Journey to Well
We are not created to do this healing journey or life alone. In fact, it was Bessle Van Der Kolk who expertly shared “healing happens in the presence of an empathic witness”. That is the heart of this podcast & my business : to witness. You can expect a plethora of conversations on nervous system regulation, breathwork, human design & astrology, cycle alignment, energy & spirituality work and so much more. We are all on a journey back home to ourselves, rediscovering our innate power within & I am thrilled to take this journey to well with you. be well xx
Journey to Well
Empowered Relationships : A Therapist's Radical Approach to Growth | Jordanne Sculler, LMHC
When it comes to navigating relationships, we often fall into the trap of focusing on what others should change rather than examining our own patterns. Therapist & 6/2 emotional MG, Jordanne Sculler challenges this mindset with her refreshingly direct approach to therapy that prioritizes accountability and self-awareness.
Jordanne shares the powerful moment that transformed her career trajectory, explaining why she believes the most effective therapy happens when we're willing to look in the mirror rather than point fingers. She unpacks the delicate balance between taking responsibility for our part in relationship dynamics and recognizing when our efforts aren't being matched by others.
"We cannot change anyone else," Jordanne emphasizes, offering instead a transformative question that can shift our entire perspective: "Will I be okay if this relationship doesn't work out?" The answer, she notes, is almost always yes – a simple but profound realization that can free us from staying in uncomfortable situations simply because they're familiar.
The conversation explores how making small changes in our typical responses – doing something different – can dramatically alter relationship patterns that have felt stuck for years. Jordanne explains why learning to sit with discomfort is essential for growth, and how developing this skill in safe contexts prepares us for more challenging moments in our key relationships.
Whether you're struggling with setting boundaries, feeling unsatisfied in a relationship, or simply wanting to understand yourself better, Jordanne's practical wisdom offers a roadmap to greater self-awareness and more fulfilling connections. Her parting message sums up her approach perfectly: "Do something different" – an invitation to take that first step toward positive change today.
Connect with Jordanne https://www.jordannescullerlmhc.com/ or on IG @jordannesculler
Let's connect on social media! You can find me @ _journeytowell
Be sure to reach out and say hello 🤍
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be well, my friend
xx Hannah
Hello, welcome back to the podcast Journey to Well. So today is one of my favorite days because we get to talk to a therapist and you know, that I love all things therapy, all things relationships. So today I'm joined with Jordan Scholar. She's a licensed therapist, relationship expert, also a 6'2 emotional mani-gen, so you know we'll throw in some human design in there. It is so good to have you on the podcast, jordan. Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2:I am so happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I would love for you to kind of introduce yourself. What brought you to where you are today? Maybe your pre-therapy journey? And then how? How you're doing today?
Speaker 2:Definitely, definitely. So I always knew I wanted to be a therapist, but I totally thought it was going to be a second career path for me. For whatever reason, I was like I am going to do this after I have kids, you know, maybe when my kids are in college. I just always saw it as a later in life passion of mine.
Speaker 2:And after graduating from college I worked in marketing for about a year and then I went through a little bit of a traumatic experience with my family and after going through that, I had this moment where I said my family, and after going through that, I had this moment where I said I need to do it now. I need to do what I know will fulfill me in the way that, um, I had so clearly pictured for myself in the future. So pretty instantly I quit my job and I started figuring out what it was going to take to get into school. Um, and the rest is history. I started my program, began working as a therapist and I started my own private practice three years ago. So it has been a journey, but it has been a wonderful journey.
Speaker 1:I love that you always wanted to be a therapist. I feel like I've not heard that before, so I really love that. It's such a passion of yours. I think that's what makes a good therapist is someone that actually loves what they're doing and is really passionate about helping people and relationships. So I'm curious what is your? Do you do couples therapy? Mostly one-on-ones.
