Author's Edge: the Go-to Marketing Podcast in Publishing
Clear, honest insight on publishing, platform growth, and becoming the kind of author people pay attention to.
Each week, I break down what actually works in the book world—with unfiltered solo episodes and conversations with the people behind the scenes: literary agents, publishers, and bestselling authors… plus world-class marketers, business coaches, speaker mentors, and platform strategists.
Author's Edge: the Go-to Marketing Podcast in Publishing
How to Turn Life Experience Into a Book Deal (at Any Age) with Lori Hellis | Ep. 68
Is it ever too late to write your book and get published? Lori Hellis proves it’s not.
Allison Lane and Lori Hellis explore how she transitioned from a career in law to becoming a recognized voice in the true crime genre with a successful book launch, a thriving YouTube channel, and a dedicated readership. You’ll hear how she reverse-engineered her author marketing strategy, secured a publishing deal fast, and built visibility without waiting for permission.
If you’re wondering how to launch a book, grow your audience, or get published after 60, this episode is your blueprint.
What You’ll Learn:
- How Lori used her legal background to create a compelling true crime brand
- The fastest path to getting a nonfiction book published without hundreds of queries
- Why community (and not just content) can drive your visibility
Resources Mentioned:
- Lori Hellis website: https://www.lorihellis.com/
- Lori Hellis’ book: Children of Darkness and Light Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell: A Story of Murderous Faith: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781639367108
- Connect with Lori on YouTube - Chasing Justice: https://www.youtube.com/@ChasingjusticewithLori
- Book Reco: An Unfinished Love Story: A Personal History of the 1960s: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781982108663
- Book Launch Bootcamp: https://www.lanelit.com/
Timestamps:
04:12 – How Lori’s divorce book unexpectedly launched her publishing career
15:47 – The legal case that turned into a bestseller
28:03 – Why your niche expertise is your biggest author asset
37:15 – How Lori built a true crime platform in just 3 months
44:59 – The #1 mistake aspiring true crime authors make
56:02 – What authors really need to know before their book launch
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Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs07oP_QedM
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step out, take the risks. The worst you're going to hear is no. And we've all heard that before and we all survived hearing no. But every once in a while, you hear yes. And that makes it all worth it.
Allison:Welcome back to the Author's Edge. We are talking so much about opening doors for ourselves, and sometimes means opening your mind to what's next, especially when your encore career turns out to be some of the most meaningful steps you've ever taken. Todays's traded the courtroom for her laptop keyboard, launching a YouTube channel, and doing this in retirement that unexpectedly grew into a book deal. And her book is such a superstar. If you've ever wondered if it's too late to write a book, Lori Hellis is proof that your next chapter is just waiting and it might be your very best one. So welcome, welcome, Lori. I'm so glad to see you. And I love that we match. If you're watching on YouTube, you see that this happens all the time where everybody shows up. I'm like, did we plan this? We did not.
Lori:Hey, how are you?
Allison:I am doing great. I'm in Boston and it is mid-July. No, it's mid-June. Oh my gosh. What is wrong with my head? It is mid-June, a week ago, we were wearing coats Today, it is too hot to be outside. Boston is so unreliable and inconsistent. But where you are, the Pacific Northwest, it's like, cool in the evening and warm during the day. It sounds perfect. I'll be right there. I'm headed to the airport right now.
Lori:Hey, I'll make up the guest room.
Allison:Yeah. I would love it. Let's talk about your book, Children of Darkness and Light and how that came to be. So, can you just walk us through that and how you got interested in writing about True crime when first book was the No Nonsense Guide to Divorce. Sort of a left turn, but maybe it makes sense. So, walk us through everything.
