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The Working Mums Podcast
Teaching working mums mind & emotional management tools so they enjoy their kids, their job & themselves again without all the shitty mum guilt.
The Working Mums Podcast
Ep #60 - Your Child's Brain Is Not Broken: A Fresh Perspective on Dyslexia
What if your child's brilliance is being masked by a reading and writing system that simply doesn't match how their mind works? In this eye-opening conversation with dyslexia expert Lou Barnes, we explore the hidden world of dyslexic thinking and the extraordinary capabilities these unique brains possess.
Lou shares how after 20 years as a primary school teacher, she left the profession determined to find better solutions for the bright, articulate children who struggled with reading and writing despite their obvious intelligence. What she discovered challenges everything we think we know about learning differences.
Have you noticed your child can read perfectly one day but not recognize the same words the next? Or perhaps they can create incredible designs but panic when faced with a page of text? Lou explains her concept of the "storage cupboard" – the neural pathway that allows most people to retain visual information about words but is often missing in dyslexic minds. This explains why someone might read a passage beautifully but have no recollection of its content moments later.
Most fascinating is Lou's innovative approach to creating new neural pathways. Rather than drilling letters and sounds, she begins by having children visualize imaginary creatures, helping their brains learn to create stable, clear mental images before applying these same skills to text. The results have been transformative for countless children and adults.
As a working mother who personally resonates with many dyslexic traits, I found our conversation both validating and hopeful. Lou emphasizes that neurodiversity isn't something to "cure" – these differently-wired brains are essential to human progress and innovation. Her mission isn't to change how dyslexic minds work but to give them tools to navigate a world built around reading and writing.
Ready to understand your child's unique learning style better? Visit Lou's website at unlock-learning.co.uk where you'll find resources, blogs, and courses designed to help parents support their children's learning journey.
Here are the links to learn more about Lou:
Website – www.unlock-learning.co.uk
Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/lou-barnesunlocklearning/
You are also welcome to send Lou an email too: louise@unlock-learning.co.uk
You can also watch this episode on YouTube with Captions - https://www.youtube.com/@TheWorkingMumsLifeCoach
If you'd like to have a chat about how I can help you further, please don't hesitate to click here & book a time with me, I'd love to meet you.
You can also follow me on IG @NickyBevan_LifeCoach
Welcome, welcome everybody to this week's podcast, and I am delighted to have a guest with me today, lou Barnes, who is a dyslexia expert. I'm going to let Lou introduce herself actually in just a second, but I've asked her to come on because we met in a, in a like a net, like a networking group, really, didn't we? And I just love what Lou does for her clients. So, lou, do you want to tell us who you are? I feel like I want to go into Cilla Black. Tell us a little bit who you are, where you come from.
Speaker 2:Lovely, why not? Hi, nikki, thanks for having me. It's lovely to be here. Okay, let me tell you who I am. I am, as you said, lou Barnes, and I support parents and children who have dyslexia and other special needs, because often I find my students with dyslexia also have ADHD or PDA or something else, and that's absolutely fine If I give you the really quickest version I can.
Speaker 2:I used to be a primary school teacher. I loved it, but I left after around 20 years because I realised every year there were amazingly clever, bright, articulate, creative children in my class who just couldn't get to grips with reading and writing and it wasn't good enough and I felt that what we were doing, all the extra help we were giving them, just wasn't having the impact they deserved. So, fast forward, I left teaching in a fit of madness, probably determined to find a new solution. I have a solution which is an outside the box way of dealing with dyslexia, and I've been working with parents and their children for the last 16 years with very good results, I have to say so. Yeah, my mission now is to get that into schools and share it with people so more children can get the help they need.
Speaker 1:I love that so much and I often see your posts on LinkedIn because we obviously follow each other and what I find incredible is how unaware I think sometimes we can be about the symptoms of dyslexia. And you said PDA. What does that mean?
