Journey to Well
We are not created to do this healing journey or life alone. In fact, it was Bessle Van Der Kolk who expertly shared “healing happens in the presence of an empathic witness”. That is the heart of this podcast & my business : to witness. You can expect a plethora of conversations on nervous system regulation, breathwork, human design & astrology, cycle alignment, energy & spirituality work and so much more. We are all on a journey back home to ourselves, rediscovering our innate power within & I am thrilled to take this journey to well with you. be well xx
Journey to Well
Sex Talk: Myths, Pleasure, and Finding Your Authentic Desires | Dr. Emma Smith
When was the last time you had an honest conversation about sex? Not just the logistics, but the deep stuff—pleasure, desire, and the myths we've all internalized? Dr. Emma Smith, certified sex and trauma therapist, joins us for a refreshingly candid discussion that might just transform how you think about physical intimacy.
The conversation begins with Dr. Smith's fascinating journey from trauma therapy to sex therapy. While helping sexual assault survivors reclaim their lives, she noticed something crucial was missing from their recovery: "They're showing up at work, in school, in friendships...but the bedroom is remaining elusive." This revelation led her to specialize in helping people reconnect with embodied pleasure after trauma.
We dive into pervasive sex myths that limit our experiences. Perhaps the most liberating insight? "Good sex is sex that you enjoy having. It is completely subjective." This simple truth challenges the performance-based metrics many of us unconsciously apply to intimacy. Dr. Smith debunks the myth that most women can achieve orgasm through penetration alone (80-85% cannot) and explores how responsive desire works—that slow-building arousal that takes an average of 20 minutes for women to develop fully.
Dr. Smith also addresses how religious upbringing and purity culture create lasting impacts on sexual experiences. Both of us share our Catholic backgrounds and the journey to unlearn limiting beliefs about pleasure. As she poignantly notes, many people don't even realize "sex was for my pleasure" until well into adulthood.
Whether you're struggling with performance anxiety, feeling disconnected from your desires, or simply curious about expanding your understanding of pleasure, this conversation offers compassionate insights and practical wisdom. Dr. Smith reminds us that true sexual fulfillment requires safety, trust, and the courage to explore what genuinely feels good—not what we think sex "should" look like.
Ready to rethink everything you thought you knew about good sex? Listen now, and discover how breaking free from sexual myths might just lead to the most authentic pleasure you've ever experienced.
Connect with Dr. Emma Smith on IG @ emmasmithphd or her website https://soliloquie.co/
Let's connect on social media! You can find me @ _journeytowell
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be well, my friend
xx Hannah
Hello, welcome back to the podcast Journey to Well. So I was telling Emma we have Emma Smith, a certified sex and trauma therapist, on the podcast today. She's also a 4-1 sacral generator, so we're going to talk a little bit about human design in between this podcast. But I was telling Emma I occasionally will ponder like who have I not really talked to? What experts have I not really talked to on my podcast yet that I personally would love to talk about and I think that we need to talk more about, and a few maybe a month ago now, I was like I really need to have a sex therapist on my podcast.
Speaker 1:We don't talk about sex openly ever. Well, I mean, within my friend group I definitely do, but I don't even talk about sex openly on my platforms typically because it's not very related to my immediate business. But I was like I really want to have a sex therapist on my podcast. And then Emma reaches out and I'm like, yes, please, let's have a conversation. So I love your platform, I love all of the open conversations you have and I'm very excited to have this conversation with you. But let's first let you introduce yourself. Who is Emma? What brought you into sex therapy? That's very interesting to me, and anything else that you want to share. Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2:Sure, absolutely. Thank you for having me. So yes, my name is Dr Emma Smith and I'm a licensed professional counselor and an ASEC certified sex therapist and trauma therapist. And the way that I got into sex therapy was actually through the trauma work. And so when I was a baby hatchling counselor, like 12 years ago, and doing my practicum and internship, you know, fresh out of graduate school, I I had been married to Marine and so I thought that I was going to work with the military, but then I ended up in the middle of nowhere, texas, with no military bases, and so, thank goodness, I had a supervisor who was like actually, you know, trauma isn't all that different and we can use your interests and your skills in this way with this different population that was sexual assault survivors. And so I started working with them and I just found them to be the most resilient, inspiring, badass women and it was all women at that time that I had ever run across and everybody was like, oh my gosh, that work must be really heavy, and there were parts of it that were heavy, but that's not.
Speaker 2:When I look back on that time.
Speaker 2:That is not what I recall from that time.