Lori:So, for nearly 30 years, I practiced family and criminal law. Did a lot of criminal defense work, worked as a public defender. At one point, I worked as a prosecutor, so I had a lot of experience in that realm. So, when my daughter went to college, I was sort of trying to figure out what I was going to do next and decided that I would go back to school and get a Master's in Fine Art in creative writing. Because I knew that I wanted the next chapter to be writing. I've always been a writer. But I didn't have anything law related or crime related on my radar. When people would ask me, oh, you're going to write crime thrillers? I'd be like, no, that's not on my agenda. So, after I retired, I heard about this case, this really crazy case. And the time I heard about it I thought, you know, it's like my criminal defense, spidey senses went off. You know, I'm like, this is not at all what it seems. And the deeper I got into following it, the more I thought, this is not what it seems. So, I was right in the throes of finishing this book on divorce. After I retired, I thought, what is the thing that I can get published quickest so I can get my name out there? And you know, it doesn't have to be a house of fire, but I need a published book. So, I wrote this book about about how to get divorced if you're a millennial and it's called the No Nonsense Guide to Divorce. I was right in the throes of finishing up that book and I mean, that was sort of a crazy story anyway. Allison, and you and I met because we were taking a seminar on how to write book proposals. And so, I thought, I'll just send this out to a few agents and see if I'm on the right track, you know, maybe get a little feedback. And so, I sent to 10 agents. And out of the 10, I got three that were interested. So I went with a guy who was not the biggest or most important, but I just liked him. He had a good vibe and he was just a good fit. So, we took on the divorce book. It was just finishing up. When I reached out to him and said what would you think about true crime? He was a little bit skeptical at the beginning. But I wrote the proposal and I sent it to him, and when he got ahold of it, he was like, oh yeah we have to do this. So, fortunately, it sold in about three weeks and we were off to the races. Unfortunately, the trial hadn't happened yet, and there were many delays. I have to say that the publisher was very understanding about how many delays we had. So, we finally got through all the trials. I literally pushed send on the manuscript after writing the last two paragraphs the day that Chad Debell was sentenced. The book came out a year last September, and it's just been hit in the ground ever since. So, you and I talked about it. I did your marketing seminar on how to book launch bootcamp, I think. And it was super.
Allison:Yeah. The Book Seller Launch School, which is nobody knows how to launch a book unless you do which I do. And it way, way back. This is og, this is before I even started the Facebook community, and I was seeing you who are like, I have this pitch. You know, we are peers. Can everybody take a look at it before it goes out? And I don't remember like spending too much time and I think you probably shared it in that group. And everything that happened for you happened really quickly. Usually, when people query agents or publishers, the average wait time is three months. They say to 12 weeks, it's three months it. You receive feedback right away in your first round of querying. So not only did you have a singular view and understanding of what first book was going to be. But the second book, and we'll have to get into the actual true crime in a second. You really understood how to market it, not just how to relay the story of this horrific instance of violence. When you put together the proposal for either of those, you're so cash about it now. But usually people are on like biting their nails and I hope somebody gets back to me because it feels like when you're querying, you're like putting it out into the world. And is it a black hole? Will it come back to you? I think you always had confidence like, I know my poo. I know that this is out there and it will find the right place. Is that how you saw it?
Lori:Well, I think so. And I think it's because the law is my niche. I know the law and so I had some built in street cred because of that. But I think some of it was just pure ignorance. I was such a novice that I had no idea that people send to a hundred agents before they get one. I was just going on what little information I knew at that point, because it's a pretty steep learning curve.
Allison:Yeah, it is. Publishing is hard to figure out and there's no, get published 1 0 1 that you could just take and get in it in an afternoon. Although, I will take that on. I will create, get published 1 0 1 and do it in an afternoon so people don't have to guess or listen to all my podcast episodes back to back. Although if you do, please drop me a line because I want to know who you are. So, let's talk about this case and how it started to get hooked in your mind of what is this about? because you were not writing true crime, you were not thinking about it, but you moved to a town in Utah, Arizona.
Lori:Arizona. Yeah.
Allison:Tell us what you observed and how you got hooked in.
Lori:When I retired for quite a few reasons, I decided that we needed to move. We needed to not shovel snow during the winter. I needed to be out of the community where I was so connected to my colleague that I was worried that I would never be able to really retire because I love those people and I would see them overloaded with work and I would think, oh, I'll just take a couple of cases, just relieve the pressure. And so I was really worried that I wasn't going to be able to cut those ties. We moved from Central Oregon to Mesa, Arizona, which is suburban Phoenix. And in the community right next door to us in Gilbert. This very odd incident happened, and I was just listening to the news one night. This young reporter was talking about the fact that this really weird case had happened. A case where it was alleged that this woman's brother shot and killed her husband in an act of self-defense. And then, three weeks later, she disappeared off the face of the earth with her two children. Nobody knew where she was. Nobody had any contact with the children, and it was just a really weird case. And definitely one of those were. When I was thinking about it and listening to it, it didn't make sense to me. My experience with criminal law, I would just this doesn't add up. Something's weird here. So, I started following it. Then I discovered that there was a Facebook group that was following the case. And so I joined that and then people started asking questions. She was found, she was in Hawaii, the children were still missing. And they were extraditing her back to Idaho where she had moved. And people were asking questions and they were legal questions. And time I would answer them, I would have to add to the post all the reasons why I knew what I was talking about. I had to always list my bonafides. And I got tired of it. So, I thought, what the heck? I'll just start a little newsletter, blog about the legal issues in the case. So, asked permission from the Facebook group, if I could just let people know that I had this blog and I was excited When I had 200 subscribers, I was like, wow, I had idea. That's how it got started. I got invited on a YouTube channel by another creator and to talk about the case, and that led to me starting my own YouTube channel. So, I have a small YouTube channel that does true crime with a very sweet and devoted following.
