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The Working Mums Podcast
Teaching working mums mind & emotional management tools so they enjoy their kids, their job & themselves again without all the shitty mum guilt.
The Working Mums Podcast
Ep #41 - Understanding Men Series - Endurance and Empowerment Through Ant Hillman's Eyes
After dealing with the anxiety around public speaking, Ant found a transformative way forward, and you can too. Join me as we sit down with the incredible Ant Hillman, whose as a children's author, inventor, electrician & most recently Ultra X marathon runner, offers an amazing look into the male perspective on mental health and personal growth. Ant opens up about his journey through the challenges of public speaking, ADHD, and dyslexia, sharing how embracing emotions has paved the way for remarkable personal transformation.
In our conversation, we explore self-confidence and authenticity, reflecting on how vulnerability can lead to genuine happiness and fulfillment. We talk about overcoming the fear of public speaking and the emotional hurdles of depression and addiction, emphasizing how pivotal moments can redefine one's life. Ant shares compelling stories about fatherhood and sobriety, illustrating how these experiences have become catalysts for change, leading him toward a life of joy and resilience.
Our discussion takes a deeper look at the power of endurance and mental resilience, as Ant recounts his grueling ultramarathon journey and the profound lessons it taught him about setting meaningful goals and pushing beyond limits. We discuss practical strategies like positive self-talk and visualization, which not only fuel endurance but also open doors to personal growth.
To wrap up, we highlight the importance of mindset in overcoming challenges and creating a positive future, with a nod to Ant's inspiring work with the charity "Heads Up.
To connect with Ant...
IG - https://www.instagram.com/hillmanantony/
To donate to "Heads Up" - https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/antony-hillman-2?utm_term=zXavNy9N7
Ant also used supplements to support his physical body which you can find here - https://2342893.synergyworldwide.com/GB/en-GB
You can also watch this episode on YouTube with Captions - https://www.youtube.com/@TheWorkingMumsLifeCoach
If you'd like to have a chat about how I can help you further, please don't hesitate to click here & book a time with me, I'd love to meet you.
You can also follow me on IG @NickyBevan_LifeCoach
I have something a little bit different for you this week. I have been thinking a lot about the men in our world and having two boys of my own. It is one of my passions to help influence a world where men, where it's safe for men to have emotions, where it's safe for anyone actually to have an experience their emotions and I feel so incredibly fortunate to be surrounded by some really incredible, brave, strong, loving men who have a slight different view on things. And this podcast is for I dedicate it to working mums. But as a working mum, as a woman in this world, I think it can be incredibly insightful to have an understanding of life from a male perspective. So I'm going to be doing a series of interviews with some of the gorgeous men in my life and I'm going to be sharing with just drip feeding them throughout my podcast episodes.
Speaker 1:It's my intention for all of us to create a world where it is safe for any person, any human on our planet, to have and experience their emotions, because when we do that, we are so much stronger, so much more resilient than when we try and hide them away, avoid them or or or try not to feel them. So with that in mind. Here's one of the episodes, so this episode might be a little bit longer than what you're used to, my friends, because today I've got a very special guest with me. I've got an ultra ex-marathon runner, children's author, inventor and electrician, plus one of my most incredible clients. Give it up, my friends, for Ant Hillman.
Speaker 2:Hello, hello thank you, how are you?
Speaker 1:I'm good, thank you. So ants in his shed, he might get interrupted by someone coming into his house. I'm recording this into my in my kitchen and generally I get interrupted by someone in my house. So we're just going to see what happens. We're going to go with it. We haven't planned anything and we'll see what we get, see where we get to. But I've been coaching you for about four years, on and off now yeah, yeah, yeah I. I looked at it um.
Speaker 2:We actually started coaching in January 2021 yeah and if yeah, go on no, I just said it's flown by. I was thinking about that myself. Actually it was probably. I think the last two years has been really significant for me um certainly last year, for sure, um, the two, but the, the, yeah, but four years we've I've been.
Speaker 2:You know, I remember you coming into the company we worked for and giving us a presentation and that straight away struck chords with me yeah you know that that was possible and, um, and you were so confident about how you know, how we can be and how you can control, um, certain emotions and feelings and stuff like that, and it, as well as that was the first time I was ever, ever hearing anyone say that it's possible. It was also the first time I was ever, ever listening to it. The potential had been possible.
Speaker 2:So, rather than just ignoring it, ignoring the you know the fact, so it's, yeah, it was quite inspiring that day and then I think we we ended up setting some meetings up after that yeah and uh, yeah, the first two years was was a struggle for me, not not because of you, obviously, it was just I just wasn't, I just wasn't taking it seriously. Um, I had other things um going on, if you know, I mean and and stuff like that, but I was persevering anyway because I was definitely trying to overcome my former self, shall we say at that point and I had no clue.
Speaker 2:no clue at all. But apart from what I already knew, if you know what I mean I had no clue about how I act and how I turned up as myself. You know that basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if I remember correctly, one of the first things that we spoke about was your nervousness of presenting yeah, yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. Um, oh, yeah, it was I. I would struggle. Not only would I struggle, I mean, a part of my job is to present things and present things, um, you know, in in a way, in a communication format where not only am I saying something, but the people talking to understand what you're saying, which is a huge, which is a huge disconnect if you, if you, if you don't understand that, you know it's not, the words itself are meaningless until you have experience behind the words to be able to understand what they mean. Um, yeah and yeah, exactly, and I would just go in there, um to these, I would, I'd be nervous for weeks, um, leading up to any of my presentations or any of my uh, toolbox talks we used to have to do all the time.
Speaker 2:That got easier because it was more friend colleagues, but when I had to do it in front of, um, you know, hundreds of people, um, or even on teams in front of hundreds of people, that really shook me up and the, the overthinking that I would do, it was weeks up to it and it was, you know, right up to the point. You talk and then, and sometimes I just, I just couldn't cope, do you know? I mean, it really got, it really got me. I couldn't. I could barely speak, and it's one of the things that you've done since three. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:so you know how to speak, but you just, I just couldn't just lost all, all the will and I just what, I just could not understand why it was. I was doing it because I I knew what I had to say, I knew the words I had to say, I believed in the words I had to say. I just couldn't say it and I just that really was a at that point in my life puzzling. Yeah, um, to understand why that is obviously, um, nowadays it's uh, I can, I, I can sit here with confidence and and explain it a little bit more of why I was and I understand it fully and stuff like that. But, um, but yeah, it was, that was.
Speaker 2:That was the first, uh, definitely the first first thing that I overcome yeah and it was, and it was definitely a changing moment in my life as well, because it was such a big thing for me. It really was a big thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brilliant. And so over the years we've and I was thinking what has happened in the time that we've been coaching and you've overcome your drink, you've stopped drinking, you've become a dad for a second time, you've got your adhd diagnosis and then, most recently and most significantly, obviously, the ultra x marathon, which we're going to talk about in a second which if you don't know anything about and I didn't because I'm good at running a bath and that is it. It's 136 miles over five days in the Nevada desert. What the fuck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's not flat either. So you're going over mountains, so it's 6,500 meters of elevation. You're going up and down. Yeah, it is definitely brutal.
Speaker 1:Gosh. So over the course of our conversation this evening, we are gonna dive into the drinking, we're gonna dive into how it's changed your relationships becoming, how you've become comfortable with who you are now, which I just think is the most beautiful, incredible thing thing ever and we will obviously talk about the marathon. And before I forget, actually, if you send me some links to Heads Up, which is the charity that you're raising money for, isn't it, I will put that into the show notes, although we're recording this in November 2024. So if someone this messes with my mind, but if someone's listening to this, like 2025, 2026 and beyond, the link may not work, but you know yeah, the link to the charity will.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, that's it so, so let's, where do you? What do you think has been your most significant change?
Speaker 2:I put, the most significant is certainly being confident. Um, that that brings it. That sort of that ends up answering a lot of questions and and it also helps in a lot of other areas as well. So I was so not not confident, I was the opposite of it. Do I mean? Uh, I'm regular, but I hid it well? Um, do I mean I was?
