From Reactivity To Resilience With Nervous System Wisdom | Karen Canham

What if your body knows the answer before your mind can form the question? We sit down with brain-health and nervous system practitioner Karen Canham to explore how somatics, parts work, and bottom-up practices turn constant reactivity into grounded resilience. Karen opens up about navigating a separation without collapsing into shutdown, showing how allowing real feelings can make space for both pain and joy. The conversation moves from theory to practice fast: emotions as information, why the body-to-brain highway carries most of the data, and how to give your nervous system the proof it needs to feel safe.

We unpack the limits of pure mindset work and affirmations when your gut is clenched and your breath is shallow. Karen demystifies top-down vs bottom-up approaches, explaining why sensation tracking, breath, and gentle movement can rewire patterns that thought alone can’t touch. Parts work comes alive here too—hypervigilance, perfectionism, and control are not villains; they’re protectors. Through curiosity and compassion, you can invite your adult self back into the driver’s seat and respond instead of react.

If you’ve felt stuck in work, relationships, or daily stress cycles, this is a practical roadmap. Learn how to expand your window of tolerance, titrate discomfort without flooding, and choose doing less when your system needs it. We talk about seasonality, female cycles, and why childlike awe is not frivolous—it’s regulatory. No gold stars for “healed”; the real win is earlier noticing, kinder choices, and a faster return to center.

Listen for grounded strategies, humane truths, and a fresh way to think about goals that won’t bury you in pressure. If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review—then tell us: where do you feel stress in your body first?

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be well, my friend
xx Hannah

Transcript

Welcomes And Karen’s Introduction

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Hello, welcome back to the podcast. My name's Hannah. We get to talk about somatics today. We get to talk about the nervous system. We get to talk about how the nervous system and the brain come together. So basically, one of my very favorite conversations to have that I haven't had in a long time. So, Karen, I am so excited that you're on the podcast. This is Karen Canham. She focuses on brain health by working with our nervous system. She's also a 2-4 sacral generator. So maybe we'll talk a little bit of human design in this conversation as well. But as always, I'm going to let you introduce yourself. Who is Karen in this moment, in this season and chapter of your life, and anything that you'd like to share?

Living Through Separation With Regulation

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yeah, thanks so much, Hannah. I'm excited about this conversation as well. And the Karen is always evolving, and there's a lot of change in my life right now. I'm going through a separation. And so that has kind of jolted my system and really kind of had me step back and look at things differently. And the process through this, you know, I think of in the past for me would have been something that was disabling even or very shutdown mode. And now my body's handling it so differently that I can continue to show up for people and move through this pain, you know, that I'm experiencing and still feel joy at the same time. So really allowing my system to feel all of that and be in it and be present and be authentic about it, talk about it in a regulated way. And so I'm really excited to, you know, see what comes up next. I feel like there's a big change in my life. And with something I feel like that is painful, that happens in anybody's life, there's always such a huge lesson. And then how can we take that and you know be a better person from it?

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I I love these conversations because not that we want the difficulty to happen or the dregulation, but you're exactly right. When we go through, it's it's it kind of allows you, and it's interesting that it's happening in this period of your life where you've done a lot of nervous system work because it's allowing you to almost see how your body is responding in a real situation. We can't well, I don't know. Maybe I should ask you that. Can we purposely dysregulate our nervous system? Or is this practice kind of authentic of if we're kind of thrown in this situation? Do you know what I mean?

Can We Choose Dysregulation

SPEAKER_01 4:01

I do know what you mean. And I love this. I can tell that you're a deep person and I'm gonna love this conversation. So yeah, I mean, I think we can look at that at so many different ways, right? We can say, like, well, I choose to do drugs, for example, and that can really dysregulate my system. Um, I choose to do something maybe that isn't like as severe of like drink too much, too much caffeine, and that's gonna send me into a sympathetic state. So yeah, I think that we can in a sense. Most of it is probably subconscious when we're doing it. Um, I don't think we're purposely trying to get into these situations. Why would we, right? Um, but yeah, I I mean ultimately when you go through a real, real experience, that's where the growth lies, that's where the work lies. It's being human and it's part of all of our process. And someone that sits in the space and holds space for others. I think it's so important to be real and say, you know, like I go through the same things and we can show up differently and process these things through differently.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

It is super interesting. I kind of laugh back when I started my business, and now I've experienced so much and gone through moments of wild dysregulation that I didn't even really fully understand at that time. But in the beginning of my business, there's so much conversation about things that I hadn't experienced. And now that I've experienced them, you're right. I feel that I'm able to meet not just my clients, but humans on a deeper level. On I'm able to hold space. Obviously, you and I hold hold space for people. So in my breathwork classes, like I'm able to hold a much deeper container than three years ago, Hannah, that hadn't gone through all of all of these situations that happened in my life. And it is an interesting perspective to hold. And I don't think that we can I don't think we all hold that perspective of this pain is teaching me a lesson. And I'm curious where that perspective came for you. Was it a conscious effort or was it was this always how you've handled dysregulation and hardship?

