Breaking Free from Clutter Chaos: A Chat with Dana K. White (Part 2)

The second half of an insightful discussion with Dana K. White about effective strategies to organize an ADHD brain by focusing on decluttering. Dana shares her personal experiences and practical tips on distinguishing between cleaning and decluttering, managing daily tasks, and understanding the role of minimalism. Listeners are guided through strategies such as the 'five-minute pickup' and the significant impact of small, consistent actions in transforming their living spaces. They also discuss how to start with the most visible areas of the home, making easy progress to maintain motivation. The episode is filled with encouraging advice for anyone feeling overwhelmed by clutter, emphasizing that finding what works for you is essential, and that anyone can create a functional, organized home with manageable, step-by-step methods.

00:16 The Concept of Future Clutter

01:06 Decluttering and Its Emotional Impact

03:07 Daily Cleaning Habits

03:52 Understanding Layers of a Clean House

06:45 Minimalism and Personal Organization

17:19 Practical Steps for Decluttering

20:17 Conclusion and Resources

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Transcript

Yeti Stereo Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera: 0:42

Hey, beautiful people. Welcome back to another episode of organizing an ADHD brain. We're going to jump right back in to this episode. The second half of the interview with Dana K white, I hope you enjoyed the first half. Let's jump back in to right where we left off on Monday.

Dana: 0:59

I see things as the future clutter that they're going to be. Which, in some ways felt like giving up on my identity as the person who would get all the great bargains and stuff. But at the same time, I got to where I could function so much better in my home. And I liked my home better that it freed me up to actually do the things that fit that identity. You know what I mean? Like I had the bandwidth, I had the actual physical space to do the things and then doing those things helped me clarify what things I really enjoyed versus just gathering for the future of me that I might be someday.

Megs: 1:34

I love it because someone described, oh, I think it was another client. Again, she was like I squirrel around. I like, I squirrel and I take all these nuts and I stick it in my little nut, container for all the things that I want to do in life. But truly by decluttering, while it can be difficult to let go. It's also so freeing in that if it's not in front of us, we typically don't remember, like as soon as we let it go and we make that decision to let it go. It's so freeing. I had another one of my clients. I was at her house the other day and she put all of her donations in a black plastic bag. And she's it's because you told me to read that book. And so it's funny, cause I forgot the donations. Then I ran back and knocked on her door. I was like, give me that give that black bag. Let's put it in here and let's get it out of here. But it's once, once you make that decision and you make peace with it and it's out of your home. Gosh, it's so freeing. There's so much that we can allow into our space and I have found that I've been so much more creative or even been able to just relax in my home more because things have a home and because I don't feel like I have to spend every waking moment cleaning. And by cleaning just like moving my clutter around so that it makes sense for me, which I found was what I was doing for so much of my life. It's fascinating.

Dana: 2:59

and that, that key right there is, that was a big part of what frustrated me and confused me was that other people would say they were cleaning and it would take them two hours and I would say I was cleaning and it would Be like a month long project, and other people would say, Oh, I never clean. And I looked around their house and I was like, your house is perfect. What are you talking about? It not me make me angry at them, but just angry at my situation where I was like what, that was part of that confusion that made me feel like, is there something wrong with me that I don't understand what they're talking about. Why is she saying she never cleans in her house is always great. Why is cleaning not this huge daunting thing for other people that it is for me. And it's because, I call it the layers of a clean house. There are layers. I did not know that. Like the first layer is the daily stuff that just has to be done. And if it doesn't get done daily, then it. turns into this big thing, like a five minute pickup of just randomly picking up the little things that get out of place during the day, and I always thought, okay, they must just never have anything out of place. That's not the truth. The truth was they just consistently would pick stuff up and put it away. Not automatically. Doing it every day. So for me, that's a five minute pickup. Like it is never going to be my reality that I don't just randomly set things down without realizing that I set it down. Instead, I'm like, I'm going to take five minutes either every day or every time I start to feel a little bewildered by my house. I'm going to set the timer for five minutes. I'm going to pick stuff up and put it away. And that solves that for me. By doing the dishes every day, it's like, Oh, them having the dishes done every day is the reason they don't have to spend five hours first. And that's the reason cleaning is easier for them. They can just get to the cleaning. So those daily things, if I put them off, then I'm counting that as cleaning, but it's not actually cleaning. It's just catching up on the stuff that needed to be done every day. And then the clutter, like if there's clutter everywhere, I couldn't clean. And so when I was saying that I needed to clean my house, I was catching up on daily things. I was stuff, shifting all my stuff into a different room so that I could actually get to the surfaces. But when I got, when I kept up on daily stuff and when I got clutter out, I was like, Oh, so when I need to clean, all I have to do is actually just clean. And I'm like, Oh, why it's not that big of a deal. It's because I don't have to do all these other things to get to the point where I can do the cleaning.

