Is It ADHD? Diagnosis, Acceptance & Passion Overload: an Interview with Sam Milburn

Connect with Sam: PODCAST

Sam's Instagram: CoulditbeADHD_thepodcast

Sam's Marketing Instagram: Sam.Milburn.Digital.Marketing

Host Megs interviews Sam, the creator of the podcast 'Could It Be ADHD?', to delve into their ADHD diagnosis journeys and experiences. They discuss the disparities in healthcare systems between the UK and the US, particularly focusing on the UK's NHS. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding ADHD brains for personal growth and organization. Sam shares insights into her diverse career background, her challenges in the UK healthcare system, and her strategies for coping with ADHD in both personal and professional contexts. They also explore the high prevalence of ADHD among marketers and the unique challenges that come with neurodivergent brains. Both Megs and Sam discuss their personal struggles and coping mechanisms, emphasizing acceptance and adaptation. They also touch on the difficulties of seeking a diagnosis for children and the potential impact on education and accommodations.

03:42 Interview with Sam: Background and Podcast Journey

08:14 Sam's ADHD Diagnosis Journey

10:56 Challenges and Realities of ADHD Diagnosis in the UK

13:41 Comparing Healthcare Systems: UK vs. US

17:00 Life After Diagnosis: Acceptance and Moving Forward

19:34 Opposites Attract: Navigating Differences in Marriage

20:16 ADHD and Communication: Strategies for Better Understanding

21:25 The Struggles and Solutions of Forgetfulness

23:56 Embracing ADHD: Acceptance and Self-Love

28:32 The Digital Marketing Journey: Finding a Niche

34:24 Marketing to Neurodivergent Audiences

37:58 Parenting with ADHD: Challenges and Insights

Book a 20-minute call to see if COACHING is a good fit for you: Megs Calendar

Join the Organizing an ADHD Brain COMMUNITY: https://www.mindfulmegs.com/thecommunity

^USE CODE: PODCAST for $5 off your first billing cycle.^

Get your Free DOPAMINE MENU download MindfulMegs.com/dopaminemenu

The TO DO list Daily Planner is available here! TO DO List Daily Planner

The ULTIMATE Recycling & Disposal Guide: Disposal Guide

Transcript

WH-1000XM5-1: 0:42

Hey, beautiful people. Welcome back to organizing an ADHD brain. I am your host Megs and I am super excited to be bringing you a special interview I did with my friend Sam who hosts the podcast Could It Be ADHD?

WH-1000XM5-2: 0:55

I originally started interviewing people last year about their diagnosis journey, because I felt like it was really important for us to start seeing similarities and other people to truly understand that we're not alone out there. And if we're not alone in these diagnosis journeys and understanding our brain, then we're certainly not alone in finding organization and finding a way to get decluttered in a way that works for us and not against us. So a couple of things that I really love about this podcast is first, we talk about the UK's public health system called the NHS. I don't know a ton about it, but I learned so much in this interview about how the healthcare system works overseas. It was pretty fascinating to understand that journey versus the journey that so many of us have sought out here in the United States. what I love about these conversations and what I love about the people that I've met through this podcasting journey is that I know people now in the UK and in New Zealand, and I see people listening in Italy and in France and thank you, I'm so darn honored. when you meet new people from different places, it's so incredible to have conversations about how things work because it allows you to gain new perspective and understanding about how different the world is. Different and amazing, much like our ADHD brains, if you will. What I also absolutely love about Sam is her love for all of the different things that she has her hands in. So she is not only a mom, but also a wife and a wife trying to understand her diagnosis so that she can communicate better with her husband. But then she's also a certified dog trainer, and she comes from digital marketing, but she has quite a diverse background when it comes to her working history. And what's incredible about that is so do many of you. So many of us have so many different interests, and sometimes we put ourselves down for it, but truly, it's what gives us a leg up on life, because we have had so many of these different experiences. What's hard is we know how good we can be at so many of these different things that sometimes when we do take a step back and narrow down our hobbies to just a few instead of quite a few too many, there's so much more that we can build on in those spaces, which is really neat. This is important to the organizing journey, because I want you to see how other people's brains work and how they're so similar to the way that you think, not that we have the same brains or we're the same people, but the way that they operate, right? The way that we are so interested in so many different aspects of the world and. We want to try so many different jobs, and we want to be really, really good at so many of the things that we do. And so just understanding that that is a normal thing is so important. Because once you understand how normal that is, you accept these different ways that your brain works so that you can adapt to them, instead of allowing them to take over. Let's go ahead and dive into this interview because I'm so excited for you to hear it. I did experience some technical difficulties when I was recording this, so please keep that in mind as you're listening. I have fixed that going forward for future interviews, but definitely keep that in mind. It's progress over perfection when it comes to editing and podcasts, and I'm still doing all the editing myself, and so thank you for your grace and support as we continue to work through this. Enjoy.