Allison:Small, but I remember you saying really I just get on the YouTube channel. We go live on Friday nights. We talk about what happened in the case.
Lori:Right.
Allison:During the week, and suddenly you had 8,000 followers.
Lori:That's true.
Allison:8000 subscribers. That's not small. That's 8,000 people who didn't just watch, but they clicked subscribe.
Lori:Right.
Allison:They're fascinated.
Lori:In the law tube creator's sphere, 8,000 is a drop in the bucket. There are several of the YouTube creators that have 120,000 half a million subscribers. To me it's small, but I love the community. I love being able to talk to people who are interested in cases and interested in the legal aspects of the case. I've always enjoyed teaching, so I like being able to things down for people and explain stuff. So, it's great fun. And so, Wednesday nights I spend a couple of hours with my pals and we talk true crime.
Allison:Goodness. So, it's not overnight, it's that it started with a Facebook group. You became prominent inside the group because your street cred is undeniable. And you started a newsletter so you could just brain dump in it without having to answer everyone's questions, onesie, twosies. And then that led to a YouTube channel. And all of this happened in the course of a couple months. I remember.
Lori:Yeah. Yeah, it did. And then yeah, about three months I think.
Allison:Super quick.
Lori:At that point I was already talking to my agent about a book and on a book proposal. Yeah.
Allison:But then just spoiler alert, the end of the story is that the woman who was extradited turns out, just go ahead and tell the of the case because it's.
Lori:So part of part of the case, that was interesting to me is that she was deeply involved in a faction of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints a very sort of fundamentalist faction. And we all know that there are spinoffs outside of the LDS church, like the FLDS and Warren Jeffs and all those people. What was interesting about this is a group that's in the mainstream church. So that was really interesting, but they're very much believers in doomsday and dark and light spirits and that spirits can inhabit people. And she claimed that evil spirits, it had conveniently inhabited First her fourth husband, Charles Vallow. And then her two children who she didn't really have time for because she was busy being a goddess and the leader of the 144,000 with her new Sweetie Chad Daybell. The children's bodies were found about six months later when the ground thawed in Idaho in Chad Daybell's backyard. Yeah. They also murdered Chad Daybell's first wife. Yeah.
Allison:Yeah. A lot of people were I mean, just want to show the cover because it's just even a haunting Children of Darkness and Light, Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell, A story of murderous Faith. And I love this cover and I'm so impressed that you were able to become the expert voice of the all entire case. Now, when pivoting a little bit when you see people, and I'm sure people come to you now, I think I'd like to write. When you see people who are trying to make you know, a pivot when it comes to perhaps, writing true crime and now you're seeing a lot of them because you went to Crime Con and you were, you know rubbing elbows with a lot of people.
Lori:Right.
Allison:What do you see people doing that helps, and what's a common mistake that people make when they really want to dig into something?
Lori:I think that people look at the massive information that's online and think, oh, I can just mine all of that information find out what really happened. And there's a lot of inaccuracies and a lot of online content. So, you really have to do your own research. Relying on somebody else and what's out there on the internet might not be the most reliable way to write a true crime book. Although, there are a couple of authors who do that. And there are a couple of books out about the Vallow case that have a lot of inaccuracies in them as a result. Don't be fooled into thinking you can just go out and mine the internet for a book. You really have to do the legwork.
Allison:And you were in the courtroom, you were there every day.
Lori:Yeah. Both trials.
Allison:unfold. Yeah.
Lori:Trials. And I actually moved to Idaho for two years while I was writing the book. I don't necessarily recommend following your subject matter around. But it worked for us. So yeah.
