Organizing an ADHD Brain
This Podcast is about what it's like to have ADHD and different techniques people can apply to their life to find their own version of what organized means. Megs is a professional organizer coach with ADHD and shares how organizing your brain, while understanding how it works, provides the key to living your best life.
Organizing an ADHD Brain
Parenting Neurodiverse Kids: Organizing Tips and Nervous System Insights with Mindful as a Mother
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In this episode, the host talks to Paige and Lindsay from 'Mindful as a Mother.' They discuss organizing strategies for ADHD minds, parenting neurodivergent children, and understanding the nervous system. The conversation highlights their personal experiences and expertise in making resources accessible for ADHD and autistic parents. Paige and Lindsay share practical tips for creating structured environments and the importance of self-regulation. They also emphasize the significance of communication and letting go of perfectionism in parenting. The episode ends with information on their small group courses designed to support parents in similar journeys.
03:24 Meet Paige and Lindsay
05:14 Parenting Challenges and Strategies
12:07 Low Demand Parenting and Nervous System Responses
17:28 Communication and Organizing with ADHD
24:53 Navigating Parenting with Neurodivergent Children
27:44 Navigating Parenting with Openness and Accountability
28:39 Generational Differences in Parenting
29:18 Balancing Business, ADHD, and Parenting
30:34 Life Hacks for Staying Organized
34:56 Empowering Partners in Parenting
38:44 Encouraging Kids to Clean Their Rooms
45:53 Promoting Autonomy and Life Skills
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Hey, beautiful people. Welcome back to another episode of organizing an ADHD brain. I'm so excited to introduce you to Paige and Lindsay. Today, I originally met them on Tik TOK. I'll dive into that story in the interview, but we are diving into all things, not only organizing, but also parenting and understanding your own nervous system. And how it can make such a world of a difference for you and your kids. I can speak from my own personal experience. I've taken. Paige and Lindsay's course, and it was incredible and I'm a huge promoter of it. So if you want to reach out and ask me more questions. Absolutely. But I'll put all of their links and information below. It's funny because in the show we talk about cleaning your room and today. I was insistent that my girls cleaned their room, but I didn't give them a timeframe. I was just like, Hey, let's get it done today. Today's the day we were body doubling by doing other things around the house. And it's hilarious because I had forgotten who I heard it from. And it was literally this interview that Paige and her family clean on Sundays together as a form of body doubling I talked last week a little bit about. Communicating with my husband. And how I've learned that. I do have a lot of control over a lot of the things that happened in our house. And. I don't think I fully knew that like now, obviously now that I know that it's very apparent, like there's. Yes. I, yes. But also. I don't think I realize how much control I feel like I have over my kids' rooms. I've asked them what they wanted. But for the most part, I ask other kids more often what they want than I do with my own kids. So there was some realization in that not only today, but listening to this episode. So I just want you to know as I'm doing this podcast, I have I figured out the organizing stuff. Right. My coach. That's what I do. That's what I dive into. I want to learn so much more. And I still have ADHD and I'm still trying to be the best parent that I can. I'm still learning how to communicate, not only with my kids, but with my husband in a way that works for us. And that's a big learning curve. And so last week's episode and this week's episode. These are, these are pretty vulnerable for me because, it's been a, it's a learning curve for me too. And so as I'm learning now, as I'm growing, I want to be learning and growing with you. We're going to keep talking about organizing. That's what I do. but this is a crucial aspect of it. I know two podcasts in a row on communication, but it's huge. There's so much we can learn. By learning how to talk about our feelings. I know sometimes I can explain something in my head perfectly, but when I try to put it into words, it either comes out wrong or it's not conveyed in the way that I meant it to be conveyed. And so. Continuing to work through that, especially in a family setting and a family dynamic is really crucial for the success of everyone. If you enjoy this episode, don't forget to subscribe, share it with a friend and leave a review. It helps the podcast reach so many more listeners like you. Let's get into it.
Megs:I'm so excited to introduce you to Paige and Lindsay today. I just recently got done taking their course. they are known as mindful as a mother, they're best friends, and they're both therapists, Paige, you want to go first and tell us a little bit about who you are, a little bit about your background
Paige:Yeah, so my name is Paige Bruce, and I'm a one half of Mindful as a Mother. so we highly value Making resources affordable for ADHD and autistic parents, whether you are yourself or you have children that are. And so we have created a plethora of online resources and ongoing small groups to help teach parents how to embrace themselves and their kids exactly as they show up in the world. We all know traditional parenting just doesn't hit. I live in Idaho, which is about three and a half hours away from Lindsay. We met online In 2020 on Instagram and became besties. We had two separate companies doing the exact same thing. So we just joined forces. I have three children, 10, seven, and just barely six. So they're not as close as they seem. And I'm expecting my fourth. I have a private practice in Idaho that specializes in working with ADHD and autistic children and then also anxiety because a lot of us, grown women who are late diagnosed are often misdiagnosed or co diagnosed with anxiety disorders. Like you got to know a lot about all of it to figure out what's going on. I have ADHD and then I have an ADHD husband. So all of our kids are spicy in some form. I have one that's formally diagnosed with ADHD only. And then I just recently had her evaluated for dyslexia as we're navigating some needed additional supports. And then I have another one that's formally diagnosed with ADHD and autism with a PDA profile.