Speaker 2:PDA is pathological demand avoidance. I'm finding more and more that the children I work with are struggling with high anxiety and things like that. You know, we could spend another goodness knows how long won't go there now, yeah, when a child doesn't like to be asked to do anything and they can have meltdown. So, oh, interesting, as simple as brushing their teeth or picking something up and often at school and what it is is their nervous system is so very dysregulated that they are terrified and it is totally uncomfortable for them to fail. To avoid failure, they get into the habit of refusing to do what they're asked because then they can't fail. So it causes really bad behavior or rude children. But actually there is, as always, a very good reason why they are behaving as they do. That's fascinating, a lot of that, especially when they haven't been able to read all right because of the dyslexia and it has caused such pain for them.
Speaker 1:So it's quite wow, that's interesting, and I never script my podcast, but I the only question that I had for you was what of the? What are the common symptoms of dyslexia? And then I'd also like to hear about the uncommon symptoms, because I think a lot of parents will be listening. This is a podcast for working mums, and so, as a mum, how do we, how can what symptoms like common or uncommon symptoms are we looking for in their children, so that we can either support them ourselves or come to you for that?
Speaker 2:extra support? I love that question. Thank you so much for that, because a lot of what I do is trying to raise awareness, because there are so many different ways dyslexia can present. So if we answer your first part to start with. So the most common symptoms are children struggling to remember words that you think they've learned when they're very young. Okay, to start with it can be they seem to know something and then they don't, or they'll read it one minute and then on the next page they can't read it. Um, and we can talk about why that happens later, if you like, but that's one thing like, whereas you'd expect to learn it and hold on to it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:Also, not wanting to read, but not just because they're not big readers, because not everybody needs to love reading. You know it's not for everyone, thankfully. We're all different. But if you find they are doing anything and everything to get out of reading, or they're becoming upset when they're when they're asked to read, or it becomes a battle, or they're absolutely exhausted at the idea of it, that's really common. Ok is where often children can get branded as naughty or lazy. But they're not. It's not. They won't do it, they can't do it. Other things is not being at when they write things down, maybe missing out words or sort of it doesn't make sense what they're writing, um. And I think maybe the last one is that they're fine at school when they're doing the very basic learning, when there's only one sound to each letter, but then when they get onto combinations of letters and different ways to make vowels, yeah, that makes sense. Stop me if I need to fill in information yeah.
Speaker 2:I will. Yeah, I will. I. I can sort of talk jargon and it may not make sense to everyone else, um, that they get very confused when there's more than one letter going together or more than one way to make a sound or to read a combination of letters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, interesting so how can we so, I suppose, as a, as a parent, looking out for those more common, more common symptoms, and is there, is there a spectrum for people?
Speaker 2:definitely, yeah, definitely a spectrum. That's another really good question. So, yeah, they're the common ones, yeah, but you get one child who literally cannot put together a three-letter word, and then you might get another child who can, who appears and then we'll go into the uncommon ones in a sec, if you like who appears to be able to read but then starts but then can't spell, or is to be able to read but then can't answer any questions about what they've just read. So there's a and some children can read really well but can't spell, some could spell but they struggle with reading. So there's massive differences between.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know it's interesting, you won't know this, but one of the reasons I think and I might get emotional that I'm so fascinated about what you do is because, without question, I am undiagnosed dyslexia, and it's not the, it's not the. I don't resonate with the words jumbling around or letters jumbling around. That was never the case. Resonate with the words jumbling around or letters jumbling around, that was never the case. But even now, as an adult, I could read a really engaging passage and then someone say to me what was that about then? And I could not tell you. So this is where, and looking out for the, remembering something one minute and not the next, I could spell reading's not so much a problem. But when you were saying about spelling, I could spell a word right one minute and not the next. I could spell readings not so much a problem. But when you were saying about spelling, I could spell a word right one minute and then a minute later I would not have a clue how to spell that name, that that word. So it's so fascinating hearing you talking through the, the, the symptoms. I'm like. It just kind of says to me.