Emotions As Information, Not Facts

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Oh, definitely not always. It was a learned experience that took a while for me to learn. And someone said to me yesterday that um fear is a, how did they word this? No, um emotions are not facts. And I was like, oh yeah, I mean, there is a lot of teaching around that, right? And to me, it's like, well, that's interesting to even connect emotion with fact. It's like it's a it's um information, right? And so to embody that, I think there's a difference of like hearing that and hearing, like, yeah, I mean, that kind of makes sense. Um, and I can kind of think of it as like, oh, my emotions are information or these things that are happening in my life and moving through my system, it's all information. There's a difference between cognitively going through that in your brain and then allowing that to really like embody into your body and become like part of who you are. That process took me a while. And I think with all the work, including breath work that I love so much, um, that somatic piece of it, whether it's breath work or yoga or you know, specific somatic experiencing work that you're doing, those types of things for me were the things that allowed me to embody what I was really the information that I was being given. And then it then it created transformation. I don't think that transformation really comes with information into the brain. So that top-down information. It's great because it helps us to lose some of the shame, I think. Um, but until we can really like get into the body, then it there's there's not like a huge shift that we'll see of how we um show up and how we are in our lives.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

I like that you just brought that that top-down. Can we talk about that? I feel like that's a little, it's like going back to elementary school. Let's learn. But I think that this is a really good foundation to lay for somebody that may not have heard the difference between a top-down approach and a bottom-up approach. Can you uh explain that?

Top-Down Vs Bottom-Up Basics

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah, so a top-down approach would be us learning through the brain. So, like a cognitively, we're learning a concept where a bottom-up approach would be something that we're feeling the sensations into our body. The reason why these are so important is because um our nervous system is acting like a loop from our brain into our body. And it's constantly on a loop, it's feeding information from the brain to the body, the body to the brain. And I think a really cool fact is that 80% of that information is coming up from the body. So so much more is coming from the body than is coming from the brain. And we've been taught to kind of ignore our body. We haven't been taught to listen to our body for sure. And definitely there's um when we try to just change what's happening in our brain, like we might have a thought that comes in, and the thought is not helpful to us. And we just try to, you know, say an amphor affirmation, for example. Yes, there is studies behind that and there is help with that, but it's shutting down information that's coming from our body, and we continue to just push it away and and shut that body down even more, and that's when our nervous system can then get into these chronic places of the dysregulation.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

So, what would the opposite be if we're not saying the affirmation, but we want to feel safer? Or I'll give you two options because I feel like that one's really deep. One option, what what would we do if we're if we instead of saying the affirmation, I am safe, or option two that you could choose is uh like I am, I I am financially stable, or I'm financially successful.

Why Affirmations Fall Short

SPEAKER_01 10:30

I actually love the I am safe. Um and again, I'm not saying it's not helpful, these affirmations and to to say those things. There, there is there is things that are helpful in doing that. Um, but the difference would be is we're kind of tricking our brain when we're just saying, I am safe, I am safe, I am safe. And there could be potentially some rewiring that's happening based off of that. I mean, we are we are changing kind of like our thinking and our thought patterns. Instead of saying, I am not safe, um, then our brain starts to be like, I am safe, and there can be some rewiring that happens there. However, there's a huge difference. It it feels almost like when you're doing that, it's like a it's like a control and like a pushing. It doesn't feel natural. And when we do something where we start to create safety in our body, one of the things that we can use as an example is there could have been an experience that you had that was that was not safe at all, and you still carry with you, and you know that you carry that with you. Um, and part of the work that you can do in the somatic experiencing is revisit that um specific situation and really feel into the body of where where is that sitting currently, and then feel into all those sensations that come with it. You know, what maybe it feels hot, maybe it feels cold, do what color is it? Um, what emotions come along with it? The more that we can um really give it space to be heard, and I know that can sound silly to a lot of people, um the more that it's processed through the body and then it's able to um reform, and those neural pathways are then recreated in the brain.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

I know when we first chatted, we talked a little bit about parts work, and this is sounds like a great intro into your type of parts work that you do. Um I do want to preface it that there's a lot of different parts work kind of coming up in in social media, and like there's traditional internal family systems, there's uh I I don't think that you're trained in IFS, correct?