Megs:When did you find out that you had ADHD?
Paige:I really, gosh, I can't say that there's one specific time, but it just made sense. my oldest has always been spicy from the very beginning. There's like countless stories on our podcast about how she would break through locks, Climb billions of things like she could climb before she could walk and it would stress the parents at the park out because she'd be doing like the monkey bars and I'm just vibing and they're like, oh my god. and I just, the way she understands the world made so much sense to me that once I. I got my degree and I started working with children and I specialize in this. I was like, Oh, that's why it makes sense for her, but also that's why I understand how she perceives the world so much is because I also have it. And then my husband just also very much so has it. That's probably why we were drawn to each other.
Megs:I feel that my husband has ADHD too. And sometimes he listens to my podcast. I'm like, what did you take away from it? And he's like, I don't know. It was good though.
Paige:Yep.
Megs:All right. Lindsay, what about you?
Lindsay:My name is Lindsay. I'm the second half of mindful as a mother. I am in Utah and I have a small private practice where I see mostly kids who are neurodivergent, but I also see some adults and I have three kids. My son is nine and he is AuDHD. So ADHD and autism. I have twins who are six. six and they have not been formally diagnosed, but I'm sure there is one in their future for ADHD. And then I have been formally diagnosed with ADHD and I self identify as having autism. I'm still trying to decide if I want to pursue the testing or not, but if it's like Paige said, and since I've started, Acknowledging that about myself. It's actually made my life so much easier because I've been able to unburden in a lot of ways. My husband has ADHD as well. So we're just one big neuro spicy family.
Megs:I love that you're normalizing it too. I'm fascinated with what you've been doing, And I found you all on Tik TOK and I think, one of you had commented on one of my videos about, ADHD organizing and you were like, I'm so excited to dive in and I'm like, Oh my gosh. And then I dived into your videos and I'm like, this is all making so much sense. And it really started clicking in a whole new way. So how long have you been identifying the both of you as mindful as a mother, one half and the other?
Lindsay:so we officially got an LLC and at the beginning of 2023, but before then we were like teaching and doing stuff together and had Yeah. We called it the thing.
Paige:were dating
Megs:dabbling.
Paige:since 2021.
Lindsay:sure that it's a good, fit to start a business.
Megs:so that you could spend the rest of your lives together helping other mamas and
Paige:We are. We're business married. That's what we talk about.
Megs:I like that. it's a good
Lindsay:We even celebrate our anniversary.
Megs:You do! What do you do to celebrate?
Lindsay:we're usually on podcast weekend. It's what we call it when we go away to record a bunch of podcasts. So normally we just go to dinner or eat snacks or I don't know what we do
Paige:Hang out, watch trash TV.
Lindsay:these resources affordable to and accessible to all parents who are neurodivergent and or have neurodivergent kids. Because what I found when my son was going through the diagnosis process, we knew At about three and a half, maybe sooner that autism was very likely. And when I would look for resources and I looked into my training as a therapist it was all mostly like traditional parenting stuff and behavioral techniques that didn't always work. And so I knew I was looking for something different. And then once I found it, I was like, I need everybody to be able to find this when they need it.
Paige:and mine is very similar. We have different, almost what we call origin stories that kind of lead to the same mission that help complement each other because a big portion of mine is I naturally am very attuned to children in general, especially neurodivergent children, because that's how I operate in the world myself. And so there's this gap in. in. the communication between parent and child when you are neurodivergent and or your children. And it led me to find a lot of parents who just felt like they weren't good parents and they didn't find joy in parenthood. And for me, that's like my main mission when I started my own side company was really helping parents know that what they're experiencing isn't. Just them and that traditional parenting really doesn't hit when you are neurodivergent or you have neurodivergent kids So and then I want them to have joy in parenthood while also watching these children thrive
Megs:That's incredible. I, I was hesitant to sign up for your small group at first because I was like, do I have time to do this? Is this, what I need? I knew it was something that I wanted to do, but I think it's so incredibly affordable. And when I was sitting in your small group for the first time in the first week and listening to other mothers talk about their stories, talk about their experiences with motherhood, including yourselves, and that you show up so vulnerable and you have a lot of answers because you've been through a lot of this stuff and you've done a lot of the work, but I remember sitting there and I had tears in my eyes because I finally felt like I wasn't alone in a lot of the different things that I do, including, but not limited to the emotional outbursts that can happen as a mom. That is something that I saw my mom go through. And then I vowed myself like, that's not something I'm going to do as a mom. And then lo and behold, This is something that we experience as moms because it's a nervous system response. It's not necessarily you just want to get pissed off at them. and so I have looked at my own parenting journey So much more differently now after taking your course than I ever did before. And so first, I just want to thank you thank you for putting yourselves out there in a way that is vulnerable, that is helping people, just change some of the ways that we look at things. So, as you were working with your own kids and trying different things that weren't necessarily like the, the things that they tell you to do in school, when did you start to learn that there were different things out there that you could try that would work? and you can dive into the low demand parenting. I've loved listening to your podcast on that. I thought that was fascinating. I'd love to hear where that journey began and where you are now based on some of the things that you've just tried.
