Tara 22:03

the

Allison 22:04

the way that your system,

Dr. Tara 22:05

your

Allison 22:06

mind, body, heart system is.

Dr. Tara 22:08

is trying

Allison 22:09

To

Dr. Tara 22:11

make

Allison 22:11

yourself

Dr. Tara 22:12

feel. Important or

Allison 22:15

or worthy or responsible.

Dr. Tara 22:17

You've

Allison 22:17

you've got Family to take care of

Dr. Tara 22:20

and and at the same time, it's gonna stand up your energy life force. And people will

Allison 22:26

will say that's, alright. That's a little bit out there.

Dr. Tara 22:27

that's why

Allison 22:28

why people come in. Because their

Dr. Tara 22:30

their

Allison 22:30

energy is gone.

Dr. Tara 22:31

It's

Allison 22:31

It's like

Dr. Tara 22:32

they've

Allison 22:33

they've just

Dr. Tara 22:34

Burned the

Allison 22:34

the candle at both ends, and

Dr. Tara 22:37

that's that

Allison 22:38

that awareness status.

Dr. Tara 22:39

I'm burning the candle at both ends.

Allison 22:42

This is just too hard. And now I wanna write a book.

Dr. Tara 22:44

am?

Allison 22:44

I'm because of? What happens is when you don't recognize you're having

Dr. Tara 22:47

this

Allison 22:48

this sort of experience of depletion is the inner

Dr. Tara 22:51

critics will storm

Allison 22:53

right? In with,

Dr. Tara 22:54

with Yeah.

Allison 22:55

yeah. Who do you think,

Dr. Tara 22:56

you are

Allison 22:57

And then we have to be really mindful

Dr. Tara 22:58

that. We

Allison 22:59

we have inner critic narratives

Dr. Tara 23:01

that will

Allison 23:01

will fill in the space

Dr. Tara 23:03

and

Allison 23:03

and then

Dr. Tara 23:03

sabotage

Allison 23:05

Yeah. That inner critic is something that I witness a lot in working with women particularly is that they know that other people see them as an expert. And then they finally find me and they say, am I crazy? is anyone even gonna be interested in this book idea? And you know what I always say is, first of all, you are a big effing deal. And if you are someone who has found this podcast, you also are a big effing deal. Because there are a ton of, you can find your inner writer podcasts and those have their place. But this podcast is about getting some poo done. And if you're writing nonfiction and you are an expert in your field and you feel called to write for sure you should be writing. But their first question is I feel like I should be doing this, but is anybody even gonna care because I'm not the expert. And they'll give me all the reasons why which is so sad, but they think that they're not the cat's pajamas and they are.

Dr. Tara 24:16

But Allison, I was

Allison 24:16

Was exactly in that situation

Dr. Tara 24:18

in

Allison 24:19

20 16, 20

Dr. Tara 24:20

17

Allison 24:21

that I didn't

Dr. Tara 24:22

did I have enough experience

Allison 24:23

college. And

Dr. Tara 24:24

I

Allison 24:24

I

Dr. Tara 24:24

sitting

Allison 24:25

with a

Dr. Tara 24:26

colleague, I.

Allison 24:28

for lunch one day and I said, this is my idea.

Dr. Tara 24:30

And

Allison 24:30

I

Dr. Tara 24:31

almost

Allison 24:31

what

Dr. Tara 24:31

just said, am I crazy to think that I could

Allison 24:33

actually

Dr. Tara 24:34

write an

Allison 24:34

an interesting book about kindness.

Dr. Tara 24:36

isn't it just a no-brainer in life? And she just turned to me and she said, Tara, this is Your your

Allison 24:42

story.

Dr. Tara 24:43

It's

Allison 24:43

It's your version

Dr. Tara 24:45

It

Allison 24:45

it matters.

Dr. Tara 24:46

And

Allison 24:47

And was that little,

Dr. Tara 24:48

of

Allison 24:49

of Yeah,

Dr. Tara 24:50

version of

Allison 24:50

it, that helped me kind

Dr. Tara 24:53

get unlocked.