Speaker 2:Both. I definitely do both and I love both work. It's so interesting how different couples therapy versus individual therapy can be, and I always say that the strongest couples therapy work happens when both individuals in the couple are in their own individual work as well. So obviously that takes a whole lot, but the most successful and productive couples work happens when individuals are able to really look at themselves in the mirror, which obviously can be done more so in individual work. So I think it's that beautiful combo that makes for successful couples work, and I absolutely love working with individuals as well.
Speaker 2:I'm definitely a bit of a challenging therapist, so when I say that, especially with individuals, I really provide a lot of pushback and challenge so that we have this ability to look at ourselves in the mirror and look at where am I coming into play here, rather than pointing fingers at the people around us. I think it's so, so, so important in therapy to be able to look at your own agency. That way we can really create these little shifts moving forward that help us live the life that we want to be living, I think one of the things that we want to be living.
Speaker 1:I think one of the things, one of the questions that I get or I hear, not that I get, get them personally a lot, but I hear kind of floating around when people are considering therapy is how do I know who is a good therapist for me? And I would love your input on this and you to answer the question. But one of the things that I always say is know what kind of therapist you want, because there's some therapists that are more affirming and maybe nurturing kind of like. I'm imagining more that like feminine or masculine energy, not the male or female therapist, but more maybe more affirming and and nurturing and kind of just agreeing with what you're saying and listening to you. And then there's therapists that are really here to challenge you and really here to help you see a different perspective, which I think is one of the biggest benefits of therapy. But I'm curious, yeah, if you would answer that question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with you. Right, there's different, there's different types of therapists, and I think something that's so important to think about is what type of therapist is right for you at different points of your life, right, cause that can change. At some points you might need that more validating, affirming therapist who's just kind of coddling, maybe a little bit more nurturing, and at other points you might really need that push, that challenge. The other thing that I think is so imperative in picking a therapist is it's so simple, but the vibe that you get right, how you and your therapist vibe together, has a huge, a huge importance in the success of the work. And when I say success, I really just mean in your willingness to be there and to do the work. So the relationship you have with your therapist, where you can feel really heard and understood and safe, goes off of the vibe. That's really where that starts.
Speaker 1:So I would say just having that as like this basic, simple rule is also a really helpful tool in finding the right therapist for you and, I think, not being afraid of trying a couple ones, because all of my friends that I talk to they're always just like yeah, I just kind of started with the first one because I didn't know that I could therapist shop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Whenever I have a consultation with someone, I always encourage them or I guess I'm always pleased when I hear they're shopping around, because that means they're really have this willingness to want to do the work with the right therapist for them and they're not just willing to settle and if it doesn't feel right, move on. Right, it's okay, it's really okay to do that. And your therapist, I promise you will understand.
Speaker 1:Yeah kind of like friendships, right whenever we're trying to. If you meet a new person and you don't vibe with them and you're like, okay, we're just not going to hang out anymore, and then you meet that person that you really love hanging out with and spending time with, makes sense to me not everyone can be a match.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, not ever. Yeah, not everyone is going to Um. So let's dive into that. Uh, more assertive, more assertive way of approaching therapy and having a therapist like yourself. I'm curious, first of all, why that is your specific approach.
Speaker 2:That's a great question, um. I had a therapist um who challenged me and it was something I was so unprepared for. This was years ago this was before I was a therapist, um but it was such moving work that at times I couldn't even handle. In fact, I walked away from it at a time and then, I believe it was like six months to a year later, I had this epiphany and I was like I need to go back to this therapist, I'm ready for it, I get it now and my life completely changed.