Lindsay:for me, my son was really young and I worked with kids, at that time and I was trying some of the things I was recommending, like parents do at home. And I was like, this isn't working. What is, what am I doing wrong? And so I started Googling cause that's what people do. When they can't figure stuff out. And I found a little help, but not really. And then I learned about polyvagal theory, which is the nervous system. And so then I was able to like really dive into how the nervous system works and how it's more sensitive for neurodivergent. people and how we can parent from that perspective. And it all evolved. So it's I'm still always learning and growing. we're constantly both Paige and I reading and learning new things we're never done. But as things have progressed. And with social media, that's been helpful. I've been able to just continue to adapt and learn.
Megs:Do you remember a specific time where you tried something that was totally not what the, the typical things tell you to do and you're like, holy crap, it could work if we try new and different things.
Lindsay:Yeah. So instead of, let's say, I'm trying to think of a good example. Oh, with the low demand parenting, instead of me being on top of my child all the time being like, you need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do this, I tried to take as many demands out as possible with the morning time because he's having a really hard time getting to school. And it actually helped that he had more freedom and flexibility to choose the way he wanted to move through his morning routine. and it was like game changing at the time because he was in preschool and I was literally having to carry him into preschool. Every single day, kicking, screaming, crying. And then I would feel terrible when I left because he was still crying and he would eventually calm down and be totally fine, but it was just so exhausting. And then my nervous system was dysregulated starting the day. And I remember just being like, Oh, like I don't actually need to do any of that like I can just let him like do it in his way and set things up that work for him. And it's so much easier and there's not a battle involved.
Megs:It's fascinating. Paige, what about you? Oh
Paige:Yeah, I would say I started parenting when I was very young. I was 14 when my oldest sister had her first daughter. and she wasn't able to care for her. So she lived in my home and I was raised by my grandparents already. So this kid's great grandparents. My niece's great grandparents. so they didn't really have the flexibility or the energy to care for her. So I did a lot of the day to day parenting, and there's one incident where she Was being defiant. That's my quote unquote for people that can't see me, defiant. and not doing the thing that I asked her to do and I flicked her in the forehead and I started sobbing. and it was like from that moment on that I was like, this just isn't right. This isn't okay. And so I started just reading a lot of literature around parenting, like parenting with love and logic. the whole brain child, like 14, 15 years old, I'm like. sipping hot cocoa at our library cafe. this is my life.
Megs:Yeah.
Paige:but then my oldest was born and it was night and day. Cause I had an in home daycare cause I've always been passionate about the safe care of children and then to provide information to parents. So I had low income families that we would provide. Child care for and then I would provide additional information on their development and how we can support them and there was one kiddo. That is about six months younger than my daughter and I refer to her as a unicorn because it just was like night and day different. if you told this child no. They did not do the thing. Like this kid could sit at a table at 15 months old with markers and crayons, unsupervised, and never draw on the wall. Like I was beside myself in meantime, I'm like finding these big intruder locks and like dead bolting things. And one time my kid broke our living room window and then climbed over a thorny bush and was like running the streets. So I just started adapting the environment where I was like, this isn't working. Clearly it works with this child, which is great. Not working with my child and I'm not sure why yet, but then just adapting the environment and adapting my responses to be more encompassing to what I felt like she needed. And if we were in a place, like I called it creating a yes space, so there were certain things in order for it to be a yes space that I couldn't have in that space. Because she would build ladders to get out of windows and things. So I don't have any of the things that we can stack, right? So now we're in this place where she's free to learn and develop. But it's tailored to her and her specific needs and it just continued from there and I never knew that my parenting was really different and until I did dive more into Counseling because I had children before I got my master's degree
Megs:That's so neat. I, I wanted to invite you on here. I know I talk a lot about organizing and ADHD, but one thing that's really helped me as I'm communicating with my kids when it comes to keeping their room clean or organized or having them help up around the house or do chores or do things to help them be involved in the house, I find that I'm able to communicate with them differently because of the class I took with you, which is one of the things Top things that I have to work with clients on is the communication aspect of organizing and letting go and figuring out how to create systems in your house that work because you can do it, but oftentimes they fail because the lack of communication and honestly, just not understanding how to speak to someone so that they will listen. And so that has helped me tenfold when it comes to your course. I think it's fascinating. one thing that you talk about in the course is. You know our nervous system response and instead of saying hey Here's how you work with your kids on their nervous system response. You say hey, what about yours? How do you handle your own nervous system response? I thought that was incredibly valuable because I think sometimes we show up as adults and we're like, we are what we are Right now we can help our kids But the truth is there's so much that we can learn to help ourselves because there's so much that we don't know. You From the way that we grew up from the way that our parents didn't know how to parent us. And so why is that something that you focus on? I know why, but can you tell us a little bit more about why you focus on, your own triggers and your own responses to different things that your kids are doing before you dive into how to work with your kids?
