From Struggle to Strategy: A Financial Therapist on ADHD, Money, and Rewriting the Narrative

Lindsey is a financial therapist, here to help you feel excited about money! (Yes, it's possible!) Money is more than just a math problem; there is always so much more to the equation. Merging behavioral therapy and financial education, Lindsey helps you live your dream life!

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Financial Self Care Blog: https://financialselfcareblog.com/blog/

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In this episode of 'Organizing an ADHD Brain,' our host is joined by Lindsay, a financial therapist and coach, to discuss the intersection of ADHD and financial management. They delve into Lindsay's personal ADHD journey, the common financial challenges faced by those with ADHD, such as impulsivity and executive function difficulties, and practical strategies to overcome these hurdles. Lindsay shares insights into behavioral approaches to money management, her unique method of tracking expenses, and the importance of understanding one's money story. The conversation also touches on the generational shifts in money habits and the emotional aspects of financial decision-making. This episode is filled with actionable advice for anyone looking to improve their financial wellness while managing ADHD.

00:56 Lindsay's ADHD Journey and Financial Therapy

02:47 Common Financial Issues and Solutions

05:43 Personal Finance Tips and Tools

08:49 Budgeting and Emotional Spending

14:58 Generational Money Habits

21:58 Financial Therapy and Wealth Management

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Transcript

0:42

Hey, beautiful people. Welcome back to another episode of organizing an A DHD Brain. I'm so excited to talk to you this week about finances and getting those organized and figured out. This week I'm joined by Lindsay. She has a podcast called Financial Self-Care. It's a weekly chat about how to take care of yourself and take care of your money. And she's also a financial therapist and coach, so she coaches people no matter where they are in their financial journey. I'm so excited to chat with her because we have a real life conversation about. A DHD finances, getting organized with your money, but also how organizing your money can truly impact your physical organization and how you manage your money in spending and impulsivity and things like that. Without further ado, let's go ahead and jump into this episode. I'm so excited to introduce you to Lindsay. Lindsay, tell us a little bit about you, your A DHD journey and what you do. Yeah, I am a financial therapist and so I am deep in mixing like behavioral therapy with financial education. I myself have a DHD and it is a recent diagnosis actually within the last year. And to be honest, I have so many close connections with other psychologists who do testing for A DHD that every single one of them have told me, don't bother getting tested because it's just so clear that you have it. And so it's been a very. Interesting year to learn about, my A DHD brain. Because for so long I was like, I don't have it. I don't have it. I don't have it. And then the more and more I learn it, I was like, okay, I think I just need to come to terms which isn't even really coming to terms, it's actually just. Like to navigate the world and feel validated in my neurodiversity. So that's who I am, what I do, and where I'm at in my journey. I was listening to your podcast and it's fascinating to listen to the relationship that you have with money and your husband, the way that you handle your money. Because for so long I know I've struggled with money, whether it's a scarcity mindset or just understanding what to do with it when I have a surplus or understanding what to do when I don't have a surplus and really navigating the world of finances because in most cases we see a correlation of A DHD equals not financially savvy. And I would love to bust that myth wide open because so many people I talk to with A DHD are also great with finances. It's just about knowing how to navigate that. Your podcast is amazing, so I can't wait to link it below and have everyone go and listen. What do you see is one of the biggest issues that people come to you with when it comes to finances? Such a good question. There's so many different layers here because. For a very long time, finances were taught by old white men who were. Like income minuses is your budget, blah, blah, blah. And they actually left the emotions out of it for so long and then they left neurodiversity, symptoms as well out of that. So when we're talking executive functions when we're talking like time management so there's so many different things. Impulsivity is a big one that I see with ADHDers. And all of these things actually need to be brought into the conversation with money. So then we can learn, oh wait, it's not just me. I'm not thoughtless, I'm not careless, I'm not stupid. I am actually just trying to navigate the world differently than what we've been taught for the last several decades. And so when you can actually start. Feeling some of those things, you can start noticing like, oh, I'm doing that thing again, where I'm being really impulsive. Instead of going onto Amazon and just clicking two buttons to buy something to get that super quick hit of dopamine, I'm actually gonna add that thing to