Speaker 2:I think it's really when a therapist has the ability to help you realize how much control you have in the changes you can make in your life that real impact can be made. So there's, of course, an importance of listening and hearing, you know, because there's a difference between listening and hearing but doing cause. There's a difference between listening and hearing, but doing both of those things as a therapist and supporting. But I think that there's so much more that can be done than just that. So, for me, I let my clients know that from the start this is how the work is going to be done and, you know, I want them to be a very active participant in the way that work happens and unfolds. So I definitely put it out there from the start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I. It's honestly such a different approach, because I've worked with multiple therapists over the years and I've never had anyone approach me that way and I've never really felt like my therapists have pushed me a ton, which I love. That you're pointing out twice now that you have to be ready for it and you have to feel that that it's like a aligned part of your story right now, because I think that we're not always we're not always ready for it, but I love that you have this approach and focusing on boundaries.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I'm kind of curious about is when, when we're talking in terms of looking at ourselves in the mirror, right, taking accountability, there's a balance, because I've definitely witnessed where and this is just my personal opinion I mean it's, it is what it is, but where I felt like maybe one of my friends was taking so much accountability and doing so much work and their partner just wasn't, and it's like I'm constantly looking at the mirror, constantly looking at the mirror, which may not be the norm, but my audience.
Speaker 1:I know that there's people out there that are very accountable and take great responsibility for their actions and do take time in self-reflection Not that we can't do more sometimes or, like you know, see different perspectives but I am curious if we can touch on that balance and how do we know that we're finding that balance of? Okay, I'm really looking at myself in the mirror and looking at the role that I'm taking in this, let's say, relationship, because we're kind of talking about relationships, relationship, because we're kind of talking about relationships. I'm looking at the role that I'm playing in this relationship and there's always new perspectives that I can see, but to what extent am I looking and the other person is not doing?
Speaker 2:any work. Yeah Well, first of all, that sounds incredibly frustrating. Right To be doing self-work alongside someone who isn't willing to look at themselves, something that should be checked on for sure.
Speaker 2:But yes, that sounds incredibly frustrating and I think if you're doing that self-work to look in the mirror and being aware of your part in everything and nothing is happening with your partner, I think then the awareness needs to be turned still inward, but turned to okay. Well, where am I now not being satisfied? Where am I not being fulfilled? I'm doing this work to better myself in this relationship and look where I still feel I am. So that work does change, right, but it's still being pointed inwards. We cannot change anyone else Like I. Can't say that enough. We can't, no matter how much we want to. We just are simply not that powerful. The person we are with needs to want to change themselves.
Speaker 1:You're speaking my language. I say often and sometimes I feel like people might think that this is a very pessimistic view but I say often that people don't change and it's not that they don't change right, because obviously I am so different than I was when I was 21 years old and when I was 17 years old and when I was 15 years old but people don't change in regards to their people don't change to like how we want them to be or or what we want them to be like or how we want them to show up in a relationship, and and can we put an effort and meet our partner where we are?
Speaker 1:I think that's kind of a different conversation too. But fundamentally, we don't change unless we want to, and we can't change other people. And learning that's been one of my maybe I don't know biggest things in my personal life is learning when to walk away and when to stay and keep working on it and honestly, I don't think I have it figured out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I went to learning when to walk away is one of the hardest things right, because we're staying in a relationship because it's comfortable. So even if and I mean a friendship or romantic relationship, even a familial relationship right, any relationship that doesn't feel right to us, doesn't feel healthy, can still feel comfortable, and that's enough of a reason, a lot of the times, to make us stay. So something I'll often ask clients, you know, throughout exploration around a relationship like that, is what are things that I can do different? We do something different. It will almost always make the person we are with do something different too. It's a very interesting exercise.
Speaker 2:If you're usually the one I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. What if you didn't say I'm sorry this time? What would happen? Interesting, right, if you're usually the one that walks away and doesn't say anything. What would happen if you approach the conversation? But it's such a small shift that can act. It's very difficult to do right, because we have our natural reactions for a reason and they're very difficult to break out of. But when we start asking ourselves what can we do different, it's always interesting what comes out of that.