Speaker 2:What I recall are people coming in and, you know, just being so aware that these people had survived the thing that had happened to them, right and so, and watching them reclaim all of these different aspects of themselves and be able to go back to work and go back to school and show up in their friendships, and all of that kind of good stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, fast forward several years later and I'm realizing that, yeah, they're showing up at work and they're showing up at school, and they're showing up in their friendship circles and maybe in their families and their communities, but the bedroom is remaining elusive. And it's because we don't really talk about sex in trauma therapy, right, we're usually talking about the restoration of normalcy. We're not necessarily keeping people all the way to where they can experience embodied pleasure again. Wow, right. And so, you know, the pandemic hits and I, you know, I grew mold on two sourdough starters and I was like, well, that's not for me, so I'm going to have to go back to graduate school, because this is what I'm good at and sourdough is not going to be it.
Speaker 2:So I went back and I got my PhD and I got certified in sex therapy along the way. So here I am and I grew old.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, you're hilarious, I love that and that's actually oh man. I am so grateful that sexual trauma, like big T trauma, is not a part of my story, so that's never actually something that I considered that we don't talk about. The actual like getting back into the bedroom in trauma therapy, which is wild, just like you were thinking that it's wild. That's wild to me because, of course, that seems like something that would be something that needs to be talked about. Which trauma therapy is wild to me in general? I've also never I don't think I've ever had a trauma therapist on my podcast and just kind of talking about that aspect of therapy and how it's very, I would assume, vastly different than maybe what we think of traditional therapy as being Maybe different. I would say heaviness. I mean you're like, yeah, that wasn't that heavy, but I would think that it's much heavier it is, but there's also a baseline to return to.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so that's really lovely, in fact. In fact, when I think about you, know, I think not every therapist is the right fit for every person or the right fit for every concern Right, and so I love working with trauma. I know that sounds like a weird thing to say.
Speaker 1:I do too in a different way, in a non-therapeutic like non-therapy way.
Speaker 2:I do but like, but there's other issues that I'm not particularly good at treating and one of them is like chronic depression, because a lot of the time it's it is a, a baseline that the person is at and like. That actually is the problem, and there's a whole different set of skills and tools and strengths that I have some incredible colleagues who are truly brilliant, and the way that they approach their work is vastly different, right, so yeah.
Speaker 1:So this is just my cup of tea and educated in what you are dealing with. So not maybe going to a trauma therapist if it's trauma, or going to someone that really really deals with and enjoys dealing with and has the experience in dealing with depression or anxiety or whatever it is? So sex, let's talk about it. So I really want to. One of the things that we talked about is kind of debunking some myths, and I would love to actually start there Because, like we've already mentioned, we don't really talk about sex.
Speaker 1:And I will add, on top of that, we have a lot of preconceived notions and a lot of ideas of what good sex looks like, or what the right or quote right sex is, and if we don't, if we don't fit in whatever mold that we have created that sex should be, then we think that something's wrong with us, or we think something's wrong with our partner, or our partner thinks something's wrong with us. That's something that we should talk about, because that's happened to me a lot. Like, oh, blah, blah, blah, like that's never happened to me before. And then I'm like, oh, is something wrong with me? Like because every other quote, every other quote you've been with is one way and I'm the other way. Is something wrong with me? Like there's all of these notions that we have in our mind, so I would love for you to share maybe the most fun ones to you, maybe the ones that you enjoy talking about the most, or the ones that maybe come across your therapy desk often.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, how much time do we have?
Speaker 1:ask often yeah, okay, how much time?
Speaker 2:do we have? I know, I know I'm like we could talk for three hours, but you really really could. Just on myths, it is so okay. So the number one myth that maybe people don't necessarily say, but I think is implied in so much of the conversations that we have about sex, is what counts as sex. What counts as sex, so most people will. When I say you know sex, most people are thinking of intercourse, and most people are thinking of what we call PIV, or penis and vagina intercourse, right? However, that is one version, right. There are many versions. Some involve penetration, some do not, some involve very specific body parts, some do not, yeah, right. But if you ask different people about what they think about sex, you will get wildly different answers, right, and so I think that's one of the things. Then it's well, what counts as good sex, right, and so here's what I'm going to. Here's what I'm going to. I'm going to debunk this myth for you.
Speaker 2:Good sex is sex that you enjoy having. That is good sex. It is completely subjective. If you enjoy it and you're like, oh, that was good, I would do that again. Great, you just had good sex, right. If you're like I would like to do that more frequently. Okay, maybe you're not having enough sex. If you're like I, would like to do that less frequently, maybe you're having too much, or you're having too much of the wrong kind for you. So I think that sometimes we put on, we put a lot of rules in play and I get questions from journalists and different folks in you know in the world who are like how much sex do people need to be? Having as much as they want, right, as much as they want, up until there is, of course, that tipping point where we talk about out of control sexual behavior, which is when it's like really impeding on. You know your life, right? If you are missing work, right.