Speaker 1:Of course that makes sense in my brain because that's what I've always experienced. Only like we're talking like 20, 30 years ago I was at school and you know, it just wasn't. We weren't aware of all these differences then and sometimes I'm quite glad about that because I wouldn't have wanted to have a label. But I also think I always felt stupid at school because I could never prove my intelligence. I couldn't prove like I couldn't take.
Speaker 1:Even now as an adult I can't take an exam and flourish in an exam if it's written. It's just not how my brain has ever worked. Verbally I would excel and get top grades and have done as an adult when it's been both like but written my brain just shuts right down. So this is also why I just find the topic so fascinating is because it resonates with me and actually, when you were talking there about not wanting to read, I can see that in my youngest son as well. He used to get really antsy, but I would never have said that he was dyslexic because he's so very switched on in other areas and he seems to be doing quite well. But I think the avoidance and he might be avoiding because he finds that writing difficult, so fascinating.
Speaker 2:So tell us some of the uncommon symptoms then okay, and it's great that you've shared that and relate to it. I've I come across a lot of adults who are in a similar position and I'm glad now there's more conversation around it. Yeah, that you can share that, thank you, thank you. So the uncommon ones, one of the ones that I it's common to me but it's not recognized. It's just exactly what you said, where you could read a passage, probably out loud, beautifully, so everyone says, oh, they can read, yeah, but there's absolute. I call it storage cupboard. So what I believe is happening in this case is you're reading it, so it's not moving, blowing, jumping. Happening in this case is you're reading it, so you're, it's not moving, blurring, jumping. That's what I call the distortion issue, also called visual stress. But when it goes in your very brilliant brain and it is brilliant because you've got all these other skills and my students are the most creative, articulate, amazing humans it's making this wonderful route around the brain, but the problem is it's not taking the route that goes to the storage cupboard. There's nowhere to put the information. Interesting the thing is that's great. But then how do you know what you've read if the information is not stored anywhere? And also for spelling, because to spell you need to see what the word looks like. You need to, if you like, take a photograph, make a mental image of it and then you need to store it in that storage cupboard so that when you need to write it again, you go oh, there it is from the storage cupboard.
Speaker 2:I've got that Well, if you don't have a cupboard to put it in. It's a bit like if you go shop. Imagine going shopping. You put all that time and energy into making the list and going around the supermarket and paying for it. You come home and there's no cupboards and there's no fridge and there's nowhere no freezer in your kitchen, so you have to throw the stuff away because there's nowhere to keep it. And then later you go to make dinner you've got nothing. Oh, gotta go to the shops again, start again. It's a bit like that.
Speaker 1:So that is so interesting. And then what I find is that people if I, if I say how do you spell that word which is a and I find this with text, predictive text can't work out what I want to say. So then I have to try and pick another word, but it's not the word that I want to say, because so that happens to me all the time. But then I'll say to someone like if, if I'm feeling particularly confident, how do you spell? And it will be quite a like everyday word, and they will try and sound it out to me. I'm like no, no, I need to know the letters, because I can't. I don't know what, yeah, I don't know what word is associated with that sign, because it hadn't gone into my storage cupboard. So that's such a relief almost to hear, and I would imagine for parents if their children are struggling, it's like, oh, that makes so, so much sense and that's the point.
Speaker 2:You see, because, especially that so many of my students are, as I said, creative, intelligent, so articulate. I mean their are, as I said, creative, intelligent, so articulate. I mean their brains do things I can't even imagine. It's amazing for me to hear how they express themselves and what their brains can imagine. I've got one child I'm working with. He was seeing all the letters in 3D and then they were meditating. Now I'd love to be able to imagine saying in 3d and look all around it, my brain yeah, now, that's great for some things, it's not great for reading, writing. Yeah, they are amazing brains, so it's really hard to understand why they can't do a simple thing. But of course it's not simple if your brain is not using the neural pathway and I don't know if I've already said it, I think I did, but I don't can't remember um, reading, natural human behavior. So it's not like speaking, which is natural human behavior, reading and writing man-made constructs, they're not natural behavior we assume everyone's, but I'm doing this a lot, aren't?