Speaker 1:I love that idea, that exercise in any relationship and thank you for pointing that out. I meant to point that out in the beginning. I think we oftentimes think of just romantic relationships but, yeah, families, huge Setting boundaries are a big one with that, yeah, setting boundaries within our family. So what happens? So let's kind of go there and do a hypothetical Like what happens if we do something different? Right, we're the ones that are always saying sorry, the people pleaser with our parents, right, and we are working on setting boundaries and we're like okay, I'm not going to apologize for something that's not my fault. If you were in the wrong, okay, this is a different situation, but I'm not going to apologize for something that's not my fault and I'm not going to appease that person. And then they get mad, or then they yell at us or then they, you know, don't want to spend time with us anymore, like you know, respond in a negative way.
Speaker 2:Well, I think the hardest part about something like that is actually sitting with the uncomfortable feelings about something being different. Right, if you're being yelled at because you did something different, can you sit with that? I mean, it's so uncomfortable. But if we can't learn to sit with those feelings, nothing is going to change. Right, if, as soon as the reaction happens, you say okay, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Right is if, as soon as the reaction happens, you say okay, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry you're back in that same pattern. Yeah, so, yeah, might it take a little while to actually implement change? Maybe, but part of that is going to be how you tolerate sitting in what's uncomfortable. So you know, again with something I always say is how can we find comfort in the discomfort, right, sitting in something that can be so intolerable, knowing that, okay, I'm doing something different. Can that bring you comfort or eventual comfort?
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Is that typically enough To change something, to change a boundary, to?
Speaker 2:become, to start to become comfortable in the uncomfortable. For sure, Maybe not the first, second, third time, but after a lot of work and the desire for that to change it for sure, can be enough.
Speaker 1:I love, I think one of the one of the practices that I've done in my life is really, from time to time, not daily, right, but I will practice being mindful of doing something that is uncomfortable for the fact that it is uncomfortable, and this can be physical discomfort, right, so it can be, you know, doing a harder workout at the gym, a cold plunge, a sauna, if you're like a heat or cold person, going for a run when you're not a runner, like pushing yourself that way, pushing yourself maybe to respond differently within more safe relationships where you feel like you know this person will still hold me and love me and accept me within that, Um, but almost for me, I've almost practiced it. So then, when you get to that point and this is also coming from someone that I mean everyone right, like hates, sitting in the uncomfortable feeling, yeah, everyone hates it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I actually really love this physical piece that you mentioned right, because I think that physically feeling something can be so helpful to how we then emotionally feel. Something right Like the body mind connection is so so, so, so, so real. So if we can practice physically making ourselves uncomfortable with something that's healthy, right, like things that you just named, I think that that's such a cool reminder and it can create such an awareness around how uncomfortable something can be and help us. Right, it's not hurting us, it's helping us. Just because something's hard Doesn't mean we shouldn't do it and that we can get through it Right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Work through it.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, proving to yourself that you, you can actually do this. I think it was Rachel Hollis, like through COVID, during in the midst of like 2019. I think that was the first time I heard, um, I think she had this whole thing and it was you can do hard things and it's such a simple thing, right, and I mean it's. It's. It's often the simple messages that are the ones that stick, and that's just something that sticks in my brain all the time. Whenever I have something that is uncomfortable or difficult, it's even like saying that to myself you can do hard things.
Speaker 1:Look at the hard things that you've done in the past. Look at everything that you've overcome in the past. You can do this thing.
Speaker 2:Right everything that you've overcome in the past, you can do this thing Right. A good question with that, too, is reminding yourself with the question of will I be okay? The answer is almost always yes. The same thing goes with relationships. If, for some reason, this relationship doesn't work out, if, for some reason, this relationship doesn't work out, will I be okay?
Speaker 1:the answer is almost always yes, I love that actually. I like that a lot, I think, because we get stuck right. Is it because we just avoid change?
Speaker 2:that we get. Yeah well, I Well, I think again it goes back to the comfort. Yeah, the the avoiding change is about staying comfortable. We, we really, really have difficulty tolerating discomfort and once we can lean into that and understand what's happening, it might give us some freedom to make some of those difficult changes.