Lindsay:I learned this one the hard way. So I have a lot in my past, a lot of developmental trauma. So just trauma throughout childhood. And I always knew what kind of parent I wanted to be and how I wanted to parent my kids. And then I learned about their nervous systems and how to help them. And then I realized that I can't help them if I can't do it myself because there's mirror neurons. Their nervous system feeds on my nervous system. And I was having those same moments where you snap and you yell. And that's the last thing I wanted to do as a parent. I'm an intellectualizer. So I think if I know the information, that's enough, right? And so I really had to learn that I can't out think my nervous system. And I had to take the time to focus on myself. And that is the biggest shift I've ever seen in my parenting and in just like the peace in our home. And that's when I realized that, it's important for mothers, parents to know that. Because at the time we were working on I had a course called coping for kids. We were working on like kids with their nervous systems, learning coping skills, all those things.
Paige:really great way to
Lindsay:The number one thing that people would also say is the hardest part of helping their child calm down was calming themselves down. And I was like, okay, so this is the foundational piece that is missing to make all of these other things work. And so that's how I was like, okay, we have to teach about our nervous systems and how to regulate first.
Paige:Yeah, absolutely, and, I think it's the same when Lindsay and I talk, About things within the business, we're 98 percent of the time, on the exact same page and like thought process. And the 2 percent is, Miscommunication because I'm not understanding what's happening. And the science of it is to we happen to work in a field where we work with a lot of kids, right? And parents want their kids to thrive and do well. And so they want to fix these children's behaviors. They want to give them tools to support them. But. A lot of the times, it doesn't matter how much we teach the children to be able to do it if we can't infiltrate the family system. So it's if as a family we aren't able to do these things, we won't be able to reinforce it with your children to help them thrive. So if we can get you to thrive and understand why that's important, even just taking steps towards it, your children will be like ten fold better for it.
Lindsay:Also think Paige, and you might disagree, but it's you have to experience it to be able to teach it in some ways. like the embodiment of having a regulated nervous system.
Paige:Mm hmm.
Lindsay:aren't aware of until they become more in tune with it. And once you know what it feels like, then it's easier to help walk your child through regulating their nervous system.
Megs:Yeah. I've noticed that a ton. I, know when I used to throw temper tantrums as a kid, Now my kids are throwing temper tantrums And, my initial reaction is to react is to say stop doing that, like that's not what's acceptable. and I knew that's not the way I wanted to react, but I didn't know what else to do. it's so interesting because, you mentioned how you knew how you wanted to parent, but then if we were parented a different way, there's only one way we really know, no matter how much we want to do something, unless we start to learn and to practice in a different way, we're just going to show up with like our best. And so there wasn't like, there was so many things that I wanted to do and wanted to show up as a parent, but I didn't know how to do it. And so there was a lot of shame in that. Cause I'd walk away from yelling and What the hell? this isn't what I. want to do this isn't what I'm trying to do. and I don't want to have these memories with my kids, but, my daughter this morning, it was last night she pulled the cat's tail and I saw her do this and I was like, Oh, what are you doing? And she freaked out. And it was like an immediate response. Cause she knew she had done something wrong. And. It was like, I felt myself tightening up. Like I felt my chest getting tighter. I felt like I could react in this situation. but I actually just kept my voice really quiet and I was like, Hey, you're not in trouble, but I do want to talk to you about this. And I was like, if you want to go to your cozy corner And settle down, which is something I created, cause you guys recommended it. So both my kids have a cozy corner now with some quiet time activities, some soft
Paige:see you all.
Megs:sit. It's so, Oh my gosh, my seven year old is up. She's what else could we add to our cozy corner? And, yeah, but it was neat because instead of reacting and instead of, freaking out about her pulling the cat's tail, I was able to allow her to calm down first, and I also allowed myself to calm down. And I went in curious, so, I started asking her some more questions about Hey, what went through your mind with that? And I also know that with ADHD, it comes with a lot of impulsivity. And so, Hey, did you think about that before you pulled the cat's tail? And yeah, it was just really neat to be able to approach it from that perspective. So. Seeing my kids have temper tantrums and knowing that it's a nervous system response now has helped me so much Because it helps me recognize when my chest is tightening And when I'm starting to have that nervous system response so that I can go do some deep breathing or like I don't know go lay on a floor and look up at the Ceiling for a second because I need to get out of that space I've also been taking my kids for drives or to get out of the house. If I can feel us, like on the verge of, a meltdown or something like that, there's been so many things that I've learned and it's really helped. And, for me, I've known that I've had ADHD. There's a lot that I've learned from that. But I know there's a lot of parents out there that are just finding out that their kids are neurodivergent. They have no idea that they're neurodivergent either, and so there's a lot of exploration here. And I think there's a lot of shame that can go into it when you start to say Oh my gosh, I have been doing this all wrong for so long. I'm curious what you would say to those parents who are just starting to discover how they can parent in a different way. And that there is a different way. how can we eliminate the shame and turn that into growth instead?