SPEAKER_02 12:49

No, not specifically.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Okay. So there's yeah, so there's many different types of parts work, and I love all of the different forms, so that's why I want to hear your what you kind of do with your parts work, and then I have a story to share with what you just said. But um, yeah, what is your your definition, your experience with parts work?

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah, so going off the example that I just gave, um when we're experiencing this situation now in our body, then we can start to ask more questions and get more curious. And um we can start to figure out like, there's some hypervigilance that has formed for me. And that hypervigilance, I really feel that in in my stomach area. I'm just giving an example here. And it I feel like closed, I feel collapse from it, I feel like protected. Um, and then we can ask more questions on the curiosity. Well, how is that serving you today? Um, what is it still doing for you? Because these parts everybody has, and um, they're not good or bad. We just need to be more curious about like, are they causing us harm in this present moment? Are they still um acting because they formed for a reason to protect us? Um, and and a lot of times they formed at a younger age. Um, and these they were helpful in that moment, but now as an adult, um, they're really stopping us. They're creating the stuckness in our current life. And so the goal is to form a relationship with these parts and have a better understanding somatically how they feel in the body so that you can have awareness of them quicker. Um, and then you can move yourself back into the driver's seat instead of allowing that hypervigilance to run your life, for example.

Somatics And Revisiting Stored Stress

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Yeah, for me, it's kind of been like building relationship. And I love the question that you said asking it, what is it doing for you right now? Because especially like anxious, feeling anxiety or feeling um nervous or feeling angry, whatever it is, I always feel those heavy emotions and I'm always like, How do I get it to go away? Like, I just feel like it's not serving me right now in this moment. So I like that question that you formulated is how is it serving me in this moment? And then exploring why it's there uh and how it's showing up. And to me, I've I've not done um a lot of traditional IFS, but I've I've I've played around with parts work for gosh, probably like a year and a half now. Um and it is it's kind of building a relationship with these different parts and and it's being able to recognize them a little more easily. And for me, again, I'm such a like I need to know what's going on. I'm a big definitions person. So when I have this, it's like a persona, like an actual person within my body, and I'm able to be like, oh, this is you know, this is so and so. Can't you name them or something too? I feel like some people do that. I haven't done that, but I like that.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah, and you yes, you can give them names, whatever you know feels right for you is what you want to do. I think listening to what you said too, I think it's important to point out that this isn't a multiple multiple multiple personality thing. No, this is exists in everyone. Um, some other common parts that you might see in people is controlling, um, perfectionism, overachieving. And so those might be a little bit more um tangible for people to kind of grasp onto and and seeing those in in themselves or other people. Um, so the this is just a normal part of the human experience. And there's a lot of benefits of not just the awareness of what these are in our system, right? But it's creating compassion. Um, I like that you use that word relationship because it is having a relationship with them, um, respecting them, right? Respecting them for what they're there for and thanking them for everything that they've done for you and you know what they continue to do for you. Um, but again, it's really about taking your adult self and coming back into that place. So a lot of the work that I'm doing is to be else for you to be in a place where you feel really self-led. Um with that is this place of compassion, connection, empathy, um, non-reactivity. Um when we do this type of work too, you know, we're really able to see these things in other people. And ultimately, there's a journey through this process, right? It can feel sometimes when you see it in other people. Maybe it's irritating at first, but ultimately as the work progresses, it really becomes like this compassion piece for other people because you've developed it for yourself and you understand like this is just part of the human experience.

Parts Work Without Labels

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yeah, I think that it does build again, kind of going back to our conversation of building capacity and like having being able to hold that deeper space. That's what I've noticed is you are able to recognize it, but it's not. I'm trying to think. I yeah, I don't think that I have felt, at least at this moment in my life, maybe in the beginning, but at least at this moment, I don't get as frustrated with people because I it's like you can see pretty clearly, like, oh, this is what's coming out right now, and that's okay. That's just where they are, and having more compassion and and being, yeah, less reactive. I know that's the title of your book is from reactivity to resilience, and I love that word resilience. Um, but is that kind of what you're talking about in the book as well? Is this this movement from being very reactive to being resilient?