Speaker 1:I it's good. I love it. Use your hands. The people listening in their car won't be able to see your hands.
Speaker 2:It's fine emotions with my hands for those who don't have the video they.
Speaker 2:Um, we all assume that everyone's using the same process and all our brains work in the same way. But if that brilliant, creative brain which thinks in a different way which is what makes it so amazing is using its own neural pathway, its own map of reading and writing, but that map hasn't got key elements like a storage cupboard, then of course it's going to be almost impossible for that person. So, yeah, it's amazing and fascinating how different our brains are. But parents, teachers, I certainly didn't realize. As a teacher, it's very hard for us to comprehend because we all assume everyone works the same way we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is exactly the same with my management. We all think that everyone's thinking the way we're thinking. We all think that people are having got the same values, the same expectations, the same you know, and and they don't, so that that that absolutely resonates with me. So how does it work then, if you've got a child so now I'm thinking of my son if you've got a child who is clearly incredible, like blue, will be able to create a 3D object out of paper I mean, it was a gun, which I would prefer him not to have particularly made that type of weapon, but anyway, he's a boy, so we're going with it.
Speaker 1:But he could make the trigger. He could make it was even all the moving parts, and he just did that out of out of just. He had a thought and he just knew what to do. So how, then, if our schooling is so very much written and reading based, how is a child like him going to be able to show his intelligence and explode in the best way possible without being held back by the writing and the reading?
Speaker 2:I wish I had a better answer than I'm going to give you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That this is the truth, unless they are the kind of child that can push through by working exceedingly hard without getting burnt out. Right, it's right. Really, really tough, because, as you said, every single element of the blooming curriculum, yeah, can you read and write about it? Yeah, and it's wrong and I wish it wasn't that way, but currently it is yeah, even the engineering and the design and technology they're like.
Speaker 2:No, you have to be able to write about it first and exactly, and it's insane because you know why can't we get children to mind, map their ideas or draw, or he could probably show brilliantly with diagrams how he was going to do it. Yeah, I'm hoping it's going to change, but at the moment there is such a huge bias I mean, we're still living in victorian times, really. Yeah, as education goes and when it comes to tests, I think now there's slightly more emphasis on coursework, but not on all examples, sadly it. My best advice to people is if you think there's a problem, get help as soon as possible, because much as it needs to change and the conversation around it is growing, thank goodness I don't change happening that quickly and I wish that wasn't my answer yeah, I know, I know, but but that's why we need to come to you, isn't't it?
Speaker 1:So, before we talk about what you actually do, tell us some of the other uncommon symptoms, if there are any.
Speaker 2:Looking like you can read, but not being able to remember a thing you've read. That's a really big one, because those children slip through the net. Yeah, they make that. It's working for them. Other uncommon symptoms Well, I don't know if it's's uncommon, but one that isn't always picked up is when they're just exhausted after school, totally exhausted or stressed, like struggling to have a conversation or communicate I know a lot of people would say well, that's social media.
Speaker 2:They all go and shut themselves in their bedrooms and whatever. I think it's one to watch for, because you know, going to school is hard enough for anybody. There's so much information we try and cram into brains in such a short amount of time, but for a child with dyslexia they are working 10, 30 times harder than anyone else, so they are wiped by the sun and that can show up. Um, yeah, I'm trying to think about the uncommon symptoms. It's so different.
Speaker 1:That's the thing yeah, and that that's the thing, because you know, parts of our brain are all exactly the same and then the other parts are just so vastly different. So that's you know. No, I think what what you said already is just really good. So, if a parent is noticing these symptoms in their child, what is it that you can do to help them, and how do you do that?