Allison 24:55

Say something about

Dr. Tara 24:56

this and

Allison 24:56

this and it might seem

Dr. Tara 24:57

but you know what, I bet there is some science about it.

Allison 24:59

lemme go look into it. And that really helped

Dr. Tara 25:01

shift

Allison 25:02

things. That's what I tell people now. I mean there's, everyone's got a story

Dr. Tara 25:05

of

Allison 25:06

of all,

Dr. Tara 25:06

and

Allison 25:06

and many people will say, yeah, I should write book about this.

Dr. Tara 25:09

I'm like. Why don't you like what

Allison 25:11

What would stop you?

Dr. Tara 25:12

And that's

Allison 25:15

where

Dr. Tara 25:15

the

Allison 25:15

inner critics, I.

Dr. Tara 25:17

interesting'cause I have identified inner critics, in my,

Allison 25:19

And all the storytelling that

Dr. Tara 25:21

I've

Allison 25:21

I've heard from

Dr. Tara 25:22

people

Allison 25:22

sitting

Dr. Tara 25:23

from me, there might be

Allison 25:23

be inner judge, right?

Dr. Tara 25:25

of you is who do you think you are? Or there

Allison 25:27

might be the inner,

Dr. Tara 25:28

that says, you

Allison 25:29

you can't do this,

Dr. Tara 25:29

not

Allison 25:30

not

Dr. Tara 25:30

it unless

Allison 25:31

unless you're

Dr. Tara 25:31

your ass

Allison 25:32

off. This is never gonna happen.

Dr. Tara 25:33

That harsh, inner bully.

Allison 25:35

Or there might be

Dr. Tara 25:37

The

Allison 25:37

the doom, right? The detective who just has to research everything. You had mentioned that in the beginning the constant

Dr. Tara 25:42

doing before you even get

Allison 25:43

started

Dr. Tara 25:44

Have,

Allison 25:44

has to leave no stone unturned until you're ready. And

Dr. Tara 25:48

the right there. I work with a lot of those people by the

Allison 25:51

because they're researchers by nature and they can't help research, you know at some point,

Dr. Tara 25:55

no more research,

Allison 25:56

They research and then they need other people to validate because they're used to peer reviewed publications.

Dr. Tara 26:05

There's a lot of

Allison 26:05

Scrutiny. So they have to do everything right, very precise,

Dr. Tara 26:08

and

Allison 26:08

and so they have to keep going over things

Dr. Tara 26:10

over and over

Allison 26:10

over again.

Dr. Tara 26:11

It

Allison 26:11

It's wow,

Dr. Tara 26:12

really a

Allison 26:13

a challenge

Dr. Tara 26:14

to

Allison 26:14

to break out of that sort of internal algorithm

Dr. Tara 26:17

that,

Allison 26:17

gets just cultivated over time.

Dr. Tara 26:20

And then

Allison 26:20

And then there's the

Dr. Tara 26:21

like the nitpicker that

Allison 26:22

that up. Everything nice and neat like you were saying. Oh.

Dr. Tara 26:24

notes and the post-it notes and getting organized. Like I definitely have a very loud inner nitpicker. And even today I was like, oh my gosh, I've got five hours of clients. I'm doing this podcast with Allison. My desk is a mess.

Allison 26:34

mess.

Dr. Tara 26:35

I

Allison 26:35

I need to clean.

Dr. Tara 26:36

and I'm not

Allison 26:36

I'm not gonna feel

Dr. Tara 26:37

clear

Allison 26:38

or energetically available unless I do.

Dr. Tara 26:40

I

Allison 26:40

I just create more of a mess, actually what happens because, yeah. And then there's that

Dr. Tara 26:44

one

Allison 26:45

part that I think

Dr. Tara 26:46

Is

Allison 26:47

there for many high achievers, which is that

Dr. Tara 26:49

which was

Allison 26:50

named by

Dr. Tara 26:51

a student of mine, her

Allison 26:52

inner

Dr. Tara 26:53

thief. And I told her I was adopting that as an archetype

Allison 26:57

Oh yeah.

Dr. Tara 26:58

people who

Allison 26:59

who do not allow themselves

Dr. Tara 27:01

to relax.