Megs: 5:25

Oh my gosh. Stuff shifting. Oh, does that resonate with me? And I remember asking my sister in law how long does it take for you to clean before people come over? Like before we come over? And she goes, Oh, like 15 minutes. And I'm like, what does that look like? It was mind boggling to me. That was a life that people lived and so I think to those of you who are listening and this sounds like this eureka moment in oh my gosh, I want to be there. I just want you to know that like the curiosity in you by just asking the questions is enough because you will start to see these little things that you can do that are going to help point you in the right direction. And oh my gosh, it's it wasn't until a couple months ago that I finally said to myself, oh my gosh. I feel like I'm organized, like I, I've been identifying as a professional organizer, been talking about decluttering, but I looked around and I have two girls, five and seven, and they love to make a mess, right? And I'm going to be honest. I'm like, also a pretty messy person. That whole rule of don't put it down, put it away. I don't know. It just doesn't work for me. I'm already, I'm always going, but now when I'm sitting down and I look at everything around me, what makes me feel really good is that I can look at the hairbrush and I'm like, oh, that goes in that drawer right there. That's where we always go to find it. Those other hair bows there, that goes in that hair bow drawer over there. Those cups, I know we're gonna get the dishes done tonight, right? It's that reassurance that you know how to do it, and it can be done in a five minute segment because our home is this inventory system of all of this stuff. It's like a small business or a big business depending on how much stuff you have. But, You have all this inventory to take care of. The less inventory you have, the less complicated it becomes in so many different aspects of our lives.

Dana: 7:24

Exactly. And, you were talking about organizing and decluttering. That was probably my biggest Eureka moment was realizing they are not the same thing because I just lumped them together. And when I would look at my messy house, I would think I've got to get organized because that's the natural thing that we think and we say, getting organized when I had so much more stuff than my house could possibly fit that I could possibly handle meant that I was just trying to do this elaborate system that I was never going to be able to maintain. I never got anywhere as long as I was trying to get organized. But when I said, you know what, I thought I was giving up by saying, I am so far gone. I can't even get organized. I'm just going to declutter and decluttering changed everything. Okay. I was like, oh, okay. You know how to not have stuff everywhere is to not have the stuff. That is the actual answer is just getting stuff out of my house to the point where I can actually. Maintain it and handle it and things have homes.

Megs: 8:30

Yeah. Oh my gosh, so much. And when it comes to minimalism too, you get to decide what minimalism is to you. And I feel like if at this point you wanna call yourself a minimalist, you can, even if you still have like way more stuff than what a traditional minimalist would have. It's just that you have enough to live with. That fits in your home comfortably without it being out of control.