my wishlist in a different app on my phone. So it's still the same kind of maneuver. We're just changing the habit a little bit. And it feels better already to get that thing that I can't get outta my brain, onto a list that I can come back to later. And it's almost that same level to just be like, Ooh, it's gone. It's out of me. And now I can revisit it in a healthier way. There's different things that I see. So that's probably not a super complete answer for you, but it's so common. That, that people, just tell themselves this story. I'm so bad with money. And the reality is, no, we just have to train you a little different, relearn some things, reframe some things, and you can be very good with money. And when you're reframing the belief that you have around money, it reframes your actions that you have. When it comes to money, like if you say, I'm really bad with money you're gonna look for all the evidence and then because you see the evidence and you believe that you're going to continue acting in that way because there's no help for you, right? I'm using quotations here because that's just who you are. And then because that's what you believe, your algorithm is trained to show you all the videos that ADHDers are bad with money. And this is why you can't succeed at everything. And. All of these other things. So what you're doing is beautiful and fascinating and just so what's needed in this world. Because for me, I know we were never meant to be this busy, right? Or to pay for so many things or to have so many subscriptions or to have so many freaking bills to pay. It's not just about paying for your phone and your electric and all of this, like it's everything else that you need to survive. And there's so much in this crazy. Technological world that we have. When you work with people, is there a specific tool or support system that you find really helps them or is it different per person? It's really individualized and so some of the reason I love doing the work that I do is because I do one-on-one work, so I am launching a course. Soon, which I'm excited. And that will be speaking more generalized, but I was very cautious to do that because I think the problem has been historically that generalized information, right? And so there's ways looking on making sure that people feel heard and seen within that generalization. But speaking to the one-on-one stuff we can tailor it. So specifically, for example, I have a mom that I'm working with and her volume of transactions, to your point, is so lengthy that one of the things I actually really like to work on with people is manually tracking it. For a little while because actually this electric world that we live in, this digital world that we live in when we're constantly. Paying with a credit card, not anti credited cards at all, but it does have this disconnection between you and your money because it doesn't really feel real if you're just tapping a card and moving on with your day, right? It doesn't really feel like anything. So if we can actually manually track some of this stuff, it brings it closer to the chest and it feels a little bit different when you're looking at all of these transactions now. And going back to that mom, her theme of transaction, she's in a super busy phase of life. Summer camps, all the equipment that comes with that, all of the right toys and clothes, and mostly they're just growing like weeds. And it's nothing bad that she's doing but there's so many transactions and that because those volumes are so high. Manually tracking is simply just not going to happen for her, and so we are introducing I really like the app Monarch Money for people who are looking for an app to track things really well really cleanly. I like that one. Now, it is a pay to app. I don't have an affiliate with them or anything, but if somebody is like truly unable to manually track things, which can sound really scary and intimidating and. I promise we make, I romanticize it. I track manually all of my stuff, so it's very possible. But if you're in a season where it just, it's not gonna happen for you, that's okay. Then we pull in these different tools, right? And there's so many different levers to pull and dials to turn, and your money. again, make it a really individualized, unique experience for you to make sure it's working for your brain. For example, I have a money date with myself. Every Tuesday morning I sit, I pay myself out from my business. I track all my expenses, and I make it so cute, and I do it before the kids are even awake. I have my coffee and I like love the experience. Some people are like. It is my worst nightmare to wake up at five 30 on Tuesday before the kids are up and have a money self. And I'm like, great. Let's find a different time for that to be true in your life. So again there's these tricks and techniques that we can do, but you can apply them really uniquely to your world to make sure it fits with your brain and your lifestyle. I like that a lot. I love budgeting. I can't believe I'm saying these words out loud. I'm looking at myself. I'm like, who is this woman? But I really do. I didn't think that I ever would, but it's because. When you put your money in these places where you know you're now allowed to spend, you take all the guilt and the fear and this, shame that I've had my whole life about spending money. It's taken out of the scenario. My