Journey to Well
We are not created to do this healing journey or life alone. In fact, it was Bessle Van Der Kolk who expertly shared “healing happens in the presence of an empathic witness”. That is the heart of this podcast & my business : to witness. You can expect a plethora of conversations on nervous system regulation, breathwork, human design & astrology, cycle alignment, energy & spirituality work and so much more. We are all on a journey back home to ourselves, rediscovering our innate power within & I am thrilled to take this journey to well with you. be well xx
Journey to Well
Skincare Science: The Truth About Inflammaging | Dr. Ebru Karpuzoglu | Aveseena
Dr. Ebru, an immunologist and molecular medicine expert & 4/6 emotional generator, takes us on a fascinating journey through the science of skincare, challenging beauty industry myths while sharing evidence-based approaches to healthy skin.
Fed up with ineffective, overpriced products that damaged her own skin during her PhD studies, Dr. Ebru combined her immunology expertise with cosmetic science to create Aveseena skincare. Her research on estrogen's impact on the immune system provides unique insights into how hormones affect skin throughout our lives - from teenage acne to pregnancy changes to menopausal challenges.
One of the most enlightening aspects of our conversation involves distinguishing between different types of inflammation. While the beauty industry broadly demonizes all inflammation, Dr. Ebru explains that acute inflammation is actually essential for our survival, while chronic inflammation and the subtle "inflammaging" are what truly damage skin over time. This nuanced understanding transforms how we approach skincare problems.
Ready to transform your skincare approach with science-backed solutions? Explore products that work with your body's natural processes rather than against them, and discover why sometimes the simplest routines deliver the most remarkable results.
Connect with Dr. Ebru & Aveseena at Aveseena.com or on IG @aveseena
15% off your order with code : wellwithhannah
Order your discovery skincare kit here : https://www.aveseena.com/shop/face-masks/jetsetter-kit/
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be well, my friend
xx Hannah
Hello, welcome back to the podcast Journey to Well. So today is one of my like nerdy selves dream to talk more about skincare and the science behind skincare and hormones and how our skin changes over time. So today I'm joined by Dr Ibru. She's an immunologist. She founded a skincare company called Avacina. She's also a 4-6 emotional generator, which we were just talking a little bit about human design before we hit record.
Speaker 1:So I like to pepper in a little human design in our conversation so it makes it more easily digestible, which is kind of funny that you, when you reached out to me, one of the things that you said was you like to talk about skincare and the importance of like ingredients, dosage and administration and make it easily digestible for people to understand, and that's all we're going to talk about. So before we get all into that, first of all, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm very excited to chat with you again and I would love for you to give a little intro of yourself. Who is Dr Ibru? What brought you to Avacina and what brought you to where you are today?
Speaker 2:Sure, Thank you, hannah, first of all, for having me and hi everybody. So, as she said, my name is Dr Ibru and I'm an immunologist and a molecular medicine expert, and for years I worked on the impact of estrogen on the immune system and how estrogen modulates the inflammation, why women have a stronger immune system and also, on the other side of the sword, why would they get more autoimmune diseases. So that was, you know, the heart of my research and how Ovecina came out of that research. Because, due to personal reasons and also the beauty industry pissed me off. And here's how.
Speaker 2:So when I was doing my PhD, my skin used to break constantly due to stress, you name it. And, of course, when you're doing PhD, you're working 14 hours, 16 hours a day. You are either not eating anything or binging on fast food when you find it. To be honest, that doesn't help your body or your face from inside out, and when you add the stress on top of it, oh God, it's a bad cocktail. You know it's really bad. So I started breaking out. And when you're a student, every cent counts.
Speaker 2:And, however, I found a way. I got in and went and bought this mint colored skincare brand. You all know it Since the 80s, saying we're good for acne prone skin. And then I got it. I started using it and a week later my skin turned gray. I'm like I'm not kidding you, it looks great. And my husband was like your face looks great. And this morning I'm like what are you talking about? And I looked at the mirror. I'm not kidding you, it's like skin color, but it looks gray, like dream dullness. I don't know how to explain. So I freaked out. Of course, I had to go to the lab and my professor is looking. I was like you know, you look weird. I was like iush, no, we're not discussing that.