Allison:So, your book explores the collision of mental health and religious extremism and also this feeling of maybe misperception of safety amongst your neighbors. And when your book was set to come out, we talked a little bit about how to elevate this conversation. So, it's not about this one case, it's how the guy across the street, kids, like how well do you know him. And how it's the responsibility of a community to know, and set the standard. And can you talk a little bit about that and how you've seen or experienced your opportunities open up to talk, not just about the case, but these themes?
Lori:Yeah, I do think that as after the book came out, and as I've done some of the marketing book tour sort of things. You do see people saying, this could have happened in my community. This isn't an isolated event.
Allison:Yeah.
Lori:Both Mesa, Arizona and Rexburg, Idaho have large LDS populations, Rexburg, Idaho, the statistics are that about 20, about 96% of the population that live in Rexburg are members of the LDS Church. So, there's that sense that this could happen in my community because these people who I will tell you, living in Mesa the people who were part of the LDS church were some of the best neighbors you could ever have. They're lovely people. And I think there was this sense of, it was a shock for them to know that these people were living in their own community and in the cultural bubble of the church. But for the non-believing population was like, oh, I don't know these people who seem on the outside, very kind and very active in the community. What do I really know about my neighbors? So, I think there definitely was a version of that. There definitely was a layer of that in people's comments.
Allison:Yeah. I'm sure you got into it a crime con. I just would love to hear all of your insights.
Lori:Oh my goodness.
Allison:Oh, I'm sure you had a ton of epiphanies when you were there and seeing, the authors and the speakers and the podcasters and such. When you consider all that you've achieved now and this very visible voice that you now have. Would you do anything differently? And what lesson have you learned from all of this?
Lori:You know, I'm not sure. I would do too much differently. I might not have moved to Idaho. It wasn't my favorite place in the world to live. But outside of that, I'm not sure that I would have done things differently, I think because it's a learning process no matter how old you are, and no matter how experienced you are when you venture into a new area, it's just a learning experience. And I just happen to be one of those people who is chronically curious and who loves learning new things. So, taking on something new and exciting and figuring it out. I enjoy doing that. But I'm not sure looking back on it that I I wanted to get out there with a book before the trial started because I felt like, I would be batting cleanup if I didn't. So, the fact that it took another two years to finally write the book because of all the delays that sort of comes with that territory. Yeah, it's been a really fun, really exciting adventure moving out of what was comfortable for me for 30 years and into something that's really new and exciting and different.
Allison:And people call it retirement, but you are certainly not moonwalking into the shadows. You're like, I hate the word retirement because it makes me think of people like shrinking. And that's not you at all. In fact, you are really stepping forward and thinking of what's next.
Lori:Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny because when I announced I was going to retire from law practice, I don't think that anybody who knew me thought for one minute that I was going to be sitting around eating bon bons and watching soap operas. It's just not me. So I don't think anyone who really knows me was super surprised that I launched into something in a different vein. So
Allison:Yeah.
Lori:You mentioned Crime Con this year. Crime con for the uninitiated who aren't in the true crime community is this huge convention that happens every year for people who are big true crime followers. And it usually features whatever cases are at the top of everyone's mind and brings in lots of speakers, both people who are creators as well as people who are in some way involved in victims of crime or being lawyers who have prosecuted or police investigations. And it draws every year the crowds just multiply. So this year it's in Denver the second weekend in September. And the book has been nominated for their Clue Award. So, I'm really excited about that. They nominate five books, so we'll see what happens in September. But it was it was really a big honor. Thanks. It was fun.
Allison:So huge. So huge. So you have said before that you wish you started sooner, but you were a busy court attorney.
Lori:Yeah.
Allison:Do you still think that you should have you wish you could have started sooner or do you actually wish that you started sooner?
Lori:I wish I could have started sooner, I think. Everything that you think about those things is all done colored with hindsight and being able to look back and think, oh man yeah, I coulda, I would've, I should've. And that's not life, that's just not true life. True life is that things happen as they're meant to unfold. Yeah, part of me that thinks, man, I could be much further ahead if I had started earlier, and you get to a stage in your life where you're thinking, okay, so how many more years do I have to be keeping doing this? I don't make any secret of the fact that I'm facing the big seven oh, next year. And so, I just think, okay how much more time am I going to invest in this? And do I have it ahead of me to do it? And I think, oh gosh, if I'd only started 10 years earlier, but the reality is that it's super exciting and it's just added a lot to my retirement life and thrilled about it. I have a new project that I'm not necessarily ready to announce yet, but is super exciting and it's definitely energized me. It's another true crime book. I feel like I had one more story I really wanted to tell and then we'll see. But I'm really excited about the direction it's going and by the fall I think we're going to have some really interesting developments, so.