Speaker 2:So the way I work is different to other people, and I'm constantly evolving and learning from my amazing students, which keeps it really interesting. But there is a process I use that people have called magic. It's not magic. Our brains are magic because of neuroplasticity, or the brain's ability to learn new things. So the first thing I do and it doesn't matter if my child is six or I'm working with an adult who's 60, because I work with adults too, which is always good fun the first thing I do is find out what their brilliant brain is doing when it's faced with a page of text, but we don't look at words or letters to start with oh, okay the way I do that is I get them to imagine a creature.
Speaker 2:Now they get to choose the creature and it can be made up. It can be fancy, it could be real, it doesn't matter. And they I asked them a series of questions about this creature. So the question so I need to find out if it's still where it is, if there's one or more than one, if they can see it all clearly. They're the form and what size it is. Now the point of this is to read and write. We, we need to imagine because, as I said earlier, we need to have our own mental image of the word in order to store it right. So, to read and write, you need to be able to see letters and words still and clear and on their own, because some people see multiple of each letter or word and they need to be the right, right size, because some brains make the words too big and some make them too small so they can't be seen properly.
Speaker 2:Now, say, we're playing with a cat, the child's chosen, I don't know, it'd probably be a pink cat with purple stripes or something. I mean we have all kinds of things and to start with, I need to know where the cat is Because for some children, the writing, the letters, the words or just mental images if there's sometimes trauma involved their brain doesn't want to look at pictures at all. So their creature might be, could start off in the jungle, if that's where their imaginary cat comes from. But then as we try and bring it closer to them, they might. It might always be in another room or behind them or in a cupboard, and always hidden. And that tells me their brain isn't looking properly, it can't see the mental images. So we have to make it clear for them. So I have to. We play with a creature to make it safe, to make it comfortable. We use magic ideas and spells and whatever, whatever they like to do. So we have to have that creature in front of them that calms. Oh, I can look at my imaginary pictures in front of me. Brilliant, we have to keep it still. So we, we play with the imaginary cat, with the unicorn horn or whatever, until it's still, and we go through these questions and we manipulate their mental image until it's clear, still, stable and the right size and comfortable and safe to look at. Once we've done that, we've already created a new neural pathway in the brain because they can recall their creature, because they can imagine it again. So the storage cupboard's open too and that's all.
Speaker 2:Once we've done that and this, how long it takes varies. So some children, we can do that in an hour. Oh yeah, great. Oh, fab. Others might take me 11 or 12 30 minute sessions because every brain is different. But it doesn't matter, you know it can be done. Once that's done, it's really easy to do some bridging activities, to then use that same new idea the brain's got with letters and words, and then I put, put my teacher hat on and then I can teach them about the way letters correlate to sounds and we can teach them how to use the visual part of their brain to remember what they've read and strengthen that bit of the brain. That new pathway and everything else just sort of falls into place after that with the right and I teach them to their strength. So if I've got a very kinesthetic child, we'll dance and we'll act, and if it's a child who who's very creative, we might do more drawing or some love online games, especially my ADHD children. It's got to be fast quizzes with bonus rounds and timers, you know.
Speaker 1:So then we adapt it's amazing, and isn't it? It just I find it so incredible. Here's just more evidence at how so brilliant our brains are when we're very deliberate and conscious about how we use them and how we can retrain ourselves to be slightly different absolutely.
Speaker 2:Our brains are fascinating, incredible. I mean, I'm just beginning to learn about them, I feel yeah, yeah so amazing.
Speaker 1:So, um, we will put your all your information in the show notes, so if people want to start following you, connecting with you, have a chat with you, they can find you and do so. But is there anything that we haven't talked about yet, lou, that you feel is relevant?
Speaker 2:I think something that I again like to try and raise awareness of in your followers will probably already be very aware of this is the fact that dyslexia doesn't just affect children yeah, whole families, and actually as part of my work with assuming it's children, not adults with the children it's to make sure that I inform the parents what's happening and and and sort of be a support for them, because a lot of the parents that come to me are desperate and they're exhausted and they've tried so many different things and often they feel school is brushing them off, saying, oh no, they're fine, they'll be fine later, but as a parent, you know you're the expert on your child.