Speaker 1:So how do we start building this self-awareness, how do we even start building this knowledge of? This is a pattern that maybe I don't want anymore, and I do have the power to change if we're in the beginning of that journey.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's about first recognizing a relationship that doesn't feel like it's working for you and identifying why that is. What is the pattern? Right, you first have to see what is the pattern that's happening. Pattern right, you first have to see what is the pattern that's happening, and I think the next step after that would be okay, where do I play a role in this pattern? Right, and then we begin the work of well, can I do different or does do I want to do anything different? Right, that's a big one. Does this just feel like? It's not for me? But if we want to remain in the relationship and work towards it feeling better or different, then the question becomes okay, where do I play a role and what can I do different?
Speaker 1:I like that. I think that's hard for some, very hard.
Speaker 2:Very, I know, know it's like all these things I'm saying sound from a baseline, so simple and like this is some of the hardest, hardest work that you can do to really look inward. It's so difficult and I I say to all my patients, if this was easy everyone would be doing it, but it's not. But the change really takes hard, real work on the self.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what is the benefit of this?
Speaker 2:If there's so many benefits, right, it's really to understand yourself gives you power to control your life from what's controllable. In a lot of ways, right, entering into relationships and feeling empowered in them because you understand why you're doing something or why you're reacting to something a certain way. You're doing something or why you're reacting to something a certain way. Same thing goes for you know, entering into a career path and how you interact with coworkers, or why am I even doing the job that I'm doing? You know, I think that this impacts your entire life, every relationship you have and how you move throughout your life too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's huge too, and we're cause one of the things that one of the connections that we have in our businesses is really learning yourself and I use tools like human design and cycle alignment, and so I mean all three of them really at the, at the heart, are learning yourself and learning your, the way that you are uniquely created through exploration of, like your human design chart Right, um, and I really like that. You said we can show up in relationships feeling empowered and feeling confident and knowing who we are. I think that comes with age, but also all of the work that I've done in my life. I've noticed in the different relationships that I've entered, there's a lot less uncertainty, I guess, I guess like lack of confidence, um, where it also becomes easier to let people go, I think, when we're right, that's with that question, will I be okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, you will.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think in in the beginning you don't know that right like will okay. Logically, yeah, sure, maybe, maybe I'll be okay, but as we continue this process and even maybe letting that person go with fear, like not you know, not completely knowing Okay, I definitely will be okay. And then recognizing oh, I was okay.
Speaker 2:And I am okay.
Speaker 2:And I think fear is an interesting one, because you know, if you're fearful of not having this person in your life, why is it your fear of being alone? Is it your fear of being not being loved? Right, what is it about? And if you understand that, then you automatically have more power and control over it. This isn't about this other person. This might have nothing to do with the other person and it has everything to do with you. So, right then, and there you feel empowered and you have more control to make these shifts, knowing that this other person has nothing to do with it, and you will be okay.
Speaker 1:Let me also say this is so different when you actually go through it. There's so many things in therapy that we like hear, like, oh, my therapist said that. Like all of those real trends, my therapist said this yeah, and until you actually like not go through it but work through it, so not something that happens to you, but it's something that you again take and you use it as an empowering situation.
Speaker 2:So different so right, right, that's what I'm saying. I feel, like this whole conversation, I'm making everything sound so simple and it is so not. No, it is so not when you're working through it. This is really really hard, intricate, difficult work that takes so much. It takes so much, and there's nothing easy or simple about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and I think that this is really simple about it yeah Well, and I think that this is really when we say find people to support you. I know that in the most difficult seasons of my life, if I didn't have the people that I had and I'm not just talking family and friends, like professionals If I didn't have the professionals that I had, it would have been completely different, or it would have taken me a lot longer, or, you know, it's as someone that I find I feel that I have a lot of tools and a lot of knowledge and I've really spent a majority of my life diving into self-help, self-empowerment, whatever like the work the work, um, that doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:Like there's no level that you can get to where you're like no, I can do this all by myself. And and there's no level that you're low enough that, like, you couldn't benefit from having someone supporting you in this and being able to zoom out, zoom in, like see different perspectives that you can't see because you're in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not just saying this because I'm a therapist, but therapy can be just some of the most meaningful, meaningful, wholesome work when we have this ability or opportunity to understand ourselves in this one way and, like you're saying, there's so many other ways to also do that work to understand yourself. But it gives you the tools and the empowerment that you need to move throughout your life and feel a level of sureness and confidence that you might not have if there was just a big question mark within you.