Lindsay:I firmly believe that every parent, and I know Paige feels the same way because we've talked a lot about our values but that every parent is doing the best that they can with the knowledge that they have. And so, and a lot of what you're trying to do and where the shame comes from, I think, is you're trying these things. parenting techniques that people are recommending. You see them on TikTok. Even some of the gentle parenting techniques on TikTok. They're not bad. They just aren't going to work for the way your child's brain is, right? And so we look at it and we say, we're doing it wrong. And it's not that you're doing anything wrong. It's that we're learning how to do it right. And that's what all of us are doing because even our parenting techniques, and we talk about this a lot in our small group, we can give you all of these options, but what's going to work for your family and your specific child is going to be unique to their brain and how they operate. And so it's just, it's all trial and error, even for us in our own homes. with our own children. I try stuff all the time and I'm like, that, that was bad. That was bad.
Paige:Yep, exactly. And I think too, we are just so exposed and consume so much media around what is good parenting, what you should be doing in parenting. And all of the shoulds are things we try to keep out of it. It's we're exposed to these things constantly, where we're, you And I think a lot of us had difficult childhoods just comparatively. So we're swinging the pendulum in the opposite direction where we're almost over correcting and wanting to be like perfect and do the perfect things. And so another thing that we often talk about is the more, you know, the better you do, That's like our catchphrase, not coined by me. It's somewhere on the internet, I'm sure. But also like more important than what you do in the moment is the opportunity to repair. It will always be more important. So if you feel like you tried something and it didn't work, it's okay to share that with your kids. And if you feel like a repair is needed to apologize and reconnect. Yeah.
Lindsay:now 13 and I'm just discovering this way of parenting and there may be, but you can have a conversation about that and repair and it is just as healing and restorative so just remembering that as you learn and grow and have conversations with your kids, if you're open to hearing their experience, to talking with them, to taking accountability for things, it's going to be okay. And most of the time, if you're worried about being a good mom, you are a good mom. So do
Megs:And this rings true for me is that you're the best mom out there for your kids, like you've made them and there's no one else that you would trust raising your kids. Like you are the one for them. And as you continue to learn and grow, you'll continue to show up in newer and better ways, as long as you're trying. So I love that, In the end, we love our kids so much and we're going to do so much for them. I think, I do find it interesting about like the different generations. I think as millennials and Gen Z, we're learning so much about the parenting experience. And I think that there's a lot of healing that also probably needs to be done. I know from my own experience in the way that we are parented there's a lot that we're trying to break those generational curses and try to do different things when we're also seeing our parents and possibly their parents that aren't doing anything about it, right? Like they're at the point that they are, there's no more learning or growing. And so it's, making peace with that. And helping our kids learn and grow in a different way.
Paige:Yeah.
Megs:okay. so tell me a little bit about how you possibly stay organized with everything you have going on. You each have two businesses, right? and ADHD husbands. what does that look like?
Lindsay:I'm a shit show.
Paige:all are, right? I think we have a, like, when I very first met Lindsay, I was talking to her about this idea of, mom guilt, and the mindset of mom guilt, and how, we had moved to an area that was, like, super judgmental, and everyone's, anti all these things, and all of your food, and it all has to be home, it was this whole ordeal, so I had spent like 12 hours trying Making this soup for my kids with these organic ingredients and these dry beans and like all this stuff and like homemade bread and like we sat down at the table and they literally were like not eating that and then got up and walked away and I was like how dumb that I felt like I needed to be trapped in this space of what the expectation of everything around me told me I needed to do to be a good mom when in reality like my kids love freaking tomato soup and a quesadilla. I put myself in that position. so this idea of like, how to be organized, Lindsey and I talk a lot about, especially last season on the podcast, because it's all about ADHD and organizing your life with ADHD and understanding it and making it work for you. I call them life hacks. Lindsey does too, pretty much, where we like, hack our house in a way that makes the most sense for us. And so that's different for each person. But some like unconventional things that I do is I have a go bag, which is like something in my car that has everything that I would need because I will inevitably forget something. I just will. So it just lives in the car. So then whatever I need will be in the car and I don't have to worry about it. everything has a home. So in my house, the things that I need have a home and it's not cutesy. It's not cutesy, but it is mindful. Because I don't remember where I set things down. So if it has a designated place, then predictably, it will be in that place when I need it, even if I can't remember putting it there. with our family, we do a Sunday family reset. And so that looks like together as a family, we have a list of chores that we all complete together as a family. And recently I put together like a visual chart for my kids each, specifically for their bedrooms. So I try to stay between three to six tasks because it's something we've been practicing But like each one is a picture And so when it's hey, it's time to clean your room Like I can body double for them, but they can direct themselves at this point of okay, i'm right here I need to pick up the dishes. I need to pick up the trash. I need to pick up my toys I need to make my bed. So being able to like work together as a family body double as a family You It makes a huge difference just knowing we're all NeuroSpicy, so that's just like a few of my personal life hacks on being organized, at least in the home.
Megs:Yeah.