Speaker 2:And that's the day when I got really, really mad. Because we have all this science available, we have dermatologists, we have immunologists, we have everybody. And these big companies have tons of money to employ all this science into these overpriced products to offer us better stuff, which they choose not to because it's more profit. Everybody loves a profit who doesn't? But it's not ethical. So I think that's the day when I got mad and said enough is enough, I'm going to figure this out. So I started learning cosmetic formulations, cosmetic chemistry, got into that, and then I decided to combine all the knowledge and background I have in immunology, dermatology, molecular medicine, with cosmetic science, and that's how Avicenna was born.
Speaker 2:And the first testers are my mom and dad, and my dad was a transplant surgeon and a general surgeon and my mom was a oncologist pathologist. Both of them are very hardcore. Every time I discuss them, uh, discuss my research with them, they would be much more tougher than my professor on me saying that, oh, you didn't do this, you didn't look at this paper. I'm like you're not supposed to know everything. They knew everything, believe me. I'm like okay, we'll do this.
Speaker 2:So when they started testing it and my mom and dad put me on the spot it's like I'm defending a new thesis, right? Like, did you do this? Did you do that? Did you do the microbial testing? Did you do this? Did you do that? Did you do the microbial testing? Did you do this? Did you do that? And I was like yes, yes, yes, yes, and this is the principle and this is why we're doing it and this is all the signs of inflammation we're focusing on and blah, blah, blah. And my dad was like kid, you're onto something. You gotta share this with the world. You're doing something good here. This is working, and that's how Avicenna born.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love your dad, by the way. I was like, oh my gosh sounds so hardcore, maybe not growing up, maybe I wouldn't want that dad growing up, but I love that journey and I love that they're able to challenge you and really push you to create this beautiful company. So let's define you've said it a couple of times. Let's define inflammation. What is that? What does that mean?
Speaker 2:So, before we go into explaining what inflammation is. I want to clarify something that the beauty industry and the food industry have been pushing on us for the last year. That is inflammation, and they've been pushing this, saying inflammation is bad, you need to do anti-inflammation, and blah, blah, blah. Okay, let's clarify one thing they don't have one immunologist on board who knows immunology. Okay, okay, you need inflammation. It's the type of inflammation that makes the difference. So if we don't have inflammation, you don't have anything to defend you against microbes. You'll be dead. All of us would be dead, pretty much. So the acute inflammation let's go into the types of inflammation Acute inflammation or systemic inflammation is the one that says okay, there is a bug here and this bug is not good. It could be a bacteria, it could be a virus and I need to defend you. It's your own SWAT team, it's your own army silence. And then it starts the three minute of the day. So, after it defeats the microbes and inflammation goes up during the defense, and then, after it defeats it, it starts going down, starting the healing process, because those tissues, those cells are damaged and needs to be cleaned up, tidied up and healed. However, what is bad is the chronic inflammation. When inflammation is always up, it could be due to lifestyle changes, it could be due to stress, it could be some internal problem going on with a certain kind of disease, like autoimmune diseases, neurodegenerative diseases, that kind of stuff. So inflammation goes up high and it cannot come down. So when it's really high, that is the chronic inflammation. It's always there and it starts attacking you. So that is the inflammation type we do not want to be on all the time. Inflammaging is right in between between acute inflammation and chronic inflammation. So inflammation is the silent, quiet, micro level of inflammation. So it's not as high as chronic, where you're seeing the signs like breaking out or you're getting sick, that you can actually see what inflammation does.
Speaker 2:Inflammation is down, silent. It's doing the trick behind the closed doors but still doing the damage. So why does it happen? Lifestyle, bad night's sleep, bad food, extreme stress everybody's going through extreme stress these days. That increases cortisol and what it does is especially stress. It tells your brain fight or run. But it's not that. Your body is not going to know if you're fighting or running. So what it's going to do it's going to try to conserve energy and resources and it's going to start dimming down everything, dimming down the energy. That includes the energy that goes to your immune system. Okay, so that's why you get sick easier when you're stressed. That's another reason. So, but what it also does, it induces inflammation, that silent inflammation.
Speaker 2:And what does it do? In the long run, you start aging prematurely. That's the one that's reflected on the skin, it mirrors on the skin. You start looking tired, more than ever more dull, more than ever less hydrated, you know. And in the body, your joints ache, you can't sleep correctly, you everything adds up. So that is influencing, and we're the first one, I'm the first one to talk about it in the beauty industry, and now everybody's picking up on it, which is great. I love it. But the most important thing and this is why I wanted to talk to your audience was it's about the correct science, the correct information, not it's about the correct science, the correct information, not scary science.