Dana: 8:53

And I think too, I don't want to speak as a. Non ADHD expert. So maybe you could, speak on this,

Megs: 9:01

no, go for

Dana: 9:02

I find as I worked on my house and as I found that the less stuff I had, the easier I could handle my home, it, and also at the time. Because this has been 15 years, minimalism was starting to become a thing that people were talking about, so it was a new thing and I would hear about it and I would think, Oh, maybe that's what I should do, maybe that's what I should do. And then I would look at my stuff and go, okay, what would a good minimalist do? And it would. Freeze me like I couldn't do it because I, would spin out in the same way as when I would hold up something and say, could I ever use this? My brain will spin out. I can come up with a reason to use it. With minimalism, I would be like technically I guess maybe I could, but I just couldn't, it would freeze me. And so it was too far extreme to aim toward being a minimalist, but And that's why I was telling people, I'm like, if it helps you to aim for minimalism, then absolutely do that. But if it stops you from making progress, because the idea is too overwhelming, like it was for me, then I literally will just go with the, if I needed this item, where would I look for it first? And I take it there now. And is there room for it? Okay. Then I can keep it, and where someone else might tell me, there's no reason for you to have, your first grade, Shoes that you wore on the first day of school. If we're talking about shoulds and all that of course you don't need those, a lot of us. Who feel a lot of attachment to that. So when I say if I would go looking for them and I have a place where I would look for them first, and there's room in that place, I can keep them and just knowing that I can keep them if there's room helps me go, okay. Then I can do this. I can keep anything, but I can't keep everything and my house stand or control. And just knowing that nobody. Cause this is my rebellious spirit. I'm like, if you're going to tell me what I shouldn't keep, then yeah, we're not, we're done here. I'm just

Megs: 11:08

No. Yes.

Dana: 11:10

and that was the thing is people like, you'll never use this. One of the examples I have is my husband loves to make jerky. And so he has this. jerky gun that you put ground beef into. And it like, I don't know, I don't eat it personally, but is his hobby. Like he loves to the different flavors and everything. And it squirts it out like a cookie spritzer gun or whatever thing, think Pampered Chef used to sell one. I think I had one.

Megs: 11:35

Oh, yeah.

Dana: 11:36

but, you put it in there and it like makes these thin strips of this, jerky and I saw somebody one time say something like, Oh, my word. Did you know there's such thing as a jerky gun? Nobody needs a jerky gun. And I'm like, if you use it. Then you can have one or, there's no like arbitrary lists of things that nobody needs this over the age of 50 or whatever. I'm like that kind of stuff drives me bonkers because I have the personality that's you don't know me. You may never use that. I will actually use that, and I was a theater arts teacher. So that was a big part of my problem was that I usually could find a reason and a way to use the most random stuff that no one in the world. Just asking myself, is it useful? Will I ever use it? The answer was always going to be yes. Do you want it? Of course I want it. That's why I brought it in my house. And so I couldn't ask myself those questions. Instead. I go with the facts of if I needed it, where would I look for it? Okay. Is there room for it there? Am I willing to get rid of something else in order to keep it? Those are all very fact based and that was what helped me a lot instead of these spin out questions, which is the same thing that can happen on the minimalism side of things.

Megs: 12:48

It was funny. I was joking around with another professional organizer who is an ADHD specialist, and we were joking about the, if there's poop on it, would you throw it away or keep it thing? And I was like I just wash it off and then I figure out what to do with it. ADHD so autism, ADHD,

Dana: 13:06

okay. I didn't know

Megs: 13:08

It's really common to have both the more that studies are showing, but yeah, it was just fascinating because especially with autism there's this logicalness about it and looking at things from a logical perspective and I'm like, yeah, if there's poop on it I've had kids, there's been poop on everything that I've owned at this point.

Dana: 13:24

And that can totally work it all helps to inform it. But having an actual process is what I needed. Like I needed the step by steps and so I came up with the step by steps and it turns out other people, can use them too, but I needed steps to go back to, cause I was always going to spin out and I was always going to get stuck. And I still use the steps. Because I still look at a space and go, Oh my goodness. And I'm like, wait, Dana, you wrote book. come on,

Megs: 13:53

Yeah.