Speaker 2:So I do think it's really important for anybody working with children to listen to the parents and to be a team. You know I might be an expert in what I do, but I'm not the expert on your child. So we need to work as a team and listen together, and it's OK for parents to feel exhausted by it and lose patience and get frustrated sometimes, because you have a breaking point too.
Speaker 1:You know, I think, especially when you can see the brilliance in your child, like it if it doesn't quite make sense, because you can see how amazing and brilliant your creative and incredible your child is it, I think the frustration can be even more so sometimes.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it must be. And parents say, but when they're interested they can do it. Or they can read the labels on the Minecraft game. And I say, yeah, but they've correlated that action makes that shape. The word looks that shape they're not looking at inside the word. Because these brilliant, creative, creative, amazing kids, they will be the same, have these amazing strategies, yeah, take even more brain power and are even more clever, but just aren't the most efficient way to do it. Yeah, it must be very, very hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a lot of parents feel guilty and it's it's not, it's not your fault, honestly and and I do also believe this is going into the whole neurodiversity bit, which is not where my expertise lie at all but I did do a google search and dyslexia comes under the neurodiversity banner and a quarter I think at this point 25% of the population have a neurodivergent diagnosis, and I can't help but think that is by human design, like, if you think back in our caveman days, we needed visionaries, we needed creators, we needed like those people that wanted to go out and explore and come up with new inventions. Like that's how we evolved, because their brain was that way, and so I just think that we need brains like that, because otherwise we wouldn't move forward oh, I totally agree with you and I always say to my students your brain thinks differently, it's not wrong, it's, it's brilliant.
Speaker 2:It does things I can't even imagine and we need your brain. So I I always say I speak because I've been accused before of people saying to me oh, you say you can cure dyslexia using your nlp process. That's not possible. The truth is no, I can't cure dyslexia and I don't want to. My goodness. We need these brains. What I can do is make just the teeny tiny reading and writing bit easier.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It won't change anything else. We definitely don't want to do that. And you're right, evolution means we need lots of different brains, don't we?
Speaker 1:100%, yes, 100%, yeah. Exactly, it's a huge celebration, I agree. So where is the best place for people to come and find you if they want to learn more from you, lou?
Speaker 2:The best place at the moment is my website, which is wwwunlock-learningcouk or LinkedIn, and you'll find me as Lou Barnes on LinkedIn, but you can do LinkedIn through the website. You can pretty much access everything on the website and I do have a blog people might find interesting, also linked to the website and also I've just opened up. Last week was Neurodiversity Week, so to celebrate that, we got a learning resource room where people can find videos and other brilliant I've done and some free resources, and that's all on the website too fantastic.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'll go and take a look, mostly for my, my learning about me and my brain right, and I do train people as well.
Speaker 2:I've got a few courses running, so there's unlocked learning foundations for anyone that wants to work with their child, or I'll train you to do what I do with your own child that's brilliant.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. I love that so much. Um. So we will put all those links um in the show notes, like I said, and it is interesting because I love, I love the little character drawing like you do cartoon posts sometimes, don't you, which I, which I just love. The blogs aren't for my like personally, aren't, because I'm like I see the words, I'm like, oh, that's a lot of words so the podcasts I've done about four or five podcasts and some of them were for, um, uh, sort of SEN, yeah, things.
Speaker 2:So they go into a lot more detail and explain things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I would for you yeah, I will definitely navigate to the videos rather than the words, but, um, but it's just, it's incredible that that's out there for people, isn't it? I just love it so much and I love, I love, love, love what you do. Thank you so so much for coming and speaking with me today. Um, like I said, we will put all of Lou's details in the notes below. So go and follow her on LinkedIn, go and check out her website, because I think you're incredible. So thank you very much for joining me today thank you so much.
Speaker 2:It's been lovely to talk to you good and listeners.
Speaker 1:I'll see you all next week.