From Reactivity To Self-Leadership

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah, it is what I'm talking about in the book. And what's interesting is a couple things. So this was something that I really struggled with in my life. So I had childhood trauma, I developed anorexia as a um child, and then got help for that as an adult. And so that was kind of the beginning of my process and my healing process. When I healed from that eating disorder, there was really one main thing that I felt like I just was still such a big effect on me that I allowed other people to affect me too much. Um, and a lot of that was this not understanding these parts that were going on with me and other people. Um, this reactivity to resilience book that I wrote does not speak about parts work at all in it. Um, a lot of tools that I was utilizing before, I would call now as just like a management type of tool. And this is kind of what I was explaining before of, and all of these are great. Don't get me wrong. Yoga, love yoga, that was like the first thing that ever I was able to get into my body. I mean, that is a somatic practice as well. And it was really life-changing for me. Meditation, I talk about, I talk about mindfulness, um, and all of these things are wonderful. And I don't think one thing is the right answer for everyone either. Yeah. Um, so parsework may not be the right answer for you at all. What my experience was and what I found with a lot of my clients is that these things worked, um, and we saw a decrease in their reactivity level, their stress level. Um, but there wasn't like this big shift in the way of being. It was like I have to continue to utilize these tools to like bring me back. I constantly need to bring myself back into this regulation, regulated place. It didn't seem like it was sustaining the person. I should have done more data on this, and now I try to, so I have a better like starting point, but it seemed like there was this. I'm just I'm really reactive, right? I'm like at a 10. Every day it's like a 10. And then, you know, now I'm using these lifestyle changes, these medical lifestyle changes. And now, you know, most of my days I would say I'm more like a five, but I feel like I'm it's like a management tool. I'm managing myself and I don't want to feel that way. Some people are are cool with that, right? But there was some people that was like, it just still feels like I'm I'm managing this symptom that I have, and there has to be a better way for me to just be in my life. Like I don't want to feel like I did when I was a child, where you know, I had all this wonder, and you know, I was like flowing and it was playful. And um that I really got, and I feel like the nervous system work and regulating the nervous system is the answer for that.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Interesting. Yeah, it's almost like kind of a band-aid too, and not, I mean, we have I think that we have helpful band-aids and and and maybe ones that are not as helpful because we can say alcohol is a band-aid too. Like, I mean, you're definitely covering up the symptoms of not feeling ultimately or drugs or or running a lot and getting all of those endorphins and maybe escaping, I don't know, going to the gym a lot and escaping being home, or yoga or breath work. I think that they're all some tools are very helpful and some are hurtful. And some tools are gonna work for you and some aren't. But the nervous system regulation. So what is that?

Tools That Manage Vs Tools That Transform

SPEAKER_01 23:15

The nervous system regulation is a different way of showing up that is rewiring your system and it's sustainable and it's held. I guess I can explain it as a lot of the work that we're trying to do with getting into the body and feeling these feelings and exploring like these parts as we're trying to create safety. All of the things that have happened to us throughout our life, there's our system responds with, okay, that didn't feel good to me. So I'm going to create this part in order to protect myself. And they just continue to pile on, pile on, pile on. And when we're able to let those things release, then we're able to get back into that state like we were in a childlike state. I can say that the regulation piece I like to point out is it is normal for us to be on the spectrum. So it's normal for us to feel activated in states that, you know, feel a little bit more like anxiety, you know, like this go, go, go, more of a hyper state. And it is also normal for us to be like, I feel depleted. It's when we get in these places where it becomes chronic, where it starts to become an issue for us. Um, it becomes an issue for us in our daily lives of how we show up in relationships. Um, you know, there's chronic conditions that can develop from that as well. And so ultimately what we're trying to do when you talked about capacity before, is our capacity really can shrink, you know, with all of these things that we go through. And then we start to create these protector parts, the capacity that we have to be in these discomfort zones of activation and like shut down. Um, we're we're really getting shortened and shortened and shortened. And so the work that we're trying to do is we're trying to create safety of feeling into these zones. Um, and so that your body starts to understand like there's not a reactivity to it when we are in a heightened state or we're more like in a shutdown state.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Does that make sense? Absolutely, yeah. How do we expand those zones? How do we expand our capacity? Is it by making ourselves uncomfortable? Is it by doing the harder things? What does that look like?