Speaker 2:If you're no longer in the driver's seat. Well then, we're going to have a different conversation, but for most of us out there, it's going to be. I don't know, are you happy with the amount of sex that you're having and the way that you're having it? And if so, great, you're having good sex.
Speaker 1:Can you have too little sex?
Speaker 2:You can, but again, it's still on that subjective piece, right? So there are people and I have worked with clients who are truly ace and that means that they're asexual. They do not experience desire for sex in the same way that many of us do, and if it doesn't bother them, okay, yeah, it's just you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what happens when we are with our partner and we have different? Uh, we have different. You know like it's like. My thought is oh, you have way too much sex or you have way too little sex, and and the person you know, the opposite person feels the same, that it's either too much or too little. Or you, we have different definitions of what good sex is like. Oh, I just felt that that was great, and then he's like or she's like, that was terrible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So this is another great myth to kind of talk about. So desire discrepancy is what you just described right, and it is one of the most common things that couples navigate. So if you are navigating this in your relationship, it does not mean that you're with the wrong person. In fact, in some ways, I think that desire discrepancy speaks to actually a strength in the relationship, which is that you're actually communicating right. If you're having a conversation, if you're able to look at your partner and be like, hey, I think I would like to change some things about our sex life, and they're also in that conversation with you, that is fantastic, because that means that you're actually able to talk about that right and everybody's afraid that they're messed up, I think, um, and so I just want to debunk that.
Speaker 2:So if you're having this conversation, uh, doesn't mean that there's anything wrong. It actually means that there's something right that you're able. This conversation doesn't mean that there's anything wrong. It actually means that there's something right that you're able to have that conversation. So, with desire discrepancy, it's about, you know, really kind of exploring, hey, like well, what would good sex be like for you and what would good sex be like for you? And how do we, you know, how do we do this dance? And, yes, some people would use the word compromise.
Speaker 2:I like the idea of a dance because it has fluidity to it, has flow to it. Sometimes people think that sex for both partners, or really good sex for both partners, has to happen at the same time. That's not necessarily true, right. Sometimes, depending on the couple, that could be completely impossible, depending on what people want, and guess what, that's okay too. You can have really good sex that's focused on one partner's pleasure, and then you can have a really good sex that's focused on the other partner's pleasure. So it's just about figuring out what works for the two of you and throwing out any of the scripting that you're bringing or any you know, your best friend or whoever.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's so hard to separate that I think because we do have all of these these, yeah, preconceived notions of, of of what it should be like, or even realizing that, oh, what I like maybe my partner is not, that's not my first, my partner's first choice, and then recognizing that's okay, that there's nothing wrong. Again, there's nothing wrong with him or there's nothing wrong with her, it's just recognizing that we might have different, different desires. I like that you also brought up like maybe we're not both experiencing our like highest pleasure at the same time and that's OK. I also I mean all I can do. Really I'm not well educated in this, besides well educated in my own experience. So I'm like how much should I talk about my own experience?
Speaker 1:But I will say in my experience I have not come across many partners that have that perspective and even have the perspective of like time. I think every everyone that I have been with it's always like fast, you know, and if it's, if it's too long, then again something's wrong or, you know, we lose interest. I don't know what happens, but do you know what I mean Like and time I feel like is. Is that a myth too? Is there some myth around time that we can talk about myth too.
Speaker 2:Is there some myth around time that we can talk about? Yeah, absolutely so. And again I'm going to use, like, what is generally true. So I'm going to caveat this by saying if this is not true for you, that's okay. You're probably normal for you, right?
Speaker 2:So you know, for most people there's two types of desire, and one is spontaneous desire, and that's where I don't know the wind blows the right way, or the sunlight the clouds part and the sunlight hits you. And one is spontaneous desire, and that's where I don't know the wind blows the right way, or the sunlight the clouds part and the sunlight hits you and you're like, oh, okay, I'm ready to go, right, that's spontaneous. And then there's this other one, that's responsive desire, and that is where you know you're just kind of going along having your day, and then your partner is like, hey, would you like to, would you like to do some activities, right? And you kind of go like, oh, I wasn't thinking about that before, I was actually just loading the dishwasher, but yeah, I think I could be open to that, you know.
Speaker 2:And then you go and you are open to it at the beginning, but you might not actively be turned on, so to speak. But as the encounter unfolds then you get into it Right, and so that is obviously slower because you were just doing whatever it was that you were doing. Sex was not on the brain and you kind of have to catch up. Well, from the average woman, I think it's about 20 minutes actually. It takes from when desire sparks to when you are fully aroused and able to be present and and feel that and like again, experience with may vary right yeah, um, and that is more true for women, but it's not only true for women.