Megs: 4:22

Welcome back to organizing an ADHD brain. I'm so excited to introduce you to Sam. She's from the UK and I've been following her on social media and we became just immediate friends, here. So, Sam, tell us a little bit about you and a little bit about what you do.

Sam: 4:37

On. Massively, massively appreciate it and a big fan as well. I've been following you for a little while. tell you about me. Oh my gosh. Where do, where do I start? have a, I have a big backstory, but basically at the moment right now, what I'm doing is I set up a podcast called, Could It Be ADHD? Back in May. very impulsively when I got my diagnosis. I thought, right, what can I do with this information? I know I'm going to talk about it and I know I'll just put it online because, because I'm a digital marketer and this is what we do. We have an idea. and we think, okay, how, what can I do with this information? I can't keep it in. I've got this idea, this brilliant idea. And so it turned into a podcast, even though I'd never, well, I tell a lie. I had done a podcast before. I'd done a little mini podcast last year. little podcast series. I was like, okay, I know how to do this now. So I'll do that. and just started talking about my ADHD diagnosis journey and experience. I found it quite difficult. and wanted to share that with other people and then thought, you know what, I'll interview other people about their diagnosis journey. especially in the UK, it's very, it's a struggle to get a diagnosis here, on, on the NHS. privately as well. There's like a stigma around getting a private diagnosis. There's so many things to cover and talk about. I wanted to sort of share that and explore that more, online and also kind of battle some of those stereotypes that we see around ADHD. because ADHD is so broad, right? It's a real spectrum of traits and we only see tend to see a lot of the hyperactive side of it. And I'm in attentive ADHD. So I wanted to share a little bit more about that so that other people could see themselves and, you know, feel empowered to go, do you know what, okay, I'm, I'm going to go and get diagnosis or self identify by having access to broader sort of information. So. I did that for a little while. I said, I did that for a little while. I'm still doing that now. and then, then also, I'm digital marketer and I've done that for, a number of years now. I used to work in the corporate world. lots of stories around that, worked in lots of different businesses, doing lots of different things. and then eventually wanted to work for myself so that I could be more present for my son. And also because I just found all of that. struggle for many reasons, being, there's nothing better, right, than being your own boss. Not having it, it's just not having those rules and limitations on what you can and can't do. you know, or you want to do something, well, okay, we'll talk about it at the team meeting, like, in a month's time. Well, no, we need to action this now, I had a few, employed jobs in between, but generally, yeah, I'm, I'm an online marketer now. working with, with small online businesses, people like me who just want to be able to work for themselves and not have to have someone else telling them what to do. Usually with like a passion or something amazing and usually neurodivergent people as well,

Megs: 7:28

Oh my gosh. It doesn't mean that neurodivergent people can't thrive in the corporate world because I come from the corporate background as well. And gosh, you know, it's so funny because sometimes I think about the, just the familiarity that you get from the corporate world or like the sustainability or that comfort feeling. And then the other morning I brought my car to the shop because I needed to get an oil change. And I brought all my work with me. And This is why this is why I'm an entrepreneur because I don't have to tell anyone about this. I just got to put it in my schedule and do it. And there's so much freedom when it comes to that, not living. In the box, right? no one can put us in a box is really what it comes down to.

Sam: 8:07

Absolutely, there are some really good businesses out there doing really, really good things for neurodivergent people. There was, one business that I used to work for and we were all remote. We all worked remotely and we didn't have to fill in timesheets and also when projects came up, we didn't have to stay within our departments. So if someone expressed, an excitement about being able to take on a certain part of the project, you could say, I would love to take part in this area because that's, although it's not my normal expertise, I think I'd be really good at it and I'd like to try it. And you kind of could like mix around a bit and really make use of people's skills. I thought that was brilliant. Brilliant. I really liked that. It felt very Apple like. I can imagine that's what it's like working at Apple or Google in that it's very like, you know, collaborative. So I think things like that work really, really well.

Megs: 8:55

Yeah, that's awesome. Can you tell us a little bit about your diagnosis journey? I think it's so fascinating to hear, especially as women, we're seeing so many women get diagnosed with ADHD later in life. That was my story too. So tell us a little bit about what that was like.