What Regulation Actually Looks Like

SPEAKER_01 26:01

I think we can can and again, everybody's different, but I think we can expand our capacity in different ways. And it's really up to you on like what you're what you want things to look like for you. Um, when we talk about capacity, I mean there's people that, and there's nothing wrong with this, so I don't be careful how I say this, but there's people that are like, um, I work a nine to five job and I'm paid$20 an hour and I continue to do it, and it creates a lot of stress for me. It creates financial stress for me, you know, and it just piles on. Um, but when I think about the alternative, when I think about like, you know, if I were to move forward and I were to move forward with like this business that I have, my system becomes very activated. And then so I go back to this like safety place. Um, so it doesn't have to be something that is like this traumatic experience that we could have experienced that we're like feeling into, that can be part of the work that someone wants to do. But it can be more of like understanding um why, you know, why is my system doing that? Why am I reacting in that way? And ultimately now I know like this is not what I want to do. Like I'm not happy um in this role because I don't really get to use like my skills, you know, I'm struggling financially, like all these things. So we're we're describing something that feels like a stuckness. Um, the capacity piece of it, we can also kind of describe that as the window of tolerance. Um, so when we look at that, and I I kind of like this analogy because a lot of times when I say capacity to people, people are like, I don't want to do more. And it's not about it's not about doing more when we say increase your capacity, it's about being able to handle more. And um again, that doesn't mean taking more on. It means that my system is able to handle more and more stress. We can describe it that way, and I'm not responding to it. And therefore, when I don't respond to it, then I have more energy to focus on the places that I want to focus on too. Um, so to increase this window of tolerance, we can do something that is like, yeah, I um was in this accident when I was in college, and like the porch fell at this apartment building, and people were hurt, and it was like really traumatic. We can feel into that, right? Where is it into our body? How does it still sit with us today? How is it still affecting us in this present moment? Um, but we can also do something that is more of like this job component of like, I just feel stuck and I I don't understand why I can't like move out of this place that I'm in. And we can look at that somatically and then parts work-wise.

Capacity And The Window Of Tolerance

SPEAKER_00 29:06

That's super interesting because I do hear that a lot is I feel stuck and I don't know what to do, or I don't know how to get out of it. So that's an interesting invitation that we can look at that somatically instead of just looking at it as the situation of I feel stuck in my job and I don't know what to do. And I think that's a really cool that's a cool approach to be like, hey, what if we just instead of brainstorming ways, right? Of like, well, you could do this job or you could apply here, you could shift your career, you could go back to school, is not necessarily changing it. And that's one of the things that I love the most about somatic work is that often when we're unhappy, we think that something big needs to change. And sometimes it does. I'm not saying it doesn't. Sometimes we get to the point where we're like, okay, yeah, no, I do need to leave that relationship or I need to change my job or I need to move. But we don't always have to start with that. We can start in our body and how how can we feel into the discomfort? How can we sit in and expand again? Expand that capacity. It's not necessarily, I love that you said it's not about doing more, it's being able to hold more because that's a very, that's a very, I'm sure that comes up with you a lot too, but that's a really good point. It's not always about doing the big thing, making the big change. Sometimes it is, but it's not always.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah. A lot of times, um it really is about doing less. And I hesitate to say that too, because I there's a lot that people have on their plates these days. Yeah. Um, you know, they're wrangling in their kids, they're taking care of their elderly parents, um, they're working, and you know, not to mention just the the world that's so fast-paced, things are changing so quickly, um, the political environment, like all of these things, right, are real. Um, but it's really, I had someone yesterday say to me who is very much in a sympathetic state. And um, I've known this person now for probably a year, and every time I see them, their energy is very sympathetic. Um and it was interesting to me that people, a lot of people that come to me, they they feel like there's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of pressure to show up in a certain way. Um, there's a lot of pressure for them, for their children to be a certain way as a mother. There feels like a lot of pressure on like how much responsibility they hold of like, you know, what school their child gets into or ultimately, you know, how they end up. Um, and you know, that I have to do all of these things. You know, I have to um cook three meals a day. I have to um, you know, I have to take my daughter to all these places because she has to be in all of these things. Um, you know, my house needs to be like clean. I feel like I'm constantly cleaning. And um I think a lot of times when people come to me, they're like, well, these things need to be done and I'm not wrong in what I'm doing. And so to start to think about like, it's really not, it's not a place of being right or wrong. So to like reframe that type of thinking, it's more of like, what is it that you really want? Let's just pause here for a minute because a lot of people can't even answer that question when I ask them that. Um, and so to be able to get into the body really helps with being getting clearer, clearer and clearer on what it is you really want, and so that you can align the things that you're doing to get you to the place that you want to be.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