Speaker 2:I was able to, to stay in the background, to isolate myself, to not really get involved in conversations, uh, unless I knew the people really well, um, to be able to voice my opinion, even if I thought I was right I would, I would shy away from it. So the confidence I have being myself now is, within the last two years this is so even when, even even when I done my first hurdle of being able to do public speaking and not actually freaking out every single time. That was a massive step for me and, to be fair, actually that was the point where I thought, actually this does work. Um, until that point I was just going with the flow to try to find anything that could help and just do whatever I was, you know, whatever is needed, and then I thought, actually this is really powerful to be able to. It was nothing else but that to be able to control my emotions.
Speaker 2:But the confidence thing for me was, was a big issue. You know, going to a room of people and you always feel that you're, you know you're not as good as everyone else in there and and or you, you, what you've got to say, is not as important, and stuff like that. Now I haven't got any arrogance in me at all, um, but I do. Now I'm able to be myself all the time and walking around as myself without any problem with it at all, knowing that I am me and there's. It's joyful, it is and and this is consistent as well, like I said, it's definitely consistent, been consistent over the last year, and I've never, ever, ever had that before. Well, it could been consistently me and being me and happy to be me as well. So I think that's the biggest change and that, of course, that that that is part of the confidence thing yeah, and what did you?
Speaker 1:are you able to break down or or describe to us what you actually did to overcome that? I mean, I know we we coach together and it's mind and emotional management but, what is your interpretation of that?
Speaker 2:look, I think I, I believe for me again and and I I researched the hell out of loads of stuff and um, but I think it's a combination of things, um, I always revert it back to like the symbic circle, which what one thing does affects the next. You know what I mean and I was always trying to focus really hard on just one thing all the time. It must be my diet and just focus on that. It must be the fact I would drink alcohol. It must be that, it must be you know something else, and I would just focus on one thing, an actual fact, and I'd put a lot of effort into that one thing and revert back to the way I was.
Speaker 2:Um, and then I really, really wanted to understand myself and I wanted to understand how I was. So I would research and even though 99% of the stuff that I was researching I didn't agree with, it still gave me balance to what I actually thought and I. And then, over that period of time, when I was watching podcasts or um, you know, youtube or anything like that, or just in interesting facts on running or or whatever it was that I was interested at that time, you start building up almost like an education of what everyone else?
Speaker 2:thinks. But then you can balance that against actually what works for you and you take the bits that work for you. And when I started doing that I thought it's not just one thing here for me. You know it might be for others, but for me there's multiple things here. There's one thing I think I would have cracked this a bit earlier. There's, you know, the mind, but I know that number one for me, with a healthy mind, which you know, in the way that I now think about things so differently, or able to allow myself time to think about things so differently, um is, is, is a game changer. But that alone I don't know, but that alone I'm not sure whether been would have been good enough. But then I look at the like, the way the gut health and stuff like that, and I know there's a lot of research on. You mentioned the ADHD thing earlier and I was diagnosed quite late in life. But I always knew there was an overactive part of me that I've hidden for so many years.
Speaker 1:And I was ashamed of it.
Speaker 2:I was also dyslexic at school, so I was diagnosed with dyslexia at school. So I had I, you know, I I was diagnosed with dyslexia but not not with the adhd. Um, and again, there's there's loads and loads of research that that can be connected in some people and 100 for me it is, and I get that right and I don't just get it because someone's told me um, in actual fact, if someone didn't go through the, you know the science behind it or the logic behind it, I might not have ever known. However, now I truly know, and those things again, and I think it's, I think you put it down to like knowing yourself. If you know what I mean, know thyself. Or they say, don't they? But, um, if you're living a life, what you've, if I mean I, going back to me, I was always living a life that I was um, I mean you were what, sorry I was like what I was, either shown or okay or the or the what is seen?
Speaker 2:So if my friends were doing a certain thing. I've got to do a certain thing, and I'm not saying that's wrong, it just wasn't me. But that's what else you do, and I've got no doubt that age is a factor of this as well. As you grow older, um, you do understand you well, you, it brings some sort of level of wisdom or, um, foundation of knowledge about experience. Um, and, yeah, it just it's. It's those sort of things really, that that really um, forget the word now but it really cements your, your level of understanding about who you are and what your values are.
Speaker 2:And when I follow those values which I have done now consistently for a year, there's so many different occasions. It it brings joy to yourself as well, where you, where you no longer need to just think you've got to be someone else to fit in or anything like that. Well, it's not the fact I don't care, it's the fact that I don't need to. It's all individuals and we should, we should all be if we can. Again, I don't, I can't talk for everyone else because it I I sort of feel like I have to go through a bit of a journey to understand it, but I'm sure you don't need to. I don't know, because I've not been able to go straight from where I was to where I am now.
Speaker 2:I feel like I've had to be broken a little bit. I understand the balance of the pain, or the feelings of pain or the you know and the thoughts you go through, to really then educate myself in in actually I'm, I'm, I'm good with that, I'm good with the stuff that I've done in my life. I'm I'm okay with my accent.
Speaker 1:I'm okay with it. I'm good with it.
Speaker 2:I'm okay with. I mean, I've told you other things as well that I'm okay with which is for this podcast, but I'm okay with it, I'm good with it. I'm okay with I mean I've told you other things as well that I'm okay with which, yeah, for this podcast, but I'm, you know I'm it's just not a you know I'm, I'm, I'm a respectful person. I've, I would never, ever want to hurt anyone else, but likewise, I just I'm getting, just getting up every day, knowing out beds, knowing that you are, you completely, and you have got the day in front of you to fulfill in whatever way you want, not not with selfish intent, necessarily, but just just to go with it, do you mean, and see what's out there, go with the flow and another piece of this, which goes back to the confidence thing, is, you know, I would always shy away from stuff, stuff that I didn't understand, um, or stuff that looked weird.
Speaker 2:And now I gravitate towards it because if it's weird, I don't understand it, and if I don't understand it I want to know, understand it, because when I understand that, I can have balance against what I know now, which is limited but it's enough for me to fulfill joy in my life. And what they're doing and they're, um, the weirdness, what I see and think, oh, that doesn't you know, it's only weird because I don't understand it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Can you give us some examples of what, of what that might be like or what you what you mean by what?
Speaker 1:I see as weird well you so I know we've talked about a couple of things, like even just the, the not particularly minor, but like the vegas wedding. Whereas in the past you may not have walked into that, yeah, you know just and and you said as well I'll let you say this in your words in a second but the walk that you did in preparation for the marathon. You would never have done that on your own. So, yeah, tell us a bit about what it was like before not going into those things and what it's like now going into those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so one example you used there was the when, when I was doing part of the reason of going over to the nevada, one was also a friend was getting married out there and he was getting married in the elvish chapel um, the bliss chapel, I think it was called something like that um, and that would always, you know, that sort of thing would be like cringy for me, like I just couldn't, I wouldn't, I'll be like really no, it's not for me. Do you know what I mean? And I, I would just put up all these barriers and instantly barriers, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't even think of going with that flow. Do you know what I mean? I just wouldn't have done it. Um, but now you know I go in.
Speaker 2:There was one of the most amazing things ever. To be honest. You to see the joy of their faces and everyone in the room, including me, was just smiling going. This is, this is brilliant, this is fantastic, because it is what they wanted. It's not what I wanted them to do, or where I wanted them to go, or what I wanted them to eat is what they wanted to do, and you can see that in their faces. I mean, and that was enough for me just to sit there and go.
Speaker 2:God, I've had it wrong for so many years being. I was always selfishly looking through my eyes and stuff like that, and I'm sure it's gone the other way as well, where people would look at me selfishly through their eyes. But that's the bit that I feel is a is a massive thing for me. Where I can, you can, you can accept people for who they are and I can accept myself for who I am, and and that's all you need to do really, because everything else, if people don't, then it's, it's not. That's all you need to do really, because everything else, if people don't, then it is, it's not.
Speaker 1:That's not on me yeah, and I think it has to start with accepting us, like it has to start with accepting you and knowing that as humans, we are perfectly imperfect and you know we we're not going to be the same as everybody else, and our uniquenesses and our differences, and when we accept ourselves, we are then available to accept other people yeah yeah, exactly there's um.