Sam: 9:11

Yeah. So it really only came about because my son had an autism diagnosis and ADHD was not something that I ever knew about. All I knew about ADHD was that it was a hyperactive disorder. I know that when my son had his autism diagnosis, I was told that they'd looked for ADHD, but couldn't see any sort of traits for ADHD in there, but he hadn't gone for an ADHD diagnosis. So I hadn't even considered that anyway. Obviously when you, as a parent start digging deeper into these things, like, well, I mean, I'm going to become an autism expert now, you know, and anything that comes into your life, you become the expert. Is that right?

Megs: 9:49

Absolutely. Yes.

Sam: 9:51

This is the same with my dog. My dog is reactive. So I got a dog training qualification because I needed to know how to train my dog. Like this is the kind of things that I do. So I was like, I must become this autism expert. So in all the research I was doing, obviously ADHD kept coming up into my social media feed and, you know, Typically Instagram, I'd listened to someone's podcast and there was a lady on there who had ADHD and she was talking, she was late diagnosed, and she was talking about her traits and I thought, oh my god, this, this is me and I've been medicated for anxiety and depression for a number of years now on antidepressants and I've suffered with anxiety for as long as I can remember. When I was a small child I was very anxious. I didn't like going to sleepovers. I didn't want to leave my house. I wanted to be at home with my books, in my bed, surrounded by my cuddly toys, under the covers, in my daydreams. I loved being in my daydreams. And anxiety was there throughout my life and just kind of getting worse and never really having a grasp on where that anxiety was coming from. And so as I was listening to all these traits, I thought, Oh my God, that's me. That's me. especially with the, the overthinking and the just not being able to finish things, having a million ideas and losing steam, starting up lots of little mini businesses, going from job to job, so many different things. and I thought, okay, I need to explore this a bit more. So then I started to look up more reputable information. I started to do the screening questionnaires, look at all the ADHD websites, and look at all their difference. So I think I must have done four or five screening questionnaires like you do because I wanted to check, is that right? Is it right? Does it, does it, what does this one say? What does this one say? and thought, okay, well, I'll go for the diagnosis. So I went to see over here in the UK, And tell them and they will, send your application off, to, an NHS provider. and then you go on a waiting list for 10 years. That's pretty much how it happens, works here, yeah. Yeah, the waiting list, the waiting, they've actually closed three waiting lists in the UK in regional areas because they've got too many people. The NHS in one area. I put this on a reel on my account the other day. They only do six assessments a month. They've only got NHS funding for six assessments a month. So there's no way they're going to get through the 4, 000 people they've already got on their waiting list and they're getting about 200 people a month.

Megs: 12:20

my gosh. that's, crazy.

Sam: 12:22

And obviously NHS is something that we, we pay for with our, you know, our taxes and stuff. when I found this information out and I wasn't getting a reply about how long this diagnosis would take, I then decided to go through something called Right to Choose. And that's where under the NHS you have a right to choose where you have your treatment. And there are about, I think there's about 10 right to choose NHA centers across the uk and they're huge. They've got capacity to, to deal with diagnosis. So I asked my GP to send me to one of those instead. there was a big mess up with the paperwork. So I was getting so anxious and so panicky because I needed to know this information. I couldn't, I do think that was my ADHD. I was having panic attacks because I needed to know the information and I needed to know yesterday. Like I couldn't think about anything else. It was really, really horrible. So I said to my husband, look, we need to pay privately. I need to, I need to get this information. So I need to know. Am I on the right medication? Is this anxiety? what do I do next? for me, I needed that bit of paper. I needed that because, yeah, my brain was not braining properly. so I paid privately, but then at the same time, I got the right to choose to go through at the same time, and then I got my diagnosis. It wasn't the best experience. but I'm pleased that I went through it. I would do it again. I absolutely would do it again. but also in the UK, I can see why people are so put off by it. especially when they find out, I speak to a lot of people who are on a waiting list. They're like, well, I've been on the waiting list for two, three years. Surely I'll get an appointment soon. and you're like, well, actually you, you're probably not, you're better off going through right to choose, but then you have to go and fill out a mountain of paperwork all over again and go through that same process of digging up all of that, history and all those things that you found really uncomfortable talking about in your past, like putting those all up again. So I can see why people don't want to do that. But yeah, it was for me, I definitely needed that

Megs: 14:21

What a mess of craziness to go through. And we've got our own mess over here, too. I know I would like to get a diagnosis for both of my girls. I do believe my 5 year old has autism and my 7 year old has ADHD. And I, like, yeah, you become an expert into it. Like, you recognize what's happening. But then in order for them to get a lot of the accommodations they need in school, they need the diagnosis to be able to move forward with that. And being an entrepreneur, I can't get the best healthcare. And so I'm paying into these different services for like catastrophic incidents, but then I'm also paying into like getting a primary care doctor. So to get a, to get a diagnosis or to even get them screened for it, it's 2, 000 each. And then.