Allison:Oh, I can't wait to hear. As someone who's just observed your rise and your achievement, what strikes me is that you take action. You see an opportunity, even like in the Facebook community, you're answering people's questions and you just thought. You know what? I'm just going to consolidate this into a newsletter. You didn't say that I can start a YouTube channel and that can lead to some, you just the one natural progression, but you saw an opportunity. And honestly, that was probably easier for you to consolidate your thoughts in a newsletter than to answer everyone's question at a time. So, when i'm just talking to the person who's listening, who's thinking, I wonder what I would do. You can't plot that out. You might hope for the end result, but it's certainly hard to see what the third step will be until you take the first step. Even in the game shoots and ladders, you don't know if you're going to hit a ladder or a shoot. And so you can't see the next step until you take the step in front of you, but you do have to take a step.
Lori:That's right. I had a dear friend that was my law school bestie. And she was very involved in the recovery community. And the recovery community has a saying. They say, you just suit up and show up and let God do the rest. And that's been my philosophy for a long time. I get up in the morning and I would put on my lady lawyer clothes and the person who needed me would walk through the door. And I have done the same thing with this journey. I'm present and I am available, and I know that the doors are going to open. The important thing is you got to take the step and walk through them. And if it's something as simple as reaching out to the people in the Facebook group and saying, Hey, would you mind if I told people about this newsletter? You know, that was really, the beginning of it was saying, I think the other thing was that I wasn't saying subscribe to my newsletter, pay me. It was just I'm just going to be one lawyer out there posting some random thoughts about this crazy case. And if you're interested as interested in it as I am, then here's some info. And it definitely grew quickly. Now, the true crime, the genre of true crime has exploded. It's incredibly popular and over the last five to seven years there's really been a big uptick in people's interest in it. And I put that down to the availability of podcasts and YouTube shows where people
Allison:Sure
Lori:can tune in at their leisure. Yeah. But it was a combination of being in the right place at the right time and walking through the doors that got opened up. Yeah.
Allison:Yeah. And taking the step. Similarly, this podcast was not on my mind until we were in that seminar together. And then I opened up Facebook community where it was just so that we could stay in touch. It didn't have a mission. But after a few get togethers, people were joining and they all had the same questions. And they were all about how to pitch an agent, can somebody look at my pitch letter? And I would say, share it. You know what, send it to me and I'll revise it live while we're all talking. And then that person would come back the next week and say, I used it and I got an agent emailed me right back. Yeah, of course they did, because I am a expert marketer.
Lori:Right.
Allison:Then that turned into me being proactive about it, like similar to you of I'll just do weekly workshops on how to pitch or what your bio should look like. Because everyone's bio is so dull. How to choose comps and that broaden your sales opportunity. How to customize your outreach to a publisher or an agent and what to say and what words to remove so that you're really being efficient. Because any pitch letter to media, to an agent, to a publisher. You have to care about those words as much as a poet would. It's really a reduction sauce of your awesome book idea or your awesome article idea, but there's no room for extra words.
Lori:Very true.
Allison:Yeah.
Lori:And especially when you're pitching to someone who's reading hundreds of them.
Allison:Yeah. Every query gets one minute.
Lori:Yeah. And
Allison:then next. Yes.
Lori:Yeah.
Allison:And then after a while everyone went back to real life. So I said, you know what? I'm going to do this podcast. I'm going to close the Facebook community because people are just weren't going to Facebook communities now. And this allows me to reach so much more people, so many more. I think that's just a natural progression. It was not my intent. When I first got started, I simply thought, got street cred here and I should be, how could I sit by when someone's idea is so good? All they need is to hone it, or they need to know how to pitch media so they can have a couple bylines so that the publisher will see that they are indeed a leading voice. Because sometimes you have to judge your street cred a little to have something recent. And then all of those things worked.
Lori:Well, I think it's just, it's a need. There's a need out there that you saw and wanted to fill. And it's been incredibly helpful. The book Launch Bootcamp was very helpful for me. Children of Darkness and Light came out with Pegasus Books and they do some marketing and there is a public, I do have a publicist. But they can't do it all. And I felt like getting ahead of doing the things that you suggested, getting all the materials ready for my book launch meant that they could be more efficient with their time. They weren't having to create the author bios and the excerpts, all of those things.