Speaker 1:I don't believe in scary science.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a good point and something that maybe other people can align with on this podcast and in my community is we talk often I've talked with functional health coaches or nutritionists and we talk about it in terms of food and it's not so much I mean, obviously it is what you're eating but we talk a lot about what you're eating and not when you're eating it or how you're eating it or in what capacity you're eating it, and all of that makes such a huge difference In human design.
Speaker 1:I talk about it a lot because we have a digestion type and that's how not only how we take in food most easily, but also how we take in information and how we kind of digest the world like, process our information, and we all have these different ways that we most easily assimilate food and nutrients. And so why wouldn't that also be applied to skincare, which is? It's not just and that was something that we talked about previously it's not just the ingredients, it's the potency and the dosage of the ingredients. So can you speak a little bit on that, because I think that's fascinating.
Speaker 2:So what you said actually resonates completely with the skin care. So everybody thinks that skin care and that's what industry made us believe that it's something to be fixed it's not something to be fixed. It tells you what's going on inside. It's your body's way of talking to you, right? So when you're talking about information, this could be knowledge. This could be food. Food is also information. It is processed in the body and then your skin says I don't like this, you're not getting enough water or you're getting too much stressful information. So when you say how human design shows how you process that information on so many levels, it's perfect. It perfectly aligns with what your skin is trying to tell you in the morning, say um, I look like crap. Why do I look like crap?
Speaker 2:That's why that's why it's telling you it's like you need to change something there. There's a process problem. So when we go into the ingredient type and the dose, that is very important. So anything like, for example, you're choosing the information that comes into your mind and in your space right like, for example, you don't want to listen any news today, any negative news today, so you don't turn on the tv and you don't get that negative energy. That is a choice. Ingredients and skincare is also your choice. So a good formulator can choose ingredients that work together and place as much as ingredients into a product as possible to make it multitasking. And there is a certain dose for every ingredient and this is how it's determined, either with scientific research, where you can find it on PubMed, or suppliers do their research in their own lab and give you this information sheet saying that, for example, for peptides, you can use it from 1% to 3% and this is the effective range. If you use it less than 1%, it doesn't make anything, but if you use it more than 3%, it's useless. You don't need to. It's like overloading, you don't need it. So this is the sweet point. So a good formulator knows those and selects those.
Speaker 2:However, there are some companies out there that sells, for example, pure powdered niacinamide. This is one of the ingredients, vitamin B3. Why would you sell pure powdered niacinamide? What are you going to do with it? It is crazy. Even in the lab, when we're handling these ingredients, we wear gloves because that's a pure ingredient. So what's? It could cause allergies. The pure ingredient. It's so powerful, it's 100 powerful, right. Why would you sell that? Because in pubmed, for example, for neosinamide, and pubmed is where all the researchers, all the scientists, upload their papers, or you can pull find all the scientific research there. So when you look there, the value, the percentage that neosinamide was studied, was five percent and even at five percent, they saw 90 to 95% positive results. Why would you go above 5%? It's marketing. So marketing is is a good way of selling everything. However, it can hurt the people, so that's where the science gets in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, which is so frustrating, I think, as a consumer, as a generally uneducated consumer, I clearly do not know as much as you. That's so. So how do we find, how do we navigate? I guess this, okay, this might be a good skincare, this might be good skincare for me, I mean yeah, and then how do we figure out, like what's good for me versus what's good for you, what's a good skincare company? I mean obviously yours, but but just to navigate, like, what are good skincare products and not good skincare products?
Speaker 2:Well, one of the things is you don't need 10 products on your face. You don't, and your wallet doesn't need that, right, because nobody's nobody's rich enough to buy poorly made or cheap products.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So there is a lot of. There is a marketing angle out there in the beauty world where they say their product is very cheap, but you know they are not putting the money into the packaging and everything and they sell it very cheaply to the masses. So it makes me think where did you cut the corners to make it so cheap? Because I know all the ingredient prices. They're not. They're not cheap, especially now. They're very expensive. Especially peptides are hard to make. They're made in the lab. They go through all these very rigorous testing.