Sam: 15:08

God.

Megs: 15:09

Yeah, and then you have to pay up front like there's no payment plan because they want to ensure that you're going to stay like, you know, that you pay for it. and in some cases, if if you can't show proof of insurance, they're like, we're going to cancel your appointment.

Sam: 15:22

So even children, so children have to have healthcare plans as well.

Megs: 15:26

Yeah. And it's frustrating. That's one thing I do miss about the corporate world is that I was provided with great healthcare. I still paid for it. And so I think that's like a common misconception that you get healthcare with work, but you don't, I probably was paying around 800 a month for my family. so, but then luckily my husband gets it for free through his work. They actually pay for him, which is really, really nice. But then I pay probably about. Actually about 800 for me and the two girls now. So it's, and then I'm afraid to use it because, oh my God, we could totally go down this rabbit hole. Cause I've been thinking about this a lot, but like. That I'm afraid to use it because I still have to, like, it's just a co pay. It's not like they'll pay for the whole visit or anything like that. I still have to pay for it additionally. Yeah, it's so frustrating. And then of course the shortage of medicine and things like that. It's been frustrating.

Sam: 16:16

It's frustrating and especially when your children need that, that information for the educational setting so that they can get those accommodations. I know here, They, they should get accommodations anyway, with or without a diagnosis. Um, but it's still, it helps to have the diagnosis. Obviously, they have access to, to more things, and it's almost like access to more, better understanding. Because it's, it's almost like you can't go, well, actually, they do have a disability. It's, yeah, that's, that doesn't, that doesn't seem fair.

Megs: 16:49

On the positive note, I feel like that's why we're having these conversations. To bring more awareness so that we can affect that change

Sam: 16:56

Yeah. And I think self-identifying with A DHD obviously in the US is probably even more important than in the UK because of the, the, the access. You know, at least here I'm very, very grateful for the NHS. It's a wonderful institution it's incredible. you know, and I've got family who work in the NHS, And at the moment that there is massive waiting lists all over the place, but at least we have something, you know, at least we have got these centers that we can go to that will take a year, you know, to get an assessment rather than 10 years. That's still not going to cost anything. You know, it's still, you know, and the same for our kids, you know, they still have that access that just going to take longer. It shouldn't take so long. but it, but it does. So, yeah, I'm, I'm truly, truly thankful for the NHS. They're wonderful.

Megs: 17:43

So you got your diagnosis then what? Right. So I know you have your podcast and of course you are a digital marketer. I love the way that you moved your digital marketing into more of an ADHD perspective. Like if your clients are ADHD, how do you market to them? And then in the same breath, you know, I'm curious just how, how you started to approach life after getting a diagnosis. Cause I know I was in denial. I was like, they don't know what they're talking about. What?

Sam: 18:11

if anyone's listened to my podcast, in one of my early episodes, I go into this about great detail the day after, because the day after my diagnosis, I had a full blown meltdown. Exactly that. I was like, no, no, they've got this wrong. I've convinced them that I'm ADHD. I've just been thinking about this for so long. I'm sure I've convinced them. So I wrote this huge long email to my clinician and said, Can you please just double check the notes? This is what I said. You did get it right, didn't you? Because it's okay. Sometimes people get things wrong, and that's absolutely fine. I really won't be upset. Like, I was like, I'm talking myself out of this diagnosis. I was like, if you need it out, here it is. Honestly, it's fine. And she came back, and she said, she said, I've got your email, but I've got lots of appointments today, so I can't review this now. I'm gonna have to review it next week. And I was like, oh my god,

Megs: 19:06

Oh, no. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

Sam: 19:09

like another 4 or 5 days to get re confirmation of my diagnosis, during which time I'm saying to my husband, oh my god, I panicked and I sent this email, and he's like, it'll be fine, honestly, just chill, they know what they're doing, it's all good, but You're doing your usual overthinking and taking it too far. she did come back the next week and she said, no, I've reviewed your notes or reviewed your email. I am still very happy with the diagnosis that i've given you. So once I got over that hurdle

Megs: 19:40

Yeah.