Allison 27:03

rest,

Dr. Tara 27:04

play. Find that

Allison 27:06

that space

Dr. Tara 27:06

where actually

Allison 27:08

that space is the birth place and creativity.

Dr. Tara 27:11

We

Allison 27:11

We don't let ourselves to, you

Dr. Tara 27:13

Give those little

Allison 27:13

knows.

Dr. Tara 27:14

that we

Allison 27:15

So we

Dr. Tara 27:16

to

Allison 27:16

have to check ourselves

Dr. Tara 27:16

and then not try to

Allison 27:17

get rid of those parts.

Dr. Tara 27:20

We have to

Allison 27:21

I understand them. Yeah. Because the thing that you think is a no-brainer is mind blowing to everyone else. The thing you think is obvious at, just in general, if you are, if you're listening and you think, doesn't everybody know about kindness? doesn't everybody know about gratefulness? Doesn't everybody know about how to pitch their book? Which I thought as a career marketer and publicist, I'm like pitching any idea has to do with the receiver. Not the, isn't this a good idea, but what is the No, nobody knows the thing that you think is obvious. I'm just thinking of all the authors I work with, They're all asked the same questions. Isn't this obvious? Hasn't this been done before? No, it hasn't. It hasn't been done from your perspective by you in this time. Which is also different. Like the thing that you can't control is now versus a year ago. And nobody knows the book that you think is the end all be all book on the topic that you think that everyone, oh, everybody already has that book. I've never heard of that book and that's always the case. I love pointing out I've, never read Julia Cameron's book on, being a writer and going, Yeah. there are plenty of books that if you're an expert you think, oh, it's already been done. Because everybody knows that. No, they don't. There's always room in people's hearts. And also, even if they have, they do know about whatever the other book is that you as the author think is the thing, what if they don't connect with that author? Because it's not just the book, but they have to trust the voice that's providing it. Yeah.

Dr. Tara 29:14

Yeah, I

Allison 29:14

I always say,

Dr. Tara 29:15

for everybody,

Allison 29:16

You just have to find that somebody

Dr. Tara 29:17

Is.

Allison 29:18

So keep putting yourself out there because your story

Dr. Tara 29:20

you tell it

Allison 29:21

matters.

Dr. Tara 29:21

energy and your, the love that you have to give the world

Allison 29:26

Matters,

Dr. Tara 29:27

And

Allison 29:27

it's a big universe, mean there's 8 billion people in the world,

Dr. Tara 29:31

is gonna be an audience for what you have to say. And

Allison 29:34

and have to.

Dr. Tara 29:35

myself

Allison 29:35

this constantly, like

Dr. Tara 29:36

I do not

Allison 29:37

I do not have this down pat.

Dr. Tara 29:40

So is

Allison 29:41

this is why I go back to

Dr. Tara 29:42

book

Allison 29:42

book Infectious Dilemma

Dr. Tara 29:44

Okay,

Allison 29:44

I thought okay, people don't need a recipe for it.

Dr. Tara 29:47

I

Allison 29:47

I have this method, evolve

Dr. Tara 29:48

really

Allison 29:48

and it really begins actually with present to life

Dr. Tara 29:51

because we

Allison 29:52

because we get still hung up and.

Dr. Tara 29:53

that we actually aren't present to our life

Allison 29:57

To validate how we're feeling

Dr. Tara 29:58

Because another thing that.

Allison 30:00

the

Dr. Tara 30:00

High

Allison 30:00

achievers perfectionists who have like strong inner

Dr. Tara 30:03

or

Allison 30:03

or inner bullies, they

Dr. Tara 30:05

are

Allison 30:05

actually are so in control.

Dr. Tara 30:06

allow themselves to feel.

Allison 30:08

So sometimes I feel like, oh my gosh, we have to do

Dr. Tara 30:10

training and empathy towards ourselves And then to

Allison 30:12

To

Dr. Tara 30:12

befriend

Allison 30:13

those,

Dr. Tara 30:14

that

Allison 30:14

that imposter feelings, to befriend

Dr. Tara 30:16

the

Allison 30:17

the inner critics because

Dr. Tara 30:18

there,

Allison 30:19

there because

Dr. Tara 30:19

they

Allison 30:19

they're protecting

Dr. Tara 30:20

you from some

Allison 30:22

from some perceived danger.

