Breaking Free from Clutter Chaos: A Chat with Dana K. White (Part 1)

Part 1 of 2! The second half of this episode will be released on Wednesday, January 8th.

In this episode of 'Organizing an ADHD Brain,' host Megs welcomes Dana K. White, the author of 'Decluttering at the Speed of Life.' Dana shares her journey to a functional home, discussing practical strategies that work for ADHD minds, even without a formal diagnosis. They explore the importance of daily habits, the value of starting small, and how to let go of items without getting bogged down by their perceived value. The episode emphasizes progress over perfection and offers listeners insights into Dana's step-by-step method to tackle clutter. Megs also provides information about her upcoming ADHD-friendly membership launching on January 15th and her personalized 90-day coaching program.

01:27 Dana K. White's Journey to Decluttering

07:18 Daily Habits and Dishes Math

13:01 Letting Go of Assigned Value

19:07 Practical Steps to Decluttering

25:37 Conclusion and Upcoming Opportunities

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Transcript

0:43

Welcome back to organizing an ADHD brain. I'm your host. Megs your professional organizing coach with ADHD here to help women like us finally get organized. Starting right where we are. Today, I'm thrilled to bring you an incredible guest. Dana K white, the brilliant mind behind a slob comes clean. I also talk about her book on the show, quite a bit decluttering at the speed of life. Dana's practical, real life approach to decluttering and organizing. Has changed so many lives. And I know you'll walk away from this episode with tons of valuable insights. Although never actually diagnosed with ADHD. There's a lot of people on the internet that like to diagnose Dana with ADHD. It's fascinating to talk to her about the things that she's adjusted in her life to adjust to her brain and that it works different, whether she knows she has ADHD or not. And I think that's, what's so key. About this conversation is that it's okay. If you don't get a diagnosis, as long as you figure out how to work with your brain instead of against it. Before we dive in. I just want to remind you that my ADHD friendly membership is launching on January 15th. It's a supportive community where you'll learn practical strategies to build consistency, stay motivated and organize your life in ways that work for you. You can find all the details in the show notes. Now let's get started with Dana.

Megs: 2:09

I am so honored to be sharing the stage today with Dana K white She wrote the book decluttering at the speed of life And if you are not new here, you know that I talk about this book all the time I think that it's reshaped the way that I've Adjusted my own decluttering process in my own home. And Dana, I just want to thank you so much for not only what you do because this is more of a business, but also for writing this book and talking about your own experience. It's inspired me so much to not only think about writing my own book, but to also do the damn thing and to make progress in a way that we feel like we can actually do it versus literally just, doing one thing at a time. So thank you for being here

Dana: 2:50

Thank you so much for having me on. It means a lot. I know that you are the ADHD expert. I personally, I've never been formally diagnosed, but I've sure been diagnosed a lot on the internet, but I get very lovely and well meaning emails and comments on a very regular basis that say, Hey, you Did you know that you might have ADHD? And I'm like, okay. I just know what works for me and it. tends to work for people who have been diagnosed with ADHD. So whatever that means I'm thankful for you to have me on because it means a lot to me to have that validation that this has been helpful.

Megs: 3:33

Thank you for saying that. What's really neat about the ADHD community is that there's a lot of people out there that are just exploring a diagnosis and have not been formally diagnosed. That's okay. It's okay to find things that work for you, that make sense for your brain. Because just because you have ADHD doesn't mean that you fit in a box and now you can only go this way. It's about experimentation and really finding what works for you. And I think that's brilliant that you found what works for you. And, oh, the internet for diagnosing you with ADHD because that's such a real thing.

Dana: 4:09

sure. Yes,

Megs: 4:10

Yeah. Tell us a little bit about you. What do you do aside from writing books? Are you decluttered in your home? Tell us everything.