Sam: 19:41

then I then was like, okay, right. What do I what do I do now? So I thought the first thing I do is I i'm gonna publish the podcast. I'd already started recording it But I hadn't decided whether or not I publish it You Because I wasn't sure, if I didn't get the diagnosis and I'd have said, okay, well What is it then? I probably would have carried on the podcast. I would have maybe changed up, you know what it was anyway, so I published the podcast and then I started to interview other people and I did start to think right okay, well what I do now and I did lots of research on Sort of strategies for ADHD. So I started to make a note of like, what are the things that firstly, what are the things that me and my husband argue most about? Cause we are polar opposites of each other. Like it is the known thing we've been together for 20 years and all of our friends and family just would never have put us together in a million years. We are completely the opposite. he's, he's historically, he's been a solicitor for a number of years. He's now a coroner. He is like. As balanced and grounded as you can find me. I am one of the scattiest people you'll ever meet. So we are opposite and we're really good because like he grounds me. But I also, I think kind of push him out of his comfort zone a little bit. So we, we work really, really well together. so yes, I thought, okay, well, you know, some of the things that we argue about is, Me not listening, me not, like, apparently I don't listen. Um, when he sort of says, you know, I'm going to go and do X, Y, and Z this afternoon, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he's like, right, I'm going out now. I'll see you later. And I'm like, Hmm, going where, where are you going?

Megs: 21:21

ha,

Sam: 21:21

or I told you yesterday of this. So, you know, I told you to put this in your calendar. Why is it on your calendar? So anything like that, like any important, so we had this conversation and I sort of said, I don't do these things on purpose, this is ADHD, my mind is not listening, it's completely somewhere else, so how can we stop this, can you grab my attention, can you get me to repeat it back, what things we can do to make sure that I am listening, and you're not treating me like a child, it's absolutely fine, I know it sounds like you're babying me, but you're not, I just, I need you to do this, because then I will remember, or, you know, I will remember to put a note in my calendar or say, Sam, pull your calendar up on your phone now. Let's put it in now. Just little things like that that you can help me because it will stop us arguing later on. So having those like difficult, awkward conversations with maybe friends, family, like, friends now whose birthdays I forget all the time.

Megs: 22:20

my gosh. Yes.

Sam: 22:21

The amount of birthday books I've had with my friend's birthdays in. And then I lose the birthday book, you know, it's, it's, it's awful. But now I feel like, okay, now I have a bit of a reason for it. And there's a little bit more understanding maybe in a little bit more leeway. because the thing is my friends know that when I do remember their birthdays, they always get the most cracking presents, like

Megs: 22:45

Yeah.

Sam: 22:46

really well thought out, you know, especially at Christmas, like, People get some really good stuff from me, so it's not that I'm a horrible person, it's just that my brain is off braining doing something else. so the, yeah, the biggest thing for me was like, Hey, what strategies can I put in place to make things easier for myself to decrease my anxiety? Because I know now all these different things of what have caused my anxiety and panic attacks over the years. And I've tried to kind of, I'm still working on it. Like I think it's a lifelong process. I love that you do like helping people with clutter and organizing because that's a massive thing as well. Like that's another thing I've noticed that I've always done is my husband going, Sam, where's my keys? I put my keys down over here and now they've moved. I am constantly moving things because I'm constantly clearing things away into little dune piles, call them dune piles, like you just scoop everything up Because it's just annoying me and just like chuck it in a drawer out of the way Yeah, I did that.

Megs: 23:54

Did you know what it stands for?

Sam: 23:55

No

Megs: 23:57

Doom is didn't organize only moved. So yeah, though doom piles are so real. Yes

Sam: 24:05

Love it. Love it. Yeah, so things like that and and trying to know losing losing the car key and I, I kind of hate that one because that's a real stereotypical ADHD thing and you see that, see that, I did a thing on it the other day, but the sad thing is that it's so true, like even though I have a special place by the front door to leave my key, it, it doesn't always go there. So I now have two places that's helping by having two places, not restricted to one, I can have two. but yeah, it's just, it's a work in progress all the time and, and. not trying to fix myself, because I do actually quite like myself, which is quite nice. And I think that's a difficult thing, is to get to some sort of like acceptance on your ADHD traits. And I go, do I am quirky, and I am a bit scatty, just me. so yeah, I'm not trying to fix myself. I'm just trying to find ways to make life a bit easier.

Megs: 25:04

I love the way you say that too. I you know in the beginning I I Started to analyze all of my behaviors right and like say is that ADHD that ADHD and like then I was like I am just ADHD like it's it's me I thought I'm all all of it is me and it is all of me right like all of these things You Mesh together. There was this guy who reached out to me one time. This is totally a squirrel moment, but it's so important to say, because

Sam: 25:31

it. Yeah.