Dr. Tara 30:23

a threat

Allison 30:23

Threaten world. You're

Dr. Tara 30:24

that you're gonna

Allison 30:24

gonna get exposed or

Dr. Tara 30:26

in

Allison 30:26

some way That comes from story long.

Dr. Tara 30:29

Let's help

Allison 30:29

Let's help that part. Heal,

Dr. Tara 30:30

let's

Allison 30:31

Let's help.

Dr. Tara 30:31

up to say, no, you have arrived right now in this moment. So we really need to tend to those inner critical voices and not be mad at ourselves and

Allison 30:39

and

Dr. Tara 30:39

just,

Allison 30:40

Just do it. Because if we could just do it,

Dr. Tara 30:42

We

Allison 30:42

we would,

Dr. Tara 30:43

are

Allison 30:43

yeah. Things that get in the way

Dr. Tara 30:46

we need

Allison 30:46

and we need to take that step back and create the space and community to allow

Dr. Tara 30:52

yourself

Allison 30:52

yourself

Dr. Tara 30:53

grow and do these

Allison 30:54

and these harder things

Dr. Tara 30:55

And be a beginner, be glad to be a beginner in something new.

Allison 31:00

I was gonna ask you that what's a popular tactic that doesn't work anymore, but I think you just hit it. It's the, just surround yourself with people who are doing it and you do it too, but that never works because somebody is always carrying that weight of I don't belong here. Or you do have to address the thing that's keeping you from enjoying the time or pursuing the goal. Mentality or no no pain, no gain or,

Dr. Tara 31:30

grin and

Allison 31:30

and bear, like

Dr. Tara 31:31

those

Allison 31:31

those sort of edicts that are in our culture

Dr. Tara 31:34

are

Allison 31:34

are really problematic. Because

Dr. Tara 31:36

if

Allison 31:37

if we could,

Dr. Tara 31:37

we would,

Allison 31:39

but we don't.

Dr. Tara 31:40

because there's

Allison 31:41

something else that's underneath the mindset, right?

Dr. Tara 31:43

simply

Allison 31:44

this mindset shift of

Dr. Tara 31:46

scarcity to

Allison 31:47

to.

Dr. Tara 31:48

or

Allison 31:48

Fix mindset to a growth mindset.

Dr. Tara 31:50

You

Allison 31:51

You really need to look at the block

Dr. Tara 31:53

that's

Allison 31:54

stopping you from doing something that

Dr. Tara 31:55

you

Allison 31:56

you understand like

Dr. Tara 31:56

we are

Allison 31:57

you're not done. Like we get it. Yeah, just do it. Just go, start that online.

Dr. Tara 32:00

I've been saying to myself for a year, so that's my, just do it this year, but it's really hard, so I

Allison 32:04

I need to understand

Dr. Tara 32:05

like

Allison 32:06

what's

Dr. Tara 32:07

there

Allison 32:07

the block there

Dr. Tara 32:08

And

Allison 32:08

and treat it kindly with curiosity and then figure out maybe what I need is community. Maybe what I need is help. Maybe

Dr. Tara 32:15

It's

Allison 32:15

it's not about just knowing how to do everything from the get go

Dr. Tara 32:19

just dive

Allison 32:20

dive right in

Dr. Tara 32:21

without

Allison 32:22

really having

Dr. Tara 32:24

a

Allison 32:24

a safety net for yourself.

Dr. Tara 32:26

And

Allison 32:26

And so that's where that self-compassion piece comes,

Dr. Tara 32:28

in again, is like

Allison 32:29

like self-compassion

Dr. Tara 32:30

is

Allison 32:31

your own safety net.

Dr. Tara 32:32

for your really

Allison 32:34

Protecting your inner work

Dr. Tara 32:36

your

Allison 32:36

inner sense of

Dr. Tara 32:37

Self. And

Allison 32:39

and we don't often give ourselves

Dr. Tara 32:42

The

Allison 32:42

safety net. And That comes in relationship.