Speaker 1:I think, knowing I have, I have a one line in my human design chart which I would actually have to look at, like your gates and stuff, to see where else this shows up, because you don't have a one line in your profile.
Speaker 1:But the one line in your profile is called the investigator and it's like the researcher and I always attribute my needing to know, like one of the things that you said that really resonated with me is like when you do this work or when you work with a therapist, or whatever, you understand why you respond certain ways in relationships, and I really love understanding the, the like, what's going on up here in my brain when, when I'm like triggered or responding or not responding, reacting in a certain way, because there's a difference between responding and reacting yeah, I react in a certain way.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, where did that come from? Um, and that, like research brain of mine, I always attribute to the one line in my human design profiles, like really understanding where this is coming from, why I'm showing up this way, and it's just really interesting that you brought that up too. Yeah, so I want to talk about one thing in your human design chart and then, because I want to leave a little bit of time for you to like, I want to hear what you feel about it.
Speaker 1:Um, so we have just because I know that you don't know anything about human design, which I love because it opens up this kind of teaching opportunity, uh, on the podcast, which is fun. So we have. If you look at your human design, what's called a body graph chart, you're going to see that it roughly mimics an actual body. So there's like two triangles up top, that kind of look like a head, and then it goes down into your throat and your heart and blah, blah, blah, and you're going to notice that they have either a color it's colored in or it's white. So it's going to be depending on what app you're using. Like maybe it'll be black, purple my app is different colors, actually that doesn't really matter so much or it's just going to be completely white. Maybe you'll have one of the numbers in your, in your shape, that's colored in, but actual shape, which is a triangle, square, diamond, is not colored in. So you have colored in means defined, not colored in. For these purposes we'll say undefined. So you have two open centers and it's your um, it's called your G center and your ego center. Don't think ego in terms of like, how we think about ego.
Speaker 1:The interesting thing that I really just love about your chart is that your G center and your ego center. Are you familiar with the chakra system at all? A little bit, okay. So when we're talking in terms of chakras, your like heart chakra is obviously in the area of your heart. In the human design world, two of our chakra systems split, so our heart is one of the ones that's split and it's split into the G center and the ego center. So your two non-defined centers are basically what makes up the heart chakra, which, in human design terms, the g center is all about, like love. Well, it says love and direction, but it's really mostly about um, our direction, like where we're going in life and our identity. So how like who am I?
Speaker 1:um who do? I think that I am like who, who, who am I? And then where am I going? The ego center is a kind of our motivation. So, um, like what motivates me? Also, the actual ability to like get up and act and take action.
Speaker 1:Um, so I love looking at my guests human design charts when we're talking about, like your field of expertise, and I can tell that they're like this is really what they were created to do and really passionate about and really want to do, because not that like I've ever said this, but I would say these are the two that like we can kind of talk about in terms of relating to ourselves and to others.
Speaker 1:So, like the love and direction. Sometimes we think love as in like, oh, how I love other people, it's actually how I love myself and how I, it's that like identity and that confidence. And it's really interesting to me that those are your two undefined areas, because I heard one of my favorite pieces of human design info that I've ever learned was it's our open centers and our undefined centers where we have the most growth in our life. And it's often our undefined centers where I have found we tend to, if we're entrepreneurs, like we tend to have a lot of ties to our undefined centers um, because it's where we've spent the most time growing and developing.