Lindsay:yeah, mine are similar. I have a laundry basket and like the common areas of my house because they're, I feel like clothes just end up laying on the floor everywhere. I don't know. My kids don't like to wear clothes most of the time. They just, or they change their outfit. So I've got laundry baskets everywhere so that, it's easy to just put it in the basket. I live by the reminders. This app on my iPhone, I have it like broken down into categories based on which business and the page. And I have one and we can just assign who needs to do what or what we're working on. And let's see other things. We also do we clean and reset as a family, because of the body doubling piece. We usually do once in the evenings, we like pick up all the floors or, put stuff away and then take care of the animals together. And we all rotate jobs. As far as organizing my house, that's something I'm really working on. So I don't know if you have more tips than I do about that, but. I do know that I need to keep the things that I use the most visible or I will forget that they exist. And so I'm trying to find a way to do that. That is still clean and organized.
Megs:I love that. I, and I love the way that you speak about it too, because I think what we see on social media is what people then think that organized needs to be. But organized just means Whatever you desire it to mean like making a definition for your family and what works for you And like I love the idea of having a go bag in your car that's something that you can just go to because you know that there's going to be things in there like snacks or I know my daughter in the car gets car sick And so we always have to have those little bands in the car or like dramamine or something so that she will actually go on the highway with us without crying the whole time, there's so many things That we have to just figure out what works for us instead of what works for social media and what we think that we have To do so thank you for sharing because I you know I think that's the same with parenting right like what works for me isn't necessarily going to work for the next person And that's why I don't have a video out there. That's like how to have a perfectly organized desk Because it's going to be different for everyone and it's going to make sense differently depending on the way that you live your life. And so, yeah, there's always ways that we can improve. and there's always ways that we can grow our knowledge to build upon that, which is really cool. one thing that you guys helped me with too, I listened to your podcast and I say this to my husband now, I shared it with him. is you were like, you know what? If I was dead, my husband would be able to figure it out. I'm like, I can't tell you how much that has helped me because sometimes I hear him talking to the kids and I'm like, Oh, he's doing it wrong. But I'm like, Okay. I need to take a step back. And yeah. Sometimes I just need to allow him to go in there and make the mistakes that I've already made so that he can also learn himself
Lindsay:page when we were recording it. This is morbid, but let's like, if I was dead, Zane's got this. Yeah.
Paige:And some people that like don't struggle with that are like, that's weird. Why would you say that? And then my husband was like, the other day he reminded me that I was dead. He was like, remember you're dead. And I was like, Oh yeah, I'm dead. You got this.
Lindsay:it is so important to, I think, to let our partners or co parents go through the same process because, especially if they're neurodivergent, I know there's some drive for autonomy or demand avoidance in my husband, and so hearing me say it makes him less likely to try it than to experience it himself, and so me being dead and backing off gives him that opportunity.
Megs:Yeah. I like that too. I found myself asking him too. I'm like, Hey, do you want my advice or do you want to just play this out the way that you're doing it? I find that's so fascinating because we take on so much as moms, as business owners, as trying to do it all. That if we try to parent them to and teach them everything that we know, they're not going to learn. And we need to be able to rely on them. And by taking a step back and saying no, you'd be able to handle it. And I trust you. That almost gives them the empowerment to learn themselves too. Instead of just waiting for us to tell them everything they know that they are empowered. So,
Paige:I think it definitely also benefits us because if you can get to the place where you can successfully. feel like you're letting go of some portion, like you can trust in your partner, then you're going to have more space and time in yourself for things that you need, which is another part of what we talk about when we cover like nervous system, right? if we're doing and being at all, even when you have a partner, you are not able to care for yourself in a way where you can also show up for your family. And so I work with a lot of women who are like, I just could never know. what would happen if you just didn't like, what would happen if you went to the gym and let your husband do school drop off instead? You're like, I just, that's just, I don't know. And I was like, you figure it out. this is one of your goals that they'll figure it out.
Megs:right. They'll make mistakes and that's okay.
Paige:Yeah. And their relationship will be better. The parent child relationship will be better because of those mistakes.
Megs:I find that the more I learned too. And the more that we learn about ourselves as people with ADHD is like, we're able to help each other tap out. this morning, my husband was having a really hard time with the kids. So I was like, get out of here. I got this. And so like, when we can notice that in one another, we show up as a team more. And then we, I know that he'll tell me to get out of the room if he notices that he can handle this better. And it's interesting too, is like when you start to notice those things. I almost am ready to show up better because I know that he needs me to and vice versa because we are starting to recognize that in one another. And so it's neat to be able to have that partner. I know not everyone has that, right? And that's hard too, I'm curious if you guys wanted to do an exercise like you did in your workshop for low demand parenting, or on your podcast, because I find that was something that was really helpful for me.
Lindsay:Yeah,
Megs:cool.
Lindsay:we trying to figure out? Give us an example. Do
Megs:one thing I've seen come up lately, and I know I'm a culprit of this too, is saying It's time to clean your room right now. Now is the time I've decided that like now is the time that you have to clean their room, your room, go get it done. And then my kids will go in and they'll just play in their room, which causes me to have some additional anxiety about that. I want my kids to clean their room when. when. I tell them to, and they're not doing it, what, how do I get through to that?
Lindsay:Why is it important that your kids clean your room, the room at that specific time?