Dr. Tara 32:45

and those parts that are scared. Relationship with other people who may know just a little bit more than us, doesn't have to be the top expert in the world, but maybe someone who's 10% ahead of you. Talk to that person. Get that kind of support, which is what you provide actually in some of

Allison 32:58

Actually

Dr. Tara 32:59

your programs.

Allison 33:00

program, right? It's intended because so many women I work with are like you. They're completely busy and they don't think they have time'cause they are not sure they're going to get a benefit out of something that they have to devote, an hour a month to. But because I am the glue in the next chapter Network, which is a network of high achieving women who are all doing the things, speakers, writers, media contributors, authors they're all doing. A profession as well. They're not just speakers, but they're speakers because they teach at the university or they're seeing patients or they're memoirs sharing a really important experience and insight. But if they're not together, they don't have, they don't have the opportunity for the unexpected learning and the. Unanticipated, surprise collaboration because the, and that's why I love. The the network is because when I see you, you folks together, I'm like, oh, I, you wouldn't even know to get introduced, but I've gotta make the introduction because there's something that's cool there, but it only takes a minute for me to say, Dr. Tara, you need to know, so and so because you're both, this interest in mind or you, but you wouldn't necessarily know that unless someone made the intro and you made time for it. I'm so glad, I'm so glad that we're talking about it.

Dr. Tara 34:52

Yeah. I think,

Allison 34:53

I think just

Dr. Tara 34:54

thing about that piece

Allison 34:55

that piece is

Dr. Tara 34:56

you are

Allison 34:56

what you were

Dr. Tara 34:57

creating in your community and

Allison 34:59

in your community and what women can find communities

Dr. Tara 35:02

own

Allison 35:02

in their own

Dr. Tara 35:03

ways

Allison 35:03

ways

Dr. Tara 35:04

that

Allison 35:04

is that

Dr. Tara 35:05

you

Allison 35:05

you can't learn

Dr. Tara 35:07

or do something

Allison 35:07

If you're playing

Dr. Tara 35:08

you're playing safe.

Allison 35:09

Right?

Dr. Tara 35:10

But you

Allison 35:10

But you also can't do

Dr. Tara 35:11

it

Allison 35:11

it if you're overwhelmed

Dr. Tara 35:12

because

Allison 35:13

because that shuts down

Dr. Tara 35:14

Motivation, but if

Allison 35:16

But if you can find places where you feel safely challenged, that's why I think the

Dr. Tara 35:20

good

Allison 35:21

good stuff happens

Dr. Tara 35:22

is

Allison 35:23

you have to feel safe enough and comfortable that

Dr. Tara 35:26

You can take

Allison 35:28

take those steps forward. You.

Dr. Tara 35:29

It really, it's just like a toddler, right? Parents are gonna make sure that the glass coffee tables are covered and protected, but

Allison 35:36

Let that child roam around, fall on his little, bottom and then stand back up. I, we all need to be safely challenged in those kind of days,

Dr. Tara 35:43

And

Allison 35:43

and that's, I think, where thriving really happens

Dr. Tara 35:46

versus

Allison 35:47

being in that survival mode.

Dr. Tara 35:48

is overwhelm. When we're in overwhelm, we're pretty much

Allison 35:51

Hustling

Dr. Tara 35:52

We're in

Allison 35:53

for in that survival zone. And we're

Dr. Tara 35:54

thriving. And

Allison 35:55

And when we're safe,

Dr. Tara 35:56

we're too

Allison 35:57

we're too complacent,

Dr. Tara 35:58

right?

Allison 35:58

We're in a more, maybe almost more avoidance

Dr. Tara 36:00

that's

Allison 36:01

that's not gonna get us any farther. So we have to find that sort of nice,

Dr. Tara 36:04

A sort

Allison 36:04

Sweet spot of being

Dr. Tara 36:05

challenged. And I think writing

Allison 36:07

are

Dr. Tara 36:08

a

Allison 36:08

complace to do that because

Dr. Tara 36:10

other people

Allison 36:12

who

Dr. Tara 36:12

might

Allison 36:12

might be at the beginning.