Speaker 2:There are plenty of men out there that experience responsive desire, and sometimes we you know, I think as a culture we just expect that men are ready to have sex whenever, wherever and however, and if they are not immediately aroused, um, sometimes their female partners think that something is wrong with them. Sometimes they think there's something wrong with them because nobody's ever said oh hey, foreplay might be for you too.
Speaker 1:yeah, so that's a good point. Actually, you know, like For yeah, that can't. Can it be enjoyable for the male to like? We always talk about it for the female and you got to warm her up as, as we say, but could be for the male to, is what you're saying is what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and so sometimes with my couples, you know, I have something called a sexual tasting menu and we go through and like, you know what are you setting your table with, what is your appetizer course? And a lot of that is foreplay because, guess what, what might be a turn on for me may not work for my partner, and vice versa. So we want to know, like versa. So we want to know like, hey, what, what does start to kind of perk you up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Um and maybe it's, you know. Is it taking a shower? Is it a massage? Is it asking me about my day and being interested in my answer? What you know, um, is it saying? Is it telling a story? Like hearing your partner tell a story where they are talking about you know something they're really excited or passionate about, right, that can be arousing to somebody and you just kind of have to. You just kind of have to ask and be interested in what they actually say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, right. What if they don't know? What if? What if you're asking these questions Like what if, yeah, what? What if they're like I don't know what turns me on, or whatever turns you on, turns me on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really hard, I know, and so and so sometimes, you know, in an effort to be a a good partner quote, unquote, right where you're just like, oh, I'm, I'm just whatever you want me to be, yes, yeah, and that's hard, because I think that that is some cultural scripting and I think that that is one where it's like, oh well, maybe you know, I think at this point I would probably say part of me wants to be like, hey, then maybe this is a really good time to go, maybe seek out a sex therapist and say, hey, like I think I have some a block around this, you know, and and like, let's talk about that and that person you know, one of the things that happened when I moved to Tennessee is that I had to distinguish between what a sex therapist is and, like the fact that I am not touch people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in my sessions we just talk about it and I give people resources, and then they have the best homework that they've ever gotten in their entire life to go home and like explore, right, but you're not doing that in my office oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I love that so, and nothing against people who do that work. I'm just not even that much of a hugger, so like that would not be my area. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I have great, yeah, I have like wonderful people in my life who are way more embodied in that way than I could ever imagine to be, and I will let them handle all of that Like that is not my jam.
Speaker 2:Right, but I will talk about it with folks and and get them to explore and maybe look at some of the underlying messages that people gave them, maybe in childhood, where they were ashamed of their bodies or the way that their body functioned or about some of the things that they desired, and a lot of times when we start to untangle and explore that then all of a sudden people have more capacity to open up and be more explorative.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, you and I talked about when, when we first connected. Uh, you were also raised Catholic and I I was baptized Catholic. I went to a Catholic high school, catholic and I was baptized Catholic. I went to a Catholic high school. So I know a lot about Catholicism. I didn't grow up going to Catholic church every day. My parents were Catholic and then when they got divorced they both kind of got away from the Catholic church because there's so much shame and shunning when you get divorced and you're Catholic.
Speaker 1:So I know a lot about Catholicism and I think that's our story and I think a lot of people also have a lot of shame around desires and what they want and just sexual drives. Whether you were raised Catholic or not, is what I'm really trying to get to. But you and I just kind of have that connection. But that was one of the things that I realized that I really had to work through with in my adult years was really beginning to play around with.
Speaker 1:This is what I like and there's nothing wrong with that, and like this is how I am and this is what turns me on and and really exploring that, because I don't know that when we haven't moved through that shame, pressure, guilt, whatever you want to call it, whatever we felt in our childhood. I don't know that we can possibly then begin to explore what you like, like if you haven't even walked through the shame and what had closed you off. I don't know that we could really explore like, oh, actually this feels good to me. It's just I don't know. That's my story. My sex was very robotic, what I thought was supposed to be good sex, and it wasn't terrible sex. I mean it. It it was very average sex, but it wasn't terrible. But until I really dove into everything underneath the surface, there wasn't any capacity that I had to explore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I understand that so much. And you know, I did grow up Catholic and I went, I was practicing for a long time, in fact. I went through, you know, catholic elementary school and then I went to a Jesuit college, wow so, and you know, the first time, the first time I had sex outside of marriage, right, I was in college and I went to confession the next day, right, and I had to tell this like 85 year old priest and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, how am I supposed to do this? Uh, and you know they I don't know why, but they didn't have it set up with the screen. It was like face to face.