husband saw this trend on TikTok and he did it. We didn't post a TikTok or anything, but it was the Skittle challenge where him and my girls set out a bunch of Skittles on a plate and they were like, you get$10 for every Skittle. Before you get the poison one. When you get the poison one, it stops. And every$10 you got on a budget, you can just spend it however you want, wherever you want. And it was so fun. So I had$350 in the end. He's oh my God, I thought that I was gonna have to just feed you the poison one. But it was so freeing in a way that I haven't had for a long time.'cause most of the time I'm putting money away for clothes and for the girls, right? I can spend money on my kids so easily, but when it comes to me, I'm like, ugh. So it was so fun to have this money and say, oh, it's okay that I spend this money on myself, and I felt so great about it. And I haven't had that in a really long time. So I love budgeting, but I wasn't budgeting for myself. And this skittled challenge allowed me to, so like coming back to this mindset and the emotions behind it too is it's really fascinating. There's so much psychology about money that we forget to acknowledge. Like it was, so much of this is emotion driven. And to your point, for moms especially, we are always put on the back burner some of it is certainly societally inflicted upon us, but a lot of it is our own doing I was a stay at home mom for a long time and I had to go through a lot of emotional processing behind, like me spending my husband's money, which we have joint accounts, like it was our money, but it didn't feel that way. So again, it's so nuanced and actually one of the things I did once I felt. Pretty in control of our money. I had done a little bit more work around my thoughts and feelings behind it, so this is several months and years into my journey. I was like, I am doing a hard no spend month because truly I just need that deep dopamine reset because we are getting those quick hits of dopamine all the time. And one of the things I challenged myself to do was not only not spend money in our like. We spent, we bought groceries and paid our bills and all those things, but the extra stuff, no clothes, no toys, no books, like all this stuff I make excuses for in a lot of scenarios. I buy my kids books because they need to read, obviously. That's okay. And I buy my kids clothes because they need to look. Cute, but also drawers that are overflowing with clothes. So I did this challenge for myself and I just was like, what is it gonna feel like to say no to my kids? And they did not care at all. Like I would just be like, oh, not today, honey. We're not prioritizing the book, or we're not prioritizing that. Instead we're prioritizing and saving for a vacation in a couple months to go see your cousins in Texas. And she was like, okay, my toddler daughter did not care. I was so committed to myself in this. That we actually went to the mall together one day and she asked to ride like the little carousel ride. And I was like, we're not gonna do it. I had it in cash. It was no big deal. And still I was like, Nope, we're not doing it. And that was a really transformative month for me just to. See, oh, I'm not being a bad mom. If I say no to my kids, I'm actually being a really good mom to teach them these lessons about how we are choosing to spend our money. Because to your point, it is a choice. It is about our priority that day. And so when we're prioritizing everyone else. Not prioritizing puff debt or whatever the case may be in life. Really it puts you in this shame box and then nobody opens it and it like boils and gets really moldy and gr there, and we need to start like letting some light onto the situation. Okay, this is the deeper level. This is where that shame has come from. Yeah, I just wanted to touch on the emotions aspect of things. When I started my business, I was like, this will be easy. And then emotions came into play. And when I started managing my money, I was like, this'll be easy. And then impulsivity and emotions came into play. And when I'm helping people, organizing, this'll be easy except then emotions come into play. The emotional aspect of these different changes that we make in our life is everything. And I don't think we talk about it enough. So I'm so glad that's such a huge part. Of what you do, because we are big emotional people. A DHD comes along with a lot of really big emotions. It could be really happy on this side, but it's also like really yucky on the other side of it. But that's huge. I just recently started teaching my girls. We have like little bank accounts for them, so I'm trying to teach them about money while I'm also learning about money myself. So this has been a journey. I don't remember growing up and learning the value of money. It was just about I earned money and then I spent money. That is just, it was just very cyclical. There was no investments. And then when I was 18, I signed my life away in student loans. I remember 18 years old, I co-signed with my parents. A$15,000 loan for my first semester at college. And it wasn't until more recently, that I'm looking back and seeing how, gosh, I had no idea what the hell I was doing. That's what's so powerful about our generation is that we're doing things differently. We're not doing things the same because they've gotta learn for themselves or doing things