Speaker 2:None of the stuff that really works is cheap in the beauty world. I'm sorry. Uh, so that's the reality of things. So when you see a very cheaply positioned product, it makes me question where did you cut the corners from? Did you cut it from the size did? Did you buy the products in bulk? If you bought it in bulk, are you using it before the shelf life is over, or is it like effective or is it high quality? I wouldn't touch those because I tried those, by the way, because I was curious. I broke out. It took me a month to fix my face and I was like breaking out everywhere. It was bad. So that's the cheap products side and I was like breaking out everywhere. It was bad. So that's the cheap products side, and then there is a very, very expensive luxury heritage product side, and one of them is Chanel, like one of them.
Speaker 2:And when you look at there and because I'm in the business, I'm looking at things and I'm like this doesn't cost that much. This is not $3,000 cream. I mean, for example, there's one cream's, one cream, lamer. Everybody's in love with it. I'm looking at it looks the same nearly with ingredients. I'm like, uh, I'll go get nivea. Then you know, these are my personal experiences and I can only imagine how confusing it's going to be for a daily consumer. So that is why we're talking about science and all this today with you. So what can you do? What can you do? How can you protect yourself If you can go with the testers? You have a question ask for a tester, because a good company would have a tester set. We have one, by the way. You can get on our website. You can get the discovery kit and it will be 15% off for any of the products you're going to purchase later.
Speaker 2:Because here's the thing we love our cream, but you may not love it. That's personal preference. We know it works, but again, it's personal preference. Yeah, so it's like colors you may like blue, I may like pink. That's easy. So that's why we would like to give that freedom, but most of the big companies don't have a tester kit they sell. They say buy my three thousand dollars cream and if it doesn't work, return it in 30 days. Do you know how hard it is to return anything to the companies? Oh my god. Discuss that. That's another story. So that's one thing. Go for the testers. Test that if you like it, then purchase the big product that's more cost effective. Don't go for the very cheap products, because when you're going for cheap, at the end of the road the result to fix is going to be more expensive you're going to pay more money in the long run.
Speaker 2:Third of all, don't buy five like 10 different creams to solve 10 different problems. Find a cream or a serum or a skincare product that focuses more than one problem. You need a multitasking product. It could be enough to have one cream that does the trick during the day and night. That way, even though if that one would be more expensive because it has more ingredients, more peptides, more hyaluronic acid in it, in the long run you're saving money because you're using less. You are, uh, touching your face less, which is better, because your skin doesn't like to be touched a lot. Remember covid days when we had the mask and it was causing acne? Everybody touched yeah that.
Speaker 2:So three things don't go for the cheap stuff, because it will cost you more. Look for companies that are transparent, has all the ingredients listing and all the signs on their website. If you're not satisfied, email them. Someone should answer you with the answers you need. Three get the tester kit. Try it yourself so you will have a peace of mind. Look for all the tests, all everything you're putting the money in, and this is an investment in yourself. Don't shy away from investing in yourself, and please don't believe in the marketing tricks.
Speaker 1:Six, six things, three things, six things, just kidding.
Speaker 1:No thank you. That's really helpful and I will say I have tried your products, thank you. And something that I would maybe add that I noticed as a difference is you don't really need a lot of, especially the. I mean really everything the face wash Like I just did a couple dabs and the face wash kind of foams really nicely, which is what was really cool for me. Um, but even the serums and the lotion, the, the um, I have it right here, what's it called? Um, yeah, the perfection cream, like it slides on very easily.
Speaker 1:So I feel like some, you know, I also have gone the cheap route in my younger years and you just feel like you have to slather so much on and you go to bed just with these layers and layers, because I have very, very dry, sensitive skin and I've always had that and it has improved in probably in the commitment that I've taken in my skin.
Speaker 1:So it's not quite as bad as it was when I was younger, but I used to. I feel like just have to like lather everything up and then go to bed and I would still wake up with really dry skin. So it's just. That was something that I noted, that I wanted to make note of with you and just for everyone listening if they're interested, is it goes on, so I feel like you really don't need. It's just these little dabs and then it just really slides over your skin very easily and you still feel hydrated, which is very important to me. Not everyone has dry skin, but it's really uncomfortable, you know, to like feel like you have dry skin and you need to put more lotion on all the time.