Speaker 2:So I'm like face to face with like, for all intents and purposes, grandpa, right, oh my God. And I'm like, okay, wow, how do I say this? You know, I think I ended up saying like father, I compromised my chastity Like the only way that I could come up with to say it, and I'm like oh God, I can't believe.
Speaker 2:I said that, and then the next week I had to go back and say it again. Right, oh man, I know, I know it was. It was actually kind of funny because I think after the second time he was like you know, maybe, maybe you need to like work through this and then you can come back. Yeah, you don't have to come back every week. Oh, my goodness, like okay, thank you um and so, yeah, I remember that right.
Speaker 2:But like it was also for me it was very, it was very vanilla, because, like, where am I getting, where am I getting my education from?
Speaker 2:And then also, I, I didn't even necessarily understand that sex was for my pleasure, I just understood that it was something that somebody wanted from me and so my ability to meet that expectation or exceed it was like how I rated it. Yeah, but it was really weird because I I joke around that, um, I was like, oh my gosh, like I think I kind of acted sounds so gendered, but like I think I kind of acted like a dude during sex, even though I was having sex with men, because we would get done and I would like pop up and leave, bye, bye, bye, bye. Like I know you're done with me, I'm done with you, goodbye. Yeah, because I didn't want to stick around for, like the debriefing that I had made up in my head that they were going to be like well, you didn't know, interesting, apparently it was like a major power move. Yeah, I didn't feel that way about it at the time.
Speaker 1:Ah, interesting. Yeah, I mean, we don't, we don't really, we don't really want to have the conversation, whether it's like the first time we have it or afterwards, I don't think we, we really, even with our partner, it's always. It's always this uncomfortable, this uncomfortable, this uncomfortable thing, and I don't, I don't really know why it's so uncomfortable. Besides, just societally, it's like oh, we don't talk about sex, we don't talk about that yeah, I mean, I think purity culture is everywhere and even if it wasn't part of your family, you know, in that like, hey, don't do this.
Speaker 2:Um, it's in the soup, right, like it's just it's in the water. And so really, even people who, I think, grow up even, you know, in very non-religious, very secular households can often get the purity culture backlash. And so, yeah, I think it wasn't. Even I was in my 30s, probably before I was like, oh, I think it wasn't. Even I was in my thirties, probably before I was like, oh, I think this gets to be about me.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, that's really tough because I think I had that transition too and I'm like no, I don't want to just be having sex if I'm not feeling immense pleasure or pleasure at all. And then you kind of have that pushback, you know, from your partner or different partners, but from different people, that you it's like no, this is also I'm half of this puzzle piece. It's not just for you, but I also think that that's a lot of like stereotyp.
Speaker 1:Years ago, maybe three years ago I don't even know what it was called it was something about like design your sex room or like something about that. And there was one couple and she was like, yeah, I've never had an orgasm and they had like three kids and they'd been married for like 20 years. I was like what, you've never had an orgasm. And not even judging her, her like I was just like that's ridiculous. I can't even imagine never feeling that. Um, but it was almost just kind of like, at least from what I recall, and this was years ago, but from what I recall her, her saying was like I didn't really know that I was supposed to.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I didn't know that that was an option.
Speaker 2:No, that's real, that's real. Well, and if we can jump back to myth busting for a second, you know there's, it's upwards of, I think it's 85 or 80% of women cannot achieve orgasm through penetration alone. Right and like. That's just. Most of us need clitoral stimulation as well, and so if you don't know that, you might think that there's something wrong with you and if your partner doesn't know that they might think there's something wrong with them right when really, it's like actually you're in the majority, yeah, right, and there's even some new studies that are have come out recently that we're looking at.
Speaker 2:You know, even women, uh, who can have orgasms through penetrative sex. Quote, unquote alone. Um, they have started looking at, seeing, like actually, is it like the angles of the way that people's pelvises are tilted, or the way that their bodies are shaped or whatever that something is actually stimulating the clitoris, even if you don't think that's happening.
Speaker 1:I've always thought that too. I've had a few conversations and I'm like, okay, so you had an orgasm while there is penetration, but like you were still externally stimulated. So that's still not yet, because I've always, I've always been like I don't even think that that's like remotely possible for me and I've never really even tried because I'm just like I don't, I don't, I don't have any like badge of honor that I'm trying to wear and be like oh yeah, I can do it just from penetration.
Speaker 1:But even the people that I've talked to, I'm like, yeah, no, it's still, and I'm sure that there's people that can, and good for you. But I was listening to a podcast the other week and and it was with a sex coach and she said there's something like 20 different orgasms that females can have. Have you heard this?