Speaker 2:What a boring world it would be if all the same do. I mean and um. But even I think, where we, I think where I've been confused in the past, is because we're because some of us are alike, or there's some some elements of what we like or elements of what we do that are similar, we instantly think we're the same, um, but actually that's still far from the truth, in my opinion. Now it's um, we're completely individual, completely ourselves, completely who we are. So, even if it rhymes slightly with your friend or your family member or whatever it, you're still completely individual, and that's the bit that I am happy to um, to explore more. I mean, I've definitely not cracked it in any way, shape or form. I just I've just got this opportunity now to be able to think differently, give myself time to think, understand things so much better and not have the fog over my head constantly. I've put myself down and feeling anxious or shy or, you know, haven't got the competence to talk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so is it. I'm curious is it that the anxiousness has gone, or is it that you're just able to not let it stop you anymore?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, it's still there, yeah, but it's just not there in the levels instead. So I would say, now it's, it's, it's there. However, even now talking to you, it's there. However, instead of me constantly thinking in my head oh my God, I feel really anxious. Oh my God, what are you going to think of me, because I'm really nervous. Oh, is my voice, are you going to not like my family voice? Are you going to? What are you?
Speaker 2:Oh, no, this is really bad and that's all my head would do constant, constantly, and then I'd get really like insecure and you know, and not just that sort of stuff, but all sorts, it would do a hundred different meanings. And now I just accept it, I like, I'm hearing it and I'm going. It's there in my head, I'm okay with it because this is a, this is the avatar that I'm in and all that stuff. But my mind and this is really one of the most important things actually for me is, you know, I have mentioned to you before my dad died of dementia. So, understanding the mind for me, even though I've got no, you know, I researched it to hell, but I generally am only going from what I I believe on this, but the mind is just the most precious thing ever, because it's it controls everything. It controls all our emotions, all our feelings, all of our. You know, everything that we're um able to control is that, and it's completely free, and it's ours, it's given to us free, and it so you
Speaker 2:know, and I don't regret anything. But so many years I was wasting um just blinkered in other people's opinions and other people's lives and other people's ways of doing things and other people's religions, or stories and and or jokes, and and that was what I thought was funny because they said it. So it must be funny and and and then, all of a sudden, you can unlock all that and be yourself and find yourself and understand what actually you want, or, in my instance, what you know. That's what I've done and it's very new to me. This is so. It's only the last, the two I would say two years I've been. I've had the opportunity to really focus on it. The last year has been game-changing for me. Yeah, with with it, we're being able to use my mind in a, in a more percentage um factor could do before um, because I was just blinkered constantly, just just not even giving myself a second to think, outside of what yeah, and I think that I'm so pleased you said that.
Speaker 1:So there are two things. There's something that you keep repeating and I'm like that is gold is that you give yourself time, so it's. And then the other thing is those, those, that voice is still there, Because I think a lot of people think, oh, if I learn to manage my mind and manage my emotions, that voice is going to disappear and I'm never going to feel negative. And that's not the case. But what happens is you, you just learn to ignore. It's like a radio on in the background.
Speaker 1:It's just a noise and your emotions don't need to drive your actions. And giving yourself that little bit of time to kind of have that consciousness, it's just huge yeah, yeah, exactly that I.
Speaker 2:I tend to. I actually a little bit like running now actually. Um, I used to hate the hills, so I went towards the hills now yeah it's the same as the anxiousness. I used to hate that anxiousness and now I'm waiting for it to come because I'm ready to greet it yeah and um in a, in a.
Speaker 2:You know, don't get me wrong, i'm'm not like sat there going, but it's it. But the more, but the more I do, the more so. What sort of happens when? When I give myself a chance to think and give myself a choice of how I want to feel, and give myself the time to be able to talk in front of people, lots of people, and not get absolutely overwhelmed and and just only think about that is, um, you know, it is the fact that you can. You can, you can control that to a degree. But also the best way that I find of dealing with it was just acceptance of it and understanding that it is. It is there and it is coming and you are going to.
Speaker 2:I am going to get nervous, um, but likewise when I, when I mentioned balance with the running stuff and you, you've got as strong a uh a part over here, that is you that wants to turn up, um and say you know, you, you don't, you can't, you can never predict the future. That's the thing. And um, it's impossible. Um, so you just need to be. If you be yourself, people love you for that. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:And because you're you and I, I, I used to recognize people that were their selves, um, and I knew that I wasn't so I would live a life of of, of fitting in and being. If I was in a group of friends or whatever they were acting a certain way, I'd act like them. Do you know what I mean? And but there are certain friends I have got now, today, that have always been their selves. Naturally, they don't force it, they are just them, and I used to really respect that from them, because I, they, they seem so different to me, because they, they had that natural ability to do it well, I've had to work, work at that, but but the more you do it, the more I do it, um, and the more that I think, um, give myself time to think, I give myself time to understand that I might be getting anxious, or understand that always four o'clock I want to go for a beer or whatever it may have been to, to stand back and go.
Speaker 2:Actually, that that conflicts with what I want to do tomorrow yeah, that conflicts with what I want to do this and then and then that, and the more I've done that, the more it just become the normal, rather than actually standing there and going right. I've got a question myself on this. This has come up, so I need to then challenge myself. Now it just, it doesn't happen to me with me, no more. It's it, it naturally happens, and it's only after the event I go.
Speaker 2:That was good we've, we've, we didn't even, we didn't even challenge ourselves on that one. I mean, and nor you know, the past me, the four year, four year ago me would have been gone for this afternoon, walk on a sunday and gone straight in that pub whereas actually we've just, we've just walk straight by it and not even worried about it, because I'm not again.
Speaker 2:I've never said um for me. I've never said that I would, I, I, I believe in, in, I, can, you, I don't. I didn't need to give up anything. I don't need to give up anything. All I needed to do was understand what I wanted and really believe that, to be able to make a better decision on life choices, for example, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So tell us more then about what you were like with your drinking. So you just mentioned it a couple of times then, because you don't. When was the last time you had alcohol? Um, it was uh at the eagles in vegas okay, so you had some at the eagles, but before that um, about a month before, some of that okay, so tell us what you were like before you did your work around drinking alcohol. What? What was your general?
Speaker 2:so when I was drinking, so when I was drinking regular, oh it, it, it was, um, it was a part of me it was.
Speaker 2:It was something that I I didn't from from a very young age again. I was fitting in with everyone else. I guess at that stage it was a place that you'd go to get work, You'd go after work, You'd meet people, You'd meet social people, like-minded people. At that stage you know what I mean and you fitted in in that sort of place. You could tell the same story every single night and no one would remember it from the night before.
Speaker 2:So quite good, but um, but it was relentless, because you, it's habit forming and I I can, I can hand on heart, say I was never. My body was never in it. You know, it didn't crave it. In a way, it was my mind just gravitated towards it because it was what I knew to be fun. So I was associating drinking, social, being out of a work environment with either colleagues or friends, and it was fun.
Speaker 2:And then, day after day after day after day, year after year after year after year, and then I went through some phases where I'd meet a girlfriend or a partner or whatever, and you just stop, you just wouldn't do it anymore because that wasn't their thing. But then you gravitate towards it again and stuff like that, and it was just always sort of there. But what I can like, what the the horrible thing about what I can remember of that is, is I had a constant fog over my head. I was always. I was always um, uh, forcing myself to get energy, um, sometimes I would, um, but most, most of the time, I wouldn't. Um, uh, and back on it.
Speaker 2:It was quite sad really, because it was just, you feel, duped into that way of life, but again, that was what I'd done. That was, that was what I'd done. You know it's, yeah, the the time that you waste with this precious life, if you know what I mean and sat in a pub drinking and, and I, I, I generally felt that that was a good way of life. Um, now I'm not. I would I'm not saying going out with my mates and having a drink, whatever isn't fun, but it was just it. It'd become a habit. It was a habit more than an addiction, I would say, albeit that if I was to say any word at all, that would describe my, um, the way I am, I have got this addictive personality and that's the only word I can say. But I generally believe I can control that addictive personality if I don't.
Speaker 1:I hate that word because it's.
Speaker 2:It's not fair on me, but it is a word that you would get that if I the way I was um, I would. I would have it in my head that if I had one, I'd have to sit there until either I'd run out or the pub shut, and that was my mindset back then. Do you know what I mean? There was no way you watch these.