differently because. They need to learn from us so that they can show up in the world a hundred percent more prepared than any of us ever were. At least from my perspective. Oh yeah, a hundred percent. When we talk about generational cycles, one of the biggest cycles that needs to be broken is how we're showing up with our money. The city that you talked about at the beginning. And interestingly, one thing that I. Really leaned and noticed is, especially in my life, but with clients certainly as well, is my grandparents, especially my dad's parents, they grew up in Panera, so they were so restrictive my dad would be like, oh, can I have this toy or whatever, and it was, oh no, like we are rationing, we are saving, or, keeping all of our reserves as high as we can. And they had to do that. And so no judgment there at all. But that's just the reality of it. And so then when my dad, became a dad himself. He wanted to change that cycle. And instead when my brother and I would ask for something, when we were small kids, it was like, yes, we could have these toys or whatever. And there was like this influx of like stuff,'cause they wanted to do things differently than what their parents did. And now this generation, for me as a mom, I'm like, I don't want to give my kids. Stuff like I'm actually so over the stuff, and you probably get this more than anybody being an organizer. We are so inundated with crap, and so actually what I really value spending my money on and what I very intentionally spend my money on is experiences with my kids, time with my kids. How can I buy back my time? Whether that's hiring a cleaning service to help clean my house because I just don't want to do it and I don't have the time to do it. Instead, I would rather take those hours and be outside with my kids, right? Or, spending money on vacations or, for like birthdays. Instead of buying them a whole bunch of crap, we're going up to Duluth, which is like one of our favorite cities up northern in northern Minnesota and, going on a hiking trip or whatever. And so it's really interesting to see how the generations really play out. Now, again, I'm not saying like they did anything wrong. But that's one of the things that we're evolving into. The hard part about that is in the world that we live in with I, like I said, the one click to buy options, convenience of everything. And this, comparing those to everyone around the world with the social media being a huge factor in our lives, it gets really challenging to know. Even what is it that we want for ourselves? Because my job is never ever to tell you what you should be buying. It is teaching you how should be buying the things that really move that baseline level of happiness up and move that needle. In the right direction. So again, for me, like that's vacations. But for someone else oh, I love clothes. Like That is what I, you know, really, and whatever, great. Do your thing, but then are you spending money on that? You actually don't value so much, and how can we like really drop that down And so you have more abundance for the things that actually bring you true lasting joy. Yes. Oh my gosh, yes to all of that. And when it comes to an organizing perspective I love stuff. I still love stuff, and I'm now just way more purposeful when I buy it. Right now we're going through this journey of we're selling everything in our house, so we're not taking anything with us when we move. And part of it is I just wanted. To see if I could do it. But because we've gone through this process of letting go for so long, now I'm evaluating, first of all, I don't wanna spend six to$12,000 to bring everything across the country. That's a whole nother cost that now I have all of this stuff. I don't use all of it, and now I have to pay for it to bring it across the country. But yeah, in this journey it's just been really interesting to see what matters and what doesn't. We have some pictures that we wanna bring with us. We have Harry Potter bookends that we really like. It's Harry Potter running through platform nine and three quarters. It's so cool. And then, it's just crazy how easy it is to let these things go now. But I say that because I value experiences so much, but I also value the things that, like my kids do play with like toys for me, I don't just buy toys to buy toys anymore. I'm buying toys that, first of all aren't gonna have tiny pieces that I have to find a place to put.'cause I'm just gonna curse the world if that happens. Like LOL dolls, get out of here, throw them all in the garbage. They need to reimburse us for the hell that it's created in our lives. I found these adorable little mice that you can buy and they come in like these little shoe boxes with like little blankets and like these tiny clothes, and I'm like, this is cool. This is what I'll spend money on because this is something that I would be proud to give my grandkids someday. Part of the generational thing is like they had cool things. They had really like nice quality, beautiful things, whereas now in the society that we live in, the click of a button, it's crap that we're getting. And then when it fails, instead of holding the company accountable to replacing it or making a better quality item, we're so exhausted with everything that's happening. That we just buy another one. But because we have something that's still broken and could be fine, we keep