Megs: 25:32

he reached out to me. He's like, Oh, I've got this really cool thing. I think you could use in coaching. And I was like, okay. And I made this meeting with him and he was telling me all about this, this invention where they like put, they like train your brain to not be so ADHD anymore. And the more he talked about it, I was like, don't know, so much of this feels so weird, and I don't know what parts of me would change in a way that I would then have to get used to, like, I love, I just like understanding certain things that I do, and then modifying the way that I live. To meet the needs of my brain and the already quirkiness of my life.

Sam: 26:16

Hmm.

Megs: 26:16

I love the way that you say, like, you don't have to change and you figured it out. And honestly, like I talk about organizing, but in the sense that nothing is perfect and I still lose my damn keys all the freaking time. But I also have an Apple air tag on it because I know that like, that's where I'll go. And it's funny because when I put them away. That's when I, like, look everywhere else for them first. Like, I've put them in a way, in the spot that they go, and then I'm like, looking on the couch, and looking on the counters, and then finally I go back to where they actually go, and I'm like,

Sam: 26:50

That was so funny. That was so

Megs: 26:52

Right. But,

Sam: 26:53

Yeah.

Megs: 26:54

I do find that life has become easier now that I understand my brain, but easier in the sense that it's still, there's a lot of struggles that come along with it.

Sam: 27:02

Yeah. Yeah. And like you did it the other day, like I was. I was talking to my husband about something and I'd already talked about it like half an hour before. I was very excited about something and I was sharing and sharing and sharing again. And isn't this amazing? And isn't this, he said, you're really overdoing it now, Sam. You've told me this X times. I said, that's just me. I'm not going to change that about me. Like there's lots of things about my ADHD or about me in general, that might cause me anxiety, but I appreciate that sometimes you might find difficult, other people might find difficult. and I will, you know, adapt and have a level of awareness around some of those things, but I'm not going to change everything about me. I'm only going to change the things that are going to better me, not actually dull me down. Like. It's that whole thing of like, if you're too much for other people, that's their problem, not yours, not yours to change.

Megs: 27:54

and so many people need to hear that Cause I do feel like sometimes I silence myself and I want, like, when I get excited about things, all I want is for someone to ask me more questions so that I can like elaborate more. I'm like, I have so much more to share. I've even told my husband, cause my husband has ADHD as well. and, but he's not great at asking questions. He's good at listening. but I'm like. Maybe I could give you some questions that you could ask me when I'm talking about some of these things, and then that way we can work a little bit better.

Sam: 28:27

Oh my God. My brain is like, I need to have a list of questions now. I'm going to go and give them to someone.

Megs: 28:32

Yeah. Could you, could you pretend you're interviewing me for a podcast? Cause I've got a lot of things I have to get off of my brain right now. Yeah.

Sam: 28:41

I think this is, this is where having ADHD for like friends who are that way inclined comes in really useful and having that community of people, isn't it? Because you get each other and you'll, you'll do that and you'll celebrate each other. because you know that you just, you're so excited and you just want to keep going on and on about it and sharing everything.

Megs: 29:00

then they're like, Oh, sorry, sorry, squirrel moment. And you're like, no, no, no, I'm following. This is how my brain works. Like I'm on this squirrel moment with you. Let's go. Let's do it.

Sam: 29:09

Tell me more, tell me more.

Megs: 29:11

Exactly. Oh,

Sam: 29:13

it.

Megs: 29:14

Okay. So tell me a little bit about your digital marketing journey and how you discovered that you really wanted to put your passion well, you know, like I think it's interesting because you literally have a podcast for people with ADHD. So naturally, you're going to be speaking to people with ADHD. so yeah, tell me about that journey and how you found your sort of niche in the market.

Sam: 29:33

so I, I left school, at 16. I don't know what age you can leave school in the US, but we could, it has to be 18 now, but I left at 16. And I went to college for three months, decided I didn't like it because I felt like they still treated me like a child. And as far as I was concerned, I was an adult. So I went out into the big wide world and found myself a job. I managed to somehow get myself a job at a law firm at the age of 17. in the admin department. and I, I feel very lucky that I actually got in there cause it's really difficult now to get a job in a law firm because there are so many trainee solicitors that will go into admin jobs in law firms so that they're ready for when the training contact contracts come out. So it's not always that easy now to get into law firm. So yeah, I worked there for a very long time and I worked I worked in lots of different departments. I worked on reception. I worked in finance. then I ended up working in marketing. Marketing job came up. And I was studying at the time, business and finance because, I was interested in marketing and there was a big marketing module in that. And when I finished, I started making loads of suggestions to the senior partner about improvements they could make to their website. This is like, Oh my God. Okay. So I'm 42 so I was 25 about 15, 15 plus years ago. So I'm talking about, like, adjustments they can make to the website to better their SEO, you know, this is like 15 years ago when

Megs: 31:08

Yeah, heck yeah.