And and sometimes starting with what you don't want. I think that was actually on a podcast that I posted a couple weeks ago. Um, but if you don't know what you want, start with what you don't want. What do you, what do you what is not working in your life or what do you not want to continue in your life? Keep accepting in your life. Um, and accepting, I mean, yeah, like mindset and and physically, you know, like I I I don't want a relationship where I'm spoken to disrespectfully. Like focus on that, and then you can start there. Okay, so you want maybe a relationship that is grounded in respect and mutual respect for each other. Like that's that I don't know, that that is sometimes helpful because you're right. One of isn't that like the biggest question is what what what am I here for? Like, what do I want? And a lot of times you're right, we don't. I think that's a really hard, a hard question to ask ourselves. And how would we address that in the body then? Like, where do you start? What are if you have any tools, just even as listeners are listening right now, and they're like, I so resonate with this, I have no idea what I want. In in maybe one area, so choose one of the big ones, like relationship, career, family, um money. I don't know. I don't know what the other big ones are. Um where do we start there?

Doing Less To Feel More

SPEAKER_01 34:49

So this is really interesting to me. And I was on a podcast recently where it was like, I don't do goals, and I know that can sound really awful. Um I feel like goals can create so much pressure. And why are we creating that goal in the first place? Um I really like where you're saying, I think it is much easier to start with, well, I don't want to keep reacting. I don't want to keep reacting to to my husband. And then we can ask deeper questions. Well, why don't you want to? Um, I really don't like who I am, you know, when I when I respond in that way. And if I were to record myself and see myself, I would be embarrassed by the way that I looked. I don't want my daughter to see me like that. Um, but ultimately it creates, I mean we can go deeper and deeper, and then it's like, you know, it creates, it creates a lot of stress on my body. And I've seen, you know, my mother, um how much stress she's gone through, and then like health conditions she's had from it, and I don't want to end up in that place. Um, so yeah, you're right. Like a lot of it is like people get to the breaking point of like, this is not working for me anymore. And it's really about like, how do we shift what isn't working for you anymore and find a new way of being? Um as far as like I think, especially in like entrepreneurship, people are like, well, how much money do you want to make this year? And I always laugh at that question, and then I'm like, I just don't think that way. Maybe I'm a terrible business owner. Maybe it's creating a lot of problems for me. I don't know, but maybe I need to work on my money more, which I know that I do, that I still need to work on like my money wounds more. Um but it it feels um that's not why I'm here. It's not about the money to me, it's about how I feel. So if it can focus on how I want to feel while I'm creating this business, that is going to be the thing that keeps me moving forward. Now, I don't think everybody's that way. Um, some people will be like it really does move me forward to say, like, my goal is to make$500,000 this year. Um and most people, I'll be honest, most people I work with are not that way. Most people I work with tend to be more visceral. Um, so a lot of times what I see when we get into that, or like I want a um, I want to have like 20%. That'll even be normal. No, that would be really high. I want to have like 12% body fat as a female. Yeah. Um, you know, like those things, what I've seen in my experience, because my whole uh wellness business started more with like nutrition and and exercise. Um, and it was a lot of like these external things that you want, right? I want these external things, um, and that's gonna bring me happiness. And ultimately, it doesn't. It never does. Um, and it also feels like a lot of like pushing type of energy, like striving um to get to these places and just continuing to override your system. Like right now, a good example would be like the the situation that I'm in. I've slowed down. Um, you know, my exercise, it's like I don't um I don't go and do like a very intense workout because I know it feels more stressful to me when I'm done. Um and so really having that awareness of like what's coming up for you in your body is helpful to then choose like what's gonna be the best choice for me now. Maybe it's just like some slower movements that I need to do, and like that's enough.