that too. And then we're just inundated with all this stuff. And now we've got a to-do list that's miles long and our chaos in our brains is represented around us in this stuff that we have. And coming back to the impulsivity of the one click, most people will buy something and then it'll get there and they'll leave it in the box I remember one client, she had a bunch of boxes like just above these cabinets and they were Christmas presents and she was like, oh, I forgot about all of these. And it's just like we forget because we're doing things in the moment and we're not in the forefront of our brain, the prefrontal cortex making real rational decisions. We're just doing things to do things'cause it feels good in the moment. Back to those emotions. So this stuff is just so fascinating to me, and the world of finances and organization, they come together so amazingly. For those of you listening, I've already invited Lindsay into my community, so we're gonna have a talk about finances in the upcoming months, hopefully. So you know when you, when did you start your podcast? How long ago now? I launched it in September of last year, so 2024. So I've had one season. I'm actually taking a break. Over the summer because I was doing my podcast one day and I was like editing it and it was taking forever. And I was like, honestly, I love, love, love the podcast. But if I'm gonna take six hours to do something, it's gonna be go out on the lake with my kids during the summer. I will happily podcast in the depths of the winter of Minnesota and not worry about it. So yes, that's kinda how the seasons will work out. I'll podcast from September. To May every year is the plan. And then take summers to, let people do their thing. Oh, that is brilliant. I love it so much. And then how long have you been a financial therapist? Yeah, so I have been a therapist. I was licensed in 2019 and now I niched into financial therapy just over two years ago. And that's been so amazing because what I was noticing in my generalist practice is there's this through line of people can't afford things or like money was the issue because they just actually needed these other tools. Like they were good at coping skills, they were good at understanding their strengths and their weaknesses and playing to that or whatever. But until they could increase their income, until they could spend intentionally, until they could invest for the future, until they could pay for services that they really truly needed they were going to continue feeling this financial stress, which seeps into every other facet of their life. We know financial stress impacts us physically, emotionally, relationally, and all these other facets because it is part of our whole body wellness. And so when I started noticing that, I was like, I feel like there has to be something I can do with money. But actually I kept telling myself this story, like I'm a therapist who's gonna listen to me about money and this and that and whatever. And then I was listening to an audio book totally unrelated to. Finances and therapy and whatever. But the narrator said the words financial therapist, and I was driving on my street. I remember this so vividly, and I paused the book. It was like four houses away. I like zoomed into my driveway parked. Running inside. And my husband was like, are you okay? What's going on? And I was like, I need to Google something this instant. And I did. And it turns out because I was a master's level social worker, that I was able to get the certification and so I did nothing but that certification for weeks. I would wake up early during nap time, like at nights, on the weekends. That's all I did. And I got the certification, started my business, and the rest is history. It's been the best decision I've ever made. That is so freaking cool. So when people come to you, are you able to dive into the relationship they've had with money their whole lives and really talk about the past as well as the future? Oh yeah. That is actually where I start with almost all of minds. There's some people that do come and feel like they have a really good handle on their money story, and they've done a little bit more of that work, and so they just need the number, which is fine. We can certainly do some of that, but actually it is the marriage between the emotions in your money story and what a lot of people don't know or understand. Is that your money habits are actually established by the time you're 10 years old. There's a study out of the University of Michigan to support this data, and they were studying kids from five to 10, noticing habits were, and whatever was being modeled in their house was actually being displayed. By these children and certainly by 10. Now if you're hearing that as a listener and you're like having heart palpitations, don't worry because habits can be changed, right? We are living proof that habits can be changed. And so there's certainly things that we can do, but like it's really important to explore what you saw growing up. And for those of us do feel like we have some more self-awareness just in general. It's very interesting to tell that. Story to talk about your money story because we've talked about it from maybe the side of like your mental health or your personality or whatever the case may be. But that money piece really hasn't been explored all that much. And so when you