Dana: 4:18

Everything. Okay. I'm 50, so that's going to take a while, but my story is basically that I was a complete mess, like I was completely overwhelmed by my home. I am an intelligent woman. I'm very driven to do things. And so the fact that I was generally able to. Figure out things, but I couldn't figure out my house was a huge source of frustration and shame, honestly, for me, because I was like the way my house functions and the bewilderment I feel over my house does not fit with who I am. Like it should not be this hard. There are other people out there who don't seem bewildered. And I don't, it's we're speaking different languages. I don't know. I would ask for help. People say, Oh, just do this or this. And I'd be like I've tried that, So I started writing. Because I wanted to be a writer. Yes. I wanted to get my house under control, but my real drive was that I wanted to be a writer. And I was stopped from writing because I was like, I've got to get my house under control. I can't take on this thing that I desperately want to do. And I know myself, I know I throw myself into projects. And so it will just be one more thing to get my house. To take my focus off my house that I've got to figure this out. So I combined those two things and thought I was doing a temporary practice blog in the beginning. I was like, okay I'll figure out my house. It was anonymous back then. It's I'll figure out my house. It'll take me what, two or three months. And then I'll start writing about things that I felt qualified to write about. And instead I ended up in a situation where This is what I'm still doing. I'm still writing about 15 years later. It also helped me see that the brains of naturally organized people are very different from my brain. And so that's why the typical advice had never worked for me because it's usually written by organized people. And so

Megs: 6:17

Right.

Dana: 6:18

yay for them and it's all great advice, except that it did not work for me because my brain. Just was not like theirs, right? Not bad, not good, just was different. And so I had to figure out what did work for me. So what do I do? Yes, my house is functional. And that's actually what I now know was my real goal. Yes. I thought I needed a magazine house, right? Like I, of course you look at magazines and you're like, Oh, are magazines is still a thing, but like you look at Pinterest houses now and you think that's what I want my house to look like. That'd be so great. And then yet in reality, I actually wanted was to be able to function in my house. So I got my house decluttered. Thought I needed to get organized. I actually just needed to de declutter, right? Got my house decluttered and I was like, oh, I don't care so much about my house being magazine worthy, but you know what? I love being able to open my front door at a moment's notice. I love, being able to do the things in our house that we need to do. I love being able to. Have it not be stressful to cook dinner. Cause I actually enjoy cooking dinner, but cooking dinner was stressful because I first had to clear the countertops and it was this big, so just the function of it, because my house is decluttered. It allows me to live the life I want to live. And also I enjoy the entrepreneurial thing. Like I really, yes, I love writing. I also really love. Building my business, I've expanded it into different ways. I have podcasts and YouTube and I train decluttering coaches now. I enjoy the building of the business and I'm able to do that because I got the clutter out of my house. So it's not holding me back anymore.

Megs: 8:01

Oh my gosh, I love everything that you said and it resonates with me tenfold. And you said in the beginning that you thought that this was just a, gonna be like a two or three month thing and then just move on, like I've gotten my house under control. Did it really take you two to three months to get your house into a place where you felt like it was under control?