Speaker 2:You know these shows on TV and they go in for dinner and have one drink and go back home or whatever. What's the point in having one? Do you know what I mean? I'd been there all day after work. We'd been there all day, all you know. After work. We've been there all night and, um, you weren't leaving until they kicked you out, and this was day in, day out. So, um, yeah, but my mindset at that point was that that was that, that was a good, that was a good time.
Speaker 1:So what changed?
Speaker 2:Having children. Okay, having children, certainly done that. One thing that I know in a previous relationship I was drinking quite a bit and you know she quite clearly recognised that and was trying to help me by telling me this and you know, the blockers just go up and you know, you just straight away think that people are having a go at you. And because you don't see, I'm saying you, I didn't see anything wrong with it. I did not see that I was doing anything wrong and I was thinking all I had in my head is you think I'm bad? You should see the people down the pub that stay out an hour longer than me. You know they're the bad ones, not me. I've got, I've got this covered. I go, I go. You know I might get kicked out first, but but they stay in there drinking longer. Um, and so in my head, I was doing nothing wrong. And then, when someone's trying to help you you, I was in the I was in the position where I just wasn't prepared to listen.
Speaker 2:Um, and that, and that caused, caused friction, caused an issue with our relationship. But what I would say is you know, although the person I'm talking about, we're no longer together, you know we'll love each other forever. Do you know what I mean? And I remember those sort of things. I remember her trying to help me and stuff like that. I remember her having patience and stuff like that. Um, but just unless you, unless, until I really understood myself, I wasn't interested in, in listening to, to other people's advice. Even no offense, nikki, the first two years we were together, apart from apart from um, you know when we were, when we were conquering the, the speech thing, but you, just, you just feel like every, everyone's trying to tell you off yeah, I'm going to try to tell you you're negative.
Speaker 2:Surely anyone else has made a mistake. I'm going to try and tell you you're negative. Surely anyone else has made a mistake. But yeah, it's not a nice place to be in when your habit-forming role is you enjoy. You can't wait to go and have a social drink with someone else rather than just social with someone else.
Speaker 1:And I can remember as well, it wasn't just social. We did a lot of work around you, coming home at like four or five o'clock and there was there was no one at home, so oh, I can have a drink no one's gonna know yeah, yeah, that was a.
Speaker 2:Again, that was a good topic for me because, um it, it really did make me. Eventually, and certainly now looking back on it, I've got more. I'm able to see it fully, if you know what I mean, whereas at the time it was a case of trying, because alcohol is not the problem. Alcohol was never the problem. Alcohol is cool. It makes you. If you have a drink, it's quite confirmed.
Speaker 2:It was me that was the problem, and I was the one that was going home and and giving myself this overwhelming feeling of going, I'm on my own. What am I going to do? I know that's going to have a drink and no one's about, no one's going to know, don't matter, matter, it's good to do it and I quite enjoyed it, to be honest. And then I'd have a few drinks, a couple of drinks. I'd have 10 drinks or whatever. It was a bottle of wine, maybe two and wake up the next day and just get on with it. But the problem was me, not the alcohol. That's done nothing wrong. My mind was just telling me that that was what I enjoy and I wasn't able to stop and think and give myself a choice.
Speaker 1:Or if I was able.
Speaker 2:The part of me that wanted to just have a drink was more powerful at that point. The part of me that wanted to just have a drink was more powerful at that point. And um, and, and, and now when, when I come back home from work, I can't wait to. I, literally because I always think um to myself. I know that feeling still, because the feeling's still there. So when I, when I come back, it's still. You still get that feeling, but it but it's nowhere near as intense and you just pass it a little bit. You know what I mean. You sort of go in and go, whatever.
Speaker 2:I've heard you before yeah that's fine, and I, sometimes I'll go, sometimes I literally drive to the post office where they sell loads of drink and I'll just pick up some beer or wine or whatever, because look at it, look at the label, and then put it back, go have some of that. Do you know what I mean? Only only to play in with myself. I mean, but then, thanks, boy, but then and then, and then I'll come, but then I'll come back here and and then the next day. So always, every time I go to sleep, I sleep well, wake up in the morning and I want to get out of bed and enjoy myself. That feeling is you. You can't be it. Do you mean?
Speaker 1:because I, because I know the balance of the other feeling yeah being a drunk and and waking up with the fog and waking up with the fog every day.
Speaker 2:And that doesn't go away.
Speaker 1:It stays yeah, so what? How would you describe your relationship with alcohol now?
Speaker 2:I, I wouldn't, I, I, I think it's. I would say that I still I probably still need work to do um with, with, with it not being still present in my life. However, however, this is the good bit. Well, I think there, it doesn't own me anymore. Yeah, so it no longer. It no longer tells me, it no longer has the power or even though I just said it's not the alcohol, but I no longer gravitate towards alcohol to be able to switch off from something I don't need to. I don't need to do that. I find something better than that, and that something better is much more important. So, when I weigh up the odds between the balance between getting drunk for an hour or two, um, and feeling that fog constantly, and the better thing that I found and multiple better things that I find actually than that, that's much more important to me yeah, so so I would say it, my, my, with that, the it no, yeah it.
Speaker 2:I no longer, um, I no longer need to gravitate towards alcohol. However, I do still think that I can have it as part of my life and I I stand by that and I think I'm sure anyone could, because it's if, if you want to, that is some. So I'm imagining, because you, you hear people that have been in Belmont I was drinking from, you know, probably 16, but obviously illegal age in um, 70, um, right the way to two years ago yeah heavy and it got heavier and heavier and heavier and heavier.
Speaker 2:So I had probably a few month gap, a certain relationship or whatever, um, but other than that it was, it was, it was all, it was a part of me, it was what it felt a part of me and because of because of that, you always feel that you're, you're, um, you know it's a part of your life, but it's only, it's only when you've like, when I find something better that isn't though, that's much better, that's much, regardless of the healthy side of it, you just, you just feel great because you're not doing it yeah feeling great for a lot longer because you're not doing it.
Speaker 2:But I generally believe that you can have that balance with still having a glass of wine or whatever you want to do. Do what I mean, or a wedding night out or you know, or a social event if you want to. Obviously, you know some some people may not choose not to, but I know I can do it. I know I can have that one night. I know I can have that weekend away with my mates if I want to, and and and I can. I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, sorry no, I was just that reminded me of Glastonbury, because do you remember we were talking about Glastonbury I don't know if it was this year or last year and you were, or maybe even have been, in the year before and you said I can't imagine going to. Glastonbury and not being drunk. And yet this year you did Glastonbury yeah did you have a little bit, but it wasn't a lot, though no, you didn't have any no, and what was Glastonbury like? Sober it was amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was amazing. I remember dancing like a fairy, just thinking this is brilliant. I've never heard music like it. Um, the again, this there's and there's loads of other actual um.
Speaker 2:I've got loads of other experiences like that yeah, where I've gone out and not you know where the past me would go out and drink and stuff like that, and I was drinking to hide away from myself. Do I mean so again that this is a knock-on effect from the confidence thing? So now my confidence is there, I don't need to hide away from it, and that's another powerful thing for me, so I no longer need to drink.
Speaker 2:I'm actually quite happy being myself and talking to people yeah and and uh, you know, and not feeling anxious about what I'd done the night before and, if not, and but? Glastonbury is a classic example where you, you, I always had this feeling that that you just have to go there and just get drunk, um, be a fool and listen to music, you know, roll it back in the mud. Whatever it is you want to do, or I done, um, and we're so lucky being so close to it as well that you know if it ever gets out of hand, you just come out yeah, so um.
Speaker 2:So, whatever sort of trouble you get into, you just come out, um, but going down there, actually not even. It wasn't even a, it doesn't. It's not even a um a thing do I mean no longer, because it's not like, oh, I'm not drinking, I'm not putting barriers up on me, I'm not going like I'm not drinking, and I'm sat there the whole weekend going, I want to drink, I want to drink. Just, it's not like that, it's it's. You're just not bothered by it.
Speaker 2:Because I took my, I took my boy down. He was 11 and it's not the place. Well, in my opinion it's a day place for kids and then, and I get them out, um, that's just my opinion, but you know it is for everyone these days. You going down with him and physically seeing the same stuff that I felt when I first went there. It was so much more important than me going down and ignoring all that and just doing the same stuff that we've ever done by drinking and and stuff like that. It was just magical.