Finding What You Want In Your Body

SPEAKER_00 38:43

And I love I love that because it's you said right now, because it's okay to change it. And that's one of the other things that I do in my business is talk about cycles. Like our cycle as a female is going to maybe we're in luteal phase and we're like, yeah, we don't want to go do a hit workout or try to hit some PRs, weightlifting. But then three weeks later, two, two to three weeks later, we're in our ovulation phase and we're like, yeah, I would love to do that HIT workout. And I do think that we limit ourselves a lot by putting ourselves in these boxes of like, oh, I'm I'm just somebody that doesn't do intense workouts, or I'm just somebody that doesn't do, you know, X, Y, or Z. And if you can meet yourself where you're at, also seasonally, right? I mean, I know you're in you're in Florida, but it's still cold for you, no matter where you are. If you're in the winter, you have that energy of winter, and we're just not really created as humans to go be doing that again, that like kind of summer ovulation phase stuff. And I know a lot of people are I've been talking to and they're like, We're I'm feeling I'm feeling the winter, and being okay with that, and I love that you're sharing being in your why, being grounded in your why. Like what that's what I always used to say with fitness stuff, especially. It's easy to talk to because if you talk to the gym culture, they're like you can't take a day off, you have to go hard if you don't, if you're not in pain at the end of your gym workout, then you're not doing it right, like all of those things, and being rooted in why am I going to the gym? What am I wanting to get out of it? And for me, I can only speak of my journey is my health, like physical health journey is I want to feel good in my body, and I want to move my body because I love my body and I know that I feel better when I'm moving. And when I allow that to be my why, then it's like, okay, I didn't have to go to the gym and do a HIT workout today. I just went for a hike, or I just went for a swim or I did yoga or Pilates, whatever works for you, whatever you feel in that that season, then you're still achieving your goal. Or I guess you don't do goals, but you're still achieving what you want, right? Versus I want to go to the gym. Okay, why? Because somebody told you that you need to go to the gym five times a week. Like, what are you hoping to get out of that? I think that's really that's really important. And I like your not goals, especially. I mean, we're talking in January, this will probably be posted in February, but still the beginning of the new year. I just had a conversation with someone else, and yeah, we were like, don't do goals, goals goals are out. I feel like we're kind of getting to the point where it's not, it does create a lot of pressure. I like that perspective though. It creates a lot of pressure, and I think I talked about that on that podcast, but we set goals and we don't know the why. Like, why is your goal to lose 20 pounds? Why is the number 20? Do you need to lose 20 pounds? Do you is you how are you gonna achieve that? I don't know. There's so much we could go down a whole spiral. Yeah.

Goals, Pressure, And Real Motivation

SPEAKER_01 42:15

I love just listening to you because it is like this. What you were describing is like being a child again. And I was like picturing my niece too. It's like she doesn't think about um, you know, she's not like, well, I have to get my steps in. You know, she's not she's not thinking like that. She'll just say, like, okay, I feel like I'm gonna go for a walk. Let's get outside, you know, and it's just very innocent and natural. And when we can be more in that state, we're so much more creative and there's so much more clarity. All of this stuff that's put on us, it just starts to create so much like cloudiness and energy sucking. And it really takes us away from who we, what our true nature really is.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

I love your you spoke of like, yeah, going back to the awe of a child, and absolutely that's why I love just watching witnessing children. If you don't have them in your life, I don't know, go to a restaurant and just watch kids, like they are hilarious, first of all. I was just saying, I was just hanging out with my nephew literally before we hit this podcast. He's 10 now, but he just says so off the wall stuff and does so off-the-wall stuff that they're hilarious, but watch them, and you're right. Like, yeah, I feel like I need to go outside. Cool, go do it. Like, or the awe, absolutely. Like, how can I create more of that awe effect? And we can do that as adults, but would you say that that comes when we have a regulated nervous system, or can we experience it still in dysregulation?