Dana: 13:54

start trash and I'll start with the trash. I'm like, Oh yeah. Okay. And then I go with the steps and it,

Megs: 13:59

Yes.

Dana: 13:59

makes me able to do it.

Megs: 14:02

And I love that too, because sometimes it's hard to know where to start. And so if you can remind yourself of that, it's okay that it's not on the tip of your brain every single time, because you have a method that you can go back to. And the question that you mentioned is, if I were to look for this item, where would I go to look for it first? is huge because it's a different part of the brain that we're using than where would I just go stick this, right? If I'm just putting it away, we're hiding things. We're sticking things in places so that we can just get it out of our viewpoint and look around and feel things might feel a little bit cleaner. But the thing is that when we're looking for something, we're going to go to some place first, and that's where we start to designate those homes for things. I'm talking a lot about getting ready for the holidays and decluttering before the holidays, not only with your stuff, but The amount of events that we do and the amount of stuff that we actually want to involve ourselves in or even purchase for our home to not add to the clutter that we already have in here. How do we make those purposeful decisions?

Dana: 15:05

That question also takes you so far in self acceptance as well, because we are not asking where should this go, because when the question, if you think the question, people get this mixed up, but, and this is, they're like, it's not working. I'm like what are you actually asking yourself? If you're asking yourself, where should this go? Then it's I've never been organized before. So I've probably been wrong on everything. I should put it in the same place where my mom put hers or my grandma put hers or whatever. But then that just continues that issue of, I can never find anything. My house is always a disaster. I know I bought stamps, but I don't know where they are. All this kind of stuff that. Adds to that frustration with yourself. But when I say for me, it was a conscious decision. I went, you know what, it doesn't matter where it should go. It doesn't matter where the experts say it should go. It doesn't matter where my mom or my grandma kept hers. It is literally an issue of where we in our house would look for it first. And I just said, that's where I'm going to put it. And then putting it there meant that when we looked for things, we found it, which meant. The more that happened, we were the organized family and I was like, Oh, okay, It's better to be me than to fight being me. Putting things where I think it should go, but I would never look for it there first, is fighting against myself. And I'm always gonna lose, right? Like I'm always gonna lose when I'm fighting myself. But when am accepting how my brain works and say, okay, I would look for our fingernail clippers in the junk drawer in the kitchen. Whether or not somebody on the internet might go, Oh, you should never put it there. I'm like, who cares what they don't live in my house. And if I actually can find my fingernail clippers, every time I go looking for them, that is huge for the person who I used to be who had to tear my house apart to look for any little random thing.

Megs: 17:06

And then the barrier of getting over that too I would not cut my fingernails if I didn't know where they were, right? It's like the idea of going to look for them, because I know that it's going to be a process to look for something, that right there is a barrier to getting things done. And it's okay that it doesn't make sense for anyone else, as long as it makes sense for you and your family, because guess what? We all work and operate different. It doesn't matter if you have ADHD, it doesn't matter if you're neurotypical, whatever you want to say, it matters that it works for you and that your home complements you and your family as humans.

Dana: 17:44

That's what we've talked about the very beginning, like what was my goal? I didn't know it. I didn't know to put it in these words, but when I reached it and I realized, oh, this was it. This is what I wanted. It was function. Did my home function for me?

Megs: 18:00

I love that. What kind of advice would you give to those who are just starting out? They feel so overwhelmed in their clutter. It feels like there's no hope.