can take a little time to understand like, oh, my dad was always getting angry on vacations for what we'd spend. And it really ruined the vacation for me. Like how is that now impacting you going on vacations and how you spend, some people are like, I'm not spending a dime on vacation because you knew that dad would be mad. And then other people are like, oh, I'm gonna go balls to the walls on vacation because dad would've been mad so it did impact you and so we need to explore that and unpack it a little bit. So yeah, definitely a huge part of my work. Oh, that's so cool understanding your habits and the way that you've done things your whole life totally helps you understand what you want the changes to be, how you wanna change for the future. So when you're working with people do you work with all facets? If I had my money under control but I had no idea about investing, could I come to you? Or is it more just I don't know what I'm doing and how do I pay bills? Can I come to you then too? Oh, totally, yes. I run the gamut from if you are deep in the depths of debt all the way to wealth building and management. I don't advise anyone. I'm not a financial advisor, but I do educate. And so what I think people also don't really know is, from, childhood you might. Not know when your habits are established, but in the wealth building phase, a lot of people are like, oh, I have a financial dude. That's like the most common language I hear all the time is oh, I have a finance guy and I cringe a little inside.'cause I'm like, oh my God, what is he charging you? And the lack of transparency in finances is really tough on me.'cause I believe in full price transparency. I'm like, look, if you are paying for a service, no matter if it is ordering a. Starbucks latte or paying a financial advisor or anything in between, you need to know what you are paying for that service. And what I don't like is if I go on a photographer's website and they don't have their prices listed, I'm instantly like. I'm not buying from you because I want to just know. I don't want to have a touch point before I know if it's a waste of your time, if you're out of my realm of possibility or if you're maybe way under my, but I wanna know that upfront. And so I am a big advocate of price transparency and we often see with financial advisors. There is very little price transparency and unfortunately, if your financial advisor is charging you what's called an assets under management fee, and it might be 1% and somebody's oh 1%, that's nothing. But when you actually do the math over the course of your lifetime, that often ends up being closer to 28% of your overall portfolio. Wow. When I learned this, I lost my freaking mind because I had a financial advisor and I was running the math on it and doing all the calculations and everything. And this guy was like, oh, we're family. That was what he always would tell me. And I was like. Look buddy. I never charge my family what you are charging me. Ultimately, if we had kept our portfolio with our financial advisor over the life of our, work with him, he would've had over a million dollars of our money his pocket. Because of the way the fees worked out and they pitch it to you, these financial advisors pitch it to you like, oh, it's just 1%. Don't worry about it. Like you little dummy, don't worry about it. It's so belittling the way the language is, and so I really encourage, especially women, but anybody to really understand what it is that you are paying these financial advisors, how that's gonna impact your general wealth and what you can do instead. Because I do all of my own investing. I love a good index fund. I love a good target date fund. And we will do much, much better. What he would've charged us, because the part two of this then is you think I have a financial advisor. They know more than me. So their performance is gonna be much better than what I would choose.'cause I don't know, how to invest or whatever. And the reality is, if you just choose something like a basic index fund, there's so much data to support that. There is a very slim chance that a fund manager is going to outperform a simple index fund, which is basically a big group of companies all in one big basket, and you just buy the big basket so you don't even have to worry about it. They simply can't outperform it because you don't know what's gonna happen. In the stock market and might pitch themselves as these really smart financial people. But the reality is over the longevity of it, they are not gonna outperform an index fund. And so not only are you getting slammed with this big. Fee, but you're also performing worse than you would if you were just doing it on your own. And yeah, so I definitely teach and I can get on such a soapbox about this, so I'll hop off. But I definitely talk about wealth management and just how to do it on your own.'cause you totally can. Yeah. And it's scary to think about doing it on your own. This year I really wanted to get my finances under control. And one thing that we had done with finances before is we'd put a bunch of money on credit cards and then I'd get a bonus and we'd just pay it off. And then we'd be like, awesome. Look at us, how great we're doing? And then we'd put a bunch of money on credit cards and then we'd pay it off. And then I was like, there's got to be something about this where it's like this