Dr. Tara 36:13

they're a little bit farther than you, or they've already done one thing already, and then they

Allison 36:18

You become this amazing resource

Dr. Tara 36:19

for

Allison 36:20

for you to sustain your own really internal motivation. There's always something I think good that can come out of community. But you have to show up for it. You have to make space for it,

Dr. Tara 36:32

community. And

Allison 36:33

and it does have to be the right,

Dr. Tara 36:34

to do the little Goldilocks thing right? It's is this one right or is this one right?

Allison 36:39

right. Because it's maternal feeling like

Dr. Tara 36:42

ugh. It's like a

Allison 36:43

it's a feeling of relief.

Dr. Tara 36:44

this is the right place for me.

Allison 36:46

Right. Dr. Tara, let me pivot and ask you for a book reco. What is a book that you wanna share today?

Dr. Tara 36:56

oh my

Allison 36:56

oh my gosh.

Dr. Tara 36:57

past year I read a couple of really good books. I think my favorite one though is it's a book

Allison 37:02

It's a book of fiction.

Dr. Tara 37:02

called

Allison 37:03

called Wayward, and it's spelled

Dr. Tara 37:05

WEY. WARD, which actually has like a meaning, but you have to read the book for it. But it's by Amelia Hart.

Allison 37:13

It's

Dr. Tara 37:13

really

Allison 37:14

kind

Dr. Tara 37:14

Like witches in a way. Or, energy healers, that go back,

Allison 37:18

you.

Dr. Tara 37:18

a couple centuries and this sort of family line of having this gift of intuition and healing.

Allison 37:25

That's the, that happens along the way.

Dr. Tara 37:26

along the way.

Allison 37:26

As I'm very interested in psychology, energy medicine, so I love any stories

Dr. Tara 37:31

that

Allison 37:31

that are about

Dr. Tara 37:32

these unappreciated

Allison 37:36

gifts of nature,

Dr. Tara 37:37

especially for

Allison 37:39

for women who are,

Dr. Tara 37:39

are intuitive

Allison 37:41

and.

Dr. Tara 37:41

have these sort of intuitive powers of healing.

Allison 37:44

It was a great read and it was first generation.

Dr. Tara 37:47

I

Allison 37:48

Oh, I'm gonna put the link in the show notes. This is my next read. I cannot wait.

Dr. Tara 37:54

yeah I

Allison 37:54

I love,

Dr. Tara 37:55

know when the book came out, but I saw a description

Allison 37:58

I think it was 2023.

Dr. Tara 38:00

maybe.

Allison 38:01

pretty recently.

Dr. Tara 38:02

Yeah.

Allison 38:03

It's a fun

Dr. Tara 38:03

read and I really enjoyed it

Allison 38:04

it and I read it. Wow. That's high praise.

Dr. Tara 38:08

I know.

Allison 38:09

Okay, we will put your book link in the show notes.

Dr. Tara 38:14

Okay.

Allison 38:15

in the show notes if you wanna join. We would love to have you. And before we call this podcast complete, Dr. Tara, what is one thing you wanna leave people with?

Dr. Tara 38:28

I just wanna let

Allison 38:28

I just wanna let people know that they're worthy of love and belonging and that their story matters

Dr. Tara 38:32

we

Allison 38:33

and we need to hear it

Dr. Tara 38:34

hear

Allison 38:34

hear it.

Dr. Tara 38:35

are

Allison 38:35

We're being

Dr. Tara 38:36

So

Allison 38:36

so please

Dr. Tara 38:37

share your

Allison 38:38

your stories.

Dr. Tara 38:39

with the world.

Allison 38:41

Oh, perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you, listener. Wherever you are sitting in carpool. I know you are.'cause that is my life too. We are so glad you're showing up for yourself and sharing this. Do your friends a solid. If this podcast, someone who needs to hear Dr. Tara's message, stop right now. Put your car in park. Make sure you're not gonna roll over a elementary school kid and share it. Just send it to someone who needs it, because the way that we can help people is to share what we know. Otherwise they're never gonna know, and you're never gonna remember later. So do it now. It helps people also find us when you leave a review, leave a five star review. It helps the algorithm and the infrastructure and the matrix. Show the podcast to people who need it. So thank you. I will see you next week.