Dana: 8:22

Oh no, it took longer than that for sure. What I did in the beginning was I basically gave up on. Everything I'd ever tried before and just been like, okay, I'd read the books. I'd made the note card systems and the flip thingies and the, all the kind of stuff I'd done it all. And it never worked. I don't know if this is video or not for putting it out there, but like I'm using air quotes here because it never worked. The reality was I didn't stick with it. Or that I. Zeroed in and did great for a little while. And then life happened a lot of times, fun things in life happened, right? Like I started working on a theatrical production or whatever, and I'm like that's not my focus anymore. And so then it went back to being a total disaster. And, and so I felt like it didn't work. I was really starting from rock bottom, like a place of shame and a place of frustration. And I just was like, you know what? People whose houses are under control do not spend five hours cleaning their kitchen. I spend five hours cleaning my kitchen. Their kitchens don't need five hours of work. So I'm going to focus on my kitchen. And I was like, what is literally the smallest thing that I could do? And I just decided I'm going to keep my dishes done. That's it. I'm going to keep my dishes done because other people don't have piles of dirty dishes the way that I always do. So I just focused on that and I focused on it every day. And after about seven days, I was like, okay, I feel like I get it now. I talk about dishes, math, right? Like dishes, math is I, because it always took me five hours to do the dishes because I was always waiting until I didn't have any more clean dishes. And because it took me five hours, I would do the math in my brain and I would be like if it takes me five hours to do the dishes after five days of not doing the dishes. Then obviously, I'm an intelligent person, right? I can do math. So that means if I was to do them every day, that would be an hour of work every day. And I don't have an hour to spend doing the dishes. And so it just didn't make sense. But when I did them every day, I was like, dishes, math doesn't work that way. Dishes math is this, which I know like girl math and all this kind of stuff, Disney math. Now talk about this. I've been talking about dishes math a long time before they started talking about So dishes math is that five. Days worth of dishes might take five hours. One day's worth of dish dishes takes 15 to 20 minutes, but I had no concept of that. When I did all the dishes and I caught up and then I actually did them the next day, instead of being like, wow, that was great. And then I can not do the dishes today. Cause I did them yesterday. No, if I did them again the next day before it even felt worth it to do them, okay. Then it only took 15 to 20 minutes. If I missed a day, if I waited two days then it took an hour. So it's not just double the time. It's because there's so much more involved, right? Like you can't get it all in one load of the dish washer, or you can't fit them all on one drying area. It's Oh, there's all these things that have to be moved around. And when you wait three days, now you're back to hours. And so it was like, Oh, okay. If I will do this every day. It actually changes everything in my house. And so I really started by focusing on daily habits because I'd always thought, what is the point of daily habits? When my house is a disaster, let me get my house perfect. And then I'll do the daily stuff to maintain it. And in reality, the actual turning point was in going ahead and doing the daily stuff, even before my house was under control, even while my house was a disaster. Like literally doing the dishes every day changed everything. Like it, it did now in the midst of that, I was decluttering as well, which I had more time to do because I didn't have to start in my kitchen. You know what I mean? This whole, okay, I've got to get clean. And so I'm going to start in my kitchen. I spent five hours there, use up all my energy was done and never got to the decluttering. But when the dishes were done. Every day or almost every day in 15 or 20 minutes. Then I had Oh, I can work on other things. And I would work on decluttering. So getting the clutter out was equally as important, but I always say, start with the dishes. Like they're both important, but start with the dishes. But it freed up so much time and mental energy for me to be able to focus on decluttering. And the more stuff I got out of my house, the more I was like Oh, my house is easier and easier for me to handle. The more stuff I get out, right? So that's the clutter threshold, which I didn't know was a thing because I hadn't made it up yet, but it basically was like, I decluttered and I decluttered. And all of a sudden one day I was like, Oh, my house is not constantly going straight back to being a disaster. And I went, Oh, it's because I have so much less stuff that even when life happens, there's so much less stuff to end up out and everywhere. And yeah, and there were actual places to put things when I did go. To starting, to work on my house, which there weren't before. I just had so much more stuff than I had places for.

Megs: 13:43

Oh my gosh, thank you for sharing that experience because a lot of my clients and a lot of people showing up to listen have this mentality like they know what they want and sometimes it is that Pinterest magazine worthy look, but they also know that they want it immediately. And so breaking it down into the smallest tasks imaginable, especially with ADHD, where our executive function doesn't work that well, we can't break it down into small tasks. It makes it so much more difficult to start to tackle it and to start to see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And because of our creative brains, we have a thing that we could use this thing in our hands for everything. And so letting go and understanding that like we don't have to have a job for everything is such a huge aspect. And I will say the thing that you helped me with a lot Is not assigning a value to everything because that's another thing that we do is that if we bought it, we feel like someone needs to pay money for it in order for us to get it out of our home. And honestly, that's another full time job is like selling things on Facebook marketplace or Craigslist or wherever. Then not only have you made a decision to get it out of your home, but now you have to make a decision on what is it going to cost? How much is it worth to you? But then also how much is it worth to someone else who's actually going to buy it? And then taking pictures and listing it and making sure that people see it and if they don't even see it now you put all this effort into something getting out of your home and you've already assigned a value to it, which makes it harder for it to leave. How did you start to make peace with letting go without the assigned value?

Dana: 15:23

So a couple of things there. Actually there's probably four or five, 10 things there that we can talk about.