Seasonality, Cycles, And Movement

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Um I think that because from my experience, I've been chronically dysregulated and I've worked with a lot of chronically dysregulated people. And when I say, like, when we're chronically dysregulated, we're stuck in a certain zone, whether it be in that sympathetic place or that shutdown place, that doesn't mean that we still don't experience part, you know, regulation as well. It's this that we're we're there way too much. Um so yes, I do think that you can experience that when you're dysregulated, but it's few and far between. Yeah, I think that when you start to come into this regulated place, I'm really trying to find a better word to describe that as well. Um it really is this sense of feeling healed, which I'm trying to find a better word for too, because I think that can bring up a lot of shame when we use that word of, you know, oh, now I'm healed. And and, you know, maybe other people aren't healed or. Healing is a journey to me too. So I don't think there's ever like an end. Um, yeah, it's just a very different way of being. I mean, we can look at a child, right? And we can see like a very different way of being in the world than you know, most likely what we are as an as an adult, and we can really take a lot from them. And I think a lot of people are like, well, that's not possible. I mean, I can't operate right, I operate in that way. I can't operate that way in my career, um, or you know, my as a parent. And then us then we ask those deeper questions of like, well, what does that mean? You know, what what feels scary about that to you? What's gonna happen if you operate in that way? A lot of people feel like they're gonna lose everything, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Yeah. Oh gosh, there's so much there because it is a fear of of change and not knowing and the unknown. And and I think that we heal on levels. I think that's how I like explaining it is we're never fully healed. We never arrive because it what's that like joke? Like if if the destination is the goal, then it's death. Like death is the destination. So why are you making like the arrival the goal? We never arrive anywhere, but we do heal on levels. So even trauma, I mean, we do heal our trauma on the level that we can in this moment in this season, in our capacity, in our nervous system capacity for this, you know, Friday at 150 p.m. Like we can we can do that, but then there's another trigger that's gonna come up. Maybe it's five years from now, and it's but it's a deeper healing, and you can go into a deeper level. And and I think healing and and um our journey is this I don't even know what that shape is. It's like when it spins down, like a cyclone, like a hurricane. A tornado, a tornado. Yeah, like a tornado, a cyclone. I don't even know what a cyclone is. So I don't know why I said that. Like a tornado, that shape that we're that we're going down constantly. We're able to go deeper if we choose to go deeper. But yeah, we're never fully healed. We're never we never arrive at our destination until I guess until we die.

Childlike Awe As A Nervous System Cue

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Yeah, I really love that you said that. And I think that's why I hesitate to use those words because what was popping up again for me was just like a lot of pressure. And I think when people are in this journey, I've seen so much, which started like with yoga of like reaching enlightenment, right? And then like other modalities, it's like there's so much pressure to get to that point, and then there's a lot of shame that's created, you know, that I'm not to that point. And then a lot of things like judgment where people are and aren't. And um, yeah, it's just not um, I maybe there might be people on earth that that are at that place, like maybe the Dalai Lama's at that place, but it's not um, it's not the goal. The goal to me is to really um continue to be a better version of yourself and um love, love yourself and love others.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

I love that. When people are wanting to connect with you, continue to learn from your beautiful wisdom. How can people stay connected? Where do you hang out the most? Where can people find you?

SPEAKER_01 48:58

So that's a great question because um they can find me online. I mean, they can just Google Karen Unwellness and pick their poison of whether they're an Instagram user or LinkedIn user. Those are the two social media platforms that I tend to use. Um, and my website's there as well. Um, and you can always reach out to me. I'm happy to have any conversation.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

I you're the second person that I met that uses LinkedIn a lot. And I don't know if this is a sign. I feel like I'm not a LinkedIn person, but maybe, maybe it's a sign. Um, last question. If you could go back and gift your younger self a somatic tool or perspective that you now use often, what would that tool or perspective be?

SPEAKER_01 50:02

I would say when other people are um communicating with me from their parts, which I wouldn't understood at that moment. But if I would have understood that, um I would have paid a lot more attention to what was happening in my body. I guess I wouldn't even have to know that. I would just say, like, when I was in my 20s, I wish I would have paid a lot more attention to what was happening in my body when I was around other people, because it gives you so much information um about like then the direction that you should move on based on what that communication is telling you.

Healing As Ongoing, Not A Finish Line

SPEAKER_00 50:48

That's wild. You're you're reminding me that my mom used to share, she used to ask me, like, how did you feel after you hung out with that person going on a first date, right? That's a really great example. But going on a friend date or hanging out with someone at work, coming out of that and and checking in with like, how do you feel? Do you feel energized? Do you feel tired? Do you feel frustrated? Do you feel joyful? Do you you're a you're a sacral authority too? So in human design, like do you feel lit up? Do you feel energized? Do you feel open or do you feel closed and like contracted? Does my my belly used to hurt when I was a child? Like that's how my mom knew that something was wrong. Um, and so noticing that, like, does your belly hurt? Do you have like that knot in your stomach, or what do people say, like that kind of like a drop in your gut or whatever? And noticing all of those things, you just reminded me that my mom would ask that. Like, how do you how did you feel hanging out with them? And you're right, it tells you a lot. A lot, yeah. Yeah, that's great. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for coming on. I love love our conversation, Karen. I appreciate your time, your wisdom, your depth of communication and exploration. And I am very excited to share this conversation with with my audience and my community.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

Yeah, thanks so much, Anna.