Dana: 18:10

Yes. Go to the most visible space in your home. Do it wherever you want, but if you're asking for my advice, I would to a visible space in your home. Meaning this is what people would see when they come in the front door. If somebody rang the doorbell and you opened the door, what would they see? Go to that space with a black trash bag and just look for trash. But before you do, Take a picture with your phone, set a timer for five minutes, start throwing away trash. If you throw away all the trash that's in that space, we'll then move to the next most visible space and, keep moving and just do it for five minutes at the end of five minutes, take another picture and see the difference. Okay. Now, if your spaces are already under control, go to the most visible messy space that you have. But I also am talking to the person who won't open their front door because it's a disaster. That's who I was. That's who I'm talking to. So go to that space and see the impact that you can make with five minutes of decision free time. Progress because trash is not a decision. If you find yourself trying to decide if something is trash, it's not trash. I am literally talking about the stuff that you don't have to make a decision about, right? And the power of that. And then there, I have, four more steps. I'm sure we'll put the link to the printable here, but, in decluttering the speed of life. I talk about it everywhere, but keep going through those steps. Take those progress pictures because your goal is better. You're going to go so much farther if you make your goal better than making your goal done. With the five step process, we never pull everything out. We just go item by item, but yeah, go to the most visible space, start throwing away trash. You're going to see the progress that you made every time you walk by that space. And even though you may not have registered the stuff that was there before, once that stuff is gone, it's going to be so much more noticeable. Wow, that looks better. Oh, wow. That looks better. That will inspire you to keep going as opposed to doing the same thing in a space nobody ever sees. And then you feel defeated because you're like I spent all that time working and my house doesn't look any better,

Megs: 20:35

oh, my gosh. Absolutely. So those of you listening, right? Set timers. We talk about that. Do things in small increments, right? I love the category of trash. And there's no decisions in that right where we have to make so many other decisions on all this other stuff. Allow it to be easy at first so that you can continue to come back to it And it's not giving you the sense of overwhelm to actually do the thing. Oh, it's beautiful.

Dana: 20:59

Thank you. Thank you so much Thanks for being here. Thanks for writing your book I'm gonna continue to talk about you and now I'm gonna brag to everyone like oh, you know the author I know her and she was on the podcast thank you.

Megs: 21:13

Thanks for everything that you do and for inspiring others To, have freedom in their life again from all the stuff. Where can my listeners find you?

Dana: 21:21

I am Dana K. White. If you Google Dana K. White, you'll find me. If you Google Dana White, you'll find the guy who started the UFC. That is not me at all. That's not

megs--she-her-_1_11-07-2024_110057: 21:32

Okay.

Dana: 21:33

So you'll either be very disappointed or very relieved to find me, right? So But put the K in there and I'm Dana K. White on YouTube and A Slob Comes Clean is the blog that I started 15 years ago. And that is still alive. You can go back and read the whole entire, like from the beginning as I was figuring it out and figure out what didn't work, all of that at aslobkemsclean. com.

Megs: 21:57

brilliant. Thank you so much. I was reading your blog the other day, so I highly recommend it. Cause I'm like delicious Yeah.

Dana: 22:02

Thank you.

Yeti Stereo Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-1: 22:03

Wasn't that episode. Incredible. I love Dana. I love her book. She has some incredible resources out there. I'm so pumped that she was able to share so many incredible insights. On not only simplifying our life and managing our homes, but without the overwhelm. For those of you listening. Don't forget to check out the show notes for all of Dana's amazing resources, including links to her books and website. And while you're there, make sure you mark your calendar because my membership is launching on January 15th. If you're ready to join a supportive community of women with ADHD who are learning to get organized in a way that works for their brains. This is your chance. Plus, if you're looking for more personalized guidance. My 90 day coaching program is open for enrollment now. I have limited spots available. So if you've been waiting for a sign to invest in yourself and finally tackle those organizing challenges. This is it. I have a background in project management. And part of my goal is to help you find manageable ways to work with your brain. To tackle your space have less and therefore have less overwhelm in the new year. It's 2025. Let's make some changes. Also, I did it too. I used to have a clutter filled home, and now I can tell you that I am not only organized, but I also have ADHD and you can have those two things too. Thank you for spending time with me today. Until next time, remember, you're not alone, you're not broken and you can absolutely create the life and space you want starting right where you are. Talk soon.