Speaker 2:Coldplay were playing this year and I I was crying under my sunglasses, even though it's dark, because I could see my boy, just the enjoyment coming out of him dancing away to Coldplay, um, and if not, I mean I don't, I don't dislike him or or you know, but it was just so magical for me watching that and not being just there like face, like looking in the air, like wandering around going where's my next drink coming from, you know? Um. So yeah, glastonbury was a big one and probably it probably was the best year actually yeah, that's so good, isn't it?
Speaker 1:so you said there about your 11 year old. The other thing that we coached on was when you became a dad for the second time yeah so how, and and? And I agreed with you. Playing in front of a baby is not a lot of fun, in my opinion either, but what so? How has you learning how to manage your mind and your emotions affected your relationships in those ways?
Speaker 2:yeah. So when I mean when, when my, my youngest boy was first born it was you know I'd forgot how difficult it can be for one. I thought it was easy, but then maybe it's because I wasn't doing as much as I should have been at that point, you were at the pub.
Speaker 2:I was at the pub, this is, but no, it really did. Yeah, so what you know? The? The late nights, sleepless nights, the fact that you're slightly older than you were, the first time, um, do I mean, and all that sort of stuff, or it affected me. And um, seeing, seeing this beautiful, you know boy in front of you that you absolutely um felt something for at that point is, but it's just a baby and you don't know how to handle it. I've gotten that there's no natural, there was nothing, there was no natural ability that was coming out of me to go this is what you need to do, that's what you need to do. And then seeing the mum do everything, perfectly, you know, you just feel like, what can you do? Do you know what I mean? So it affected me. And then, when the other thing, at this period of time, um, he's now almost five, so is he?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, well, he's, he's still four, but he's yeah so yeah, oh well of course, because this was back when we started coaching. I can remember coaching and him being born. Yeah, so we would be. Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 2:And again, I knew this. I knew this through people telling me. I knew this, because this is what they just want your time. You know what I mean. They don't want these toys or anything like that. They just want to be with you. And I knew that, but I still couldn't pick myself off the sofa. As much as I knew I knew that, but I still couldn't pick myself off the sofa as much as I knew I loved him. I knew that that was there, but it just wasn't everything else. My mind, the fog was blocking everything else out. Do you know what I mean? So it was just everything was watered down and I just didn't get. I just couldn't. I just couldn't get off the sofa to do it.
Speaker 2:And if I did do it, I felt like I was forced to do it as well. It was like a forced thing that, oh why? Why are you all sat on the phone? Why are you all sat on your phone? Why, you know, why don't you get up and play with him? Why don't you? And and absolutely, why didn't I? But couldn't I like? I know it sounds really bad, but I wanted to. Every part of me said do it, get up, just do it. Why can't you? And I just just come in, I just didn't know it. There was just nothing in me to to want to do it and and that. And it's really hard me saying that right, because, as I'm saying, I'm thinking this is why the mind is so important, because I just wasn't strong enough with the mind at that point. I just didn't allow myself to understand me and aspects and who I was.
Speaker 2:I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD at that point either. I was in and out of depression Again. I was struggling with at that point I was battling with the the side of not trying to drink, um, you know, doing quite well, but I was. It was a battle rather than a just a natural thing. Um, and so all this was, all those problems would go. It was just that's the only thing that I was thinking of. Um, albeit, you would sort of try to get get all that out of the way and then go maybe you've got this beautiful boy, let's go up and get him, yeah. But all this is going on. So they're sort of saying first, then you do what I mean and that that took priority.
Speaker 2:Um, at that time, and then, as the symbiotic circle, I like to say you know the bits that I started putting in place the mind management side of it with yourself, the stuff that I'd done on my own outside of you know what we talked about. To try to understand myself. I took blood tests and and um tried to work out if I was deficient or low in certain vitamins and stuff like that, which I was um, because the spectrum is so big on on what they call normal Um, so I was quite low on that, so that helped as well, and all these little things I was recognising more. If I didn't exercise for three days that was one thing, it was a three-day rule for me If I didn't go out and do anything because I'm on the laptop most of the day if I didn't go out and exercise for three days, I felt it. I felt the fourth day I really felt tired down Do you know what I mean? And the fog was even increased to what it normally was. It was always there, but it was even increased.
Speaker 2:But these other things I was doing started lifting it, you know. Then I started sleeping better. I always felt like I was a good sleeper, but um, but I clearly wasn't, because you know the my watch told me, but um, um and then and when, when that and then a change happened for me and I I won't be jumping a year here or so, I don't know, but it when you're. When I had the energy and when the fog was a low end of the spectrum rather than the high end of the spectrum and you were confident, you had the confidence in yourself and stuff, or I had the confidence in myself. I then knew what I had to do, but it wasn't a case of I have to do it, I wanted to do it. Do you know what I mean? So I literally seen this same, you know a year later maybe same boy playing on the floor.
Speaker 2:I don't need to be told to go do this. I want to go and spend time with that boy and I think also this may be an added factor that he'd got older as well, so he's more interactive with me. He's looking at me in a different way than a baby would have. Effectively, he can recognize you and recognize your features and stuff like that, and that was a change me, for me, in that respect as well. But I can see how, when they say people can go through like postnatal depression and stuff like that, you know it, it it's a real thing, do I mean depression and it's a real? It's a real thing when you allow it to consume you and you don't have an opportunity to sort of recognize. I mean, I'm sure I mean I recognized I was dying, but I didn't recognize that there was a chance to get out of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's the thing people. People don't realize they have a choice, do they? They think how they are is how they're going to stay forever, and and I that's one of the things I wish people just could realize that, wherever you are, you do actually have the ability to change, purely because you have a human brain. This has got nothing to do with circumstances or or the environment that you're in. It's got everything to do with the fact that you have a human brain that can change if you want to change it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, and I think you're just a perfect example of that. So what are you like with your son now then?
Speaker 2:You know I see him. I see him regular. But when I say regular, you know it's it's's not not enough still for me, but it is regular, you know it's it's when. But when I do get to see him, should I say we have? Just I, just all I want to do is sit with him, play with him, do what he wants, follow him. He follows me. Do you know what I mean? And, and classically, this is is, this is the thing, and I, I know, I know, not when I walk through the door, um, that I may not have seen him for a week or two, and I walk through the door, he drops everything.
Speaker 2:Oh, when he sees me and just runs to me and that that is like do you know what I mean? That keeps me going for another couple weeks that yeah that moment.
Speaker 2:Um, he's not quite, even though he's four, or um, almost, you know, no, he is, uh, sorry, he's. Um, he's not, he's not speaking yet, so he's still not fully talking, he's not pronouncing words fully, but you know he, you know you, you know he's got it. I mean, he's numbers, you say a number on a whiteboard, up to anything, and you can point to it and circle it. Um, you can, you can, you can actually physically see him read in the book and and you know, pronouncing the words, but he can't quite get the word out. But you, you know he's, he's there with it. And it's just beautiful moments like that that I, I, I, I can focus. I don't my mind's not over there, my mind's not over there, my mind's not on the fog of emotions that I'm giving myself, my mind's just sat next to him going this is beautiful, this. Why would I, why would it, why would I want to be anywhere else? Um other than?
Speaker 1:having my 11-year-old next to me as well, do you know what I mean, but yeah, it is this, this is the most you know.
Speaker 2:This is that, that time, that the contented time that I could sit there and just hear him struggling to read, but, yeah, or me reading to him, um, you know, and that time that we have together when I get, when, when I'm playing, when we're playing on the on the floor and stuff like that, it's beautiful, it's, and and I'm actually, rather than me thinking I've got to go and do this, I've got to do that. I'm there. Do you what I mean?
Speaker 1:yeah, and that with you now and I love it, yeah that's so good, and I think that is the biggest gift not only can you give yourself, but also your children, because you are so fully present in that moment and that's all they want yeah that's all they want yeah so let's talk about the marathon pretty significant year and moment for you.
Speaker 2:So 136 miles seven actually, but I wouldn't.