Speaker 2:Uh-oh, true.
Speaker 1:True, I mean dryness is one of the things. Yeah, I don't know if the internet is going out, but I think it's okay. I think it just blocked us for a minute. We're talking about mercury retrograde, so we're just trying to trying to make it work out here.
Speaker 2:Mercury retrograde we're not in, but right now it feels like it whatever you call it the shadow or what I've been shadowed it's the full moon.
Speaker 1:We had a full moon yesterday, so I think it's the full moon just still doing its thing.
Speaker 2:I don't know what's going on I don't know, if it goes like this at the night, I'm gonna get on the top of the roof and start howling.
Speaker 1:So another thing that you said that I would love to touch on is talking in a lot of I know a lot of your research is on hormone changes and how that affects our skin as we're aging, and that, I agree, I think, is something that we don't really talk about often, especially like pregnancy or menopause. I mean, I think we talk a little bit more about the teenage hormone and like the acne and all of that. I've always kind of heard about that, but not the latter years of our lives, and I know that a lot of your research has been on specifically estrogen, but just hormones and skin fluctuation. So can we touch on that as well? Sure.
Speaker 2:So it's hard to be a female. Okay, as a female, I'm going to say that we don't have a breather. When you're a teenager, you're going through all these hormonal changes. It affects your how you think, your personality, your confidence levels and, on top of it, if you get cystic acne, oh boy, that is not fun. So you go through that. And then when you're in your reproductive years, during the month, we go through these hormonal and I don't want to say mental mental is not a very good word but soul changes. Let's say soul changes, sure, like how you feel, what you go through, what you, what your perception is, and that also reflects on your skin and one of the things that we've been told that you have to, especially during, like teenager years and especially reproductive years. If you're an oily skin, right, you're supposed to use non-oily products, products that doesn't have any oil in it. You have to cleanse, like crazy, crazy, which breaks you out more. So that was the information that the beauty, uh industry pushed on us. But the dermatologist was like no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't wash that much, you don't strip your skin, you're gonna make it worse. But with the social media, the dermatologists are explaining this to the masses saying, no, that is wrong. So that's the thing.
Speaker 2:And as you go through pregnancy, your skin is again changing. Your body is changing. For God's sakes. I mean becoming huge and lots of swelling. It wasn't fun. Everybody's like, oh you must be in bliss. You know you're pregnant. I'm not, I'm just bloated. I want sushi and I can't eat it. I am miserable right now. It's not easy. I mean, it's a blessing we have a very healthy daughter. I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 2:But boy it's hard on the women hard and your husband asks like why? Why are you always complaining? Your feet are so like. Would you like to have a look?
Speaker 1:yeah, they're humongous, I can't wear my shoes.
Speaker 2:But that, all that shows up on your skin again, all those changes, because estrogen is just rocket high when you are pregnant and then you give birth, everything comes crashing down. Yeah, you know, some women go into postnatal depression because it's too hard on them. So they're like like me, I'm like, I don't feel anything, but I'm not okay either you know so but again, your fin, your skin feels after pregnancy, feels like paper.
Speaker 2:Mine felt like dry paper and I was like trying to figure it out, you know. But then after some time it normalized, then you get it start getting into perimenopause. Perimenopause sometimes women break out badly. Badly, I mean, I had that too. Am I a teenager?
Speaker 1:again what's going on?
Speaker 2:I'm like I don't want this. That was the estrogen trying to like going up, going down, going up, going down. So your body, your skin, is trying to say whoops, estrogen is up, okay, let's break out again. Oh no, we're back normal and then you go into menopause. That is not fun. So what, what can you do? What can you do? I mean, men are pretty much stable, like, yeah, they're pretty much stable, uh, but women is like up, down, down, up, up, up down, just a little bit flat up again.
Speaker 2:So all you can do is for your skin is this uh, keep it clean, but not stripped clean. Keep it moisturized, but not overloaded. Don't suffocate it and go for the peptides, go for the good antioxidants, go for the uh, clean ingredients that you would like, and your skin is gonna tell you when you apply it. It's gonna look like oh, I'm so happy, I'm moisturized, I feel good, you know. Or it's gonna look like this is not enough. You need more moisture, change your cream, you know. So, listen to your skin. Look, it's not your enemy, it's your best friend. When it's looking bad, it's a friend asking for help, for helping, for an intervention. Basically, yeah, that's. That's the very summarized version of it.