Megs:I guess it's because I've noticed that the room is messy. And so it feels like it's important that before they go to bed, before we start a week, before, before we move on to something that could make the house even more messy, that their room needs to be clean because it feels like a fresh start.
Lindsay:And if there's not a fresh start, what would that mean?
Megs:But the room would stay messy. I
Lindsay:And what's the problem with that,
Megs:guess I recognize the feeling of it being clean. As like the feeling is nicer, it feels a little bit more peaceful, but it's also not my room that I'm spending time in, right? I'm putting them to bed in that room, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be clean for me. But I wonder if they're feeling some of the same things that I'm feeling in their room. For sure.
Paige:So it sounds like it's important to you for your kids to have a clean room because if your home doesn't feel a level of cleaner organized than you experienced. More anxiety, which you know is harder on your nervous system and you don't show up like you want to and then You also believe like that could potentially be why your kids aren't able to show up like they want to So here's my question then and this would take some like conversation with your kids What do they want their room to look like so they can show up as their best selves? What does that feel like for them?
Lindsay:I'd even have them show you.
Megs:Oh, that's brilliant. I like that because I, it's funny. My daughter sees me organizing, right? And I've helped them organize their room to put things in certain places. And my seven year old looks at me the other day. She's mom, why don't we have labels? Like you've done in the other kids rooms. And I was like, Oh, do you want labels? And she's like, yeah, I want labels, which is so funny because I'm like, without labels, how are your kids going to know where to put things back? And that's literally then what she told me.
Paige:and I have very different personalities with my kids too. So one way that we've worked through dropping some of these demands is I have created those charts like I was telling you and I can I share my screen? Is that a thing here?
Lindsay:How fancy.
Megs:Oh my
Paige:gosh, okay. So I have these like editable, edit
Megs:gosh. Cute.
Lindsay:just have those like ready to
Paige:Yeah, I just have them because I'm a creature of resources. and then I, so I broke it down to six steps, right? Six steps for what their room feels like for them and just generalize it. And I don't have it saved with what I did, but it was like, pick up toys. Make it neat and tidy. So that's our phrase and neat and tidy looks different for each of my kids. One is very organized, wants labels like this, everything is categorized. The other one just organizes the chaos on top of the dresser, but everything and every piece of paper and cardboard box is important to them.
Megs:it.
Paige:for them, that neat and tidy is those cardboard boxes, like being lined up or whatever. Like cool. Defined by them. And so I wasn't actually sure how this would go because I used to body double and walk through it with them one by one hey we're doing this and then we're doing this and then we're doing this and so this last week I was like hey look on the back of your door you guys each have a chart for the steps of your room and they're all labeled with our common terms and I printed them in black and white and then they colored them and I put them in like a page protector and just taped it to the back of the door. but they were able to look at it themselves and it was easy to redirect. Cause if they came out of their space, I was like, what step are you on? And they're like, oh, I'm on dishes and garbage. I'm like, awesome. Like you're halfway there. And then they have the freedom to pick which step they're going to do, how it's going to be defined and look like for them and how much time each step takes. But they like, and I would check in, And I even was prepared to body double. And then. They didn't need me. I was like, what? hurt, but okay.
Megs:I saw a TikTok video the other day of a woman who, she did something like that, but she cut them all up and put them in a bowl. And with that, she also put like little rewards in there, have a piece of candy. You get five minutes of tablet time. But in order for you to get to pull something out, you would have to complete the first task. And then that was how she got them to complete their room. So making it a fun game, and doing one thing at a time. okay, only go and pick up the stuffed animals, and then come back and grab something else. So, I thought that was really cool too, and totally outside the box. I was like, why didn't I think of that? it's just so interesting. The things we learn from talking to our kids. Cause I think at least in my childhood, I was told what to do a lot. And I never was asked what I wanted. And that's one of the first things I asked kids when I go in, what do you want your room to be. What do you want this to look like for you? And what does organized mean? Do you know what that means? And do you know where things go? And that's a lot of the things too. It's kids don't even know where things go and you're asking them to put them away. I know I used to shove things under my bed. it's a way you told me to put it away.
Paige:Exactly. And when we're talking about like Why this was an important value for you, right? It makes sense. You want them to have a clean space. You want them to feel good in it. And then being able to get their engagement and defining what that looks like. And then also handing over the rest of it, right? We handed over the what, how the win, why all back to them, just with the expectation that they were going to create a safe space for themselves, that's ultimately your value here.
Megs:yeah, I like that a lot. Thank you for that, right? it's fascinating how many demands we have as moms until we start to question them. I've, it's been. A very interesting journey to be on so
Paige:There's a many a time when I say no and my kids say why, and I'm like,
Lindsay:Actually, I don't know why. Go
Paige:yep,
Lindsay:Yeah.
Paige:I'm like, actually, I don't have a reason, never mind, go ahead, do the thing.
Megs:I know I grew up where it was like, no, mom is right. And there's no questioning her. I think it's just really neat to have that dialogue with your kids where you still have like authority, so to speak, but it's a dialogue where they can question you. And you can start to work through some of the things where you have that relationship instead of just a you do this and you have to do this type of thing.