Speaker 1:I don't want to how many is it 137? 137 miles 137 that mile counts over five days across the desert and hills and mountains, and you'd never done it before no, the most I've ever run was um without stopping.
Speaker 2:Um was uh 16 miles and I was done after that. And also I don't know if you know the westman that way, and it's from uh, western super mayor to wells, yeah, and it's all tracks and trails. Well, it was um three times the. The third day, should I say, was um that, plus another 10 miles, plus another um few thousand uh meters of elevation bloody hell on one day. So I don't know if you've ever done that, but you will part I walked it a few years ago over crooks peak.
Speaker 2:So you come from western, you go yeah I did it, wells, I did it wells to western. Yeah, yeah, it's like 20 miles yeah it's equivalent shit.
Speaker 1:So how, like? First of all, what made you want to do it? And yeah, start from there.
Speaker 2:So, again, when I started really really wanting to find out why I was like I was or have been in the past because this is years and years of being the same, years and years of having the fog above your head it's not days, it's not weeks, it's not just because of the drink, it's not just because of this and then I really wanted to bottom it out. I mean, I'd had enough of it. I was in a place where I would fight it and define what it was and the the fact that my mind is active and it's always thinking you know what next? Where am I going to go next, having something like that as a focus point a year in advance, I booked it up. So I booked it in January last year, knowing that it's something that I do enjoy doing anyway, Not an ultramarathon, but I do enjoy doing anyway.
Speaker 2:Not an ultramarathon, but I do enjoy running.
Speaker 2:You know two, three miles um, you know, twice a week, maybe, um, that that is a thing that I I do enjoy um, but this was going to be a, a challenge beyond all challenges, um for me, and it ended up being that um. So, yeah, I, I I believe I needed focus um where I had something, not only to have a goal to get to um, but also to try to keep a level of fitness um going beyond what I've had before, because I had a recent, you know, obviously I've with um. Since I've been, since I've moved back here, time has not been an issue. I mean, so I've had a lot more time on my hands. And because I've had more time on my hands, you, I needed to rethink what. What I was going to do without time, and something I enjoy is is running um, and and also I wanted to challenge myself um to see if I could um do it. Um, I wanted to sing a song and learn the guitar as well, but I'm quite, quite caught up, yeah we can focus on that next.
Speaker 2:I've got a guitar, though yeah so I just think I want, I need at that point, when I booked it, I just wanted focus. But but actually, the, the, that the, the meaning of me booking originally changed as as it went on. So the first two months january and february booked in january last year, I, I, I thought, right, I'm just gonna be an athlete, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm booking this to win it. Um, that's how I had it in my head and I just literally just went from from being a two, three mile runner twice a week, um, slow, slowish pace, to thinking I'm going to win an ultramarathon within a few days. And I was as well and, um, so I went january, february, and just like, right, I'm just gonna all or nothing sort of thing, just go all in and I've done really well. Actually, I, I did, I think I got through january, okay.
Speaker 2:Um, february I started to struggle and then I thought, oh, look at this. Oh, that that isn't me either. So that way of life where you are just completely dedicated to, um, one thing, it's just not me. Do you know what I mean? I want to live, I want to live a life that I want to live, do I mean? I don't want to again I I felt myself gravitating to a life that someone else might want me to be in, and or a life that I thought that someone else might like. If I done that, do you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean yeah, it wasn't me, so I ended up going um. I can do this in my own way.
Speaker 1:I can do.
Speaker 2:I can do this how I want to do it. I can be. You know I can be, um, I can, I can still. I mean I've never really dieted but I have now supplemented. So I do lots of supplementing, which is a massive thing, which is a massive game changer for me, because it actually has. It has, I believe, that it's had a real good impact on gut health and again, with ADHD and dyslexia and stuff like that and I'm sure everyone has, but I don't know but definitely for me because I've, I've worked out that supplementing in the stuff that I was deficient in or or at the low end of the scale, and getting my gut health right, all has another part of that symbiotic circle that I was talking about the minds, you know, the healthy body and, uh, the healthy thinking and stuff yeah and fitness, and so yeah that.
Speaker 2:That that was. You know. That was the main cause of what people aren't sure. I completely forgot where I was going now but we were talking about why.
Speaker 1:So it was your. It was. It was just to give you focus and initially you thought you were going to win, but actually you decided you were going to do it in your way. So tell us what it was actually like when you got there and you were doing it.
Speaker 2:So when I got off the plane, we had a couple of days of relaxation before we got on the bus to go out there, and then we met at what we called a race hotel. I wasn't staying at the race hotel, but there was a designated race hotel and it had. The other runners were staying there.
Speaker 2:Now all these other runners are ultra runners, so they all do it. Even some of them do it for a living. Some of them some of them, um, are amateurs, but they've done it all their lives and not one person has never done one that was there, apart from me and my and and and another guy that was doing it, um, who got, who ended up getting married. So, um, you know we were completely out of our depth, if you know what I mean. But the day of the race, which was early in the morning, probably half past five, when we all queuing up or standing at the race line to do it, I had absolutely no idea at that stage what was in front of me, but I I knew what I'd gone through the year of knowing that I was going to stand at that start line.
Speaker 1:Um already completed the task because I was there yeah, because that was one of the things that we coached on, wasn't it? It wasn't finishing the race. Your, your goal, when we were coaching, was to get up to that start line knowing you had done as much as you could to get you to that point, so as long as you were there, you were already a winner exactly getting there, understanding that I could you know and I so at that stage I had a rough guess that I could do two days, um, because I'd done the practicing across the west mended way and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Um, although I've only done um 16 miles, I, I, I was always still able to wake up the next day and feel relatively able to carry on. So I was pretty confident in two days. But then of course it's five days, so I had no clue what's going to happen after that. But yeah, so the first day was, I think, 27 miles the first day, and it was something like three thousand foot of elevation on that one. Um, but it was brutal, it was. It was. It was brutal because you know, only ever done 16 miles before. But then doing the doing that distance when you get to a I mean, I don't know if you've ever done half marathons or anything like that, I've done the cage to 5K.
Speaker 1:Does that count?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does, I think the thing is, though, it's really funny because the half marathon I've got some I don't know if you can see in there.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the medals.
Speaker 2:And you've got your finished Nevada T t-shirt oh, yeah, and this, yeah, yeah, just to prove, but the, the, the um half marathons. Because you, when you, when you do a lot of running, you do each. You try to get each mile um consistent. And then um, and you, but you run as quick as you can for each mile. That you know, sorry, you run as run as quick as you can for each mile that you. Also, you run as quick as you know you can for each mile to keep each mile consistent until the end. You do 13 miles and yet after the 13 miles you're dead. You, you literally just have got nothing left in you and you're gone, um, and that's the same as that's.
Speaker 2:The training is different, but it's a similar mindset for marathon. So you're trying to keep that consistency all the way up through the levels. You might be running a slower pace, but your consistency stays the same until you know you can finish. But at the end you know you're there, you've got nothing left in you. Whereas an ultramarathon, you're not concentrating on speed, you're not concentrating on each mile, you're just concentrating on um finishing.
Speaker 2:Now the athletes may, may well, be um, thinking completely different, but I wouldn't know what they're thinking because they're just super fit guys, um, but for me it was just about making sure I could get. I could get to the end, and there's six time zones between each race. You've got to get to the next, you've got to get to a time zone before a certain time and you need to have left that time zone before a certain time and if you do that, you're allowed to carry on. And the minute you miss one so there's six on each day and if you miss one, you're out. There's no excuses if you got lost, if you fell over and hurt yourself, if you you're you're right now they would. They were quite good here where they would allow you to carry on, but as a non-competitive runner, so you wouldn't get the t-shirt, um, and you wouldn't be on the world um ultra runners rankings either which you now are very low down on that ranking doesn't matter, you're on it I'm on it.
Speaker 2:Um, so yeah, once you get to the first time zone, you can fill up with water and stuff, like as long as you've got time available yeah and then you go off to the next one.
Speaker 2:So time management's everything. On that one, especially if you're like me, that was in the mindset, just to complete it. So you knew that, you knew that you had a time zone between there and there. You didn't know the way, um. So you've never done that distance before. You have got gps tracking on your watch and you have got um and the track is marked out every so often, so it is unlikely for you to get lost. But if you did, you you know you're not gonna, you're not gonna make that time back up, um. So that was always on on your mind. Um. The train, um. You know how sometimes you, there was, no, there was.