Sam: 31:10

become like a real thing. and internet marketing, I think it was, the module was actually called internet marketing at the time. I absolutely loved it. So when a job came up in the marketing department, I went for it and I got it and I worked that for a few years and realized that that's what I absolutely adored because it was so varied. I then ended up studying design as well. So I love drawing. I love painting. so that kind of comes into digital marketing as well, because it's very creative. I love, Writing, I love talking, that was all in there as well, but you're quite restricted in corporate, you've got your brand guidelines, everything has to look a certain way, and I, I, I left, not because of that, I left because my son was quite young, we were obviously in those early years of understanding that he could be autistic, and I was working, you know, Almost full time. And it was, it was becoming quite difficult. So I then left and I, I went through a range of part time jobs. I worked at an estate agents. I went in as an admin assistant, just for like a few hours a week. Within two months, I was the office manager. And

Megs: 32:23

Oh, my gosh. That's amazing. I

Sam: 32:27

They were like, so we're, it was a very small, very small firm. They're just two estate agents and me, the office assistant. I've been there for one day. And they said, right, we're going out to do viewings. Are you okay looking after the office? And I was like, yeah, awesome. Let's do it.

Megs: 32:41

love it.

Sam: 32:42

Just pretending to be an estate agent for the day. I worked at a site loss charity as an office manager. what else have I done? And I've also, more recently worked, for a big online training business for about a year and a half. And so marketing, peopling, creative have always kind of been there. And I've got a really interesting statistic for you because I saw this on LinkedIn last year. Go Amplify found that a high percentage of marketers have ADHD. they found that the marketers that they interviewed, the percentage, do do do do do, 38 percent of the respondents who work in marketing reported to have ADHD. 38 percent

Megs: 33:29

Oh my God.

Sam: 33:30

compared to, the average of the general population, which is three to 4%. And I think this is because it's such a varied role. No one goes, okay, I'm going to be a marketer. Generally you end up, all these people ended up just falling into that role because you just end up drawn to it. Like you might be in a business and you end up drawn into that department or drawn into that position, or you see it online, like digital marketing, you're drawn into it because I feel like it ticks all of those creative, boxes that you kind of crave, that ADHD craves. generally, if you're lucky, you get a lot of freedom with creativity. so yeah, I thought that was fascinating and it makes so much sense. In the online space, my husband hates that term when I say that I'll be in the online space where I am. Where are you? In the cloud somewhere. there is a lot of neurodivergency. There is a lot of neurodivergence in there. And because I've got traditional marketing qualifications. I'm sort of, qualified to sort of graduate level. It is very traditional, it is based on, a lot of old information and probably a lot of neurotypical way of thinking. Whereas, if you have an online business, a large proportion of your clients, if they have businesses, they're potentially a large portion of them are going to be neurodivergent. If they're, if they're entrepreneurs, a large portion of them, we, we know from lots of reports and statistics that are coming out lately, a large portion of neurodivergent. And so. That kind of crept into the marketing. I thought, okay, well, hang on. Are we, are we missing a trick here? Are we missing something? Because how many of us go on a website to buy something from someone and get distracted?

Megs: 35:17

Right.

Sam: 35:18

many of us go to the, to the, to the checkout box, can't see when it's going to be delivered. go and try and find the information on another page somewhere else. And then get distracted and leave completely and go somewhere else.

Megs: 35:29

Oh my gosh. Totally.

Sam: 35:31

there's lots of these other things that were maybe not taken into consideration with the neurodivergent brain when it comes to marketing. You know, how many people actually like reading through? PDF lead magnets. How about you provide your lead magnets, which for anyone that's listening who doesn't understand that term, it's something that you give to people in return for an email address, like a free kind of download or something. How about you provide that as an audio file, you know, in your voice, for example, so they can, they can listen to it as a podcast on the go. It might not improve the amount of downloads you get, but it might improve the people that are actually going to consume that information. Cause again, when you think about all the freebie leave magnets that you've signed up for and you get the email saying, here's your free PDF on how to do 10 things. Like it's like, how many of them do you actually look at and read through or read a page or read two pages? Whereas if you know, you've got an audio and you just stick it on and you've got your earphones in and you're walking around and stuff, you're probably more likely to consume it and then you're probably more likely to get to know that person. And so you start to build that relationship a little bit quicker. So I think there's lots of little things that we could be missing out on when it comes to marketing, to neurodivergence. So I've started to put those two things together and concentrate more on that in my digital marketing to make information more accessible, but also inclusive as well to everybody, kind of goes quite nicely.