Speaker 2:I have heard it. I have heard it. I can't run them off and name them but, there are lots of different ways that people can experience a release of of pleasure and you know, there's even I have seen some studies where people experienced trauma and they lose the ability to function in certain parts of their body. But the brain remaps and they can experience erotic pleasure in different parts of their body. So, I mean the possibilities. You know we are. We are just scratching the surface. Now I think of what's possible, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really do think that it's. It's very interesting to me and so cool to kind of talk about, I mean, just the human body in general, like the way that we're able to hear heal ourselves, the wisdom of our body, and then, if you just put that in a conversation about sex, like there's so many ways that we limit ourselves, I believe, and we have again these ideas in our head of this is what sex should look like, or this is how sex should be, or, you know, this is even what an orgasm should look like and sound like and feel like, and what if it didn't have to be just that? There was something that you said when we were talking and you said something about like being able to reframe what's possible and then explore, like explore what you want. Can you dive into that, because I feel like it's very aligned with this? Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:So when sometimes people say, kind of going back to what you had said about like, if somebody's like, well, I don't, I don't know what I want, well, sometimes it can be difficult to know what's what you want if you don't know what's possible, if people haven't laid out a framework for you, right, so you shouldn't quote, unquote need a framework. I know that people will say that, but just do you. Well, that's lovely If you are somebody who is completely comfortable. You know coloring outside the lines or writing in a completely blank notebook, but some of us like lines.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Some of us like lines, and so that's why you know you need a starting point. And then I think, and then you can have creativity flow. But I don't want anybody to feel like, oh well, I'm not creative, so I'm not going to be able to do this. No, you can. You can start out with some guidelines and then feel free to modify.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always said that about myself I'm not creative, but then that's what I really liked. You said with your couples you have some cookbook, what did you call it?
Speaker 2:The sexual tasting menu. Tasting menu.
Speaker 1:So is that kind of? What you're getting at is, is those are some guidelines and I would assume? Well, explain it. I don't want to assume.
Speaker 2:So the sexual tasting menu I have two versions right, and one of them is completely blank and that's for my couples that maybe are a little bit. They either have more experience or they've just been more sexually open over the years, okay, and they do have an idea of what they like. And then I have one that kind of has some yes, no, maybe checklist style things in it and that is just to kind of say, hey, here's some common ones that people like, maybe, or are curious about or might want to try, and so that can give you a starting point. Yeah, but sometimes like, and then you know there, but please feel free to like, cross out the ones you don't like and write in something if you think of it better. Like, don't feel like I am not the chef, right? Yeah, you, you two, are creating this for yourselves. But here's, here's some prompts to get you started, kind of like journaling prompts, right? Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:I um. So we're gonna do a little human design, which I've never talked in terms of sex and human design. But I want to say something. And then I have another, another question. But so in human design we have and I talk about this often on my podcast and on my channel we have what's called energy centers.
Speaker 1:When you say that you had your chart pulled, so, like when you saw that picture, it's called a body graph chart. You have all these shapes. So you have a triangle pointing up on, like where your forehead would be. You have a triangle pointing down where, like your chin would be, you have a square where your heart would be. So we call those energy centers and they're either going to be colored in or not colored in, depending on or there'll be a specific color, or like white, depending on what chart you, where you pull your chart from, and you have I'm talking about the two top ones you have a not colored in, so a white upper triangle which is called your crown energy center, and then you have a colored in which we would call defined energy center, when the triangle is pointing down, which is called your Ajna.
Speaker 1:I have the same thing. I have an undefined crown, defined Ajna and you're really reminding me of this when you're talking, because that specific combination, when we have an undefined crown and a defined Ajna, we do really well when we have a little bit of inspiration. So like we need just like a little spark of inspiration. So how I use that in my business is sometimes I will follow other human design experts or cycle alignment coaches and see how they're posting reels, not what they're posting, but like the design of their reel or their hook and then explanation and like how they're kind of doing that. Because with the undefined crown is what this like kind of behind the human design behind it is the undefined crown, is what the kind of behind the human design behind it is the undefined crown. It's like we're really open to ideas and we need those ideas to flow in and we need to see them, just like we need the journal prompts or like the ideas, the checklist, and then you're defined Ajna is your third eye. So it's like you're processing, how you process information. So you could be like I really like what Emma said here, like her invitation here, except I don't know, except, instead of using chocolate sauce, use like maple syrup, right, or something like that, right, like if we're kind of having, like sexy play and that would be like a way like cause you are going to be able to process that and be like, but this is really what I want.
Speaker 1:So it'd be really interesting actually to work with clients in this in this way, like sex, therapy, human design, and to say, ok, maybe, maybe, and really just to see, I really like to research and kind of like find information. So it'd be interesting to see the ones that do really well with the open checklist. Do they have more defined, like a more defined crown and more defined Ajna, or the ones that really need that like inspiration. Do they have the more undefined centers? Just to put it in human design terms, and it's really helpful. You don't even have to know your human design. Like these are little pieces that I like to bring in. You don't have to know your human design, but knowing how you like to generate ideas, like how your creativity is sparked.