Allison:Questions. Here's a list of podcasts that I should be on because you will be asked for all of that.
Lori:Right.
Allison:When you're launching your book. Who should we reach out to? And they look to you. And oftentimes, you don't want to not have an answer for that. What is your marketing plan?
Lori:Knowing ahead of time what to expect the questions that they were probably going to ask me. And being able to have thought through all those things and being able to say, here, let me just send you this. Your templates were absolutely, wonderful. And I couldn't have done it without them. It was absolutely well worth the investment. And I also loved the other women who were involved in that particular bootcamp and found them really interesting. And so the whole experience was so good. And anybody who's thinking about launching a book, definitely that was time and money well spent.
Allison:Thank you. I think one point that you made is that the community matters. Anybody can take an online course, but.
Lori:Sure.
Allison:When it's live and there's community and you know you're going through it with other people who are doing the same thing that you are. Boy, you really need that. Even if it's just two or three people out of the whole court. You really need that. And then all these collaborations ensue of like cross-promoting. And you have a podcast, why don't you come on my podcast and we'll swap and introductions. That wouldn't have happened unless you dig in. So, it's not just, Hey, can I have your methods?
Lori:Right. It was super fun. I was invited to the Tucson Festival of Books and when I got there, I met in person, one of the women that had been in the book launch seminar. And that was super fun. It was exciting. And we were able to go, oh, yeah, really fun.
Allison:I know online friends become in real life friends, like ta-da.
Lori:That's been the way it's been with the true crime community as well. There is a group of a subset of YouTube called Law Tubers. And they all tend to show up at Crime Con. And so, you get to meet in person people that you've been talking to for months and years online. And yeah, those are fun opportunities.
Allison:Awesome. Well, let me pivot because I always ask, what is a book you want to make sure that people are reading other than yours? Which I just dropped again, but Children of Darkness and Light, you got to get it. What's a book you love?
Lori:I have to quickly make sure I get the title right. Because I want to do the book justice. So it is I got to look it up on my book list. Doris Kearns Goodwin, of course, I can't spell.
Allison:Wasn't it?
Lori:Kearns Goodwin an unfinished love story is probably one of my favorites right now. She of course has been a political historian for all of my life, and maybe it just resonates to me because she met her husband. And her personal history related to the sixties and seventies. And that's my era. Maybe that's part of it, but I love the story. It's the story of she and her husband, both very well known political operatives and political historians and going back and looking at the sixties and seventies by going through the boxes that he had kept for all those years of his own personal files and going back through them that nixon era and the post Nixon post Watergate era, really interesting. I've always found her interesting anyway, and I recommend that one.
Allison:Yeah. I love her. She used to show up on the John Stewart the Daily Show. The favorite episodes.
Lori:Yeah.
Allison:And she would just come in there with her readers on. And so surprising of such a big personality with a little lady cardigan. Loved her.
Lori:Yeah. She is just very unapologetically who she is and I appreciate that.
Allison:Yeah. All right. Before we call this podcast complete, what's one thing that you want to leave people with?
Lori:I would say, do all the things. Take the steps, take the risk. Say about my 38 year of marriage, it works because my husband is the less risk averse person who's always pulling me back and saying, maybe we better look at this again. And I'm always the person on the precipice with my toes hanging over the edge. But I would say step out, take the risks. The worst you're going to hear is no. And we've all heard that before and we all survived hearing no. But every once in a while, you hear yes. And that makes it all worth it.
Allison:I can't think of anything better. That was so powerful. Ooh, full body chills. Lori, thank you for being here. And thank you for putting in the time while you're in traffic to listen to this and open the door to your next move. All you have to do is step forward. Just one step, do what Lori says. Do what Lori did. It's really up to you. If you get a no, that's not a no from everyone. It's a no from that situation. Turn left or right. There's an open door somewhere, so take it. And do as a solid, send this to someone you like who needs maybe the shove through the door, a loving shove. Through the tour. And give us a review. It tells the algorithm, Hey, people like this, and it shows the podcast to other people. And this is an act of passion for me. And I want to make sure that people get access to the inspiration that can help them take that move and take that step. So, thank you for being here. I'm Allison Lane, as always, your literary Sherpa, your chaperone, and I'm here for you. Until next time.
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