Megs: 36:57

I love that so much. And what I think is fascinating is. You're saying like, what if we had an audio file? And I'm like, yeah, that's what I want. But because I, because I'm thinking so much about organizing, right. And doing my podcast, I'm not thinking about all of these other ways that I can speak to my audience. And so as an entrepreneur, I find that I've had to take off some of the hats that I feel like I need to be an expert at to trust and rely. On the other people that are experts. Like I finally, I hired a bookkeeper and he's incredible. He is audie HD and I freaking love him. He created a, flow chart. So that I could easily categorize the things I'm working with. And then my assistant is ADHD and she's like so brilliantly creative Sam. Thank you so much for being a guest on the podcast. I'm so excited for people to connect with you, follow you on social media. Everyone go follow Sam, get in touch with her. And thanks again.

WH-1000XM5-3: 37:56

as you can see the interview cut off toward the end there, but I hope you enjoyed that recording just as much as I did. I just really enjoyed the conversation. I learned so much. if you want to go follow Sam, her Instagram is at, could it be ADHD underscore the podcast on Instagram and her podcast, I'll link all of this in the show notes below is could it be ADHD. I also subscribed to her email newsletter, and I love it. It's great. I learned so much from her because it truly feels like she cares about the ADHD audience. And I just want you all to know that I am constantly looking for ways to improve myself and improve the way that I can show up for you. And of course for myself. It's so fascinating to relive the diagnosis journey every time I not only listen as I'm editing these podcasts, but also When I'm actually doing the interviews themselves It almost feels like something else new comes up each time I listen to it that I start to discover something new about myself in Maybe the way that I react to things but then also my acceptance journey and how far I've come Since getting that diagnosis over three years ago now we also talked about our kids getting a diagnosis, I feel very fortunate in our journey so far. Each and every teacher that we've worked with has been very receptive to trying new and different things that might be a little outside the box when working with our kiddos, I am sometimes concerned about what it might look like as they get a little bit older. I already see my five year old having perfectionist tendencies, and that she hates being wrong. And I think some of us do too, but I just wonder what it looks like to actually have the conversation to help her understand that it's okay to make mistakes, and in fact, that is how you learn. That is one of the most important things about learning is making the mistakes, having the failures so that you can look back on them for the evidence on what you should try differently next time. That has definitely been an important and interesting journey when it comes to being a mom. But I bring that up because in this moment, it's not as if we've gotten a diagnosis and we're not seeking out medicine in that case. But I am looking to. therapists and people that specialize in ADHD and coaches as well for different ways that you can approach certain situations that you can show up a little bit differently as a parent. it's quite fascinating this journey that we are on together. Also, forgetting birthdays. Oh my goodness. It's so shameful, it's so embarrassing, and especially when Facebook is not reminding you to wish someone a happy birthday. And side note, I have decided to take myself off of Facebook. I am actually leaning towards not being on social media as much because I do feel like it can take up some of my time and I wanted to limit the amount of screen time I have unless it's for deep learning and truly Understanding how I can elevate myself to the next level. Lastly, I just want to leave you with this. I love how Sam talks about how she likes herself. And how she genuinely just likes who she is and her quirks and her idiosyncrasies and all of these beautiful things about her. And I appreciate that she says that because you're allowed to love those things about yourself as well. All of it. And for the things that don't feel as good, like having so much clutter around, or maybe feeling like you do need some support in figuring out where you've left everything, in those cases, you're allowed to seek improvement. That's where you look at the failures and say, what's causing this? How is my brain affecting me that I can't remember where things are? But you're allowed to love that about you. And you're allowed to accept that about you, too. this Friday, the 21st in the community, we're having our Q and a or monthly group coaching. I'm really excited for that. So if you decide to join my community before Friday, then you're welcome to join in as well. This is where we all come together as a community, talk about some of the things that aren't working well, and I answer different questions that you have about some of the spaces that you're trying to tackle in your home. I would love to meet you. I would love for you to meet the other incredible people that are part of the community as well. I hope you're having an incredible week this week. I'll see you next week.