Speaker 1:Do you just really like being creative in the bedroom? Do you like having all of these creative ideas? And can you talk to your partner about like hey, I really like coming up with these ideas. Are you down to try them with me? Like it might flop, it might not work at all, but let's try it. Or do you really like gaining inspiration, whether that's talking to a sex coach or a sex therapist, or talking to other friends or listening to podcasts, like there's so many ways now, I mean I'm here saying like nobody talks about sex anymore. We actually are talking about sex a lot, a lot more. So there's a lot, a lot of great ways outside of like porn, which is not representative not representative, I think, of sex. But there's so many ways that we can gain inspiration and creativity that there doesn't need to be, we don't need to be in this box. But knowing I guess that's what I'm getting at Knowing your thought, processing how you gain, how you gain your insight and then how you process your insight could, could be very exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree, I agree, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:Lot more males come in your office, which is very exciting. Are you finding that there's some sort of particular pattern or underlying pattern of why these males now are coming in and wanting to talk about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's. It's actually been very interesting because this is you know, I moved from Washington DC to Tennessee, to Nashville about just over a year ago now, primarily with women and the LGBT community for most of my career and I've been open to working with men. But when you look at like my marketing and like who I'm talking to and stuff like that, I am not marketing towards men and so it was very interesting when they start coming in and part of it, and especially like some more conservative men coming in and I'm like, oh, this is okay, Well, come on in. But like also really.
Speaker 2:you know, yeah, and sometimes I'm really curious and they're like oh well, I'm not going to run into you anywhere outside of here. And so I think that I love that. I'm like, yeah, I wouldn't want to run into my therapist either, right.
Speaker 2:No way Come on in Um, but one of the things that there, a lot of them come in because, um, either, you know, they're referred by another therapist who's like I am not equipped to talk about sex, right, because we don't necessarily teach therapists how to talk about sex. Sure, we don't necessarily teach therapists how to talk about sex. Actually, maybe you get one course, one if that, but it's not required for most states, so you could not, you know, ever have any education in that, and then you're just open to all of the myths that the rest of us were. So either they're getting referred that way or they're coming in because they have anxiety related to performance and a lot of times it's erectile dysfunction.
Speaker 2:And you know, I most had your labs run. You know, have you been to your actual doctor? Because there are some physiological things that can manifest and then we want to get that checked out and so and I'm not qualified to diagnose that, so I will refer you, happily, to people who can, but a lot of times they'll be like yep, you know, believe me, you were the last person I was going to come see. Like I've already exhausted all of these other ones Okay.
Speaker 2:Got it Noted and they, uh, they get really spun up about not being able to perform, and part of it is because of what we were talking about earlier, where they don't know that responsive desire is a thing, or if they do know it's a thing, they don't know it's a thing for them. Yeah, right, yeah. And so so I talk and I get really nerdy and I talk about the brain and I talk about what's going on and that you have, you know, you have your wanting system, which is your desire. You have your wanting system, which is your desire, and you have your liking system, which is pleasure, and a lot of times we overemphasize the desire system without talking about what feels pleasurable.
Speaker 2:And a lot of men are actually really disembodied, and so I call it brain in a jar syndrome, like you're just you're a brain in a jar and you're a brain in a jar, and then sometimes you have a penis right, like nothing in between. Um, and so we really talk about hey, what temperature do you like? Your shower, you know? Or what types of cloths feels good on your skin and they're like wrong, you know what. What smells do you like? Do you like, you know, the daylight bulbs, or do you like warm lighting, like all of those types of things? How loud do you like warm lighting, like all of those types of things? How loud do you like your music? Why Like all of that? And they're like, why do you have me talking about? Yeah right, because it's about being embodied friend you know, yeah, and so we talk about that.
Speaker 2:And sometimes it can be, you know, their partners may have myths that they're holding on to about you know. Well, if you're not aroused immediately, there must be something wrong with me. And then these guys don't feel that way. I actually haven't run across anybody who's like, yeah, I'm just not attracted to my partner, wow. A lot of times they're like, no, I am, but like, ah, it's not working, yeah, and so, and I'm like, well, anxiety is also not going to help, so kind of relax into that. But yeah, they've been coming in and it's, it's very rewarding work to do, actually, because we really get. In order to do that work, you really have to get up under somebody's armor yeah, right, and and make it safe to say, hey, you are human. Yeah, just like everybody else. And you know, bodies are weird, right, bodies are weird, especially in sex. Bodies make weird sounds, bodies look weird at different angles, like it. It just happens, you know, and it's okay. And sex doesn't have to be serious.