Megs: 15:28

Yeah, Yes.

dana-k-white_1_11-07-2024_120057: 15:29

this is so valuable and I'm glad we're talking about it because so that the simplest answer I have to give is if the idea of value is stopping you from letting go of things. Pick the one thing that you're most confident is valuable and go through the process on that one item. Do whatever you have to do. If you've been telling yourself, if you've been tripping over something and there are some people, but I'm pretty sure people in this audience get it, but there are some people in other audiences that'd be like why would someone trip over something for months? I'm like, Cause that's what we do. Like I just would, but if you've been tripping over something for months or years and saying, I need to get rid of that. Oh, I think that would sell on eBay, but I don't have any idea what it takes to sell on eBay. Okay. Go through the process with that item. Zero in on that one thing, do what it takes because you will either then have the experience to be able to let go of more stuff and be like, okay, now there's no longer the unknown. I do know how to do this. I can start selling things on eBay or, and this is what usually happens. You spend the. 15 to 20 hours to get rid of this one single item that your mom told you was going to be super valuable someday. And then you end up selling it for 40. And then you end up ultimately losing money because you Never crossed your mind, how hard it was going to be to ship and you go through that process and you realize that was a ton of work. It didn't work out the way I wanted to. Now, every other item in your home that you've been tripping over because you thought it had value looks different to you, right? So that, that is, that's the easiest thing I say is, which is not easy. But if you want an answer, if you can't let it go because you're sure it's valuable, go through the process on one item and learn. Okay. Like that permission to learn is so incredibly valuable to say, I don't know how to do this thing. I'm going to give myself permission to learn. I'm going to make mistakes. Maybe you lose money on the shipping and all that kind of stuff, but then now you know better and you're inspired because you can get rid of the other stuff, or you just decide, I'm willing to let this stuff go because I don't want to go through all that next time. The other thing to remember, there's so many things, but because this is our issue, right? This is for the creative brain. Thing to remember is that when you're, when your whole house is a disaster, or even just a closet or a cabinet or a pile, and that there are things in there that could be the beginning of a business could be could make you really good money. Your grandmother always told you was valuable, whatever. And that those things are in there. Okay well, if I'm going to declutter. I'm probably going to need to get rid of those things, and I can't get rid of those things. And so you just don't declutter when in reality, my five step process, we start with the trash and some people are like, what do you mean by trash? And I'm like trash, actual trash, like just giving yourself permission to say, or taking my permission, whatever helps you to. Say, okay, I am literally just going to look for trash. I'm not going to worry about those things yet that are weighing on me that are going to be huge decisions that it's going to feel like they're being pried out of my hands. If I was to get rid of it, I'm not going to worry about that, but I am going to go ahead and see if there's any trash and I'm going to start throwing away trash. Is there anything that's easy? Is there stuff I already know what to do with? Okay, let me do that. Are there any obvious donations and getting that stuff out? Just clarifies. And takes away that overwhelm and the momentum that I build gives me the experience to then be ready to let these other things go or do the thing. Cause it increases my bandwidth to be able to tackle this thing that I've never tackled before.

Megs: 19:30

Oh, yes.

Dana: 19:32

Now because of this experience I've had getting rid of things I didn't care about, I'm like, I actually think I could let this item go. I see the value in open space, I see the value in being able to, let my kids have friends come over at a moment's notice and not feel panic in my heart but it takes time. So what's the first step? The first step is to get rid of the stuff you don't care about and you don't value cause there probably is some, but when you're looking at it as a mass of stuff and there's important, difficult stuff in there, it's hard. So

Megs: 20:02

Yes. And I just want to highlight something that you said, like you have a step by step process, right? And so I think some people look at this and say, why I'm either good at it or I'm not good at it. And for our entire lives, we've been told that we're not good at it. And we see the evidence everywhere. But the truth is, and just like you highlighted earlier, it's okay to try something and not be good at it right away. It's okay to try something like selling something on eBay or Facebook marketplace and not be good at it. It's then, do you want to do it again? And so when it comes to decluttering, it's about starting, and it's about doing it, and then building upon it. Prove to yourself that you can do it with the easy stuff, and then what's so incredible is you get to evolve from there. It's not You have this level of energy now that like sustains, no, you get to build on it like you would build on any kind of thing that you're trying to learn, like going to school or Learning a new language. This is like the language of decluttering. And you start by learning, hi, hello, how are you, my name is. Right? And then you eventually learn how to ask where the library is. And that's how you evolve in your decluttering. And you don't start with the hard stuff. You don't start with, wedding photos of a divorced, someone. In your basement. You don't start with childhood photos that you don't know what to do with. You start with the stuff that's easy so that you can prove to yourself how good it feels. And then, I don't know if you've felt this way too, but I've noticed that I value more the things that I now bring into my home, and the quality of them. Because it used to be so easy to buy things on Amazon that were like replacement items. I got this water fountain for my dog and cat to drink out of. And I was like, oh this is great, it's 40 bucks, right? Guess what? Less than 90 days later it was rusting on the top of it. And I was so annoyed. And then it's hard to replace it. And now because it's like the one thing I value, I'm going to put a little bit more effort into replacing it, but it's things like that. It's these disposable things that we're able to bring in our home so easily, but we don't regularly have a way to get things out. So I don't, do you find that you buy things with more clarity and understanding of what you want because you've decluttered.