Speaker 2:The only bit of road that was there was when I was recording messages and stuff like that, because that was the only time I could get my camera out and actually hold it still when I was running. But the it was, you know you, it was brutal. You're, you're talking you I don't know if you've ever gone to a stony beach and stuff like that and you try you know it's a bit of a hill and you try running up it. It's like that constantly. It's that sort of it was just really, really difficult and all of the muscles that you're used to using was aching.
Speaker 2:I actually went over on my ankle and this was on the third day. That was a 38 mile one and I went right over my ankle and twisted it and luckily I, I I had a bit of a panic, thought I'm out, but, um, luckily I managed to sort of walk it off and after that, because each time station you've got um, got doctor, um there and and a time keeper, so in every one so that you know they're able to assess whether you're okay to carry on, so um to to support you if you need to with straps and stuff like that, so and give you tablets to to take away the pain. Um, but the I went, I, I generally went through every, every single emotion. I went through every single so I can only.
Speaker 2:I can only say this based on my experience of my life previous. Yeah, so I've gone through all of my emotions that I've been through previous. I've gone through every pain barrier that I've been through previous. Um, and you know, and, and I was expecting it, so it wasn't a shock to me when it come, I was waiting for it to happen. Um, the only hiccup I had was when I actually went over my ankle and that if, if that had broken or fractured or whatever, then that that that may have taken me out of it, but I was now. I was at no stage was I ever going to give up. Through the pain I was going through all the emotions I was going through. I embraced all of it because I knew it's coming and I was waiting for it, right, and when it did come, it was like you're here, now this yeah you're staying with me, let's do it together.
Speaker 2:Sort of thing do you want me? And accepted it and put one foot in front of the other and just kept going and that's a really powerful thought, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I'm not stopping. I'm not stopping. So what? What do you think? Because we were talking about this yesterday when we were catching up, weren't we and you? What do you think? Is the was was the thing that most enabled you to do the race and complete it in the way that you did, most enabled?
Speaker 2:you to do the race and complete it in the way that you did um so so, without doubt, the the easiest answer is this so for those of you that are listening and not on youtube ants pointing to his head.
Speaker 2:So is is is the mind. Um, without that, it was the. You know, my body gave up long before my, my mind did and, actual fact, my mind didn't give up. It's honest. It would only been in a, it would only have been a, um, you know, an injury that would, that would have taken me out, or the doctors have said you can't carry on because you're not fit enough, if you know what I mean. But, yeah, the mind, my mind, was able to control the emotions that I was going through. You know, don't get me wrong, it was, it was as powerful as it has ever been. I, I, I was laughing, I was crying, I was, um, singing, I was.
Speaker 2:I had to put music on a couple times, um, I had to put bad music on a couple times to try to avoid stuff. You know what I mean. I had to go through all sorts of different plans and, um, or different approaches with it, but one thing that I stuck I stuck, true is I had belief in myself. I was never going to give up and even even on the last day, when my ankle was swollen up about that big um, because I was in did I mention this to you yesterday? But I was. I had to be in a wheelchair for three days when I finished and my ankle literally swollen upled and I was so big I went so far over on it, but the there was nothing. There was nothing that was going to stop me. But that that wasn't again. That was not with arrogance, like just going I'm going to do this, no matter what do you mean. It wasn't, it wasn't like that for me. It was just I knew I could do it. I knew I could do it and I knew. I ran that race 20 times in my head. You know what I mean. I'd, I'd, I'd been on the plane before and I understood the you know and stuff like that. I, I was, I was elated when I was at the start line going. I've already succeeded.
Speaker 2:Um, no matter what happens here, and and you know, you know, you know you're doing it for an amazing cause, um, for the heads up charity, which is mental health charity. It's amazing, you know they, they are just what they do is is perfect in, in where I've come from and where I am now, and I get it. I get why they do it. Um, yeah, and then sometimes you're at the top of a hill or mountain, should I say, really breathe as well, because the you know it really, it really you can feel it, you do. You do notice a massive difference, um, with how you can breathe and that, and you're, you know, you're running and you're trying to breathe and anything cool. This isn't, this isn't normal. Do you know what I mean? But you.
Speaker 2:But then the sun comes out and it starts shining on the back and then it it sort of puts this ray of uh, sunshine across miles and miles and miles that you can see and you know you're pretty much on your own. I mean, there's, there's, you know there's some people probably behind you, not many, um, lots of people in front of you. They're not coming back, but you're just there on your own, just going. This puts everything to me in perspective. This is what I was hoping for during this moment, and you just take a moment and just look at it and go.
Speaker 2:It's so beautiful to be able to stand there and go. I feel free. So, not only you, not only you, not only am I looking at the view, I'm also knowing that I am just happy being exactly where I am now, even though my legs, my arms, my head, my neck, my back because you've got to carry quite heavy safety gear as well, um, and stuff like that that they make and carry, and obviously all the water you carry for rehydration, and I just feel happy, just a happy person, and that, and, but without forced. It's not forced anymore, it's not going. Oh, I'm happy. This is lovely, it's a lovely view. I just sit down there going. Do you know what I can? I can stand here on my own all day, or if anyone wanted to wander up and have a chat with me, I'd chat with them as well, do you know?
Speaker 1:what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, conversation about anything doesn't matter to me. And then you realise well, we're on a time clock.
Speaker 1:Better get going Better get going.
Speaker 2:But you have that moment, joanne, that moment of just complete understanding what my life's about and what I think it's all about, and understanding that I do not need to put myself through the burdens and the pains and bring the fog back to where it was before, and I have a choice yes, and that choice, I choose to to see the mountains.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what was interesting as well, you're also telling me yesterday how you noticed how negative some of the other contenders could be and then how much more of a struggle that must be making it for them yeah, I was quite, was quite surprised actually, cause I mean, these are people that do it regular, so he's he's on, he's on me's that have just gone on going to give it a go.
Speaker 2:Um, they're they, they're actual ultra runners and you're running alongside them. Um, you don't, you know, it's such a long journey that you, sometimes you're running with them for a few miles. Know, sometimes it could be six miles, you know, I mean, um, but, but when you are and you're low and you're running at a low rate anyway, because the train is just so difficult to run on, um, you get, you, can you do get to have a conversation, and I was so surprised how these, these people have done it before and they, they understand it was so quite negative on themselves. Yeah, whereas I, I was you, almost what I always wanted to give, you know, give them a cuddle and go, all right, I mean, he's, yeah, strange, because they must have put ourselves through, like, not just the pain but also yeah physical pain, but they're putting themselves through.
Speaker 2:You know the fog cloud as well yeah try to to achieve something and um, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking them at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're still running an ultra. It's still incredible what they're doing, but it's just surprised me.
Speaker 2:It surprised me that they I was going, oh, look at this. No, that was again. I think that was a part of my, that was a part of my drive to want to continue and to achieve. Whereas I was looking at the you know, the Red Rock Maintains, I was looking at the you know the. You know, up in the Maintains, I was looking at all the, the, the beautiful scenery that you had in front of you, and I was just taking it in. I was going, wow, this is. I've never seen this before yeah not likely to see it again.
Speaker 2:Um, the. It really is a special moment for me because of my journey and where I was, where I am now in my life. So it was the. The dots just started to connect. And then you're seeing people that have done, and you know, tens, sorry, of ultra marathons before and they're just going it's rubbish. I can't do this, no more. My blisters, my blisters are everywhere and you know, and all that I'm thinking quickly they're giving themselves a hard time. It's only day two or three. Yeah, um, you know they were. They're all lovely people, to be honest, but you just felt that. That, you know, just to pick up on what you said, that extra negativity that you felt that they were giving their selves was, uh, was I mean, maybe I I don't know, you'll correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe some people might deal with that in a in an anger way and then be able to push them through barriers, but for me, I think, and like I, it does.