Speaker 1:I love that. It's your friend asking for help. I love that because I I it. It can be.
Speaker 1:I actually didn't struggle that badly with acne. My sister did, I didn't. I had the dry skin situation I would have like these dry patches, like the red dry patches on my face in the winter, and I had eczema on my body growing up. But it is, it's this, it's this indication. It's our body talking exactly what you said. It's just our body talking and saying, hey, something's not working.
Speaker 1:So what can I try to switch it up and you mentioned this in the beginning, but just, you know, I think it's worth reiterating of it's our skincare and it's also how we're sleeping, what we're eating, the exercise we're getting. I mean, it's so multifactorial and I know that when my skin looks the best, it's when I'm doing all of those things to nourish my body and doing the skincare on top of it. It's not, it's never just one thing. No matter what we're talking about, it's never just one thing is the answer. And so, playing around with all of those things, but yeah, thank you. Thank you for that information. I have one more question and then I want to talk a little human design. There's this serum and forgive me, I did not go online and research it, but it's your microalgae immune B3 serum. I'm so curious about this one. I don't know why I'm just so curious about it.
Speaker 2:What? Why are you curious? Tell me why you're curious.
Speaker 1:It looks different than the other products, it smells different than the other products. It goes on really well. And algae algae just is an interesting word. I'm like what am I putting on my face for real?
Speaker 2:Algae. It's. You know what algae is? It grows in the sea, you know. So it's the extract of the microalgae. It's, um, it's rich in vitamin b12 and we have niacinamide in there, snow mushroom and hyaluronic acid. Okay, yeah, and peptides and, um, you just need a tiny bit of that. Just a tiny bit, not too much, because I like water-based serums and that's like a gel. Yeah, people cannot see it right now. It's like a gel. Uh, sometimes during the summer you don't want to have a cream, especially if you're outside. Those are scorching hot, but still you need to be moisturized and still you may need to have the peptides and the niacinamide and the antioxidants. In that case, the serum is ideal because it's water-based gel and you can put it on just a tiny bit. Just a tiny bit. Two drops is enough for the whole face and the neck and you're done with it. Um, that that's the beauty of it. I mean it. And also it makes more like my pores to look smaller and lifted. It just shrinks them. So I have pores.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have everything.
Speaker 1:I have pores, I had acne, I had everything which is so good to hear the differences, you know, because I yeah, I've I've worked with skincare companies before and everyone has a different story. And I think it's really important to tell everyone's story because we all have different skin and we all have these different things that we deal with yeah, and we have.
Speaker 2:Uh, you didn't have a chance to try those because those just came up. A week ago we came out with a new device called Uncafe Somebody Treatment Device and that is a LED light therapy device. It has three different LED lights and also radio frequency, ems ultrasound, and you can use it on your face and you can use it on your body and here's. And it also has two gels, one for the body, one for the face. All anti, uh a, and I don't want to say anti-aging, I, I'm gonna say preventative aging, you know. So what this does is. Everybody knows the length. Light therapy is a thing now. It's in public, everybody talks about it.
Speaker 2:However, I like the tools out there, but they're so tiny, the surface is so tiny, you have to do hours and hours of application. Okay, you can do it only to the face. You can do it only to the face. I wanted a device that I could do it on my face and on my body, because my body goes through everything that my face, my skin on my face goes through. So why make a discrimination? It's a discrimination, you know. So this device can do the face and the body. It has the LED light, it has all that, so it helps visibly with the tightening. So it's like taking your face to the gym so you can work out your muscles in your body, right. But you can't do it on your face, especially for some people like me. I sag, I sag. I'm getting older, I'm sagging, I'm not wrinkling as much, but that means that I need to work my muscles a little bit more than somebody younger. So that means I need to take my face to the gym. So basically, this device is your facial gym.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love red light therapy. I'm, oh yeah, and you?
Speaker 2:can see the difference how my face lifts up, I mean my face, half of my face is droopy, the other one goes up.
Speaker 1:It is interesting, so fun. Thank you for sharing that. It is so, it's so interesting and I do the red light therapy on my face, on my body, absolutely love it. It really helps with inflammation too and pain on your body, and I love the face aspect of it too. So thank you for sharing.