Dana: 22:32

So for me, it was less the Of course, I'm, I started this 15 years ago. So when you're like, I don't think I had Amazon prime at that point. You know what I mean? A thing that now it feels like it's a basic human expense, which it's not, but for me it was garage sales. Thrift stores, great deals. Like it was all about the great deal. And it was this especially because those are one of a kind items, right? Like you run across something and you're like, this thing is super cool. Could totally be useful someday. I've got that creative brain. And it's$2 here. If I ever actually did need it in the moment, It might be hard to find and I definitely wouldn't find it for$2. And so I might as well bring it in, and so I bring those things into my house and I would have nowhere to put them. So I just want to be clear I don't use emotions and I don't use what ifs. Because I can't like the whole process that I came up with is based in reality, not in theory, which I do think a lot of times when people talk about organizing, they're like, Oh, this is what should work. And that's how my brain worked because I always wanted to think it through before I did it. But then, because I was at such a desperate point, I just started doing it and by doing it, I was like, Oh, this is what works. So everything is non emotional and everything is fact based. Okay. So my. My most critical question that works for every last item, even if it's like an actual piece of trash, but I can't identify it as trash, is if I needed this item, where would I look for it first? And so that doesn't have any emotions in it. Like it is literally just a question of where would I look for it first. By doing that, I was able to. Establish homes for things where that was always my big problem. I was like, I don't have a place for everything. I don't know where to put things. I get organized and then I can't find anything, right? That's everybody jokes about that. That's a real frustration. And so by putting things in the place where I would look for it first and actually taking it there right now, facing the reality of that space, is there any room for it? Like actually putting things in their homes, then it changes everything about when I'm bringing something new into my home. Because I'm like I have to have a place for it, if I'm going to have a place for it, that means that if this thing comes into my home and there isn't a place for it, something else is going to have to leave. Is it actually valuable enough to me that I'm willing to give up something else in order to bring it in or to give up my free floor space that's clear. And I don't trip on, like all of that builds over time. I always say the best way to stop shopping is to declutter because as you declutter, you also run across the things that you're like, why did I buy that? And you feel that frustration and, sometimes it feels like self loathing, not that we need to do self loathing, but you have those moments where you're just like, Dana. Oh my word, what were you thinking? And while that is difficult, it is valuable because that changes how I view something else that is, it's I literally just decluttered something else that was very similar to this. And so I see things as the future clutter that they're going to be. Which, in some ways felt like giving up on my identity as the person who would get all the great bargains and stuff. But at the same time, I got to where I could function so much better in my home. And I liked my home better that it freed me up to actually do the things that fit that identity. You know what I mean? Like I had the bandwidth, I had the actual physical space to do the things and then doing those things helped me clarify what things I really enjoyed versus just gathering for the future of me that I might be someday.

Megs: 26:20

Thank you so much for joining me and Dana K white on today's episode of organizing an ADHD brain. I hope you're feeling inspired to take one small step toward decluttering or organizing. Remember progress, not perfection is what we're aiming for. Before we wrap up, I want to remind you about a couple exciting opportunities to work with me. My ADHD friendly membership launches, January 15th. And it's the perfect way to get ongoing support and connect with women who truly understand the ADHD experience. And if you're looking for more personalized guidance, my 90 day coaching program is designed to give you the structure strategies and accountability you need. To get organized and stay that way. I've just revamped the program page on my website to include everything you need to know. Plus a link to my calendar where you can book a call with me. You'll find the details in the show notes. I'll be posting the second half of this interview on Wednesday. And there are some snippets that I'll be posting in the membership community alone. That's something else that you can look forward to when you join the membership is additional content just for the membership community. And don't forget. Dana's amazing resources are also linked below, so you can dive even deeper into her practical, no nonsense approach to organizing. If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a review and share it with someone who might need a little organizing inspiration until next time. Remember. Every day is a new opportunity to try again.