Speaker 1:And because like for me personally. I have an undefined roots right, which is all about grounding. So because I've spent so much time and continue cause I don't have it all figured out, I spent so much time finding my grounding and finding, like my root, my sense of safety and stability, and especially the past few years of my life I haven't felt safe and secure. Especially the past few years of my life I haven't felt safe and secure. So it's really important for me to make sure that I show up that way in my for my clients, like how can we develop this safety and securement? So yours being like kind of the heart chakra we'll call it in quotes I really love that.
Speaker 2:So I'm curious if that resonates with you at all. I just want to make sure I totally get it. So mine is about remaining open from a love, a heart, a heart place.
Speaker 1:Good question so our open centers versus defined centers. I always use the analogy of a door versus defined centers. I always use the analogy of a door. So when we have a defined energy center which why I asked if you're familiar with the chakra system, is only because it models the chakra system and each energy center, each shape has its own characteristics which I kind of shared with, like the G center and the ego so when we have a defined center, that door is, let's say, closed, so other people's energy, other people's influence we could also call it has a harder time penetrating through, doesn't mean that your other people's energy can't get through because, right, we can open a door, but it has a harder time.
Speaker 1:In undefined center. The door is like cracked open, maybe halfway open, and then in open center, which just means we don't have any colored in numbers in that energy center. That door is wide open, so other people's energy can pretty easily flow in. So when we're talking in terms of like the G center, which is your identity, your love and direction maybe I'm not saying this is true for you, but for undefined or open we typically would say maybe in times of your life you've kind of struggled with like where am I going? What do I want besides just what everyone else is telling me, what I want, like what do I actually want and who am I actually? My sister has an undefined G center and she struggled a lot when she was younger with her self identity, like who am I?
Speaker 1:And and where. And for her case it was like what do I want to do with my life? Like, what is my purpose? Where am I going in my life? What do I want to do with my life? Like, what is my purpose? Where am I going in my life? Versus me, I have a defined G center and I'm not talking in terms of vocation, because I didn't always know what I wanted to do. I actually went to school for speech pathology and, like I was very clear on that, got into it a couple of years later and was pretty clear that I didn't want to do it.
Speaker 2:It's not necessarily job.
Speaker 1:It's just I've always been pretty clear on who I am, how I identify, even how I dress, like obviously that's changed over my lifetime, but I've never really explored extremes Like I was never like emo and goth and then like super girly girl Like.
Speaker 1:I've always been like generally, girly girl if we're labeling it, whereas my sister, like she was kind of like tomboy and then wanted to wear a dress and like. So our undefined G centers. One of the invitations is always actually explore and play around with like who, how you identify and how you want to identify. And then the last thing I'll say is we typically one of the reasons I like this about your chart is we say like, whenever somebody has an open center, you're also. That open center is kind of like a mirror. Also, that open center is kind of like a mirror. So let's say, you and I are working together. Right, I have a defined G center, you have an undefined. So I'm kind of like my G center. Energy is pouring into that mirror and being reflected even more strongly back to me, which, in terms of therapy, is kind of cool. Not that everyone that you meet is going to have a defined G center or ego, but like that's part of a therapist job.
Speaker 2:Right Is to be a mirror and to create clarity, so I totally love that.
Speaker 1:Like being a mirror with the G center and the ego is kind of cool in your specific relationship aspect of therapy.
Speaker 2:I don't know if this speaks to my chart, so you tell me, but I, you know, just in terms of what you were talking about before, I think I have always been very sure of myself. I definitely have always had direction. I'm very, very determined and know what I want. But I do think, as I've gotten older, something I'm learning about myself is that I the ideas of the way I thought things needed to be don't necessarily need to be that way, and that there is more opportunity for me beyond what I was supposed to do, mm-hmm. So that's something I'm definitely feeling so much more open to now in my life and I'm definitely exploring in terms of where I'm supposed to go and, um, just who I was supposed to really be yeah and and that's yeah, that's one of the invitations when you have the open g center is really I love that word exploring, just exploring like where do I want to go?