Lindsay:the goal is to teach them life skills, not to manage and micromanage their life. And so we sometimes we think life skills means them doing it our way, and that's not accurate.
Paige:Yeah,
Megs:brilliant. That's a great perspective. Thank you guys so much for being here today. I like, it's been so amazing working with you. can you tell us real quick about your small group and how people can find You
Lindsay:You can find us on Facebook. TikTok at Mindful as a Mother, Instagram at Mindful as a Mother Co, I think. We also have an email list if you want to hop on and join newsletters and I'll let Paige tell you about our small group.
Paige:Yeah. So our small group is a four week small group that we've priced at 150 for four weeks. They happen consecutively. What we cover is the first two weeks is the understanding of the nervous system, what that looks like for you and your kids, why it's important, like we briefly touched on and then skills to support you and your kids in those like fight flight. I'm going to fight you because you're the parent things. And then weeks three and four are really tailored to the individual group. so what specifically those people in that group are seeking out of it is how we create the content to be most supportive. Each week we do an individualized Q& A, and then we also opportunities for some one on one coaching. if participants feel like they need more support and one of our very favorite things and priorities from the group is being able to create the sense of community that you're not the only one doing this. and we've all experienced these things. It's not as isolating as it feels.
Megs:That's awesome. Thank you so much. And I highly recommend it cause I've done it. I'd like to do it again because I feel like there's so much more that I can learn from that. And thank you both so much for being here today. Thanks for sharing your expertise and I'll put all of the links in the show notes below so people can get in contact with you.
Paige:thank you.
MacBook Pro Microphone-1:That conversation was so awesome. Paige and Lindsay are such a wealth of knowledge. And I also love their vulnerability and honesty. I think sometimes we look at motherhood and we see other moms and we compare ourselves to these women who are doing it seemingly perfectly. And then we look at ourselves and beat ourselves up because we're doing everything wrong. But it's just so nice to be able to have real conversations. Talk about the things that we do feel shame around, understand that we're not alone in it. And then be able to make the modifications and understand how to actually make modifications in mothering. So that we can show up better than we did before. And I was also having a conversation recently with another neurodivergent mom who parents neurodivergent kids. She was taking a course as well. And she doesn't have a significant other partner to tap her out. And so she has the support of this other parenting group. That's just helping her through, they call it the tunnel. When her kids can't be consoled, they are. Not in a place where logic is going to support them at all. You can't tell them to stop. They're just going through it. And. Having to sit through and help them regulate their own emotions without being to tap out. That's a whole nother level. And I know Paige and Lindsay can help with that as well. They have experienced doing, I think Paige touched on that a little bit too, but I wanted to make sure that I highlighted that. I loved how Lindsay talked about how the biggest shift in her own parenting. Was understanding herself. And I have to say ditto. It has been such a game changer To just recognize when I might be experiencing dysregulation so that I can start to put together some techniques that could help me. And sometimes it is. Going in my closet and sitting in the corner and having a good cry, honestly. Or, you know, tapping out and closing the door. But whatever works for you. It's just really nice to know that we're not alone in this. Another thing is finding what works for your family and not just taking a piece of advice, trying it once and failing. And then just thinking that you're bad at it and beating yourself up and going on. I really highly recommend that you sign up for Paige in Lindsay's a small group. They mentioned it's$150. I forget how many weeks it is, but it's incredible. It's currently open for new members. All of the links are in the show notes below. You won't want to miss the chance to learn directly from them They ask you questions. They help you work through your own specific needs. They're just incredible. I also want just last week, my own membership community. I'm so excited to invite you to join. When you join your first month is$5 off with the code podcast. Now regular monthly cost is going to be$27 a month. You're going to get a monthly body doubling from me. You'll also get a monthly Q and a, which is group coaching. Just work a little bit deeper into your own organizing journey and figuring out what works for you. I've wanted to create a community for a really long time. And I'm so excited to invite you. There's so many things that I'm inviting you to. Go with what makes the most sense for you in this moment? And if, what makes the most sense for you as listening to this podcast? Awesome. Is it learning how to parent a little bit more? All the links are in the show notes below. no matter what, let's keep building a community that supports and uplifts one another. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a review, share it with someone who needs to hear this. Your support means the world to me. And I know some people recently have said. I love your podcast so much. And I have so many people who could benefit from hearing this message. But they're hesitant to send it to them because they're so nervous that they're going to take it the wrong way. And so from that, it's just a little bit of communication again. And I would say, ask those people a question before you send it. If you're concerned about it and say, Hey. I'm listening to this really cool podcast about organizing an ADHD brain. I thought of you. Would it be okay if I sent this and you don't even have to say, I thought of, you could just say. I really want to share it because the host told me to. You don't put it back on me. It's totally cool. and take a listen and then you can send a link if they say yes or no. until next time. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much for sharing your awesome stories about how the podcast is supporting you. Oh, I also have two more coaching spots starting in the month of February. So if you want to get in on that, Just go to the link in the show notes below and get on a call with me. I'd love to chat and see if coaching is a good fit for you. See you next week.