Speaker 2:You know, sex is an adult version of play and we can only play when we feel safe, right, and so sometimes it's about that If you are hypercritical about your performance, guess what You're not going to enjoy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Right, so yeah guess what you're not going to enjoy? Yeah, right, so yeah, that was really cool. Thank you for sharing that and and it is we don't. I can't think of many things that are more vulnerable than sex, and we think of it and we have so many layers to it and so many ideas about it and and a lot, oftentimes a lot, of shame around it or a lot of guilt or lack of confidence.
Speaker 1:I mean even the people that come across very confident. We all have moments of feeling inadequate or feeling, um, like some, you know, maybe something is wrong with us. Or yeah, feeling in your head and you're like I want to feel pleasure right now. I just I feel so stressed or I don't feel safe. I mean, that's a whole nother hour conversation is talking about safety. Do you actually? And? And what does feeling safe look like for you? Because I think a lot of people would be like, yeah, I feel safe with my partner. Sure, like I don't. But there's so many different kinds of safety too. Like, do you feel emotionally safe? Do you feel physically safe? Do you feel spiritually safe? Do you feel mentally safe with them? Like, I mean, do you feel like you could come to them, you know, and have these conversations? And yeah, my last question would be I feel like I've tried to say this like 10 times, my last question, but one more. But one more question.
Speaker 1:My last question would be for someone that male, female that feels that they can recognize that they are closed off, like they recognize that we can say, in terms of safety, like they just don't feel safe enough, whether it's in themselves, with their partner, whatever. Like they don't feel safe enough to explore yet they want to like someone that that feels like oh wow. Like I'm finally recognizing I have a lot of misconceptions and I have a lot of these myths built up in my head. Um, and I don't want to have these myths and I don't want to be having a bunch of vanilla sex quote. I want to explore and I want to have, you know, the best orgasm of my life and experience the most pleasure for that person. Where do we start?
Speaker 2:I think it starts with saying you know, you don't have to go through this alone, right, and there's people out there who are really passionate about debunking these myths, Right. And so there's, in fact, there's a whole, you know, there's a whole association. There's several professional associations, so that is one.
Speaker 2:So, like, this is figureoutable and you don't have to do it by yourself. And then the other piece is that sometimes people confuse trust and safety. So you know, yeah, I feel safe with my partner, yeah, but do you do you trust them with the most vulnerable aspects of you? And one of the things that we're we're really getting at when we ask about trust is like are you trusting them not to criticize you? Are you trusting them to be with you on this journey? And so that is that's another thing. So I would say you know when people are really trying to figure it out. I would say you know when people are really trying to figure it out, if they have the ability to work with a sex therapist, I think that's a great opportunity to do that. You can do it as a couple, you can do as an individual. That would be probably one of my first things. And then you know there's some great books out there that, like Emily Nagowski's, come as you Are, I think, is a fantastic book. I give it to almost, or at least recommend it to almost all of my clients, regardless of gender.
Speaker 2:Right To kind of start doing some of that early myth busting busting. Do you recommend couples versus single more than another. No, it really depends on what the issue is. If it's something that is more underlying, like where the person has their own like blocks or baggage, but they're no, my partner's fine, they're like completely open. You know, that might be something that is more about coming in as an individual, but also you can start as an individual and then get to a point where it's like oh hey, like now we're going to send you to somebody to work on as a couple yeah, or sometimes people go to couples therapy and they end up being referred for individual.
Speaker 1:So yeah, okay, okay. I'm always curious about that, like when, um, do you have a hard stop right now? I do Okay, okay, I just didn't want to. We'd never. We did touch on human design, so that's fine. So tell people where we can connect with you, where do you hang out the most? And if they want to continue learning from all of your great wisdom, how can they do that?
Speaker 2:yeah, so probably I'm the most active on Instagram, so that's emmasmithphd on Instagram and then I also have a sub stack and if you go to my Instagram you can link it and it's the intimate philosopher on sub stack. And if you go there, there's actually a little guide that I put up for my subscribers that you can look at. That talks about finding a good therapist and how to break up with a not so great therapist and even when coaching versus therapy might be more appropriate, and so that may be something that people can you know, either read or download, and hopefully that'll be helpful.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, definitely the difference between therapy and coaching, I think would be very important to to note. Thank you so much. This was so fun. I will link all of that down below so if you're looking in the description you'll have the link to your Instagram and your sub stack and your website and all the good things. But thank you so much. This is such an insightful conversation and just really fun to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you so much, Hannah. It was great to be here.