Speaker 1:I do find it very ironic that I've coached you on your mindset on an ultra marathon when, literally, I do not run anyone. It is very entertaining to me, but when we're, when we're doing any form of exercise or self-development, it doesn't matter what it is how we talk to ourselves matters, and that tone of voice to ourselves really matters. And you were physically exhausted. Um, you were able to enjoy the experience because that voice was encouraging. You were talking to yourself like, not like you said, not in an arrogance, not in a punishment. You had nothing to prove. It was just you can do this. And yeah, you can do this.
Speaker 1:I believe in you, you can do it and I think that makes such a huge difference yeah, I think I was pinpoint well, no.
Speaker 2:I know I was pinpointing the good parts of it and I was ignoring the the bad parts of it. How is you know, the four years ago I would have been doing that one, pinpointing all the bad parts of it and ignoring the good points of it. So it's just a flip. I've flip, reversed it where, um and that and again, I do that quite regular not just the running side of it there's, there's all sorts of things that I do, um, but not not to try to trick myself, because I'm quite honest with with it as well, but just to to embrace it in a way to get the best out of it. Um, I mean, these guys that are runners were just, yeah, they were they, they just seemed like they weren't enjoying it. Do you know, and I thought you know, and I can imagine a lot of people thinking, oh yeah, no, I wouldn't enjoy it either, but it, for me it was, it was very rewarding yeah the pain that you go through, the.
Speaker 1:You know the, the physical pain that you feel yeah, and I think what also you said about earlier visualizing, like you would already. I mean, this is one of the things that we spoke about quite a lot in our coaching, wasn't it? And and I do this a lot with my clients is the visualizing ahead of time, like it's called, a, like a mental rehearsal, so you know, going through those bits when it's going to be challenging, and how are you going to talk to yourself and how are you going to keep going and imagine yourself, keeping going, and imagine yourself crossing the line and and envision sports professionals do this all the time yeah, well, I I'm sure you have told me that before.
Speaker 2:I didn't know sports professionals do it, but it makes complete sense to me because I had to do it myself. Um, I I had even had a little clade not here but here with Nikki's face in it, and go. Well, now's the time you need to use a bit of your uh you know your skill set to be able to overcome this nine mile uphill. Uh, and I went yeah, that's probably about right.
Speaker 2:But, um, you know it's. But again, that that I don't. I don't feel embarrassed by that. Do you know what I mean? I'm, I, that's me. You know that these sort of things are happening in my mind. Yeah, uh, you know it's, I embrace it.
Speaker 1:I mean, we all have yeah, we all have that like I hear my coach's voice all the time, like if I'm going, oh, I'll be like. Then I hear my coach, jamie burman. She's incredible, and I just hear her going well, you know what about. And I'm like, all right, you know off, I go again and and this is. This is the joy of of being on this journey of self-development and learning how to manage your mind and your emotions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm fascinated how far I can go with it, to be honest, because I know I've just literally just started believing in it, believing in myself firstly, to be honest.
Speaker 1:The minute.
Speaker 2:I believed in myself and believed actually I'm not that bad a person. I certainly don't want to hurt anyone else. I can be myself, and if anyone doesn't like that, that's their problem, not mine. Um, there's all these little things that I I am doing for me, um, and it then opens doors for me to think of the net, like what's next, if you know what I mean. Like on that I'm not. I would never say I've practiced anything but being able to give myself time to understand that I do not need to give myself burden in the way that I was yeah and the way that I was for so many years as well, is just a revelation to my future.
Speaker 2:Me can't predict the future, but what I know is I'm not going to be in that position again, yeah, where I am going through months and months and months, years and years and years, um, feeling that way, for for no reason, because it's me that was the problem, not the alcohol, not the people around me, not what people said to me, not the fact that I was nervous of getting up speaking, not the fact that I couldn't spell, not the fact that I, um was worried that if someone we had a spelling test or a maths test, that I just completely embarrassed myself. That was never the problem. That was never the problem. The only problem was is me thinking that it was a problem and believing um, and not believing in myself, not believing that, no, I do add value to other things, and the other things that I I I add value to. I don't care if I'm as good as anyone else.
Speaker 2:I, I'm as good as I need to be yeah, and then when I, when I, when I, literally when I started thinking like that, everything opens up for me. All the, all the other little avenues I want to investigate. Play the guitar, you know, or whatever children's books, right? Investing stuff children's books Invest in stuff.
Speaker 1:We're not going to go to those two things today because we're running out of time, but yeah, look at what else your brain has come up with over the last year. It's been incredible. Yeah, keep looking at Ant Hillman people on Instagram because you're going to see good things.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:It's amazing. So you were just saying there, you can't predict the future. I read something and I'm I'm trying to rack my brain as to what the name of the book was or is. I'm reading, I'm in the middle, I can't remember what it's called.
Speaker 1:If I remember, I'll put it in the show notes, but it's all about, um, quantum physics and the universe and manifestation, so creating what you want out of life, and basically what he was saying. And it all comes down to the same things your thoughts create your feelings. Your mind comes first, just like you were saying, you need to support your body, physical health supplements um, not so much alcohol, water, all of that kind of thing, but ultimately it's your mind that's most important. But he did actually say and it did kind of stop me in my tracks when I read it is you can predict the future, because what you are thinking and what you are feeling and how you are behaving today is going to create your future. So, looking at what you're thinking and how you're feeling and how you're behaving, you will see what your future is going to be.
Speaker 2:And if you keep thinking, feeling and behaving like you've always done, that is the future that you're going to keep creating yeah you have fundamentally changed that for yourself yeah, well, um, what you just said, that I can revert back to me always thinking negative and having a negative future. So the yin and yang effect, the good and bad effect, whatever beliefs that you go through, if that's possible, thinking negative is going to give me a negative future, which absolutely happened Thinking positive. Why can't it give you a positive future?
Speaker 1:It's the only way it will future. Yeah, it's the only way it will be.
Speaker 2:It's the problem. No, I I accept that yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:So is there anything else that we haven't covered that you think is relevant?
Speaker 2:how much time have we got left?
Speaker 1:I know, because I do think we could probably go on for hours talking about this.
Speaker 2:You know, the only thing I would like to say I thank you for your time and your ability to be able to communicate in a way that I understood, because that's very difficult to do, um, for everyone, and you probably have to change your tactics with certain people. So, um, yeah, to be able to understand someone in the way that they're meaning it is, is a, is a, is a good, a good trait, and that's what I always try to do, going forward now as well to not just say the words, but to try to make sure the person that's listening actually gets or understands it, and if not, you know, we might need to change our tact a little bit. So, thanks for that, um, for being able to help me in that, in in this respect, and I am. The other thing I would say is I'm really looking forward to what's next. Do you know what I mean, especially with a positive outcome or outlook or whatever?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, me too. I can't wait, so I I am so grateful to be part of your journey and it's been so amazing to watch you inspire me so much. And thank you for trusting your time in me, because it is a trust, isn't?
Speaker 2:it.
Speaker 1:You know we've talked about lots of different things and, yes, I really I appreciate you so much. So, on that that note, if someone was listening to this and they were like, oh, maybe nikki could help me, what do you think you would say to that person?
Speaker 2:the thing is do, do you want, would you like, to stay as as you are, or are you actually looking for someone to um, give you advice or help or a different perspective? Um, or it might be the same perspective but different balance on on the same perspective and and and. If you need to understand that, then go for it, because it nothing, nothing in life, no education that we learn will be wrong. So it's it's impossible to be wrong because you'll be. You will be able to balance against that wrong and make it into your own opinion.
Speaker 2:Um, but there's someone here that, quite frankly, um, has got the gift to be able to talk in a way that you would understand, um, she's done it with someone that's dyslexic, adhd, with an alcoholic or potentially, um, I had an alcohol problem. Should we say um, uh and um, I've completely changed, I'm a completely different. I'm completely, um, different, and it's not just one thing. It's not just one thing, but it opens the doors to let you think, to have control back, to understand yourself, to love yourself, and then, when you do that, you can love everything else around you.
Speaker 1:I love it so good. Thank you so so much for talking to us and thank you, everybody for listening. We could probably carry on talking for hours, but we are gonna stop it there, so I will put your link to heads up. You're the charity and your instagram so people can connect with you on instagram and follow the future and um. Thank you so much for being here yeah, thank you and we'll see you soon I'll see. Well, I'll see you in a couple of weeks because we're coaching. Bye bye.