Speaker 1:Let me pull something from your chart, I think. Really, I think I just want to talk about I always talk about energy centers, but I'm going to talk about them because so for you, are you familiar with the chakra system at all? A little bit, okay. So human designer, human design body graph chart. Like you have I'll show you this and anyone watching like this is your human design chart, so it kind of looks like a body. You have your head up here and then you're like tailbone down here, and so we have all of these centers in our human design chart is what they're called and they're either going to be colored in or not colored in, and a lot of people I really should have the percentage, I think it's only like 20% of people have a defined crown center, so that top triangle, and a defined Ajna, which is the bottom triangle, and you have both of them colored in. So I want to just kind of chat a little bit about that With our energy centers.
Speaker 1:These are our two head centers. Everything else is in our body. So one of the things that I always say when I'm working with clients is look at how many energy centers on your body and that's how much information is coming from your body, versus just our two energy centers in our head. So all of your information, like you said, should be coming from. Most of our information should be coming from our body and listening to our body and how our body is responding and reacting to ingredients sleep, food, rest, stress. So our two head centers, you having the defined crown and defined Ajna anytime we have a defined center or colored in center, it just simply means how I explain it is we have more consistent access to the energy, the characteristics of those centers.
Speaker 1:So our crown is how we like take in information. I always like pull my hands down from my head. It's how we receive information, how we take in information. And then the Ajna is how we process the information, how we then move. That, like all of our thoughts, continue to move down into our body.
Speaker 1:It's how we learn and how we process and how we take in information and having them both defined it means that you consistently take in information in a similar way and you process information in a similar way, which you just you strike me, and I don't know you very well, so I mean, these are like kind of just like outside perspectives, but you strike me as someone that is pretty mentally sound and like a little headstrong almost, and it kind of just makes sense to see. It's just kind of cool to see the defined head center and Ajna center defined. And it's not that we're stubborn or there's nothing like good or bad about having a defined or undefined center, but it's just more the way in which we process the information is more consistent. Versus most people are going to have at least one of those two centers undefined. That means that you're really open. Like you might feel a little bit more mental pressure. You might feel a little bit more open to oh, like I can receive information in all these different ways and like maybe even sometimes a little more indecisive too, which shows up in your chart other places as well. But anyway, that's your little human design tidbit for today I want to close.
Speaker 1:I have one final, just fun question to close with. But if people are listening and they found you very interesting. They want to check out Avicenna. They want to learn more from you. Where do you hang out? Where can they connect with you? Where can they learn?
Speaker 2:more. Visit our website Avicenna A-V-E-S-E-E-N-Acom, and then they can shoot out an email from there if they want, from the contact pages, or if they're more social media inclined, they can find us on Instagram as Avicenna and send us a DM or drop a comment. We always see, we always answer. If it's even light. We still answer.
Speaker 1:I love that, yeah, and I will tag or I'll, you know, list all of that. In the description below you can click the tags. You can follow up that way, okay, so I'm doing a new thing on my podcast. I used to close with the same question every time, and now I have these rotating questions every time. And now I have these rotating questions, okay, so, um, okay, here's your question. Last question what does peak performance mean to you? And this is beyond productivity, beyond being like really productive, but if you look back in your life and you're like this is where I feel I've really hit my peak performance, what does that mean to you? I did my best.
Speaker 2:Oh yep, I did my best. And uh, unfortunately I'm a perfectionist, okay, and my best is a little extreme. I go to town. I'm like we need to do this, this, this, this, this. I have a check missed for it, yeah, but I need to be satisfied. I need to satisfy my urge saying that, did I cover everything? Did I do it right? And uh, was it ethically correct? You know that that is my peak performance, because if I could put my head to my pillow with 100% peace, that is peak performance.
Speaker 1:I love that and it's so funny. You're a generator because or like keyword, as a generator, knowing that you're in alignment is feeling satisfaction, so that's like literally the word we use.
Speaker 2:And in case there's music comes in, I feel no satisfaction. What was that like? Literally the word we use and I feel no satisfaction. What was that? Rolling Stone, rolling Stone song.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh my gosh. Thank you so much for coming on, Dr Ibra. This was such a fun conversation and thank you for educating us and and sharing your wealth of knowledge. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2:For having me, Hannah. I hope we entertained everyone. I think we did.
Speaker 1:Okay.