immediate gratification where I'm paying something off, but I'm like. There's gotta be some better way to handle this so that we're not losing this bonus, this amount of money that could be supportive. And then of course, starting a business is a whole nother money game. But I say that to say this year I knew that investing was gonna be more important for us. And as we're figuring out what we wanna do in the future, I just started dabbling in learning some things. So the things that you're saying now, for those of you listening, if it sounded like foreign or unfamiliar, that's okay. It's okay that you're hearing it for the first time now, because I. The next time you hear about something like that, you're gonna have a little bit more of a foundation to build upon. And with A DHD, we wanna be good at something right away, which is why oftentimes we can avoid doing the things that feel overwhelming and feel like too much for us to learn. But this is it. You've already just started learning about investing just by listening to this conversation. And so then you get to start saying maybe I'll read an article or maybe I'll go listen to Lindsay's podcast and hear a little bit more about what is an index fund? Or maybe you just Google index Fund. What is definition? It's things like that that get you curious and get, you start to learning more about money and how it can support you and. Just this conversation about women in money, is so powerful and so incredible because it's always been about the investing bros. And now it's about, investing people, it's all of us.'cause all of us have this capability. You don't have to have a certain GPA or like literally anything else to start doing it. I really appreciate this conversation today and I would so look forward to us being able to do this again. Any wise words of advice for the ADHDers listening and they're like, there's no hope for me. Oh my gosh. There's just so much for everyone, and that's why I get to do this work. If you're like, oh my God, my habits are so bad and I'm just so bad and this and that and whatever. It's you're really not, there's just a lot of education to be had because truly you were never taught this stuff very unlikely where you taught this stuff at home. You were certainly never taught it in school, and yet, the day you turn 18, it's like you gotta go figure it out. And now you're an adult and you don't know how to do money. And so we put this pressure, a little bit on ourselves, but that's more of a societal thing to be like you just gotta figure it out. And that's true for so many facets as well. But there is so much hope and it's really not hard. It's really simple when we break it down. And that's honestly my whole angle is just making this stuff simple. Like, why are we overcomplicating something that actually doesn't need to be overcomplicated? Now the emotion. And certainly bring complications into it, but from like account structures and this and that and to your point about the investing stuff, yes. Like we're just planting. Little seeds, you can always do more. You can always expand and expound and even doing money work. I've been on my own financial self care journey really since, I don't know, the late 20 teens. I've learned so much and I'm. Forever gonna be learning because this is a journey with money work. There is no destination. You are learning constantly. And yeah. So I just, if there's a message I can leave with somebody. It's there's certainly hope for you. I often hear women come to me and they're like, I'm like, the biggest mess you've ever seen. I know it. And I'm like, you are not, I promise. Like it's totally fine. Yeah just. I really encourage people to do this work'cause I really think it's really important. That's awesome. Thank you for you doing the work so that you can show up for others and support them through this journey. Thank you so much for coming on today. It was a pleasure talking to you. It was so much fun talking to you. Thank you for having me. It was such a pleasure to re-listen to that episode and get some of these incredible nuggets of remembering how possible it is for us to get our finances in order. It comes back to just starting, and it's so hard to know where to start, but part of starting is taking the tiniest step forward. Our executive function often prevents us from being able to take that step forward because we don't know where to start. So here's an example of how to start listening to this episode. That's a first step. Listening to so many other episodes, maybe jump over to Lindsay's podcast and listening then starting to take action. Maybe you go And start tracking your finances to get a better idea of where you're spending your money, things like that. Maybe you give Lindsay a call because it makes sense for you to start working with someone to coach you on where to go next. So many options. All of Lindsay's links and information will be in the show notes below. As I've mentioned in previous podcasts, I am not taking on any new coaching clients right now, and my community is gonna be closed until the upcoming fall year. If you're interested in learning a little bit more about some of the programs I will have coming up this fall, go ahead and go to organizing an ADHD brain.com/community. You can also go to organizing an ADHD brain.com/coaching depending on what you're more interested in. I'll see you all soon.