Speaker 1:who do I want to be? You have a lot, you have seven defined centers, so like that, the fineness, I always kind of like say that's like your defined centers ground you and bring you down to earth and that's a lot of defined centers for a human design chart. Probably not like you can have actually all defined centers, but um, from the charts that I've seen and worked with, like that's you're definitely on like the more defined areas or more defined side. So having that like and you have a defined crown and Ajna which crown? And third eye, if you're thinking in terms of chakras, so the way in which you think is pretty I was gonna say, defined, pretty consistent. The way in which you like gain insight and then process the insight is pretty consistent also great. As a therapist, love that for you. But I always yeah, it's always like finding that balance right. So it's not saying like, oh, I can't think of something a different way. It's actually finding that balance and asking yourself, like you said, can I process this information in a different way, can?
Speaker 1:I see this from a different perspective or a different background? Or can I explore this? Because we can get very stuck right With our I mean I would word it with our defined centers. We can get a little stuck in the way that we do things and the way that we process thoughts and patterns and emotions. So it's always finding that, you know, bridge.
Speaker 2:Right, and part of part of growth, I think, is, you know, incorporating what we were talking about earlier. Okay, well, is there something I can do different? Should I try something new? Right, it's okay, I'm defined, but that doesn't mean it's closed forever or that there's no room for exploration or wonder.
Speaker 1:Right. I think that we can use this tool, we can use that as an example, but really any tools that we've learned, that we've picked up in our life, we can use them as excuses, and use them as explanations of like I'm just this way, like, oh, my, this center is defined, or I'm a Leo, or I'm a Enneagram, whatever, or like Myers-Briggs whatever tool you want to say. We can use that as an excuse or we can use it as insight to challenge ourselves.
Speaker 1:Like and use it as insight to challenge ourselves Like is this actually me? Can I respond differently? That's different.
Speaker 2:Definitely, definitely, definitely. I was going to say we always. It's very natural to look for things that validates the story that we're living by, versus challenging it. So again, it's the what's easier right. What's easier is oh, that fits in with my story nicely, I'm going to go with it, versus challenging that idea and pushing yourself a little bit in a different way.
Speaker 1:I love that, I love that, I love that, I love that. It's really a growth mindset right. Exactly, and we're always, we're always changing and growing. I mean, that's just life.
Speaker 2:That's the goal, right? If you're not, then I think that that needs to be questioned.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I don't even know I yeah, it's hard for me even to like put myself in that I think a lot of it also is, um, how we were raised, because I was raised like my mom has such a growth mindset, maybe like too much of a growth mindset, if that's a thing. Um, and I can't yeah, I can't imagine staying stagnant.
Speaker 2:But I think so. Just, you know, using that as an example, yes, Right, Maybe we have that based on how we were raised. But then let's say you know that. And let's say it's the opposite way. Right, you don't have a growth mindset because of the way you were raised. But if you know that you can change that, right. But a lot of people don't even know that, so they just live that way, versus creating the awareness that this is why I have this mindset and then okay, do I want to continue that way, or is there another path for me? Is there another way for me?
Speaker 1:I love your message and your accountability and it's very inspirational to me. I think we can get very stuck in life is happening to me. It's that quote right. What if I shifted from life is happening to me to life is happening for me and really taking that accountability in, how can I change or can can I change this, how can I change this? I can change this. Yeah, taking action? Yeah, for sure, oh, I love that. So where can people find you if they are like, so here for it, let me learn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you can find me on my website at Jordan Scholar LMHCcom, or on Instagram at Jordan Scholar.
Speaker 1:Cool. And last question yeah, if you're standing on a stage right now and you had one message that you could share with the world, what would that message be?
Speaker 2:Do something different. That is my biggest. I mean I think I've said it right the whole episode. But again, this little little thing can have the power to help you think differently and also shift what's going on around you.
Speaker 1:Do something different we need that like tattooed.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:I think I'll get a new tattoo this weekend. Thank you so much for coming on. This is really thank you.
Speaker 2:This was awesome. Thank you thanks.